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Author Topic: Guadalupe  (Read 1121 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: December 13, 2011, 07:16:38 PM »

The next story is the oldest relation known of Guadalupe Miracle that lead the largest American civilization to mass convertion to Catholicism. The faith of the Apostles.



i. Nican Mopohua, motecpana, in quenin yancuican hueytlamahuizoltica monexiti in cenquizca ichpochtli Sancta María Dios Inantzin Tocihuapillatocatzin, in oncan Tepeyacac, motenehua Guadalupe.    
Here it is told, and set down in order, how a short time ago the Perfect Virgin Holy Mary Mother of God, our Queen, miraculously appeared out at Tepeyac, widely known as Guadalupe.

ii. Acattopa quimottititzino ce macehualtzintli itoca Juan Diego, auh zantepan monexiti in Itlazoixiptlatzin in ixpan yancuican Obispo, Don Fray Juan de Zumárraga.
First She caused herself to be seen by an Indian named Juan Diego, poor but worthy of respect; and then her Precious Image appeared before the recently named Bishop, Don Fray Juan de Zumárraga.

(Read more at the link below.)

You have 24 hours to provide a source for this article.  You are being placed on a 7 day official warning status.  If you don't provide a source for this article you will be placed on 30 day post moderation.  Also in the future please provide the link and then a paragraph or two of that article instead of copying and pasting the whole article.  That is imperative that you do this.  -username! Orthodox Catholic moderator


The source:

http://weber.ucsd.edu/~dkjordan/nahuatl/nican/NicanMopohua.html

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« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 07:16:35 PM by Fr. George » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2011, 07:25:55 PM »

a) Where is your source?

b) This is a discussion forum. Is there a question or point you would like to discuss, or was this just to inform us all of this miracle?
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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2011, 07:35:18 PM »

a) Where is your source?

b) This is a discussion forum. Is there a question or point you would like to discuss, or was this just to inform us all of this miracle?

What do you like the most?

No, my point was that yesterday was december 12th, the day that the Always Virgin Mary printed herself in the "tilma" of an American indian, Saint Juan Diego, an act which lead to massive convertion to catholicism in American indians to the faith of the apostles, The Catholic Church.

I wanted to see your reaction .
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« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2011, 07:37:22 PM »

^ Is this for the purpose of stirring the pot?
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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2011, 08:05:52 PM »

My reaction is that there has to be a better written interpretation of this miracle, then line by line translation! lol
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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2011, 01:49:29 PM »

The next story is the oldest relation known of Guadalupe Miracle that lead the largest American civilization to mass convertion to Catholicism. The faith of the Apostles.

They didn't start converting to the Faith of the Apostles until the 19th century, and didn't get an organized Church until 1972, and a diocese in 2009.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Diocese_of_Mexico_(OCA)

Not sure what the rest of your post was about.
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2011, 01:55:00 PM »

They didn't start converting to the Faith of the Apostles until the 19th century, and didn't get an organized Church until 1972, and a diocese in 2009.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Diocese_of_Mexico_(OCA)

Not sure what the rest of your post was about.

Weren't the Antiochians first there?
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2011, 02:39:14 PM »

They didn't start converting to the Faith of the Apostles until the 19th century, and didn't get an organized Church until 1972, and a diocese in 2009.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Diocese_of_Mexico_(OCA)

Not sure what the rest of your post was about.

Weren't the Antiochians first there?
Yes, that was "the 19th century" part.  St. Raphael went when still just a priest in the Russian Missionary Archdiocese.
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« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2011, 04:10:04 PM »

They createc the diocese of Mexico in 1996.
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« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2011, 05:15:06 PM »

I was amused by the claim by "Mexican" in another thread that one of the opponents of Juan Diego's canonisation (possibly Guillermo von Schulenburg Prado) was a "Leninist agent" and an "agent of Parti Pri". This article here claims that the Pope may have beatified (and much later, infallibily canonised) a "ghost".

http://www.miraclehunter.com/marian_apparitions/approved_apparitions/guadalupe/article_14.html

Fr. Schulenburg made this claim elsewhere (findable by Google):

"If he should canonize Juan Diego, then it would be most serious, because in that case theologians would have to study whether the pope can or cannot be in error in a canonization."
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 05:19:33 PM by John Larocque » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2011, 11:34:22 PM »

Hello

Guillermo Schulenburg started his priestly life almost inmediately after the infamous agreements between the Vatican and the government, a betrayal against the Cristero Army. Years later, before and after WWII, Germans were viewed with suspicion. German citizens had been expelled (especially those close to Roman Catholic groups and Nationalist organizations in opposition to the government). However, Schulenburg never got expelled, he was even promoted in the Roman hierarchy as he was known to be a hardcore "Anti Fascist", very close to the government.

At that time, the Romanist hierarchy ceased to oppose the government and the RC seminaries were filled with ambitious youngmen with government connections. They started to form their own organizations as pressure groups agitating for the replacement of older bishops and priests (especially "Priests for the People" founded by Sergio Mendez Arceo, who would become Bishop of Cuernavaca and which promoted a Rationalist thought and open collaboration with the government's "progressive" causes).

When he was appointed as abbot of Guadalupe's Basilica, Schulenburg got the Mexican TV to broadcast his liturgies and the government's tribune ruled the Basilica. Most sermons were about social issues and almost always coincided with the line of the official party's policies and thoughts. It was at this time when Schulenburg started to accumulate incredible wealth and receive extremely expensive gifts from politicians. In 1975, Communism succeeded again when the government announced that the old Basilica (a baroque temple) would be replaced with a modern building. It is rumoured that one of the architects who were involved in the project said that one of their ideas was to make the building not look like a church but as a temple dedicated to mankind. The chief architect, Pedro Ramirez Vasquez (a Marxist), also participated in urban projects on behalf of the Israeli government. You can check some of his monstrous creations on his website:

http://ramirezvazquez.org/

The people who worked with Schulenburg were all Liberals, Rationalists and Pro-Marxists. Manuel Olimon, one of his collaborators is a well known historian. You can check some of his titles here (some of his books seem quite interesting, such as "Incipient History of Liberalism in the State of Mexico", for example):

http://olimon.org/





« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 11:36:07 PM by Mexican » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2011, 03:16:14 AM »

Roll out the maps folks!
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2011, 03:42:16 AM »

^ Is this for the purpose of stirring the pot?

or maybe to season the pot a bit? Wink
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