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Author Topic: Church Leaders Debate Self-Defense  (Read 602 times) Average Rating: 0
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Jetavan
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« on: December 21, 2011, 10:01:28 AM »

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CAN [The Christian Association of Nigeria] national president Ayo Oristejafor stated that Christians can no longer continue to watch while aggressors attack them. "I have a responsibility to defend myself and my family," he said. "Christians in the nation have suffered enough.

John Praise, general overseer of Dominion Chapel International Churches in Abuja, has called for churches to raise "young people to defend the church because nobody has the monopoly of violence.

"People say, 'When they slap your cheek, you turn the other.' We have turned both, and they have slapped us. There is nothing else to turn."

By contrast, bishop Wale Oke, national vice president of the Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria's South West region, argues that Christians must resist such temptation.

A rock and a hard place.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 10:02:11 AM by Jetavan » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2011, 11:22:03 AM »

Quote
CAN [The Christian Association of Nigeria] national president Ayo Oristejafor stated that Christians can no longer continue to watch while aggressors attack them. "I have a responsibility to defend myself and my family," he said. "Christians in the nation have suffered enough.

John Praise, general overseer of Dominion Chapel International Churches in Abuja, has called for churches to raise "young people to defend the church because nobody has the monopoly of violence.

"People say, 'When they slap your cheek, you turn the other.' We have turned both, and they have slapped us. There is nothing else to turn."

By contrast, bishop Wale Oke, national vice president of the Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria's South West region, argues that Christians must resist such temptation.

A rock and a hard place.
Im sorry Christians are torn about this. I know Im not. I'll defend my family...period.

On a side note, when did holy rollers get bishops?!?!?!?!???

PP
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« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2011, 11:28:25 AM »

Quote
CAN [The Christian Association of Nigeria] national president Ayo Oristejafor stated that Christians can no longer continue to watch while aggressors attack them. "I have a responsibility to defend myself and my family," he said. "Christians in the nation have suffered enough.

John Praise, general overseer of Dominion Chapel International Churches in Abuja, has called for churches to raise "young people to defend the church because nobody has the monopoly of violence.

"People say, 'When they slap your cheek, you turn the other.' We have turned both, and they have slapped us. There is nothing else to turn."

By contrast, bishop Wale Oke, national vice president of the Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria's South West region, argues that Christians must resist such temptation.

A rock and a hard place.
Im sorry Christians are torn about this. I know Im not. I'll defend my family...period.

On a side note, when did holy rollers get bishops?!?!?!?!???

PP

Being Nigerian I would guess that they are Anglican/Episcopalian of some sort or another (I'm not up to date on my Protestant sects so I may be off on this).  I wonder if this will turn into Biafra Part II?  As far as I know Rolf Steiner and Taffy Williams are still alive, albeit very old.
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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2011, 01:41:59 PM »

Steiner learned his lesson, I think.  He will probably sit this one out.  As to the subject at hand, we have discussed that on this list several times before.  I am clearly on the side of those that will defend myself and my family.

Quote
CAN [The Christian Association of Nigeria] national president Ayo Oristejafor stated that Christians can no longer continue to watch while aggressors attack them. "I have a responsibility to defend myself and my family," he said. "Christians in the nation have suffered enough.

John Praise, general overseer of Dominion Chapel International Churches in Abuja, has called for churches to raise "young people to defend the church because nobody has the monopoly of violence.

"People say, 'When they slap your cheek, you turn the other.' We have turned both, and they have slapped us. There is nothing else to turn."

By contrast, bishop Wale Oke, national vice president of the Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria's South West region, argues that Christians must resist such temptation.

A rock and a hard place.
Im sorry Christians are torn about this. I know Im not. I'll defend my family...period.

On a side note, when did holy rollers get bishops?!?!?!?!???

PP

Being Nigerian I would guess that they are Anglican/Episcopalian of some sort or another (I'm not up to date on my Protestant sects so I may be off on this).  I wonder if this will turn into Biafra Part II?  As far as I know Rolf Steiner and Taffy Williams are still alive, albeit very old.
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« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2011, 02:57:17 PM »

I think many Christians spiritually are torn on this issue.   Christ did disarm the apostles though.....

However, the apostles did not have children either.

I'm absolutely on the side of defending my family.   There's no way I'd let somebody hurt my wife and children.  I personally feel non-resistance is more applicable when it involves ones self.   But that holds great issues as well....

For me if I let somebody kill me, my wife would be left with our 5 kids.... That would not be fair.

But if I was a monk, or somebody without "worldly family responsibilities", I think non-resistance is more realistic.   However, I do believe that any clergy who is not married and does not have "worldly family responsibilities" along with ANY layman without it as well, should practice non-resistance.
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« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2011, 02:58:29 PM »

St. Peter had.
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« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2011, 03:01:24 PM »

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However, the apostles did not have children either
Really? I doubt that.

As for defending myself, I'd do what i've always done. Warn, warn, dispatch.

PP
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« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2011, 03:30:56 PM »

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However, the apostles did not have children either
Really? I doubt that.

As for defending myself, I'd do what i've always done. Warn, warn, dispatch.

PP

Warn, warn, dispatch.  My buddy said that in Iraq the machine-gunners were able to get three warnings, warning shot, and kill shot off in about three seconds.  If the poo hits the oscillating blade that's about all the time you have.  Average gunfight is something like ~5-10', three rounds, two seconds.  I usually consider the fact that NE has a concealed handgun permit and that by State law you can use deadly force if a reasonable person would think that the goblin was intending to rape, murder, grievously wound, or kidnap to be plenty of fair warning.  At the shooting range I do my utmost to get five rounds out of the cylinder in two or three seconds.

But morally we should always pray to the Lord for our safety.  That's why my first recourse is to assume that the earth will open up and swallow my assailant, or that she-bears will rip him limb from limb.  The pistol is backup.   Wink
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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2011, 03:36:31 PM »

Quote
However, the apostles did not have children either
Really? I doubt that.

As for defending myself, I'd do what i've always done. Warn, warn, dispatch.

PP

Warn, warn, dispatch.  My buddy said that in Iraq the machine-gunners were able to get three warnings, warning shot, and kill shot off in about three seconds.  If the poo hits the oscillating blade that's about all the time you have.  Average gunfight is something like ~5-10', three rounds, two seconds.  I usually consider the fact that NE has a concealed handgun permit and that by State law you can use deadly force if a reasonable person would think that the goblin was intending to rape, murder, grievously wound, or kidnap to be plenty of fair warning.  At the shooting range I do my utmost to get five rounds out of the cylinder in two or three seconds.

But morally we should always pray to the Lord for our safety.  That's why my first recourse is to assume that the earth will open up and swallow my assailant, or that she-bears will rip him limb from limb.  The pistol is backup.   Wink
I do have concern for someone assailing me. I want them to turn to God.

I always had a funny thought. My parish is downtown and I thought that one night I'd go outside and get mugged or something, dispatch the guy, then drag him into the Church because its obviously where he'd needed to be  Cheesy


PP
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« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2012, 11:03:00 AM »

St. Peter had.

Was taking the non church tradition approach (sola scriptura).   Of course unless in the first letter of Peter - Mark was actually a SON SON and not a spiritual "father" relationship.

Then there was Petronella the Martyr by tradition.... 

Of course it may just be my weakness, but I'll defend my kids period.  But my children are also young and not grown, but I'd probably defend them grown as well.  They're my children.  I just don't think as a parent I could ever let harm come to them out of non-resistance.  That would work against the VERY core of me. 
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