Topic: Joel's Army cult

[Ninjaly Awesome]

One thing I've noticed that's growing among Pentecostals is the Joel's Army cult. Basically, they believe Joel 2 refers to an end time Christian army that they say is currently on the rise and will take over the world in order to prepare for the return of Jesus. I find it disturbing that a few years ago I went to Thailand as a Protestant and found these people down there among the Thai Christians. They believe that one day they'll be invincible to all harm and will take over the entire world and make the Christians who don't agree with them bow to their will.

We know that their prophecies and interpretations of scripture are wrong. What I think might happen is that the leaders of the movement might call their "soldiers" to action and a lot of bloodshed would happen world wide. Their movement would be shut down and suppressed since they're not actual trained soldiers, but not before plenty of killings would happen. I also think if it happened it could cause a backlash of persecution against Christians worldwide.

And of course there are ecstatic manifestations among them. They regularly practice "slain in the Spirit", jerking around, visions, etc. Here's a good link for more info: http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2008/fall/arming-for-armageddon

[Volnutt]

It's really on the rise  I thought it was a fringe thing people like Todd Bentley weren't really involved with. Ya learn something new everyday...

[biro]

After what happened to Todd Bentley before, I'm surprised he's back doing this. I used to listen to his podcasts, just because they were so... there isn't a word for it. 

People thinking they're invincible all too much reminds me of David Koresh and Jim Jones. Uh-oh.

[Shiny]

Maybe one nation under Ge'ez too.

[PeterTheAleut]

Maybe one nation under Ge'ez too.

What does that comment have to do with the subject of this discussion?

[Ninjaly Awesome]

After what happened to Todd Bentley before, I'm surprised he's back doing this. I used to listen to his podcasts, just because they were so... there isn't a word for it. 

People thinking they're invincible all too much reminds me of David Koresh and Jim Jones. Uh-oh.

Todd Bentley isn't as prominent anymore but yes he is still working and active. A new guy named Michael Krysty is starting to become more popular and I wonder if he'll turn out the way that Todd Bentley did.

[biro]

Lord have mercy.

It's one thing to have strong faith, but extremism always bothers me. 

[Shiny]

Maybe one nation under Ge'ez too.

What does that comment have to do with the subject of this discussion?

Just adding more absurdity to the OP; there really is no limit to how far Protestants are willing to go.

[Volnutt]

Maybe one nation under Ge'ez too.

What does that comment have to do with the subject of this discussion?

Just adding more absurdity to the OP; there really is no limit to how far Protestants are willing to go.

Let's not broad brush here. The vast majority of Protestants wouldn't be caught dead at one of these rallies.

[Shiny]

No broad brushing required. Protestants are free to abandon Protestant doctrines.

[Volnutt]

No broad brushing required. Protestants are free to abandon Protestant doctrines.

In theory, yes.

But there are a good many who would not in practice (whether from a high view of the Creed/Laurentian Canon or a conviction that things like the Trinity or Sola Fide are confirmed in a spiritual or conscience-based manner that trumps any apparently compelling exegetical reasoning. As Luther once asked, "Am I the only one in the world who is right?").

[Shiny]

What do you mean "in theory?"

Protestants, on the whole, have the same Bible but teach a different "truth" about it in each "church". So you have one shepard doesn't agree with the other. So yes Protestants have abadoned Protestant doctrines.

I find it hard to believe Luther asked that question considering "Religion my way" isn't Lutheran.

[Volnutt]

What do you mean "in theory?"

Protestants, on the whole, have the same Bible but teach a different "truth" about it in each "church". So you have one shepard doesn't agree with the other. So yes Protestants have abadoned Protestant doctrines.

Yes, in theory one's one opinion of Scripture can overturn any doctrine no matter how central (Gary DeMar's ongoing flirtation with the hyperpretist heresy is a prime example of such radical "nuda scriptura" in action. But on the ground, there are many Protestants who have a far more nuanced view of sola scriptura than that.

I find it hard to believe Luther asked that question considering "Religion my way" isn't Lutheran.

I'm pretty sure he did, so confident he was in his foundational reading of Romans and Galatians. The "Lutheranism" of Luther varies from issue to issue btw.

[Jason.Wike]

Ugh. Todd Bentley... They say he draws crowds of tens of thousands I've NEVER heard anyone around here mention his name, or mentions of his events so I have to wonder - being in the next town over - how 'big' he really is.

[wasamwillbe]

 I have so many great examples I can follow for spiritual guidance, encouragement, humility ,etc  through the Saints, I would not waste my time trying to find something partially truthful this guy might say.  If I have to be discerning he can teach me nothing, I must measure each thought he has as to whether it corresponds with my knowledge of truth, a sure recipe for disaster, sooner or later I will be deceived. 

With the Desert Father's I do not have to be discerning, we are unified with them in One Body, so if I disagree I must change, If I am confused, I have my Preist there to guide me.  Within the One Body I am fed the truth of His Love, outside of it I am one more sheep without a shepherd, and I am just begging to be taken by the wolves,{ and all too often those wolfish apetites that consume us, are our own. }

[wasamwillbe]

I have so many great examples I can follow for spiritual guidance, encouragement, humility ,etc  through the Saints, I would not waste my time trying to find something partially truthful this guy might say.  If I have to be discerning he can teach me nothing, I must measure each thought he has as to whether it corresponds with my knowledge of truth, a sure recipe for disaster, sooner or later I will be deceived. 

With the Desert Father's I do not have to be discerning, we are unified with them in One Body, so if I disagree I must change, If I am confused, I have my Preist there to guide me.  Within the One Body I am fed the truth of His Love, outside of it I am one more sheep without a shepherd, and I am just begging to be taken by the wolves,{ and all too often those wolfish apetites that consume us, are our own. }

Wrong thread sorry

[Ortho_cat]

sounds like modern crusaders...i've noticed that certain groups of evangelicals have grown more aggressive over the last couple years...could be a trend.

[Agabus]

I worry about these people as much as I worry about the Christian Reconstructionists who want to take South Carolina and make it an independent Christian nation... Not at all.

Joel's Army is also known as the New Apostolic Reformation also known as the clowns Rick Perry was mixed up with.

[biro]

I volunteered at a polling place years ago, and some of the Christian Nation folks made it out there as well. They were walking back and forth at the other end of the public office center parking lot, and they carried a flag half the size of a building. It's a white field, with a blue section in the top left corner, and a red cross in the middle of that. Looks somewhat like a Scottish flag, although I like the actual Scottish flag much better. They didn't do anything weird, but that was the hugest flag ever.

[Volnutt]

I volunteered at a polling place years ago, and some of the Christian Nation folks made it out there as well. They were walking back and forth at the other end of the public office center parking lot, and they carried a flag half the size of a building. It's a white field, with a blue section in the top left corner, and a red cross in the middle of that. Looks somewhat like a Scottish flag, although I like the actual Scottish flag much better. They didn't do anything weird, but that was the hugest flag ever.

That's the same flag as was touted as "the Christian flag" when I was growing up. US Pentecostals in general like it.

[Volnutt]

I worry about these people as much as I worry about the Christian Reconstructionists who want to take South Carolina and make it an independent Christian nation... Not at all.

Joel's Army is also known as the New Apostolic Reformation also known as the clowns Rick Perry was mixed up with.

I've also seen the term "Manifest Sons of God" touted. Also, they don't account for everyone in the "Latter Rain Movement" but they did grow out of it.

[Bryan Paul]

I volunteered at a polling place years ago, and some of the Christian Nation folks made it out there as well. They were walking back and forth at the other end of the public office center parking lot, and they carried a flag half the size of a building. It's a white field, with a blue section in the top left corner, and a red cross in the middle of that. Looks somewhat like a Scottish flag, although I like the actual Scottish flag much better. They didn't do anything weird, but that was the hugest flag ever.

That's the same flag as was touted as "the Christian flag" when I was growing up. US Pentecostals in general like it.

They have one in the conservative Congregational church I attended for 25 years, so it's a pretty main-stream thing (not just those wacky Pentecostals).
Here's the Wikipedia article on the Christian Flag, complete with "A version of the Christian Flag, specialized for the Eastern Orthodox Church":

 

[mike]

complete with "A version of the Christian Flag, specialized for the Eastern Orthodox Church":

 

That is what Orthodoxy needs. More Chernobyl hehns on banners.

[TheTrisagion]

LOL! That one, I haven't seen before.

[Volnutt]

I volunteered at a polling place years ago, and some of the Christian Nation folks made it out there as well. They were walking back and forth at the other end of the public office center parking lot, and they carried a flag half the size of a building. It's a white field, with a blue section in the top left corner, and a red cross in the middle of that. Looks somewhat like a Scottish flag, although I like the actual Scottish flag much better. They didn't do anything weird, but that was the hugest flag ever.

That's the same flag as was touted as "the Christian flag" when I was growing up. US Pentecostals in general like it.

They have one in the conservative Congregational church I attended for 25 years, so it's a pretty main-stream thing (not just those wacky Pentecostals).

I know it is.

[TheTrisagion]

I remember having to say the pledge to the Christian Flag and to the Bible in our small Christian school I attended as a child.

[Volnutt]

I remember having to say the pledge to the Christian Flag and to the Bible in our small Christian school I attended as a child.

Same here.

[Mor Ephrem]

I remember having to say the pledge to the Christian Flag and to the Bible in our small Christian school I attended as a child.

That explains a lot.

[Agabus]

I remember having to say the pledge to the Christian Flag and to the Bible in our small Christian school I attended as a child.

That explains a lot.

[hecma925]

I remember having to say the pledge to the Christian Flag and to the Bible in our small Christian school I attended as a child.

That explains a lot.

Well!  I guess you're not getting into heaven without the right citizenship!

[TheTrisagion]

I remember having to say the pledge to the Christian Flag and to the Bible in our small Christian school I attended as a child.

That explains a lot.

Oh, you have no idea.  It took a lot of years to unwind that crazy. 

I can't even find a good pic to post showing a young child holding the Bible up in a position reminiscent of a Nazi salute while the class would pledge their allegiance.

[Bryan Paul]

I remember having to say the pledge to the Christian Flag and to the Bible in our small Christian school I attended as a child.

Pretty sure we did that once or twice in Sunday School. It was well intentioned.

[DeniseDenise]

and i come from a religious tradition that doesn't even do the Pledge of Allegiance to the US flag.


based on the 'make no oaths' verses of the NT.


a church flag....never

[Volnutt]

I remember an old episode of 700 Club that touted some woman's redesign of the Christian flag. It was a flying eagle against a white backdrop carrying a big wooden cross with bloodstains on the four points. I wish I could find an image of it.

[genesisone]

Is this it? If so, it's wrong on so many levels.

[Volnutt]

Is this it? If so, it's wrong on so many levels.

The central figure is the same. I don't remember if any of the other matter is.

[sheep100]

Lord have mercy.

It's one thing to have strong faith, but extremism always bothers me. 

Could you please explain the difference between extremism and strong faith?

[Volnutt]

Lord have mercy.

It's one thing to have strong faith, but extremism always bothers me. 

Could you please explain the difference between extremism and strong faith?

Depends on what your strong faith is in, basically. Extremism is usually considered to be the point at which your views wind up impinging on the rights of others- either through your actions in the now or in some hoped for future, like a theocracy of one's own making as with Joel's Army. The easiest example would be personal martyrdom vs. flying planes into buildings.

Of course, there's some grey here. Is a Jehovah's Witness who chooses to die rather than accept a blood transfusion an extremist just because her faith is in something that most of us feel to be sadly unnecessary? Maybe, maybe not.

A Jehovah's Witness who let's her child die rather than authorize a blood transfusion for him is much more clearly an extremist.