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Author Topic: Considering Converting, Unsure about this Issue...  (Read 8242 times) Average Rating: 0
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CDenquirer
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« on: December 13, 2011, 02:31:49 AM »

I've been learning more about Orthodoxy, and feel drawn to it.  Coming from a protestant evangelical background I was concerned about how I would feel being in an Orthodox Church.  After attending an Orthodox service it was pleasantly surprising to find how comfortable I was with all the differences in worship.

There is one issue in my life that has led me to this point of considering conversion.  I find that my protestant pastor is not much help in dealing with it.  I wonder what to expect from an Orthodox priest.

I'm a crossdresser.  I've struggled with it over the years in light of Deuteronomy 22:5.  Is my path to righteousness bound to following that old testament Law of Moses?  I've concluded that it's not - that righteousness is not found in obeying the letter of the law.

What I've received in discussing this with my pastor is mild condemnation, and instruction that I need to immediately repent of this 'sin'.  I can't repent sincerely when I don't believe it to be a sin.  Either the Holy Spirit is not condemning me for this, or I'm hardened in my sin to the extent that I can't recognize the internal condemnation of the Spirit.

This is what has led me to Orthodoxy.  I have no reason to believe that my protestant pastor is more in touch with the Holy Spirit than I am.  If I am going to sincerely accept that crossdressing is a sin, then I think I need the help of what appears to me to be the true apostolic faith.

I haven't discussed this yet with the local Orthodox priest.  Should I expect to be told to get down on my knees and repent immediately?  Alternatively, will I find some attempt at understanding my dilemma, and assistance in working toward either sincere repentance or freedom of acceptance?
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2011, 03:28:44 AM »

Should I expect to be told to get down on my knees and repent immediately?  Alternatively, will I find some attempt at understanding my dilemma, and assistance in working toward either sincere repentance or freedom of acceptance?
Welcome.

Ideally, you will receive the latter. I cannot imagine a normal priest ordering someone around who has approached him to inquire about the faith.

But just as you want people to respect your struggle, you must be prepared to accept the fallenness of others, be they priests or otherwise.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 03:30:44 AM by NicholasMyra » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2011, 03:44:37 AM »

I am happy to hear that you are considering converting to the Orthodox Faith.  I admit that I am not knowledgeable about the issue of cross dressing, or the Orthodox position on it.  Of course you need to discuss this with a priest, keeping in mind that priests are human too and what one priest may say to you might not be exactly the counsel you would receive from another.  Differences in jurisdiction could play a part as well.

The following link about cross dressing and Christianity is from a Protestant perspective, but I thought it contained some useful advice.  Perhaps it will be of help to you:

http://www.firststone.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=84&Itemid=17

I will remember you in my prayers.
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« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2011, 09:54:22 AM »

If I could make a humble recommendation, I would encourage you, if you are interested in Orthodoxy, to look into the Orthodox Church primarily to determine if it is the true Church which the Lord established on the foundation of the Holy Apostles, if its teachings are consistent with what the Church taught from the earliest centuries, and if it continues to produce saints who exhibit the same fruits of the Spirit that can be read about in the book of Acts.  If one is convinced that the Orthodox Church has maintained the full truth regarding God and man, and has maintained in its fullness the way of salvation and theosis; and if one is convinced of one’s need for salvation; then one will gladly seek to be united with the Orthodox Church for the right reasons and will bear much spiritual fruit.  It is very difficult for all of us who are Orthodox Christians to conform our lives to Christ, to struggle courageously against our passions, and to come to the likeness of Christ for which we were created.  However, knowing that salvation is found only in the true Church, and seeing the countless saints who have gone before us, who have fought the good fight, who have been glorified by God on earth and in heaven, we find courage to struggle against all that keeps us from God and which may deprive us of an eternal inheritance.   

That said, probably the worst thing you could do for your soul is to take a desire or attraction (any desire or attraction) and find out first if a church agrees with or accepts such a desire or attraction as “good” or “from God”, and only then consider joining such a “church”.  One can find many clubs and groups that are set up to cater to various interests, and they may provide a sense of community which may give some limited consolation while on earth.  But, if you are interested in saving your soul, first find out where the way of salvation has been maintained in its fullness, find where the true Church established by Christ for the salvation of man is to be found, and then strive to bring all your thoughts and desires into conformity with Christ and the teachings which He has given us for our salvation.  The healing of our souls and our salvation is only possible if we are humble, if we are willing to question ALL of our thoughts and desires with the intent of bringing all into conformity with Christ.  If we try to “do good” or “serve Christ” but we cling to any one desire or attraction that we are not willing to abandon for Christ, that one thought or desire can undermine and overthrow any good that we might otherwise be working toward.  We have to remember that Judas was a disciple of Christ, he gave up everything for Christ and even performed miracles, yet even after abandoning all he continued to nurtured a secret love of money that probably went unnoticed by most.  However seemingly small and innocent was this love of money, his unwillingness to part with this one desire caused him to become a servant of Satan and a betrayer of Christ.  We all have the potential to be a Judas if we are not willing to let go of all of our desires and attractions in order to conform entirely to the will of God. 

The Orthodox Church is not for the perfect, but for the sinner who is heavy laden with many sins and trials.  For the sinner who desires salvation above all, the Church has everything necessary to heal the soul and lead one to Christ.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 10:16:49 AM by jah777 » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2011, 10:25:31 AM »

I don't have much to add - so I just wanted you to know that I'm praying for you. Smiley

I know that everything I've heard from the Orthodox Church since I've been a member has shown not only a clear understanding and reasonable wise teaching but an incredible amount of compassion.  I've received GOOD honest support and love to help me in all my struggles.  I am hopeful that you will receive the same, no matter what they are.

Lord have mercy!
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« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2011, 11:38:52 AM »

Is cross-dressing a sin in Christianity?
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« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2011, 12:49:51 PM »

Is cross-dressing a sin in Christianity?

I think that's an interesting question. As I understand it, cross dressing is often something apart from homosexuality.

So for example, if an Orthodox Christian is an actor and plays the part of a Woman, is he sinning? I bet not.

If cross dressing is done for sexual titillation then that would be the category it should fall into, exacerbating the passions, which is rather ordinary for most people. For some people it can be more serious.

Now if you show up to church dressed as a woman it would be causing a scandal which is something more serious.

But if done in privacy, perhaps as a means of self expression, seems pretty minor to me..

Please excuse my speculations. I actually know nothing. Consult a wise Priest.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 12:52:13 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2011, 02:43:07 PM »

Now if you show up to church dressed as a woman it would be causing a scandal which is something more serious.
Would it? I imagine people should simply keep their mouths shut about such things.
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« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2011, 03:05:20 PM »

Now if you show up to church dressed as a woman it would be causing a scandal which is something more serious.
Would it? I imagine people should simply keep their mouths shut about such things.
Yes, they should. But try to convince someone under six or over eighty  Wink.
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« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2011, 03:55:08 PM »

Are you looking for the truth, or are you looking for a Church that accepts your version of the truth?

In the Orthodox Church we believe that sin is missing the mark set for us by God. It doesn't matter by how much, if we have missed the mark we have sinned.

You say that you believe that cross dressing is not a sin because you don't feel convicted as such. If a sociopath feels no remorse for killing someone, does that make their actions any less sinful?

Please understand that I am not equating cross dressing with killing a human being. I am merely making the point that we cannot trust our own feelings as to judging whether or not something is sinful.

I am not God, nor am I a priest, so I cannot instruct you on whether what you are doing is right or wrong. I would advise that you do some serious soul searching, speak to a priest, and try to find out what it is about Orthodoxy that attracts you. If it is seeking the Church that Christ established and living in word and truth, then you have found the right place. If it is seeking a Church that will tell you what you want to hear, I suggest you move on.
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« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2011, 04:09:36 PM »

There are things (behaviors, activities, choices) that move us closer to God and also things that move us farther away. We are not always the best judge of this, since we have an infinite capacity for rationalization so that we can continue doing what we want to do - no matter what.
The Church forces us to be honest with ourselves, and we often learn hard lessons about our "pet" sins.
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« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2011, 04:10:11 PM »

I think it will help you to contact a priest.
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« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2011, 04:18:26 PM »

Now if you show up to church dressed as a woman it would be causing a scandal which is something more serious.
Would it? I imagine people should simply keep their mouths shut about such things.
Yes, they should. But try to convince someone under six or over eighty  Wink.

Would you say there is a 50/50 chance of causing a stir ? Shocked
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« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2011, 04:47:24 PM »

Now if you show up to church dressed as a woman it would be causing a scandal which is something more serious.
Would it? I imagine people should simply keep their mouths shut about such things.
Yes, they should. But try to convince someone under six or over eighty  Wink.

Would you say there is a 50/50 chance of causing a stir ? Shocked
Not sure if "stir" is the right word. More of an awkward moment even though no harm or offence is intended.
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« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2011, 04:56:41 PM »

Search your soul in private:

Why do you crossdress?

Is it to seek attention? Would you go to Divine Liturgy dressed as a woman and then possibly scandalize others?

Is it to stimulate desire? Would that desire be appropriate for a Christian?

Again, a previous poster mentioned that sinning is missing the mark.
We are to put on Christ, and our behavior should edify those around us.

Are you willing to put on Christ and put aside anything that would not be of Christ?

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« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2011, 02:09:15 AM »

Thanks everyone for your gentle and kind responses.  You can't know how much that means!

I'll try to speak to several of the points made and questions asked.

Regarding the concern that I am merely looking for a place that will tell me what I want to hear; My understanding is that the Catholic church does not take a specific stance on crossdressing.  It seems likely that a Catholic priest would generally not be condemning toward this activity.  But the more I learned more about Roman Catholicism, the less likely it seemed that I could accept all that would be required of me to join it.

Despite my misgivings about some aspects, there is a lot about Catholicism that rings true to me.  Along the way I started learning about the Orthodox faith.  It has all the things that I find attractive about Catholicism, with none of what I find to be objectionable.  So, in answer to the concerns that I'm looking for support more than truth, I can assure you that it's the truth I'm after.

To answer the last few direct questions:

Why do you crossdress?  It is self-expression and a somewhat artistic outlet.  I am interested in women's fashions, makeup, hairstyles, etc.  I find satisfaction in putting together the right outfit with the right hairstyle, a complete look.  There is something fulfilling about creating that feminine image.  When I dress up, which is only occasionally, I will usually go clothes or shoe shopping, grocery shopping, or go out to dinner with friends.

Is it to seek attention?  No.  Quite the opposite.  When I dress up I do my best to wear reasonable clothing.  The last thing I want to do is attract attention.  I only want to be left alone to go about my business.  This is usually what happens.  I get very few odd looks, and almost no negative reactions.

Would you go to Divine Liturgy dressed as a woman and then possibly scandalize others?  No.  Not because I wouldn't like to go.  Only because I know it would make other people uncomfortable.  I would never want to be a distraction.

Is it to stimulate desire?  In no way.  I don't seek to stimulate any desire, sexual or otherwise, in myself or especially in others.

Are you willing to put on Christ and put aside anything that would not be of Christ?  I want to believe that I am willing.  If I could hear God, or if I could talk with Jesus, and this was His request, there would be no second thought about it.  But so far, He hasn't made it that easy for me.  I'm left to try to understand  based on the information at hand.

Can I love God and love my neighbor, and still be a crossdresser?  If I can't, then I need some serious help to understand why not.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 02:11:39 AM by CDenquirer » Logged
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« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2011, 04:27:26 AM »

CDenquirer,


We all have a cross to bear, and so the real issue is:


Can you suffer? Can you persevere through suffering, pain and discomfort?
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« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2011, 06:13:51 AM »

Now if you show up to church dressed as a woman it would be causing a scandal which is something more serious.

But if a man comes to church dressed as a woman, does he have to wear a headscarve?
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« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2011, 07:10:19 AM »

CDenquirer,


We all have a cross to bear....

For a moment, I thought you were going to say, "We all have a cross to dress..." Shocked
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« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2011, 08:25:55 AM »

Can I love God and love my neighbor, and still be a crossdresser?  If I can't, then I need some serious help to understand why not.


Then the best thing to do would be to develop a connection with a local Orthodox church which you might wish to join at a later date, and to get to know the priest of that parish.  As you get to know the faith and develop a relationship with the priest, you will get a sense of what Orthodoxy is all about and whether the faith is something you are able and willing to embrace.  When you are serious in your desire to enter the Orthodox Church after spending some time in the parish, then it would be good to discuss this and other personal issues with the priest in the context of your desire to convert.  Any Orthodox priest should be eager to help you with any concern or issue you might have, but if for some unfortunate reason the priest is not of help, you may try to consult with another Orthodox priest. 
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« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2011, 10:47:00 AM »


Are you willing to put on Christ and put aside anything that would not be of Christ?  I want to believe that I am willing.  If I could hear God, or if I could talk with Jesus, and this was His request, there would be no second thought about it.  But so far, He hasn't made it that easy for me.  I'm left to try to understand  based on the information at hand.

Can I love God and love my neighbor, and still be a crossdresser?  If I can't, then I need some serious help to understand why not.
Thank you for the entire response from which I have quoted. Thank you especially for your honesty in this specific part. I regularly have to pray for belief when my own faith seems to fail me in my own struggles.

Let me encourage you to focus on God as the Orthodox do. When I first came into contact with the Orthodox Church I was struck with the intensity of the devotion towards God in our services. As I pursued that avenue first in church, then in my personal prayers, I began to develop a different perspective on the issues that used to be an impediment to my spiritual growth.

From Philippians 3:
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12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you. 16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.
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« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2011, 11:39:08 AM »

I think it's also important to point out that the Church calls each of us to be transformed by the renewing of our minds through a life of radical repentance. That transformation is always challenging and often times very painful. Setting aside the issue of cross dressing anyone wishing to enter the Church must be prepared to accept that. If you are willing to accept that and genuinely join the struggle then the question of cross dressing will work itself out one way or the other.
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« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2011, 11:46:13 AM »

One thing about the Orthodox is that you not likely find a Priest who will look it up in a book of rules and give you a flat yes or no. The Eastern Christian paradigm is that of a Hospital rather than a court of law as in the West.

The advice to get to know a Priest and have him get to know you is best. Or you can visit a Monastery and find a good Spiritual Father there. You then need to decide the question of obedience. If the diagnosis for you personally is to stop cross dressing, will you listen to your Spiritual Physician?

From afar it's hard to get a clear picture of whether or not you would be willing to submit yourself and give up something you like to do. But once everyone gets to know each other, you may see a greater more desirable goal and will do whats necessary.

 When the young man asked Jesus about attaining salvation he was already engaged in Love of God and neighbor. The Lord praised him but then ask him for even more.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 11:49:48 AM by Marc1152 » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2011, 12:34:17 AM »

Thanks again for all the nice responses.  I sense that many of you would have a lot more to say, but it wouldn't conform to the purpose of this particular part of the forum.  Would anyone be willing to delve deeper into the question of whether or not crossdressing is a sin?  If so, what part of the forum would be appropriate?

I wanted to respond to come of the other comments:

Quote
The following link about cross dressing and Christianity is from a Protestant perspective, but I thought it contained some useful advice.  Perhaps it will be of help to you:

I've read that site many times, and have even had some correspondence with the author.  Unfortunately, his experience is not the same as many other sincere Christians who are dealing with this issue in their life.

The question is not whether it is possible to abstain as bearing a cross.  It is possible to abstain.  I've done it for years at a time.  I've found, though, that the fruits of abstention are not good.  The real question is:

Quote
Is cross-dressing a sin in Christianity?

The early Christian Jews were convinced that gentile converts should be circumcised and follow the Law.  Lucky for us, Paul stood up for freedom in Christ.  Paul could have gone with the flow, played it safe, and sided with the Judaizers.  Wouldn't a simple circumcision procedure be a good trade for eternal salvation?  Paul said circumcision to attain righteousness counts for nothing.  I feel compelled to ask the same question about another verse from the Law, namely Dueteronomy 22:5.  If I can gain righteousness by not crossdressing, then why did Jesus have to go to the cross?

Quote
As I understand it, cross dressing is often something apart from homosexuality.

This is my experience.  I've never been confused about my sexual orientation.  I have an unblemished record of heterosexuality.

Quote
You say that you believe that cross dressing is not a sin because you don't feel convicted as such.

That is not at all what I'm saying.  I'm leaving open the possibility that I am unable to recognize it as a sin internally/spiritually.  Intellectually, I have serious questions about whether or not abstaining from this will help or hinder the working out of my salvation.

Quote
If a sociopath feels no remorse for killing someone, does that make their actions any less sinful?

That's not a fair comparison.  Even an atheist can agree that the sociopath is wrong to murder.  We have incontrovertible teaching in the new covenant that it is wrong.  Crossdressing is not comparable to murder in any way.  I'm not speaking of severity of the action.  I'm talking about our ability to objectively know based on scripture and reason that crossdressing is a sin.  Is there sacred tradition in Orthodox history that count it as sin?

Quote
Can you suffer? Can you persevere through suffering, pain and discomfort?

I understand that Christians may be called to endure suffering.  But I'm concerned if you offer this as a description of the life you think a Christian should live.  I hope it won't come to this.  I much prefer to live in the fruits of the Spirit.

If it does come to that then I believe I can persevere.  In fact, I believe that if I'm convinced that crossdressing is a sin, then it will be relatively painless to walk away from it.  As an example, for most of my life I never felt guilt when fantasizing about physical intimacy with a woman outside of marriage.  Then one day Jesus' words about committing adultery in our hearts clicked with me.  I don't find it the least bit of a burden to avoid those thoughts.  Not because I feel guilty about it, but because I understand that it is sinful.

I appreciate the recommendations to talk to a priest.  I've already met with the local Orthodox priest and attended a service (though we didn't discuss this issue).  I plan to start attending regularly after the first of the year.

Lastly, I would sincerely appreciate an open dialogue on this topic.  There is nothing you can say to me that is worse that what has already been said to my face by others!   This quote sums up what I'm hoping to find in the Orthodox church:

Quote
The Eastern Christian paradigm is that of a Hospital rather than a court of law as in the West.

Somebody get me a doctor!  Smiley
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« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2011, 12:47:50 AM »

I understand that Christians may be called to endure suffering.  But I'm concerned if you offer this as a description of the life you think a Christian should live.  I hope it won't come to this.  I much prefer to live in the fruits of the Spirit.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong (a mere catechumen), but I think your preference is sort of anti-thetical to Orthodoxy.* The works of the Fathers are filled with references to asceticism, refraining from gluttony and indulging carnal desires, fasting from both food and sexual relations with one's spouse at times, etc. Abstention IS a VERY big part of the faith -- it, arguably, is one of the tools that leads us to theosis.

I understand where you are coming from, as I was once there myself. Fasting for the rest of my life, on a set schedule, has been hard to swallow. Not indulging in certain desires has been hard to swallow. Even things that some Christians may view as permissible -- overeating, smoking, drinking -- must be constantly checked so as to not be in excess. In some cases, we must abstain from them completely.

It is not for the weak of heart. I am not saying that you are weak of heart, CDenquirer, but I am saying that a good Orthodox life is not an easy one. I am frightened at times, frightened that I will have to address more than my sin, but other issues that may indirectly or directly cause me to sin.

I hope your meeting with the priest goes well. Smiley


*EDIT: Just wanted to note that living in the fruits of the Spirit IS not anti-thetical to Orthodoxy....but rather, it sounded like you were espousing the idea found in many Evangelical churches. Emphasize the good and the bad will cease on its own(define good and bad as you may). Unfortunately things don't quite work that way...
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« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2011, 01:13:28 AM »

Abstention IS a VERY big part of the faith -- it, arguably, is one of the tools that leads us to theosis.

Yes.  I need to come to understand this more clearly.  I"m not afraid of it, I just need to understand the utility of it.

Quote
I hope your meeting with the priest goes well. Smiley

Thanks.  He seems like a nice guy.  I'm looking forward to it.

Quote
*EDIT: Just wanted to note that living in the fruits of the Spirit IS not anti-thetical to Orthodoxy....but rather, it sounded like you were espousing the idea found in many Evangelical churches.

If you mean (I'm not even sure of the exact phrases) "prosperity gospel", "name it and claim it", or any of that nonsense, then no, that's not at all what I mean. 

I mean that even when fasting, or through trials of life, we should maintain a spirit of love that yields the fruit of the Spirit.  Those light afflictions should not dampen our joy.  The talk of willingness to suffer sounds more like the people fasting in Matthew 6:16.
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« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2011, 01:15:58 AM »

If you mean (I'm not even sure of the exact phrases) "prosperity gospel", "name it and claim it", or any of that nonsense, then no, that's not at all what I mean. 

I mean that even when fasting, or through trials of life, we should maintain a spirit of love that yields the fruit of the Spirit.  Those light afflictions should not dampen our joy.  The talk of willingness to suffer sounds more like the people fasting in Matthew 6:16.
No, I am not talking about the prosperity gospel. This is more...subtle.

I learned that love was central to all of the commandments. So, at one of the churches I attended, the pastor would talk about love, love, love, how love would wipe away sin. It was an over-emphasis on the positive and a lack of attention to sin or the other side of the equation.

But anyway, keep us updated. God be with you. Smiley
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« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2011, 02:09:29 AM »

So, at one of the churches I attended, the pastor would talk about love, love, love, how love would wipe away sin. It was an over-emphasis on the positive and a lack of attention to sin or the other side of the equation.

I know what you mean.  The protestant church where I am a member doesn't do that.  They over-do it a bit in the other direction IMO.

BTW, thanks, but I'll just take the short skirt and long jacket   laugh
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« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2011, 02:11:26 AM »

So, at one of the churches I attended, the pastor would talk about love, love, love, how love would wipe away sin. It was an over-emphasis on the positive and a lack of attention to sin or the other side of the equation.

I know what you mean.  The protestant church where I am a member doesn't do that.  They over-do it a bit in the other direction IMO.

BTW, thanks, but I'll just take the short skirt and long jacket   laugh
Cheesy
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« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2011, 08:50:47 PM »

Other folks have said this already but I wanted to tell you also that if you seek God, everything will eventually fall into place. It may not be easy and may not be after a long time, but it will be.So, come to the Church to worship God, join the Church to be part of His Body, and partake of the Holy Mysteries to have life.
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« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2011, 08:59:01 PM »

I really don't see a problem with cross dressing. Every Lent, churches dress their crosses with purple robes.
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« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2011, 01:10:13 PM »

The works of the Fathers are filled with references to asceticism, refraining from gluttony and indulging carnal desires, fasting from both food and sexual relations with one's spouse at times, etc. Abstention IS a VERY big part of the faith -- it, arguably, is one of the tools that leads us to theosis.

...Not indulging in certain desires has been hard to swallow. Even things that some Christians may view as permissible -- overeating, smoking, drinking -- must be constantly checked so as to not be in excess. In some cases, we must abstain from them completely.

It is not for the weak of heart. I am not saying that you are weak of heart, CDenquirer, but I am saying that a good Orthodox life is not an easy one. I am frightened at times, frightened that I will have to address more than my sin, but other issues that may indirectly or directly cause me to sin.



Sin is not only (though of course it can be) a list of "bad actions" - sin is literally missing the mark. Failing to be the person God meant us to be. That is why we can all say with sincerity that we are "the first of sinners."

If any behavior, no matter what we may think or rationalize, is coming between us and God, we must struggle to give it up.

Are you prepared to do that?


(p.s. Ismi, don't want to scare you, but based on my experience you will most certailny, sooner or later, have to face up to issues that cause you to sin - that is the root of sin, after all, isn't it?)
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« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2014, 06:40:08 AM »

Hey there,
   I know this post is old, so I wonder what happened to you.  What became of your experience.  I am a recent convert to Orthodoxy who crossdressed most of my life.  Unlike you, I DID feel guilt about it and so I was never TOLD to repent, but I naturally did and got loving and supportive guidance and direction from my priest.  I am praying for you.
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« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2014, 08:28:12 AM »

Many years, Struggler, and welcome to the forum.
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« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2014, 12:53:49 AM »

Hey there,
   I know this post is old, so I wonder what happened to you.  What became of your experience.  I am a recent convert to Orthodoxy who crossdressed most of my life.  Unlike you, I DID feel guilt about it and so I was never TOLD to repent, but I naturally did and got loving and supportive guidance and direction from my priest.  I am praying for you.

Yes this is in Deuteronomy 22:5 and is a sin: A "woman shall not wear a man’s apparel, nor shall a man put on a woman’s garment; for whoever does such things is abhorrent to the Lord your God."

Do you know why it's there? Because many people used to do it and still do it umtil this day. But especially back then. Pagan Men would also wear makeup too. It's not so much about wearing the womens clothes, but rather the path of life it takes you down when you do this.

Im very understanding towards people who are chosen to urges that are sinful. I understand that they are something you cant control and part of who you are. This was done for a reason but it will take getting older and life experience to fully know why. I personally beleive that you can go to heaven like the rest of us. That is just PERSONAL belief.

When you climb a mountain, you reach the top. That is your goal. But you see, in spirituality, you climb a mountain and you reach the top, and then during times you will fall down a bit and need to keep climbing back up till you reach the top again. So the goal is to continually stay on top of that mountain after you finally reach the top.

Theres reasons why things like crossdressing may not feel like a sin or be logical, but trust God that he knows why. There are greater impacts it can have on your life. You can take baby steps and work towards climbing that mountain. If you start now, God will reward you, you'll see.

And dont feel so bad, lots of guys have worn their wives or gf's clothes or imagined how they would look as women. As I said, its in there for a reason.




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« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2014, 07:58:17 AM »

Sorry for the delay in posting.  I couldn't remember the password for this account, but finally tracked it down.  Catching up...

With regard to investigating Orthodoxy, I attended the local church several times and have talked to the priest (though not about this particular issue).  I think I could easily integrate into the church at some point.  Interestingly, my daughter is in the process of converting.  She considers herself to be in line with Orthodox teaching, but her husband isn't quite ready to jump in with both feet, so that is slowing down her progress. 

Since my last post I've gotten very involved in a large non-denominational church that has been great!  I've received a lot of support on this and other issues from the people there.  Made new friends and joined things like the softball team, volunteering to do work around the church during the week, and playing an instrument during Sunday morning worship services.

As for the crossdressing, I'm still not convinced it is sinful in itself (as in for acting or whatever).  Whether it is a sin for me as I practice it, I doubt I'll know until I get to ask Jesus myself.  What I am certain of is that when I do stand before Him there will be bigger fish to fry than the clothes I wore while in this world. 

I haven't dressed up in the last year.  My wife is not accepting of it, and that is really the only reason I haven't been dressing up.  This used to be very difficult for me to bear.  I had a supernatural experience about a year ago that has helped immensely.


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