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Author Topic: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!  (Read 23712 times) Average Rating: 0
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Cyrillic
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« Reply #360 on: September 24, 2012, 12:55:43 PM »

Ew. Report that to a moderator immediately, Cyrillic. Even if you did wear dresses, that's none of his business!  Grin

Only a very, very sick person would want to see me in a dress Grin

« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 12:59:18 PM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #361 on: September 24, 2012, 01:26:16 PM »

After many years I went over to CAF just to see the discussion on "What separates Eastern Catholicism from Eastern Orthodoxy? "

Its as if I never left that topic on that forum.  Its the same stuff being regurgitated over and over again.  In some way it looks fruitless and others sad.

This life as an Eastern Catholic, half way in Orthodoxy and the other in Roman Catholicism.  How does one keep from becoming scysophrenic<sp?> ?

Schizophrenic.

Yes, the life of an Eastern Catholic is a hard one.  We are both Catholic and Orthodox and at the same time, we are neither.  We are in communion with Rome (Catholic) and we live by the praxis of our mother Orthodox Church, yet the Orthodox deny we are Orthodox because we are in communion with Rome, and many Roman Catholics do not consider us fully Catholic because we are not Roman.

It is a hard and sad life.  But the challenge really helps us grow spiritually.  We have a mission in this world and that is to bridge the gap between the divided Church.  It is not an easy one but someone has to do it.
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« Reply #362 on: September 24, 2012, 01:36:44 PM »

Since this is a general thread about CAF anyway, I think I'm being contacted by a creep there. Really strange pm's about what dresses I wear and whether I'm female.

Or maybe it's ad/spam. But in either case, report it.
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« Reply #363 on: September 24, 2012, 01:41:08 PM »

Since this is a general thread about CAF anyway, I think I'm being contacted by a creep there. Really strange pm's about what dresses I wear and whether I'm female.

Or maybe it's ad/spam. But in either case, report it.

He keeps sending it, he's send 6 or 7 pm's so far and he has 40-something posts. I can't see how to report it, and I don't know whether I should take the pains to do so.
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« Reply #364 on: September 24, 2012, 01:41:45 PM »

After many years I went over to CAF just to see the discussion on "What separates Eastern Catholicism from Eastern Orthodoxy? "

Its as if I never left that topic on that forum.  Its the same stuff being regurgitated over and over again.  In some way it looks fruitless and others sad.

This life as an Eastern Catholic, half way in Orthodoxy and the other in Roman Catholicism.  How does one keep from becoming scysophrenic<sp?> ?

Schizophrenic.

Yes, the life of an Eastern Catholic is a hard one.
 We are both Catholic and Orthodox and at the same time, we are neither.  We are in communion with Rome (Catholic) and we live by the praxis of our mother Orthodox Church, yet the Orthodox deny we are Orthodox because we are in communion with Rome, and many Roman Catholics do not consider us fully Catholic because we are not Roman.

It is a hard and sad life.  But the challenge really helps us grow spiritually.  We have a mission in this world and that is to bridge the gap between the divided Church.  It is not an easy one but someone has to do it.

When people say that being Eastern Catholic is hard, I think the natural response is "But being Christian in general is hard." I think perhaps a better word to describe Eastern Catholicism is "conflicted".
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 01:42:31 PM by Peter J » Logged

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« Reply #365 on: September 24, 2012, 01:42:36 PM »

I'm sorry, but how can you bridge the gap between East and West while being in union with one and not the other? A bridge that is only connected at one end is not a very good bridge. (And of course you can't be united with both, as the Orthodox will not unite with those who do not share their faith.)

I don't understand how or why the ECCs exist. I've heard that "bridge" explanation a thousand times, and it still makes no sense. You're called to be something you literally can't be, and then Rome points to you as evidence of an "Orthodoxy" that does not exist in its communion. It makes zero sense. I'm sorry, but it is really odd.
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« Reply #366 on: September 24, 2012, 01:46:04 PM »

I don't understand how or why the ECCs exist.

Sheep-stealing, that's why.
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« Reply #367 on: September 24, 2012, 01:56:28 PM »

Well, yeah, okay...I didn't mean it that literally... Smiley
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« Reply #368 on: September 24, 2012, 02:13:12 PM »

I don't understand how or why the ECCs exist.

Well like I say, I don't see myself as a pioneer so much as a hold-out. I don't run around in front of Orthodox yelling "Look at me, I'm Eastern Catholic! Don't you want to be Eastern Catholic too?" But if someone is already Eastern Catholic, then I think it makes sense to stay put rather than "going home to Orthodoxy" (not that the latter course of action isn't also appealing).
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« Reply #369 on: September 24, 2012, 02:34:31 PM »

I don't understand how or why the ECCs exist.

Sheep-stealing, that's why.

We're a stepping stone for RCs into Orthodoxy Tongue
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« Reply #370 on: September 24, 2012, 02:35:13 PM »

When people say that being Eastern Catholic is hard, I think the natural response is "But being Christian in general is hard." I think perhaps a better word to describe Eastern Catholicism is "conflicted".

Well, if every Christian is to take up his/her cross, ours is a 3-bar cross Wink
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« Reply #371 on: September 24, 2012, 02:38:39 PM »

I'm sorry, but how can you bridge the gap between East and West while being in union with one and not the other? A bridge that is only connected at one end is not a very good bridge. (And of course you can't be united with both, as the Orthodox will not unite with those who do not share their faith.)

I don't understand how or why the ECCs exist. I've heard that "bridge" explanation a thousand times, and it still makes no sense. You're called to be something you literally can't be, and then Rome points to you as evidence of an "Orthodoxy" that does not exist in its communion. It makes zero sense. I'm sorry, but it is really odd.

Not for a lack of trying.  If I remember my history right, the Union of Brest didn't intend to break with the Orthodox and that some of the Bishops backed away from the Union when they realized that they cannot achieve communion both ways.

And of course the Melkites have tried again recently.

If I remember correctly, Metropolitan Andriy Shyptytsky said in the past that the UGCC will not pursue the Patriarchate if there is a canonical Ukrainian Patriarch in Kyiv, Catholic or Orthodox.

I do understand your points.  But union is not easy nor simple.  In fact, we don't know what will work.  But our mission in life is to try.  Maybe one day we'll figure it out and get it right.
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« Reply #372 on: September 24, 2012, 02:39:48 PM »

Fair enough. I'm not saying you shouldn't do what you feel is right; you absolutely should. I'm just saying I don't understand it at all. I didn't understand it when I was Roman Catholic visiting the Ruthenians, and I don't understand it now that I have gone home to Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #373 on: September 24, 2012, 03:11:13 PM »

Fair enough. I'm not saying you shouldn't do what you feel is right; you absolutely should. I'm just saying I don't understand it at all. I didn't understand it when I was Roman Catholic visiting the Ruthenians, and I don't understand it now that I have gone home to Orthodoxy.

I don't understand it either Tongue

This of it this way, with the Philippine Revolution we had heroes who were in the country fighting oppressive Spain, and we had heroes who left the country and did their work outside, like Jose Rizal (although he did eventually return).  ECs remain within the country fighting the oppressive regime Wink
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« Reply #374 on: September 24, 2012, 03:20:06 PM »

You mean the one you're in union with?
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« Reply #375 on: September 24, 2012, 03:42:27 PM »

You mean the one you're in union with?

Yes Wink
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« Reply #376 on: September 24, 2012, 03:52:57 PM »

Fair enough. I'm not saying you shouldn't do what you feel is right; you absolutely should. I'm just saying I don't understand it at all. I didn't understand it when I was Roman Catholic visiting the Ruthenians, and I don't understand it now that I have gone home to Orthodoxy.

I don't understand it either Tongue

This of it this way, with the Philippine Revolution we had heroes who were in the country fighting oppressive Spain, and we had heroes who left the country and did their work outside, like Jose Rizal (although he did eventually return).  ECs remain within the country fighting the oppressive regime Wink
What's so oppressive about it? The Pope is way over in Rome; I'm here in Miami, or San Diego.
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« Reply #377 on: September 24, 2012, 04:28:22 PM »

What's so oppressive about it? The Pope is way over in Rome; I'm here in Miami, or San Diego.

He and his canons Tongue silly Latins think they can tell us what we should believe Tongue
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« Reply #378 on: September 24, 2012, 04:48:02 PM »

I don't understand how or why the ECCs exist.

Sheep-stealing, that's why.
Would WRO be considered as sheep stealing?
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« Reply #379 on: September 24, 2012, 05:06:46 PM »

I don't understand how or why the ECCs exist.

Sheep-stealing, that's why.
Would WRO be considered as sheep stealing?

I think Cyrillic was overgeneralizing a bit. The question was why do ECCs exist; but in the case of the Maronites or the Italo-Byzantines (i.e. the Italo-Greek-Albanian Byzantine Catholic Church in our day), sheep stealing had little to do with it.
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« Reply #380 on: September 24, 2012, 05:12:06 PM »

I'm sorry, but how can you bridge the gap between East and West while being in union with one and not the other? A bridge that is only connected at one end is not a very good bridge. (And of course you can't be united with both, as the Orthodox will not unite with those who do not share their faith.)

I don't understand how or why the ECCs exist. I've heard that "bridge" explanation a thousand times, and it still makes no sense. You're called to be something you literally can't be, and then Rome points to you as evidence of an "Orthodoxy" that does not exist in its communion. It makes zero sense. I'm sorry, but it is really odd.

Not for a lack of trying.  If I remember my history right, the Union of Brest didn't intend to break with the Orthodox and that some of the Bishops backed away from the Union when they realized that they cannot achieve communion both ways.

And of course the Melkites have tried again recently.

If I remember correctly, Metropolitan Andriy Shyptytsky said in the past that the UGCC will not pursue the Patriarchate if there is a canonical Ukrainian Patriarch in Kyiv, Catholic or Orthodox.

I do understand your points.  But union is not easy nor simple.  In fact, we don't know what will work.  But our mission in life is to try.  Maybe one day we'll figure it out and get it right.

I disagree: our mission is to deal with (i.e. live with) the consequences of the Union of the Brest and the various other unions, not to bring about a new Union of Brest.

That's what I meant about being hold-outs rather than pioneers.
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« Reply #381 on: September 24, 2012, 05:17:28 PM »

I don't understand how or why the ECCs exist.

Sheep-stealing, that's why.

We're a stepping stone for RCs into Orthodoxy Tongue

Not to get off on a tangent, but I have doubts about that being a good thing. Seems like reverse uniatism.
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« Reply #382 on: September 24, 2012, 05:43:17 PM »

Why do you bring that up, Peter J? I thought the general consensus in the last thread you made about it was that it doesn't really exist?
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« Reply #383 on: September 24, 2012, 07:07:57 PM »

Why do you bring that up, Peter J? I thought the general consensus in the last thread you made about it was that it doesn't really exist?

Sorry. Sometimes I forget my place.
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« Reply #384 on: September 24, 2012, 07:08:20 PM »

It is indeed hard to be authentically "Orthodox" while in communion with Rome.  But perhaps it is the calling for some of us to try and get Rome back to Orthodoxy.  Even though I have to deal with all the Bookcats in real life.
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« Reply #385 on: September 24, 2012, 07:28:48 PM »

It is indeed hard to be authentically "Orthodox" while in communion with Rome.  But perhaps it is the calling for some of us to try and get Rome back to Orthodoxy.  Even though I have to deal with all the Bookcats in real life.

Trying to get Rome back to Orthodoxy would be a monumental challenge. But, in my opinion the Eastern Catholic slice of the Roman pie occupies a very small portion of that pie,  too small maybe to make an influence on that change.  What does the Vatican actually think of the Byzantines in the Roman orbit?  How are they treated?  Are they considered as quaint and interesting or an anachronism of sorts.  What does go through the minds of the Magisterium with regards to their Eastern Brothers?  Do they resent the fact that the Eastern Catholics dont have to comply with the dogmas set down by past papal declarations?  Just some thoughts going through my dusty mind.
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« Reply #386 on: September 24, 2012, 07:38:38 PM »

It is indeed hard to be authentically "Orthodox" while in communion with Rome.  But perhaps it is the calling for some of us to try and get Rome back to Orthodoxy.  Even though I have to deal with all the Bookcats in real life.

Trying to get Rome back to Orthodoxy would be a monumental challenge. But, in my opinion the Eastern Catholic slice of the Roman pie occupies a very small portion of that pie,  too small maybe to make an influence on that change.  What does the Vatican actually think of the Byzantines in the Roman orbit?  How are they treated?  Are they considered as quaint and interesting or an anachronism of sorts.  What does go through the minds of the Magisterium with regards to their Eastern Brothers?  Do they resent the fact that the Eastern Catholics dont have to comply with the dogmas set down by past papal declarations?  Just some thoughts going through my dusty mind.

We need the faith of a mustard seed, right?  It won't happen overnight, it may happen in another 1000 years.  Who knows.  I do believe that the Eastern praxis is the correct expression of the Christian faith.  Perhaps if we Eastern Catholics become authentically "Orthdox" as much as we can, Roman Catholics will see the truth and move en masse to Eastern Churches.  Rome will eventually relent.  Most RCs will never give up communion with Rome to even consider Orthodoxy.  So if ECs are as close to Orthodoxy as they possibly can it would be a smooth move for them.  I believe the RC praxis won't last in a secular world that we are living in.  Less and less people can be guilted to do the right thing.  When the ECs become the dominant Churches in the Catholic Communion, then we can restore Orthodoxy in the Catholic Church and reunite with the Orthodox Churches.

To tell you the truth, sometimes I don't know why some of the Eastern Catholic Bishops themselves take all these things from Rome knowing their mother Orthodox Churches are right there.
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« Reply #387 on: September 24, 2012, 08:28:11 PM »

Aramis has been suspended again.  Why?  I can't see anything wrong he did.  Man, I should try walking on water later.  I mean, check his previous posts and if that gets suspended I don't know why I'm still around.
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« Reply #388 on: September 24, 2012, 08:39:59 PM »

In my experience of being suspended, the mod will send you a PM containing the offending posts, which are otherwise removed from your posting history and the thread in which they originally appeared. So you will not be able to see what got him suspended by looking at his posts.
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« Reply #389 on: September 24, 2012, 08:41:21 PM »

In my experience of being suspended, the mod will send you a PM containing the offending posts, which are otherwise removed from your posting history and the thread in which they originally appeared. So you will not be able to see what got him suspended by looking at his posts.

But it doesn't look like he's headed into anything heated with his posts.

I've had a chunk of my posts deleted the past couple of days.  But I am still alive and kicking.
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« Reply #390 on: September 24, 2012, 09:53:34 PM »

Wow, the list of suspended members grows. Now even Byzcathcantor has been suspended. I see that they did not spare you from the same fate, Constantine. Most unfortunate.
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« Reply #391 on: September 24, 2012, 09:56:24 PM »

Good thing I haven't started attempting crossing the river right across the office Cheesy

Okay, so who won the prize pool?  Grin Grin
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« Reply #392 on: September 24, 2012, 10:30:00 PM »

It is indeed hard to be authentically "Orthodox" while in communion with Rome.  But perhaps it is the calling for some of us to try and get Rome back to Orthodoxy.  Even though I have to deal with all the Bookcats in real life.

Trying to get Rome back to Orthodoxy would be a monumental challenge. But, in my opinion the Eastern Catholic slice of the Roman pie occupies a very small portion of that pie,  too small maybe to make an influence on that change.  What does the Vatican actually think of the Byzantines in the Roman orbit?  How are they treated?  Are they considered as quaint and interesting or an anachronism of sorts.  What does go through the minds of the Magisterium with regards to their Eastern Brothers?  Do they resent the fact that the Eastern Catholics dont have to comply with the dogmas set down by past papal declarations?  Just some thoughts going through my dusty mind.

We need the faith of a mustard seed, right?  It won't happen overnight, it may happen in another 1000 years.  Who knows.  I do believe that the Eastern praxis is the correct expression of the Christian faith.  Perhaps if we Eastern Catholics become authentically "Orthdox" as much as we can, Roman Catholics will see the truth and move en masse to Eastern Churches.  Rome will eventually relent.  Most RCs will never give up communion with Rome to even consider Orthodoxy.  So if ECs are as close to Orthodoxy as they possibly can it would be a smooth move for them.  I believe the RC praxis won't last in a secular world that we are living in.  Less and less people can be guilted to do the right thing.  When the ECs become the dominant Churches in the Catholic Communion, then we can restore Orthodoxy in the Catholic Church and reunite with the Orthodox Churches.

To tell you the truth, sometimes I don't know why some of the Eastern Catholic Bishops themselves take all these things from Rome knowing their mother Orthodox Churches are right there.
Nah, too many of us are Thomists through and through. Smiley
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« Reply #393 on: September 25, 2012, 02:16:35 AM »

Mardukm is going bananas on ConstantineTG. I wonder if he'll get suspended.

I have never seen that happen, no matter how heated his posts become.

On a side note, I really do wish that he would stop using so much bolded and underlined text in every post. There's nothing special about a bolded and underlined segment of red text, when half of your entire post is written that way; instead, that just makes the entire post incredibly hard to read.  Undecided  I must confess that I oftentimes skip over or at most merely skim his posts when he writes in such a fashion.
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« Reply #394 on: September 25, 2012, 02:25:53 AM »

Yeah...after it became obvious that I would not be returning to the Catholic Church, I got some e-mails from a few people saying "Just in case you get banned, here's how you can contact me if you want to". That was nice. Smiley Plus, there's a lot we can discuss off-board that is not allowed on CAF (e.g., I was suspended for not liking Islam, which is not really considered a problematic stance for most Eastern Christians, Catholic or Orthodox, but is apparently seen as somewhat "anti-Catholic", in so far as it dissents from the official RCC line and makes some people sad).
I remember one of those Islam threads.  I suppose that I was lucky in that I did not get suspended, but it probably is hard to suspend a person for saying things like:

"Islamic monotheism is not true, but is instead false, because it involves an explicit denial of the tri-hypostatic existence of God."

and

"It is impossible to adore God without Christ."

 Grin
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« Reply #395 on: September 25, 2012, 06:03:02 AM »

Wow, the list of suspended members grows. Now even Byzcathcantor has been suspended. I see that they did not spare you from the same fate, Constantine. Most unfortunate.

Yeah, Constantine, Byzcathcantor, and Bookcat. I'm surprised they included Byzcathcantor (no offense Constantine Grin).
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« Reply #396 on: September 25, 2012, 08:42:53 AM »

Mardukm is going bananas on ConstantineTG. I wonder if he'll get suspended.

I have never seen that happen, no matter how heated his posts become.

On a side note, I really do wish that he would stop using so much bolded and underlined text in every post. There's nothing special about a bolded and underlined segment of red text, when half of your entire post is written that way; instead, that just makes the entire post incredibly hard to read.  Undecided  I must confess that I oftentimes skip over or at most merely skim his posts when he writes in such a fashion.



I could have used your input recently on CAF. They all got so upset with me when I told them that the essence of God is so radically different from creation that it isn't essence, it doesn't be, and it doesn't exist (something which I think is plainly clear from the Eastern tradition). Grin

I was accused of being a crypto-monophysite, and of being 'too lost in philosophy' (a strange accusation since I never quoted any philosophers but only quoted the Church fathers). Then, when I gave them a Palamas quote where he explicitly says that God is not nature, if we are nature, and God is not being if we are being, I was told that Palamas, while being a saint worthy of veneration in the Eastern Catholic Churches, often was confused, repetitive, and seemingly self-contradicting such that he needs to be interpreted correctly (code for in line with Thomas Aquinas, is how I interpret that).  And what is the correct way to interpret that passage? I was told, instead of that passage meaning that the essence of God is not essence in any sense of the word, and that it does not be in any sense of the word, as the Eastern exegetical tradition of pseudo-Dionysus would suggest, that the passage from Palamas is actually highlighting in a different way the doctrine of analogy, like what Aquinas taught. When I denied that this was true, I was accused of not understanding Aquinas (after already being told that I didn't understand the Cappadocians or Palamas) despite having studied one of his best explanations of his teaching on analogy, from the disputed questions on the simplicity of God, with several of my friends who are Thomists. Some of the interpretations I saw of the the Eastern Fathers reminded me particularly of this image Isa uses all the time:


O weh! I think I need a drink.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 08:51:09 AM by Cavaradossi » Logged

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« Reply #397 on: September 25, 2012, 12:44:44 PM »

Wow, the list of suspended members grows. Now even Byzcathcantor has been suspended. I see that they did not spare you from the same fate, Constantine. Most unfortunate.

Yeah, Constantine, Byzcathcantor, and Bookcat. I'm surprised they included Byzcathcantor (no offense Constantine Grin).

Hey, I'm quite surprised myself it took this long for something to happen to me Tongue
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« Reply #398 on: September 25, 2012, 01:20:30 PM »

Wow, the list of suspended members grows. Now even Byzcathcantor has been suspended. I see that they did not spare you from the same fate, Constantine. Most unfortunate.

Yeah, Constantine, Byzcathcantor, and Bookcat. I'm surprised they included Byzcathcantor (no offense Constantine Grin).

Hey, I'm quite surprised myself it took this long for something to happen to me Tongue

Almost all the active posters got suspended, so this one doesn't count  Wink
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« Reply #399 on: September 25, 2012, 05:40:17 PM »

Wow, the list of suspended members grows. Now even Byzcathcantor has been suspended. I see that they did not spare you from the same fate, Constantine. Most unfortunate.

Yeah, Constantine, Byzcathcantor, and Bookcat. I'm surprised they included Byzcathcantor (no offense Constantine Grin).

Hey, I'm quite surprised myself it took this long for something to happen to me Tongue

Welcome to the club !
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« Reply #400 on: September 26, 2012, 12:50:11 PM »

The mod's watching everyone and everything pretty closely.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 12:51:45 PM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #401 on: September 26, 2012, 12:52:54 PM »

Yeah, well, they have been off the ball for a few weeks and all hell broke loose.
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« Reply #402 on: September 26, 2012, 12:55:06 PM »

Yeah, well, they have been off the ball for a few weeks and all hell broke loose.

Yes, however , it made things a lot more interesting to read. I learnt a few things in those threads.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 12:55:17 PM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #403 on: September 26, 2012, 12:56:12 PM »

Yeah, well, they have been off the ball for a few weeks and all hell broke loose.

Yes, however , it made things a lot more interesting to read. I learnt a few things in those threads.

Like a few unChristian things? Tongue
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« Reply #404 on: September 26, 2012, 01:14:08 PM »

Yeah, well, they have been off the ball for a few weeks and all hell broke loose.

Yes, however , it made things a lot more interesting to read. I learnt a few things in those threads.

Like a few unChristian things? Tongue

Like
how to emphasise your post to make a point
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 01:15:09 PM by Cyrillic » Logged

"And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin
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