Chopping up the Bodies of Saints

[Volnutt]

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/hopko/st._andrew_the_apostle

As Fr. Hopko mentions, they did this to St. Andrew the Apostle after he died with an arm going to church of Constantinople and some body parts going to Rome, etc. I've also read about this happening to other saints as opposed to just waiting for the body to fall apart naturally or something.

I'm not opposed to relics but chopping up a saint's body seems really grisly and counter to the Church's policy of respecting the human body.

[J.M.C]

St Andrew's relics were transferred to Constantinople in the mid-4th century; part of his relics, including his head, were given by the Despot Thomas Palaegeous to the Pope of Rome in the 15th century in an attempt to try and unite the two churches. I think "chopping up" might be the wrong word to use over one thousand years after the repose of the Saint. I'm not aware of other Saints being chopped up - I presume you mean whilst they still have flesh and/or skin on their bones - what examples did you have in mind?

[Volnutt]

St. David the Dendrite

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/06/righteous-david-dendrite-of.html

About 150 years after the Saint's death, in 685-690, the abbot of the monastery Demetrios opened his tomb in order to receive a portion of his relics. In doing so however, the plaque on the tomb fell and broke into many pieces. This was seen by the abbot as a sign that it was not the wishes of Saint David for his relics to be portioned.

St. Polycarp

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/martyrdompolycarp-roberts.html

But when the adversary of the race of the righteous, the envious, malicious, and wicked one, perceived the impressive nature of his martyrdom, and [considered] the blameless life he had led from the beginning, and how he was now crowned with the wreath of immortality, having beyond dispute received his reward, he did his utmost that not the least memorial of him should be taken away by us, although many desired to do this, and to become possessors of his holy flesh.

[J.M.C]

None of the examples so far present the breaking up of holy relics in a good light. On part of St Thomas' relics going to Constantinople, I think this is a misunderstanding: I can see only the entire relics being transferred, with "parts" being given to Rome much later, with perhaps not the best of intentions.

[Volnutt]

I suppose I can agree in the cases of Sts. Andrew and David, but the Martyrdom of Polycarp does seem to me to portray this desire in a positive light.

[Michał Kalina]

Many relics are cut. How would one make an antimins?

[FormerReformer]

I suppose I can agree in the cases of Sts. Andrew and David, but the Martyrdom of Polycarp does seem to me to portray this desire in a positive light.

Volnutt, the body of St Polycarp had been burned by the Romans, reduced to only bones to begin with. There was no grisly sawing through flesh involved with his relics.

[Volnutt]

Many relics are cut. How would one make an antimins?

Well, that's just practicality, I guess. I don't mind that.

[Volnutt]

I suppose I can agree in the cases of Sts. Andrew and David, but the Martyrdom of Polycarp does seem to me to portray this desire in a positive light.

Volnutt, the body of St Polycarp had been burned by the Romans, reduced to only bones to begin with. There was no grisly sawing through flesh involved with his relics.

I know, but the account indicates everyone would have wanted to cut his body up.

[witega]

I suppose I can agree in the cases of Sts. Andrew and David, but the Martyrdom of Polycarp does seem to me to portray this desire in a positive light.

Volnutt, the body of St Polycarp had been burned by the Romans, reduced to only bones to begin with. There was no grisly sawing through flesh involved with his relics.

I know, but the account indicates everyone would have wanted to cut his body up.

I think you are reading more into the translation choice of words than is there. Here's an alternate translation:
"saw to it that not even his poor body should be taken away by, even though many desired to do this and to touch his holy flesh." (translated by J.B. Lightfoot and J.R. Harmer)

This translation has a footnote that the 'the verb is koinonesai, usually translated "to have fellowship with."' The writer could merely be indicating that 'we' (the local Christians) wanted to take away the body and keep it (whole) for veneration by the faithful.

[Volnutt]

I suppose I can agree in the cases of Sts. Andrew and David, but the Martyrdom of Polycarp does seem to me to portray this desire in a positive light.

Volnutt, the body of St Polycarp had been burned by the Romans, reduced to only bones to begin with. There was no grisly sawing through flesh involved with his relics.

I know, but the account indicates everyone would have wanted to cut his body up.

I think you are reading more into the translation choice of words than is there. Here's an alternate translation:
"saw to it that not even his poor body should be taken away by, even though many desired to do this and to touch his holy flesh." (translated by J.B. Lightfoot and J.R. Harmer)

This translation has a footnote that the 'the verb is koinonesai, usually translated "to have fellowship with."' The writer could merely be indicating that 'we' (the local Christians) wanted to take away the body and keep it (whole) for veneration by the faithful.

Thanks. I was unaware of that.

[yeshuaisiam]

Many relics are cut. How would one make an antimins?

Also the altar/church is consecrated with the relic embedded with wax into the altar table.   Usually just a sliver or shaving.

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