OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 01, 2014, 08:37:39 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Original Source of St. Augustine's Prayer to the Blessed Virgin?  (Read 4125 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
ignatios
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 112



« on: December 04, 2011, 12:50:47 AM »

Does anyone know the actual, original source/work for St. Augustine's prayer to the Blessed Virgin reproduced below?

O blessed Virgin Mary, who can worthily repay thee thy just dues of praise and thanksgiving, thou who by the wondrous assent of thy will didst rescue a fallen world? What songs of praise can our weak human nature recite in thy honor, since it is by thy intervention alone that it has found the way to restoration. Accept, then, such poor thanks as we have here to offer, though they be unequal to thy merits; and receiving our vows, obtain by thy prayers the remission of our offenses. Carry thou our prayers within the sanctuary of the heavenly audience, and bring forth from it the antidote of our reconciliation. May the sins we bring before Almighty God through thee, become pardonable through thee; may what we ask for with sure confidence, through thee be granted. Take our offering, grant us our requests, obtain pardon for what we fear, for thou art the sole hope of sinners. Through thee we hope for the remission of our sins, and in thee, O blessed Lady, is our hope of reward. Holy Mary, succour the miserable, help the fainthearted, comfort the sorrowful, pray for thy people, plead for the clergy, intercede for all women consecrated to God; may all who keep thy holy commemoration feel now thy help and protection. Be thou ever ready to assist us when we pray, and bring back to us the answers to our prayers. Make it thy continual care to pray for the people of God, thou who, blessed by God, didst merit to bear the Redeemer of the world, who liveth and reigneth, world without end. Amen.


Thanks! I've asked numerous Catholic posters of said prayer, only to receive no reply via email. I was hoping that someone could clear it up for me.
Logged
Father Peter
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: British Orthodox Church within the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate
Posts: 2,630



WWW
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2011, 05:09:42 AM »

It's here, and it is by medieaval author...

Written by Bishop Fulbert of Chartres (ca 951-ca 1029), it appears in his Sermo IX, De Annuntiatione Dominica. The prayer is sometimes attributed to St. Augustine, Book 10, Sermon 18, de Sanctis, since Bishop Fulbert's sermon appeared in the collected works of St. Augustine at one time. However, it is now known that the sermon is not Augustine's, but Bishop Fulbert's.

http://www.preces-latinae.org/thesaurus/BVM/OBeataVM.html
Logged

Lord have mercy upon me a sinner
http://www.orthodoxmedway.org

My blog - http://anorthodoxpriest.blogspot.co.uk

The poster formerly known as peterfarrington
ignatios
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 112



« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2011, 08:15:26 PM »

Thanks. I knew it sounded too late to be St. Augustine.
Logged
Kaste
Site Supporter
Sr. Member
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: member of the Invisible Church
Posts: 158


« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2012, 05:54:03 PM »

now this is interesting. 

But not surprising. 

Catholics were told this was from Augustine huh...until when? 

What do Orthodox here think of the prayer?

K
Logged
Father Peter
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: British Orthodox Church within the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate
Posts: 2,630



WWW
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2012, 06:21:59 PM »

Sorry? Why is it interesting or surprising?

Would you like a list of all the Eastern texts that have been transmitted under the wrong person's name?
Logged

Lord have mercy upon me a sinner
http://www.orthodoxmedway.org

My blog - http://anorthodoxpriest.blogspot.co.uk

The poster formerly known as peterfarrington
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Faith: Agnostic
Posts: 29,578



« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2012, 06:24:23 PM »

What do Orthodox here think of the prayer?

Seems fine to me  Cool
Logged

Problem: John finds a spider under his bed. John eats the spider. John gets sick to his stomach.

Question: Why did John get sick?
ignatios
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 112



« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2012, 08:18:42 PM »

It's a great prayer, and it's before the schism, which is pretty cool.
Logged
Benjamin the Red
Recovering Calvinist
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America, Diocese of Dallas and the South ||| American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 1,601


Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.


« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2012, 08:57:03 PM »

It's a very nice prayer written by an Orthodox bishop. Quite western sounding...I like it. Grin
Logged

"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
Kaste
Site Supporter
Sr. Member
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: member of the Invisible Church
Posts: 158


« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2012, 07:18:28 PM »

Quote
Would you like a list of all the Eastern texts that have been transmitted under the wrong person's name?

Just 3 will do (that are said to be from very prominent early church fathers (on the order of Augustine) )

Seems Catholics have a lot of this going on.  But let's see about the Orthodox~

K
Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Faith: Agnostic
Posts: 29,578



« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2012, 07:21:24 PM »

Quote
Would you like a list of all the Eastern texts that have been transmitted under the wrong person's name?

Just 3 will do (that are said to be from very prominent early church fathers (on the order of Augustine) )

Seems Catholics have a lot of this going on.  But let's see about the Orthodox~

K

But no one is on the order of St. Augustine, in either Church (except maybe St. Thomas Aquinas for some). Wink But for an eastern example, the texts attributed to Dionysius the Areopagite come to mind, the authorship of which was disputed even in the ancient Church.
Logged

Problem: John finds a spider under his bed. John eats the spider. John gets sick to his stomach.

Question: Why did John get sick?
witega
Is it enough now, to tell you you matter?
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Diocese of the South
Posts: 1,614


« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2012, 01:34:52 AM »

Quote
Would you like a list of all the Eastern texts that have been transmitted under the wrong person's name?

Just 3 will do (that are said to be from very prominent early church fathers (on the order of Augustine) )

Seems Catholics have a lot of this going on.  But let's see about the Orthodox~

K

Actually, from what Fr. Peter quoted it sounds like this was a simple error not 'Catholics being told'. Two things to recall about medieval books:
a) Paper was rare and expensive. If you had a book that you filled with St. Augustine's sermons, then found at the end that you had a couple of blank pages, you didn't waste that valuable real estate--you found something else worth preserving, like some other sermons that might or might not be related to St. Augustine's and you copied them in as well.
b) All books were hand-copied. Overlooking one line like the line that said 'by Bishop Fulbert' in recopying was not unusual. Or could have even been done deliberately without any intention of actually obscuring authorship ('If I squeeze, I've just got room to this sermon on to this extra page--oops no room to add the byline, oh well ...).

This kind of misattribution (which is different from the deliberate forgery/pseudopigrapha represented by the Donations of Constantine or Pseudo-Dionysius) is not at all unusual in medieval texts and its not until the advent of modern printing and communications that scholars have had access to multiple copies of various works to disentangle man of them.
Logged

Ariel Starling - New album

For it were better to suffer everything, rather than divide the Church of God. Even martyrdom for the sake of preventing division would not be less glorious than for refusing to worship idols. - St. Dionysius the Great
Tags: St. Augustine  Prayer to Theotokos  Prayer to Mary  Prayer to Blessed Virgin 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.056 seconds with 37 queries.