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Author Topic: The ideal prayer book?  (Read 2999 times) Average Rating: 0
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Stepan
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« on: December 23, 2011, 03:41:14 PM »

My very first prayer book was the small, red pocket prayer book (which is still my go to prayerbook). I do have a Jordanville as well asmthe Orthodox Prayer Book from Holy Protection monastery (I like the selection of prayers though the modern English is a bit clumsy at times, IMHO) which is starting to grow on me.

However, got to thinking this morning and wondered why there are no prayer books which also contain the psalter? I think the ideal prayerbook would be something that contains morning and evening and the rest of the usual material but instead of the text of the divine liturgy, include the psalter according to the seventy.

The Holy Protection monastery prayer book would be a good candidate to add a psalter and a table of daily scripture readings To. This would be the ideal prayer book for private devotion I think.
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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2011, 04:22:25 PM »

I love the Psalter - and prayerfully read the Psalms as the center part of my prayer life - but there are additional prayers from the Saints and our Holy Father's that are . . . wow. . for lack of a better term, so often my heart cries. 

My common use prayer book is a collection of prayers and Akathists that I put into a loose leaf notebook. . .this way I don't get distracted by skipping around in a book or skipping from one book to another.  It works well for me.  I have this transferred to my Kindle as well, so that it will go with me when I travel.

I also use the Psalter of the 70, the Jordanville Prayer Book, the Antiochian Service Book and the Book of Akathists. 

I am amazed at the wealth of prayers our Holy Church holds for us.  I'm so thankful.  I've found so many prayers or have been introduced to them by others that have gone far beyond what I could ever need. 

And to think that three years ago.  .  . I simply could not pray because I was so out of words and hurting.  When we can't, He not only CAN, but DOES. 

Smiley 
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« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2011, 05:30:07 PM »

ours has nearly half the psalms. i think it's from the septuagint, the translation looks similar (it has gone from coptic to arabic to english).
it's here:
www.agpeya.org
 Smiley
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Stepan
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« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2011, 05:38:36 PM »

And to think that three years ago.  .  . I simply could not pray because I was so out of words and hurting.  When we can't, He not only CAN, but DOES. 

I total understand that sentiment. I have been in that place for awhile and between my first confession and the wealth of prayers, I find that hurt melting away and my heart once again experiencing joy and peace.

That being said, I am going to buy a pocket edition of the psalter.
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« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2011, 05:39:27 PM »

ours has nearly half the psalms. i think it's from the septuagint, the translation looks similar (it has gone from coptic to arabic to english).
it's here:
www.agpeya.org
 Smiley

Yes, I have seen he agapeya. Smiley
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« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2011, 05:50:13 PM »

And to think that three years ago.  .  . I simply could not pray because I was so out of words and hurting.  When we can't, He not only CAN, but DOES. 

I total understand that sentiment. I have been in that place for awhile and between my first confession and the wealth of prayers, I find that hurt melting away and my heart once again experiencing joy and peace.

That being said, I am going to buy a pocket edition of the psalter.

You'll love it. . .I love mine, it's small enough to go into my purse and take with me.  The language is classic English, which can either pull you in a little deeper or . . .heh . . .make it a little more difficult to concentrate depending on attention span at the moment.  But you won't waste your money!
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« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2011, 05:54:50 PM »

I agree, though the only thing is, whenever I do Psalms I use the KJV. Even if the Psalm(s) is written in the book using a different translation, I still do the KJV from memory. It's not that I think it's uber-superior, yet it's hard for me to break away from that translation for some reason. It would be nice to have it in one place though. Also, other aids would be great and easy to incorporate, such as a chart in the middle of orthros and vespers letting you know which kathisma(ta) to say (so you don't have to flip here and there looking for it if you don't remember).
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« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2011, 06:40:43 PM »

One of these days (I say that a lot, though) I want to make my own app.for my phone with all the prayers, akathists, canons, etc plus the psalter in the various translations/language style that I use for myself.  It will take some long work, but I know I can do it.

Having the psalter is a must, afaic.
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« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2011, 06:48:16 PM »

My common use prayer book is a collection of prayers and Akathists that I put into a loose leaf notebook. . .

I've done something similar to this before. I liked it. I'm currently using the HTM prayerbook bcause of the matins and vespers included, my schedule is backwards and I don't always wake up in the morning and go to sleep at night, so I use those services as a general guide for a morning and evening prayer rule that centers around the time of day without emphasizing waking up and going to sleep.  While I don't care for the translation itself (there are a number of prayers that I look to see what the prayer is and recite it from memory according to what I'm familiar with while skipping over the text in the book - a problem I never had with the "notebook" method), while not including the entire psalter, it does include the psalms found in the beginning of the liturgy, matins, vespers, compline, and the beginning of the pre-Communion prayers, in the appropriate places in those services.
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2012, 08:09:55 PM »

I have quite the collection building of prayer books. I think I have over eight now. I just can't find one to stick with. I don't know why that is, but it is. Presently I have the Publican's Prayer Book and The SVIT prayer book on the way. I love the pocket pslater.
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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2012, 08:21:46 PM »

My common use prayer book is a collection of prayers and Akathists that I put into a loose leaf notebook. . .

I've done something similar to this before. I liked it. I'm currently using the HTM prayerbook bcause of the matins and vespers included, my schedule is backwards and I don't always wake up in the morning and go to sleep at night, so I use those services as a general guide for a morning and evening prayer rule that centers around the time of day without emphasizing waking up and going to sleep.  While I don't care for the translation itself (there are a number of prayers that I look to see what the prayer is and recite it from memory according to what I'm familiar with while skipping over the text in the book - a problem I never had with the "notebook" method), while not including the entire psalter, it does include the psalms found in the beginning of the liturgy, matins, vespers, compline, and the beginning of the pre-Communion prayers, in the appropriate places in those services.

I've been thinking of doing something similar, but the Matins and Vespers services are just so unwieldy (Matins more so). Do you have a preferred abbreviation method, or do you just go whole hog?
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2012, 12:42:57 AM »

My common use prayer book is a collection of prayers and Akathists that I put into a loose leaf notebook. . .

I've done something similar to this before. I liked it. I'm currently using the HTM prayerbook bcause of the matins and vespers included, my schedule is backwards and I don't always wake up in the morning and go to sleep at night, so I use those services as a general guide for a morning and evening prayer rule that centers around the time of day without emphasizing waking up and going to sleep.  While I don't care for the translation itself (there are a number of prayers that I look to see what the prayer is and recite it from memory according to what I'm familiar with while skipping over the text in the book - a problem I never had with the "notebook" method), while not including the entire psalter, it does include the psalms found in the beginning of the liturgy, matins, vespers, compline, and the beginning of the pre-Communion prayers, in the appropriate places in those services.

I've been thinking of doing something similar, but the Matins and Vespers services are just so unwieldy (Matins more so). Do you have a preferred abbreviation method, or do you just go whole hog?

I go whole hog - but honestly, I'm in the process of convalescing - so . . . I have TIME to go whole hog.  These are not in my notebook, though.  I use The Antiochian Service Book and the Jordanville Prayer book for these.  (I use the The Jordanville Prayer Book to read the six Psalms of Matins as they read better for me.)

When I'm well, then I will, if God is willing, be at church for these - though it's really been a blessing to be able to pray Vespers every day at sun down. . .if He is willing, I'd like to continue to pray the evening Vespers every day. 
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« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2012, 10:09:55 PM »

I think the ideal prayer book would be the one that pinches your cheek when you start to doze off or think about cutting a few prayers short.
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« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2012, 10:25:32 PM »

I think the ideal prayer book would be the one that pinches your cheek when you start to doze off or think about cutting a few prayers short.

I got this mental image of someone standing at prayer, starting to slur and closing their eyes... then a hand shoot out from the book and slaps them. "W... what just happened?"
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« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2012, 10:54:25 PM »

Quote from: Nadege link=topic=41863.msg715414#msg7154tr14 date=1330481395
I think the ideal prayer book would be the one that pinches your cheek when you start to doze off or think about cutting a few prayers short.

True. That.
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« Reply #15 on: February 29, 2012, 11:12:28 AM »

I too have the little red prayer book.  I love it, and I just ordered a pocket psalter (the holy transfiguration one) a few days ago.  Its been 5 days now and it still hasnt shipped.  Not real excited about that.
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« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2012, 01:58:40 AM »

 you know, I would have said the Old Orthodox Prayer book because it is like a mini Horologion and Prayer book all rolled into one. Now it doesnt have the lenten services per se, but it does have Matins, 1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th hours, Vespers, and Morning and prayers before sleep. Im really struck at how there are no little hours in every prayer book that I own except for the OOPB. That was always a pet peeve of mine. You might just have time to pray in the afternoon.... However. I prefer the morning and evening prayers of the Jordanville prayer book to the ones in the OOPB, and most every other prayer book. Neither one has compline though... sigh... The HTM and OCA prayer books have compline.

 But the OOPB has the worst construction of the bunch. Newspaper quality paper and glued binding. Ugg. The UOC has outstanding construction and paper as well as HTM's. Jordanvilles is very good too (but I dont think the paper is quite as good) but they gilt the page edges. The one in slavonic is better constructed, laid out, and has two color printing.

So I guess My Ideal prayer book would be the quality of the Russian prayer book (or HTM or UOC with guilted page edges) with primarily the OOPB prayer contents, only substitute the morning and evening prayers with the Jordanville, and add Compline.  A psalter isnt necessary but you could definitely add one without  adding too much bulk, but since I have the HTM psalter Im not overly concerned with it.  In the St. Andrews Book of Common prayer (which is made for and used by Antiochan Orthodox Western Rite parishes) it does contain the Coverdale Psalter, but they use bible paper and I would NOT want that.  If you added the psalter to the UOC prayer book, it would be necessary to make it enlarge it considerably because it is written in Ukrainian and English, but if you did it in one language it would actually make the book smaller.
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« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2012, 03:11:42 PM »

you know, I would have said the Old Orthodox Prayer book because it is like a mini Horologion and Prayer book all rolled into one. Now it doesnt have the lenten services per se, but it does have Matins, 1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th hours, Vespers, and Morning and prayers before sleep. Im really struck at how there are no little hours in every prayer book that I own except for the OOPB. That was always a pet peeve of mine. You might just have time to pray in the afternoon.... However. I prefer the morning and evening prayers of the Jordanville prayer book to the ones in the OOPB, and most every other prayer book. Neither one has compline though... sigh... The HTM and OCA prayer books have compline.

 But the OOPB has the worst construction of the bunch. Newspaper quality paper and glued binding. Ugg. The UOC has outstanding construction and paper as well as HTM's. Jordanvilles is very good too (but I dont think the paper is quite as good) but they gilt the page edges. The one in slavonic is better constructed, laid out, and has two color printing.

So I guess My Ideal prayer book would be the quality of the Russian prayer book (or HTM or UOC with guilted page edges) with primarily the OOPB prayer contents, only substitute the morning and evening prayers with the Jordanville, and add Compline.  A psalter isnt necessary but you could definitely add one without  adding too much bulk, but since I have the HTM psalter Im not overly concerned with it.  In the St. Andrews Book of Common prayer (which is made for and used by Antiochan Orthodox Western Rite parishes) it does contain the Coverdale Psalter, but they use bible paper and I would NOT want that.  If you added the psalter to the UOC prayer book, it would be necessary to make it enlarge it considerably because it is written in Ukrainian and English, but if you did it in one language it would actually make the book smaller.

The problem is, there is not way to add the Psalter and Hours without using Bible paper- the book would be enormous, heavy and cost about as much as getting all the separate volumes anyway.
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« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2012, 01:45:47 AM »

I have quite the collection building of prayer books. I think I have over eight now. I just can't find one to stick with. I don't know why that is, but it is. Presently I have the Publican's Prayer Book and The SVIT prayer book on the way. I love the pocket pslater.

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, I just wanted to ask where you can purchase the Publican's Prayer Book ?

Thanks
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« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2012, 02:02:55 PM »

https://melkite.org/products-page/prayer-books

They have quality stuff. I had thier Horologion, but I did not like the psalm translation. But if it wasnt for that it be outstanding. Perfect size, high quality.   Im using the new HDM psalter which I think is excellent, even better then the new Jordanville one based on the Coverdale corrected to the Septuigint. Im not sure what translation the Melkite one is, but its very Grailish. Not a fan of dumbed down Scripture.

Also keep in mind most folks have said the Publican prayer book is like a modernized Jordanville Prayer Book(theres more in the Publican but the prayers are essentially the same I guess) And keep in mind that you can get two Jordanvilles for the price of one of the Publican and you can find em at any OCA, ROCOR, or even non Slavic Orthodox Parishes.

Just some thoughts. Although I wish more Eastern Rite Roman Catholics would support thier publications. You dont and then they stop making em. Then all your left with is Baronius Press!
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« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2012, 03:58:58 AM »

https://melkite.org/products-page/prayer-books

They have quality stuff. I had thier Horologion, but I did not like the psalm translation. But if it wasnt for that it be outstanding. Perfect size, high quality.   Im using the new HDM psalter which I think is excellent, even better then the new Jordanville one based on the Coverdale corrected to the Septuigint. Im not sure what translation the Melkite one is, but its very Grailish. Not a fan of dumbed down Scripture.

Also keep in mind most folks have said the Publican prayer book is like a modernized Jordanville Prayer Book(theres more in the Publican but the prayers are essentially the same I guess) And keep in mind that you can get two Jordanvilles for the price of one of the Publican and you can find em at any OCA, ROCOR, or even non Slavic Orthodox Parishes.

Just some thoughts. Although I wish more Eastern Rite Roman Catholics would support thier publications. You dont and then they stop making em. Then all your left with is Baronius Press!

Thanks, I sent them an email about delivery.

It is very hard to get decent English books here in Greece and the postage is sometimes more than the book.

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« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2012, 04:15:26 AM »

So KShaft, the prayer book that is $35.95, that's the one you are talking about? I really want to get it.

Thanks, I sent them an email about delivery.

It is very hard to get decent English books here in Greece and the postage is sometimes more than the book.
Can you tell me how much postage costs from here to Greece? Maybe I can buy the book for you and we can go half on the shipping to Greece? I might be able to get something shipped out by FedEx to you for free.
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« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2012, 04:51:48 AM »

Bump so KShaft sees this, looking for an answer soon cause I'm itching to get a prayer book.
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« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2012, 03:18:45 PM »

  Im using the new HDM psalter which I think is excellent

KShaft, could you tell us more about this psalter and where it can be found? Thanks.
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« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2012, 02:37:58 AM »

I managed to get

"A Psalter for Prayer: An Adaptation of the Classic Miles Coverdale Translation, Augmented by Prayers and Instructional Material Drawn from Church Slavonic and Other Orthodox Christian Sources"

It is very good.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0884651886/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
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« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2012, 11:38:48 AM »

If you can't find an ideal prayer book you can always make your own I guess. I recommend this software and service, just design the book then send it off to get it printed and voila!

Software is free: http://www.blurb.com/booksmart
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