The Old CAF Crowd Will Love This!

[J Michael]

Whoa!  Nine_Two is now also suspended?


Crazy.

Meh, I stopped following threads on CAF. All interesting posters are either banned or laying low. Only silly people who create threads like "I went to my first Byzantine Mass" are left.

Why do you consider them "silly"?

The names of those threads pretty much gives it away. And besides, they usually don't have enough knowledge to participate in interesting debates. Those debates were the main reason why I kept reading CAF.

True.  Now it is just a round of, "It's not Mass, its Divine Liturgy."  "Yes, you are Catholic you can receive Communion."  "Follow what everyone else does."  "You can cross yourself any which way you like."  Etc.

Okay, whatever...I rarely go there and even more rarely follow any of the threads.

[Peter J]

Whoa!  Nine_Two is now also suspended?


Crazy.

Meh, I stopped following threads on CAF. All interesting posters are either banned or laying low. Only silly people who create threads like "I went to my first Byzantine Mass" are left.

Why do you consider them "silly"?

The names of those threads pretty much gives it away. And besides, they usually don't have enough knowledge to participate in interesting debates. Those debates were the main reason why I kept reading CAF.

True.  Now it is just a round of, "It's not Mass, its Divine Liturgy." 
...

One thing I've learned is that there isn't enough time in life to correct all the mistakes people make. Personally, I think "My Church is a Church, not a Rite" is a higher priority than "It's not Mass, its Divine Liturgy." 

[Cyrillic]

Yes. I noticed that it has become your mission to correct that mistake 

[choy]

Of course its nice to help people curious about Eastern Catholicism (which I highly regard as the "gateway faith" to Orthodoxy ) but its nice if there's some deeper theological discussions ongoing.  And with all the regulars gone, it will be just the "newbies".

[Peter J]

Of course its nice to help people curious about Eastern Catholicism (which I highly regard as the "gateway faith" to Orthodoxy ) but its nice if there's some deeper theological discussions ongoing.  And with all the regulars gone, it will be just the "newbies".

But I never inhaled.

[Peter J]

Yes. I noticed that it has become your mission to correct that mistake 

Actually, I think I'm just behind-the-times. A few years ago it was a pretty widespread struggle between people who say "22 Eastern Catholic Rites" and people who correct people who say "22 Eastern Catholic Rites".

[choy]

One thing I've learned is that there isn't enough time in life to correct all the mistakes people make. Personally, I think "My Church is a Church, not a Rite" is a higher priority than "It's not Mass, its Divine Liturgy." 

Well, it is a Rite

[JoeS2]

You're right about the RCs telling the ECs, they should believe everything the Romans teach.  I have even talked to some RCs (i.e. PJM) who cannot honestly understand why Eastern theology is so contradictory to what Rome teaches and yet they are still in "communion" with the Latin church.

Its like forcing two opposing magnets together.  You can do it but with much difficulty...

[choy]

Dear CAF,

This is what your Pope thinks what a non-Catholic forum should look like:



The Orthodox gets to sit at his right hand. 

[Cyrillic]

The Orthodox gets to sit at his right hand. 

"Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."

 

[J Michael]

nvm

[Cyrillic]

EDIT: Argh, you're fast.

[J Michael]

EDIT: Argh, you're fast.

Yeah...I just didn't think that engaging in a Urinary Olympics during Great Lent was the most appropriate course of action. 

[JoeS2]

Quite frankly, I don't know why we even bother....

[J Michael]

Quite frankly, I don't know why we even bother....

The same thought has crossed my mind more than once.

[JoeS2]

Quite frankly, I don't know why we even bother....

The same thought has crossed my mind more than once.

Finally, something we can agree on.....

[J Michael]

Quite frankly, I don't know why we even bother....

The same thought has crossed my mind more than once.

Finally, something we can agree on.....

A Lenten miracle!!

(Hey, there's always something we can find to agree on, just that on this forum it proves somewhat challenging  .)

[Cyrillic]

I just visited CAF and there was a debate on the filioque (those are fun  ) and someone quoted the filioque in the Athanasian creed and asked whether the Orthodox call St. Athanasius a lier. I wanted to smash my head through the computer screen.

To be fair through, an Orthodox Christian responded by saying that St. Athanasius was not infallible. I'm not going back again to CAF. I think I prefer the maps to remarks as intelligent as these.

[jmbejdl]

I just visited CAF and there was a debate on the filioque (those are fun  ) and someone quoted the filioque in the Athanasian creed and asked whether the Orthodox call St. Athanasius a lier. I wanted to smash my head through the computer screen.

To be fair through, an Orthodox Christian responded by saying that St. Athanasius was not infallible. I'm not going back again to CAF. I think I prefer the maps to remarks as intelligent as these.

I've never been on CAF, mainly because my closest connection to Roman Catholicism is via my grandmother so I never really felt like it was 'my place'. A couple of time Catholic acquaintances here and elsewhere have suggested I go and see (years ago it has to be said) - looking at this thread, it seems I did the wise thing in declining.

James

[Cyrillic]

By the way, the only one who gave the correct answer to the rhetorical question of the Latin was our very own dzheremi. He was the only one who was able to point out that the Athanasian Creed is a forgery. Dzheremi saved my head and my computer screen 

[Peter J]

I just visited CAF and there was a debate on the filioque (those are fun  ) and someone quoted the filioque in the Athanasian creed

Actually, it says that Spirit is "of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding" ("Spiritus Sanctus a Patre et Filio: non factus, nec creatus, nec genitus, sed procedens.")

Or at least, that's how I first learned it, and Wikipedia agrees.

[Cyrillic]

I meant the doctrine, not the actual wording. I knew that it used et filio (Really!  )

[dzheremi]

By the way, the only one who gave the correct answer to the rhetorical question of the Latin was our very own dzheremi. He was the only one who was able to point out that the Athanasian Creed is a forgery. Dzheremi saved my head and my computer screen 

It's funny...I thought that was common knowledge, but maybe it isn't on internet forums. I remember when they taught us the "Athanasian" Creed when I was RC, they said it was attributed to him by medieval RC tradition (pretty much what I said in the post). There's nothing at all to indicate that it is related to him outside of that.

[Apotheoun]

By the way, the only one who gave the correct answer to the rhetorical question of the Latin was our very own dzheremi. He was the only one who was able to point out that the Athanasian Creed is a forgery. Dzheremi saved my head and my computer screen 

It's funny...I thought that was common knowledge, but maybe it isn't on internet forums. I remember when they taught us the "Athanasian" Creed when I was RC, they said it was attributed to him by medieval RC tradition (pretty much what I said in the post). There's nothing at all to indicate that it is related to him outside of that.

The things I have read about the "Athanasian Creed" indicate that it was written in southern France sometime in the late fifth or early sixth century, a hundred or more years after the time of St. Athanasios.

[Cyrillic]

By the way, the only one who gave the correct answer to the rhetorical question of the Latin was our very own dzheremi. He was the only one who was able to point out that the Athanasian Creed is a forgery. Dzheremi saved my head and my computer screen 

It's funny...I thought that was common knowledge, but maybe it isn't on internet forums. I remember when they taught us the "Athanasian" Creed when I was RC, they said it was attributed to him by medieval RC tradition (pretty much what I said in the post). There's nothing at all to indicate that it is related to him outside of that.

The things I have read about the "Athanasian Creed" indicate that it was written in southern France sometime in the late fifth or early sixth century, a hundred or more years after the time of St. Athanasios.

I've read that it was written in Vandal-occupied North-Africa. In either case the document wasn't written by St. Athanasius.

[Romaios]

Most Greek Horologia still include the (pseudo-)Athanasian Creed, of course without the Filioque. I think this goes back to the time when Greeks had their books printed in Venice. A footnote in a Horologion printed there in 1856 explains:

Semeiosai, hoti to anothen Symbolon tou Megalou Athanasiou, synkrithen tois archaiotatois cheirographois tois sozomenois en te tou hagiou Markou Bibliotheke, kai symphonon heurethen gnesion te kai homophonoun te gnome tes Orthodoxou Ekklesias, edoxe touto typothenai. Ta gar typothenta en Parisiois kai allothi diapherousi kata te ten phrasin kai ten ennoian. Touto de, aparallakton kai tou en Moschodia typothentos, eusebei gnome entautha prosetethe.

"We mention that the Symbol of the Great Athanasios printed above was compared to the oldest manuscripts kept in the Library of St. Mark and, since it was found according, authentic and in agreement with the mind of the Orthodox Church, it was judged fit to be printed. The versions printed in Paris and in other places are discordant both in their phrasing and in their intention (with the Orthodox faith), but this one, just like the one printed in Moscow, was added here in good faith." 

[Peter J]

Most Greek Horologia still include the (pseudo-)Athanasian Creed, of course without the Filioque.

The Athanasian Creed says that Spirit is "of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding". It doesn't say "the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son".

[Romaios]

Most Greek Horologia still include the (pseudo-)Athanasian Creed, of course without the Filioque.

The Athanasian Creed says that Spirit is "of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding". It doesn't say "the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son".

Well, the Greek version I was referring to goes like this:

Τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ Ἅγιον ἀπὸ τοῦ Πατρός, οὐ πεποιημένον οὔτε δεδημιουργημένον οὔτε γεγεννημένον, ἀλλ'ἐκπορευτόν.

"The Holy Spirit [is] from the Father - neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding".

The Latin original has:

Spiritus Sanctus a Patre et Filio: non factus, nec creatus, nec genitus, sed procedens.

* et Filio = Filioque.

[Asteriktos]

I've been receiving CAF emails asking for money. Could someone please give them the $11,000 (!) they are asking for?

[Peter J]

I've been receiving CAF emails asking for money. Could someone please give them the $11,000 (!) they are asking for?

I think I speak for everyone hear when I say

no Eastern Christianity Forum = no donations

(Well, maybe not everyone here. But most.)

[stanley123]

Most Greek Horologia still include the (pseudo-)Athanasian Creed, of course without the Filioque.

The Athanasian Creed says that Spirit is "of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding". It doesn't say "the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son".

Well, the Greek version I was referring to goes like this:

Τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ Ἅγιον ἀπὸ τοῦ Πατρός, οὐ πεποιημένον οὔτε δεδημιουργημένον οὔτε γεγεννημένον, ἀλλ'ἐκπορευτόν.

"The Holy Spirit [is] from the Father - neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding".

The Latin original has:

Spiritus Sanctus a Patre et Filio: non factus, nec creatus, nec genitus, sed procedens.

* et Filio = Filioque.

The claim is that the filioque was a later addition to the original Athanasian creed, which did not have it.

[Cyrillic]

no Eastern Christianity Forum = no donations

Most of us would be banned by the end of the week anyway. They don't take kindly to debate over there. Strange for an apologetics forum.

[theistgal]

no Eastern Christianity Forum = no donations

Most of us would be banned by the end of the week anyway. They don't take kindly to debate over there. Strange for an apologetics forum.

Yet there are still a few of us who manage to hang on over there ... AND here ... both boards have their pros & cons. 

[JoeS2]

I've been receiving CAF emails asking for money. Could someone please give them the $11,000 (!) they are asking for?

Oh, by all means, allow me to check my pockets....................Nope not a cent......Then again Im one of the "Banned for Lifers"...

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