Author Topic: Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study  (Read 2045 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,580
  • Barlaam and Josaphat
    • The Mystical Theology
Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study
« on: December 15, 2011, 02:57:18 PM »
Quote
Widely believed theory of Indo-Aryan invasion, often used to explain early settlements in the Indian subcontinent is a myth, a new study by Indian geneticists says.
 
The origin of genetic diversity found in South Asia is much older than 3,500 years when the Indo-Aryans were supposed to have migrated to India, a new study led by scientists from the Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology (CCMB), Hyderabad, says. The study appeared in American Journal of Human Genetics on Friday.
 
The theory of Indo-Aryan migration was proposed in mid-19th century by German linguist and Sanskrit scholar Max Muller.

Journal article here.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Jason.Wike

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,046
Re: Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2011, 03:07:32 PM »
So the Haplogroup R1a just... doesn't exist now? ::)



« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 03:12:02 PM by Jason.Wike »

Offline Cognomen

  • Site Supporter
  • OC.net guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,972
  • Ungrateful Biped
Re: Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2011, 03:36:36 PM »
Widely believed theory of Indo-Aryan invasion, often used to explain early settlements in the Indian subcontinent is a myth, a new study by Indian geneticists says.

Hmm. I wonder if this study is as objective as Indian nationalist histories.

Last I remember, they were trying to minimize the Aryan "invasion" by saying it was really just some neighboring farmers who brought certain customs in. Yeah, that sounds like Indo-Europeans to me, peaceful farmers. Just ask the Creek people about them.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 03:36:54 PM by Cognomen »
North American Eastern Orthodox Parish Council Delegate for the Canonization of Saints Twin Towers and Pentagon, as well as the Propagation of the Doctrine of the Assumption of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (NAEOPCDCSTTPPDAMAFM®).

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Strategos
  • ******************
  • Posts: 39,553
Re: Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2011, 03:45:29 PM »
So the Haplogroup R1a just... doesn't exist now? ::)




Interesting little pond of genetics there in Northern Mesopotamia, where the Indo-Aryan language and Proto-Hindu mythology is first attested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_languages#Indo-Aryan_superstrate_in_Mitanni
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_superstrate_in_Mitanni
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 03:47:02 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,363
Re: Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2011, 05:27:59 PM »
So the Haplogroup R1a just... doesn't exist now? ::)





You are not far from the Kingdom of Isa.
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline biro

  • Elevator lady, levitate me
  • Site Supporter
  • Hoplitarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,687
Re: Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2011, 05:29:13 PM »
I feel like playing "Risk" now.  :D

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,580
  • Barlaam and Josaphat
    • The Mystical Theology
Re: Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2011, 11:17:23 PM »
So the Haplogroup R1a just... doesn't exist now? ::)




Hard to tell which population branched off from which, or what conditions led to the current distribution, from this map. Given the likelihood of India being, via the Arabian region, the first non-African region colonized by humans, one could argue that a 'reverse Aryan' migration would explain the haplogroup distribution.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline biro

  • Elevator lady, levitate me
  • Site Supporter
  • Hoplitarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,687
Re: Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2011, 11:21:48 PM »
Conclusion: everyone from India and Germany is purple.

Offline Jason.Wike

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,046
Re: Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2011, 11:48:53 PM »
Hard to tell which population branched off from which, or what conditions led to the current distribution, from this map. Given the likelihood of India being, via the Arabian region, the first non-African region colonized by humans, one could argue that a 'reverse Aryan' migration would explain the haplogroup distribution.

Well, to the ones that think India is the source of all civilization that is the answer. Everything came from India!

Offline Jason.Wike

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,046
Re: Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2011, 11:54:43 PM »
The thing that is ironic about this all is that "Aryan" comes from the ancient Indians, it is their own self description and there's been no period since written history began that they stopped referring to themselves as "Arya." They are descended from Aryans, they ARE the Aryans. What they should be saying is "None of our ancestors came from outside India, ever." That's what they are really trying to say. Instead, by saying they're not descended from Aryans, its like Greeks saying they're not Ellines.

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Strategos
  • ******************
  • Posts: 39,553
Re: Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2011, 12:45:48 AM »
The thing that is ironic about this all is that "Aryan" comes from the ancient Indians, it is their own self description and there's been no period since written history began that they stopped referring to themselves as "Arya." They are descended from Aryans, they ARE the Aryans. What they should be saying is "None of our ancestors came from outside India, ever." That's what they are really trying to say. Instead, by saying they're not descended from Aryans, its like Greeks saying they're not Ellines.
One can of worms at a time, please.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,580
  • Barlaam and Josaphat
    • The Mystical Theology
Re: Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2011, 09:42:14 AM »
The thing that is ironic about this all is that "Aryan" comes from the ancient Indians, it is their own self description and there's been no period since written history began that they stopped referring to themselves as "Arya." They are descended from Aryans, they ARE the Aryans. What they should be saying is "None of our ancestors came from outside India, ever." That's what they are really trying to say. Instead, by saying they're not descended from Aryans, its like Greeks saying they're not Ellines.
Actually, it was the (newspaper) headline that was misleading, by claiming that the "Aryan" Indians were not Aryans. The scientific paper itself, of course, never said that. :o

« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 10:01:41 AM by Jetavan »
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,580
  • Barlaam and Josaphat
    • The Mystical Theology
Re: Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2011, 09:56:39 AM »
Hard to tell which population branched off from which, or what conditions led to the current distribution, from this map. Given the likelihood of India being, via the Arabian region, the first non-African region colonized by humans, one could argue that a 'reverse Aryan' migration would explain the haplogroup distribution.

Well, to the ones that think India is the source of all civilization that is the answer. Everything came from India!
Of course, that would be hyperbole, but it does seem that India has played a more signficant role in human history than previously believed. There is more and more evidence that the migration of humans out of Africa, went through Arabia and into India, first, and then the migration from India gave rise to the Western Eurasian and other Asian and American migrations. Outside of Africa, India has the most genetic diversity, leading one to suspect that after "out of Africa", there was an "out of India" migration.

Quote
By looking at similarities in patterns of DNA recombination that have been passed on and in disparate populations, Genographic scientists confirm that African populations are the most diverse on Earth, and that the diversity of lineages outside of Africa is a subset of that found on the continent. The divergence of a common genetic history between populations showed that Eurasian groups were more similar to populations from southern India, than they were to those in Africa. This supports a southern route of migration from Africa via the Bab-el-Mandeb Strait in Arabia before any movement heading north, and suggests a special role for south Asia in the “out of Africa” expansion of modern humans.  

Ajay Royyuru, senior manager at IBM’s Computational Biology Center, said: “Over the past six years, we’ve had the opportunity to gather and analyze genetic data around the world at a scale and level of detail that has never been done before.  When we started, our goal was to bring science expeditions into the modern era to further a deeper understanding of human roots and diversity. With evidence that the genetic diversity in southern India is closer to Africa than that of Europe, this suggests that other fields of research such as archaeology and anthropology should look for additional evidence on the migration route of early humans to further explore this theory.”


« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 09:58:02 AM by Jetavan »
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Avowed denominationalist
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,748
  • PtA's emotion chip
    • Hyperdox Herman
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian+Greek
Re: Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2011, 11:49:39 AM »
When non-Indian scientists confirm it with their own research, I'll believe it.
Vote for a Ministry section on OC.net

Πάντα μὲν καθαρὰ τοῖς καθαροῖς
Τοῖς δὲ μεμιασμένοις καὶ ἀπίστοις οὐδὲν καθαρόν

Offline Nephi

  • Monster Tamer
  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,764
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2011, 04:36:49 PM »
A couple years back I had an Ancient Indian history class in which my (Indian) professor taught this same concept. In fact she was even writing a book at the time that expounded upon it.

Offline yeshuaisiam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,697
  • A pulling horse cannot kick.
Re: Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2011, 12:04:30 PM »
I wonder if there is any reflection or connection that can be made with babel through this.
I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com