Author Topic: what do you think about this?  (Read 613 times)

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Offline mikeyseky

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what do you think about this?
« on: December 16, 2011, 05:19:50 PM »

Offline peteprint

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Re: what do you think about this?
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2011, 07:27:16 PM »
This is apparently a very old statement (1994).  I am also wondering why there is a link to orthodox info above the article.  That site is known for its condemnation of rapprochement between the EO and OO Churches.  My personal feelings on the matter, for what they are worth, is that such decisions should be made by our Hierarchs- the Patriarchs and Bishops of the Church.  Too often the monastics act as though they are the guardians of the Faith.  The Church was in existence a long time (with Bishop's, Priests, Deacons, and Laity) before any monastic communities were founded.  The monastics have much to offer the Church, but running it is not one of their responsibilities.  They are under Patriarchal/Synodical control just as we in the laity are.  They seem to often forget that.  
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 07:34:50 PM by peteprint »

Offline peteprint

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Re: what do you think about this?
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2011, 07:33:49 PM »
The local Syriac Orthodox parish meets on Saturday at my Serbian parish. 

As my priest has said, "these people are refugees from Iraq; they have been tortured and persecuted by Muslims for years, now they came here to America, I think that our Orthodox Faith is big enough to welcome them and give them a place for their Liturgical gathering."

While we are not in communion with them, neither do I consider them heretics.  They are our separated Christian brothers and sisters and I hope to live long enough to see reunion occur.  It's not up to me of course, but to our Hierarchs.

Offline MOHA

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Re: what do you think about this?
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2011, 11:09:47 AM »
There seems to be confusion about the difference between heresy and being good, nice, and pious people. Many think that if we love someone or some people, then we will approve what they say or do. This is not the case with the saints (here, those involved with heretical issues and schisms) of the Orthodox Church or even Christ Himself. Did they not love? Did they not want to see unity prevail and people living in peace.

As far as the text mentioned, i.e. the declaration from Mount Athos, it can't be considered all that old. Something from 1994 cannot be considered "old" when the monophysite issue goes back to the first centuries of the Church. Because monastics, or anyone for that matter, express concern over an issue does not mean that they are trying to run the Church. The Church's history witnesses to many monastics taking a stand for the Faith against heretical beliefs, and vice versa (some notable ones being St. Maximus the Confessor, St. Theodore the Studite, St. Gregory Palamas, etc). Laity, clergy, and monastics alike can be wrong. All Orthodox Christians have the right to show interest and be involved in matters of the faith. You do not see these monastics holding their own councils and the like, going against the Ecumenical Councils and the Fathers' teachings. (That has happened in the past with priests and bishops, even patriarchs. Are we to say it's okay because they're the hierarchy.) It has happened much more frequently that bishops forget the Church is not a boat for them to steer where they like. The Holy Spirit controls it and we try to stay aboard and not go our own direction.

We should look towards the Ecumenical Councils' and saints' teachings on theological issues instead of saying, "I think so and so are great people…" or "I don't really understand the issue, so I don't consider them heretics." Calling something heresy, schism, outside the Church, etc. does not mean you don't love them and they are in total delusion. We should witness to others of the truth of Orthodoxy exactly because we love; this is the example the saints gave us. It is out of love for others and for God that so many have stood up for, tried to "preserve," and even martyred for the truth.

Offline Father Peter

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Re: what do you think about this?
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2011, 02:04:44 PM »
Which heretical beliefs do you believe that we hold?

The double consubstantiality of Christ?

The veneration of icons?

The condemnation of the Three Chapters?

Where is our heresy?
Lord have mercy upon me a sinner
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: what do you think about this?
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2011, 02:53:53 PM »
Which heretical beliefs do you believe that we hold?

The double consubstantiality of Christ?

The veneration of icons?

The condemnation of the Three Chapters?

Where is our heresy?
Fasting from eggs and cheese the week before Great Lent
Here is the rubric given in the Byzantine Triodion for Cheesefare Sunday, which introduces the week in question: “During this week the accursed Armenians fast from eggs and cheese, but we, to refute their damnable heresy, do eat both eggs and cheese for the entire week."
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,8296.msg187221.html#msg187221
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,33733.msg532711.html#msg532711
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,8296.msg187221.html#msg187221
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Father Peter

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Re: what do you think about this?
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2011, 02:58:13 PM »
I hesitate to say LOL as it is too sad.

Of course Copts eat no dairy in that week. In fact I think there are only 3 non-fasting days in the Coptic calendar.
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