OrthodoxChristianity.net
December 25, 2014, 03:17:01 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Irenaeus and the Papacy  (Read 23671 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Jennifer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,154


« Reply #135 on: December 15, 2004, 12:52:32 AM »


That being said, I think that one's confirmation would be called into question if it was done in a protestant church because they have no apostolic succession. I think that Catholics would be chrismated, just like a protestant who had been properly baptized. The only case where one could be received via the sacrament of confession and communion would the the Oriental Orthodox, insofar as I know.

Supposedly ACROD receives converts from the Eastern Catholic Churches by confession and communion. 
Logged
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,487


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #136 on: December 15, 2004, 12:59:13 AM »



Supposedly ACROD receives converts from the Eastern Catholic Churches by confession and communion.

This is accurate in some cases.

Anastasios
Logged

Please Buy My Book!

Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.
MsGuided
Pharmakolytria
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 478


St. Anastasia


« Reply #137 on: December 15, 2004, 01:02:08 AM »

The Church of Greece (in most cases), Church of Jerusalem, Stavropeghial Monastery of St Irene Chrysovalantou and Mt Athos under the EP, in many cases the Serbs, and ROCOR all baptize Catholics and Protestants converting. One cannot really say it is wrong to baptize a Catholic converting therefore.

Anastasios

Is that done because they believe the first baptism had incorrect form? (no triple immersion) Or is it that anyone outside of the Orthodox Church has to be baptised? (would that be an "intent" issue?)
 
(boy, I'm just full of questions...)
Logged

"Forgive me that great love leads me to talking nonsense." Barsanuphius
Jennifer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,154


« Reply #138 on: December 15, 2004, 01:03:59 AM »

Well, I think I have heard enough to determine that this is not the place for me; though I am interested by the comment that most of you are former RCs. What? SSPX folks? The mindset, if not the particular convictions, is familiar. And if it means anything to you, I leave more convinced of the Truth, not to mention the Charity, of the Catholic Church.....adios
-Daniel

Since Daniel is gone this isn't directed at him but I wanted to comment on the perception that the RCC is more "charitable" than the Orthodox because the RCC believes that the Orthodox has valid sacraments. 

What does charity have to do with accepting the claims of another religious group?  Is the RCC not "charitable" to the Jews because it thinks they're wrong?  Is the RCC not charitable to the Protestants for rejecting their legitimacy?  No. 

BTW, I don't think anyone here was ever involved with the SSPX. 
Logged
Jennifer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,154


« Reply #139 on: December 15, 2004, 01:04:53 AM »



This is accurate in some cases.

Anastasios

But accurate in others. 

Does anyone know how St. Alexius Toth  and his followers were received into Orthodoxy?
Logged
Pravoslavbob
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,194


St. Sisoes the Great


« Reply #140 on: December 15, 2004, 01:06:35 AM »

I detect a high sense of judgmentalism in your posts. If you really think we are so awful, then please, do stop posting. But don't fault us for preaching what Orthodoxy teaches. I am amazed at the charity of our posters here, who are very compassionate towards the typical Roman Catholic's situation, wishing that they could say the Roman Catholic Church is part of the Church, but having to say it isn't with a trepidation and fear based on the truth of Orthodoxy.

You read my mind, Anastasios!



Logged

Religion is a disease, and Orthodoxy is its cure.
Jakub
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,749



« Reply #141 on: December 15, 2004, 01:08:46 AM »

Again I disagree with most of you, discussing someones baptism etc is not a matter for the "general laity".

james
Logged

An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,487


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #142 on: December 15, 2004, 01:10:43 AM »



But accurate in others.

Does anyone know how St. Alexius Toth and his followers were received into Orthodoxy?


The followers by reception; he may have been chrismated or simply vested. Economy is especially geared towards large-scale conversions from the Eastern Catholic Churches, where the form of all the sacraments was in place.

Anastasios
Logged

Please Buy My Book!

Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,487


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #143 on: December 15, 2004, 01:11:25 AM »

Again I disagree with most of you, discussing someones baptism etc is not a matter for the "general laity".

james

Neither is discussing any spiritual topic.  But here we are.  This is an academic discussion anyway--no one is telling someone else how he should be received.

Anastasios
Logged

Please Buy My Book!

Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.
Pravoslavbob
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,194


St. Sisoes the Great


« Reply #144 on: December 15, 2004, 01:16:22 AM »

What does charity have to do with accepting the claims of another religious group? Is the RCC not "charitable" to the Jews because it thinks they're wrong? Is the RCC not charitable to the Protestants for rejecting their legitimacy? No.

Exactly, Jennifer.
Logged

Religion is a disease, and Orthodoxy is its cure.
Pravoslavbob
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,194


St. Sisoes the Great


« Reply #145 on: December 15, 2004, 01:22:03 AM »

Again I disagree with most of you, discussing someones baptism etc is not a matter for the "general laity".

Oh, okay. So you believe that clericalism is the way to go. Clericalism is foreign to the true spirit of Orthodoxy, however. If it weren't for the laity playing their part as the guardians of the faith, the Orthodox Church would not exist today.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2004, 01:22:26 AM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

Religion is a disease, and Orthodoxy is its cure.
CatholicEagle
Banned
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 255


HH St.Pius X, Pope of Rome, Ecumenical Pontiff


« Reply #146 on: December 15, 2004, 01:30:38 AM »



Since Daniel is gone this isn't directed at him but I wanted to comment on the perception that the RCC is more "charitable" than the Orthodox because the RCC believes that the Orthodox has valid sacraments.

What does charity have to do with accepting the claims of another religious group? Is the RCC not "charitable" to the Jews because it thinks they're wrong? Is the RCC not charitable to the Protestants for rejecting their legitimacy? No.

BTW, I don't think anyone here was ever involved with the SSPX.
Sacraments received from SSPX priest are valid.
Logged
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,487


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #147 on: December 15, 2004, 01:35:00 AM »


 Sacraments received from SSPX priest are valid.

From a Roman Catholic point of view.
Logged

Please Buy My Book!

Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.
MatthewPanchisin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 153


OC.net


« Reply #148 on: December 15, 2004, 01:46:12 AM »

Dear Bob,

The Orthodox Church will always exist. The Ecumenical Patriarch once said something like (faith can exist without freedom but freedom can not exist without faith.) If my memory serves me correctly it was during an address to the U.S Congress. My point being that you are 100% right about "the laity playing their part as the guardians of the faith." Under communism the laity kept the faith and even died for it. No Orthodox theological licenses are issued or necessary to speak, however obedience to our Bishops who rightly divide the word of God's truth is understood. I don't want to sound uncharitable again but that premise is really one of the reasons that we don't have "liturgical abuse" issues. There would be an uprising with Babushkas with brooms, in short the village mentality would prevail. That is because it is perceived as the treasure that the Orthodox Church is internally and externally.

Sorry for the rant.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

« Last Edit: December 15, 2004, 01:50:30 AM by MatthewPanchisin » Logged
Pravoslavbob
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,194


St. Sisoes the Great


« Reply #149 on: December 15, 2004, 02:01:39 AM »

Dear Matthew,

  You make some very important points. You are, of course, absolutely right about being obedient to one's bishop. Except of course, when it comes to things like rejecting the council of Florence. That's partly what I meant about the laity being guardians.  Thank God for the babushki, too!

In Christ,


Bob
Logged

Religion is a disease, and Orthodoxy is its cure.
MatthewPanchisin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 153


OC.net


« Reply #150 on: December 15, 2004, 02:12:53 AM »

Dear Bob,

I would have moved to Ephesus there was a Bishop there I would have been comfortable with namely St. Mark of Ephesus. Iconofile could have packed my bags and then Orthodocs.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin
« Last Edit: December 15, 2004, 02:14:30 AM by MatthewPanchisin » Logged
Pravoslavbob
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,194


St. Sisoes the Great


« Reply #151 on: December 15, 2004, 02:22:45 AM »

Dear Matthew,

Yes, Ephesus would have been the place to be.  Smiley

In Christ,

Bob
Logged

Religion is a disease, and Orthodoxy is its cure.
CatholicEagle
Banned
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 255


HH St.Pius X, Pope of Rome, Ecumenical Pontiff


« Reply #152 on: December 15, 2004, 02:26:40 AM »



From a Roman Catholic point of view.
but to Orthodox we are "perfidiis" we catholics onyl use that in regard to the Jews.
Logged
Jakub
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,749



« Reply #153 on: December 15, 2004, 02:42:05 AM »

Excuuse me,

I have a serious problem with a catechumen in the Orthodox faith attempting to question my or others validity of Sacraments, now if you or anybody that is a valid ordained priest is another matter.

I would truly love to meet many of you in the flesh and eye to eye at some point.

Very opinionated and judging people, though close to what the Pharisees were.

james

ps- we all have something in common, we are all imperfect
Logged

An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
prodromos
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 1,463

Sydney, Australia


« Reply #154 on: December 15, 2004, 04:00:16 AM »

Excuuse me,

I have a serious problem with a catechumen in the Orthodox faith attempting to question my or others validity of Sacraments, now if you or anybody that is a valid ordained priest is another matter.


We are merely stating what we understand the position of the Orthodox church to be. If the Orthodox church had stated dogmatically that Catholic sacraments were not valid then that would be our position, whether you found it to be offensive or not. Nothing opinionated or judgemental about that.

John.
Logged
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,487


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #155 on: December 15, 2004, 11:38:34 AM »

Excuuse me,

I have a serious problem with a catechumen in the Orthodox faith attempting to question my or others validity of Sacraments, now if you or anybody that is a valid ordained priest is another matter.

I would truly love to meet many of you in the flesh and eye to eye at some point.

Very opinionated and judging people, though close to what the Pharisees were.

james

ps- we all have something in common, we are all imperfect

More clericalism--you don't have to be a priest to know what the Orthodox Church teaches on this subject.  No one is making this stuff up; there are plenty of sources where anyone, priest or layman, can read the Orthodox Church's teaching.  Problem is that many people are too lazy to do that or what to insert their emotions into the debate and say "Orthodoxy couldn't possibly teach this!"

Anastasios
Logged

Please Buy My Book!

Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,487


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #156 on: December 15, 2004, 11:39:36 AM »

Excuuse me,

I have a serious problem with a catechumen in the Orthodox faith attempting to question my or others validity of Sacraments, now if you or anybody that is a valid ordained priest is another matter.

I would truly love to meet many of you in the flesh and eye to eye at some point.

Very opinionated and judging people, though close to what the Pharisees were.

james

ps- we all have something in common, we are all imperfect

We are all imperfect, but that is irrelevant. You are very judgmental yourself, calling us close to Pharisees.  Have you actually read any Orthodox dogmatic treatises on this issue?

Anastasios
Logged

Please Buy My Book!

Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,487


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #157 on: December 15, 2004, 11:44:40 AM »

Let me add a personal note. Do I think that nothing happens at Roman Catholic sacraments? No.  Something is there I believe but that is only based on my personal experience of being Catholic for several years.  God is present and God can work in the Catholic Church. But dogmatically, Orthodox can NOT say that it is the sacraments as they are found in the Orthodox Church, lest they divide the Church. Hence, the best approach is agnosticism--hoping that God is indeed blessing the people in other Churches with grace (we know he is everywhere after all) but not being able to say definitively "yes"

Anastasios
Logged

Please Buy My Book!

Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.
Jakub
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,749



« Reply #158 on: December 15, 2004, 12:17:27 PM »

Again the labeling word clericalism, but many here are attached to legalisms, precepts of men.

"But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace".
James 3:17-18

james
Logged

An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
MatthewPanchisin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 153


OC.net


« Reply #159 on: December 15, 2004, 12:50:13 PM »

Dear Catholic Eagle,

Could you tell me your interpretation of the word "perfidiis" as I don't know what it means.

I think the Orthodox thought on this subject matter is in short (we cannot say) as indicated below.

The Patriarchal Encyclical of 1895
A Reply to the Papal Encyclical of Pope Leo XIII (1895) on Reunion

(The union of the separated Churches with herself in one rule of faith is, as has been said before, a sacred and inward desire of the holy, catholic and orthodox apostolic Church of Christ; but without such unity in the faith, the desired union of the Churches becomes impossible. This being the case, we wonder in truth how the Most Blessed Pope Leo XIII, though he himself also acknowledges this truth, falls into a plain self-contradiction, declaring, on the one hand, that true union lies in the unity of faith, and, on the other hand, that every Church, even after the union, can hold her own dogmatic and canonical definitions, even when they differ from those of the Papal Church, as His Blessedness declares in a previous encyclical, dated November 30, 1894. For there is an evident contradiction when in one and the same Church one believes that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, and another that He proceeds from the Father and the Son; when one sprinkles, and another baptizes (immerses) thrice in the water; one uses leavened bread in the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist, and another unleavened; one imparts to the people of the chalice as well as of the bread, and the other only of the holy bread; and other things like these. But what this contradiction signifies, whether respect for the evangelical truths of the holy Church of Christ and an indirect concession and acknowledgement of them, or something else, we cannot say.)

In context at http://www.geocities.com/trvalentine/orthodox/ency1895.html

Dear Jakub,

Did the Publican identify the Pharisee or did the Pharisee identify the Publican?

By the way the Latins tend to look at things from a legalistic sort of perspective.

Are we not discussing a subject in terms of what the Orthodox Church teaches? As you know there is a big problem when the locations and degrees of grace or who has it and why is articulated in a dogmatic way. Be advised we are not speaking dogmatically here, as it can lead to infallible statements like the below. None are speaking in the Latin way. Since you are in the unia are you not bond to believe what the Supreme Pontiff states? Had the Orthodox Christians and her Saints that you ask the intercessions been identified or referred to as schismatics or even heretics? I think that the Roman Catholic Church still teaches that in order to be truly Catholic one must be in communion with Rome.

Pope Eugene IV's dogmatic bull Cantate Domino:
"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, EVEN IF HE POUR OUT HIS BLOOD FOR THE NAME OF CHRIST, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."

Then you have Vatican II that from what I understand in short is saying these other people can be saved as well and if they are they must be in some way be within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church even if they do want to be. So much for free will. Surely there have been many Orthodox Saints who didn't want to be in union with Rome. I could go on but I see not point for any further commentary.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin
« Last Edit: December 15, 2004, 10:01:37 PM by MatthewPanchisin » Logged
Jakub
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,749



« Reply #160 on: December 15, 2004, 01:17:52 PM »

Matthew,

Thank you for your post, I find discussions with you are quite open and without being prejudicial. Yes there are many within the Orthodox & Roman /Latin Catholics that agree & disagree on many issues, however there has always been a sort of rivalry between Greek & Roman thought.

And Anastasios, I've been discussing various issues at least monthly and in person with a cradle Romanian Orthodox priest who has been a true enlightenment for me, my notes from here are often very good topics of discussion, so I'm not without some knowledge, though I do not present it at all times.

james

« Last Edit: December 15, 2004, 01:19:29 PM by Jakub » Logged

An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,487


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #161 on: December 15, 2004, 01:39:47 PM »

Jakub,

When I was first confronted with Orthodox teachings on Non-Orthodox, I was very upset.  I understand where you are coming from.  But Jennifer made a good point: the Roman Catholic Church states that Anglican communion is just bread and wine--officially (notwithstanding some Anglo Catholic churches that from Roman standards "may" have valid Eucharist).  In fact, the Catholic Church also says that Anglican chrismation is invalid, as are its holy orders.  Only baptism and marriage are there for Anglicans, so says the Catholic Church.

The Orthodox Church's teaching is similar towards Catholics.  There are some who will argue that Catholic sacraments are valid--Deacon Lance is scheduled any minute to come and link to a website on the Moscow Patriarchate's site that says so--but this is not the commonly accepted Orthodox position.

A good book on the subject, which is unfortunately out of print, is "The Non-Orthodox" by Patrick Barnes (yes the guy who runs orthodoxinfo.com, but it is recommended by Bp Basil of the Antiochian Archdiocese).

Again, I don't deny that there is holiness and grace in the RCC and I do consider you a Christian brother.  But I can't say that outside of the Church there are mysteries that are of the same "kind" as inside the Church.

Sorry if this offends you or you think I am a Pharisee.  I don't hold any ill will towards you.

Anastasios
Logged

Please Buy My Book!

Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.
Jakub
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,749



« Reply #162 on: December 15, 2004, 01:58:45 PM »

Again a mis-read,

My comment was close to a Pharisee's. I find it amusing that I can communicate with a priest from the old country and have problems here, go figure.

And also if you look a little closer, I said that I respected my Orthodox brethern and have a brotherly love towards them, even the argumentative  ones !


james, very perplexed
Logged

An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,487


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #163 on: December 15, 2004, 02:01:14 PM »

Jakub,

What is the difference between calling someone close to a Pharisee and a Pharisee? Either way, it is negative and says that we are too legalistic. But OK, you think there is a difference, so I will accept that you are not trying to be overly critical.

The reason you can more easily communicate with him is that online there is no context for words, so we misunderstand one another. More than once I have had this problem. Smiley

Anastasios
« Last Edit: December 15, 2004, 02:01:49 PM by Anastasios » Logged

Please Buy My Book!

Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.
Jakub
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,749



« Reply #164 on: December 15, 2004, 03:09:03 PM »

Your statement has some truth to it, but as I have learned over the past couple of years, the Roman Church needs to shed/re-examine its Imperial atitude, trying to define everything, where as the Orthodox are less defining but are legalistic in many ways, very suspicious of Rome's intent and do have their reasons which I understand, as I have come to believe & have discussed with a few priests on boths sides, I am not of Paul or Peter, but of Christ Jesus.

One needs to think, understand & look carefully before leaping, I'm at the tortise pace and have no problems with it.

james
Logged

An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,487


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #165 on: December 15, 2004, 03:23:58 PM »

Your statement has some truth to it, but as I have learned over the past couple of years, the Roman Church needs to shed/re-examine its Imperial atitude, trying to define everything, where as the Orthodox are less defining but are legalistic in many ways, very suspicious of Rome's intent and do have their reasons which I understand, as I have come to believe & have discussed with a few priests on boths sides, I am not of Paul or Peter, but of Christ Jesus.

One needs to think, understand & look carefully before leaping, I'm at the tortise pace and have no problems with it.

james

Certainly I would agree with your assertion that some Orthodox are legalistic and others overly suspicious of Catholics.  I understand why someone like Orthodoc is suspicious because of his family history, but the average Orthodox born in America shouldn't automatically assume that every time the Vatican does something it has an ulterior motive. I have met many Catholics who are very sincere about church unity.

Anastasios
Logged

Please Buy My Book!

Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.
Jakub
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,749



« Reply #166 on: December 15, 2004, 03:35:51 PM »

You cannot expect to repair so many things that have occured over the past 900 years or so in a person's lifetime.

I believe that when it does occur, we will be at the end of times.

james
Logged

An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
CatholicEagle
Banned
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 255


HH St.Pius X, Pope of Rome, Ecumenical Pontiff


« Reply #167 on: December 15, 2004, 04:29:08 PM »

Dear Catholic Eagle,

Could you tell me your interpretation of the word "perfidiis" as I don't know what it means.

I think the Orthodox thought on this subject matter is in short (we cannot say) as indicated below.
In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin
Perfidis is latin for faithles.. That's the impression I get from here
Logged
Pravoslavbob
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,194


St. Sisoes the Great


« Reply #168 on: December 17, 2004, 12:58:10 AM »

Let me add a personal note. Do I think that nothing happens at Roman Catholic sacraments? No. Something is there I believe but that is only based on my personal experience of being Catholic for several years. God is present and God can work in the Catholic Church. But dogmatically, Orthodox can NOT say that it is the sacraments as they are found in the Orthodox Church, lest they divide the Church. Hence, the best approach is agnosticism--hoping that God is indeed blessing the people in other Churches with grace (we know he is everywhere after all) but not being able to say definitively "yes"

This is very close to what I think too.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2004, 12:58:31 AM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

Religion is a disease, and Orthodoxy is its cure.
Tags: That Irenaeus quote 
Pages: « 1 2 3 4  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.113 seconds with 62 queries.