Author Topic: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery  (Read 6564 times)

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Offline biro

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Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« on: December 12, 2011, 03:20:27 PM »
According to a statement by the Saudi state news agency, a woman from Jawf province was beheaded Monday. The government claimed that Amina bint Abdul Halim bin Salem Nasser had "practiced witchcraft and sorcery."

From the article:
Quote
BBC regionalist analyst Sebastian Usher says the interior ministry stated that the verdict against Ms Nasser was upheld by Saudi Arabia's highest courts, but it did not give specific details of the charges.

The London-based newspaper, al-Hayat, quoted a member of the religious police as saying that she was in her 60s and had tricked people into giving her money, claiming that she could cure their illnesses.
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Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2011, 04:46:34 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Lord have His Mercy!

I would just like to add two things:  A) perhaps there is far more to this than the occult, perhaps this woman could have been involved in politics contrary to the Saudis notoriously oppressive regime and therefore this is an assassination veiled behind mob rule?  Or could it by like our own American experience with witch hunts, in my classes they are reading the Crucible, and we've had several discussions about the underlying social tensions behind witch hunts, could this be a similar situation? 

B) Black magic and witchcraft can be very very dangerous in many parts of the world.  In Uganda , Kenya, and Tanzania albino children have come under violence as "witch-doctors" (I usually don't use this pejorative term but in this instance I reject the term traditional healer when these folks evolve from local botany to murder :( ) are using their body parts for various potions and concoctions.  Here in LA we have a lot of Santeria and it is equally frightening the level some witches will go in their superstitions!  So while I would say that the Saudis are clearly reacting with an unjustly heavy hand, perhaps they have more of an occult problem than we realize? After all, the Saudis are again a repressive regime and very little accurate news gets out of the country, we don't know if they don't have a situation like Uganda evolving.  I would support a heavy hand (albeit less heavy, not the point of summary executions, that is never justice) against such kinds of seriously dangerous occult practices if such were on the rise in  Saudi Arabia or anywhere for that matter.

TANGENT 

This is in our Bibles (2 Kings 3:27), so we know that this is a part of the human experience, which we may have thought was ancient history.  One of Joseph Campbell's most potent insights was the evolution in world religion away from human sacrifice towards substitution sacrifices with animals.  Campbell asserts just prior to the Bronze Age human sacrifice was a common across the world and that a religious revolution occurred as animal sacrifices evolved to replace the spilling of human blood. This was a major change in the religious mind of the human experience, that human beings no longer needed to be directly sacrificed, but that our lives are a living sacrifice, and devotion to ritual and worship become the sacrifice.  The animals slaughtered become surrogates, but it is in the act of slaughtering that humans manifest their "faith through works" (in the words of Saint James) and therefore negate the need for human sacrifice.  Unfortunately, this revolution hasn't taken over across all of humanity, and many people still believe in human sacrifice or the power of human blood or body parts in spiritual, religious ways. (This is a tangent from a women be beheaded for witchcraft to be sure, and yet it isn't, after all, when people summarily execute a person for witchcraft are the not sacrificing them to their beliefs, could not this execution be then viewed as a kind of sacrifice?)

Let us pray for these matters.

Stay Blessed,
Habte Selassie
"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2011, 05:12:17 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Lord have His Mercy!

I would just like to add two things:  A) perhaps there is far more to this than the occult, perhaps this woman could have been involved in politics contrary to the Saudis notoriously oppressive regime and therefore this is an assassination veiled behind mob rule?  Or could it by like our own American experience with witch hunts, in my classes they are reading the Crucible, and we've had several discussions about the underlying social tensions behind witch hunts, could this be a similar situation? 

B) Black magic and witchcraft can be very very dangerous in many parts of the world.  In Uganda , Kenya, and Tanzania albino children have come under violence as "witch-doctors" (I usually don't use this pejorative term but in this instance I reject the term traditional healer when these folks evolve from local botany to murder :( ) are using their body parts for various potions and concoctions.  Here in LA we have a lot of Santeria and it is equally frightening the level some witches will go in their superstitions!  So while I would say that the Saudis are clearly reacting with an unjustly heavy hand, perhaps they have more of an occult problem than we realize? After all, the Saudis are again a repressive regime and very little accurate news gets out of the country, we don't know if they don't have a situation like Uganda evolving.  I would support a heavy hand (albeit less heavy, not the point of summary executions, that is never justice) against such kinds of seriously dangerous occult practices if such were on the rise in  Saudi Arabia or anywhere for that matter.

TANGENT 

This is in our Bibles (2 Kings 3:27), so we know that this is a part of the human experience, which we may have thought was ancient history.  One of Joseph Campbell's most potent insights was the evolution in world religion away from human sacrifice towards substitution sacrifices with animals.  Campbell asserts just prior to the Bronze Age human sacrifice was a common across the world and that a religious revolution occurred as animal sacrifices evolved to replace the spilling of human blood. This was a major change in the religious mind of the human experience, that human beings no longer needed to be directly sacrificed, but that our lives are a living sacrifice, and devotion to ritual and worship become the sacrifice.  The animals slaughtered become surrogates, but it is in the act of slaughtering that humans manifest their "faith through works" (in the words of Saint James) and therefore negate the need for human sacrifice.  Unfortunately, this revolution hasn't taken over across all of humanity, and many people still believe in human sacrifice or the power of human blood or body parts in spiritual, religious ways. (This is a tangent from a women be beheaded for witchcraft to be sure, and yet it isn't, after all, when people summarily execute a person for witchcraft are the not sacrificing them to their beliefs, could not this execution be then viewed as a kind of sacrifice?)

Let us pray for these matters.

Stay Blessed,
Habte Selassie

Multiverse?

Joseph Campbell?

Is Wayne Dyer next?

If you want to read contemporary thought on sacrifice that actually impacts serious discussions on these matters in the East and West and not at whatever newage bookstore you are shopping at, I would suggest the writing of Rene Girard. Girard focuses on the unique experience of the sacrifice in Temple Judaism, the change in Christianity, and how both differ from "religion" and its literature throughout the world.

 


Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2011, 05:16:53 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!




Multiverse?

Joseph Campbell?

Is Wayne Dyer next?

If you want to read contemporary thought on sacrifice that actually impacts serious discussions on these matters in the East and West and not at whatever newage bookstore you are shopping at, I would suggest the writing of Rene Girard. Girard focuses on the unique experience of the sacrifice in Temple Judaism, the change in Christianity, and how both differ from "religion" and its literature throughout the world.


I know it goes directly against the Vincent Price persona you have been developing but you know you don't have to be a **** right? And if you disregard Joseph Campbell than it is you who are deprived my brother.

stay blessed,
habte selassie


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For the flagrant personal attack on orthonorm and for the use of a profanity to execute this attack, you are now on Warned status for the next two weeks. I'm sure you can find much more polite ways to express your displeasure with orthonorm. Please look for them.

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« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 06:31:24 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline dzheremi

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2011, 05:19:11 PM »
Quote
perhaps there is far more to this than the occult...

Yes, and perhaps the Saudis actually meant to knight her, and the poor ol' sword-wielder's hand slipped. Who can really say, what with the lack of accurate reporting of news in that country, even from the Saudi state news agency?

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2011, 05:20:43 PM »
You know you don't have to be a prick right? And if you disregard Joseph Campbell than it is you who are deprived my brother.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Tires -> Air

Deprived of utter nonsense yes.

And you seem to want to stir the pot lately . . . kitchen heat leave and all that . . .


Offline orthonorm

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2011, 05:22:36 PM »

I know it goes directly against the Vincent Price persona you have been developing but

You edited your post to add this? Why? Think it might get you out of the clear ad hominem?

Good luck.

Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2011, 05:23:28 PM »
greetings in that Divine and Most Precious name of Our Lord and Savior jesus Christ!


I know it goes directly against the Vincent Price persona you have been developing but

You edited your post to add this? Why? Think it might get you out of the clear ad hominem?

Good luck.


No, actually I did that to accentuate it ;)

You know you don't have to be a prick right? And if you disregard Joseph Campbell than it is you who are deprived my brother.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Tires -> Air

Deprived of utter nonsense yes.

And you seem to want to stir the pot lately . . . kitchen heat leave and all that . . .



Oh I love to stir the pot, but this is a Christian forum, and I haven't been rude or a jerk to anyone about anything, and I have been all apologies, something NOBODY here has ever been with me despite a lot of disrespect cast my way by some sour-sports.  Again, you don't have to be a jerk, but if you'd like to be, I can hang, just expect a bit of light-hearted humor back at your way :)
Quote
perhaps there is far more to this than the occult...

Yes, and perhaps the Saudis actually meant to knight her, and the poor ol' sword-wielder's hand slipped. Who can really say, what with the lack of accurate reporting of news in that country, even from the Saudi state news agency?

What is your insinuation exactly?

stay blessed,
habte selassie




Profanity removed by moderator  -PtA
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 12:35:44 PM by PeterTheAleut »
"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2011, 05:25:46 PM »
Quote
perhaps there is far more to this than the occult...

Yes, and perhaps the Saudis actually meant to knight her, and the poor ol' sword-wielder's hand slipped. Who can really say, what with the lack of accurate reporting of news in that country, even from the Saudi state news agency?

Habte seems say whatever will make his posts seem provocative.

Too bad it is obvious and boring. And too bad for him, I am staring at this monitor for the last 45 minutes with nothing to do but make this clear.

For someone who wants to yank chains, he sure seems upset when someone merely tugs his.

Offline dzheremi

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2011, 05:29:38 PM »
But, Habte, if I tell you exactly then it's not quite an insinuation anymore, is it? Besides, you are an educated man. I'm sure you can get it. I believe in you.

Quote
perhaps there is far more to this than the occult...

Yes, and perhaps the Saudis actually meant to knight her, and the poor ol' sword-wielder's hand slipped. Who can really say, what with the lack of accurate reporting of news in that country, even from the Saudi state news agency?

What is your insinuation exactly?

Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2011, 05:34:03 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

But, Habte, if I tell you exactly then it's not quite an insinuation anymore, is it? Besides, you are an educated man. I'm sure you can get it. I believe in you.









For someone who wants to yank chains, he sure seems upset when someone merely tugs his.



your tone.. its all wrong..

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 05:42:43 PM by HabteSelassie »
"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

Offline biro

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2011, 05:36:17 PM »
And yet another thread devolves.  :-\
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Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2011, 05:40:32 PM »
greetings in that divine and most precious name of our lord and savior jesus christ
And yet another thread devolves.  :-\

not my fault, notice I tried to have a serious discussion about the problems with Witchhunts (like allegorically discussed in the Crucible) and perhaps politics bleeding into this particular incident,  but  instead folks  choice their point of contention to criticize my choice of authors without actually adding substance to the discussion about the Saudi situation.  That's ok, red-herring fallacies may stink, but they rarely are distracting enough to make the initial problems go away :)

Back on target,

so what do folks feel about this exactly? Further how do folks here feel about witch craft accusations and if they are in fact true, and if there may be witches in Saudi Arabia killing people like they are in Uganda, then what exactly is the appropriate solution in the context of Christian justice (i.e. forgiveness vs eye for an eye)

stay blessed,
habte selassie

« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 05:41:16 PM by HabteSelassie »
"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

Offline biro

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2011, 05:45:12 PM »
In point of fact, does Saudi Arabia have a patron saint, under Orthodox belief? After all, they don't seem too welcoming to Church presence, except for chapels on U.S. bases. There were Christians in the area long ago, as I understand- in the Nestorian era. I know the Church believes Nestorians to be heretics (and I don't question that). Do we believe that the Saudis have heavenly protectors who pray for them, despite the current government's strict control on the church? Thanks.
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Offline dzheremi

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2011, 05:59:15 PM »
I don't understand any of your questions, Biro. Can you clarify what you mean by "patron saint, under Orthodox belief"? I am admittedly new to Orthodoxy, but I am under the impression that patron saints (as in "St. So-and-So, the patron saint of Hoboken" or "St. What's-His-Name, patron saint of bee keepers") is a Roman Catholic thing. Like in our church here in Albuquerque there are icons of St. Bishoy and we commemorate him by name as we are named after him (in that sense, he is our patron), but he's not identified with the wider geographical location or the occupations of the laity or what have you.

The most popular heretical sect in Arabia appears to have been the Ebionites, who were Judaizers, not Nestorians. Nestorians, remember, believe in Christ's divinity; they just separate the human and divine natures in a way that is not acceptable. The Ebionites rejected Christ's divinity outright.

Offline biro

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2011, 06:21:35 PM »
There are plenty of Orthodox patron saints. St. Nicholas is the patron saint of Russia. St. Andrew is the patron of Greece. And so on. It's not just in the Roman Catholic Church.

Is there an Orthodox patron saint of Saudi Arabia? It's a pretty simple question.
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Offline dzheremi

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2011, 06:53:00 PM »
Hmm. I did not know that. This might be an area where the EO and the OO are different. I think I'll ask my priest about this next time I see him. I remember asking a friend of mine from church a few months ago about patron saints in Orthodoxy and he said pretty much what I said (St. Bishoy is the patron saint of our particular church, but it's not like RC patron saints for countries or causes), but he was layman, so I'm sure abouna would know better.

Anyway, according to Orthodoxwiki's page on the Church of Antioch, its traditional territories include Saudi Arabia, and its patron saints are its founders, Sts. Peter and Paul. So perhaps Sts. Peter and Paul would be considered the Patron Saints of Saudi Arabia, if that's how this whole thing works in Eastern Orthodoxy...? Hmmm.

There are ethnically Arab saints who might perhaps be considered a more natural fit, like St. Abo of Tiflis [Tbilisi, Georgia], but I don't know of any saints attached to the Arabian peninsula proper. In the time before Islam, there were vibrant churches in some of its now-forgotten corners like Oman and Yemen, but they were mostly missionary territories of the Nestorians, who were considered something like the "Persian National Church" of that time following their East Syrian councils at which they repudiated Byzantine influence as a means of getting the Zoroastrian rulers to stop imprisoning their Patriarchs for their alleged Byzantine sympathies.

Offline biro

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2011, 07:21:36 PM »
Okay. Thank you.
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2011, 08:09:41 PM »
I have a feeling that all of those Orthodox Christians martyred at the hands of Islam are praying quite fervently for Saudi Arabia.
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Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2011, 08:31:12 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I have a feeling that all of those Orthodox Christians martyred at the hands of Islam are praying quite fervently for Saudi Arabia.

Actually they are, and that is precisely what makes them Saints :)

"Pray for your enemies, and bless those who curse you spitefully." Jesus Christ

..and my apologies to Orthonorm, funny as my snaps may have been, I suppose they were in the wrong time and place.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 08:51:25 PM by HabteSelassie »
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Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2011, 09:40:50 PM »
I honestly don't understand how jokes can be made when a woman was beheaded.

I don't care if she was Muslim, a pagan, a witch, or whatever, she was a child of God, and no one had the right to take her life, never mind in such a barbarian manner. 

May the Lord have mercy on her soul, and the souls of her executioners.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2011, 10:09:58 PM »
..and my apologies to Orthonorm, funny as my snaps may have been, I suppose they were in the wrong time and place.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

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Offline dzheremi

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2011, 10:35:48 PM »
Speaking for myself, I did not make a single joke in this thread, and I do very much pray for the soul of this poor woman, and for all the people of Saudi Arabia. I have met more than my fair share of Saudis, and though their reputation as very stern, joyless people was unfortunately confirmed by a few, many more were incredibly kind and humble, curious about the rest of the world, and all in all very pleasant to be around. They deserve better than to live in such subjugation to the perversions of their radical clerics and draconian law code. I have also chatted (via the internet) with at least two who are living secretly as Christians (while outwardly maintaining a facade of submission to Islam), and they have told me that they suspect that there are many more scattered throughout the country (how they know that, I don't know, but I trust that they know their own society and can probably pick up on some very subtle clues). May it be so, and may the killers of this poor woman receive the mercy from God that they have so cruelly denied her in life. Lord have mercy.

Offline biro

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2011, 10:38:26 PM »
Lord have mercy.
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Offline Ionnis

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2011, 10:45:27 PM »
Lord have mercy.
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2011, 01:56:18 AM »
Lord, have mercy.
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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2011, 10:42:14 AM »
I honestly don't understand how jokes can be made when a woman was beheaded.

I don't care if she was Muslim, a pagan, a witch, or whatever, she was a child of God, and no one had the right to take her life, never mind in such a barbarian manner. 

May the Lord have mercy on her soul, and the souls of her executioners.

There are far more barbaric methods of execution.  I think it's the justification in this one that is problematic.
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Offline CoptoGeek

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2011, 11:12:57 AM »
There are plenty of Orthodox patron saints. St. Nicholas is the patron saint of Russia. St. Andrew is the patron of Greece. And so on. It's not just in the Roman Catholic Church.

Is there an Orthodox patron saint of Saudi Arabia? It's a pretty simple question.

Possibly St. Arethas (sp?) and the Holy Martyrs of Najran:


Quote
The martyrs of Najran are remembered in the Christian calendars and are even mentioned in the Surat al-Buruj of the Q'uran 85:4-8, where the persecutions are condemned and the steadfast believers are praised:

...slain were the men of the pit (Al-Ukhdood), the fire abounding in fuel, when they were seated over it, and were themselves witnesses of what they did with the believers. They took revenge on them because they believed in God the All-mighty, the All-laudable...

The stories of the Najran deaths spread quickly to other Christian realms, where they were recounted in terms of heroic martyrdom for the cause of Christ. Their martyrdom led to Najran becoming a major pilgrimage centre that, for a time, rivaled Mecca to the north. The leader of the Arabs of Najran who was executed during the period of persection, Al-Harith, was canonized by the Roman Catholic Church as St. Aretas.[3]

The Martyrdom of the Christians of Najran is celebrated in the Roman Calendar on the 24 October; in the Jacobite Menologies on 31 December; in the Arabic Feasts of the Melkites on 2 October; in the Armenian Synaxarium on the 20 October, and in the Ethiopian Senkesar on November 22.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_community_of_Najran

Quote
St. Arethas or Aretas, leader of the Christian community of Najran in the early 6th century, was executed during the persecution of Christians by the Jewish king Dhu Nuwas in 523.[1][2] He is known from the Acta S. Arethae which exists in two recensions: the earlier and more authentic, which was found by Michel Le Quien(Oriens Christianus, ii. 428) and was subsequently dated as no later than the 7th century; the later, revised by Simeon Metaphrastes, dates from the 10th century.

Feastday: 27 July (Roman Catholic Church) [3] In Eastern Orthodox Church his feastday is 24 October (6 November O.C.).[4]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Aretas
"Be oppressed, rather than the oppressor. Be gentle, rather than zealous. Lay hold of goodness, rather than justice." -St. Isaac of Nineveh

“I returned to the Coptic Orthodox Church with affection, finding in her our tormented and broken history“. -Salama Moussa

Offline dzheremi

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2011, 11:29:45 AM »
Ah, thanks, CoptoGeek! I know the story of the martyrs of Najran in very general terms (told to me by a friend from Saudi who was trying to convince me that Islam really respects Christians), but I never knew any of their names, since I don't think the story in the Qur'an records them.

Offline biro

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2011, 12:18:32 PM »
Thank you, CoptoGeek.
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Offline CoptoGeek

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2011, 01:03:25 PM »
Ah, thanks, CoptoGeek! I know the story of the martyrs of Najran in very general terms (told to me by a friend from Saudi who was trying to convince me that Islam really respects Christians), but I never knew any of their names, since I don't think the story in the Qur'an records them.

Let him tell the Wahhabi nutcases running things in the KSA:

Quote
The Saudi government does not take kindly to this analogy. Part of the site where the Christians are said to have been killed — including charred remnants from the fires — was buried and paved over years ago. In a small museum next to the ruins that is dedicated to the city’s ancient history, there is only one brief reference to the massacre. In part, this is a reflection of the deep hostility among Saudi conservatives toward any artifacts that predate the birth of Islam in the seventh century.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/21/world/middleeast/21saudi.html

In  "Holy women of the Syrian Orient" By Sebastian P. Brock, Susan Ashbrook Harvey there is a translation of St. Simeon of Beth Arsham account of the event. I think a number of the Holy Maryrs names were listed there.

http://books.google.com/books?id=VwvByTL55jIC&lpg=PP1&dq=holy%20women%20of%20the%20syrian%20orient&pg=PA103#v=onepage&q=najran&f=false
"Be oppressed, rather than the oppressor. Be gentle, rather than zealous. Lay hold of goodness, rather than justice." -St. Isaac of Nineveh

“I returned to the Coptic Orthodox Church with affection, finding in her our tormented and broken history“. -Salama Moussa

Offline CoptoGeek

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2011, 01:04:43 PM »
Thank you, CoptoGeek.

It ain't cats playing hockey, but I try  :D
"Be oppressed, rather than the oppressor. Be gentle, rather than zealous. Lay hold of goodness, rather than justice." -St. Isaac of Nineveh

“I returned to the Coptic Orthodox Church with affection, finding in her our tormented and broken history“. -Salama Moussa

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2011, 02:52:26 PM »
The most popular heretical sect in Arabia appears to have been the Ebionites, who were Judaizers, not Nestorians. Nestorians, remember, believe in Christ's divinity; they just separate the human and divine natures in a way that is not acceptable. The Ebionites rejected Christ's divinity outright.

Okay, thank you. I stand corrected.
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Come back my dream into my arms, into my arms

London is drowning, and I live by the river

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Offline CoptoGeek

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2011, 11:31:46 AM »
In point of fact, does Saudi Arabia have a patron saint, under Orthodox belief?

There's also St. Sergius.

St. Sergius was very popular among the pre-Islamic Christian Arabs and this carried on to the Muslim Arabs as well. He was a patron Saint of the Ghassanids, some of whom inhabited the city of his martyrdom renamed Sergiopolis (now called Resafa) by the Emperor Anastasius. It was an important pilgrimage site for the Christian Arabs of the time. Its in modern day Syria, not the KSA, but close enough  :)


E. Key Fowden, The Barbarian Plain: Saint Sergius between Rome and Iran (Berkeley, 1999).

http://books.google.com/books?id=UC5v4mgERxwC&lpg=PP1&dq=The%20Barbarian%20Plain%3A%20Saint%20Sergius%20between%20Rome%20and%20Iran&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false


Irfan Shahid, Byzantium and the Arabs in the Sixth Century, Volume 2, Part 2 (Dumbarton Oaks, 2010)

http://books.google.com/books?id=js30HODt2aYC&lpg=PA70&ots=ZBOZQb7xRk&dq=st%20sergius%20arabs%20islam&pg=PA72#v=onepage&q=st%20sergius%20arabs%20islam&f=false
"Be oppressed, rather than the oppressor. Be gentle, rather than zealous. Lay hold of goodness, rather than justice." -St. Isaac of Nineveh

“I returned to the Coptic Orthodox Church with affection, finding in her our tormented and broken history“. -Salama Moussa

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2011, 11:50:22 AM »
Thank you.   :angel:
My only weakness is, well, never mind

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Come back my dream into my arms, into my arms

London is drowning, and I live by the river

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Re: Saudi woman beheaded on charges of sorcery
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2011, 11:54:05 AM »
I just keep having the same thing in my head: the "small minority" strike again.....

Bunch of barbarians....

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