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Author Topic: worship music outside of liturgy...  (Read 827 times) Average Rating: 0
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Seafra
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« on: January 02, 2012, 01:28:45 AM »

Hey guys! so as many of you know i was involved in the International House Of Prayer a charismatic protestant expression of 24/7 prayer and worship. While there i noticed that unlike many other circles there was a genuine passion for Christ and God in this place. That being said its very VERY emotionalistic. from this the music is extremely emotional. I am curious about how acceptable emotional christian music is within Orthodoxy. I would encourage you to listen to the songs as they are 98% of the time literal scripture but again fueled by intense emotion... a group of people who were in my internship recorded this song which i believe is a beautiful song.
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DFNA87D2_pUI&h=BAQHmUerq

also much of the music from the major worship teams can be heard here http://forerunnermediagroup.com/Publisher/Article.aspx?ID=1000038194

I would appreciate input and insight on how emotional music such as these fit in Orthodox life? I doubt it can be totally removed, but i am sure that there can not be an over emphasis either which is often found in charismatic circles.
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NicholasMyra
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« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2012, 02:40:50 AM »

Traditionally, there was a relationship between the liturgy and the festival. Popular music, like Christmas carols, for example, were used at the feast. The feast was a time of public merrymaking, dance (yes, dance) and joy that in some cases lasted several days. This survives in the Serbian slava and the festal gatherings in many other Orthodox cultures.


In non-Orthodox countries like America, going all-out or even gathering properly on feast days is not as prevalent, so the need to express through popular music styles is not yet adequately met in Orthodoxy there.

IMO, at least.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 02:42:01 AM by NicholasMyra » Logged

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Alveus Lacuna
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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2012, 02:59:45 AM »

I find the term "sentimental" to be more fitting than "emotional", as just about anything qualifies as an emotion. At least using this definition of sentimentality:

(of a work of literature, music, or art) Dealing with feelings of tenderness, sadness, or nostalgia in an exaggerated and self-indulgent way

Also, much of the deliverance seems to be geared toward what the caricature of a woman wants, and seems pretty strange at this point to me. Many of the lyrics in this genre are about two words away from Jesus kissing the nape of my neck, or running his strong fingers through my hair, or whispering sweet nothings into my ear and then passionately biting my earlobe. It's kind of like a romance novel, and while there is the whole bride/bridegroom imagery, I'm sure the writers of scripture would have found this kind of strange eroticism to be a sensual excess.

But I agree that we need a more creative output from Orthodoxy that is non-liturgical, but the only stuff I have encountered is just Evangelical music chrismated, which I can't usually stomach in most cases.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 03:01:57 AM by Alveus Lacuna » Logged
Seafra
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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2012, 03:02:24 AM »

haha the first one my friend was inspired while reading song of songs so that would be appropriate

for that matter IHOP is unofficially split in two halves... your either a nazarite or a shulamite. so those are two major aspects of the music found coming out of IHOP
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 03:04:20 AM by Seafra » Logged
NicholasMyra
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« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2012, 03:05:16 AM »

But I agree that we need a more creative output from Orthodoxy that is non-liturgical, but the only stuff I have encountered is just Evangelical music chrismated, which I can't usually stomach in most cases.
Too bad the "Americanization" of Orthodoxy in America did not occur during the height of blues.

Or maybe Johnny Cash could have done "He's in the Tollhouse Now":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLfYVFamso8

I'm right there with you regarding the Evo stuff. Especially the new emergent breed of evo music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoC1ec-lYps
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 03:11:20 AM by NicholasMyra » Logged

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NicholasMyra
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« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2012, 03:07:18 AM »

haha the first one my friend was inspired while reading song of songs so that would be appropriate

for that matter IHOP is unofficially split in two halves... your either a nazarite or a shulamite. so those are two major aspects of the music found coming out of IHOP
WTF, IHOP has "naazrites" and "shulamites" now? Tongue
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Seafra
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« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2012, 03:13:11 AM »

haha the first one my friend was inspired while reading song of songs so that would be appropriate

for that matter IHOP is unofficially split in two halves... your either a nazarite or a shulamite. so those are two major aspects of the music found coming out of IHOP
WTF, IHOP has "naazrites" and "shulamites" now? Tongue
lol somehow nazarites are focused on end times (i dont get the connection really) and shulamites are focused on song of songs... The leadership doesnt really appreciate the groups and believe there needs to be balance in all of the scripture but having most of your following under 25 yr old.. well they dont listen lol
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Alveus Lacuna
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« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2012, 11:49:40 AM »

I'm right there with you regarding the Evo stuff. Especially the new emergent breed of evo music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoC1ec-lYps

I wouldn't call that Emergent; that is mainstream Evangelical.

Squint those eyes a little tighter. It means you're more ernest and sincere! Or constipated...?

This is Emergent, just after the priestly benediction:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQfbaHaRnCs

It's a bit more eclectic. Old Time church organ praises with stoles! Where's the disco ball? I like those.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 11:53:25 AM by Alveus Lacuna » Logged
NicholasMyra
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« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2012, 03:49:07 PM »

I'm right there with you regarding the Evo stuff. Especially the new emergent breed of evo music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoC1ec-lYps

I wouldn't call that Emergent; that is mainstream Evangelical.

Squint those eyes a little tighter. It means you're more ernest and sincere! Or constipated...?

This is Emergent, just after the priestly benediction:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQfbaHaRnCs

It's a bit more eclectic. Old Time church organ praises with stoles! Where's the disco ball? I like those.
vomit worthy.
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Seafra
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« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2012, 03:51:57 PM »

haha soooo back to the question at hand... would songs of this nature have a place? or should they be avoided?
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2012, 04:05:23 PM »

It probably differs from person to person. I would say, though, that even if it is a problem, that that kind of thing is probably minor compared to other obstacles in life, such that if you have to focus on eliminating a problem, it'd probably not be the first choice. For example, if you're listening to that kind of music and think you maybe shouldn't, but are also routinely visiting strip clubs... well, I would think one of those is a higher priority than the other. There is also the issue of not being over-eager. Zeal needs to be a moderated zeal, such that you don't go overboard and crazy (like me) or burn out. It's a little cliched to say, but the life in Christ is a marathon, not a sprint.
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« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2012, 05:09:20 PM »

I listen to a good deal of Protestant music (the type of stuff you'd hear on KLove or Air1, and other stuff).  I can find more than a few songs that I really dislike because I think they are irreverent, exceptionally wrong, or just irritate me, and I do not listen to them.  However, while the "Jesus is my boyfriend" music that Alveus mentioned does exist, it is not nearly so prevalent as many members on this board like to pretend.

In fact, quite a bit of it is really not all that dissimilar to the liturgical music of the Church (well, the lyrics aren't, the melodies obviously are).  As well, there seems to be an increasing number of artists who are crafting songs based on the Psalms (that is, taking a psalm or two, or a passage or two of a Psalm and creating from it a new song, either utilizing said passage(s) of the Psalms for the whole song, the chorus, or using imagery from them in order to craft a completely new song).

Not all Protestant/Evangelical music is bad.  Much is good. 

P.S. One way you can use to determine if a song might be worth listening to, when you don't have much time, is to see whether or not it is a woman who performs it or a band of women who performs it.  For one reason or another, Protestant/Evangelical songs done by women seem to be about 4 times as likely to be ones that I hate.
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Seafra
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« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2012, 05:23:22 PM »

I listen to a good deal of Protestant music (the type of stuff you'd hear on KLove or Air1, and other stuff).  I can find more than a few songs that I really dislike because I think they are irreverent, exceptionally wrong, or just irritate me, and I do not listen to them.  However, while the "Jesus is my boyfriend" music that Alveus mentioned does exist, it is not nearly so prevalent as many members on this board like to pretend.

In fact, quite a bit of it is really not all that dissimilar to the liturgical music of the Church (well, the lyrics aren't, the melodies obviously are).  As well, there seems to be an increasing number of artists who are crafting songs based on the Psalms (that is, taking a psalm or two, or a passage or two of a Psalm and creating from it a new song, either utilizing said passage(s) of the Psalms for the whole song, the chorus, or using imagery from them in order to craft a completely new song).

Not all Protestant/Evangelical music is bad.  Much is good. 

P.S. One way you can use to determine if a song might be worth listening to, when you don't have much time, is to see whether or not it is a woman who performs it or a band of women who performs it.  For one reason or another, Protestant/Evangelical songs done by women seem to be about 4 times as likely to be ones that I hate.
haha last bit made me laugh. Well I can say ihop music is very much based on psalms, odd Solomon, and eschatological books (Isaiah, Daniel, rev. Etc) and usually very little alteration though maybe slightly misinterpreted. I know I like a few of the artists and am actually close friend with one of the major worship leaders add we were roommates. I was just curious about peoples takes on this style of worship in personal life...
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Alveus Lacuna
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« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2012, 11:23:07 PM »

vomit worthy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf79xW6RAh4
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