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Author Topic: World Orthodox council.  (Read 1578 times) Average Rating: 0
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charly
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« on: August 27, 2004, 12:07:21 PM »


There are many Orthodox Churches around the world like Syrian Orthodox, Antocian Orthodox, Russian orthodox, Armenian Orthodox, Indian Orthodox, Coptic Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Cupriot Orthodox, American orthodox etc.  and it will be nice if all the Orthodox Churchec together form a council in common and that may enable to have co-operation among all these Orthodox churches Globelly.

I personaly do not think that there will not be any benefit of having the dialogue with the Catholics as the basic principles of the Catholics will not change instead of that they are trying to absorb the Orthodox under their supremacy.

The Catholics teaches that Pope is unquestainable and he is sinnless but the Orthodox teaching is that no one is sinnless except Te Trinity.  And the Catholics teaching about St. Mary is that St. Mary is born with a pre-concept to conceive Jesus hense the Catholics celeberating the birthday of St. Mary but we Orthodox respecting St. mary as the mother of God since she conceived Jesus. We the Orthodox is celeberating the only birthday and that is of Jesus Christ our Savior.  

The rest we are celeberating the day of the departure as it is the birth to the eternal heavenly life.

Do the Catholics change these basics?  So it will be nice if all the Orthodox Churches come in a common platforum and co-operate each other without a power game.  It will be a blessed atmosphere.

With regards,
Charly V. Padanilam,  Houston.     charlycp@hotmail.com
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« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2004, 12:29:58 PM »

Quote
There are many Orthodox Churches around the world like Syrian Orthodox, Antocian Orthodox, Russian orthodox, Armenian Orthodox, Indian Orthodox, Coptic Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Cupriot Orthodox, American orthodox etc.  and it will be nice if all the Orthodox Churchec together form a council in common and that may enable to have co-operation among all these Orthodox churches Globelly.

That's a nice idea. One issue, which you can read about on this board, is you're talking about not one but at least two 'families' of Eastern churches, the Eastern Orthodox such as the Russian and Cypriot Orthodox, and the Oriental Orthodox such as the Syrian (including Indian), Coptic, Ethiopian and Armenian churches. (The third group is the Assyrian Church, Church of the East or what used to be called the Nestorians - they're the historic Church of Iraq.)

What you describe could happen in future as the two sides are very close now - most experts think the split between the two groups was a big misunderstanding - but not just yet as they're not formally in communion. Moderator Phil Mathew (Mor Ephrem) is a member of the Malankara Church, the Indian branch of the Syrian Church, and can better describe this for you.

Quote
I personaly do not think that there will not be any benefit of having the dialogue with the Catholics as the basic principles of the Catholics will not change instead of that they are trying to absorb the Orthodox under their supremacy.

No, they won't and they wouldn't deserve any respect if they did. What can change is not the theory behind it but how the papacy is used. As for absorption, on one hand there's a stack of RC documents denying that the Orthodox would be changed, but on the other there is the sad experience of the Eastern Catholic churches being second-class subjects and self-latinizing, changing their rites to be more like RC for no good reason. (The stack of documents tells them not to but they did it anyway.)

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The Catholics teaches that Pope is unquestainable and he is sinnless

No on both counts. He's unquestionable only in certain situations that are very rare and he isn't sinless. John Paul II, for example, goes to Confession at least every week.

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but the Orthodox teaching is that no one is sinnless except Te Trinity.

Both sides agree on that - God is sinless in Himself, others such as Mary were made sinless. Both sides say she is immaculate (-+-Ç-¦-+-¦-+-+-Ç-+-ç-+-¦-Å in Russian).

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And the Catholics teaching about St. Mary is that St. Mary is born with a pre-concept to conceive Jesus hense the Catholics celeberating the birthday of St. Mary but we Orthodox respecting St. mary as the mother of God since she conceived Jesus.


You're setting up an opposition where there isn't any. See above, and both sides celebrate both her conception and her birthday.

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We the Orthodox is celeberating the only birthday and that is of Jesus Christ our Savior.
 

No. You also celebrate the birthdays of Mary and St John the Baptist.

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The rest we are celeberating the day of the departure as it is the birth to the eternal heavenly life.

As does western Catholicism.

Quote
Do the Catholics change these basics?

No.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2004, 12:31:31 PM by Serge » Logged

charly
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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2004, 12:43:05 PM »

We The indian orthodox Church do not accept to celeberate the birthday of St. mary instesd of that we celeberate the Ascendency.  The reason is that St. Mary is not born as a sinnless . Mary born as usual as any individual but she was very Godfearing girl so shwe has been chosen to conceive Jesus.  that is the teachings of The Indian Orthodox church.    

But the Syrian Orthodox (Jacobites) is celeberating the birthday of St. Mary by following the tradition of the Catholics and it is also not officially accepted to their Church.

Charly V. padanilam.
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2004, 01:09:53 PM »

Charly,

The Eastern Orthodox celebrate the birthday of the Theotokos on Sept 8, her conception by St Ann on Dec 8, as well as other feasts.

The Eastern Orthodox believe Mary was sinless, although given the Eastern belief that no one is born with a taint of original sin, there is no need for an Immaculate Conception.

I think you should change your avatar (the image under your name) becuase the two bishops you selected happen to be of the opinion that your Church (the Indian Orthodox Church) is not Orthodox but Monophysite; hence, it might be better for you to select a saint or some other image.

Welcome to the forum.

anastasios

PS Board news is only for questions about the board itself. Your question belongs elsewhere, so I moved it.
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« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2004, 05:42:49 PM »

We The indian orthodox Church do not accept to celeberate the birthday of St. mary instesd of that we celeberate the Ascendency.  The reason is that St. Mary is not born as a sinnless . Mary born as usual as any individual but she was very Godfearing girl so shwe has been chosen to conceive Jesus.  that is the teachings of The Indian Orthodox church.    

Dear Charly,

The above is very wrong.  

But even if you were right, then where did Ettu Nombu come from?  I can guarantee you it is not only the Jacobites who celebrate it.  The Malankara Orthodox Church does indeed commemorate the Birthday of the Mother of God with great solemnity on 8 September (or the Sunday closest to it, by permission of the bishop).  

Quote
But the Syrian Orthodox (Jacobites) is celeberating the birthday of St. Mary by following the tradition of the Catholics and it is also not officially accepted to their Church.

Again, this is wrong.  If you have proof to the contrary, please present it.
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Jack
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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2004, 04:51:17 PM »


There are many Orthodox Churches around the world like Syrian Orthodox, Antocian Orthodox, Russian orthodox, Armenian Orthodox, Indian Orthodox, Coptic Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Cupriot Orthodox, American orthodox etc.  and it will be nice if all the Orthodox Churchec together form a council in common and that may enable to have co-operation among all these Orthodox churches Globelly.

I personaly do not think that there will not be any benefit of having the dialogue with the Catholics as the basic principles of the Catholics will not change instead of that they are trying to absorb the Orthodox under their supremacy.

The Catholics teaches that Pope is unquestainable and he is sinnless but the Orthodox teaching is that no one is sinnless except Te Trinity.  And the Catholics teaching about St. Mary is that St. Mary is born with a pre-concept to conceive Jesus hense the Catholics celeberating the birthday of St. Mary but we Orthodox respecting St. mary as the mother of God since she conceived Jesus. We the Orthodox is celeberating the only birthday and that is of Jesus Christ our Savior.  

The rest we are celeberating the day of the departure as it is the birth to the eternal heavenly life.

Do the Catholics change these basics?  So it will be nice if all the Orthodox Churches come in a common platforum and co-operate each other without a power game.  It will be a blessed atmosphere.

With regards,
Charly V. Padanilam,  Houston.     charlycp@hotmail.com

How could you call it an ecumenical council if you refused to invite the vast majority of western bishops?
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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2004, 05:59:35 PM »

Dear Jack,

Actually for about 15 years now there has been work in progress for a "Pan Orthodox Council"  Our faith has been given to us in belief and doctrine and it will not change, and is live from that perspective. This has been understood and decreed by the prior Orthodox Ecumenical Councils. Our beloved Orthodox Church is as Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is “the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.”  There are other ecclesiastic matters that apparently will be addressed.

The Roman Catholic Church is believed to have fallen into the error of heresy including her bishops, that is the normal way that Orthodoxy understands the position of see of Rome, as such the Latins with the Bishop of Rome are not in communion with the Orthodox Church. Rome has done this to herself for the Orthodox Church has not altered or changed from the teachings of the 7 Orthodox Ecumenical Councils. Having said that certainly Rome is looked upon with concern and sadness relative to her separation from the Orthodox faith, but we cannot change that , she can either return to the faith of the Orthodox Church and the correct teachings reflected in Orthodox Patristic thought or she will remain separated. Established Orthodox doctrine is not negotiable, that is really the way that it is.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

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MatthewPanchisin
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« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2004, 06:16:22 PM »

There is a online video interview real media format with and "interview with His All Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew" about 10 minutes into it he mentions the work being done for a council. Here is the link you'll find the interview about  1/3 of the way down the page.


http://www.goarch.org/en/multimedia/video/
« Last Edit: August 28, 2004, 09:50:56 PM by MatthewPanchisin » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2004, 08:30:05 AM »

15 years on a Pan-Orthodox Coucnil? Perhaps they gave up on the idea of an Ecumenical Council, but they had been planning that for much longer than 15 years. In fact, in 1977 St. Justin Popovich was asked to write about this proposed council, and did so by humbly pointing out the ecclesiological abnormalities in the methodology being used to set up the council. Maybe Constantinople just eventually realised that they just weren't going to be able to stack the deck in their favor like they wanted and opted for a different type of council?
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