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Cognomen
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« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2011, 03:27:29 AM » |
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I, for one, would happily support this movement towards unity and welcome their adoption of our liturgical calendar!
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North American Eastern Orthodox Parish Council Delegate for the Canonization of Saints Twin Towers and Pentagon, as well as the Propagation of the Doctrine of the Assumption of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (NAEOPCDCSTTPPDAMAFM®).
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username!
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« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2011, 03:43:09 AM » |
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Um, no, it's not "different calenders" that makes for a different date between the Orthodox Christians and the Roman Catholics.
As in the early church AND now the Orthodox Christians (Eastern) the moon situation must happen + Seder has to happen=Pascha date.
Christ is the New Convenant, the New Testament. Holding Easter/Pascha before Seder has happened just doesn't make sense in the New Testament sense. Christ was killed after the Seder, to hold Easter before Seder happens, well, it just doesn't fit biblically.
ok, so yes, I think the fact that we use the julian calender for Easter determination of course will effect the difference between RCC and EO, so factor that into the equation above.
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« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 03:44:08 AM by username! »
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elijahmaria
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« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2011, 11:51:00 AM » |
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Um, no, it's not "different calenders" that makes for a different date between the Orthodox Christians and the Roman Catholics.
As in the early church AND now the Orthodox Christians (Eastern) the moon situation must happen + Seder has to happen=Pascha date.
Christ is the New Convenant, the New Testament. Holding Easter/Pascha before Seder has happened just doesn't make sense in the New Testament sense. Christ was killed after the Seder, to hold Easter before Seder happens, well, it just doesn't fit biblically.
ok, so yes, I think the fact that we use the julian calender for Easter determination of course will effect the difference between RCC and EO, so factor that into the equation above.
Please don't deride me as others do here but I don't have a reference for this but Pope Benedict has said that we should do this and follow the Orthodox reckoning. I've tested that idea out on other Catholics and they go crazy. But if we are to do it at all that is the way it must be done. Pope Benedict is correct on this. His Curia most likely reacted as my acquaintances reacted. Pity. |
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scamandrius
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« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2011, 01:23:02 PM » |
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How does celebrating Pascha on the same day foster unity? It doesn't, because the RCC and the Protestants have some very "interesting" ideas of not only what Pascha means but what happened on Pascha. Why celebrate an event on the same day which has thousands of different interpretations and implications for doctrine and dogma. Keep the RCC and Protestants out of EO Pascha.
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I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius
Those who do not read history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous
What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
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username!
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« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2011, 02:40:04 PM » |
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It's not a matter of it being "EO pascha"... it is a matter of the fact that the way we determine the date of Pascha is per early church instruction. Don't feel like this is a new issue between the Church of Rome and the Church of Constantinople.. The west has sort of gone wibbly-wobbly on the Easter date since the early days of Christianity. Read a simple early church history book, they usually discuss this in the first one or two chapters. So really the roman cc and the EO top dogs aren't really showing any emotions that are new towards this issue  |
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« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 02:41:12 PM by username! »
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William
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« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2011, 03:21:30 PM » |
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Is the Western Easter calculated the same way as Pascha except on the Gregorian calendar or is there some other difference?
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Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant
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orthonorm
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« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2011, 03:26:50 PM » |
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How does celebrating Pascha on the same day foster unity? It doesn't, because the RCC and the Protestants have some very "interesting" ideas of not only what Pascha means but what happened on Pascha. Why celebrate an event on the same day which has thousands of different interpretations and implications for doctrine and dogma. Keep the RCC and Protestants out of EO Pascha.
*sigh* I dunno even where to begin here . . . |
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Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
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LBK
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« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2011, 03:29:03 PM » |
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Is the Western Easter calculated the same way as Pascha except on the Gregorian calendar or is there some other difference?
My understanding is that the west does not take into account when the Jewish Passover falls, whereas we do, for reasons that username mentioned. |
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Melodist
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« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2011, 03:45:20 PM » |
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Please don't deride me as others do here but I don't have a reference for this but Pope Benedict has said that we should do this and follow the Orthodox reckoning. Interesting. How does celebrating Pascha on the same day foster unity? Because celebrating it on different days foster disunity. Look at the debates caused within and schisms from Orthodoxy over the adoption of the new calendar which still celebrates Pascha on the same day. This move by itself would be incredibly far from bringing Rome back into Communion with Orthodoxy, but would be a step. Any step taken by Rome that brings it closer to us should be welcomed as a step closer to regaining our seperated brothers. And to be honest, I'm not really that fond of dogmatically basing our calculations for Pascha off of a calendar developed within a tradition that has spent the last 2,000 years calling our Creator a blaspheming heretic. Just my opinion, either way it is a feast of the Church and I will celebrate it with the Church when our bishops call for it to be celebrated. Just my opinion. |
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Ortho_cat
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« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2011, 03:47:04 PM » |
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How does celebrating Pascha on the same day foster unity? It doesn't, because the RCC and the Protestants have some very "interesting" ideas of not only what Pascha means but what happened on Pascha. Why celebrate an event on the same day which has thousands of different interpretations and implications for doctrine and dogma. Keep the RCC and Protestants out of EO Pascha.
Ya external unity like matching easter dates doesn't really mean much in the whole scheme of thing. |
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Apotheoun
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« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2011, 03:48:54 PM » |
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How does celebrating Pascha on the same day foster unity? It doesn't, because the RCC and the Protestants have some very "interesting" ideas of not only what Pascha means but what happened on Pascha. Why celebrate an event on the same day which has thousands of different interpretations and implications for doctrine and dogma. Keep the RCC and Protestants out of EO Pascha.
Ya external unity like matching easter dates doesn't really mean much in the whole scheme of thing. True, but it doesn't hurt.  I am for the various Catholic Churches adopting the Orthodox date for Easter. |
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"All that the Father has belongs likewise to the Son, except Causality."
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Ortho_cat
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« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2011, 03:52:17 PM » |
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oh i misread the op. if they want to celebrate easter on our day, thats fine with me better they come around late than never... |
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Papist
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« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2011, 03:52:32 PM » |
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I honestly don't have a problem celebrating Easter according to the EO calendar. It is certainly one of the concessions on our part that need not affect the substance of the faith.
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You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
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Jason.Wike
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« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2011, 04:25:26 PM » |
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And to be honest, I'm not really that fond of dogmatically basing our calculations for Pascha off of a calendar developed within a tradition that has spent the last 2,000 years calling our Creator a blaspheming heretic.
I don't think it is, the way it is calculated is the way Jews used to calculate Passover but they have changed it sometime in the past 2000 years I think. So "done the way the Jews do it" doesn't mean the way Maimonides or a modern Rabbi would do it. |
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stanley123
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« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2011, 05:44:04 PM » |
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How does celebrating Pascha on the same day foster unity? It doesn't, because the RCC and the Protestants have some very "interesting" ideas of not only what Pascha means but what happened on Pascha. Why celebrate an event on the same day which has thousands of different interpretations and implications for doctrine and dogma. Keep the RCC and Protestants out of EO Pascha.
Thousands of different interpretations sounds like a lot of different interpretations. Is there a list somewhere of the thousands of different implications and thousands of different interpretations of Easter? |
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PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
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« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2011, 05:53:54 PM » |
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Is the Western Easter calculated the same way as Pascha except on the Gregorian calendar or is there some other difference?
One of the differences is that the Eastern Church adopted a 19-year Paschal cycle, while the Western Church adopted an 84-year cycle. What that difference means specifically, I don't know. |
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PeterTheAleut
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Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
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« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2011, 05:58:30 PM » |
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Um, no, it's not "different calenders" that makes for a different date between the Orthodox Christians and the Roman Catholics.
As in the early church AND now the Orthodox Christians (Eastern) the moon situation must happen + Seder has to happen=Pascha date.
Christ is the New Convenant, the New Testament. Holding Easter/Pascha before Seder has happened just doesn't make sense in the New Testament sense. Christ was killed after the Seder, to hold Easter before Seder happens, well, it just doesn't fit biblically.
ok, so yes, I think the fact that we use the julian calender for Easter determination of course will effect the difference between RCC and EO, so factor that into the equation above.
But what do you make of the fact that even today's Jews don't follow the method for scheduling their Passover that they followed in the earliest Christian centuries? |
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username!
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« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2011, 07:12:52 PM » |
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I honestly don't have a problem celebrating Easter according to the EO calendar. It is certainly one of the concessions on our part that need not affect the substance of the faith.
The holy fire in jerusalem happens on EO Pascha |
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Cavaradossi
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« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2011, 10:28:37 PM » |
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I honestly don't have a problem celebrating Easter according to the EO calendar. It is certainly one of the concessions on our part that need not affect the substance of the faith.
The holy fire in jerusalem happens on EO Pascha So basically, the holy fire is like magic. Get the day right, be the right bishop, be in the right tomb, and say the right prayers. For some reason, I doubt it works like this. |
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« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 10:29:14 PM by Cavaradossi »
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Be comforted, and have faith, O Israel, for your God is infinitely simple and one, composed of no parts.
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Alveus Lacuna
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« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2011, 10:37:19 PM » |
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I honestly don't have a problem celebrating Easter according to the EO calendar. It is certainly one of the concessions on our part that need not affect the substance of the faith.
The holy fire in jerusalem happens on EO Pascha So basically, the holy fire is like magic. Get the day right, be the right bishop, be in the right tomb, and say the right prayers. For some reason, I doubt it works like this. I think he just means that you have to get the faith right. |
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Cavaradossi
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« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2011, 10:46:25 PM » |
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I honestly don't have a problem celebrating Easter according to the EO calendar. It is certainly one of the concessions on our part that need not affect the substance of the faith.
The holy fire in jerusalem happens on EO Pascha So basically, the holy fire is like magic. Get the day right, be the right bishop, be in the right tomb, and say the right prayers. For some reason, I doubt it works like this. I think he just means that you have to get the faith right. In which case I agree. But if he means that the day on which Easter occurs is a factor which affects whether the Holy Fire will happen or not, then I would have to disagree. |
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Be comforted, and have faith, O Israel, for your God is infinitely simple and one, composed of no parts.
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Melodist
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« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2011, 10:49:47 PM » |
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I honestly don't have a problem celebrating Easter according to the EO calendar. It is certainly one of the concessions on our part that need not affect the substance of the faith. The holy fire in jerusalem happens on EO Pascha So basically, the holy fire is like magic. Get the day right, be the right bishop, be in the right tomb, and say the right prayers. For some reason, I doubt it works like this. I think he just means that you have to get the faith right. In which case I agree. But if he means that the day on which Easter occurs is a factor which affects whether the Holy Fire will happen or not, then I would have to disagree. I think it's a gift, not a timing mechanism. We've been celebrating Pascha longer than we've had the holy fire or a Church built over Christ's tomb. |
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scamandrius
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« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2011, 11:05:19 PM » |
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How does celebrating Pascha on the same day foster unity? It doesn't, because the RCC and the Protestants have some very "interesting" ideas of not only what Pascha means but what happened on Pascha. Why celebrate an event on the same day which has thousands of different interpretations and implications for doctrine and dogma. Keep the RCC and Protestants out of EO Pascha.
*sigh* I dunno even where to begin here . . . Do you favor a common date? sigh |
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I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius
Those who do not read history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous
What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
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