Author Topic: I think my mother will go to heavnen.  (Read 553 times)

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Offline wainscottbl

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I think my mother will go to heavnen.
« on: January 19, 2016, 03:23:36 AM »
1. She is Mormon.

2. She, whatever the faults of Mormonism, tries to fulfill her Mormon duties, going to the temple every month, "visiting teaching" every month, when so many Mormons neglect this.

3. Does family research every month as her Church suggests, or short of commands.

4. She was a heathen before she converted. She did not drink heavily or all of that, be she was not pious. But now she is as per the reasons above.

5. I believe God shall judge her for her holiness and piousness as per as she understands it, not as it is subjectively true.

6. God have mercy on her faults. She does not drink. I do, and am, but I am sober in commending her. Sober, however, I have been thinking of commending her when I was sober, because I am stupid, a fool, and you have been right if you have hated me, or censured me, whether harshly or gently.

7. Lord have mercy on us all.

8. Pray for me

9. God have mercy one me. Nine is a square of none, and this seems a sign to me. God bless me, therefore, and you are. Surely God speaks through that square via His trinity. God bless. Forgive my sins. But I have long wanted to express this this to you and am crying. Amen. 
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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: I think my mother will go to heavnen.
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2016, 04:54:51 AM »
1. She is Mormon.

2. She, whatever the faults of Mormonism, tries to fulfill her Mormon duties, going to the temple every month, "visiting teaching" every month, when so many Mormons neglect this.

3. Does family research every month as her Church suggests, or short of commands.

4. She was a heathen before she converted. She did not drink heavily or all of that, be she was not pious. But now she is as per the reasons above.

5. I believe God shall judge her for her holiness and piousness as per as she understands it, not as it is subjectively true.

6. God have mercy on her faults. She does not drink. I do, and am, but I am sober in commending her. Sober, however, I have been thinking of commending her when I was sober, because I am stupid, a fool, and you have been right if you have hated me, or censured me, whether harshly or gently.

7. Lord have mercy on us all.

8. Pray for me

9. God have mercy one me. Nine is a square of none, and this seems a sign to me. God bless me, therefore, and you are. Surely God speaks through that square via His trinity. God bless. Forgive my sins. But I have long wanted to express this this to you and am crying. Amen.

I think she will go to heaven too. Somehow I think it's a sin to think that anyone will go to hell. But that's just where I'm at right now. Hell was created for the devil and his demons, not for us. If perhaps some of us suffer hell, that is God's judgment not ours. Let us believe and hope the best for all souls. God's mercy endures forever. Your mother, as unorthodox as her doctrines may be, seems to be much more righteous in her life than I am with all of my "Orthodoxy." So don't worry about such things. Just love your mother and be thankful for the light that shines in and through her life.

Just my two cents on it.


Selam
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 04:55:48 AM by Gebre Menfes Kidus »
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Re: I think my mother will go to heavnen.
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2016, 04:58:56 AM »
Nine is a square of none, and this seems a sign to me. God bless me, therefore, and you are. Surely God speaks through that square via His trinity.

This part confuses me.
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Re: I think my mother will go to heavnen.
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2016, 02:06:47 PM »
Nine is a square of none, and this seems a sign to me. God bless me, therefore, and you are. Surely God speaks through that square via His trinity.

This part confuses me.

Not just you.

Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: I think my mother will go to heavnen.
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2016, 02:07:42 PM »
Let us believe and hope the best for all souls. God's mercy endures forever.

The best and only answer any of us have regarding our loved ones, and ourselves.
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Re: I think my mother will go to heavnen.
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2016, 03:25:46 PM »
Quote
1. She is Mormon.

2. She, whatever the faults of Mormonism, tries to fulfill her Mormon duties, going to the temple every month, "visiting teaching" every month, when so many Mormons neglect this.

3. Does family research every month as her Church suggests, or short of commands.

4. She was a heathen before she converted. She did not drink heavily or all of that, be she was not pious. But now she is as per the reasons above.

5. I believe God shall judge her for her holiness and piousness as per as she understands it, not as it is subjectively true.

6. God have mercy on her faults. She does not drink. I do, and am, but I am sober in commending her. Sober, however, I have been thinking of commending her when I was sober, because I am stupid, a fool, and you have been right if you have hated me, or censured me, whether harshly or gently.

7. Lord have mercy on us all.

8. Pray for me

9. God have mercy one me. Nine is a square of none, and this seems a sign to me. God bless me, therefore, and you are. Surely God speaks through that square via His trinity. God bless. Forgive my sins. But I have long wanted to express this this to you and am crying. Amen.
I wont judge if she will or not, but all 9 of your points is Pietism at its core. Its kind of like trying to cross a lake in a leaky boat. You might make it across, but I wouldnt rely on it.

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Offline nothing

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Re: I think my mother will go to heavnen.
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2016, 03:32:10 PM »
Saw your avatar and custom title below it, and I'm dead from laughing.
“Their throat is an open grave;
    they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”

Romans 3:13

Offline nothing

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Re: I think my mother will go to heavnen.
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2016, 03:32:38 PM »
Nine is a square of none, and this seems a sign to me. God bless me, therefore, and you are. Surely God speaks through that square via His trinity.

This part confuses me.
He's a self described aspy.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 03:33:10 PM by nothing »
“Their throat is an open grave;
    they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”

Romans 3:13

Offline David Young

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Re: I think my mother will go to heavnen.
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2016, 04:01:57 PM »
What bothers me is this. Do we not believe that a person is saved or lost according to his response to Jesus Christ? "Not of works, lest any man should boast" - though real faith is a faith that works by love, and we recognise it by its fruit. Before each of the Creeds was written in the ancient church, it seems to me (who am not sufficiently deeply familiar with the patristic period) that a lot of people were accepted as Christians before each Creed was composed, and were repudiated as heretics afterwards. Now indubitably the Mormons have added a lot of falsehoods to the Faith - just as (as we Baptists say) you Orthodox and the Roman Catholics have. (I know, I know... you say we have lost them. Never mind that for the moment: see many other threads.) But thinking of the Creeds, and thinking of falsehoods added to the Faith, how much must a person (a) understand and (b) not add, before his response to Jesus Christ becomes not a response to the real Son of God, but rather the invention of a new person or deity who in reality does not exist? I am putting questions, not answers. I once heard a German Methodist, in the strongly Pietist-influenced region of Swabia, say, "Die Mormonen sind gläubig" (Mormons are believers). That was in 1965. I have never come to a final assessment of that statement. But I do believe it depends not on our understanding, but on our response to Christ. It is written in Romans that "if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Did your mother believe that Jesus is the risen Lord? The Day will reveal it.
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Offline wainscottbl

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Re: I think my mother will go to heavnen.
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2016, 09:33:53 PM »
Nine is a square of none, and this seems a sign to me. God bless me, therefore, and you are. Surely God speaks through that square via His trinity.

This part confuses me.

Square of three! Or one. One if I say it is one. No, I do that sort of stupid stuff all the time when typing. I wish we could edit posts from a long time ago. But confusion is good sometimes. I'd be concerned if you could neither read nor do simple math.

1. She is Mormon.

2. She, whatever the faults of Mormonism, tries to fulfill her Mormon duties, going to the temple every month, "visiting teaching" every month, when so many Mormons neglect this.

3. Does family research every month as her Church suggests, or short of commands.

4. She was a heathen before she converted. She did not drink heavily or all of that, be she was not pious. But now she is as per the reasons above.

5. I believe God shall judge her for her holiness and piousness as per as she understands it, not as it is subjectively true.

6. God have mercy on her faults. She does not drink. I do, and am, but I am sober in commending her. Sober, however, I have been thinking of commending her when I was sober, because I am stupid, a fool, and you have been right if you have hated me, or censured me, whether harshly or gently.

7. Lord have mercy on us all.

8. Pray for me

9. God have mercy one me. Nine is a square of none, and this seems a sign to me. God bless me, therefore, and you are. Surely God speaks through that square via His trinity. God bless. Forgive my sins. But I have long wanted to express this this to you and am crying. Amen.

I think she will go to heaven too. Somehow I think it's a sin to think that anyone will go to hell. But that's just where I'm at right now. Hell was created for the devil and his demons, not for us. If perhaps some of us suffer hell, that is God's judgment not ours. Let us believe and hope the best for all souls. God's mercy endures forever. Your mother, as unorthodox as her doctrines may be, seems to be much more righteous in her life than I am with all of my "Orthodoxy." So don't worry about such things. Just love your mother and be thankful for the light that shines in and through her life.

Just my two cents on it.


Selam

Yes, it is a sin to believe someone will go to hell, too, I think. We can say the sin damns, but to say Hitler will go to hell (if he were alive) or some other clearly evil person, is a sin. But we should fear hell, and pray for others, too, though I have been told this: Pray the Jesus Prayer for others, but do not include the latter part. "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner." Pray that, but not, "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on them a sinner." Leave the sinner part on. The reason we know we should pray for others to be saved from hell is we pray for the dead. We don't just to that to feel good. Even Catholics believe this: one does not know the mystery of death, so we do not know WHEN the person is judged--that is the point of the funeral mass, the Purgatory belief included.

I do not like praying for other "sinners". Orthodoxy has made me feel that dangerous. Praying for the dead is different though. We know they are dead, and they are going one way or the other--our very prayers may be what saves them, or moves God to, or them to, or however it works. Our prayers do something. It is enough to pray for others in general I think. I suppose if someone we know is doing something very bad, we should pray for them. We should just be careful in praying for "their" sinfulness. I really have no right to pray for other sinners. In fact, I think that maybe my sinner's prayer may be worth more perhaps because of the mercy of God, who makes something wicked and worthless good. I think a thief's prayer may be wroth than a priest's sometimes.
The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.
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Offline mike

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Re: I think my mother will go to heavnen.
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2016, 03:56:24 AM »
Nine is a square of none, and this seems a sign to me. God bless me, therefore, and you are. Surely God speaks through that square via His trinity.

This part confuses me.

Square of three! Or one. One if I say it is one. No, I do that sort of stupid stuff all the time when typing. I wish we could edit posts from a long time ago. But confusion is good sometimes. I'd be concerned if you could neither read nor do simple math.

That explained nothing, really.


Yes, it is a sin to believe someone will go to hell, too, I think. We can say the sin damns, but to say Hitler will go to hell (if he were alive) or some other clearly evil person, is a sin. But we should fear hell, and pray for others, too, though I have been told this: Pray the Jesus Prayer for others, but do not include the latter part. "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner." Pray that, but not, "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on them a sinner." Leave the sinner part on. The reason we know we should pray for others to be saved from hell is we pray for the dead. We don't just to that to feel good. Even Catholics believe this: one does not know the mystery of death, so we do not know WHEN the person is judged--that is the point of the funeral mass, the Purgatory belief included.

I do not like praying for other "sinners". Orthodoxy has made me feel that dangerous. Praying for the dead is different though. We know they are dead, and they are going one way or the other--our very prayers may be what saves them, or moves God to, or them to, or however it works. Our prayers do something. It is enough to pray for others in general I think. I suppose if someone we know is doing something very bad, we should pray for them. We should just be careful in praying for "their" sinfulness. I really have no right to pray for other sinners. In fact, I think that maybe my sinner's prayer may be worth more perhaps because of the mercy of God, who makes something wicked and worthless good. I think a thief's prayer may be wroth than a priest's sometimes.

I find it hard to find any prayers referng to others as "sinners" (omparing to refering as "sinners" to ourselves). So what are you responding to?
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Offline wainscottbl

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Re: I think my mother will go to heavnen.
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2016, 10:04:45 PM »
Nine is a square of none, and this seems a sign to me. God bless me, therefore, and you are. Surely God speaks through that square via His trinity.

This part confuses me.

Square of three! Or one. One if I say it is one. No, I do that sort of stupid stuff all the time when typing. I wish we could edit posts from a long time ago. But confusion is good sometimes. I'd be concerned if you could neither read nor do simple math.

That explained nothing, really.


Yes, it is a sin to believe someone will go to hell, too, I think. We can say the sin damns, but to say Hitler will go to hell (if he were alive) or some other clearly evil person, is a sin. But we should fear hell, and pray for others, too, though I have been told this: Pray the Jesus Prayer for others, but do not include the latter part. "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner." Pray that, but not, "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on them a sinner." Leave the sinner part on. The reason we know we should pray for others to be saved from hell is we pray for the dead. We don't just to that to feel good. Even Catholics believe this: one does not know the mystery of death, so we do not know WHEN the person is judged--that is the point of the funeral mass, the Purgatory belief included.

I do not like praying for other "sinners". Orthodoxy has made me feel that dangerous. Praying for the dead is different though. We know they are dead, and they are going one way or the other--our very prayers may be what saves them, or moves God to, or them to, or however it works. Our prayers do something. It is enough to pray for others in general I think. I suppose if someone we know is doing something very bad, we should pray for them. We should just be careful in praying for "their" sinfulness. I really have no right to pray for other sinners. In fact, I think that maybe my sinner's prayer may be worth more perhaps because of the mercy of God, who makes something wicked and worthless good. I think a thief's prayer may be wroth than a priest's sometimes.

I find it hard to find any prayers referng to others as "sinners" (omparing to refering as "sinners" to ourselves). So what are you responding to?

1. It said it was a mistake--a typo. As for that other part, it was a joke. If you understood what I said, I was saying, then that would indicate a problem. A subtle jest.

2. I am responding to the quoted post from

1. She is Mormon.

2. She, whatever the faults of Mormonism, tries to fulfill her Mormon duties, going to the temple every month, "visiting teaching" every month, when so many Mormons neglect this.

3. Does family research every month as her Church suggests, or short of commands.

4. She was a heathen before she converted. She did not drink heavily or all of that, be she was not pious. But now she is as per the reasons above.

5. I believe God shall judge her for her holiness and piousness as per as she understands it, not as it is subjectively true.

6. God have mercy on her faults. She does not drink. I do, and am, but I am sober in commending her. Sober, however, I have been thinking of commending her when I was sober, because I am stupid, a fool, and you have been right if you have hated me, or censured me, whether harshly or gently.

7. Lord have mercy on us all.

8. Pray for me

9. God have mercy one me. Nine is a square of none, and this seems a sign to me. God bless me, therefore, and you are. Surely God speaks through that square via His trinity. God bless. Forgive my sins. But I have long wanted to express this this to you and am crying. Amen.

I think she will go to heaven too. Somehow I think it's a sin to think that anyone will go to hell. But that's just where I'm at right now. Hell was created for the devil and his demons, not for us. If perhaps some of us suffer hell, that is God's judgment not ours. Let us believe and hope the best for all souls. God's mercy endures forever. Your mother, as unorthodox as her doctrines may be, seems to be much more righteous in her life than I am with all of my "Orthodoxy." So don't worry about such things. Just love your mother and be thankful for the light that shines in and through her life.

Just my two cents on it.


Selam


He was saying it would be a sin to think someone was going to hell, and I agreed. And then I continued to say something on the matter because I felt that we should pray for people, including ourselves, and the dead, as I said, because we are all sinners. And if I seemed to be contradicting myself or rambling, do not scandalize yourself and censure me. I think it is good if I did contradict, because I feared to "pray for sinners" if I am one. But I have to say to myself, "They are human, too, and sinners therefore, and so, should I not, in charity, pray for them? But what if I sin or put myself in danger of self-righteousness by "praying for their sinfulness", even though I know they are sinners? Are we to pray for our neighbor the thief that he will repent, or are we simply to pray for him, and let God give the graces, which will be ones to move to repentance? Uncertainty in these things is wisdom. So please don't think me wrong for contradicting myself if I am afraid to say something that may be false. Of course, if you know the truth about this, please tell me. Don't censure me though. But perhaps are you misunderstood me, I misunderstood you.




The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.
                                                             -Aristotle



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