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stashko
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« on: December 22, 2011, 04:42:35 AM »

Question ? Anyone.....Ethiopian that is..... Grin
I spoke to a Ethiopian Person ,here in Chicago ,He Told Me that the Ethiopian Patriarch that's Located in the U.S. is the Original one, That was before Patriarch Paulous ,that's Presently in Ethiopia...What Happened? how did this change, and the Split .....He didn't speak very good English ,and it was sort of hard to understand everything he said..... Huh
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« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2011, 10:22:48 AM »

Selam to you dear Stashko, I was just thinking about you only yesterday after seeing one of your posts, I am glad to see you around. Smiley

As to the matter you mentioned, I hope you will forgive me, because I too do not have the words to air the internal affair of the church over the world wide web. In these matters, I will follow the advise of the Apostle St. Paul as he demonstrated when he was dealing with the two mature Christian women :Euodia and Syntche in his epistle to the Philippians 4:2,3

 I plead with Euodia and I plead with Syntyche to be of the same mind in the Lord.  Yes, and I ask you, my true companion, help these women since they have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my co-workers, whose names are in the book of life.

Notice how he does not address the detail of what is going on, neither to rally opinions or to convince the error of one over the other. His purpose is to unite them in the Love and the service of the Lord. So he asks for unity in the Lord and for HELP of others to these women ( who were obviously very well known and dedicated Christians) in resolving the issue. Let he that have ears hear!

He also  expresses his outrage at the action of some Christians in how they handled disputes among themselves  in his epistle to the Corinthians. 1 Corinthians 6:1-10

Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? 4 If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? 5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers!

As this is the World Wide Web, this Ethiopian has NO intention of airing such matters to the judgement of Christians and non-christians alike. I see no spiritual edification that can be gained by this, nor will it ever serve in any way in righting whatever wrong has been done, other than increase the spin, and rally opinions towards whatever my view of things might be. Although I am a proud and foolish woman who take myself entirely too seriously, even I am afraid of the Judgment of the Lord and refuse to add a single straw to whatever fire there may be between believers just so my opinion is aired. What is in the hand of the Lord is not mine to meddle with! I rather prostrate myself before the Head and Bridegroom of the Church,sincerely and pray along with the Catholic Orthodox Church, in her Litany of Peace, for the peace of the Church, and Love and Unity among the faithful, saying: Lord have mercy!  Lord have mercy!  Lord have mercy!

May the Peace of the Lord be among us my brother!
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Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
HabteSelassie
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« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2011, 03:08:27 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

This is so ridiculously complicated and emotionally draining that I don't even want to discuss it.  PM another time and perhaps we can chat about these matters then.

The Patriarch in Exile is HH Abune Merkorios, HH resides with the "Synod in Exile" in Seattle with several other exiled Archbishops including HIM Haile Selassie personal priest Abune Melketsedek and Abune Elias. HH Abune Paulos used to be a parish priest here at my Church in Los Angeles, after the 1992 revolution HH was enthroned in Ethiopia, but those left here in exile rejected that decision, and there has been ism and schism perpetually since.  Sometimes it gets really ugly.. name-calling, gossip, lawsuits and legal battles, even violence! 

These matters cut close to home straight the bone for me so I'd rather not discuss it any longer in public.

Synod in Exile

If you just google search "Abune Merkorios" and "Abune Paulos" a lot of things pop up, none I'd necessarily recommend at this time but perhaps enough to shed light on how complicated and ugly its gotten.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2011, 03:10:16 PM »

Sorry- the Synod in Exile link didn't work.  Sad
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« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2011, 12:16:01 AM »

The schism is sad, and I hate to see something like this happen, especially when all these things sound connected to the governmental changes that occurred in Ethiopia.  Whatever the case may be, I hope the schism may end in the end.  I personally wish that we may be more involved to begin a dialogue of unity between the synod in exile and the synod in Ethiopia.  As it stands now, according to His Grace Bishop Youssef, the Coptic Church recognizes Abune Paulos in Ethiopia:


http://www.suscopts.org/q&a/index.php?qid=153&catid=135
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« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2011, 08:12:03 AM »

Sorry- the Synod in Exile link didn't work.  Sad

biro,

It should be http://eotcholysynod.info/home/, I believe.

Many years,

Neil
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« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2011, 06:02:14 PM »

The schism is sad, and I hate to see something like this happen, especially when all these things sound connected to the governmental changes that occurred in Ethiopia.  Whatever the case may be, I hope the schism may end in the end.  I personally wish that we may be more involved to begin a dialogue of unity between the synod in exile and the synod in Ethiopia.  As it stands now, according to His Grace Bishop Youssef, the Coptic Church recognizes Abune Paulos in Ethiopia:


http://www.suscopts.org/q&a/index.php?qid=153&catid=135

Thank's for the Link ,i had some time today to read it....Hopefully eveything  will work out in the end ,By the Grace of God and unity is achieved....Amen Amen

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HabteSelassie
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« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2011, 06:02:32 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

The schism is sad, and I hate to see something like this happen, especially when all these things sound connected to the governmental changes that occurred in Ethiopia.  Whatever the case may be, I hope the schism may end in the end.  I personally wish that we may be more involved to begin a dialogue of unity between the synod in exile and the synod in Ethiopia.  As it stands now, according to His Grace Bishop Youssef, the Coptic Church recognizes Abune Paulos in Ethiopia:


http://www.suscopts.org/q&a/index.php?qid=153&catid=135

Amen Amen! Agreed! And I am quite sure that His Holiness Pope Shenouda III has been involved with these kinds of dialogue and discussions as HH has been involved with mediation between the EOTC and the Eritrean Tewahedo Church, and I pray for more fruits in the future. I fully respect HH the Pope's recognition of HH Abune Paulos, the Popes of Alexandria have always been the kingmakers of Ethiopia, and it is clear that God is continuing to cooperate synergetically in this same way as He always seems to have since Abba Selama and Abba Athanasius Smiley

 The complication is that in reality, both sides of the argument have equally valid, equally real, and equally resolvable mutual grievances and a lot of it individually personality driven.  I feel from my heart (like Sis Hiwot has expressed) that God has sent His Grace to both camps, and this issue is really similar to the internal schisms over regional Bishoprics that have occurred in Ethiopia's past, and just as the Tewahedo Church has been blessed to continue in perpetuity, so too shall she continue!! In fact, we are officially titled the "Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church" precisely to sort of internal schisms and division that plagued our Church until EmperorYohannes IV finally resolved centuries of debate and internal heresies at the 1878 Synod Councils at Aksum and Boru-Meda.  Surely then all those Christians who are under the banner of "Tewahedo" will then continue in God's Grace to manage, however history has shown that we Ethiopian Orthodox Christians are quite deft at the sociopolitical art-form of navigating schism, division, and power-playing real politick.  

Quote
At that time there existed three groups of doctrinal affinities which had been inherited form the past. The Tewahido doctrine was and remains the official teaching of the Church of Ethiopia. It confesses the unity of two natures, divine and human, in the person of Christ, without confusion and without separation: -- hence the name Tewahido which means “unity”. The second group was called Qebat, signifying “unction”, because it laid stress upon the anointing of Christ and not upon the incarnation of the Son. The third group was known as Tsegga Lej (Son of Grace) and supported the teaching of the “Three Births”: eternal birth of the Son from the Father, genetic birth of the Son from the Virgin Mary and birth from the Holy Ghost after the incarnation of Jesus. The Emperor Tewodros forbade the teachings of the Qebat and Tsegga Lej sects and all Christians were called upon to profess the Tewahido teaching. Any who failed to abide by this decree were severely punished, thus his order was generally accepted and theological disputation gradually died out.
http://www.ethiopianorthodox.org/english/ethiopian/perscution.html

Further, this schism is precisely why folks like Bro Gebre Menfes Kiddus and myself sincerely pray for the restoration of the Monarchy, just as Lot watched and prayed for Sodom as those souls hurt his very heart, my own heart is stung by this division, and I pray for the fullness of the Unity of the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church!  The Emperors are the Defenders of the Faith, maintaining the legitimacy and supremacy of the True Orthodox doctrines, and without an Emperor look at what has happened to Ethiopia both governmental and the Church? Personally, I believe that in God's Grace, the Emperors can continue to rally the people, and so I pray earnestly with all my being for such restoration, that in the process the divisions and conflicts within my Mother the Church might be resolved, but just like our earthly mothers, we have to accept the Church flaws and all, and love it with all our hearts AS IT IS, just like we love our mothers with respect, not judgment.  An adult learns not to judge their parents for any perceived mistakes made in parenting because parenting is hard, and parents aren't perfect, and I give this same respect due to my mother the Church, to trust in Her in all matters, even if it is confusing or even hurtful.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 06:03:40 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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Hiwot
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« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2011, 07:49:43 PM »

For all the prayerful good wishes, I say my heartfelt ' AMEN!'
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To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2012, 05:53:49 PM »

For all the prayerful good wishes, I say my heartfelt ' AMEN!'


Amen Smiley
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2012, 06:05:36 PM »

Welcome to the forum!   Smiley
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2012, 07:01:09 PM »

thank you  Grin I should have introduced myself
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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2012, 08:58:12 PM »

Selam to you dear Stashko, I was just thinking about you only yesterday after seeing one of your posts, I am glad to see you around. Smiley

As to the matter you mentioned, I hope you will forgive me, because I too do not have the words to air the internal affair of the church over the world wide web. In these matters, I will follow the advise of the Apostle St. Paul as he demonstrated when he was dealing with the two mature Christian women :Euodia and Syntche in his epistle to the Philippians 4:2,3

 I plead with Euodia and I plead with Syntyche to be of the same mind in the Lord.  Yes, and I ask you, my true companion, help these women since they have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my co-workers, whose names are in the book of life.

Notice how he does not address the detail of what is going on, neither to rally opinions or to convince the error of one over the other. His purpose is to unite them in the Love and the service of the Lord. So he asks for unity in the Lord and for HELP of others to these women ( who were obviously very well known and dedicated Christians) in resolving the issue. Let he that have ears hear!

He also  expresses his outrage at the action of some Christians in how they handled disputes among themselves  in his epistle to the Corinthians. 1 Corinthians 6:1-10

Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? 4 If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? 5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers!

As this is the World Wide Web, this Ethiopian has NO intention of airing such matters to the judgement of Christians and non-christians alike. I see no spiritual edification that can be gained by this, nor will it ever serve in any way in righting whatever wrong has been done, other than increase the spin, and rally opinions towards whatever my view of things might be. Although I am a proud and foolish woman who take myself entirely too seriously, even I am afraid of the Judgment of the Lord and refuse to add a single straw to whatever fire there may be between believers just so my opinion is aired. What is in the hand of the Lord is not mine to meddle with! I rather prostrate myself before the Head and Bridegroom of the Church,sincerely and pray along with the Catholic Orthodox Church, in her Litany of Peace, for the peace of the Church, and Love and Unity among the faithful, saying: Lord have mercy!  Lord have mercy!  Lord have mercy!

May the Peace of the Lord be among us my brother!


Dearest Hiwot,

You have stated all that needs to be said in the perfect Christian spirit. I do not know much about the division, and I choose to remain ignorant so as not to contribute any straw to the fire, as you have so well articulated. I hope others will heed your wisdom, and let us channel our concerns into prayer. Thank you dear sister!


Selam
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