Author Topic: Another one RISU's myth  (Read 837 times)

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Offline mike

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Another one RISU's myth
« on: January 06, 2012, 08:51:13 AM »
The head of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Kyivan Patriarchate (UOC-KP) said in an interview to RISU that in 2008, Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople proposed the UOC-KP to join it and, later, receive an autonomy. The conditions of Constantinople, however, were unacceptable for the clergy of the UOC-KP and the union was not concluded...

Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: Another one RISU's myth
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2012, 09:57:51 AM »
It is not RISU's myth but Patriarch Filaret's personal interpretation and lie: that is what he said in the interview.  RISU just published it.

The reality is that in 2008 when the EP was visiting Kyiv meetings were held and the EP was willing to take the UOC-KP group under his jurisdiction.  The conditions included:
1) Patriarch Filaret retire.
Many of the bishops and people were willing to accept this but Patriarch Filaret was not.  This was all widely reported in the press at the time.
The plan was for Patriarch Filaret to step down and then an new metropolitan would be elected (not a patriarch).

Thus, because of the arrogance of one man the problem of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church was not solved.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 02:06:03 PM by serb1389 »

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Another one RISU's myth
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2012, 12:20:31 PM »

Michal, why do you site this as a "myth"?

Irene is correct in her statement that one condition to canonicity was that P. Filaret step down.

Imagine, the ego of the man.  How "Orthodox" is he (besides being anathemized) that for his own personal pride, millions of souls suffer?

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline mike

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Re: Another one RISU's myth
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2012, 12:30:53 PM »
It's the following time RISU is spreading shocking news about Patr. Bartholomew alleged intent to interfere into Ukrainian affairs. Unfortunately the first time, when he was told to be a supporter of 'dual unity' for Ukrainian Catholics, was denied by him and this time RISU again has no proofs from Phanar sources.

Offline pious1

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Re: Another one RISU's myth
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2012, 12:32:24 PM »
I believe Patriarch Filaret would have stepped down if they were to grant the UOCKP their own Patriarchate and not be under the EP with just a metropolitan. How is that any different the the UOC-MP with Metropalitan Volodymyr answering to Patriarch Kyrill and Patriarch Kyrill the head of the UOC-MP and the UOC-MP just a part of the Russian Orthodox church, not its own independent Patriachate?

To refer to hierarchs without their proper titles is very disrespectful and against forum rules. Thus, your post has been modified reflect his proper title. -Liza
 
You have been warned before to use proper titles when referring to Orthodox clergy. For your repeated failure to follow this rule, you are now on Warned status for the next three weeks. If you believe this action wrong, feel free to appeal it via private message to Veniamin.

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« Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 11:19:26 PM by LizaSymonenko »

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Another one RISU's myth
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2012, 01:17:04 PM »
It is not RISU's myth but Patriarch Filaret's personal interpretation and lie: that is what he said in the interview.  RISU just published it.

The reality is that in 2008 when the EP was visiting Kyiv meetings were held and the EP was willing to take the UOC-KP group under his jurisdiction.  The conditions included:
1) Patriarch Filaret retire.
Many of the bishops and people were willing to accept this but Patriarch Filaret was not.  This was all widely reported in the press at the time.
The plan was for Filaret to step down and then an new metropolitan would be elected (not a patriarch).

Thus, because of the arrogance of one man the problem of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church was not solved.
That wouldn't have solved the UOC problem but inflamed it.  The arrogance of  Patriarch Filaret to refuse to resign as he had been defrocked, and the arrogance of the Phanar (demonstrated repeatedly in Estonia, etc) to think that it could take Ukraine.
You have been warned for 50 days, for improper use of titles for clergy.  I'm not even going to talk about just how much you should know better.  

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« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 02:03:56 PM by serb1389 »
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Another one RISU's myth
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2012, 01:21:13 PM »
I believe Filaret would have stepped down if they were to grant the UOCKP their own Patriarchate and not be under the EP with just a metropolitan. How is that any different the the UOC-MP with Metropalitan Volodymyr answering to Kyrill and Kyrill the head of the UOC-MP and the UOC-MP just a part of the Russian Orthodox church, not its own independent Patriachate?
Met. Volodymyr is canonical, and the UOCKP (minus the P I should suppose) under the Phanar would not be.

The Phanar can't grant the UOCKP, so-called, autocephaly.  It did that in Poland in the '20's, and the Patriarchate of Moscow is in far better shape now to prevent such interference (as it was in the '50's, when Poland received its canonical autocephaly).

When Met. Volodymyr reposes, the offer should be made to receive the UOCKP so called without Patriarch Filaret, with full autonomy if not autocephaly.  If Patriarch Filaret dies first, Met. Volodymyr and his Holy Synod should be made autonomous immediately, with full power to receive the UOCKP so called.

In either case, Ukraine should end up autocephalous, and elevated to a Patriarchate.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 02:04:28 PM by serb1389 »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Another one RISU's myth
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2012, 03:45:29 PM »
Time out on this one! It's Christmas.....

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Another one RISU's myth
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2012, 03:53:14 PM »
Time out on this one! It's Christmas.....
....LOL...Theophany....but that's another argument.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Another one RISU's myth
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2012, 02:37:27 AM »
It is not RISU's myth but Patriarch Filaret's personal interpretation and lie: that is what he said in the interview.  RISU just published it.

The reality is that in 2008 when the EP was visiting Kyiv meetings were held and the EP was willing to take the UOC-KP group under his jurisdiction.  The conditions included:
1) Patriarch Filaret retire.
Many of the bishops and people were willing to accept this but Patriarch Filaret was not.  This was all widely reported in the press at the time.
The plan was for Filaret to step down and then an new metropolitan would be elected (not a patriarch).

Thus, because of the arrogance of one man the problem of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church was not solved.

We can be happy that one man's arrogance prevented something which would have led to a nuclear winter within the Orthodox Church as Moscow and Constantinople laid the Church waste.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 02:38:32 AM by Irish Hermit »

Offline serb1389

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Re: Another one RISU's myth
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2012, 04:39:20 PM »
Time out on this one! It's Christmas.....
....LOL...Theophany....but that's another argument.

yet such a poignant one!  especially since you brought it up.  who ever smelt it dealt it. 
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Another one RISU's myth
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2012, 04:48:41 PM »
It is not RISU's myth but Patriarch Filaret's personal interpretation and lie: that is what he said in the interview.  RISU just published it.

The reality is that in 2008 when the EP was visiting Kyiv meetings were held and the EP was willing to take the UOC-KP group under his jurisdiction.  The conditions included:
1) Patriarch Filaret retire.
Many of the bishops and people were willing to accept this but Patriarch Filaret was not.  This was all widely reported in the press at the time.
The plan was for Filaret to step down and then an new metropolitan would be elected (not a patriarch).

Thus, because of the arrogance of one man the problem of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church was not solved.

We can be happy that one man's arrogance prevented something which would have led to a nuclear winter within the Orthodox Church as Moscow and Constantinople laid the Church waste.

....so, Ukrainian Orthodoxy is the "sacrificial lamb"?  :(


Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline Father H

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Re: Another one RISU's myth
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2012, 06:43:13 PM »
It is not RISU's myth but Patriarch Filaret's personal interpretation and lie: that is what he said in the interview.  RISU just published it.

The reality is that in 2008 when the EP was visiting Kyiv meetings were held and the EP was willing to take the UOC-KP group under his jurisdiction.  The conditions included:
1) Patriarch Filaret retire.
Many of the bishops and people were willing to accept this but Patriarch Filaret was not.  This was all widely reported in the press at the time.
The plan was for Filaret to step down and then an new metropolitan would be elected (not a patriarch).

Thus, because of the arrogance of one man the problem of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church was not solved.

We can be happy that one man's arrogance prevented something which would have led to a nuclear winter within the Orthodox Church as Moscow and Constantinople laid the Church waste.

....so, Ukrainian Orthodoxy is the "sacrificial lamb"?  :(


Christ is born!  Hi Liza.  A lamb has to be whole before it can be sacrificed.  Is not Ukrainian Orthodoxy that is at issue, but a nation divided.  We must continue to pray...harder.     

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Another one RISU's myth
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2012, 08:43:33 AM »
It is not RISU's myth but Patriarch Filaret's personal interpretation and lie: that is what he said in the interview.  RISU just published it.

The reality is that in 2008 when the EP was visiting Kyiv meetings were held and the EP was willing to take the UOC-KP group under his jurisdiction.  The conditions included:
1) Patriarch Filaret retire.
Many of the bishops and people were willing to accept this but Patriarch Filaret was not.  This was all widely reported in the press at the time.
The plan was for Filaret to step down and then an new metropolitan would be elected (not a patriarch).

Thus, because of the arrogance of one man the problem of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church was not solved.

We can be happy that one man's arrogance prevented something which would have led to a nuclear winter within the Orthodox Church as Moscow and Constantinople laid the Church waste.

....so, Ukrainian Orthodoxy is the "sacrificial lamb"?  :(




Whichever way I answer that I may be the sacrificial lamb.   :laugh: ;D

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Another one RISU's myth
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2012, 08:49:04 AM »

Christ is born!  Hi Liza.  A lamb has to be whole before it can be sacrificed.  Is not Ukrainian Orthodoxy that is at issue, but a nation divided.  We must continue to pray...harder.     

Glorify Him!  I will, Father!  God has worked miracles in Ukraine countless times.  I believe He will again (countless more times)!  Praying.


Whichever way I answer that I may be the sacrificial lamb.   :laugh: ;D

:)  Sorry.


Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria