Author Topic: Canon for the Dead  (Read 2956 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Schultz

  • Christian. Guitarist. Scooterist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,539
  • Scion of the McKeesport Becks.
Canon for the Dead
« on: December 20, 2011, 12:40:03 PM »
Today is the second anniversary of my wife's dearly departed grandfather's death.  She would like to join me tonight (a huge step, as she's still quite disaffected with the Church in general) when I customarily pray the Canon for the Dead for one of our dead relatives/ancestors.  I use the version in the Old Orthodox Prayer Book but forgot to bring it this morning so I could make a copy for her.  Does anyone know of an online version of this canon that I could print out?  It doesn't have to be the same translation as the OOPB uses.

Thanks!
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Offline Punch

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,801
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2011, 01:34:28 PM »
That is the version that I use, also.  You can still pray together.  Have her recite the refrains with you (they are picked up rather quickly).  The fact that she is there and in agreement with what is prayed is what counts.  I have had to do this several times when I was the only one that had the book.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline LizaSymonenko

  • Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
  • Global Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,004
    • St.Mary the Protectress Ukrainian Orthodox Cathedral
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2011, 02:12:22 PM »

Here's the closest thing I could find online:

Pannihida

http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/pannihida_r_e.htm

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline Justin Kissel

  • *
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 32,252
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2011, 02:51:37 PM »
I sometimes use the Akathist for the Repose of the Departed for my wife*, but I don't know about the Canon for the Dead.


*Which I assumed was correct... would the canon be more proper?

Offline Schultz

  • Christian. Guitarist. Scooterist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,539
  • Scion of the McKeesport Becks.
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2011, 03:12:58 PM »
That is the version that I use, also.  You can still pray together.  Have her recite the refrains with you (they are picked up rather quickly).  The fact that she is there and in agreement with what is prayed is what counts.  I have had to do this several times when I was the only one that had the book.

That's probably what we'll end up doing.  It's just nice for everyone to have their own copy, that's all.
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Offline biro

  • Excelsior
  • Site Supporter
  • Hoplitarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,060
  • Chapter one again, here I go again
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2011, 04:36:40 PM »
This site has a list of links to Russian Orthodox services. I hope the links are still active.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/748480.html

Offline Punch

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,801
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2011, 04:47:20 PM »
I sometimes use the Akathist for the Repose of the Departed for my wife*, but I don't know about the Canon for the Dead.


*Which I assumed was correct... would the canon be more proper?

An Akathist is different than a Canon.  There are both forms for the dead, and either one is proper.  It is the fact that you cared enough to take the time for either one that counts.  There is no Typikon for the home.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Gypsy

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • St. Theodosia, Defender of the Holy Icons
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2011, 08:54:18 PM »
Newbie question...

Can these be prayed for the non orthodox departed? 

Thanks!

Offline HandmaidenofGod

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,397
  • O Holy St. Demetrius pray to God for us!
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2011, 09:03:44 PM »
I sometimes use the Akathist for the Repose of the Departed for my wife*, but I don't know about the Canon for the Dead.


*Which I assumed was correct... would the canon be more proper?

I believe it is the sincerity in your heart that God sees, not whether you are praying the Akathist or the Canon. As punch said, there are no propers for home use.

Personally speaking, I find our memorial services to be very cathartic in the grieving process. I find it difficult to grieve when I go to a non-Orthodox funeral service and don't hear Veechnaya Pomyat/Memory Eternal.
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Offline Justin Kissel

  • *
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 32,252
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2011, 05:17:45 PM »
Newbie question...

Can these be prayed for the non orthodox departed? 

Thanks!

Yes, there are even prayers included for those who are not Orthodox, though if you're sensitive to this sort of thing the language might rub you the wrong way. For example:

"We grieve for hardened and wicked blasphemers of Thy Holiness. May Thy saving and gracious will be over them. Forgive, O Lord, those who have died without repentance. Save those who have committed suicide in the darkness of their mind, that the flame of their sinfulness may be extinguished in the ocean of Thy grace. O Lord of unutterable Love, remember Thy servants who have fallen asleep."

Offline Schultz

  • Christian. Guitarist. Scooterist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,539
  • Scion of the McKeesport Becks.
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2011, 05:28:03 PM »
I sometimes use the Akathist for the Repose of the Departed for my wife*, but I don't know about the Canon for the Dead.


*Which I assumed was correct... would the canon be more proper?

I believe it is the sincerity in your heart that God sees, not whether you are praying the Akathist or the Canon. As punch said, there are no propers for home use.

Personally speaking, I find our memorial services to be very cathartic in the grieving process. I find it difficult to grieve when I go to a non-Orthodox funeral service and don't hear Veechnaya Pomyat/Memory Eternal.

Me, too.  Some of my friends find it off-putting, somehow, that I have made prayers for the dead a part of my life.  I actually keep to it more than I do my regular prayer rule; there's just something about the idea of praying for people who don't have anyone to pray for them by name (as is the case with most, if not all, of my ancestors outside of my immediate family) that keeps me coming back. 

Going to a non-Orthodox or non-RC funeral is excruciating for me in so many ways, but the absence of a final exclamation of "Vicnaja pamjat!" or "Eternal rest..." is the worst.

My mother-in-law used to find it a little annoying when I would drift off at the funeral home during the wakes of my wife's family, but once she found out I would disappear into another room to pray the canon for the dead, she really appreciates it, another aspect of this type of prayer that keeps me coming back to it. 
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2011, 05:44:12 PM »
I sometimes use the Akathist for the Repose of the Departed for my wife*, but I don't know about the Canon for the Dead.


*Which I assumed was correct... would the canon be more proper?

I believe it is the sincerity in your heart that God sees, not whether you are praying the Akathist or the Canon. As punch said, there are no propers for home use.

Personally speaking, I find our memorial services to be very cathartic in the grieving process. I find it difficult to grieve when I go to a non-Orthodox funeral service and don't hear Veechnaya Pomyat/Memory Eternal.

Me, too.  Some of my friends find it off-putting, somehow, that I have made prayers for the dead a part of my life.  I actually keep to it more than I do my regular prayer rule; there's just something about the idea of praying for people who don't have anyone to pray for them by name (as is the case with most, if not all, of my ancestors outside of my immediate family) that keeps me coming back. 

Going to a non-Orthodox or non-RC funeral is excruciating for me in so many ways, but the absence of a final exclamation of "Vicnaja pamjat!" or "Eternal rest..." is the worst.

My mother-in-law used to find it a little annoying when I would drift off at the funeral home during the wakes of my wife's family, but once she found out I would disappear into another room to pray the canon for the dead, she really appreciates it, another aspect of this type of prayer that keeps me coming back to it. 


"Be merciful; pray for the departed," St. John Maximovitch of San Francisco said.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Gypsy

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • St. Theodosia, Defender of the Holy Icons
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2011, 12:18:51 AM »
Thank you Asteriktos for answering my question!
The language actually doesn't bother me....

I also love praying for the departed, love cemeteries for that reason...will now know what to do at the next funeral I have to attend...thanks Shultz


Offline Irish Hermit

  • Kibernetski Kaludjer
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,991
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2011, 12:41:37 AM »

Me, too.  Some of my friends find it off-putting, somehow, that I have made prayers for the dead a part of my life.  I actually keep to it more than I do my regular prayer rule; there's just something about the idea of praying for people who don't have anyone to pray for them by name (as is the case with most, if not all, of my ancestors outside of my immediate family) that keeps me coming back. 

Going to a non-Orthodox or non-RC funeral is excruciating for me in so many ways, but the absence of a final exclamation of "Vicnaja pamjat!" or "Eternal rest..." is the worst.

My mother-in-law used to find it a little annoying when I would drift off at the funeral home during the wakes of my wife's family, but once she found out I would disappear into another room to pray the canon for the dead, she really appreciates it, another aspect of this type of prayer that keeps me coming back to it. 


I'm with you all the way, Schultz.  Every day and sometimes twice a day I'll stand in front of the icons and do a short requiem service.  Praying for the dead is an essential part of my life.


From the Rule of Saint Columba.  6th century.

Be fervent in singing the office for the dead.

Pray for the departed as if each were a particular friend of thine
.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,059
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2011, 11:57:00 PM »
My priest recommended tonight at Vespers that I pray the Akathist which I did, but last night I prayed the Canon for a deceased person from the Old Orthodox Prayer Book and found it to be more personal as there are many more opportunities to mention my grandmother's name, but I had a suspicion that the canon is only for the Orthodox.

So the canon is fine to pray for the non-Orthodox? I only ask because there are priest's part indicated, which to me signifies that it is for the Orthodox.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 11:58:39 PM by Alveus Lacuna »

Offline Benjamin the Red

  • Recovering Calvinist
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,601
  • Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2012, 08:46:26 PM »
My priest recommended tonight at Vespers that I pray the Akathist which I did, but last night I prayed the Canon for a deceased person from the Old Orthodox Prayer Book and found it to be more personal as there are many more opportunities to mention my grandmother's name, but I had a suspicion that the canon is only for the Orthodox.

So the canon is fine to pray for the non-Orthodox? I only ask because there are priest's part indicated, which to me signifies that it is for the Orthodox.

BUMP

I've also spent a lot of time trying to find this canon for the dead online (I do not own an Old Orthodox Prayer Book), so I'd like to remind folks reading here that it'd be nice to find! I'll keep looking and definitely share if I find it! ;D
"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy

Offline IXOYE

  • Site Supporter
  • OC.net guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,032
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2012, 09:44:30 PM »
I have a copy of the Old Rite Canon For The Dead.  Anyone wanting it can pm me your email address.  It is not the exact  same one as in the Old Rite Prayer Book.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 09:46:52 PM by IXOYE »

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2012, 03:29:42 PM »
My priest recommended tonight at Vespers that I pray the Akathist which I did, but last night I prayed the Canon for a deceased person from the Old Orthodox Prayer Book and found it to be more personal as there are many more opportunities to mention my grandmother's name, but I had a suspicion that the canon is only for the Orthodox.

So the canon is fine to pray for the non-Orthodox? I only ask because there are priest's part indicated, which to me signifies that it is for the Orthodox.

Praying at home for the non-Orthodox departed, there are a number of prayers that can be used. Personally, I avoid using prayers for the Orthodox, mostly because some things in them refer to Orthodox communicants in particular. The exception is the Akathist for the Departed, which can be prayed for everyone. I use the canon to St. Warus for the non-Orthodox departed. It can also be used by a priest in church and in it he can name the non-Orthodox. Technically, it's the only service in which non-Orthodox departed may be remembered by name.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline JamesRottnek

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,123
  • I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2012, 05:15:37 PM »
My priest recommended tonight at Vespers that I pray the Akathist which I did, but last night I prayed the Canon for a deceased person from the Old Orthodox Prayer Book and found it to be more personal as there are many more opportunities to mention my grandmother's name, but I had a suspicion that the canon is only for the Orthodox.

So the canon is fine to pray for the non-Orthodox? I only ask because there are priest's part indicated, which to me signifies that it is for the Orthodox.

Praying at home for the non-Orthodox departed, there are a number of prayers that can be used. Personally, I avoid using prayers for the Orthodox, mostly because some things in them refer to Orthodox communicants in particular. The exception is the Akathist for the Departed, which can be prayed for everyone. I use the canon to St. Warus for the non-Orthodox departed. It can also be used by a priest in church and in it he can name the non-Orthodox. Technically, it's the only service in which non-Orthodox departed may be remembered by name.

Do you have more information on St. Warus whom I've never heard of's canon?
I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011

Offline genesisone

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,684
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antioch
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2012, 05:30:56 PM »

Do you have more information on St. Warus whom I've never heard of's canon?
Try a search for "St. Varus". You should get lots of hits.

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2012, 05:32:56 PM »
My priest recommended tonight at Vespers that I pray the Akathist which I did, but last night I prayed the Canon for a deceased person from the Old Orthodox Prayer Book and found it to be more personal as there are many more opportunities to mention my grandmother's name, but I had a suspicion that the canon is only for the Orthodox.

So the canon is fine to pray for the non-Orthodox? I only ask because there are priest's part indicated, which to me signifies that it is for the Orthodox.

Praying at home for the non-Orthodox departed, there are a number of prayers that can be used. Personally, I avoid using prayers for the Orthodox, mostly because some things in them refer to Orthodox communicants in particular. The exception is the Akathist for the Departed, which can be prayed for everyone. I use the canon to St. Warus for the non-Orthodox departed. It can also be used by a priest in church and in it he can name the non-Orthodox. Technically, it's the only service in which non-Orthodox departed may be remembered by name.

Do you have more information on St. Warus whom I've never heard of's canon?

The canon text: www.stvladimiraami.org/sheetmusic/canonstvarus.pdf
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline JamesRottnek

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,123
  • I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine
Re: Canon for the Dead
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2012, 08:19:46 PM »
Thank you
I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011