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JamesR
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« on: November 21, 2011, 04:22:01 PM »

I had a few questions about our doctrine and history. I'm currently a catechumate. How does our attitude and art style toward icons differ compared to the Roman Church of the West? Also, did iconography play a part in the schism? How? And lastly, I was amazed when someone at my Parish told me that St. Paul established the Greek Orthodox Church when he wrote all of those epistles to the random Greek districts in the New Testament? Is this true? If so, I am really amazed. And lastly, did St. Peter really establish a Church in Rome or did he just die there?
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« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2011, 04:31:23 PM »

I had a few questions about our doctrine and history. I'm currently a catechumate. How does our attitude and art style toward icons differ compared to the Roman Church of the West?
Since the renaissance, the West has gone for an element of realism (i.e. trying to aim for a photographic representation of reality, rather than how it is viewed with the eyes of the Church) and emotionalism mostly absent (or borrowed) in the East.

Also, did iconography play a part in the schism?
somewhat:the iconoclast emperors tried to limit the authority of the pope of Rome (e.g. transferred the Balkans from the jurisdiction of Rome to Constantinople's), and the Frankish/Germanic emperors were iconoclastic (mostly from faulty translations of the Seventh Council) and tried to use that as an excuse to undermine opposition to the filioque.

How? And lastly, I was amazed when someone at my Parish told me that St. Paul established the Greek Orthodox Church when he wrote all of those epistles to the random Greek districts in the New Testament? Is this true? If so, I am really amazed.

Those Churches mostly still survive, and they are Greek Orthodox (or Arab Orthodox in some areas), Rome being the big exception.

And lastly, did St. Peter really establish a Church in Rome or did he just die there?
He supposedly consecrated the first bishop of Rome, Linus, and the third, St. Clement, was his disciple.  St. Paul also preached at Rome (and it seems made it to Spain).
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« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2011, 02:57:09 AM »

Regarding the Orthodox Church's Teaching About the Apostolic Foundation of the Early Churches

It's our tradition that teaches that St. Paul founded the Church of Greece, not the Greek Orthodox Church, which is the Eastern Orthodox Christian Church, founded by Jesus Christ.  I think St. Paul's speaking outside of the synagogue, to the public at the Areopagos or Mars Hill (See Acts of the Apostles 16), is the essential basis to the claim.   Our tradition also teaches that the Church of Rome was founded by St. Peter.  While there were Christian communites (followers of Christ) in these areas prior to the arrival of St. Paul and St. Peter respectively, it seems the church's teaching is that their preaching and efforts brought a more permanent foundation and organization to these churches.

The Church teaches that all the Ancient Patriarchates were founded by Apostles, St. James the Brother of the Lord, the Church of Jerusalem; St. Mark, the Church of Alexandria; St. Peter, the Church of Antioch--before he traveled to Rome, by the way, (some give St. Paul equal credit for the founding of Antioch).  The Church of Cyprus was founded by St. Barnabas, who was a follower of St. Paul's, if I'm not mistaken.   For that matter, the Church of Constantinople, at the time a fishing village known as Byzantium, was founded by St. Andrew the First Called Apostle, and brother of St. Peter, but he left St. Stachys the Apostle to organize the Church of Byzantium.
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« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2011, 08:57:27 AM »

And lastly, I was amazed when someone at my Parish told me that St. Paul established the Greek Orthodox Church when he wrote all of those epistles to the random Greek districts in the New Testament? Is this true?

He didn't establish the churches in Greece by writing letters, but by going there with traveling companions (like Barnabas and Luke for example) and preaching, baptizing, and ordaining elders and bishops. He wrote the letters after he established the churches.

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And lastly, did St. Peter really establish a Church in Rome or did he just die there?

He preached and labored everywhere he went. He is traditionally credited as establishing the church in Rome, along with a lot of other places like Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost, Antioch, and he went along with St John to confirm the Samaritans who had been baptized by the deacons.
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And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

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« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2011, 11:23:42 AM »

Regarding the Orthodox Church's Teaching About the Apostolic Foundation of the Early Churches

It's our tradition that teaches that St. Paul founded the Church of Greece, not the Greek Orthodox Church, which is the Eastern Orthodox Christian Church, founded by Jesus Christ.  I think St. Paul's speaking outside of the synagogue, to the public at the Areopagos or Mars Hill (See Acts of the Apostles 16), is the essential basis to the claim.   Our tradition also teaches that the Church of Rome was founded by St. Peter.  While there were Christian communites (followers of Christ) in these areas prior to the arrival of St. Paul and St. Peter respectively, it seems the church's teaching is that their preaching and efforts brought a more permanent foundation and organization to these churches.

The Church teaches that all the Ancient Patriarchates were founded by Apostles, St. James the Brother of the Lord, the Church of Jerusalem; St. Mark, the Church of Alexandria; St. Peter, the Church of Antioch--before he traveled to Rome, by the way, (some give St. Paul equal credit for the founding of Antioch).  The Church of Cyprus was founded by St. Barnabas, who was a follower of St. Paul's, if I'm not mistaken.   For that matter, the Church of Constantinople, at the time a fishing village known as Byzantium, was founded by St. Andrew the First Called Apostle, and brother of St. Peter, but he left St. Stachys the Apostle to organize the Church of Byzantium.
Byzantium was more than a fishing village: it was a city that would withstand a seige by the Roman Empire a little over a century later for three years (193-6).  Trade was its main industry, and controlling the route between the Mediterranean and Black Seas.  I mention that only because of the widespread attempt to discredit the tradition of St. Andrew's visit, despite his travels around the Black Sea being widely accepted.
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« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2011, 07:37:54 PM »

As always, enlightening, "ialmisery."
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« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2011, 11:58:03 AM »

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I mention that only because of the widespread attempt to discredit the tradition of St. Andrew's visit, despite his travels around the Black Sea being widely accepted

yeah, I listened to Fr. Hopko on AFR the other day basically saying that there is no evidence that St. Andrew started the Byzantium Church and that the early fathers never mentioned it. Basically saying it was a nice myth, but nothing more.


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