OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 25, 2014, 05:14:12 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: wearing a suit and tie  (Read 6298 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
katherineofdixie
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,360



« Reply #90 on: December 08, 2011, 05:54:34 PM »

My great-grandmother never left the house to go "downtown" without dressing nicely, including hat and gloves, even if only to go to the dime store or to pay the electric bill.

And she worked in a cotton mill and lived in a shotgun house in the mill village.

As far as the poor dressing in their best, I have noticed the same thing in our parish. We have some homeless people who show up sporadically, but they always make an effort to be as clean and presentable as they can be.

I don't get this "the president isn't wearing suits anymore," either since most of the time when I see President Obama on tv, he is wearing a suit - he most certainly wears a suit when it's an important occasion.

« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 05:56:42 PM by katherineofdixie » Logged

"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,601


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #91 on: December 08, 2011, 06:33:09 PM »

My personal opinion:

We ought to look our best when entering the house of God. Ideally, our outward appearance should be a reflection of our inward disposition. I think this is a very Orthodox idea. Our priests and bishops are vested in precious materials, to be a reflection of the dignity of their office. Our time period is the first in history when we actually prefer to dress down in public. In our parents' and grandparents' day, you wear suits even when leaving the house. I think this went along with the general seriousness they had with life. Our generation does not know what gravitas is. This era has no room for reverence and propriety, which have been set aside for weddings and graduations, etc.. These are the last remaining reminders of an "other world." We Orthodox, and traditional Christians in general, should be the first to correct this aberration in modern society.

Obviously, the poor should not be looked down upon for what they can and cannot afford. But this is something the Church has had to deal with from the very beginning. This ought not be an excuse to come to Church indecently. Notice that the poor still want to wear their best, like the widow who offered her two pennies. An yet we, who can bring ten bags of gold, offer the same two pennies.

The argument that since holy fools and monks dress poorly, we should do the same seems rather absurd to me. We should seek to imitate their humility. Sometimes humility means conforming to propriety. If anyone is inspired to take up the monastic habit, then good for them obviously, but the habit does not the monk make. And over-exaggerated humility is one of the best ways to fall in delusion.

Wonderfuly expressed! I wholeheartedly agree with you.
Logged
akimori makoto
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-heretical Christian
Jurisdiction: Fully-sik-hektic archdiocese of Australia, bro
Posts: 3,126

No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...


« Reply #92 on: December 08, 2011, 08:06:54 PM »

My personal opinion:

We ought to look our best when entering the house of God. Ideally, our outward appearance should be a reflection of our inward disposition. I think this is a very Orthodox idea. Our priests and bishops are vested in precious materials, to be a reflection of the dignity of their office. Our time period is the first in history when we actually prefer to dress down in public. In our parents' and grandparents' day, you wear suits even when leaving the house. I think this went along with the general seriousness they had with life. Our generation does not know what gravitas is. This era has no room for reverence and propriety, which have been set aside for weddings and graduations, etc.. These are the last remaining reminders of an "other world." We Orthodox, and traditional Christians in general, should be the first to correct this aberration in modern society.

Obviously, the poor should not be looked down upon for what they can and cannot afford. But this is something the Church has had to deal with from the very beginning. This ought not be an excuse to come to Church indecently. Notice that the poor still want to wear their best, like the widow who offered her two pennies. An yet we, who can bring ten bags of gold, offer the same two pennies.

The argument that since holy fools and monks dress poorly, we should do the same seems rather absurd to me. We should seek to imitate their humility. Sometimes humility means conforming to propriety. If anyone is inspired to take up the monastic habit, then good for them obviously, but the habit does not the monk make. And over-exaggerated humility is one of the best ways to fall in delusion.

Wonderfuly expressed! I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Excellent points re dignity of living.

Speaking of the "other world" and the remembrance thereof, I must say that I can't think of any mode of clothing more symbolic of this world and its values than the business suit, especially one starkly pin-striped, accompanied by a sharp tie and some polished shoes.
Logged

The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #93 on: December 08, 2011, 08:25:07 PM »

I don't believe suits somehow translate into being better dressed for God.

If anything, I'd rather be naked.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
orthonorm
Warned
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,523



« Reply #94 on: December 08, 2011, 08:34:54 PM »

I ain't even getting put into a suit when I am placed whatever container holds my body at my repose.

Doing the work of God ain't going to a job interview or anything else wordly where their values of vanity reign.

Plus there are many practical reasons for Christians not to be wearing expensive clothes or cheap clothes impersonating expensive clothes.

Unless you are showing up for some sort of Gala for God.

It is time to work. I don't work in a suit.

« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 08:35:27 PM by orthonorm » Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
Orthodox11
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,999


« Reply #95 on: December 08, 2011, 08:39:25 PM »

Speaking of the "other world" and the remembrance thereof, I must say that I can't think of any mode of clothing more symbolic of this world and its values than the business suit, especially one starkly pin-striped, accompanied by a sharp tie and some polished shoes.

I agree. On days where I have to wear a suit because of some meeting at university, I will always change to something less showy if I go to church later that day. The only days of the year I'd wear one to church are Christmas and Easter, just to avoid standing out or offending those who consider other attire improper.
Logged
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Warned
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 14,073


Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου

fleem
WWW
« Reply #96 on: December 08, 2011, 08:48:33 PM »

I'll reveal a secret here: I'm jealous of the altar servers because they get to wear awesome vestments. The subdeacons wear black robes. They look like judges.  Cheesy
Logged

Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

http://spcasuncoast.org/
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,917



« Reply #97 on: December 08, 2011, 10:57:33 PM »

I will say that bluejeans hanging out from underneath vestments or cassocks is TACKY.
Logged
HandmaidenofGod
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA (Ecumenical Patriarch)
Posts: 3,397


O Holy St. Demetrius pray to God for us!


« Reply #98 on: December 08, 2011, 11:18:26 PM »

Speaking of the "other world" and the remembrance thereof, I must say that I can't think of any mode of clothing more symbolic of this world and its values than the business suit, especially one starkly pin-striped, accompanied by a sharp tie and some polished shoes.

There is a difference between being well dressed and being flashy.

You know it and I know it.

Logged

"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11
LBK
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 11,179


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #99 on: December 08, 2011, 11:26:53 PM »

I will say that bluejeans hanging out from underneath vestments or cassocks is TACKY.

True story no.1:

Lad in his late teens, college student, senior altarboy, and epistle reader. The Metropolitan of ROCOR was visiting his city, and there was a Vigil to be served on a weeknight. Being senior altarboy, he knew he had to be there on time. But he had a late lecture that day: so, should he skip the lecture, leaving him plenty of time to ride his bike home, change, and ride to church? Or should he go to the lecture, and ride straight to church? His mother, a church singer herself, and his grandmother, the head of the church women's group, left it up to him.

The lad went to the late lecture, then rode like mad to the church. He got there on time, and served as was proper. In jeans under his stikharion. At a service where the Metropolitan of ROCOR was in attendance.

True story no. 2:

Lad in his early twenties, going through a rebellious phase, dresses like a cross between a rock god and a Goth (though without the makeup, thank God). Turns up under sufferance to serve in the altar on a Sunday morning, in black trousers tucked into chunky calf-length boots sporting several broad side-straps inserted into large silver buckles. He has a habit of standing with legs quite apart. The boots and straps are clearly visible in the side splits of his stikharion.

Which is tackier, Alveus?
Logged
akimori makoto
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-heretical Christian
Jurisdiction: Fully-sik-hektic archdiocese of Australia, bro
Posts: 3,126

No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...


« Reply #100 on: December 08, 2011, 11:48:17 PM »

Speaking of the "other world" and the remembrance thereof, I must say that I can't think of any mode of clothing more symbolic of this world and its values than the business suit, especially one starkly pin-striped, accompanied by a sharp tie and some polished shoes.

There is a difference between being well dressed and being flashy.

You know it and I know it.

Yes, and sometimes one justifies itself by masquerading as the other: that's all I'm on guard against.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 11:59:19 PM by akimori makoto » Logged

The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
Jack Bauer
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Rite
Posts: 35



« Reply #101 on: December 09, 2011, 02:13:17 AM »

I will say that bluejeans hanging out from underneath vestments or cassocks is TACKY.
And grounds for dismissal.  One girl used to serve at our parish and I nearly croaked when I saw her wearing that short jean skirt.  At least she wore a cassock over it.  On the other hand, when a woman reader went forward and made the profound "bow", if I noticed I always watched my children's directed view to insure I covered their eyes before the show started.  I'm surprised no one tried to stick a dollar on her skirt... or whatever that was. 

As far as dressing tasteful and appropriate.  The wearing of ties is really not as important as dressing modestly.  I realize that sometimes people come to mass in the middle of vacation or find themselves out of place.  That's why I think a cover of sorts might not be a bad idea in some situations.  Ever seen a young girl show up in a bathing suit and flipflops?   
Logged

“I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.”
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,121


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #102 on: December 09, 2011, 03:02:47 AM »

What would you wear in front of CEO?
What would you wear in front of president of USA?
What would you wear in front of God, Creator of Universe, at Church.

I love those hymns.

Almighty President of the Universe, receive our prayers!
Thrice Holy Elected Official of the Heavenly Federation, have mercy on us!

You know, the president of the USA rarely wears suits himself anymore. A good indicator that he won't be let into the Great Dread and Final Inauguration.

Keep posting.  I desire more laughter.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,121


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #103 on: December 09, 2011, 03:07:30 AM »

I ain't even getting put into a suit when I am placed whatever container holds my body at my repose.

Doing the work of God ain't going to a job interview or anything else wordly where their values of vanity reign.

Plus there are many practical reasons for Christians not to be wearing expensive clothes or cheap clothes impersonating expensive clothes.

Unless you are showing up for some sort of Gala for God.

It is time to work. I don't work in a suit.

I hope to be buried, with my body wrapped in a couple of (preferably old) towels, in the cheapest coffin possible.  I see little reason to put perfectly good, nice clothing into the ground, and to do so in an expensive, elaborate box.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
Anastasia1
My warrior name is Beyoncé Pad Thai
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Occasionally traveling, Armenian.
Posts: 1,193



« Reply #104 on: December 09, 2011, 04:56:17 AM »

i see a good representation of suits and ties at my parish. i dont wear one, primarily becuase i dont have one.

I have a total of one suit. I only wear it to Liturgy on Christmas, Pascha, or the other Great Feasts. Other than that it's one of my three dress shirts and a pair of black jeans. That said, if I had the expendable income, I might start wearing suits more often.
I support suits. Just a general statement, if anyone cares...

I have not paid too much attention to the suit and tie bit, but I know that Orthodox are more formal than some.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 04:56:38 AM by Anastasia1 » Logged

Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation. (2 Cor 2:6)
Jack Bauer
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Rite
Posts: 35



« Reply #105 on: December 10, 2011, 04:05:03 AM »

I ain't even getting put into a suit when I am placed whatever container holds my body at my repose.

Doing the work of God ain't going to a job interview or anything else wordly where their values of vanity reign.

Plus there are many practical reasons for Christians not to be wearing expensive clothes or cheap clothes impersonating expensive clothes.

Unless you are showing up for some sort of Gala for God.

It is time to work. I don't work in a suit.

I hope to be buried, with my body wrapped in a couple of (preferably old) towels, in the cheapest coffin possible.  I see little reason to put perfectly good, nice clothing into the ground, and to do so in an expensive, elaborate box.

My dad used to always tell me to throw him in a plain wooden box as quick as possible and start praying for him immediately.  When he died and I was now the eldest, not by choice, I had that option.  As much as I wanted to honor his request, I couldn't bear the thought of them cramming his legs in the military style coffin.  He was 6'4" and the box was about 6'.  When I was planning on doing it anyway, in my embarrassment, my 2nd cousins, very wealthy, offered to pay for his entire funeral.  I was re leaved and picked an appropriate coffin his size as modest as I could find.  I kept everything simple, even allowed a Catholic Mass, even though I was quite anti-Catholic at the time.  I was determined, that in spite my anger towards him and his poor treatment of me, to treat him with as much respect as I could, in between the my cursing at him.  Both my parents and my brother left a lot of baggage in my life to sift through.  I was very thankful for my cousins.  One owns a company worth over $350 million and the other, other than having a bug named after him, is well known in the environmental restoration industry in Alabama.  I was brainwashed with the silly idea that dressing for success is how you make it.  Not true at all.  I'm the geek that went to school wearing slacks.  I was a seminarian and dressed well in the seminary when the guys were all wearing jeans, shorts, and flipflops.  Thankfully, now, they are required to dress a bit better.

I really want to be buried in a box too.  I'm not nearly as tall as my father and would fit fine.  I feel that I earned it and it can easily be covered with a nice cloth of sorts, maybe a cross of sorts like the Musketeers.  Wink  OO OOO... I just thought of it.  I could be buried in a Musketeer uniform.  Fleur de Lis.  A must with my French heritage that precedes the Louisiana Purchase.  I'm "blue blood"... Wink
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 04:09:33 AM by Jack Bauer » Logged

“I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.”
Punch
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Body of Christ
Posts: 5,570



« Reply #106 on: December 10, 2011, 02:35:32 PM »

I wear what I always wear when I am in Church.  I usually wear neutral colored shirts with pockets and neutral colored pants.  "Flashy" for me would be if I wear something that is not Tan, Green or Black.  I have never had any use for a suit and tie.  I was asked once by a manager why I did not wear a tie, and I told him that I had no need of one.  I see a tie much like the string on a feminine hygiene product, it is only of use to get something out of somewhere - in the case of Management, their hind end.  After that, I noticed a lot fewer Supervisors and Managers wearing ties, even if they kept the jacket. I wear clothes to be comfortable and to fulfil a purpose.  I do not wear them to project some kind of an image.  I do not like the vestments worn in Church, and I much perfer my black Gibi when I serve at the altar.  My priest has blessed me to wear it, and I am happy for that. One of the reasons that I have delayed seeking ordination as a Subdeacon (which is what the Priest would like me to do) is that I will have to spend hundreds of dollars on vestments so that I can look like Liberace instead of simply wearing my black robe.  What a waste of money, particularly in these times when it could be put to such better use.  But, I guess the poor will always be with us . . . 

As to being concerned about what I wear before God - what a joke.  God knows everything and sees everything.  He knows what I am and he knows my sins.  I see no reason to gild a turd.  If anything, I would think that to attempt such would be insulting to him.  As to wearing shorts and tee shirts to Church, I never wear such anywhere, so there is no danger of me wearing them to Church.  Quite frankly, I am far more bothered by the women who disrespect God by refusing to follow His Scriptural command to cover their heads in Church than I am with what else they or the men wear.  And even then, that is between them and God and not between them and me.  Our Priest will not confess or commune a woman who's head is uncovered, and I always keep a scarf nearby or under my Gibi in case the issue comes up (which it does when some New-Calendarists visit) so that there is not a scene and nobody is embarrassed.
Logged

I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.
Gamliel
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 2,217



« Reply #107 on: December 10, 2011, 02:40:29 PM »

I ain't even getting put into a suit when I am placed whatever container holds my body at my repose.

Doing the work of God ain't going to a job interview or anything else wordly where their values of vanity reign.

Plus there are many practical reasons for Christians not to be wearing expensive clothes or cheap clothes impersonating expensive clothes.

Unless you are showing up for some sort of Gala for God.

It is time to work. I don't work in a suit.


+++
Logged
Cognomen
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Phyletism Rules, OK
Posts: 1,968


Ungrateful Biped


« Reply #108 on: December 10, 2011, 05:08:34 PM »

So for all the charges that suits (and clothing consciousness in general) represent superficiality and worldliness, why do our clergy have standardized, formal, arguably showy and impractical vestments?  Does this hinder them from doing the work of the people?

My point is that the Church clearly doesn't share the view that clothing (and how we appear before God during His services) is unimportant and "worldly." Not only is it a tradition from the Temple days, but it's part of our complete worship, including sights, sounds, smells, etc.

I'm not saying that a suit is the same as vestments, but I think the whole "I'll wear whatever I want, so long as its comfortable" argument works better for the Evango crowd with their bluejean wearing ministers and anti-sacramental services. There is a certain intrinsic formality to the Church and its services, and I think that wearing something fairly decent is compatible with that. 

As others have stated though, modesty (true modesty is one thing. Stubbornness, laziness, and apathy is quite another) is the most important thing.  So while a flashy, expensive suit/dress, shoes/heels are inappropriate, so are shorts, t-shirts (short sleeved shirts in general). That's certainly part of how monasteries and many parishes here and in the "old countries" interpret modesty.   
Logged

North American Eastern Orthodox Parish Council Delegate for the Canonization of Saints Twin Towers and Pentagon, as well as the Propagation of the Doctrine of the Assumption of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (NAEOPCDCSTTPPDAMAFM®).
akimori makoto
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-heretical Christian
Jurisdiction: Fully-sik-hektic archdiocese of Australia, bro
Posts: 3,126

No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...


« Reply #109 on: December 10, 2011, 06:50:02 PM »

I will say that bluejeans hanging out from underneath vestments or cassocks is TACKY.

True story no.1:

Lad in his late teens, college student, senior altarboy, and epistle reader. The Metropolitan of ROCOR was visiting his city, and there was a Vigil to be served on a weeknight. Being senior altarboy, he knew he had to be there on time. But he had a late lecture that day: so, should he skip the lecture, leaving him plenty of time to ride his bike home, change, and ride to church? Or should he go to the lecture, and ride straight to church? His mother, a church singer herself, and his grandmother, the head of the church women's group, left it up to him.

The lad went to the late lecture, then rode like mad to the church. He got there on time, and served as was proper. In jeans under his stikharion.

Does anyone here suggest he should have gone home and changed first?
Logged

The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
katherine 2001
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 889


Eastern Orthodox Church--Established in 33 A.D.


« Reply #110 on: December 10, 2011, 07:27:45 PM »

About the only time that men wear suits in my parish is for the Paschal liturgy.  Most people do not dress up in Montana.  A lot of men wear jeans to church (nice ones though).  I guarantee you that I am not going to wear a dress or skirt to services when it is -20 (or more outside, and it gets this low without the wind chill figured in). 
Logged
katherine 2001
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 889


Eastern Orthodox Church--Established in 33 A.D.


« Reply #111 on: December 10, 2011, 07:35:27 PM »


St John (Maximovitch) the Wonderworker would not allow anyone serving at the altar to wear a tie because to him it signified a hangman's noose, and symbols of death had no place in the sanctuary (it was also reminiscent of Judas' betrayal). 

I know that my father always considered ties to be torture devices, even though he had to wear one all the time since he was in the Air Force and a tie was part of his uniform.  By the way, St. John Maximovitch usually wore sandals to serve and often served barefoot, especially when he was in China, because he would have given his sandals away on his walk to the cathedral because he would give them to a poor man who had no shoes.
Logged
Cognomen
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Phyletism Rules, OK
Posts: 1,968


Ungrateful Biped


« Reply #112 on: December 10, 2011, 10:39:08 PM »

About the only time that men wear suits in my parish is for the Paschal liturgy.  Most people do not dress up in Montana.   

So the regular liturgies aren't worth it, but the Paschal one is?

Quote
I guarantee you that I am not going to wear a dress or skirt to services when it is -20 (or more outside, and it gets this low without the wind chill figured in).

It gets cold in Russia too. police  Grin

Logged

North American Eastern Orthodox Parish Council Delegate for the Canonization of Saints Twin Towers and Pentagon, as well as the Propagation of the Doctrine of the Assumption of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (NAEOPCDCSTTPPDAMAFM®).
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,481


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #113 on: December 10, 2011, 11:09:01 PM »

I wear what I always wear when I am in Church.  I usually wear neutral colored shirts with pockets and neutral colored pants.  "Flashy" for me would be if I wear something that is not Tan, Green or Black.  I have never had any use for a suit and tie.  I was asked once by a manager why I did not wear a tie, and I told him that I had no need of one.  I see a tie much like the string on a feminine hygiene product, it is only of use to get something out of somewhere - in the case of Management, their hind end.  After that, I noticed a lot fewer Supervisors and Managers wearing ties, even if they kept the jacket. I wear clothes to be comfortable and to fulfil a purpose.  I do not wear them to project some kind of an image.  I do not like the vestments worn in Church, and I much perfer my black Gibi when I serve at the altar.  My priest has blessed me to wear it, and I am happy for that. One of the reasons that I have delayed seeking ordination as a Subdeacon (which is what the Priest would like me to do) is that I will have to spend hundreds of dollars on vestments so that I can look like Liberace instead of simply wearing my black robe.  What a waste of money, particularly in these times when it could be put to such better use.  But, I guess the poor will always be with us . . . 

Actually, you do.  You just explained what your sartorial choices are and why you chose them which project a certain image.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that you don't care about what you wear.  You plainly do.
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
Volnutt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Agnostic/Universalist
Posts: 3,107


« Reply #114 on: December 10, 2011, 11:17:40 PM »

I tend to think everyone does.
Logged
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,481


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #115 on: December 10, 2011, 11:19:47 PM »

I tend to think everyone does.

Not everyone admits it, though, and they are, IMHO, just as bad, if not worse, than those who are at least honest with their feelings while looking down from their high horse.  The former act as if they don't even own such a steed, let alone ride one.
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
Cognomen
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Phyletism Rules, OK
Posts: 1,968


Ungrateful Biped


« Reply #116 on: December 10, 2011, 11:24:53 PM »

I do not wear them to project some kind of an image.   

Actually, you do.  You just explained what your sartorial choices are and why you chose them which project a certain image.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that you don't care about what you wear.  You plainly do.

Yep. You (Punch) have gone out of your way not to wear the normally accepted garb for serving. Claiming that as modest would be a stretch.  

Quote
I do not like the vestments worn in Church, and I much perfer my black Gibi when I serve at the altar...  One of the reasons that I have delayed seeking ordination as a Subdeacon (which is what the Priest would like me to do) is that I will have to spend hundreds of dollars on vestments so that I can look like Liberace instead of simply wearing my black robe.

Continue doing whatever you think is best, while trashing traditions of the Church.  Roll Eyes You highlighted my point though, that the Church thinks that clothing serves a purpose and, on some level, matters.

Maybe I think the melody of some of our hymns are lousy, so I'll just chant what I prefer.
Logged

North American Eastern Orthodox Parish Council Delegate for the Canonization of Saints Twin Towers and Pentagon, as well as the Propagation of the Doctrine of the Assumption of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (NAEOPCDCSTTPPDAMAFM®).
Melodist
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: The Faith That Established The Universe
Jurisdiction: AOANA
Posts: 2,523



« Reply #117 on: December 10, 2011, 11:55:15 PM »

About the only time that men wear suits in my parish is for the Paschal liturgy.  Most people do not dress up in Montana.   
So the regular liturgies aren't worth it, but the Paschal one is?

Are you saying that Pascha is just another sunday?
Logged

And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God
Cognomen
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Phyletism Rules, OK
Posts: 1,968


Ungrateful Biped


« Reply #118 on: December 11, 2011, 12:14:29 AM »

About the only time that men wear suits in my parish is for the Paschal liturgy.  Most people do not dress up in Montana.   
So the regular liturgies aren't worth it, but the Paschal one is?

Are you saying that Pascha is just another sunday?

Nope, but the Lord is present at all Divine Liturgies.
Logged

North American Eastern Orthodox Parish Council Delegate for the Canonization of Saints Twin Towers and Pentagon, as well as the Propagation of the Doctrine of the Assumption of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (NAEOPCDCSTTPPDAMAFM®).
Jack Bauer
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Rite
Posts: 35



« Reply #119 on: December 11, 2011, 01:46:17 AM »

I tend to think everyone does.

Not everyone admits it, though, and they are, IMHO, just as bad, if not worse, than those who are at least honest with their feelings while looking down from their high horse.  The former act as if they don't even own such a steed, let alone ride one.
Hey, I pay good money for my horse.  Let me ride it with style. Grin
Logged

“I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.”
William
Muted
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,354


« Reply #120 on: December 11, 2011, 09:39:39 PM »

I do not like the vestments worn in Church, and I much perfer my black Gibi when I serve at the altar.  My priest has blessed me to wear it, and I am happy for that. One of the reasons that I have delayed seeking ordination as a Subdeacon (which is what the Priest would like me to do) is that I will have to spend hundreds of dollars on vestments so that I can look like Liberace instead of simply wearing my black robe.  What a waste of money, particularly in these times when it could be put to such better use.  But, I guess the poor will always be with us . . . 

As to being concerned about what I wear before God - what a joke.  God knows everything and sees everything.  He knows what I am and he knows my sins.  I see no reason to gild a turd.  If anything, I would think that to attempt such would be insulting to him.  As to wearing shorts and tee shirts to Church, I never wear such anywhere, so there is no danger of me wearing them to Church.  Quite frankly, I am far more bothered by the women who disrespect God by refusing to follow His Scriptural command to cover their heads in Church than I am with what else they or the men wear.  And even then, that is between them and God and not between them and me.  Our Priest will not confess or commune a woman who's head is uncovered, and I always keep a scarf nearby or under my Gibi in case the issue comes up (which it does when some New-Calendarists visit) so that there is not a scene and nobody is embarrassed.

There's a dichotomy between scriptural commands (head coverings) and traditional ones (vestments)?
Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant
LBK
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 11,179


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #121 on: December 11, 2011, 10:26:35 PM »

Quote
There's a dichotomy between scriptural commands (head coverings) and traditional ones (vestments)?

Excellent point! Sola scriptura in reverse!
Logged
Cognomen
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Phyletism Rules, OK
Posts: 1,968


Ungrateful Biped


« Reply #122 on: December 11, 2011, 10:42:28 PM »

Excellent point! Sola scriptura in reverse!

Arutpircs alos!
Logged

North American Eastern Orthodox Parish Council Delegate for the Canonization of Saints Twin Towers and Pentagon, as well as the Propagation of the Doctrine of the Assumption of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (NAEOPCDCSTTPPDAMAFM®).
LBK
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 11,179


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #123 on: December 11, 2011, 10:49:40 PM »

Excellent point! Sola scriptura in reverse!

Arutpircs alos!

Clever, my friend, very clever!  laugh laugh
Logged
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,917



« Reply #124 on: December 11, 2011, 11:18:29 PM »

Quite frankly, I am far more bothered by the women who disrespect God by refusing to follow His Scriptural command to cover their heads in Church than I am with what else they or the men wear.

Are you bothered by the men who disrespect God by refusing to follow his Scriptural command to keep their hair cut short, particularly traditional clergy?
Logged
orthonorm
Warned
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,523



« Reply #125 on: December 11, 2011, 11:29:42 PM »

Quite frankly, I am far more bothered by the women who disrespect God by refusing to follow His Scriptural command to cover their heads in Church than I am with what else they or the men wear.

Are you bothered by the men who disrespect God by refusing to follow his Scriptural command to keep their hair cut short, particularly traditional clergy?

Not to mention to keep their heads uncovered.

Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
LBK
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 11,179


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #126 on: December 11, 2011, 11:30:39 PM »

Quite frankly, I am far more bothered by the women who disrespect God by refusing to follow His Scriptural command to cover their heads in Church than I am with what else they or the men wear.

Are you bothered by the men who disrespect God by refusing to follow his Scriptural command to keep their hair cut short, particularly traditional clergy?

You may wish to look at what St Paul wrote in the original Greek. The word he used for men's hair was not the word for short, but for, to use a modern equivalent, coiffed. There is quite a difference between these words, even today.

If nothing else, look at the great number of early saints and apostles, clerics and laymen, who are depicted in their icons with short hair. That, alone, speaks volumes.
Logged
laconicstudent
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Inquirer
Posts: 319


« Reply #127 on: December 11, 2011, 11:30:44 PM »

I'm poor. I go to church in jeans because they are literally the nicest pants I have right now. If the people who come in the fancy sports cars, wearing expensive watches and tailored suits want to get huffy about it, they can devote some of their apparently quite ample wealth to helping my family make ends meet until we have enough of a surplus for me to purchase vanity clothing.  Cheesy

Logged
LBK
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 11,179


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #128 on: December 11, 2011, 11:32:38 PM »

I'm poor. I go to church in jeans because they are literally the nicest pants I have right now. If the people who come in the fancy sports cars, wearing expensive watches and tailored suits want to get huffy about it, they can devote some of their apparently quite ample wealth to helping my family make ends meet until we have enough of a surplus for me to purchase vanity clothing.  Cheesy



Look at my earlier post on the two altarboys and their choices in clothing.
Logged
laconicstudent
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Inquirer
Posts: 319


« Reply #129 on: December 11, 2011, 11:37:15 PM »

I'm poor. I go to church in jeans because they are literally the nicest pants I have right now. If the people who come in the fancy sports cars, wearing expensive watches and tailored suits want to get huffy about it, they can devote some of their apparently quite ample wealth to helping my family make ends meet until we have enough of a surplus for me to purchase vanity clothing.  Cheesy



Look at my earlier post on the two altarboys and their choices in clothing.

I noticed it already. What about it?
Logged
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,601


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #130 on: December 12, 2011, 11:39:50 AM »

I do not wear them to project some kind of an image.   

Actually, you do.  You just explained what your sartorial choices are and why you chose them which project a certain image.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that you don't care about what you wear.  You plainly do.

Yep. You (Punch) have gone out of your way not to wear the normally accepted garb for serving. Claiming that as modest would be a stretch.  

Quote
I do not like the vestments worn in Church, and I much perfer my black Gibi when I serve at the altar...  One of the reasons that I have delayed seeking ordination as a Subdeacon (which is what the Priest would like me to do) is that I will have to spend hundreds of dollars on vestments so that I can look like Liberace instead of simply wearing my black robe.

Continue doing whatever you think is best, while trashing traditions of the Church.  Roll Eyes You highlighted my point though, that the Church thinks that clothing serves a purpose and, on some level, matters.

Maybe I think the melody of some of our hymns are lousy, so I'll just chant what I prefer.

Actually, I've had to endure cantors who think that way over the years!!!! Wink Wink
Logged
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,601


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #131 on: December 12, 2011, 11:43:19 AM »

Seriously, it seems to me that point ought to be that we be respectful at all times and mindful of our purpose in being at Liturgy or other services at our churches. We had a good crowd yesterday morning and the choir didn't sing, so we were downstairs. I couldn't help but notice as the congregation was leaving Liturgy, that although suits and ties were in the distinct minority (as opposed to twenty or thirty years ago), that everyone,women, men and children, were dressed modestly and appeared respectful of their purposes in being there. What more would we expect, or ask, from people? I know that the priest is glad that they are there!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 11:44:31 AM by podkarpatska » Logged
Punch
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Body of Christ
Posts: 5,570



« Reply #132 on: December 12, 2011, 12:50:08 PM »

I would be if that is what he said, but since he did not I have nothing to be bothered about.  I believe that the correct wording was adequately discussed above. 


Quite frankly, I am far more bothered by the women who disrespect God by refusing to follow His Scriptural command to cover their heads in Church than I am with what else they or the men wear.

Are you bothered by the men who disrespect God by refusing to follow his Scriptural command to keep their hair cut short, particularly traditional clergy?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 01:14:51 PM by Punch » Logged

I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2 3  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.144 seconds with 69 queries.