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Author Topic: Ukraine provides the Vatican with a Christmas tree  (Read 1462 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: December 05, 2011, 10:26:44 AM »

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It is interesting to note, then, that this year marks the first time that a former Soviet country as well as a predominantly Orthodox one has donated a Christmas tree to the Vatican. This act of generosity by the people of Ukraine is surely a sign of the good relations that have been developing between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches during Pope Benedict XVI's pontificate. It is also an enormously significant act, especially seeing that one of the biggest stumbling blocks on the road to full unity between Eastern and Western Christianity is the tension that exists between Ukrainian Catholics - many of whom were forced to unite with the Orthodox under the Soviet regime, and who subsequently lost their church buildings - and those Ukrainians who belong to the Russian dominated Orthodox Churches.
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« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2011, 12:11:38 PM »

I read elsewhere that there will be Orthodox representation at the tree lighting ceremony. It will be interesting to see if this is UOC-KP or UOC-MP.

As one whose familial roots trace to the Slovak Tatras and the foothills of the Carpathians and whose religious heritage was shaped by the historical tensions within Zakarpatia, I have to admit that I find it intriguing, and I am somewhat moved,  by the fact that this prominent tree will ship to Rome from that region of Ukraine.
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« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2011, 12:34:15 PM »

I'm surprised this thread wasn't titled, "UKRAINIAN TRAITORS KILL TREE FOR POPE!"
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« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2011, 01:28:50 PM »

^Lost in the translation, I suppose...it probably depends on whether you were near Muchachevo or L'viv, or Kiev for that matter!   Cheesy
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« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2011, 01:59:23 PM »

According to RISU the tree and other trees are the gifts of the Ukrainian Catholic University in Lviv:
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As RISU reported, the fir tree for St. Peter’s Square was cut down November 18 in the Transcarpathian Oblast. It is 30 meters high, its weight is 4 tons and its trunk diameter is more than half a meter. It will be unveiled on December 16.

The ceremony of the opening of the Christmas Tree from Ukraine will be attended not only by the bishops of the Catholic Churches of Ukraine but also representatives of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Moscow Patriarchate. The agreement in this regard was reached during the meeting of Patriarch Sviatoslav of UGCC with the representative of Metropolitan Volodymyr (Sabodan), Archbishop Oleksandr (Drabynko).


http://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/culture/religious_holidays/45780/


I have not seen this confirmed on an Orthodox site about the MP bishops beung present.
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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2011, 02:10:36 PM »

This may all be wishful thinking on the part of the Ukrainian catholics just like "dual communion" as the EP.  Remember that: it was not true.
Haven't seen anything on MP sites that their bishops are going to Rome for the event of the Christmas tree.  Usually when Metr. Hilarion goes to Rome it is annouced as a major event.

This older article is from a Catholic news source again:

http://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/culture/religious_holidays/45740/

Quote
The head of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, Patriarch Sviatoslav Shevchuk, will take part in the ceremony of the opening of the Christmas Tree from Ukraine in the Vatican. The event will for the first time be attended not only by the bishops of the Catholic Churches of Ukraine of the Latin and Byzantine rites but also representatives of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, the Information Department of UGCC reported.

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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2011, 02:39:43 PM »

This may all be wishful thinking on the part of the Ukrainian catholics just like "dual communion" as the EP.  Remember that: it was not true.
Haven't seen anything on MP sites that their bishops are going to Rome for the event of the Christmas tree.  Usually when Metr. Hilarion goes to Rome it is annouced as a major event.

This older article is from a Catholic news source again:

http://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/culture/religious_holidays/45740/

Quote
The head of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, Patriarch Sviatoslav Shevchuk, will take part in the ceremony of the opening of the Christmas Tree from Ukraine in the Vatican. The event will for the first time be attended not only by the bishops of the Catholic Churches of Ukraine of the Latin and Byzantine rites but also representatives of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, the Information Department of UGCC reported.



I suspect it may be UOC-KP?
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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2011, 04:20:18 PM »

Haven't seen anything on MP sites that their bishops are going to Rome for the event of the Christmas tree.  Usually when Metr. Hilarion goes to Rome it is annouced as a major event.

The UOC has theirequivalent of Metropolitan Hilarion. I forgot is name :p
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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2011, 09:13:05 PM »

I'm surprised this thread wasn't titled, "UKRAINIAN TRAITORS KILL TREE FOR POPE!"


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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2011, 09:39:30 PM »

^ ROTFL!!!
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« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2011, 11:57:36 PM »


Yes, I thought it was rather funny myself.

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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2011, 04:32:10 PM »


Yes, I thought it was rather funny myself.



Frankly I have seen nothing about this on any Orthodox sites and with the expense of plane tickets I wouldn't expect to see any Ukrainian Orthodox bishop from any jurisdiction in Rome for this event.
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« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2011, 04:37:07 PM »

I'm surprised this thread wasn't titled, "UKRAINIAN TRAITORS KILL TREE FOR POPE!"

I'm sure if any outrage in Ukraine was expressed, it was probably over the cost of shipping the tree to Rome, rather than the actual implications of an inter-faith exchange.

"You want HOW MUCH to ship tree to Rome?! Is outrage!"
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« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2011, 05:07:00 PM »

I'm surprised this thread wasn't titled, "UKRAINIAN TRAITORS KILL TREE FOR POPE!"

The new avatar is of a superior arch!!....arch I said, A-R-C-H... Wink
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« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2011, 02:30:44 PM »

I'm surprised this thread wasn't titled, "UKRAINIAN TRAITORS KILL TREE FOR POPE!"

I'm sure if any outrage in Ukraine was expressed, it was probably over the cost of shipping the tree to Rome, rather than the actual implications of an inter-faith exchange.

"You want HOW MUCH to ship tree to Rome?! Is outrage!"
Outside of Galicia, the province in which the Eastern catholics live, I doubt if the average Ukrainians even know this is going on.
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« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2011, 02:38:18 PM »

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The ceremony of the opening of the Christmas Tree from Ukraine will be attended not only by the bishops of the Catholic Churches of Ukraine but also representatives of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Moscow Patriarchate. The agreement in this regard was reached during the meeting of Patriarch Sviatoslav of UGCC with the representative of Metropolitan Volodymyr (Sabodan), Archbishop Oleksandr (Drabynko).


http://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/culture/religious_holidays/45780/

Still haven't seen anything on the UOC-MP web site about this happening.

And it is the Catholic University of Ukraine that is behind this venture.
Quote
The Ukrainian Catholic University sent forty-three fir trees to the Vatican. They will be used to decorate St. Peter’s Square and the Apostolic Palace on Christmas. The trees were sent by UCU on November 30.

“In this way, the university contributes to the organization of Ukrainian Christmas in the Vatican. A part of Ukraine will remain in the Vatican even after Christmas as the young trees will be planted there and will grow in the Italian soil,” said Vice Rector of UCU on administration and development, Myroslav Senyk.

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« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2011, 02:45:04 PM »

The only reason Rome had to get a Christmas tree from Holy Mother Ukraine is because of the superior trees that grown in our beloved Carpathian Mountains.  Italy can't produce or grow such a quality tree so they had to turn to the superior tree from the superior country of Ukraine.  Everyone knows that, it is no secret.  If they used an Italian tree for the Christmas then it would only be 1.4 m tall and have wilting branches.
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« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2011, 02:47:54 PM »

I'm surprised this thread wasn't titled, "UKRAINIAN TRAITORS KILL TREE FOR POPE!"

The new avatar is of a superior arch!!....arch I said, A-R-C-H... Wink

Thank you, thank you.  It's a still from a short film I was in recently.  I played the part of a cantankerous, demanding and somewhat lecherous boss with a short fuse.  As such, I believed the ascot was mandatory.
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« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2011, 02:48:31 PM »

I'm surprised this thread wasn't titled, "UKRAINIAN TRAITORS KILL TREE FOR POPE!"

The new avatar is of a superior arch!!....arch I said, A-R-C-H... Wink

Thank you, thank you.  It's a still from a short film I was in recently.  I played the part of a cantankerous, demanding and somewhat lecherous boss with a short fuse.  As such, I believed the ascot was mandatory.

I thought you were that guy in Pere Ubu.  Wink
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« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2011, 04:14:06 PM »

The only reason Rome had to get a Christmas tree from Holy Mother Ukraine is because of the superior trees that grown in our beloved Carpathian Mountains.  Italy can't produce or grow such a quality tree so they had to turn to the superior tree from the superior country of Ukraine.  Everyone knows that, it is no secret.  If they used an Italian tree for the Christmas then it would only be 1.4 m tall and have wilting branches.

But you have yet to answer why the Ukrainian traitors would kill one of their majestic trees in order to give one to God-forsaken* Rome.










*The fact that they cannot grow tall, strong Christmas trees like Holy Ukrainian Christmas trees is proof of the fact that God has forsaken Italy.
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« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2011, 04:22:34 PM »

The tree will be set up today in Rome or maybe has already been set up.

http://www.romereports.com/palio/christmas-tree-arrives-at-the-vatican-and-will-be-lifted-on-monday-english-5557.html

"Christmas tree arrives at the Vatican and will be lifted on Monday"
2011-12-02 16:22:54

The tree traveled  with a truck driver named Antonio Dudi.
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« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2011, 05:47:36 PM »

The only reason Rome had to get a Christmas tree from Holy Mother Ukraine is because of the superior trees that grown in our beloved Carpathian Mountains.  Italy can't produce or grow such a quality tree so they had to turn to the superior tree from the superior country of Ukraine.  Everyone knows that, it is no secret.  If they used an Italian tree for the Christmas then it would only be 1.4 m tall and have wilting branches.

Please note the large tree is from Transcarpathia, Rusyn homeland.  The 43 smaller trees are from Lviv.  Ukraine has to rely on Holy Carpatho-Rus to provide a decent tree. laugh
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« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2011, 05:49:33 PM »

One shudders to think what is the official stance on artificial trees.  Shocked
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« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2011, 05:52:35 PM »

The Day reports the participation agreement was made between Archbishop Sviatoslav (UGCC) and Archbishop Oleksander (UOC-MP).
http://www.day.kiev.ua/220561
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« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2011, 05:53:47 PM »

God bless them, I wish them a Happy Christmas indeed.  angel
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« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2011, 06:13:10 PM »

The only reason Rome had to get a Christmas tree from Holy Mother Ukraine is because of the superior trees that grown in our beloved Carpathian Mountains.  Italy can't produce or grow such a quality tree so they had to turn to the superior tree from the superior country of Ukraine.  Everyone knows that, it is no secret.  If they used an Italian tree for the Christmas then it would only be 1.4 m tall and have wilting branches.

Please note the large tree is from Transcarpathia, Rusyn homeland.  The 43 smaller trees are from Lviv.  Ukraine has to rely on Holy Carpatho-Rus to provide a decent tree. laugh

Dear distant cousin D. Lance, could you please provide an ISA like map of where Holy Carpatho Rus is?
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« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2011, 06:30:59 PM »

^uh-oh.....here we go again.... Wink Wink  I can give you the link, as the map is copywrite 1995 by Dr. R. P. Magocsi. http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org/map.jpg

It figures!   :)They cut the tree in Transcarpathia and import singers from L'viv instead of Uzhorod and Mucachevo and take all of the credit! Same old story..... Wink Smiley
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« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2011, 06:57:52 PM »

Dear distant cousin D. Lance, could you please provide an ISA like map of where Holy Carpatho Rus is?

Alas I cannot, as it is largely in my mind.  Fly to Bardejov and walk East, if you hit Lviv you've gone to far. Grin
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« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2011, 08:59:13 AM »

Dear distant cousin D. Lance, could you please provide an ISA like map of where Holy Carpatho Rus is?

Alas I cannot, as it is largely in my mind.  Fly to Bardejov and walk East, if you hit Lviv you've gone to far. Grin

LOL!  Smiley
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« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2011, 10:16:40 AM »

^Lost in the translation, I suppose...it probably depends on whether you were near Muchachevo or L'viv, or Kiev for that matter!   Cheesy

I agree.  I would be more inclined to believe that the tree came from the UGCC.

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« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2011, 11:06:22 AM »

^Lost in the translation, I suppose...it probably depends on whether you were near Muchachevo or L'viv, or Kiev for that matter!   Cheesy

I agree.  I would be more inclined to believe that the tree came from the UGCC.


The tree did come from the Ukrainian Catholic Church.  Here is the info about the tree coming from the Ukrainian Catholic Church and the Catholic University of Lviv:

http://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/culture/religious_holidays/45780/

Still haven't seen anything on the UOC-MP web site about this happening.

And it is the Catholic University of Ukraine that is behind this venture.

Quote
The Ukrainian Catholic University sent forty-three fir trees to the Vatican. They will be used to decorate St. Peter’s Square and the Apostolic Palace on Christmas. The trees were sent by UCU on November 30.

“In this way, the university contributes to the organization of Ukrainian Christmas in the Vatican. A part of Ukraine will remain in the Vatican even after Christmas as the young trees will be planted there and will grow in the Italian soil,” said Vice Rector of UCU on administration and development, Myroslav Senyk.

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« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2011, 09:35:42 PM »

The UOC-MP was represented by Archbishop Philip of Poltava and Myrhorod.

He can be seen in this video.  He is fourth down: Archbishop Sviatoslav of Kyiv-Halych(UGCC), Archbishop Mieczyslaw of Lviv of the Latins, Bishop Milan of Mukachevo(Rusyn Greek Catholic), Archbishop Philip of Poltava and Myrhorod

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FZE5XvaqjI&feature=relmfu
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« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2011, 12:06:42 AM »

^Lost in the translation, I suppose...it probably depends on whether you were near Muchachevo or L'viv, or Kiev for that matter!   Cheesy

I agree.  I would be more inclined to believe that the tree came from the UGCC.


The tree did come from the Ukrainian Catholic Church.  Here is the info about the tree coming from the Ukrainian Catholic Church and the Catholic University of Lviv:

http://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/culture/religious_holidays/45780/

Still haven't seen anything on the UOC-MP web site about this happening.

And it is the Catholic University of Ukraine that is behind this venture.

Quote
The Ukrainian Catholic University sent forty-three fir trees to the Vatican. They will be used to decorate St. Peter’s Square and the Apostolic Palace on Christmas. The trees were sent by UCU on November 30.

“In this way, the university contributes to the organization of Ukrainian Christmas in the Vatican. A part of Ukraine will remain in the Vatican even after Christmas as the young trees will be planted there and will grow in the Italian soil,” said Vice Rector of UCU on administration and development, Myroslav Senyk.
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« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2011, 08:21:07 AM »

Ok, as I understand it, the Rusyns needed money, so they sold a tree to the Ukrainians so the Ukrainians could look good in Rome - meanwhile, the MP offered to help front the cost of petrol for transport, on condition that they get an ecumenical photo-op out of the deal. What I want to know is, how'd the Latin manage to get into the picture?

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« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2011, 09:09:00 AM »

Ok, as I understand it, the Rusyns needed money, so they sold a tree to the Ukrainians so the Ukrainians could look good in Rome - meanwhile, the MP offered to help front the cost of petrol for transport, on condition that they get an ecumenical photo-op out of the deal. What I want to know is, how'd the Latin manage to get into the picture?

Many years,

Neil

Or perhaps, they thought it would be a nice gesture in honor of the Birth of our Saviour coming from a land which was at the forefront of the struggle between east and west for so many centuries?  nah....probably not....Too bad though!
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