Author Topic: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!  (Read 26891 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Irish Melkite

  • Information Mongeror
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 997
    • Byzantine Forum
The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« on: December 12, 2011, 05:13:17 AM »
I apologize in advance for revisiting the subject of CAF - but this couldn't pass without comment ...

The EC (remember, that's 'Eastern Catholic' these days - not 'Eastern Christi0anity' as it was in our time) forum Mod has posted some new guidelines there on charitable and civil debate.

In keeping with the rules here, I won't quote her post, but the essence is that posters should think of themselves as "robots". When someone objects to something they've posted, they should run it through a decision-making chart and, having discerned the appropriate factual and non-emotional response, they should post that with "encyclopedia-like neutrality".

The narrative text is followed by debate guidelines, several of which are pretty mundane. But, my definite favorite - in keeping with the narrative that precedes the guidelines - is ... 

"Remember: your goal is to sound like an encyclopedia robot."   :o

Why didn't I think of that in my day as mod over there?  ???

The place never ceases to amaze.

Many years,

Neil
"Not only is it unnecessary to adopt the customs of the Latin Rite to manifest one's Catholicism, it is an offense against the unity of the Church."

- Melkite Archbishop Joseph (Tawil), of blessed memory

Offline Irish Hermit

  • Kibernetski Kaludjer
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,991
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2011, 06:41:32 AM »
Said the Irish Hermit to the Irish Melkite....

'Remember: your goal is to sound like an encyclopedia robot."

I am so choked with mirth that I cannot think of any intelligent response!

Sorry not to sound like an encyclopedia robot!   :laugh:




Offline Irish Melkite

  • Information Mongeror
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 997
    • Byzantine Forum
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2011, 06:56:01 AM »
Bless, Father,

As I read your post, and finished spewing my coffee over my keyboard, I realized that the very line "Remember, ... " is contrary to the accompanying text and enunciated guidelines, which are replete with admonitions such as to give "No indication of what the other needs to do unless it is genuine praise."

Many years,

Neil
"Not only is it unnecessary to adopt the customs of the Latin Rite to manifest one's Catholicism, it is an offense against the unity of the Church."

- Melkite Archbishop Joseph (Tawil), of blessed memory

Offline the slave

  • intolerant of intolerance
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 810
  • Faith: UGCC
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2011, 09:06:30 AM »
I nearly ended myself when I read the 2 posts made there , whilst eating my breakfast .

All I know is that I'm not learned enough to be able to sound like an encyclopedia robot.

oh well - I'm devastated :(
"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."
- St. John Maximovitch

Offline Cavaradossi

  • 法網恢恢,疏而不漏
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,670
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2011, 09:23:53 AM »
I'm curious how some of the snarkier posters will manage to survive.  Should be fun to watch.
Be comforted, and have faith, O Israel, for your God is infinitely simple and one, composed of no parts.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,996
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2011, 10:43:14 AM »
Head back by to check out my response.

Offline JoeS

  • (aka StMarkEofE)
  • Site Supporter
  • OC.net guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,122
  • Global Warming Enthusiast.
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2011, 10:51:15 AM »
I'm curious how some of the snarkier posters will manage to survive.  Should be fun to watch.

Well, this is another example of websites striving to be politically correct at the expense of resonable intellectual discourse.

I was a regular CAF member and had posted serveral thousand postings.  But, the discussions became too much for some mods and they extinguished our (Orthodox ) membership and gutted our past postings so you could never refer back to our responses.   It was their ball park so we had to bite the bullet and take our licks and go home.  Sadly, the western church will have a more difficult time in understanding our beliefs thats if they are still interested.

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,152
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2011, 11:49:41 AM »
"Danger, danger Will Robinson!!!!"

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,640
  • Praying for the Christians in Iraq
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2011, 12:08:01 PM »
I apologize in advance for revisiting the subject of CAF - but this couldn't pass without comment ...

The EC (remember, that's 'Eastern Catholic' these days - not 'Eastern Christi0anity' as it was in our time) forum Mod has posted some new guidelines there on charitable and civil debate.

In keeping with the rules here, I won't quote her post, but the essence is that posters should think of themselves as "robots". When someone objects to something they've posted, they should run it through a decision-making chart and, having discerned the appropriate factual and non-emotional response, they should post that with "encyclopedia-like neutrality".

The narrative text is followed by debate guidelines, several of which are pretty mundane. But, my definite favorite - in keeping with the narrative that precedes the guidelines - is ... 

"Remember: your goal is to sound like an encyclopedia robot."   :o

Why didn't I think of that in my day as mod over there?  ???

The place never ceases to amaze.

Many years,

Neil
Probably because the bias in favor of Eastern Orthodoxy was palpable. When the moderator is allowing threads celebrating a Catholic's defection to Eastern Orthodoxy, he certainly cannot give the advice the provided above. He'd have to practice what he preaches first.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Cavaradossi

  • 法網恢恢,疏而不漏
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,670
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2011, 12:25:27 PM »
I apologize in advance for revisiting the subject of CAF - but this couldn't pass without comment ...

The EC (remember, that's 'Eastern Catholic' these days - not 'Eastern Christi0anity' as it was in our time) forum Mod has posted some new guidelines there on charitable and civil debate.

In keeping with the rules here, I won't quote her post, but the essence is that posters should think of themselves as "robots". When someone objects to something they've posted, they should run it through a decision-making chart and, having discerned the appropriate factual and non-emotional response, they should post that with "encyclopedia-like neutrality".

The narrative text is followed by debate guidelines, several of which are pretty mundane. But, my definite favorite - in keeping with the narrative that precedes the guidelines - is ... 

"Remember: your goal is to sound like an encyclopedia robot."   :o

Why didn't I think of that in my day as mod over there?  ???

The place never ceases to amaze.

Many years,

Neil
Probably because the bias in favor of Eastern Orthodoxy was palpable. When the moderator is allowing threads celebrating a Catholic's defection to Eastern Orthodoxy, he certainly cannot give the advice the provided above. He'd have to practice what he preaches first.

Don't worry, I'm sure he'll burn in hell for causing you such grievous offense. (Or maybe you can just let go of such silly grievances, if you possess the maturity).
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 12:27:09 PM by Cavaradossi »
Be comforted, and have faith, O Israel, for your God is infinitely simple and one, composed of no parts.

Offline dzheremi

  • No longer posting here.
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,383
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2011, 12:41:23 PM »
Ahhh...CAF...I can't imagine a better place to have abandoned. That goes for the church they're pushing, too.

And I remember in my time there more than a few "I'm leaving Catholicism to become ____" on the Non-Catholic Religions subforum (my favorites were Muslim and Hari Krshna...not the same poster, of course, though that would have made it more interesting), which were allowed to go on for pages and pages and turn into such messes that eventually the moderator of that subforum had to make a sticky announcing that no one could post threads like that anymore. Hahaha. But somehow now posts that stop far short of that level are unacceptable if they do not show enough deference to Catholicism? Sounds like insecure Romanists throwing their weight around, lest their "Eastern lung" start thinking of actually breathing in an Eastern body, as opposed to being properly subservient to their Roman masters. Sad.

Offline stanley123

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,809
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2011, 01:12:57 PM »
I apologize in advance for revisiting the subject of CAF - but this couldn't pass without comment ...

The EC (remember, that's 'Eastern Catholic' these days - not 'Eastern Christi0anity' as it was in our time) forum Mod has posted some new guidelines there on charitable and civil debate.

In keeping with the rules here, I won't quote her post, but the essence is that posters should think of themselves as "robots". When someone objects to something they've posted, they should run it through a decision-making chart and, having discerned the appropriate factual and non-emotional response, they should post that with "encyclopedia-like neutrality".

The narrative text is followed by debate guidelines, several of which are pretty mundane. But, my definite favorite - in keeping with the narrative that precedes the guidelines - is ... 

"Remember: your goal is to sound like an encyclopedia robot."   :o

Why didn't I think of that in my day as mod over there?  ???

The place never ceases to amaze.

Many years,

Neil
I find the recommendations given there to be reasonable, and this one about the robots is taken out of the context. I thought that the moderator was only saying not to be overly emotional or sarcastic. One piece of advice that I liked was not to use "you" statements such as: you need to ..., why don't you..., etc.
 How many times have I seen people write "you need to do this" or "you need to do that" and this adds nothing to the discussion but only hypes it ?
I don't say that there are not cases when moderators are out of line at CAF. But I don't see this as such a situation.

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,640
  • Praying for the Christians in Iraq
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2011, 01:37:54 PM »
I apologize in advance for revisiting the subject of CAF - but this couldn't pass without comment ...

The EC (remember, that's 'Eastern Catholic' these days - not 'Eastern Christi0anity' as it was in our time) forum Mod has posted some new guidelines there on charitable and civil debate.

In keeping with the rules here, I won't quote her post, but the essence is that posters should think of themselves as "robots". When someone objects to something they've posted, they should run it through a decision-making chart and, having discerned the appropriate factual and non-emotional response, they should post that with "encyclopedia-like neutrality".

The narrative text is followed by debate guidelines, several of which are pretty mundane. But, my definite favorite - in keeping with the narrative that precedes the guidelines - is ... 

"Remember: your goal is to sound like an encyclopedia robot."   :o

Why didn't I think of that in my day as mod over there?  ???

The place never ceases to amaze.

Many years,

Neil
Probably because the bias in favor of Eastern Orthodoxy was palpable. When the moderator is allowing threads celebrating a Catholic's defection to Eastern Orthodoxy, he certainly cannot give the advice the provided above. He'd have to practice what he preaches first.

Don't worry, I'm sure he'll burn in hell for causing you such grievous offense. (Or maybe you can just let go of such silly grievances, if you possess the maturity).
I would hope that you would possess the maturity to be able to address a relevant issue. Joe's moderation of that subform was constantly painted by his biases, yet he is suggesting that the posters on CAF should not let their emotions get involved. This is problematic. When you defend this it appears that  you support bias, but I hope that is not the case.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,640
  • Praying for the Christians in Iraq
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2011, 01:40:23 PM »
Ahhh...CAF...I can't imagine a better place to have abandoned. That goes for the church they're pushing, too.

And I remember in my time there more than a few "I'm leaving Catholicism to become ____" on the Non-Catholic Religions subforum (my favorites were Muslim and Hari Krshna...not the same poster, of course, though that would have made it more interesting), which were allowed to go on for pages and pages and turn into such messes that eventually the moderator of that subforum had to make a sticky announcing that no one could post threads like that anymore. Hahaha. But somehow now posts that stop far short of that level are unacceptable if they do not show enough deference to Catholicism? Sounds like insecure Romanists throwing their weight around, lest their "Eastern lung" start thinking of actually breathing in an Eastern body, as opposed to being properly subservient to their Roman masters. Sad.
No, it sounds like that it is inappropriate to come into a Catholics home, and celebrate how un-catholic one now is. It's simply rude. What if an Eastern Orthodox Christian came to this forum and started a thread celebrating his defection from the EO Church? Is that appropriate here?
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Shlomlokh

  • 主哀れめよ!
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,318
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2011, 01:50:00 PM »
I apologize in advance for revisiting the subject of CAF - but this couldn't pass without comment ...

The EC (remember, that's 'Eastern Catholic' these days - not 'Eastern Christi0anity' as it was in our time) forum Mod has posted some new guidelines there on charitable and civil debate.

In keeping with the rules here, I won't quote her post, but the essence is that posters should think of themselves as "robots". When someone objects to something they've posted, they should run it through a decision-making chart and, having discerned the appropriate factual and non-emotional response, they should post that with "encyclopedia-like neutrality".

The narrative text is followed by debate guidelines, several of which are pretty mundane. But, my definite favorite - in keeping with the narrative that precedes the guidelines - is ... 

"Remember: your goal is to sound like an encyclopedia robot."   :o

Why didn't I think of that in my day as mod over there?  ???

The place never ceases to amaze.

Many years,

Neil
Probably because the bias in favor of Eastern Orthodoxy was palpable. When the moderator is allowing threads celebrating a Catholic's defection to Eastern Orthodoxy, he certainly cannot give the advice the provided above. He'd have to practice what he preaches first.
What's the problem? From your church's position, they were just moving to the other lung.

In Christ,
Andrew
"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,640
  • Praying for the Christians in Iraq
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2011, 01:57:03 PM »
I apologize in advance for revisiting the subject of CAF - but this couldn't pass without comment ...

The EC (remember, that's 'Eastern Catholic' these days - not 'Eastern Christi0anity' as it was in our time) forum Mod has posted some new guidelines there on charitable and civil debate.

In keeping with the rules here, I won't quote her post, but the essence is that posters should think of themselves as "robots". When someone objects to something they've posted, they should run it through a decision-making chart and, having discerned the appropriate factual and non-emotional response, they should post that with "encyclopedia-like neutrality".

The narrative text is followed by debate guidelines, several of which are pretty mundane. But, my definite favorite - in keeping with the narrative that precedes the guidelines - is ... 

"Remember: your goal is to sound like an encyclopedia robot."   :o

Why didn't I think of that in my day as mod over there?  ???

The place never ceases to amaze.

Many years,

Neil
Probably because the bias in favor of Eastern Orthodoxy was palpable. When the moderator is allowing threads celebrating a Catholic's defection to Eastern Orthodoxy, he certainly cannot give the advice the provided above. He'd have to practice what he preaches first.
What's the problem? From your church's position, they were just moving to the other lung.

In Christ,
Andrew
The other lung is the collection of eastern traditions and theology, not the Eastern Orthodox Church, which we still view as being in schism from the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. The fact that the Catholic Church views it in this way, can be seen from the magisterium's response to the Zohby initiative.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline danman916

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 80
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2011, 02:14:06 PM »
there's a reason why many people (and this latin rite Catholic) rarely, if ever, post over there anymore.

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,580
  • Barlaam and Josaphat
    • The Mystical Theology
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2011, 02:20:11 PM »
there's a reason why many people (and this latin rite Catholic) rarely, if ever, post over there anymore.
Some of us are banned for life.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline stanley123

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,809
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2011, 02:33:42 PM »
there's a reason why many people (and this latin rite Catholic) rarely, if ever, post over there anymore.
Some of us are banned for life.
This is one of the most unreasonable things that I can think of. I don't know why Joe Monahan would ban people for life, thereby giving them no chance for redemption.

Offline JR

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 381
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2011, 02:36:43 PM »
there's a reason why many people (and this latin rite Catholic) rarely, if ever, post over there anymore.
Some of us are banned for life.

Yes, and I am one of them, no warnings, no emails, just logged on to find a screen saying lifetime ban.

So mature of those robots lol

 ???
"If you judge people, you have no time to love them".

Mother Teresa

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,580
  • Barlaam and Josaphat
    • The Mystical Theology
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2011, 02:38:08 PM »
there's a reason why many people (and this latin rite Catholic) rarely, if ever, post over there anymore.
Some of us are banned for life.
This is one of the most unreasonable things that I can think of. I don't know why Joe Monahan would ban people for life, thereby giving them no chance for redemption.
Redemption? What's that?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 02:38:34 PM by Jetavan »
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Orest

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,021
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2011, 02:39:14 PM »
Is this all an inside joke"?  What is CAF?

Offline JR

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 381
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2011, 02:41:29 PM »
there's a reason why many people (and this latin rite Catholic) rarely, if ever, post over there anymore.
Some of us are banned for life.
This is one of the most unreasonable things that I can think of. I don't know why Joe Monahan would ban people for life, thereby giving them no chance for redemption.
Redemption? What's that?

Redemption is something that CAF are not aware off !
"If you judge people, you have no time to love them".

Mother Teresa

Offline stanley123

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,809
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2011, 02:42:27 PM »
there's a reason why many people (and this latin rite Catholic) rarely, if ever, post over there anymore.
Some of us are banned for life.
This is one of the most unreasonable things that I can think of. I don't know why Joe Monahan would ban people for life, thereby giving them no chance for redemption.
Redemption? What's that?
In this context, I meant lifting the ban. It was an attempt at kindof a joke.

Offline Schultz

  • Christian. Guitarist. Scooterist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,530
  • Scion of the McKeesport Becks.
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2011, 02:50:33 PM »
I apologize in advance for revisiting the subject of CAF - but this couldn't pass without comment ...

The EC (remember, that's 'Eastern Catholic' these days - not 'Eastern Christi0anity' as it was in our time) forum Mod has posted some new guidelines there on charitable and civil debate.

In keeping with the rules here, I won't quote her post, but the essence is that posters should think of themselves as "robots". When someone objects to something they've posted, they should run it through a decision-making chart and, having discerned the appropriate factual and non-emotional response, they should post that with "encyclopedia-like neutrality".

The narrative text is followed by debate guidelines, several of which are pretty mundane. But, my definite favorite - in keeping with the narrative that precedes the guidelines - is ... 

"Remember: your goal is to sound like an encyclopedia robot."   :o

Why didn't I think of that in my day as mod over there?  ???

The place never ceases to amaze.

Many years,

Neil
Probably because the bias in favor of Eastern Orthodoxy was palpable. When the moderator is allowing threads celebrating a Catholic's defection to Eastern Orthodoxy, he certainly cannot give the advice the provided above. He'd have to practice what he preaches first.
What's the problem? From your church's position, they were just moving to the other lung.

In Christ,
Andrew
The other lung is the collection of eastern traditions and theology, not the Eastern Orthodox Church, which we still view as being in schism from the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. The fact that the Catholic Church views it in this way, can be seen from the magisterium's response to the Zohby initiative.

If this is totally true, why are Orthodox Christians allowed to commune in RC churches?
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,640
  • Praying for the Christians in Iraq
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2011, 02:54:04 PM »
I apologize in advance for revisiting the subject of CAF - but this couldn't pass without comment ...

The EC (remember, that's 'Eastern Catholic' these days - not 'Eastern Christi0anity' as it was in our time) forum Mod has posted some new guidelines there on charitable and civil debate.

In keeping with the rules here, I won't quote her post, but the essence is that posters should think of themselves as "robots". When someone objects to something they've posted, they should run it through a decision-making chart and, having discerned the appropriate factual and non-emotional response, they should post that with "encyclopedia-like neutrality".

The narrative text is followed by debate guidelines, several of which are pretty mundane. But, my definite favorite - in keeping with the narrative that precedes the guidelines - is ...  

"Remember: your goal is to sound like an encyclopedia robot."   :o

Why didn't I think of that in my day as mod over there?  ???

The place never ceases to amaze.

Many years,

Neil
Probably because the bias in favor of Eastern Orthodoxy was palpable. When the moderator is allowing threads celebrating a Catholic's defection to Eastern Orthodoxy, he certainly cannot give the advice the provided above. He'd have to practice what he preaches first.
What's the problem? From your church's position, they were just moving to the other lung.

In Christ,
Andrew
The other lung is the collection of eastern traditions and theology, not the Eastern Orthodox Church, which we still view as being in schism from the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. The fact that the Catholic Church views it in this way, can be seen from the magisterium's response to the Zohby initiative.

If this is totally true, why are Orthodox Christians allowed to commune in RC churches?
Good questions. Probably because your faith is close enough to ours, and that you have a partial unity with Catholics, in that you have valid sacrments. This does not mean we think you are the Church, but we do think that elements of the Church exist in Eastern Orthodoxy. Evidence that we don't view your Church as part of "the Church" is found in the fact that we will not concelebrate liturgy with the Eastern Orthodox.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 02:55:12 PM by Papist »
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Cavaradossi

  • 法網恢恢,疏而不漏
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,670
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2011, 03:06:53 PM »
I apologize in advance for revisiting the subject of CAF - but this couldn't pass without comment ...

The EC (remember, that's 'Eastern Catholic' these days - not 'Eastern Christi0anity' as it was in our time) forum Mod has posted some new guidelines there on charitable and civil debate.

In keeping with the rules here, I won't quote her post, but the essence is that posters should think of themselves as "robots". When someone objects to something they've posted, they should run it through a decision-making chart and, having discerned the appropriate factual and non-emotional response, they should post that with "encyclopedia-like neutrality".

The narrative text is followed by debate guidelines, several of which are pretty mundane. But, my definite favorite - in keeping with the narrative that precedes the guidelines - is ... 

"Remember: your goal is to sound like an encyclopedia robot."   :o

Why didn't I think of that in my day as mod over there?  ???

The place never ceases to amaze.

Many years,

Neil
Probably because the bias in favor of Eastern Orthodoxy was palpable. When the moderator is allowing threads celebrating a Catholic's defection to Eastern Orthodoxy, he certainly cannot give the advice the provided above. He'd have to practice what he preaches first.

Don't worry, I'm sure he'll burn in hell for causing you such grievous offense. (Or maybe you can just let go of such silly grievances, if you possess the maturity).
I would hope that you would possess the maturity to be able to address a relevant issue. Joe's moderation of that subform was constantly painted by his biases, yet he is suggesting that the posters on CAF should not let their emotions get involved. This is problematic. When you defend this it appears that  you support bias, but I hope that is not the case.

Joe is no longer a mod at CAF. That handle has been 'retired.' This is a different moderator who posted the quoted request.
Be comforted, and have faith, O Israel, for your God is infinitely simple and one, composed of no parts.

Online biro

  • Excelsior
  • Site Supporter
  • Hoplitarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,601
    • Alaska Volcanoes
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2011, 03:39:38 PM »
Quote from: Schultz
If this is totally true, why are Orthodox Christians allowed to commune in RC churches?

Yes, that was still the policy listed in the last Roman Missal I had, not too long ago. As far as I know, they accept Eastern Orthodox to Communion. Not sure what the rule is in regard to Oriental Orthodox.
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

Offline the slave

  • intolerant of intolerance
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 810
  • Faith: UGCC
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2011, 03:46:21 PM »
.......

Joe is no longer a mod at CAF. That handle has been 'retired.' This is a different moderator who posted the quoted request.

Ummm Joe did not retire - he was forcibly retired :( and has now been banned  - like many of us
"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."
- St. John Maximovitch

Offline Schultz

  • Christian. Guitarist. Scooterist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,530
  • Scion of the McKeesport Becks.
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2011, 03:47:47 PM »
I apologize in advance for revisiting the subject of CAF - but this couldn't pass without comment ...

The EC (remember, that's 'Eastern Catholic' these days - not 'Eastern Christi0anity' as it was in our time) forum Mod has posted some new guidelines there on charitable and civil debate.

In keeping with the rules here, I won't quote her post, but the essence is that posters should think of themselves as "robots". When someone objects to something they've posted, they should run it through a decision-making chart and, having discerned the appropriate factual and non-emotional response, they should post that with "encyclopedia-like neutrality".

The narrative text is followed by debate guidelines, several of which are pretty mundane. But, my definite favorite - in keeping with the narrative that precedes the guidelines - is ...  

"Remember: your goal is to sound like an encyclopedia robot."   :o

Why didn't I think of that in my day as mod over there?  ???

The place never ceases to amaze.

Many years,

Neil
Probably because the bias in favor of Eastern Orthodoxy was palpable. When the moderator is allowing threads celebrating a Catholic's defection to Eastern Orthodoxy, he certainly cannot give the advice the provided above. He'd have to practice what he preaches first.
What's the problem? From your church's position, they were just moving to the other lung.

In Christ,
Andrew
The other lung is the collection of eastern traditions and theology, not the Eastern Orthodox Church, which we still view as being in schism from the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. The fact that the Catholic Church views it in this way, can be seen from the magisterium's response to the Zohby initiative.

If this is totally true, why are Orthodox Christians allowed to commune in RC churches?
Good questions. Probably because your faith is close enough to ours, and that you have a partial unity with Catholics, in that you have valid sacrments. This does not mean we think you are the Church, but we do think that elements of the Church exist in Eastern Orthodoxy. Evidence that we don't view your Church as part of "the Church" is found in the fact that we will not concelebrate liturgy with the Eastern Orthodox.

So I can go to communion in a church that I have only "partial" unity with?  That doesn't make any sense.  I was always taught that receiving communion meant that you were in "union" with the Church.  

As for your final statement, I'm pretty sure that's because of the other way around, that the Orthodox will not concelebrate with Roman Catholics.
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Offline dzheremi

  • No longer posting here.
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,383
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2011, 03:56:15 PM »
Schultz: The Roman church essentially says "close enough". I don't get it either, but what I was taught in RCIA is that the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches are closer to one another than any other two churches, and hence, while not being in full union, the Eastern Orthodox who is properly disposed may commune due to that perceived closeness. It's like you're more estranged than separated. This goes along with the view expressed by many Romans that the schism should be healed already, as it was mostly a result of human pride and arrogance or some such.

Again, I don't get it, but that's what I remember hearing when I asked my priest this very question. It seems that the Roman Catholic Church sees unity in terms of degree rather than absolutes

Offline Maria

  • Orthodox Christian
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,524
  • O most Holy Theotokos, save us.
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: GOC
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2011, 04:06:05 PM »
I am a sleeper agent there, just lurk very infrequently, but do not post.
Therefore, I have not yet been banned.

Oh, I just noticed that the OCD/Scrupulosity Group is the most active thread at CAF.  ::)
Why does this not surprise me? The Baltimore Catechism promotes scrupulosity with its definition of mortal and venial sins.


« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 04:25:33 PM by Maria »
Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!

Offline Cavaradossi

  • 法網恢恢,疏而不漏
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,670
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2011, 04:08:28 PM »
.......

Joe is no longer a mod at CAF. That handle has been 'retired.' This is a different moderator who posted the quoted request.

Ummm Joe did not retire - he was forcibly retired :( and has now been banned  - like many of us

Yes, that's why I wrote, 'retired,' and not simply retired without the scare quotes.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 04:08:42 PM by Cavaradossi »
Be comforted, and have faith, O Israel, for your God is infinitely simple and one, composed of no parts.

Offline Schultz

  • Christian. Guitarist. Scooterist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,530
  • Scion of the McKeesport Becks.
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2011, 04:18:12 PM »
Schultz: The Roman church essentially says "close enough". I don't get it either, but what I was taught in RCIA is that the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches are closer to one another than any other two churches, and hence, while not being in full union, the Eastern Orthodox who is properly disposed may commune due to that perceived closeness. It's like you're more estranged than separated. This goes along with the view expressed by many Romans that the schism should be healed already, as it was mostly a result of human pride and arrogance or some such.

Again, I don't get it, but that's what I remember hearing when I asked my priest this very question. It seems that the Roman Catholic Church sees unity in terms of degree rather than absolutes

Oh, I know what the Roman church says.  I'm just trying to understand Papist's remark in light of the fact that I can, were I so inclined, skip up to the Basilica during lunch and receive communion if I wanted to do so.

Communion is a mark of who is "in church" and who is not. 
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Offline Maria

  • Orthodox Christian
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,524
  • O most Holy Theotokos, save us.
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: GOC
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2011, 04:28:23 PM »
Schultz: The Roman church essentially says "close enough". I don't get it either, but what I was taught in RCIA is that the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches are closer to one another than any other two churches, and hence, while not being in full union, the Eastern Orthodox who is properly disposed may commune due to that perceived closeness. It's like you're more estranged than separated. This goes along with the view expressed by many Romans that the schism should be healed already, as it was mostly a result of human pride and arrogance or some such.

Again, I don't get it, but that's what I remember hearing when I asked my priest this very question. It seems that the Roman Catholic Church sees unity in terms of degree rather than absolutes

Oh, I know what the Roman church says.  I'm just trying to understand Papist's remark in light of the fact that I can, were I so inclined, skip up to the Basilica during lunch and receive communion if I wanted to do so.

Communion is a mark of who is "in church" and who is not. 

Exactly, the Roman Catholic Church has a very confused sense of ecclesiology.
This comes from modernism, does it not?
Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!

Offline Schultz

  • Christian. Guitarist. Scooterist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,530
  • Scion of the McKeesport Becks.
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2011, 04:31:27 PM »
Schultz: The Roman church essentially says "close enough". I don't get it either, but what I was taught in RCIA is that the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches are closer to one another than any other two churches, and hence, while not being in full union, the Eastern Orthodox who is properly disposed may commune due to that perceived closeness. It's like you're more estranged than separated. This goes along with the view expressed by many Romans that the schism should be healed already, as it was mostly a result of human pride and arrogance or some such.

Again, I don't get it, but that's what I remember hearing when I asked my priest this very question. It seems that the Roman Catholic Church sees unity in terms of degree rather than absolutes

Oh, I know what the Roman church says.  I'm just trying to understand Papist's remark in light of the fact that I can, were I so inclined, skip up to the Basilica during lunch and receive communion if I wanted to do so.

Communion is a mark of who is "in church" and who is not. 

Exactly, the Roman Catholic Church has a very confused sense of ecclesiology.
This comes from modernism, does it not?

That, I don't know.

All I know is that a church that prides its theology on being logical and forthright has a very strange sense of ecclesiology whereby a religious body cannot be considered "part of the church" but whose adherents are allowed to receive the one thing that exemplifies being "part of the church:" namely Holy Communion.
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Offline stanley123

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,809
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2011, 04:47:39 PM »
Schultz: The Roman church essentially says "close enough". I don't get it either, but what I was taught in RCIA is that the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches are closer to one another than any other two churches, and hence, while not being in full union, the Eastern Orthodox who is properly disposed may commune due to that perceived closeness. It's like you're more estranged than separated. This goes along with the view expressed by many Romans that the schism should be healed already, as it was mostly a result of human pride and arrogance or some such.

Again, I don't get it, but that's what I remember hearing when I asked my priest this very question. It seems that the Roman Catholic Church sees unity in terms of degree rather than absolutes

Oh, I know what the Roman church says.  I'm just trying to understand Papist's remark in light of the fact that I can, were I so inclined, skip up to the Basilica during lunch and receive communion if I wanted to do so.

Communion is a mark of who is "in church" and who is not. 

Exactly, the Roman Catholic Church has a very confused sense of ecclesiology.
This comes from modernism, does it not?

That, I don't know.

All I know is that a church that prides its theology on being logical and forthright has a very strange sense of ecclesiology whereby a religious body cannot be considered "part of the church" but whose adherents are allowed to receive the one thing that exemplifies being "part of the church:" namely Holy Communion.
The idea of union comes about from the Catholic teaching that both Churches have a valid Eucharist. It is not seen as a full union.

Online LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,247
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2011, 04:54:40 PM »
Quote
All I know is that a church that prides its theology on being logical and forthright has a very strange sense of ecclesiology whereby a religious body cannot be considered "part of the church" but whose adherents are allowed to receive the one thing that exemplifies being "part of the church:" namely Holy Communion.

Oh, this is brilliant! Hoist by their own petards. Thanks for this, Schultz!

Offline Irish Hermit

  • Kibernetski Kaludjer
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,991
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2011, 04:56:56 PM »

Probably because the bias in favor of Eastern Orthodoxy was palpable. When the moderator is allowing threads celebrating a Catholic's defection to Eastern Orthodoxy, he certainly cannot give the advice the provided above. He'd have to practice what he preaches first.

<quoting myself>:    Thy memory doth fail thee.  I do not recall threads celebrating Catholic conversion to the big O's.   I recall one such thread and the Orthodox response made it clear that they found it distasteful.  I further recall that the section moderator Joe Monahan made a ruling that such a thread would not be tolerated, on either side.

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,640
  • Praying for the Christians in Iraq
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2011, 05:12:41 PM »

Probably because the bias in favor of Eastern Orthodoxy was palpable. When the moderator is allowing threads celebrating a Catholic's defection to Eastern Orthodoxy, he certainly cannot give the advice the provided above. He'd have to practice what he preaches first.

<quoting myself>:    Thy memory doth fail thee.  I do not recall threads celebrating Catholic conversion to the big O's.   I recall one such thread and the Orthodox response made it clear that they found it distasteful.  I further recall that the section moderator Joe Monahan made a ruling that such a thread would not be tolerated, on either side.
I remember an instance when I brought up such a thread to him, and he refused to do anything about it.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,640
  • Praying for the Christians in Iraq
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2011, 05:16:00 PM »
I need to profess a huge mistake on my part and beg Neil's forgiveness. I was confusing Irish Melkite with the moderator Joe. They are most certainly not the same person, and the accusations I was making were directed at Joe.

Neil, I am very sorry. This is a huge mistake on my part. I don't know why I was conflating the two of you. A case of mistaken identity. I really don't know anything about your moderator days over there. Please forgive me.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Irish Hermit

  • Kibernetski Kaludjer
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,991
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2011, 05:27:46 PM »
The other lung is the collection of eastern traditions and theology, not the Eastern Orthodox Church, which we still view as being in schism from the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

Your statement appears out of synch with the teaching of the Pope.

In an address to the Eastern Orthodox Archbishop of Cyprus, Pope Benedict XVI invoked the language of Pope John Paul II and clearly refers to the Eastern Orthodox Church as one of the two lungs of the Church:

"Thank you, Your Beatitude, for this gesture of esteem and brotherly friendship. In you, I greet the Pastor of an ancient and illustrious Church, a shining tessera of that bright mosaic, the East, which, to use a favourite phrase of the Servant of God John Paul II of venerable memory, constitutes one of the two lungs with which the Church breathes."

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2007/june/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20070616_chrysostomos-ii_en.html


The Pope has worded this wondrously skilfully.  He is saying that the Church of Cyprus is one of the tesserae (a tile which constitutes part of a mosaic) which "constitutes one of the two lungs with which the Church breathes."

« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 05:36:33 PM by Irish Hermit »

Offline Deacon Lance

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,131
  • Faith: Byzantine Catholic
  • Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2011, 06:07:19 PM »
I apologize in advance for revisiting the subject of CAF - but this couldn't pass without comment ...

The EC (remember, that's 'Eastern Catholic' these days - not 'Eastern Christi0anity' as it was in our time) forum Mod has posted some new guidelines there on charitable and civil debate.

In keeping with the rules here, I won't quote her post, but the essence is that posters should think of themselves as "robots". When someone objects to something they've posted, they should run it through a decision-making chart and, having discerned the appropriate factual and non-emotional response, they should post that with "encyclopedia-like neutrality".

The narrative text is followed by debate guidelines, several of which are pretty mundane. But, my definite favorite - in keeping with the narrative that precedes the guidelines - is ...  

"Remember: your goal is to sound like an encyclopedia robot."   :o

Why didn't I think of that in my day as mod over there?  ???

The place never ceases to amaze.

Many years,

Neil
Probably because the bias in favor of Eastern Orthodoxy was palpable. When the moderator is allowing threads celebrating a Catholic's defection to Eastern Orthodoxy, he certainly cannot give the advice the provided above. He'd have to practice what he preaches first.
What's the problem? From your church's position, they were just moving to the other lung.

In Christ,
Andrew
The other lung is the collection of eastern traditions and theology, not the Eastern Orthodox Church, which we still view as being in schism from the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. The fact that the Catholic Church views it in this way, can be seen from the magisterium's response to the Zohby initiative.

If this is totally true, why are Orthodox Christians allowed to commune in RC churches?
Good questions. Probably because your faith is close enough to ours, and that you have a partial unity with Catholics, in that you have valid sacrments. This does not mean we think you are the Church, but we do think that elements of the Church exist in Eastern Orthodoxy. Evidence that we don't view your Church as part of "the Church" is found in the fact that we will not concelebrate liturgy with the Eastern Orthodox.

The Catholic Church does view the various Orthodox Churches as true particular Churches which in turn makes them part of The Church, although imperfectly, which is why we can offer them the sacraments but refrain from full concelebration.
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Offline Irish Hermit

  • Kibernetski Kaludjer
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,991
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2011, 06:13:26 PM »
I apologize in advance for revisiting the subject of CAF - but this couldn't pass without comment ...

The EC (remember, that's 'Eastern Catholic' these days - not 'Eastern Christi0anity' as it was in our time) forum Mod has posted some new guidelines there on charitable and civil debate.

In keeping with the rules here, I won't quote her post, but the essence is that posters should think of themselves as "robots". When someone objects to something they've posted, they should run it through a decision-making chart and, having discerned the appropriate factual and non-emotional response, they should post that with "encyclopedia-like neutrality".

The narrative text is followed by debate guidelines, several of which are pretty mundane. But, my definite favorite - in keeping with the narrative that precedes the guidelines - is ...  

"Remember: your goal is to sound like an encyclopedia robot."   :o

Why didn't I think of that in my day as mod over there?  ???

The place never ceases to amaze.

Many years,

Neil
Probably because the bias in favor of Eastern Orthodoxy was palpable. When the moderator is allowing threads celebrating a Catholic's defection to Eastern Orthodoxy, he certainly cannot give the advice the provided above. He'd have to practice what he preaches first.
What's the problem? From your church's position, they were just moving to the other lung.

In Christ,
Andrew
The other lung is the collection of eastern traditions and theology, not the Eastern Orthodox Church, which we still view as being in schism from the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. The fact that the Catholic Church views it in this way, can be seen from the magisterium's response to the Zohby initiative.

If this is totally true, why are Orthodox Christians allowed to commune in RC churches?
Good questions. Probably because your faith is close enough to ours, and that you have a partial unity with Catholics, in that you have valid sacrments. This does not mean we think you are the Church, but we do think that elements of the Church exist in Eastern Orthodoxy. Evidence that we don't view your Church as part of "the Church" is found in the fact that we will not concelebrate liturgy with the Eastern Orthodox.

The Catholic Church does view the various Orthodox Churches as true particular Churches which in turn makes them part of The Church, although imperfectly, which is why we can offer them the sacraments but refrain from full concelebration.

And yet is that not offering the greater thing (communion) and refraining from the lesser (concelebration)?

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,152
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2011, 06:27:19 PM »
^^Thank you Fr. A and Fr. Deacon for your answers, I was going to attempt to say the same as Papist's understanding is not what his Church has been proclaiming the past number of years.