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Papist
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« Reply #495 on: October 27, 2012, 05:07:22 PM » |
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I still think it's weird for RC's to venerate saints like St. Mark of Ephesus.
Haha. Agreed. There might be problem with certain EO saints. I don't think that St. Mark of Ephesus is venerated by neither the Latin, nor the Byzantine Churches. |
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"The only-begotten Son of God, wanting us to be partakers of his divinity, assumed our human nature so that, having become man, he might make men gods." - St. Thomas Aquinas
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Peter J
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« Reply #496 on: October 27, 2012, 05:16:51 PM » |
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Yeah...Apotheoun, Cavaradossi, Nine_Two...there are good quality posters there, but they are outnumbered by others who want to assert Roman prerogatives over even Eastern Catholics' own devotions, as we see again most recently in arguments about how ECCs shouldn't celebrate post-schism Eastern saints, which is just silly.
I'm actually a trifle surprised to hear you say that. |
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- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster) And, thanks, too, to Peter - now I know that it's pretentious to think that only God can see the truth - here I was thinking that He might be better placed to do that than we mortals - now, I know better.
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dzheremi
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« Reply #497 on: October 27, 2012, 05:35:24 PM » |
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Think about it, Peter J: If the Melkites, for instance, came into union with Rome in the 17th century, isn't it a bigger disruption to their traditional spirituality (which Rome has called them, and the other Eastern Catholic Churches, to come back to) to tell them to stop venerating saints from their Orthodox past, in order that they should be "more Catholic" or what have you? A similar example could be made of, say, St. Isaac of Nineveh who is venerated in both the EO and OO (and as far as I know, also in the Catholic communion), despite not being a member of either. To put it another way, a person's Orthodoxy does not change based on who venerates him. If the Melkites want to venerate post-schism saints from their pre-Catholic days, why not? I would much rather have Coptic Catholics looking to the likes of St. Severus (if that happens; I don't know, I just mean it as an example) than Thomas Aquinas or Therese of Lisieux or someone else who really has no basis being in their tradition but is suddenly held up as an example for them purely because it's somehow 'wrong' to venerate their own saints. If it wouldn't have been wrong before the 18th century when they came into union with Rome, why is it suddenly wrong now? Unless, of course, you want to say it's Rome's prerogative to deform their traditional spirituality (which I think would be most honest, but also not anything an ECC would be likely to say/admit/believe), at which point you'd have to wonder what it means to be an Eastern Catholic at all. Either Rome is really serious about this "return to your traditions" thing or she isn't.
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« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 05:37:46 PM by dzheremi »
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Peter J
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« Reply #498 on: October 27, 2012, 06:47:35 PM » |
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Alright, I guess the question is: Does it cut both ways? Specifically, we know that you regard it as silly for Catholics to say that other Catholics shouldn't celebrate post-schism Orthodox saints ... but do you also think it's silly for Orthodox to say that other Orthodox shouldn't celebrate post-schism Catholic saints? (I would be surprised if you said Yes to that, but based on your last post I'm guessing you won't.)
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- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster) And, thanks, too, to Peter - now I know that it's pretentious to think that only God can see the truth - here I was thinking that He might be better placed to do that than we mortals - now, I know better.
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dzheremi
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« Reply #499 on: October 27, 2012, 08:04:48 PM » |
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The difference, Peter J, is that since the Eastern Catholic Churches did not exist until several centuries after the Great Schism, it is not alien to their (Orthodox, or at least Orthodox-rooted) tradition to venerate post-schism saints that were already commemorated prior to their union with Rome. There is no such similar circumstance regarding Roman Catholic saints vis-a-vis the Orthodox Church.
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Peter J
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« Reply #500 on: October 28, 2012, 09:16:11 PM » |
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The difference, Peter J, is that since the Eastern Catholic Churches did not exist until several centuries after the Great Schism, it is not alien to their (Orthodox, or at least Orthodox-rooted) tradition to venerate post-schism saints that were already commemorated prior to their union with Rome. There is no such similar circumstance regarding Roman Catholic saints vis-a-vis the Orthodox Church.
I guess we are, to some extent, on the same page. I do think that uniatism had a certain "bait and switch" element to it. (That might sound a bit cliche. If so I'm sorry, but I can't think of a better way of putting it, at least not at the moment.) Kinda lacking the old you'll-have-to-change-which-saints-you-venerate-once-you're-Catholic speech. |
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- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster) And, thanks, too, to Peter - now I know that it's pretentious to think that only God can see the truth - here I was thinking that He might be better placed to do that than we mortals - now, I know better.
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Peter J
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« Reply #501 on: October 30, 2012, 05:42:25 PM » |
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Did my last post result in thread-closure? I honestly didn't see that coming.
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dzheremi
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« Reply #502 on: October 30, 2012, 05:57:38 PM » |
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No, it didn't. The thread is still open...  |
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Peter J
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« Reply #503 on: October 30, 2012, 07:14:23 PM » |
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I was a little vague there. By "my last post" I meant this. (I would quote it but ... well, you know.) |
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ialmisry
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« Reply #504 on: October 30, 2012, 07:20:10 PM » |
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Alright, I guess the question is: Does it cut both ways? Specifically, we know that you regard it as silly for Catholics to say that other Catholics shouldn't celebrate post-schism Orthodox saints ... but do you also think it's silly for Orthodox to say that other Orthodox shouldn't celebrate post-schism Catholic saints? (I would be surprised if you said Yes to that, but based on your last post I'm guessing you won't.)
submitting to the Vatican requires so much revisionism, what is a little more? Conforming to Orthodoxy requires a great deal and strict standards. |
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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choy
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« Reply #505 on: October 30, 2012, 08:01:42 PM » |
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I was a little vague there. By "my last post" I meant this. (I would quote it but ... well, you know.) No, it wasn't your post. Did you get a warning? |
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Peter J
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« Reply #506 on: October 30, 2012, 08:36:02 PM » |
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submitting to the Vatican requires so much revisionism, what is a little more?
( pats ialmisry on the back) Now that's the spirit! |
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- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster) And, thanks, too, to Peter - now I know that it's pretentious to think that only God can see the truth - here I was thinking that He might be better placed to do that than we mortals - now, I know better.
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Peter J
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« Reply #507 on: October 30, 2012, 08:36:52 PM » |
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I was a little vague there. By "my last post" I meant this. (I would quote it but ... well, you know.) No, it wasn't your post. Did you get a warning? No, but I'm still surprised the thread is closed. Oh well. |
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- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster) And, thanks, too, to Peter - now I know that it's pretentious to think that only God can see the truth - here I was thinking that He might be better placed to do that than we mortals - now, I know better.
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Cyrillic
Section Moderator
Taxiarches
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Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Moscow
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« Reply #508 on: October 31, 2012, 05:38:19 AM » |
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That thread is indeed amusing.
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I hate to agree with Cyrillic |
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choy
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« Reply #509 on: October 31, 2012, 01:18:46 PM » |
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I was a little vague there. By "my last post" I meant this. (I would quote it but ... well, you know.) No, it wasn't your post. Did you get a warning? No, but I'm still surprised the thread is closed. Oh well. I reported the thread. I was told in the past not to repond to ad hominems and just report it. I was already more than halfway with my response when I remembered this and cooler heads prevailed. |
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choy
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« Reply #510 on: November 01, 2012, 04:46:52 PM » |
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That was surprising
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Cyrillic
Section Moderator
Taxiarches
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Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Moscow
Posts: 6,800
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« Reply #511 on: November 01, 2012, 05:13:01 PM » |
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PeterJ got suspended? What for?
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I hate to agree with Cyrillic |
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choy
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« Reply #512 on: November 01, 2012, 06:17:12 PM » |
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I just got suspended too
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ialmisry
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« Reply #513 on: November 01, 2012, 06:20:39 PM » |
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I just got suspended too
It's not that hard. Soon they will be up there with the Fish Eaters. |
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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Joseph Hazen
Member
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Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Serbian
Posts: 147
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« Reply #514 on: November 01, 2012, 06:31:01 PM » |
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I just got suspended too
Pretty sure they're looking for a reason to ban you, Choy. |
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Peter J
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« Reply #515 on: November 01, 2012, 06:40:07 PM » |
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I guessing, though I could be wrong, that none of those suspensions are very hefty. Just a few days.
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- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster) And, thanks, too, to Peter - now I know that it's pretentious to think that only God can see the truth - here I was thinking that He might be better placed to do that than we mortals - now, I know better.
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choy
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« Reply #516 on: November 01, 2012, 08:02:43 PM » |
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Last time it was for 24 hours for me.
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dzheremi
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« Reply #517 on: November 01, 2012, 09:02:44 PM » |
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Wow. Only 24 hours? I got suspended for a month for "uncharitable" posts about Islam. Hmmm...
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choy
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« Reply #518 on: November 01, 2012, 09:58:31 PM » |
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I think it was 24 hours. I can't remember exactly. I don't know how long the current one will go. Does it tell you anywhere?
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dzheremi
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« Reply #519 on: November 01, 2012, 10:03:10 PM » |
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You should receive a PM that states that you've been suspended. Or at least I did. And then when I tried to log in, it said "Your account is suspended. Duration: One month." Maybe they've changed the regulations on how suspensions work recently, though, as I have been told by others that the way I was suspended wasn't in line with CAF's stated procedure (as there was no warning or anything).
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biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Merarches
 Online
Faith: Orthodox Christian (chrismated 09/29/13)
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Church
Posts: 10,969
Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου
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« Reply #520 on: November 01, 2012, 10:05:24 PM » |
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They banned me once, without ever telling me why at all. No messages, nothing. Later, I went back under a different name. They didn't catch it because by then, I also had a different computer and e-mail. Do I win something?  |
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choy
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« Reply #521 on: November 02, 2012, 04:51:39 PM » |
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yup, it was just 24 hours
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Cavaradossi
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« Reply #522 on: November 02, 2012, 05:44:07 PM » |
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yup, it was just 24 hours
Is the current one just 24 hours too? |
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Be comforted, and have faith, O Israel, for your God is infinitely simple and one, composed of no parts.
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choy
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« Reply #523 on: November 02, 2012, 05:51:45 PM » |
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yup, it was just 24 hours
Is the current one just 24 hours too? Yes Different mods give different lengths of suspension. I think I was suspended for a week by the Liturgy and Sacraments mod. |
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« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 05:52:21 PM by choy »
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Peter J
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« Reply #524 on: November 02, 2012, 08:19:14 PM » |
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I just got suspended too
It's not that hard. Soon they will be up there with the Fish Eaters. Fish Eaters kind of depresses me. When I'm there, I feel like we're on the verge of a good (or great) conversation, yet I just know the opportunity will be ruined somehow. |
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- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster) And, thanks, too, to Peter - now I know that it's pretentious to think that only God can see the truth - here I was thinking that He might be better placed to do that than we mortals - now, I know better.
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Peter J
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« Reply #525 on: November 03, 2012, 08:46:27 AM » |
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I'd like to pose a question to all of you who are not on CAF these days: Would you return if they once again had an Eastern Christianity Forum (assuming that they unbanned those of you who have been banned)?
As a great General once said: "Nuts" You mean "Vous n'étes que des vieilles noix". |
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- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster) And, thanks, too, to Peter - now I know that it's pretentious to think that only God can see the truth - here I was thinking that He might be better placed to do that than we mortals - now, I know better.
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Peter J
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« Reply #526 on: November 06, 2012, 02:09:13 PM » |
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Incidentally, I'm technically back on CAF as of last night / this morning; but I don't exactly have something on the tip of my tongue that I've just been waiting to say (I haven't read much of anything there in the last few days).
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- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster) And, thanks, too, to Peter - now I know that it's pretentious to think that only God can see the truth - here I was thinking that He might be better placed to do that than we mortals - now, I know better.
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Papist
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« Reply #527 on: November 06, 2012, 02:13:59 PM » |
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I just got suspended too
It's not that hard. Soon they will be up there with the Fish Eaters. Fish Eaters kind of depresses me. When I'm there, I feel like we're on the verge of a good (or great) conversation, yet I just know the opportunity will be ruined somehow. I find the general atmosphere to be just a bit strange. I can understand the attachment of the posters to traditon. I too wish that we could eliminate modernism in the Church. It's also understandable why the posters want to remain Catholic. That is the faith they know. But in the case of many FE posters, their position is inconsistent. If theses people really believe that the Catholic Church has defected, then it seems that one can no longer believe that the Catholic Church is the Church of the Apostles. |
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"The only-begotten Son of God, wanting us to be partakers of his divinity, assumed our human nature so that, having become man, he might make men gods." - St. Thomas Aquinas
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choy
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« Reply #528 on: November 06, 2012, 03:00:22 PM » |
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If theses people really believe that the Catholic Church has defected, then it seems that one can no longer believe that the Catholic Church is the Church of the Apostles.
But they believe their mission is to restore orthodoxy in the Church (that is Latin orthodoxy as defined by Trent). |
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choy
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« Reply #529 on: November 18, 2012, 02:43:11 PM » |
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So apparently you are not allowed to talk about the Eastern Rites for Sacraments in the Liturgy and Sacraments section
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Shlomlokh
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« Reply #530 on: November 18, 2012, 03:01:02 PM » |
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So apparently you are not allowed to talk about the Eastern Rites for Sacraments in the Liturgy and Sacraments section
I discovered that 4 years ago. :p I hardly ever post there as I found the people to be too fanatical and paranoid. Some of them make the Spanish Inquisition look like a game of checkers.  In Christ, Andrew |
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"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos
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choy
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« Reply #531 on: November 18, 2012, 03:10:01 PM » |
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I just got an infraction for agreeing with someone (who is Orthodox) that the Eucharist should be distributed with both Body and Blood of Christ.
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Shlomlokh
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« Reply #532 on: November 18, 2012, 03:14:32 PM » |
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I just got an infraction for agreeing with someone (who is Orthodox) that the Eucharist should be distributed with both Body and Blood of Christ.
Shame on you! You just betrayed the teachings of Catholic Faith! You, schismatic, you!   that's okay. The worst that happened to me was getting a rebuke from Marduk about becoming Orthodox and some posts/threads deleted without warning. In Christ, Andrew |
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"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos
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dzheremi
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« Reply #533 on: November 18, 2012, 03:16:27 PM » |
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I was suspended for a month for telling a fellow Christian that Islam is false even if his Muslim friends are really nice. CAF can be a bit confusing at times...much like the RCC itself, I suppose.
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choy
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« Reply #534 on: November 18, 2012, 06:57:49 PM » |
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I just got an infraction for agreeing with someone (who is Orthodox) that the Eucharist should be distributed with both Body and Blood of Christ.
Shame on you! You just betrayed the teachings of Catholic Faith! You, schismatic, you! that's okay. The worst that happened to me was getting a rebuke from Marduk about becoming Orthodox and some posts/threads deleted without warning. In Christ, Andrew Yes, shame on me! The Eastern Catholic Rites of Sacraments should never be discussed in the Sacraments section of a Catholic forum. Never!   |
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Justin Kolodziej
Member
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Faith: Plain old boring Roman-Rite Catholic
Jurisdiction: The Roman Pontiff/Diocese of Raleigh
Posts: 89
non-patriotic Catholic
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« Reply #535 on: November 19, 2012, 03:05:45 PM » |
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Not only that, but 90-some% of Roman Catholic parishes now distribute the Body and Blood both at each Mass, along with (afaik) all the Eastern Catholic ones, and the Orthodox. So what sense does a truly Catholic (as opposed to Truly Traditional Tridentine Catholic [In Name Only](R)) forum have in shutting down discussion like that |
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St. Justin Martyr, St. John Cassian, and all Desert Fathers, pray for me!
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Cyrillic
Section Moderator
Taxiarches
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Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Moscow
Posts: 6,800
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« Reply #536 on: November 19, 2012, 03:07:45 PM » |
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Not only that, but 90-some% of Roman Catholic parishes now distribute the Body and Blood both at each Mass, along with (afaik) all the Eastern Catholic ones, and the Orthodox. So what sense does a truly Catholic (as opposed to Truly Traditional Tridentine Catholic [In Name Only](R)) forum have in shutting down discussion like that Ah, gotcha! Utraquist! |
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choy
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« Reply #537 on: November 19, 2012, 03:09:26 PM » |
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Cyrillic
Section Moderator
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« Reply #538 on: November 19, 2012, 03:10:17 PM » |
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And we all know what happens next |
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I hate to agree with Cyrillic |
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choy
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« Reply #539 on: November 19, 2012, 03:15:38 PM » |
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And we all know what happens next HAHAHAHAH! Maybe that is why I get reprimanded for giving the "Eastern point of view" "See what happened to you (me)!" |
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