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Author Topic: New Calendarists vs Old Calendarists  (Read 3263 times) Average Rating: 0
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Victoria
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« on: December 23, 2011, 05:32:53 PM »

its my understangind that New Calendarists are simply using the different calendar that the Old Calendarists but yet OC are called hererics and schismatics and are not in communion with New Calendarist churches? Is this correct? If not, what is the correct issues and is the only calendar the only divide between the two or are there theological differences as well?
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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2011, 05:43:46 PM »

It's complicated and controversial...

Starting from 1920' some Churches adopted the revised-Julian calendar and some do not. After that a part of believers of the Churches that had adopted the revised-Julian calendar started to say that the revised-Julian calendar is wrong. They separated and created their own Churches. After some time they also started to criticise the ecumenism, some custom changings etc.

So there is a one communion of the Churches where some use the  revised-Julian calendar and some - the Julian one and there are some other smaller communions of churches which declare us (and each other) as schismatics and heretics.
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« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2011, 05:46:34 PM »

The main issue in question is that of ecumenism, of which the adoption of the New Calendar is merely a symptom in the eyes of the anti-ecumenism. It is regarded as an ecclesiological heresy, in which the Orthodox Church is not regarded as the only Church of Christ, but as one church among many (albeit with a greater portion of truth and grace).

While many New Calendarists share this opposition to the modern Orthodox involvement with the ecumenical movement, they do not consider it a cause for schism. The more extreme Old Calendarists believe the New Calendarists (and those in communion with them, most of whom are still on the Julian Calendar - e.g. Moscow) have left the Orthodox Church and no longer have grace. The more moderate groups refuse to commemorate bishops who they believe are adherents of an heretical ecclesiology, but consider them to be ailing members of the Church, rather than being wholly outside it. As such, they still consider New Calendarists to have grace.
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« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2011, 12:12:46 AM »

It should also be noted that within the UOC-USA, there is no jurisdictional rule regarding the calendar issue. Some parishes (such as mine) use the Julian calendar, and other parishes use the Gregorian.

Unfortunately our Bishops, for whatever reason, have not forced the issue, and have let it be decided by parish councils.

On a personal note, I've always enjoyed the Julian observances. It stretches out the holiday season and makes winter less dreary. As everyone else is in the doldrums of January, and depressed that the holidays are come and gone, we are celebrating the Nativity on January 7, Julian New Year on Jan 14, and Theophany on January 18. Then Lent usually begins in February.

I understand the practical reasons for the switch to the Gregorian calender, but for purely sentimental reasons, I do enjoy the Julian. Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2011, 05:01:15 AM »

its my understangind that New Calendarists are simply using the different calendar that the Old Calendarists but yet OC are called hererics and schismatics and are not in communion with New Calendarist churches? Is this correct? If not, what is the correct issues and is the only calendar the only divide between the two or are there theological differences as well?

It might help to clarify some terms. Old Calendar/Old Calendrist and New Calendar/New Calendrist are often used interchangeably (as you have here) but this tends to confuse the underlying facts.

An Old Calendar Church is a church which uses the Old Calendar to determine the date of the fixed feasts and saints' days. A New Calendar Church is a church which uses the New Calendar for the same function. As already noted on this thread, within Orthodoxy there are local Churches that are all Old Calendar (the Patriarchate of Jerusalem, the Church of Serbia), local Churches that are all New Calendar (the Church of Greece, the Patriarchate of Alexandria), and local churches that have both OC and NC parishes (the Ecumenical Patriarchate, the OCA).

An 'Old Calendrist' is not simply someone who uses the Old Calendar. Rather, it indicates a person or group who have broken communion with all New Calendar Churches and with all the Old Calendar Churches that remain in communion with New Calendar churches.

The parallel 'New Calendrist'--someone who has broken communion with all Churches that remain on the Old Calendar--does not actually exist anywhere that I am aware of. When used, it is almost a synonym for New Calendar Church--except that it is also applied to Old Calendar Churches which remain in communion with New Calendar churches.

Old Calendrists are not typically called heretics. They are called schismatics because they have cut off communion with the rest of the Church which is the definition of schism. The Old Calendrists themselves are divided into a number of smaller groups who are not in communion with each other either--therefore without specifying which Old Calendrist group you are talking about, it is impossible to say to what extent other issues besides the calendar factor into the schism, although most strongly object to ecumenical activity and tie that together with the New Calendar conceptually.
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« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2011, 07:03:51 AM »

It is true that "Old Calendarist" is a confusing misnomer. "True Orthodox" is far better and is in fact what we call ourselves officially. "Old Calendarists" are what the True Orthodox are called in those countries where the official churches adopted the New Calendar. In countries where the official Orthodox churches never adopted the New Calendar, but which were suborned by the Communists or which joined the ecumenical movement, True Orthodox is usually the only label by which they are known, although in Russia they are also called the "Catacomb Church" (because they had to worship in secret, just as the early Christians), and up until recently the Russian Church Abroad was also considered a True Orthodox church, because it remained untainted by association with communism or ecumenism.

I reproduce the official explanation for the separation of the True Orthodox Church of Greece from the state Church below:

Quote
The 1935 Confession of Faith

To the Holy Synod of the Orthodox Church of Greece

It is well known among the members of the Hierarchy of Greece that we have always been opposed to its views regarding the substitution of ecclesiastical calendar for the civil calendar.

Even while we did conform to the resolution of the majority of the Hierarchy, implementing even in our own dioceses the new calendar, we justified our conformity on two grounds: a) in order to avoid the consequences of a schism in the Church, and b) in the hope that the Hierarchy would grow to be compassionate enough to restore the old Ecclesiastical festal calendar in order to heal the division that has developed among the Christians, sacrificing even personal reputations in love for the faithful for whom Christ died.

But with the passage of twelve years, seeing that, on the one hand, an ecclesiastical schism was not avoided even without us, but was, nevertheless, created by a large portion of the Orthodox Greek people that remained faithful—with much zeal—to the festal calendar bequeathed to it by the Fathers, and, on the other hand, the fact that the Hierarchy has no intentions of restoring itself to the festal path from which it was displaced, we consider the grounds on which, until now, we based our conformity to the new calendar, through ecclesiastical economy, as obsolete.

Thus, acting according to our conscience and guided by our desire for the unity of all Greek Orthodox Christians on the basis of the tradition of the festal calendar and Orthodox tradition, we inform you of the following:

Because the Hierarchy of Greece, through the inspiration of the Presiding [Hierarch] , unilaterally and uncanonically introduced the Gregorian calendar into the Church despite the institutions of the seven Ecumenical Councils and the centuries old practice of the Orthodox Church;

Because the Ruling Hierarchy (Διοικούσα Ιεραρχία) of Greece, through its introduction of the Gregorian calendar into the divine ritual without the consent of all the Orthodox Churches, shattered the unity of the universal Orthodox Church and divided the Christians into two opposing calendar factions;

Because the Ruling Hierarchy of Greece, through its adoption of the new calendar transgressed the sacred and holy Canons, which order the matters of the divine ritual, and particularly the fast of the Holy Apostles, which periodically disappears [as a result of the reform];

Because the Ruling Hierarchy of Greece in unilaterally adopting the Gregorian calendar—as much as it claims to have left the Paschal cycle unchanged, claiming to celebrate Pascha with the old calendar—could not avoid transgressing the Paschal cycle through the change of the festal calendar and the corruption of the yearly cycle of Lectionary readings (Κυριακοδρόμιον) to which the Paschal cycle adopted by the First Ecumenical Council is inseparably connected;

Because the Ruling Hierarchy of Greece, shattering the unity of universal Orthodoxy through the unilateral introduction of the Gregorian calendar into the divine ritual and dividing the Christians into two opposing calendar factions, has contradicted the doctrine embodied in the Symbol of the Faith of the“One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church”;

Because the Ruling Hierarchy of Greece, in unilaterally and uncanonically adopting the Gregorian calendar without serious Ecclesiastical reasons, became a source of scandal among the Christians [and] a cause of religious division and strife between Christians, rejecting, on account of the new calendar, the unity in the faith, Christian love, and moral compassion in their relations between each other;

Because, last of all among the above listed reasons, the Ruling Hierarchy of Greece cut and walled itself off from the catholic body of Orthodoxy, according to the spirit of the Holy Canons, effectively declaring itself schismatic, as argued the special committee of National University legal scholars and theologians appointed to examine the calendar question, a member of which His Beatitude happened to be, serving then as a university professor;

For these reasons, in submitting to the Ruling Synod our annotated protest we make known that from henceforth, we sever all relations and ecclesiastical communion with the [Ruling Hierarchy] for as long as it maintains the calendar innovation, taking up the Ecclesiastical pastorship of the section of the Orthodox Greek people, organized in numerous communities, that renounced the State Church and remained faithful to the Patristic and Orthodox Julian calendar.

Bringing these things to the attention of the Ruling Hierarchy, in good faith we hope that, understanding the great responsibility that it bears before God, the Orthodox Church, and the Nation which it divided into two opposing religious factions without cause, the Ruling Hierarchy will reconsider its resolution regarding the calendar of the Church and will be moved to compassion and restore the Orthodox, Patristic, Ecclesiastical festal calendar, while the new calendar is kept in the affairs of the state, for the restoration of Orthodoxy and the peace of the Church and the Nation.

+ Metropolitan Germanos of Demetrias
+ Metropolitan Chrysostom of Florina, ret.
+ Metropolitan Chrysostom of Zachynthos
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« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2011, 07:15:42 AM »

...and other parishes use the Gregorian. 

Even for the Easter? I thought that my church was the only one who celebrates Easter according to Gregorian calendar. I believe even the Estonian church of Ecumenical Patriarchate has recently switched to celebrating Easter according to Julian calendar.
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« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2011, 08:07:32 AM »


I understand the practical reasons for the switch to the Gregorian calender, but for purely sentimental reasons, I do enjoy the Julian. Smiley
One bit of a quibble here: the Gregorian calendar and the Revised Julian Calendar are not the same. The dates were set to coincide when the New Calendar (i.e. Revised Julian) was introduced, but the rule for leap years is more accurate. The two calendars will diverge by one day beginning in the year A.D. 2800.
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« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2011, 08:20:07 AM »


I understand the practical reasons for the switch to the Gregorian calender, but for purely sentimental reasons, I do enjoy the Julian. Smiley
One bit of a quibble here: the Gregorian calendar and the Revised Julian Calendar are not the same. The dates were set to coincide when the New Calendar (i.e. Revised Julian) was introduced, but the rule for leap years is more accurate. The two calendars will diverge by one day beginning in the year A.D. 2800.

Until 2800 they are effectively the same calendar.
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« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2011, 08:32:13 AM »

One significant problem of the conversion to the Revised Julian Calendar, has been the resulting mixed calendar use within the Eastern Orthodox Christian Church.  The situation is attributable to the fact that the conversion, which began in 1924, was not effected in a conciliar manner-on a pan-Orthodox basis.  There was the 1923 Pan-Orthodox Congress which was attended by a few representatives of several, and not all, of the Holy Orthodox Churches, which was convened by the Ecumenical Patriarchate at The Phanar in Constantinople, and recommended the conversion.   But the change was not agreed to by the Holy Synods of all of the Holy Orthodox Churches.  It was the reformist government of Greece that chose to convert the nation's civil calendar to the Gregorian Calendar, which by that time had been adopted by Western nations.  Then, the Greek government pressured the primate of the Church of Greece to change the church's calendar.  One of the primary causes of the government's insistence was that the government felt that the Greek populous would demand that Greek Independence Day, March 25th, had to occur on the same day as the Feast of the Annunciation to the Theotokos, as it was in 1821, when Bishop Germanos of Old Patras proclaimed the revolution, following his having celebrated the Divine Liturgy for the Annunciation Feast Day.  Being dependent on the government's financial support, the Archbishop of Athens, who only a few years earlier had chaired a special commission to examine the calendar question for the Greek Holy Synod, and issued a report that indicated that a conversion could only be accomplished on a pan-Orthodox basis, under the leadership of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, pressured the Ecumenical Patriarchate to make the conversion.  The Patriarchate of Constantinople was in turmoil due to the change in governments from the Ottoman's and the Kemalic Republic and was likewise substantially dependent on the Greek government's financial support, owing, at least in part, to the population exchange between Turkey and Greece.  (Transfer of church owned properties in the prior century to the government was what had/has created this dependence on the Greek government.)  The Ecumenical Patriarchate obliged, converting to the so called Revised Julian Calendar, which reverts to the Julian Calendar for the Paschal Cycle of movable feasts.   But as the change wasn't agreed to by any forum of the Holy Orthodox Churches, we are left with the mixed calendar use among the Churches, "some feast, while other fast," as Old Calendarists assert.  

The calendar conversion and the involvement of the Holy Orthodox Churches in the ecumenical movement, has also caused the so called Old Calendarist, or traditionalist, separation.  These separated Old Calendarist Churches seize upon a canon, that calls the faithful and the clergy to "wall [themselves] off," from bishops who preach false teaching.   Therefore, today, we have the Holy Orthodox Churches using both calendars, (even within each church, like the Ecumenical Patriarchate, which led the conversion, while nearly all of the monasteries on the Holy Mountain, Mt. Athos, which is under its jurisdiction, retain the old calendar); and we have the Old Calendar schism, churches which have voluntarily separated from the Holy Orthodox Churches.  These separated churches consider the old calendar, the Julian Calendar, to have become sanctified through its use by the church.

This situation is a lesson for those today who recently have advocated for the convening of the Holy and Great Synod (Council) of the Orthodox Church, which has been in planning stages for over 81 years, before a consensus is achieved on the issues it will address, arguing in favor of majority decision making, instead of general consensus.
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« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2011, 11:19:46 AM »

It should also be noted that within the UOC-USA, there is no jurisdictional rule regarding the calendar issue. Some parishes (such as mine) use the Julian calendar, and other parishes use the Gregorian.

Unfortunately our Bishops, for whatever reason, have not forced the issue, and have let it be decided by parish councils.

On a personal note, I've always enjoyed the Julian observances. It stretches out the holiday season and makes winter less dreary. As everyone else is in the doldrums of January, and depressed that the holidays are come and gone, we are celebrating the Nativity on January 7, Julian New Year on Jan 14, and Theophany on January 18. Then Lent usually begins in February.

I understand the practical reasons for the switch to the Gregorian calender, but for purely sentimental reasons, I do enjoy the Julian. Smiley

Same with ACROD, at least the OCA had the guts to bite the bullet and be uniform after ten years of parish voting. It is confusing for families and parishes for one parish to be old and the other new with the same Bishop.

To me the calendar calculations are not a dogmatic or faith issue. After all the Julian Calendar is a pre-Christian invention with Greek, Egyptian and Roman bits and pieces. It is out of sync with the reality of the cosmos and for that reason holding on to it seems to me to be a bit like holding on to geocentrism or the flat earth. However, I am in no hurry to change. If it comes, so be it, if not, so be it.
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« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2011, 11:38:40 AM »

It should also be noted that within the UOC-USA, there is no jurisdictional rule regarding the calendar issue. Some parishes (such as mine) use the Julian calendar, and other parishes use the Gregorian.

Unfortunately our Bishops, for whatever reason, have not forced the issue, and have let it be decided by parish councils.

On a personal note, I've always enjoyed the Julian observances. It stretches out the holiday season and makes winter less dreary. As everyone else is in the doldrums of January, and depressed that the holidays are come and gone, we are celebrating the Nativity on January 7, Julian New Year on Jan 14, and Theophany on January 18. Then Lent usually begins in February.

I understand the practical reasons for the switch to the Gregorian calender, but for purely sentimental reasons, I do enjoy the Julian. Smiley

Same with ACROD, at least the OCA had the guts to bite the bullet and be uniform after ten years of parish voting. It is confusing for families and parishes for one parish to be old and the other new with the same Bishop.

IMO it's the best way. My Church also has such practise.
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« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2011, 05:56:43 PM »


I understand the practical reasons for the switch to the Gregorian calender, but for purely sentimental reasons, I do enjoy the Julian. Smiley
One bit of a quibble here: the Gregorian calendar and the Revised Julian Calendar are not the same. The dates were set to coincide when the New Calendar (i.e. Revised Julian) was introduced, but the rule for leap years is more accurate. The two calendars will diverge by one day beginning in the year A.D. 2800.

Until 2800 they are effectively the same calendar.
Let's not get into this debate here.
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« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2011, 05:57:54 PM »

For more information on the calendar controversy, please see this thread: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,2233.0.html
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« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2011, 06:07:57 PM »

...and other parishes use the Gregorian. 

Even for the Easter? I thought that my church was the only one who celebrates Easter according to Gregorian calendar. I believe even the Estonian church of Ecumenical Patriarchate has recently switched to celebrating Easter according to Julian calendar.

No, I should clarify that I meant the revised Julian.

My apologies for any confusion I may have caused.
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« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2011, 06:55:37 PM »

It should also be noted that within the UOC-USA, there is no jurisdictional rule regarding the calendar issue. Some parishes (such as mine) use the Julian calendar, and other parishes use the Gregorian.

Unfortunately our Bishops, for whatever reason, have not forced the issue, and have let it be decided by parish councils.

On a personal note, I've always enjoyed the Julian observances. It stretches out the holiday season and makes winter less dreary. As everyone else is in the doldrums of January, and depressed that the holidays are come and gone, we are celebrating the Nativity on January 7, Julian New Year on Jan 14, and Theophany on January 18. Then Lent usually begins in February.

I understand the practical reasons for the switch to the Gregorian calender, but for purely sentimental reasons, I do enjoy the Julian. Smiley

Same with ACROD, at least the OCA had the guts to bite the bullet and be uniform after ten years of parish voting. It is confusing for families and parishes for one parish to be old and the other new with the same Bishop.

To me the calendar calculations are not a dogmatic or faith issue. After all the Julian Calendar is a pre-Christian invention with Greek, Egyptian and Roman bits and pieces. It is out of sync with the reality of the cosmos and for that reason holding on to it seems to me to be a bit like holding on to geocentrism or the flat earth. However, I am in no hurry to change. If it comes, so be it, if not, so be it.

Hey, here in California, within the OCA under Bishop Benjamin, there are Old and New Calendar parishes who celebrate Christmas on different dates: Dec. 25 and Jan. 7. How confusing is that? Bishop Benjamin has to be on his toes whenever he visits a parish.

I am glad that I am now in an Old Calendar jurisdiction where all parishes follow the same calendar.
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« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2011, 07:07:42 PM »

Havent read the entire thread, hope it hasent been asked and answered already. if it has, sorry.

What was the reason behind the change to the new calander?

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« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2011, 07:23:52 PM »

Havent read the entire thread, hope it hasent been asked and answered already. if it has, sorry.

What was the reason behind the change to the new calander?

niko

While it will be debated and argued otherwise, the reason in the beginning was ecumenism. It is a sad development but there is no other way around it that changing the calendar has led to division and schism in the Church.

http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/ea_calendar.aspx

http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/photii_2.aspx
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« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2011, 07:44:48 PM »

Havent read the entire thread, hope it hasent been asked and answered already. if it has, sorry.

What was the reason behind the change to the new calander?

niko

Havent read the entire thread, hope it hasent been asked and answered already. if it has, sorry.

What was the reason behind the change to the new calander?

niko

While it will be debated and argued otherwise, the reason in the beginning was ecumenism. It is a sad development but there is no other way around it that changing the calendar has led to division and schism in the Church.

http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/ea_calendar.aspx

http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/photii_2.aspx
Overly simplistic response based on only one side of the story, IMO.

For more information on this subject or to take up either side of the debate, please see this thread: Old vs. New Calendar?
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« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2011, 07:56:12 PM »

What percentage of the church changed to the new calender?
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« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2011, 08:17:21 PM »

What percentage of the church changed to the new calender?

About 20% of the Orthodox Christians in the world use the New Calendar, though if you are going by the number of local Churches using it rather than their Church population then the new calendar Churches have a slight edge. However, a modification/change here and there could change the situation greatly. For example, take away the new calendarists in one country, Romania, and the new calendar population falls to less than 10%. On the other hand, the old calendar numbers would also see a drastic cut if you took away Russia.
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« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2011, 08:27:55 PM »

It should also be noted that within the UOC-USA, there is no jurisdictional rule regarding the calendar issue. Some parishes (such as mine) use the Julian calendar, and other parishes use the Gregorian.

Unfortunately our Bishops, for whatever reason, have not forced the issue, and have let it be decided by parish councils.

On a personal note, I've always enjoyed the Julian observances. It stretches out the holiday season and makes winter less dreary. As everyone else is in the doldrums of January, and depressed that the holidays are come and gone, we are celebrating the Nativity on January 7, Julian New Year on Jan 14, and Theophany on January 18. Then Lent usually begins in February.

I understand the practical reasons for the switch to the Gregorian calender, but for purely sentimental reasons, I do enjoy the Julian. Smiley

Same with ACROD, at least the OCA had the guts to bite the bullet and be uniform after ten years of parish voting. It is confusing for families and parishes for one parish to be old and the other new with the same Bishop.

To me the calendar calculations are not a dogmatic or faith issue. After all the Julian Calendar is a pre-Christian invention with Greek, Egyptian and Roman bits and pieces. It is out of sync with the reality of the cosmos and for that reason holding on to it seems to me to be a bit like holding on to geocentrism or the flat earth. However, I am in no hurry to change. If it comes, so be it, if not, so be it.

Hey, here in California, within the OCA under Bishop Benjamin, there are Old and New Calendar parishes who celebrate Christmas on different dates: Dec. 25 and Jan. 7. How confusing is that? Bishop Benjamin has to be on his toes whenever he visits a parish.

I am glad that I am now in an Old Calendar jurisdiction where all parishes follow the same calendar.
Would you be just as happy in a New Calendar jurisdiction where all parishes follow the same calendar?
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« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2011, 08:30:48 PM »

To add--I haven't looked at the numbers, but I'm pretty sure if Russia switched calendars that the new calendar would then make the majority population (and if memory serves they almost did switch, but from what I remember it was because they had been lied to, having been told that the rest of the Orthodox world had agreed to make the change... when they found out that the idea had far from unanimous support they decided not to change). Also to add--I don't mean by my post(s) to imply that numbers equate to being right, just answering what I think is a perfectly valid question when trying to understand the situation.
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« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2011, 11:33:24 PM »

Wow, something so meaningless as dates on a calendar caused the church to devide!
Vvery sad.

So, old and new calendarists do not recognise each other as the Orthodox Church?

I never realy felt it, no one ever said anything about it.

I was under the impression that some follow the old and some the new BUT both were still of the same church.

I should do some reaserch on this
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Thanks for the responces and the links.
Niko
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« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2011, 11:36:52 PM »

Wow, something so meaningless as dates on a calendar caused the church to devide!
Vvery sad.

So, old and new calendarists do not recognise each other as the Orthodox Church?

I never realy felt it, no one ever said anything about it.

I was under the impression that some follow the old and some the new BUT both were still of the same church.

I should do some reaserch on this
.
Thanks for the responces and the links.
Niko

Well, that's not entirely true. It depends. Some do recognize each other, some don't. There are some splinter groups, such as the Greek Old Calenderists, then there are others, like the Moscow Patriarch, who observe the Old Calender, but are in communion with the Greek Orthodox that observe the New Calendar.

It's enough to make your head spin, for sure. Wink
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« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2011, 12:20:59 AM »

"It's enough to make your head spin, for sure."
Perfectly said!

Curious: On Mt. Athos are the all old calandarists?
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« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2011, 12:50:31 AM »

"It's enough to make your head spin, for sure."
Perfectly said!

Curious: On Mt. Athos are the all old calandarists?

On Mount Athos the monks use the old calendar. 
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 12:50:47 AM by Ionnis » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2011, 01:09:34 AM »

"It's enough to make your head spin, for sure."
Perfectly said!

Curious: On Mt. Athos are the all old calandarists?

On Mount Athos the monks use the old calendar. 

Though most are under the supervision of a new calendar bishop Wink
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« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2011, 01:10:39 AM »

Now that is enough to make your head spin.   laugh
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« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2011, 02:06:29 AM »

Perhaps it is not just the issue of the Church's Julian Calendar vs. the new Gregorian Calendar?  Peter I "the 'Great' " of Russia abandoned the use of the Byzantine Imperial Calendar, by which the New Year is September 1, with the dating being not from the birth of Christ, Anno Domini, but from the Year of the foundation of the world,( i.e. Creation) Annus Mundi, this year being 7520 AM.
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« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2011, 04:38:24 AM »

Astounding that there should be such division over dates in a church which historically, leans so heavily on the strength of their unity.

'lol' of the day for me.
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« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2011, 05:08:37 AM »

Astounding that there should be such division over dates in a church which historically, leans so heavily on the strength of their unity.

'lol' of the day for me.

Daft, isn't it? Not so much a 'lol' on the inside, though. It's really a shame that this has divided anyone.  Cry
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« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2011, 07:59:26 AM »

"It's enough to make your head spin, for sure."
Perfectly said!

Curious: On Mt. Athos are the all old calandarists?

On Mount Athos the monks use the old calendar. 

Is that really true?
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« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2011, 08:39:36 AM »

alpo,
in romania not only the orthodox but also the protestants celebrate Pascha on the old calendar.
the catholics are on the new calendar. protestants and orthodox call the old calendar Pascha 'catholic Pascha' as if it was some strange, new idea!

however, in romania, all the churches celebrate the same new calendar Christmas.
it's enough to make yr head spin! (love that quote)

in my opinion, if u love God and yr fellow Christians, it is less important when u celebrate. although i quite like having 2 Christmasses, i do agree with podkarpatska and ialmisry that the earth itself seems to be currently rotating on the the new calendar.
if i ever i meet my patriarch, i may mention it!
 Wink
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« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2011, 09:08:06 PM »

The more controversial posts on this thread have been split off and merged into the following Faith Issues thread: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,2233.msg684725.html#msg684725
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 09:38:44 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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