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Author Topic: Matisyahu Shaves Beard, Says 'Chassidic' Days Are Over  (Read 3309 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: December 13, 2011, 06:52:19 PM »

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Matisyahu's million-plus Twitter followers were in for quite a surprise this morning (Dec. 13), as the Hasidic rapper posted a cryptic message and links to photos of himself without his trademark -- and religiously significant -- beard.

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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2011, 06:54:18 PM »

May God bless him on his journey.
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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2011, 07:00:25 PM »

I hope he's okay, and not doing this out of some sickness or stress. Lord have mercy.
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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2011, 01:22:38 AM »

I hope he's okay, and not doing this out of some sickness or stress. Lord have mercy.
  I agree...he said no more Chassidic Reggae superstar....I still hope he makes some sort of inspiring Reggae music and is okay psychologically
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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2011, 11:45:06 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


To my brother Matisyahu.. we all knew it was all just schtick to make that money, and we're glad you finally came to terms with that Smiley

One thing I can't understand is groups like Matisyahu who exploit Rastafari and reggae culture for their own Jewish agenda, or folks like Christafari who exploit Rastafari and reggae culture for their pseudo-Christianity, when at the end of the day it really just comes down to merchandising and tour receipts. We in Rastafari are very sensitive to our culture being exploited, scoffed, or demeaned.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 11:47:30 AM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2011, 12:50:13 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


To my brother Matisyahu.. we all knew it was all just schtick to make that money, and we're glad you finally came to terms with that Smiley

One thing I can't understand is groups like Matisyahu who exploit Rastafari and reggae culture for their own Jewish agenda, or folks like Christafari who exploit Rastafari and reggae culture for their pseudo-Christianity, when at the end of the day it really just comes down to merchandising and tour receipts. We in Rastafari are very sensitive to our culture being exploited, scoffed, or demeaned.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Interesting.  I just heard Freddie McGregor talking about "white European reggae" on NPR and he said that he's thrilled that reggae has such a broad audience.  The only thing that would ever annoy him is if people didn't recognize the Jamaican roots of reggae but that never happens, so the more, the merrier.

I was unaware that reggae was the sole property of Rastas.  And I've certainly never heard Matisyahu "exploit" Rastafarianism.  He's simply a Jew that expressed himself via a musical style.

By your logic, the Bad Brains should've never played punk rock and exposed millions of white, suburban kids to black culture.
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2011, 01:00:07 PM »

"Rastafarian Culture" and reggae music in general outside of the Caribbean proper and its diaspora is merchandizing and tour receipts and the like. Consumerism is part of music and music-based subcultures. Deal with it. At least it has inspired some people to broaden their horizons beyond whatever their immediate surroundings are about (e.g., Schultz's BB example, the Clash covering Junior Marvin and The Maytals, etc).
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2011, 01:00:57 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


To my brother Matisyahu.. we all knew it was all just schtick to make that money, and we're glad you finally came to terms with that Smiley

One thing I can't understand is groups like Matisyahu who exploit Rastafari and reggae culture for their own Jewish agenda, or folks like Christafari who exploit Rastafari and reggae culture for their pseudo-Christianity, when at the end of the day it really just comes down to merchandising and tour receipts. We in Rastafari are very sensitive to our culture being exploited, scoffed, or demeaned.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Interesting.  I just heard Freddie McGregor talking about "white European reggae" on NPR and he said that he's thrilled that reggae has such a broad audience.  The only thing that would ever annoy him is if people didn't recognize the Jamaican roots of reggae but that never happens, so the more, the merrier.

I was unaware that reggae was the sole property of Rastas.  And I've certainly never heard Matisyahu "exploit" Rastafarianism.  He's simply a Jew that expressed himself via a musical style.

By your logic, the Bad Brains should've never played punk rock and exposed millions of white, suburban kids to black culture.



A) Two things: a) thsi is not a racial thing, its not because Matisyahu isn't black that he has not right to reggae, its that he is not a Rastafari brother , and he is openly not even Christian!  Reggae is the mesage and trumpet of the Rastafari people, and any folks who are not Rastafari can surely enjoy listening to reggae music, but they shouldn't attempt to have reggae bands, especially large money making commercial mainstream endeavors. If you are not a Christian, why sing Gospel music? We in Rastafari are sensitive to this, especially after the insane popularity and mass appeal of His Honorable Bob Marley.

B) Bad Brains are both Rastafari affiliated, and further isn't reggae, its punk, if you can't hear the difference then I'll never be able to explain it.

I got no beef wit Matisyahu or Christafari as individuals, my beef is what they are doing with reggae music, they have no respect for the Elders. If folks grow dread, or a Jewish beard, so enhance or live up to a particular "image" of Reggae,and then it turns out these are just that, an image and not sincerity, that hurts me a bit.  We in Rastafari do not grow dread because it looks cool or sells alums, it is a work of the heart.Further, it seems to me these groups stink of crass commercialism, but that is just my perspective as an snobby artist Wink

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 01:04:18 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2011, 01:34:39 PM »

I don't get how you think he is exploiting Rastafari. He was inspired by the music of Bob Marley and Sizzla when he was growing up and they were his role models. He doesn't sing about Rastafari anyway; he is only using the music style which took a lot from ska music anyway. If Rastas didn't want others to use their music style, then perhaps Bob Marley should have kept it in the hills of Jamaica.

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« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2011, 01:36:09 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Habte, I admit my confusion over your posts above but I realize that my response may derail the thread, but maybe not.  On the one hand, with your greeting you make clear that the name of the Lord and Savior is Jesus Christ; but on the other hand you say “we in Rastafari”, you seem to take personal offense at the separation of Reggae from authentic Rastafari, and you then proceed to criticize those who separate the two as having “no respect for the Elders.”  If you were concerned about the “purity” of Rastafari and had respect for the “Elders” of the Rastafari wherein Reggae developed, certainly you would not begin a post exalting the name of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, but would rather begin with the praise of His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I.  Is not the “authentic” Rastafari, wherein Reggae developed, a cult which worshipped His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I as the black Messiah who was to lead all those of African decent to their own this-worldly Promised Land?  Didn't "authentic Rastafari" consider Jesus Christ as the "white Messiah" and Christianity a white man's religion?  If so, and if you do not believe such things, aren’t you the one who is speaking falsely when you say “we in Rastafari”, and isn’t it you who have turned your back on the “Elders” of Rastafari in abandoning their emperor-worshipping cult?  Aren't you "exploiting Rastafari" by misrepresenting what it was/is actually about?
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« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2011, 01:47:04 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Habte, I admit my confusion over your posts above but I realize that my response may derail the thread, but maybe not.  On the one hand, with your greeting you make clear that the name of the Lord and Savior is Jesus Christ; but on the other hand you say “we in Rastafari”, you seem to take personal offense at the separation of Reggae from authentic Rastafari, and then proceed to criticize those who separate the two as having “no respect for the Elders.”  If you were concerned about the “purity” of Rastafari and had respect for the “Elders” of the Rastafari wherein Reggae developed, certainly you would not begin a post exalting the name of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, but would rather begin with the praise of His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I.  Is not the “authentic” Rastafari, wherein Reggae developed, a cult which worshipped His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I as the black Messiah who was to lead all those of African decent back to their own Promised Land?  If so, and if you do not believe such things, aren’t you the one who is speaking falsely when you say “we in Rastafari”, and isn’t it you who have turned your back on the “Elders” of Rastafari in abandoning their emperor-worshipping cult?  Aren't you "exploiting Rastafari" by misrepresenting what it was/is actually about?

My brother perhaps you misunderstand, and this is a good opportunity for me to explain my greetings.  Such is the shortened official greeting of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, a foundation Rastafari mansion stemming from the Ethiopian World Federation Charter 15.  The full greetings is

"Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who as in this day revealed Himself in the personality of HIM Haile Selassie, crowned King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah.

Greetings to and from the Twelve Tribes of Israel, once scattered abroad, but now being regathered by the workds of our beloved Prophet Gad, founded on the island of Jamaica in 1968.

Greetings through the Ethiopian Orthodox Faith, not a faith of writs or rights, but one born from a mystical incorporation of the Holy Spirit, in plain words, to be born again.

Further Greetings to and through the Ethiopian Royal Family of King David, represented by HIH Zara Yacob, long the House of David!

I greet you from the Tribe of Naphtali"


That being said, I can assure you that my salutation is 100% card-carrying Rastafari certified Smiley

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2011, 01:48:00 PM »

Too long to type?  Huh
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« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2011, 01:57:01 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Habte, I admit my confusion over your posts above but I realize that my response may derail the thread, but maybe not.  On the one hand, with your greeting you make clear that the name of the Lord and Savior is Jesus Christ; but on the other hand you say “we in Rastafari”, you seem to take personal offense at the separation of Reggae from authentic Rastafari, and then proceed to criticize those who separate the two as having “no respect for the Elders.”  If you were concerned about the “purity” of Rastafari and had respect for the “Elders” of the Rastafari wherein Reggae developed, certainly you would not begin a post exalting the name of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, but would rather begin with the praise of His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I.  Is not the “authentic” Rastafari, wherein Reggae developed, a cult which worshipped His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I as the black Messiah who was to lead all those of African decent back to their own Promised Land?  If so, and if you do not believe such things, aren’t you the one who is speaking falsely when you say “we in Rastafari”, and isn’t it you who have turned your back on the “Elders” of Rastafari in abandoning their emperor-worshipping cult?  Aren't you "exploiting Rastafari" by misrepresenting what it was/is actually about?

My brother perhaps you misunderstand, and this is a good opportunity for me to explain my greetings.  Such is the shortened official greeting of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, a foundation Rastafari mansion stemming from the Ethiopian World Federation Charter 15.  The full greetings is

"Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who as in this day revealed Himself in the personality of HIM Haile Selassie, crowned King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah.

Greetings to and from the Twelve Tribes of Israel, once scattered abroad, but now being regathered by the workds of our beloved Prophet Gad, founded on the island of Jamaica in 1968.

Greetings through the Ethiopian Orthodox Faith, not a faith of writs or rights, but one born from a mystical incorporation of the Holy Spirit, in plain words, to be born again.

Further Greetings to and through the Ethiopian Royal Family of King David, represented by HIH Zara Yacob, long the House of David!

I greet you from the Tribe of Naphtali"


That being said, I can assure you that my salutation is 100% card-carrying Rastafari certified Smiley

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Ah, ok so you are just exploiting the Ethiopian Orthodox Church?
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« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2011, 02:02:36 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


To my brother Matisyahu.. we all knew it was all just schtick to make that money, and we're glad you finally came to terms with that Smiley

One thing I can't understand is groups like Matisyahu who exploit Rastafari and reggae culture for their own Jewish agenda, or folks like Christafari who exploit Rastafari and reggae culture for their pseudo-Christianity, when at the end of the day it really just comes down to merchandising and tour receipts. We in Rastafari are very sensitive to our culture being exploited, scoffed, or demeaned.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Interesting.  I just heard Freddie McGregor talking about "white European reggae" on NPR and he said that he's thrilled that reggae has such a broad audience.  The only thing that would ever annoy him is if people didn't recognize the Jamaican roots of reggae but that never happens, so the more, the merrier.

I was unaware that reggae was the sole property of Rastas.  And I've certainly never heard Matisyahu "exploit" Rastafarianism.  He's simply a Jew that expressed himself via a musical style.

By your logic, the Bad Brains should've never played punk rock and exposed millions of white, suburban kids to black culture.



A) Two things: a) thsi is not a racial thing, its not because Matisyahu isn't black that he has not right to reggae, its that he is not a Rastafari brother , and he is openly not even Christian!  Reggae is the mesage and trumpet of the Rastafari people, and any folks who are not Rastafari can surely enjoy listening to reggae music, but they shouldn't attempt to have reggae bands, especially large money making commercial mainstream endeavors. If you are not a Christian, why sing Gospel music? We in Rastafari are sensitive to this, especially after the insane popularity and mass appeal of His Honorable Bob Marley.

Again, reggae artists have spoken extensively about how wonderful it is for reggae to be accepted the world over by various cultures and creeds.  

And reggae was just dance music long before Rastas adopted it.  "Do the Reggay" (Toots and the Maytals) has everything to do with dancing and nothing to do with Rastafarianism.  Even today, much reggae has nothing to do with Rastas but with the dancefloor.  While certainly socially conscious even from its ska and rocksteady days, it was first and foremost dance music.

Quote
B) Bad Brains are both Rastafari affiliated, and further isn't reggae, its punk, if you can't hear the difference then I'll never be able to explain it.

You missed my point.  Punk rock, especially in 1979 when the BB got their start, was 'white people' music.  HR and Dr. Know have talked about that extensively.  They, however, saw that they could use the energy inherent in punk rock as a vehicle to express their own experiences as African-Americans in Washington, DC.  By your logic, they shouldn't be able to do that.

Also, BB infused a lot of reggae into their music and further exposed a bunch of kids to it who would otherwise have not really heard it.

Quote
I got no beef wit Matisyahu or Christafari as individuals, my beef is what they are doing with reggae music, they have no respect for the Elders. If folks grow dread, or a Jewish beard, so enhance or live up to a particular "image" of Reggae,and then it turns out these are just that, an image and not sincerity, that hurts me a bit.  We in Rastafari do not grow dread because it looks cool or sells alums, it is a work of the heart.Further, it seems to me these groups stink of crass commercialism, but that is just my perspective as an snobby artist Wink

stay blessed,
habte selassie

You make it sound like Matisyahu planned all this from the beginning.  I really wish I had your ability to see into the hearts and minds of others I do not know.  While I certainly share your concerns about crass commercialism of subculture, I see no reason to cast such aspersions on Matisyahu.  Like it or not, reggae is music, first and foremost.  Of course, Rastas have used it to express their worldviews, but, contrary to what you want to think, it is not their sole possession and it never has been.

I'm sure Bob Marley would be shocked to hear you express such a sentiment.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 02:04:23 PM by Schultz » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2011, 02:06:43 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


Ah, ok so you are just exploiting the Ethiopian Orthodox Church?

Not exactly because I am a baptized member of the EOTC, a dues contributing member of my local EOTC parish, and further a Sunday school teacher and a curriculum content advisor for our Education Steering Committee Wink

Many of Twelve Tribes are mutually members of both the Twelve Tribes mansion and the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.  IF Matisyahu is a card-carrying member of a Rastafari mansion then I will retract my statements, however to my knowledge he is not nor does he advertise Rastafari mansions in his pseudo-reggae music.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 02:07:08 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2011, 02:07:23 PM »

My brother perhaps you misunderstand,

Yes, I see that I did indeed misunderstand and you, and I see now that you appropriately refer to yourself as Rastafarian, and consequently may speak with consistency regarding "authentic Rastafari" and Reggae's place in it.  From past posts that I have read of yours I simply did not realize that you were Rastafarian and this is partly perhaps due to my ignorance of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church as distinct in faith from the Ethiopian Orthodox Coptic Church.  I see in the thread below a more thorough explanation of these beliefs, and I admit my great sadness to realize that such beliefs are held by you and others which are completely inconsistent with the Apostolic Faith and drenched in a multitude of foul-smelling and soul-destroying heresies.  Lord have mercy.   

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=25088.0
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« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2011, 02:11:27 PM »

Ugh. Not this again. Guys, we already had it out in several threads that were rightfully locked. There is a basic disagreement between those who are Ethiopian Orthodox by birth (away from any intermediary) and those who have joined the EOTC via the Rastafarian culture as to whether or not that same culture is compatible with Orthodox Christianity. It would probably be good to leave it at that, unless you'd like this thread to be locked too, when it isn't even about that.
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« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2011, 02:15:10 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



Again, reggae artists have spoken extensively about how wonderful it is for reggae to be accepted the world over by various cultures and creeds.  

And reggae was just dance music long before Rastas adopted it.  "Do the Reggay" (Toots and the Maytals) has everything to do with dancing and nothing to do with Rastafarianism.  Even today, much reggae has nothing to do with Rastas but with the dancefloor.  While certainly socially conscious even from its ska and rocksteady days, it was first and foremost dance music.


Not true, that is dancehall, but we are splitting hairs over semantics here, so maybe I should elaborate.  As a Rastafari brother and a roots reggae musician, my snobbery is probably quite apparent, but my definition of reggae does not include boojie "shake your rump" dancehall or Shaggy or even Sean Paul, but only strictly Rastafari music we a deal with.  If it isn't Rastafari, then it isn't reggae, and that is my definition and the definition that the elders and pioneers of reggae music introduced to me.  Again, ANYONE is free to ENJOY and LISTEN TO REGGAE music, what I am criticizing is when non-Rastafari folks try to START IMITATION REGGAE BANDS.  It is the BANDS I am critiquing, not the fans Smiley
Quote
While I certainly share your concerns about crass commercialism of subculture, I see no reason to cast such aspersions on Matisyahu.  Like it or not, reggae is music, first and foremost.  Of course, Rastas have used it to express their worldviews, but, contrary to what you want to think, it is not their sole possession and it never has been.

I'm sure Bob Marley would be shocked to hear you express such a sentiment.

As an artists I would disagree, an I would precisely accuse Mtisyahu as being crass commercialism, but that is just how I feel as an artist and a snob Smiley  By the way, Bob Marley as expressed by his interviews and opinions would most definitely disagree with folks like Matisyahu as musicians, but we express the love for all peoples.  While Matisyahu may indeed be my brother, he certainly isn't reggae and he is only fooling himself, and  I further I wouldn't exactly be his brother myself if I didn't let him in on the joke, it would be about as rude as not telling somebody they look silly because their fly is down.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 02:15:46 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2011, 02:22:25 PM »

What the heck, Habte? Schultz mentions one of the tracks that popularized the term reggae in the first place back in the 1960s, and you respond about Shaggy and whatever? Pretty lame, my friend.
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« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2011, 02:34:10 PM »

Bad Brains FTW. Loved 'em. I dont care about the rasta stuff. From one musician to a group of them, they were awesome.

PP
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« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2011, 02:36:56 PM »

No, I get it.

Habte is a small minded snob and he's admitted it, even though, by his definition, artists like the great Derrick Morgan and Phyllis Dillon aren't "reggae" artists.

That would probably be news to Ken Boothe, Hopeton Lewis, and Dave and Ansell Collins, too.

Whatever.  

Musical bigotry is stupid, plain and simple, and it's not worth arguing with those that espouse it, because there's always a bigger, badder bigot behind them waiting to show how their smaller world is better.
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« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2011, 02:38:19 PM »

Musical bigotry is stupid, plain and simple, and it's not worth arguing with those that espouse it, because there's always a bigger, badder bigot behind them waiting to show how their smaller world is better.
Musical bigotry is stupid, but I still hate Rap  laugh

PP
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« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2011, 02:40:46 PM »

Musical bigotry is stupid, plain and simple, and it's not worth arguing with those that espouse it, because there's always a bigger, badder bigot behind them waiting to show how their smaller world is better.
Musical bigotry is stupid, but I still hate Rap  laugh

PP

Difference between not liking something and saying that someone else can't like or play it. Smiley
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« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2011, 03:00:35 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

What the heck, Habte? Schultz mentions one of the tracks that popularized the term reggae in the first place back in the 1960s, and you respond about Shaggy and whatever? Pretty lame, my friend.

Thats ok, I don't need to draw out my reggae archivist credentials to explain myself here, my opinion is clearly self-evident sans the discography Smiley 

I have openly admitted that I am a music snob about this, but I don't see how that has got folks so worked up? Y'all are free to your opinions, and I haven't discredited others ideas, I have simply been explaining myself so y'all can understand where I am coming from as a reggae musician and a Rastaman.  And brothers like Joe Higgs, Jimmy Cliff, brother Toots Hibert, Desmond Dekker, Alton Ellis, Ken Boothe, and many others were very much affiliated with the early Trenchtown reggae scene which was very much Rastafari affiliated, so to  try to use those artists as a trump card isn't exactly accurate.  We are free to have a difference of musical opinions without being nasty about it can't we?

Bigotry? Not exactly, but I will admit to a biased viewpoint as to how I define reggae music.  Folks are free to start imitation reggae bands, and as a reggae muscian I am free to critique their style and definiton aren't I?  Y'all are also free to express your opinions, and I see where y'all are coming from, but I politely disagree while openyl admitting my biases Smiley

Musical bigotry is stupid, plain and simple, and it's not worth arguing with those that espouse it, because there's always a bigger, badder bigot behind them waiting to show how their smaller world is better.
Musical bigotry is stupid, but I still hate Rap  laugh

PP

Difference between not liking something and saying that someone else can't like or play it. Smiley

I never said folks couldn't like reggae, but what I am precisely arguing is that some of these groups are not reggae at all, despite what the Rolling Stones magazine writers or the SoundScan numbers define the genre by, as a Rastafari brother my definition of what is reggae may be biased, but it remains different from the mainstream, and I openly acknowledge that.  What I am interjecting here is my opinion.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2011, 03:32:19 PM »

Hahaha. Thanks, Habte. I needed a good laugh today. "Reggae archivist". I think that is a most fitting jurisdiction for you.

I figure we're all nerds about something. While reggae is not my thing, there are other things I could play a snob card about (and have). There is a difference, however, between sharing knowledge that you have so that other people will know where you stand, and throwing out a bunch of stuff so as to try to make your entirely subjective opinion about something seem as though it's the gospel truth (especially about something as silly as who should be playing reggae and who shouldn't; if you're a musician, why not let other people be musicians too and just not buy their stuff if you don't like it, rather than trashing them for stealing your culture?). That seems to be what people are respond to in this thread, not that you think you're right and they're not. Obviously everybody thinks that they're right and their detractors are not. I think your opinion is wrong here but I'm not going to tell you you can't have it, and especially not going to say that you can't have it because you're stealing the culture of the reggae musicians because you're some guy from L.A. and not Kingston or whatever.
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« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2011, 03:41:29 PM »

Im sorry, a musical genre (which reggae is now, whether you like it or not) is not based upon beliefs or racial selectivism. There are certian progressions, notational charistics, time signatures, and scale compositions that pretty much help classify what a musical genre is. I'll give you an example.

The majority (not all but alot) of blues is set up in a major pentatonic scale with a 12 bar, 1-4-5 progression. It does not matter if I am a diabetic black guy, or I'm from Texas, the Delta, Memphis, or Chicago. Case in point: Eric Clapton.

The idea that Reggae is not reggae if they are not Rastafari is no longer relevant, thanks to a certian Rasta that made it popular......

Now Im not saying its a good thing or bad, but its a fact of life because people took the original artists and ran with what they introduced.


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« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2011, 03:57:54 PM »

Of course, you are allowed to have your own opinion.

I'm also allowed to have mine and publicly call you out on your ridiculous assertions as you cast aspersions on the soul of another.

Saying someone is "using" reggae as vehicle for commercialism as opposed to a true love of the genre is most definitely calling someone (in this case, someone who isn't even around to defend himself) a liar.

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« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2011, 04:02:32 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


Of course, you are allowed to have your own opinion.

I'm also allowed to have mine and publicly call you out on your ridiculous assertions as you cast aspersions on the soul of another.

Saying someone is "using" reggae as vehicle for commercialism as opposed to a true love of the genre is most definitely calling someone (in this case, someone who isn't even around to defend himself) a liar.



Agreed completely, and you can call me ridiculous and I am not too concerned with that, it is your freedom of expression, but I can also counter it with my own assertions, and I precisely intended to accuse Matisyahu of "lying" when he uses pseudo-reggae music to promote his blatantly Jewish agenda and also make mad boatloads of duckets doing it, call me old fashioned but its hard enough for me to embrace Bob Marley making all this crazy commercial money and success let alone folks who aren't even Rastafari.  It'd be like an openly Muslim Gospel band with no inetions of Christianity, folks surely would have a hard time swallowing that, and I feel the same way about non-Rastafari su-called reggae music.
Im sorry, a musical genre (which reggae is now, whether you like it or not) is not based upon beliefs or racial selectivism. There are certian progressions, notational charistics, time signatures, and scale compositions that pretty much help classify what a musical genre is. I'll give you an example.

The majority (not all but alot) of blues is set up in a major pentatonic scale with a 12 bar, 1-4-5 progression. It does not matter if I am a diabetic black guy, or I'm from Texas, the Delta, Memphis, or Chicago. Case in point: Eric Clapton.

The idea that Reggae is not reggae if they are not Rastafari is no longer relevant, thanks to a certian Rasta that made it popular......

Now Im not saying its a good thing or bad, but its a fact of life because people took the original artists and ran with what they introduced.


PP

Please allow me to explain Smiley

I am discussing the ethos and pathos of Reggae music, not just the structure, timing, or chord signatures.  Reggae, like punk or Gospel, is not just a purely stylistic genre of music, it really has an accompanying lifestyle and culture which is what I am discussing.  When I say Matisyahu isn't reggae, I am speaking to the ethos and pathos.  The ethos of reggae is directly related to the experience of the Rastafari culture, and so if folks aren't Rastafari they aren't exactly following this original reggae ethos. The pathos of reggae is a bit more universal, it is an appeal to the political ideology of liberation and equality, as well as the spiritual manifestation of One Love.  Of course, amongst the Rastafari community, the specific pathos of reggae is an appeal to the specifically Rastafari experience, which is why Rastafari people proclaim that "reggae is the sound and horn of the Nyahbinghi" which is  Rastafari movement.

Nyahbinghi means "death to all downpressors" but not in the literal sense, more correctly could be interpreted as "death to all oppression" and while this is the universal appeal that attracts both militant punks and casual listeners to Bob Marley who have a heart for One Love, the specific context and connotation of the Nyahbinghi is that liberation from oppression and inequality comes from Emperor Haile Selassie.  This is why then I proclaim that folks who are not part of the Rastafari affiliation, are not exactly reggae in  a cultural sense.  Further, as a musician, the specific subtleties of reggae music are hard to explain, its not as simple as saying us this time pattern, this strum pattern, or this chord signature, because the approach, the attack, and the implementation is not as easy to explain, and from m EAR< most groups including Matisyahu aren't really duplicating that authentic real reggae SOUND from the foundation artists.  So really from my perspective, these folks are neither stylistically or culturally reggae, because musically  it takes more than just a ka-chank strum on the Am chord to be reggae Wink

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2011, 04:06:23 PM »

I do get tired of the commercialism nonsense. Bob Marley, I believe did not give his albums away for free......

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Im sorry, a musical genre (which reggae is now, whether you like it or not) is not based upon beliefs or racial selectivism. There are certian progressions, notational charistics, time signatures, and scale compositions that pretty much help classify what a musical genre is. I'll give you an example.

The majority (not all but alot) of blues is set up in a major pentatonic scale with a 12 bar, 1-4-5 progression. It does not matter if I am a diabetic black guy, or I'm from Texas, the Delta, Memphis, or Chicago. Case in point: Eric Clapton.

The idea that Reggae is not reggae if they are not Rastafari is no longer relevant, thanks to a certian Rasta that made it popular......

Now Im not saying its a good thing or bad, but its a fact of life because people took the original artists and ran with what they introduced.


PP

Please allow me to explain Smiley

I am discussing the ethos and pathos of Reggae music, not just the structure, timing, or chord signatures.  Reggae, like punk or Gospel, is not just a purely stylistic genre of music, it really has an accompanying lifestyle and culture which is what I am discussing.  When I say Matisyahu isn't reggae, I am speaking to the ethos and pathos.  The ethos of reggae is directly related to the experience of the Rastafari culture, and so if folks aren't Rastafari they aren't exactly following this original reggae ethos. The pathos of reggae is a bit more universal, it is an appeal to the political ideology of liberation and equality, as well as the spiritual manifestation of One Love.  Of course, amongst the Rastafari community, the specific pathos of reggae is an appeal to the specifically Rastafari experience, which is why Rastafari people proclaim that "reggae is the sound and horn of the Nyahbinghi" which is  Rastafari movement.

Nyahbinghi means "death to all downpressors" but not in the literal sense, more correctly could be interpreted as "death to all oppression" and while this is the universal appeal that attracts both militant punks and casual listeners to Bob Marley who have a heart for One Love, the specific context and connotation of the Nyahbinghi is that liberation from oppression and inequality comes from Emperor Haile Selassie.  This is why then I proclaim that folks who are not part of the Rastafari affiliation, are not exactly reggae in  a cultural sense.  Further, as a musician, the specific subtleties of reggae music are hard to explain, its not as simple as saying us this time pattern, this strum pattern, or this chord signature, because the approach, the attack, and the implementation is not as easy to explain, and from m EAR< most groups including Matisyahu aren't really duplicating that authentic real reggae SOUND from the foundation artists.  So really from my perspective, these folks are neither stylistically or culturally reggae, because musically  it takes more than just a ka-chank strum on the Am chord to be reggae Wink

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Unfortunately, not all agree on that. I understand your emotional connection to this music and you feel that it is not truly Reggae, but for every one of you that share that opinion, there are 100 that dont.

PP
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« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2011, 04:11:02 PM »

I find Habte statements very funny laugh
The whole paradox is Habte you want to be offended that Matisyahu is stealing your culture in music but yet you want to steal Matisyahus culture by claiming your rastafari cult jewishness.
 At least Joe Smith came up with his own cult Identity to make Mormonism but the lame rastafari was so lazy they just tried to copy my history word for word and then claim it as there own Roll Eyes
 
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« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2011, 04:14:45 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


Of course, you are allowed to have your own opinion.

I'm also allowed to have mine and publicly call you out on your ridiculous assertions as you cast aspersions on the soul of another.

Saying someone is "using" reggae as vehicle for commercialism as opposed to a true love of the genre is most definitely calling someone (in this case, someone who isn't even around to defend himself) a liar.



Agreed completely, and you can call me ridiculous and I am not too concerned with that, it is your freedom of expression, but I can also counter it with my own assertions, and I precisely intended to accuse Matisyahu of "lying" when he uses pseudo-reggae music to promote his blatantly Jewish agenda and also make mad boatloads of duckets doing it, call me old fashioned but its hard enough for me to embrace Bob Marley making all this crazy commercial money and success let alone folks who aren't even Rastafari.  It'd be like an openly Muslim Gospel band with no inetions of Christianity, folks surely would have a hard time swallowing that, and I feel the same way about non-Rastafari su-called reggae music.

You are really living in a dream world if you think Matisyahu makes all sorts of money as a musician.  While his concerts are certainly well attended, he's not that popular nor does he sell that many records.

The estate of Bob Marley makes more money in a month than Matisyahu makes all year.
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« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2011, 05:07:28 PM »

It seems that if Matisyahu's motivation was 'just to make money'- an assessment no one can make, because they're not in his mind- and he did what he just did to his persona, then he will make less money under whatever is his new identity. Sounds like the two ends of that sentence contradict each other.

He studied with rabbis. I don't think he earned anything from that.

As we approach the celebration of the birth of Our Lord and Savior, maybe we all need to watch it.

 Huh

Matthew 7

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    2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.

    3 And why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye?

    4 Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye?

    5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
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« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2011, 05:23:51 PM »

I wonder if anybody thinks this guy is 'faking it.'

I don't think so.
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« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2011, 06:46:01 PM »

It is reassuring to see that the status of the Orthodox and Roman Catholic relationship is not the ONLY subject some get lathered up about here!   Wink Wink
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« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2011, 06:52:15 PM »

I would have put the over / under of posts in this thread at 6.

Who knew?
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« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2011, 07:01:38 PM »

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1mdgg_prince-controversy_music

All the things people say...  Wink
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« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2011, 08:09:20 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
It is reassuring to see that the status of the Orthodox and Roman Catholic relationship is not the ONLY subject some get lathered up about here!   Wink Wink

I don't like reggae.. oh no..

I LOVE IT!!

stay blessed,
habte selassie

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« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2011, 10:20:23 PM »

HabteSellasie,

I have a question for you my friend... As a long time reggae enthuisiast, and as a person who shares with both you and Gebre an initial rastafarian inspiration that eventually developed into an interest in the orthodox church through absorbing the witness of HIM Hailie Selasie, I wonder on occasion about these rastas who dabble in dancehall and ragga music-- Buju Banton comes to mind, sizzla, Capleton... are these ones expressing true Rastafari?  I don't question their credentials as Rastafari (or maybe I do), but I see them adapting Rastafari message to a different form of Reggae, one modeled around a "slack" interpretation of that music.  It is hard for me to understand therefore how original roots is connected to Rastafari in this fundamental way when supposed genuine Rastafari are entering into a form of the music that is not roots and in fact expresses a very different "vibration".

Also, what of bands like Groundation?  They make some amazing reggae music.  Their "theology" is very fuzzy, kind of like Matisyahu, but the music... ahh the sweet reggae music...
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« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2011, 10:33:58 PM »

I am mostly in agreement with brother Habte on this matter. However, I personally think Matisyahu was much closer to being a true reggae artist than Christafari (and certainly much more of an authentic reggae artist than the slackness of Sean Paul, Shaggy, and the likes of such foolishness). Matisyahu was true to his Judaic roots, which is much closer to Rastafari than the evangelicalism of Christafari. However, I never could get into Matisyahu too much, because true reggae will always lead you to Rastafari, and Rastafari will always point to Ethiopia, His Majesty, and ultimately to the Tewahedo Faith- which Matisyahu never seemed interested in examining. But I think Matisyahu was sincere, and not crassly commercial. But I could be naive. As InI Rastafari say, "JAH know."

I will also say that I don't think it's fair to attack brother Habte for his views on what constitutes authentic reggae music. Reggae music can never be separated from the roots. It is the music of the people, and it is not exclusive to any one particular people. But it is inextricably intertwined with Rastafari culture and livity, which is founded upon the Holy Bible. So, regardless of the riddim, if the music is not glorifying JAH and expressing the values and ethos of Rastafari, then it is only an immitation.

There is nothing wrong with being an artistic purist.

That's my two cents on the matter, FWIW.

Let us pray for Matisyahu. Wouldn't it be awesome if he were on the verge of embracing Orthodoxy- Christian Orthodoxy that is?!  Wink


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« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2011, 02:30:58 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

HabteSellasie,

I have a question for you my friend... As a long time reggae enthuisiast, and as a person who shares with both you and Gebre an initial rastafarian inspiration that eventually developed into an interest in the orthodox church through absorbing the witness of HIM Hailie Selasie, I wonder on occasion about these rastas who dabble in dancehall and ragga music-- Buju Banton comes to mind, sizzla, Capleton... are these ones expressing true Rastafari?  I don't question their credentials as Rastafari (or maybe I do), but I see them adapting Rastafari message to a different form of Reggae, one modeled around a "slack" interpretation of that music.  It is hard for me to understand therefore how original roots is connected to Rastafari in this fundamental way when supposed genuine Rastafari are entering into a form of the music that is not roots and in fact expresses a very different "vibration".

Also, what of bands like Groundation?  They make some amazing reggae music.  Their "theology" is very fuzzy, kind of like Matisyahu, but the music... ahh the sweet reggae music...

Sizzla and Capleton are most definitely Rastafari certified, both lyrically and culturally in his lifestyle, though true they most definitely delve outside of the stylees of purist reggae and jump into what is sometimes called "roots dancehall". Groups like Groundation are at the least Rastafari affiliated because on their albums are The Congos, Ijahman Levi, Ras Michael and the Sons of Negus, the Great Don Carlos, and so clearly these brothers from Groundation are more Rastafari recognized than folks like Matisyahu. Also, in Groundation's lyrics are definitely Rastafari themes, symbolism, and imagery. And stylistically, Groundation captures more of the subtle essentials of reggae music than Matisyahu or many other reggae-ish groups, there is a HUGE but SUBTLE difference between reggaeISH groups, and pure reggae music, and Groundation definitely is roots reggae with its blend of all the appropriate subtleties.  Its hard to explain, but the strum patterns, chord changes, fills, bass lines, harmonies, drum patterns, timing, cadence, tone, and accents are very specific in reggae, and also easy to imitate but surprisingly difficult and intricate to replicate.  Really, it is a function of the heart, just like true blues is only two chords, but it takes a real and true bluesman to play the real kind of blues, from the heart, dig?


 But it is inextricably intertwined with Rastafari culture and livity, which is founded upon the Holy Bible. So, regardless of the riddim, if the music is not glorifying JAH and expressing the values and ethos of Rastafari, then it is only an immitation.

There is nothing wrong with being an artistic purist.

Amen Amen! If you ain't from the Chitlin Circuit, you really ain't blues is you? If you ain't got that soul, are you really Mo-Town? If you ain't got those blastbeats are you really hardcore or crust punk? If you ain't sung in the Church, are you really Gospel? And if you ain't Rastafari, are you really reggae?

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
Jason.Wike
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« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2011, 09:47:13 PM »

What a weird thread. Just imagine a bunch of Irish people who've gotten hooked on Bulgarian inspired American Polka music, decide to become Orthodox, identify as some kind of quasi-Bulgarian, fight and argue over who is "really a Bulgarian" and constantly talk down to Bulgarians about their own history and identity, and who can play Bulgarian American Polka music, and you'll sum up a bunch of recent threads including this one.

As far as I'm concerned the analogies fit 100%... it really is that ridiculous.
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« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2011, 11:26:45 PM »

What a weird thread. Just imagine a bunch of Irish people who've gotten hooked on Bulgarian inspired American Polka music, decide to become Orthodox, identify as some kind of quasi-Bulgarian, fight and argue over who is "really a Bulgarian" and constantly talk down to Bulgarians about their own history and identity, and who can play Bulgarian American Polka music, and you'll sum up a bunch of recent threads including this one.

As far as I'm concerned the analogies fit 100%... it really is that ridiculous.

Post of the Month! About time someone with a bit of sanity spoke up here!
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« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2011, 09:42:15 PM »

Update: he did a show in Colorado, and apparently a good time was had by all.

http://blogs.westword.com/backbeat/2011/12/review_matisyahu_ogden_theatre_121711.php
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« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2011, 09:45:04 PM »

Pfft. That's not Jamaica, you phony.
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« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2011, 10:32:15 PM »


I will also say that I don't think it's fair to attack brother Habte for his views on what constitutes authentic reggae music. Reggae music can never be separated from the roots. It is the music of the people, and it is not exclusive to any one particular people. But it is inextricably intertwined with Rastafari culture and livity, which is founded upon the Holy Bible. So, regardless of the riddim, if the music is not glorifying JAH and expressing the values and ethos of Rastafari, then it is only an immitation.


I think it's pretty well established that the roots of reggae have nothing to do with Rastafari, but rather with American R&B through ska through rocksteady through reggae.

Rasta didn't factor into it until well into the 1970s, long after Lynn Tait had created the riddim we know as reggae.
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