Author Topic: Adopt a man from Hell  (Read 1882 times)

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Offline pasadi97

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Adopt a man from Hell
« on: December 18, 2011, 01:19:37 AM »
In Hell there are people without the possibility of doing good, of prayer. Adopt such a person and pray for him so that he can be baptized, communed and confessed if necessary and that his prayer to be heard by God, give alms in his name, and things like that including mentioning at Holy Liturgy. Amen.

Since everything that you do comes back at you, if you get to jail, God will find a way to give you back the good deed you will do.
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Offline Ebor

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2011, 01:26:12 AM »
Ummmmm   ???

The Mormons have baptism of those who have died.

Does anyone else here on the forum recognize this as in anyway EO? 

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Offline John Ward

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2011, 01:31:53 AM »
As usual, I'm confused by one of pasadi97's posts.

Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2011, 01:37:18 AM »
Ummmmm   ???

The Mormons have baptism of those who have died.

Does anyone else here on the forum recognize this as in anyway EO? 



Honestly, Ebor? I have no real idea what Pasadi97 is talking about.  ???
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2011, 01:40:47 AM »
Yeah, I expect someone in the OCA to speak American way better.

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2011, 03:06:40 AM »
what about women in hell?

Offline Gamliel

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2011, 03:18:02 AM »
 ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2011, 03:21:15 AM »
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

i think you missed one...here you can have mine ???
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 03:21:43 AM by Ortho_cat »

Offline Gamliel

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2011, 03:22:56 AM »
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 03:23:24 AM by Gamliel »

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2011, 05:35:14 AM »
pasadi as usual is looking at things kind of legalistically but I think the idea of praying for some random deceased person is a good idea. It's what monastics do, isn't it?

I actually knew an Orthodox guy who even prayed for Hitler. I don't know if I could do that, honestly.

Offline mike

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2011, 08:28:42 AM »
In Hell there are people without the possibility of doing good, of prayer. Adopt such a person and pray for him so that he can be baptized, communed and confessed if necessary and that his prayer to be heard by God, give alms in his name, and things like that including mentioning at Holy Liturgy. Amen.

Since everything that you do comes back at you, if you get to jail, God will find a way to give you back the good deed you will do.

The Church clearly teaches that there are no sacraments for the dead. We are not Mormons.
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Offline arnI

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2011, 09:03:22 AM »
Seems to me that he is saying to pray for someone before this life on earth is ended. In other words, I understood OP as saying to adopt someone that seems destined for eternal damnation.
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2011, 09:33:15 AM »
Exactly. I refuse to believe that all muslims, jews, protestants that renounced baptism or even other people, Protestant children that died before being baptized because of adoption of falsehood instead of truth , that all are Hitler.

And in Eastern Orthodox Christianity, the most powerful religion on Earth we can help them dearly.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 09:34:12 AM by pasadi97 »
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Offline biro

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2011, 09:37:36 AM »
I'm glad you want us to pray for those in danger or for those who are departed, if that is what you mean.

Offline Ebor

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2011, 11:29:23 AM »
Seems to me that he is saying to pray for someone before this life on earth is ended. In other words, I understood OP as saying to adopt someone that seems destined for eternal damnation.

It read to me to be about people who are already dead and that they were get the sacraments somehow then

And the statement that Protestants "renounced baptism" is not true unless the OP is thinking of some particular group in which case it would be helpful if that were explained. 



« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 11:32:06 AM by Ebor »
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2011, 11:32:25 AM »
Seems to me that he is saying to pray for someone before this life on earth is ended. In other words, I understood OP as saying to adopt someone that seems destined for eternal damnation.

It read to me to be about people who are already dead....
...already dead in their sins?
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Offline Ebor

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2011, 11:34:15 AM »
pasadi as usual is looking at things kind of legalistically but I think the idea of praying for some random deceased person is a good idea. It's what monastics do, isn't it?

I actually knew an Orthodox guy who even prayed for Hitler. I don't know if I could do that, honestly.

Anglicans also have prayers for those who have passed away, fyi, so that idea is not strange.  It's the posthumous sacraments that are something that I have not come across at all in many years of knowing people who are EO so therefore I had/have strong doubts
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 11:35:14 AM by Ebor »
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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2011, 02:55:36 PM »
pasadi as usual is looking at things kind of legalistically but I think the idea of praying for some random deceased person is a good idea. It's what monastics do, isn't it?

I actually knew an Orthodox guy who even prayed for Hitler. I don't know if I could do that, honestly.

Anglicans also have prayers for those who have passed away, fyi, so that idea is not strange.  It's the posthumous sacraments that are something that I have not come across at all in many years of knowing people who are EO so therefore I had/have strong doubts

such is strictly forbidden.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2011, 04:00:32 PM »
Why you all don't get pasadi's point, I really don't know.

No sarcasm. We pray for the departed regardless of their standing in the Church.

Pasadi I think has quite an endearing and touching way, and you could almost say parabolic at times, of expressing truths held by Orthodoxy.

How this is not understood by most, I have no idea.

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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2011, 05:29:06 PM »
Ummmmm   ???

The Mormons have baptism of those who have died.

Does anyone else here on the forum recognize this as in anyway EO? 
He is not talking about sacraments done for the dead. Pasadi is saying that, through the prayers of the church, Christ the Great High Priest has mercy on the departed and can bring them into His flock even after the first death, if He so chooses.

Which is definitely EO.
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Offline J.M.C

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2011, 05:35:52 PM »
Ummmmm   ???

The Mormons have baptism of those who have died.

Does anyone else here on the forum recognize this as in anyway EO?  
He is not talking about sacraments done for the dead  Pasadi is saying that, through the prayers of the church, Christ the Great High Priest has mercy on the departed and can bring them into His flock even after the first death, if He so chooses.

Which is definitely EO.

That's what I understood too (with regards to baptism; services for the dead are common too, and remembrance of the dead is included in Divine Liturgy, so that Sacrament can be said to be "done for the dead"). And giving alms in the name of the dead is an Orthodox practice too - usually to the Church but also to the poor and needy. There is the baking of St Phanourios bread, given to the poor, which is done in honour of his unbelieving mother.

http://www.orthodox.net/recipes/st-phanourios-story-prayer-to-bread-recipes.html
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 05:38:40 PM by J.M.C »
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2011, 06:00:36 PM »
Adpot a man from Hell on the Airbus. Passport to Heaven required.
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2011, 06:44:44 PM »
Ummmmm   ???

The Mormons have baptism of those who have died.

Does anyone else here on the forum recognize this as in anyway EO? 
He is not talking about sacraments done for the dead. Pasadi is saying that, through the prayers of the church, Christ the Great High Priest has mercy on the departed and can bring them into His flock even after the first death, if He so chooses.

Which is definitely EO.

If that is what he means, I definitely get it and applaud it. But I do have trouble with his terminology in most of his posts. Perhaps, it's a British English/American English thing.  ;)
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2011, 06:49:26 PM »
Ummmmm   ???

The Mormons have baptism of those who have died.

Does anyone else here on the forum recognize this as in anyway EO? 
He is not talking about sacraments done for the dead. Pasadi is saying that, through the prayers of the church, Christ the Great High Priest has mercy on the departed and can bring them into His flock even after the first death, if He so chooses.

Which is definitely EO.

If that is what he means, I definitely get it and applaud it. But I do have trouble with his terminology in most of his posts. Perhaps, it's a British English/American English thing.  ;)

I think it might be a Pasadi / English thing. I love Pasadi, thus I have learned to read it fluently.
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2011, 06:55:09 PM »
Game rules:
1.Your prayers are heard as long as you live. Once one dies and if he goes to Hell then he can not do much about himself and his condition depending a lot on people on Earth
2.Until the last judgement, God has mercy and people can be saved from Hell, even the people that are now temporaly in Hell. The judgement until last judgement is temporary and can be overturned either way either by the effects of one's deeds in the future or by effect of humanity or other living people that can pray for these departed. For example if anyone went to Hell however he did built a well and people could get water for free even after his death, he can be saved by the efects of this deed even if at the partciular judgement he was sent to Hell. Or if anyobody prays for somebody in Hell, the one in Hell may be saved. For example one may pray to Jesus to baptize and commune and confess somebody from Hell so the one in Hell may be saved.
3.People on Earth can pray for people in Hell in their names and these prayers are like the people in Hell did pray. After Jesus did come people can pray for departed people and can ask God to see them and their condition and these prayers are answered.
4.Nobody should be left behind.
5.Things can be transfered in after life by giving them to the poor. Also things can be give to the poor in the name of departed and will count as the departed gave them. The story abpout St Phanorious mother really makes the point and I did like it http://www.orthodox.net/recipes/st-phanourios-story-prayer-to-bread-recipes.html  There are other stories as well that can teach us a bunch.
6.Some Eastern Orthodox people can see and speak with God from this life so they can ask about this issue.
7.The law of God say that whatever you do to your neighbour this is what you get so if you fight for a man in prison Hell, if in prison yourself, you can get help on the account of the law.
8.The things we don't know, we don't know so through prayer we may find FROM GOD important info that can save these in Hell

Q: KNOWING ABOVE RULES, and using game theory and other sciences and mostly prayers and asking God, how can we maximize the number of people, sick angels saved even from future, present and past. Or from other Creations.

Anyone who could solve this problem, would be great in regards with Heavens and after death.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 07:09:28 PM by pasadi97 »
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2011, 06:55:57 PM »
Ummmmm   ???

The Mormons have baptism of those who have died.

Does anyone else here on the forum recognize this as in anyway EO? 
He is not talking about sacraments done for the dead. Pasadi is saying that, through the prayers of the church, Christ the Great High Priest has mercy on the departed and can bring them into His flock even after the first death, if He so chooses.

Which is definitely EO.

If that is what he means, I definitely get it and applaud it. But I do have trouble with his terminology in most of his posts. Perhaps, it's a British English/American English thing.  ;)

I think it might be a Pasadi / English thing. I love Pasadi, thus I have learned to read it fluently.

Yeah, he seems a sweet guy, but as confusing to me as all heck!  :laugh: Clearly, I need to think more laterally!

Sorry, that I didn't get your point, Pasadi!  :-[
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Offline biro

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2011, 06:56:29 PM »
Adpot a man from Hell on the Airbus. Passport to Heaven required.

How much per day is the long-term parking lot?

Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2011, 07:04:07 PM »
Q: using game theory and other sciences and mostly prayers and asking God, how can we maximize the number of people saved even from future, present and past.


Well, I have this, probably silly to a lot of people, habit of praying for everyone in history as I come across them in books, documentaries, films. It's kind of automatic, but not without honest feeling, I believe.

When touring museums, archaeological sites, I often pray for the people who owned the objects on display, or lived in the places I visit. Weird to some, I'm sure, but this is something I have done since converting to Orthodoxy.

And if I hear someone has died on the news, I'll do the same thing. I might do it the once, or I might continue it for a few times. For instance, Christopher Hitchens has been much on my mind the past few days, so I have kind of offered thoughts focused on him as prayers, if that makes sense. A bit of Riddikulus/English there.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 07:05:02 PM by Riddikulus »
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2011, 07:58:40 PM »
Thank you guys for your support. May God bless everyone.

About praying for everyone there is a story. An old priest was praying for everyone and as this was the custom on his life, he was going to a public bath. There he was praying for former owner of that bath, at his time dead, that donated the bath for public use.

Every time he was praying, a young man would come and serve him. He felt do pleased that he asked this young man how he could repay him and if giving him some food would help. The young man responded he is from hell and he needs no drink or food and that he wants to ask for 40 Holy liturgies to be performed for his soul and that this would help him go to Heaven. The old priest did so and the young man appeared to him in his way to Heaven.
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Offline FountainPen

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2011, 08:14:26 PM »
Adpot a man from Hell on the Airbus. Passport to Heaven required.

Jesus is the passport -- all you need is wings



#humour alert
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 08:15:16 PM by FountainPen »
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Offline biro

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2011, 08:33:19 PM »
Dingdingding! We have a winner.  :) :angel:

Offline Kaste

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2011, 08:54:15 PM »
Quote
2.Until the last judgement, God has mercy and people can be saved from Hell, even the people that are now temporaly in Hell. The judgement until last judgement is temporary and can be overturned either way either by the effects of one's deeds in the future or by effect of humanity or other living people that can pray for these departed. For example if anyone went to Hell however he did built a well and people could get water for free even after his death, he can be saved by the efects of this deed even if at the partciular judgement he was sent to Hell. Or if anyobody prays for somebody in Hell, the one in Hell may be saved. For example one may pray to Jesus to baptize and commune and confess somebody from Hell so the one in Hell may be saved.

Where does Orthodoxy teach Hell is only temporary? 

Does not Orthodoxy state that the first judgment immediately after death is eternal? 

K

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2011, 08:56:09 PM »
Quote
2.Until the last judgement, God has mercy and people can be saved from Hell, even the people that are now temporaly in Hell. The judgement until last judgement is temporary and can be overturned either way either by the effects of one's deeds in the future or by effect of humanity or other living people that can pray for these departed. For example if anyone went to Hell however he did built a well and people could get water for free even after his death, he can be saved by the efects of this deed even if at the partciular judgement he was sent to Hell. Or if anyobody prays for somebody in Hell, the one in Hell may be saved. For example one may pray to Jesus to baptize and commune and confess somebody from Hell so the one in Hell may be saved.

Where does Orthodoxy teach Hell is only temporary? 

Does not Orthodoxy state that the first judgment immediately after death is eternal? 

K

No. YMMV.
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Offline Dyhn

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2011, 09:02:13 PM »
Fountain Pen

People have been known to jump from great heights convinced they can fly because they have the wings only.

As I've discovered, the wings only come with.

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Offline FountainPen

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2011, 04:17:02 AM »
Fountain Pen

People have been known to jump from great heights convinced they can fly because they have the wings only.

As I've discovered, the wings only come with.

~ Dyhn :~)

The Holy Spirit is not only active within the confines of the complete church -- and this is off topic.
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Offline Anastasia1

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2011, 07:30:04 AM »
Is it too late to pray for Kim Jong Il?
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2011, 08:45:15 AM »
Adpot a man from Hell on the Airbus. Passport to Heaven required.

Jesus is the passport -- all you need is wings



#humour alert

It that a pasdaistic parable? Paging orthonorm...
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #37 on: December 19, 2011, 10:33:47 AM »
Is it too late to pray for Kim Jong Il?
Might be. It's between him and God. It might be too late to pray for some who are still with us. But it's good to anyway, since you never know.

We do know for sure though, that if there is any hope left for him God will make it happen.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 10:36:19 AM by Volnutt »

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Adopt a man from Hell
« Reply #38 on: December 19, 2011, 01:42:56 PM »
Quote
2.Until the last judgement, God has mercy and people can be saved from Hell, even the people that are now temporaly in Hell. The judgement until last judgement is temporary and can be overturned either way either by the effects of one's deeds in the future or by effect of humanity or other living people that can pray for these departed. For example if anyone went to Hell however he did built a well and people could get water for free even after his death, he can be saved by the efects of this deed even if at the partciular judgement he was sent to Hell. Or if anyobody prays for somebody in Hell, the one in Hell may be saved. For example one may pray to Jesus to baptize and commune and confess somebody from Hell so the one in Hell may be saved.

Where does Orthodoxy teach Hell is only temporary? 

Does not Orthodoxy state that the first judgment immediately after death is eternal? 

K

nope its called particular judgment, and you get a forestate of your final state. the final judgment is where the deal is sealed.