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Author Topic: Is Islam Really A Peaceful Religion?  (Read 7158 times) Average Rating: 0
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Jennifer
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« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2004, 04:19:36 PM »

First, I don't think it's been conclusively proven that Russia is a "predominately Christian country."  I found some statistics that indicate Russia is overwhelmingly secular and others have posted contrary statistics.  

Stavro, you make a pretty serious charge here.  I'd like to know how familiar you with what is said on the "streets" of the Islamic world.  How can you be so certain that kind of behavior is not "an exception" in the Islamic world?  

I'm sure that it's also incorrect to say that Muslims do not perpetrate terrorist acts against other Muslims.  

I also think it's incorrect to say that what happened in Beslan is about faith "big time."  What happened in Beslan is about Russia and Chechnya.  

I also find it interesting to see what is going on in Chechnya as "Russia's struggle against Islamic terrorists."  It's far more complex than that.  

Pedro, you are certainly correct to say this isn't a "faith versus faith" issue.  The idea of Russia being "Holy Rus" fighting the "good fight" against the infidel Muslims is plain silly.  BTW, I also think it's "plain silly" to suggest that "Holy USA" is fighting the "good fight" against the infidel Muslims.  

BTW, I think it also needs to be mentioned (again, I mentioned it earlier but it was ignored) that Christians have carried out these kinds of atrocities against non-Christians in the name of Christianity.  Pogroms are terrorist acts.  

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« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2004, 04:57:01 PM »

Quote
First, I don't think it's been conclusively proven that Russia is a "predominately Christian country."  I found some statistics that indicate Russia is overwhelmingly secular and others have posted contrary statistics.  

Uhhhm Jen, who cares what the exact percentage is. The Russians are much better off than the western europeans are anyway. Isn't this thread supposed to be about radical islam???

Unless the majority of peaceful muslims keep thier silence against the poison branch of islam which are the islamo - fascist, we will continue to see this garbage for many years to come. We must stamp these thugs out by brute force only, because they will only respond by violence itself. There is no such thing as "dialague" to these neo nazi's in headscarfs because to them we are all infedels that derserve conversion or death.

Out of the 17 world conflicts, all are caused by muslim aggression. For the "smart" liberals out there, no this has nothing to do with America or Isreal also. Tell that to the eastern indians who have been fighting these thugs for the last thousand years. Tell that to the Serbians, who have seen thier churches burned to the ground while the U.N sat by & watched. Tell that to the Sudanese, who only want to live in peace.

Yes, christianity has had it's bad periods & villians also, but the difference between christianity & islam is that christiantiy has always had the "seed" of reformation within it, able to reform because it is the true faith. I hope one day that the sleeping giant of moderate muslims will wipe these thugs from the face of the earth, but I doubt it will ever happen. I fear that the "poison branch" of islam will become the "poisoned branch" of islam & slowly effect the whole tree.
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« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2004, 05:21:59 PM »

Just some thoughts from an OCnet newbie:

1) That muslim cleric in the UK should be thrown in chains and immediately deported by the Home Office...I thought you weren't supposed to have all the rights that we Americans do in a Constitutional Monarchy!!!!
2) Muslims have a long history of thirst for the blood of Christian children...doesn't anyone remember the Armenian Genocide by the Turks in the 1920's???  How about after the Fall of Constantinople when the children of the Balkaans were forced into being Janisaries or even sexual playthings of the Sultans (female AND male?)!
3) Jennifer, remember, not everyone that says "Lord, Lord" is a Christian or will enter the kingdom of God.  Christ tells us himself we will know them by their works.  And Pogroms and such are NOT the works of God, so please don't say Christians do "such and such".  
4) "So-Called" Christians also descrated the altars of Constantinople in the Fourth Crusade by having harlots dance on them and copulating on them and then stripping the gold right out of the churches.  

Real Christians that partake of the Body and Blood of Christ do not do such horrible things!!!

If the West wasn't so pre-occupied with the Gold of Constantinople we would probably not be in this mess right now.  The Islamic problem may have been taken care of.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2004, 05:30:09 PM by Isapostolos » Logged

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« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2004, 05:38:29 PM »

Unless the majority of peaceful muslims keep thier silence against the poison branch of islam which are the islamo - fascist, we will continue to see this garbage for many years to come.

This I do agree with...it boggles my mind to no end that genuinely peaceful Palestinians are so silent when it comes to Hamas, recent events as an example...of course, it's true that, were they to speak out, they themselves would be terrorized by Hamas as "traitors"....

Quote
Out of the 17 world conflicts, all are caused by muslim aggression.


Including the Ecuadorian/Peruvian border wars?
Including the Central American civil unrest?
There are other conflicts in the world....
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Jennifer
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« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2004, 07:08:29 PM »

Just some thoughts from an OCnet newbie:


3) Jennifer, remember, not everyone that says "Lord, Lord" is a Christian or will enter the kingdom of God.  Christ tells us himself we will know them by their works.  And Pogroms and such are NOT the works of God, so please don't say Christians do "such and such".  
4) "So-Called" Christians also descrated the altars of Constantinople in the Fourth Crusade by having harlots dance on them and copulating on them and then stripping the gold right out of the churches.  

Real Christians that partake of the Body and Blood of Christ do not do such horrible things!!!

If the West wasn't so pre-occupied with the Gold of Constantinople we would probably not be in this mess right now.  The Islamic problem may have been taken care of.


What was originally written was that things like the Beslan tragedy wouldn't happen in a "predominately Christian country."  Obviously that's not true.  Are we going to play the game of denying that everyone who behaves in a way that we don't like is not a Christian?  Don't you see that the Muslims can play the same game?  They'll simply say "the Beslan terrorists aren't Muslim."  

The unpleasant fact is that Christians are just as capable of barbaric behavior as anyone else.  They're "wrong" about what Christianity is.  I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise.  But we cannot deny that Christians have done terrible things in the past.  

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« Reply #50 on: September 07, 2004, 07:14:29 PM »

Uhhhm Jen, who cares what the exact percentage is. The Russians are much better off than the western europeans are anyway. Isn't this thread supposed to be about radical islam???

Unless the majority of peaceful muslims keep thier silence against the poison branch of islam which are the islamo - fascist, we will continue to see this garbage for many years to come. We must stamp these thugs out by brute force only, because they will only respond by violence itself. There is no such thing as "dialague" to these neo nazi's in headscarfs because to them we are all infedels that derserve conversion or death.

Out of the 17 world conflicts, all are caused by muslim aggression. For the "smart" liberals out there, no this has nothing to do with America or Isreal also. Tell that to the eastern indians who have been fighting these thugs for the last thousand years. Tell that to the Serbians, who have seen thier churches burned to the ground while the U.N sat by & watched. Tell that to the Sudanese, who only want to live in peace.

Yes, christianity has had it's bad periods & villians also, but the difference between christianity & islam is that christiantiy has always had the "seed" of reformation within it, able to reform because it is the true faith. I hope one day that the sleeping giant of moderate muslims will wipe these thugs from the face of the earth, but I doubt it will ever happen. I fear that the "poison branch" of islam will become the "poisoned branch" of islam & slowly effect the whole tree.  

Ummm, Nacho what do "liberals" (smart or otherwise) have to do with this discussion?  

I think history teaches us that Islam is a "bad idea."  It's a kind of perverted philosophy that brings out the worst in people.  However, it doesn't destroy the humanity of its adherents.  This is why I don't believe that every Muslim will become "radical."  

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« Reply #51 on: September 07, 2004, 08:12:14 PM »

Jennifer writes:

[Okay, let me see if I can get this straight? Are you seriously suggesting that Russia is a predominately Christian country?

Is this is even a matter of debate?]

-----------------

REPLY-

Yes I am saying that Russia is a Christian country.  Going by what you give as examples (Ref: http://www.roca.org/OA/122/122a.htmQuote:  "Only 29 percent of the population hold the Christian faith).

 Then you would also have to say that most of western europe are no longer christain countries.  A 29% church attendance is higher than than both England and France for instance.

While Christianity is dying in the west where there is a shortage of priests, nuns, and monks and empty churches are closing daily the opposite is true in Russia where there is definitely a revival of Orthodox Christianity -

Current statistics from the Moscow Patriarchate -

THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH TODAY
The Russian Orthodox Church is the largest religious association in our country. At present it has 128 dioceses in various regions of Russia and in far and near abroad. Since 1990 the Russian Church has been led by His holiness Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow and All Russia,. the 15th patriarch in its history, who governs together with the Holy Synod. In the Russian Orthodox Church today there are 128 dioceses (for comparison, there were 67 diocese in 1989), 19000 parishes (6893 in 1988), and nearly 480 monasteries (18 in 1980). These figures point vividly to an all-round revival of church life taking place under the primatial leadership of His Holiness Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow and All Russia. The pastoral service is carried out by 150 bishops, 17500 priests and 2300 deacons. The network of educational Orthodox institutions is directed by the Education Committee. At present there are 5 theological academies (there were 2 in 1991), 26 seminaries (there were 3 in 1988), and 29 pre-seminaries, which did not exist at all till the 90s. There are two Orthodox universities, a Theological Institute, a women's pre-seminary, and 28 icon-painting schools. The total number of theological students including those of the correspondence departments is about 6000 people. Educational institutions have been established to develop religious education among the laity. This important work is coordinated by the Department for Religious Education and Catechism. There is a variety of forms in which religious education and catechization of lay people are carried out, including Sunday schools at churches, circles for adults, groups for preparing adults for baptism, Orthodox kindergartens, Orthodox groups in state-run kindergartens, Orthodox gymnasia, schools, lyceums, and Orthodox courses for teachers of catechism. Sunday school has been the most popular form of catechism. In the field of charity the work is carried out on all-church level through the Department for Church Charity and Social Service. It is necessary to mention in the first place a number of successfully functioning medical programs. A special mention should be made of the Moscow Patriarchate's Central Hospital of St. Alexis the Metropolitan of Moscow. In the situation where healthcare is becoming commercial, this medical institution is one of the few clinics in Moscow which provide free medical check-up and treatment. A psychiatric service has been set up at the Mental Health Center of the Russian Academy of Medical Sciences. It gives free help to persons sent by parishes in the Moscow diocese. These are only a few examples of concrete work carried out by the above-mentioned Department. In December 1990 the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church decided to establish a church youth organization. This decision led to the First Congress of Orthodox Youth which set up an All-Church Orthodox Youth Movement as an official youth organization established by the Russian Orthodox Church. The tasks which the Movement set itself at that time were to attract children, adolescents and young people who sought their way to church in the fold of the Russian Orthodox Church and to unite groups of young Orthodox Christians under programs of social service, restoration of monasteries and churches, pilgrimages and contacts with young Christians in other countries. The external contacts of the Russian Orthodox Church are supervised by the Department for External Church Relations of the Moscow Patriarchate. It tasks include the following: - to provide hierarchical and financial administration over dioceses, monasteries, parishes and other institutions of our Church in far abroad; - to prepare decisions for the church authorities concerning church-state and church-society relations; - to maintain relations of the Russian Orthodox Church with Local Orthodox Churches, non-Orthodox Churches and religious associations, non-Christian religions, religious and secular international organizations, public, political, social, cultural, academic, economic, financial and other institutions, as well as mass media.

++++++++++

Now, can you compare that to the church attendance statistics in  any country in western europe?

Religious Statistics for Western Europe


===================================

United Kingdom:

Religious Statistics -


 New statistic 2004: 24% Atheist; 11% Agnostic; 18% Deist; 3% Hinduist, Sikh or Muslim; 16% Neodoukhobor; 5% Pseudoatheist according to the previous computations with the ISSP; 23% Christian (Anglican, Protestant, Catholic), group practicing and conservative

Note: I guess we can even say that England is less Christain than Russia.

==========

Belgium:

New statistic (Approximative): 1/10 Atheist; 1/5 Agnostic; 2% Muslim; 12% Deist;
 13% Christian deist; 12% New Age; 4% Neodoukhobor; 15% Pseudochristian (acc. WVS) and Catholic the 11% surely.

Note: Same with Belgium

==========

France:

- New statistic 2004: 14% atheist; 25% agnostic; 4% Muslim Deist; 27% Christian Deist; 6% pseudoatheist; 1% Muslim; 1% pseudo-Sikh; 15.5% neodoukhobor; 5.5% Catholic (!).


Note: Definitely France!!!

===========

And how about Germany!

- New statistic: 23% Atheist; 16% Agnostic; 16% Deist; 5% Christian deist; 5% Pseudoatheist; 2% Muslim; 18% Neodoukhobor; 14% Christian (surely 6% Catholic, 8% Protestant).

==========

Conclusion: After 77+ tears of religious persecution that was not experienced in western europe.... Russia isn't any less Christain than any other supposedly Christian nation in western europe!

Orthodoc


Orthodoc:
I have been off this forum for three days and I answer you now. Poland has 75% to 85% CHurch attendance. Also how is someone a "pseudo atheist" or a "pseudo sikh"? What is the difference between a Muslim deist and a Muslim? Finally, it is a well established fact that France and England has atleast 5 million Muslims or so I thought?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2004, 08:24:59 PM by CatholicEagle » Logged
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« Reply #52 on: September 07, 2004, 08:52:43 PM »

This thread is out of control. It's now closed. People stop insulting each other.
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