OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 23, 2014, 03:37:53 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: I am treated like a child  (Read 6112 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
doubtingthomas
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Posts: 73



« on: November 20, 2011, 08:43:09 PM »

I have a problem, and although my parents are not Orthodox (I realize the title of the sub-category is Orthodox parenting!) I do not know who to turn to about this for advice as my friends are all biased on the issue.

I'll start by simply saying that I am 22, college graduate, etc. but I am unemployed and living at home and my parents still treat me like a child. It's in their tone of voice, word choice, and content of conversation.

I had always seen them as over-protective growing up, but the way I dealt with it was to become a quite passive person who is not able to make up his own mind on many things.

Now, however I cannot take it. It's driving me up a wall. Even simple requests such as knocking before entering my room are denied, the freedom to go to bed at a time I choose is denied (it's not as if I make a ruckus either). I have confronted them about this and they say that it's best I don't make my own decisions because "I'm not as wise as them, and they certainly know better. You may think you're smart with you're new diploma but you don't have any life experience." This is the weapon they use against any idea or point I have: they cut me down by using an age/wisdom trump card and talk down to me.

They have said that we will start treating you like an adult when you act like one: get a job, a car, a home. I find this highly offensive to my intelligence and autonomy. Being an adult isn't something that is earned. It's a state of physical and emotional maturity. I have proven I have that time and again, but that's just not good enough.

Deep down I think they don't want me to be independent or 'grow up'. My mom especially has reservations and deep insecurities about this. She has admitted that her worst fear is losing one of her children. What she doesn't realize is that she's making that fear come true by pushing me farther away from any kind of adult relationship with her every time she treats me small.

My life is that line from Matilda: "I'm smart, you're dumb; I'm big, you're little; I'm right, you're wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it."

How should I handle this?
Logged

Theotokos and St. John Forerunner:
Continually pray for us to the Pantocrator that he may show mercy
KBN1
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: EO
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 888



« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2011, 09:02:34 PM »

As infuriating as it is, your parents have created a situation where you probably won't be able to convince them that they might be wrong.  Maybe you could just pretend that your parents are old and senile and for their good you had them move into your house.  Wink 
Logged
JLatimer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 1,202



« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2011, 09:10:17 PM »

I lived with my parents for several months after college. They were not nearly as stifling as it sounds like your parents are (them telling you when to go to bed is waaaaay uncool); they treated me very respectfully, but still it is hard to be your own man, so to speak, when you live with your parents. I realized the best thing for me and them was for me to get out of there. So I just packed up and moved to the other side of the country and got a job and a room. At the very least you've got to get a job (yes, I know they can be hard to find, but the sense of independence is really worth it, even if it's a crappy job like mine).

My advice would be first to pray, pray, pray. The intercessions of St Xenia, in my experience, are very helpful with job issues, as well as family issues, so I would enlist her help.

Next, try to find a job and affordable place. It can be discouraging but keep trying.

Try not to let yourself get angry with your parents and pray for them too.

KBN is right that the situation your parents have created is sort of setting you up/self-fulfilling prophecy thing, so it's gonna be tough. But with God's help you can overcome.
Logged

1 Samuel 25:22 (KJV)
So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.
GabrieltheCelt
Hillbilly Extraordinaire
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,988


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2011, 09:22:22 PM »

 Allow me to take the Devils' advocate for a moment and point out some things from their point of view.  No disrespect, but if you ain't got a job, transportation, or home of your own, you don't have autonomy.  Period.  Your folks should respect you, but they don't owe you anything.  They've already shown that they love you by letting you move back in with them.  Have you thought what a burden (both financial and emotional) that is for them?  If you don't have a job, then who is paying your bills (food, clothes, etc...)?  I'll assume you're helping out around the house, but if not, you might wanna start there- do the dishes, mop the floor, cut the grass, put some clean on the bathroom floor and toilet, run the sweeper...  Also, are you trying to get a job?  Again, I'll assume you are but if you're not, then your job is to get a job.  Pronto.  I'm not trying to be insensitive, but respect IS earned, even between parents and adult children.  Praying for you and your family.  Smiley
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 09:25:34 PM by GabrieltheCelt » Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying
doubtingthomas
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Posts: 73



« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2011, 10:13:26 PM »

It's just frustrating to me what you just said because I hear that all the time from them, but they never listen to what I have to say haha

I buy my own clothes and a lot of my own food though since I still have my own money (not enough to move out, though).

These encroachments on my autonomy are becoming more offensive over time. My parents are now trying to tell me how I need to not see my friends here in town (friends from high school they and I have known for years). The other day my mom even said in all seriousness that I "should just accept the fact that I'm going to be living at home the rest of my life".

And I agree that respect is earned, but being treated like a regular adult is not. You don't walk into a room and treat other adults like toddlers until they earn adulthood in your eyes, right?

I wish more than anything that I could move away to a new city and find a job, but I have no funds and my parents won't help me, I've talked to them about that. Partly because they can't financially, and mostly, in my opinion, because they won't. Like I said, I think they really want me to be dependent on them still.

The situation makes me feel hopeless, that's why I'm getting advice on this.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 10:14:45 PM by doubtingthomas » Logged

Theotokos and St. John Forerunner:
Continually pray for us to the Pantocrator that he may show mercy
GabrieltheCelt
Hillbilly Extraordinaire
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,988


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2011, 10:44:02 PM »

You don't walk into a room and treat other adults like toddlers until they earn adulthood in your eyes, right?
You're right.  Why don't you bring your girlfriend over and make them regret barging in on you?  J/K... That might make things worse.  You could get a prop-up lock while you're in your room.  That'd work. 

I wish more than anything that I could move away to a new city and find a job,...
What about a temporary, menial job such as Mickey D's or the like?

The situation makes me feel hopeless, that's why I'm getting advice on this.
It might feel hopeless, but it really isn't.  We always have choices.  We might not like the choices, but they are there.  Here's a story from my past that might help you appreciate your situation a little bit more.  Once when I was in college, one of my housemates decided he wanted to move back home and so he moved out.  This made things difficult for myself and my other housemate, but we could've made it work.  But he decided it was too much and so he moved out and back home.  I met with my dad and asked if I could move back in with them for a few weeks until I found another place.  He phoned me the next day and said that I'd best hurry and find my own place or I'd be living in a cardboard box in the street.  So yeah, life is difficult and rarely goes the way we want it to go.  Just know that there are always options.  Still praying for you...
Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,917



« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2011, 10:58:17 PM »

If it's bad enough you should take any job to get out of there, and there are plenty of those jobs available, despite what others say.
Logged
FatherGiryus
You are being watched.
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Antioch - NA
Posts: 2,122



« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2011, 11:13:04 PM »

Do what I did: enlist.

I have a problem, and although my parents are not Orthodox (I realize the title of the sub-category is Orthodox parenting!) I do not know who to turn to about this for advice as my friends are all biased on the issue.

I'll start by simply saying that I am 22, college graduate, etc. but I am unemployed and living at home and my parents still treat me like a child. It's in their tone of voice, word choice, and content of conversation.

I had always seen them as over-protective growing up, but the way I dealt with it was to become a quite passive person who is not able to make up his own mind on many things.

Now, however I cannot take it. It's driving me up a wall. Even simple requests such as knocking before entering my room are denied, the freedom to go to bed at a time I choose is denied (it's not as if I make a ruckus either). I have confronted them about this and they say that it's best I don't make my own decisions because "I'm not as wise as them, and they certainly know better. You may think you're smart with you're new diploma but you don't have any life experience." This is the weapon they use against any idea or point I have: they cut me down by using an age/wisdom trump card and talk down to me.

They have said that we will start treating you like an adult when you act like one: get a job, a car, a home. I find this highly offensive to my intelligence and autonomy. Being an adult isn't something that is earned. It's a state of physical and emotional maturity. I have proven I have that time and again, but that's just not good enough.

Deep down I think they don't want me to be independent or 'grow up'. My mom especially has reservations and deep insecurities about this. She has admitted that her worst fear is losing one of her children. What she doesn't realize is that she's making that fear come true by pushing me farther away from any kind of adult relationship with her every time she treats me small.

My life is that line from Matilda: "I'm smart, you're dumb; I'm big, you're little; I'm right, you're wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it."

How should I handle this?
Logged

http://orthodoxyandrecovery.blogspot.com
The most dangerous thing about riding a tiger is the dismount.  - Indian proverb
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Warned
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 14,045


Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου

fleem
WWW
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2011, 11:19:37 PM »

Is it possible you could take on a part-time job and stay with a friend? Roommates can take some getting used to, but they do cut down on your expenses.
Logged

Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

http://spcasuncoast.org/
doubtingthomas
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Posts: 73



« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2011, 11:33:08 PM »

To address some replies:

First, I have been applying for jobs like: McDonald's, Walmart, meat cutting with the Somali refugees at the slaughter house.
I have never heard back from any of these places and I think it's just because having a college degree would make me overqualified, and even maybe more qualified than the foreman/supervisor/manager?

Second, I did try to enlist, I don't qualify for the military, enlisted or officer (long story short).

Third, this thread wasn't really a discussion on employment to begin with, however the individuals around my parents' age seemed to get caught up on that one unemployment detail....why is that? I'm searching high and low for a job, the issue is autonomy, not employment.

As much as corporations might have brainwashed you to believe it, the rights of a person are not dependent on whether or not they're employed lol

(Yes, I realize those comments are immature, sassy, and I will regret them later, but for now I'm feeling bratty, so I'll take my moment lol)
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 11:38:35 PM by doubtingthomas » Logged

Theotokos and St. John Forerunner:
Continually pray for us to the Pantocrator that he may show mercy
McB
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Inquirer
Posts: 49


« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2011, 11:58:03 PM »

To address some replies:

First, I have been applying for jobs like: McDonald's, Walmart, meat cutting with the Somali refugees at the slaughter house.
I have never heard back from any of these places and I think it's just because having a college degree would make me overqualified, and even maybe more qualified than the foreman/supervisor/manager?

Second, I did try to enlist, I don't qualify for the military, enlisted or officer (long story short).

Third, this thread wasn't really a discussion on employment to begin with, however the individuals around my parents' age seemed to get caught up on that one unemployment detail....why is that? I'm searching high and low for a job, the issue is autonomy, not employment.

As much as corporations might have brainwashed you to believe it, the rights of a person are not dependent on whether or not they're employed lol

(Yes, I realize those comments are immature, sassy, and I will regret them later, but for now I'm feeling bratty, so I'll take my moment lol)

Yeah, you are not exactly bolstering your argument here.

Just out of purest whimsical curiosity, where do you imagine your "right to autonomy" comes from?
Logged
brandb
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 212


« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2011, 12:03:17 AM »

I'm going through something very similar (you can find some posts about that here on oc.net). Undecided  I have managed to get a job, but I'm also working through the not having a car/needing to move out and be autonomous part.

Also: don't start arguments, that makes things a million times worse. Yes, I know it probably kills you that they're not acknowledging the ways they hurt you, but as much as you can help it, don't go there. They're set in their ways and you cannot prove anything to them (unfortunately). So do something for you. Find a hobby that you like that can take your mind off your situation or help you work through it on the mental/emotional side of things, since you're unable to work. For example, I've taken up running- best thing ever. If you can find ways express yourself in something that you really enjoy, it will help you cope with not being able to be as autonomous as you'd like, and it will relieve a lot of stress.
Logged
brandb
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 212


« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2011, 12:13:16 AM »

To address some replies:

First, I have been applying for jobs like: McDonald's, Walmart, meat cutting with the Somali refugees at the slaughter house.
I have never heard back from any of these places and I think it's just because having a college degree would make me overqualified, and even maybe more qualified than the foreman/supervisor/manager?

Second, I did try to enlist, I don't qualify for the military, enlisted or officer (long story short).

Third, this thread wasn't really a discussion on employment to begin with, however the individuals around my parents' age seemed to get caught up on that one unemployment detail....why is that? I'm searching high and low for a job, the issue is autonomy, not employment.

As much as corporations might have brainwashed you to believe it, the rights of a person are not dependent on whether or not they're employed lol

(Yes, I realize those comments are immature, sassy, and I will regret them later, but for now I'm feeling bratty, so I'll take my moment lol)

Yeah, you are not exactly bolstering your argument here.

Just out of purest whimsical curiosity, where do you imagine your "right to autonomy" comes from?

 It's called independence. Freedom, liberty, respect or whatever you choose to call it. What exactly is your "purest whimsical curiosity" (which is anything but pure just so we're clear on that.) implying? That a parent has to the right to shackle & bolt their child in their home and control every aspect of their life- which is pretty close to what's happening here? Because where I come from that's called abuse. Of course, living in a parents' home one should adhere to their rules, but there should be boundaries, and when a parent forces their ADULT child out of their boundaries, that's called control.

Yes, Doubtingthomas had a moment. Let him have his moment now, give him a dose of reality later. Take your banter elsewhere, please and thank you.
Logged
FormerReformer
Convertodox of the convertodox
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: I'll take (e) for "all of the above"
Posts: 2,438



WWW
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2011, 12:19:50 AM »

To address some replies:

First, I have been applying for jobs like: McDonald's, Walmart, meat cutting with the Somali refugees at the slaughter house.
I have never heard back from any of these places and I think it's just because having a college degree would make me overqualified, and even maybe more qualified than the foreman/supervisor/manager?

It might not even be that you're over-qualified. The job market right now is horrible. McDonald's has more applicants than jobs available (and when it's like that for McDonald's it's even worse all around!). I've been trying for the past two years to get a job, and my experience doesn't qualify me for more than some form of sales clerk position. This is two years of searching in several different cities and states. Horrible job market, I can only imagine how much more frustrating it would be for a college grad.

If you don't mind my asking what'd you major in?
Logged

"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,917



« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2011, 01:02:01 AM »

If you're applying at a place like McDonald's then NEVER put a college degree on your application unless you are applying for a manager's position.
Logged
McB
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Inquirer
Posts: 49


« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2011, 01:20:13 AM »

To address some replies:

First, I have been applying for jobs like: McDonald's, Walmart, meat cutting with the Somali refugees at the slaughter house.
I have never heard back from any of these places and I think it's just because having a college degree would make me overqualified, and even maybe more qualified than the foreman/supervisor/manager?

Second, I did try to enlist, I don't qualify for the military, enlisted or officer (long story short).

Third, this thread wasn't really a discussion on employment to begin with, however the individuals around my parents' age seemed to get caught up on that one unemployment detail....why is that? I'm searching high and low for a job, the issue is autonomy, not employment.

As much as corporations might have brainwashed you to believe it, the rights of a person are not dependent on whether or not they're employed lol

(Yes, I realize those comments are immature, sassy, and I will regret them later, but for now I'm feeling bratty, so I'll take my moment lol)

Yeah, you are not exactly bolstering your argument here.

Just out of purest whimsical curiosity, where do you imagine your "right to autonomy" comes from?

 It's called independence. Freedom, liberty, respect or whatever you choose to call it. What exactly is your "purest whimsical curiosity" (which is anything but pure just so we're clear on that.) implying? That a parent has to the right to shackle & bolt their child in their home and control every aspect of their life- which is pretty close to what's happening here? Because where I come from that's called abuse. Of course, living in a parents' home one should adhere to their rules, but there should be boundaries, and when a parent forces their ADULT child out of their boundaries, that's called control.

Yes, Doubtingthomas had a moment. Let him have his moment now, give him a dose of reality later. Take your banter elsewhere, please and thank you.

Brandb, I know from reading your posts elsewhere that you are going through some similar issues, and clearly that has affected your response, which I won't take personally.

I am not implying that I in any way feel that the behavior of the OP's parents is appropriate.  In fact, i think it is, as described, quite inappropriate.  But my question wasn't about the behavior of the parents, nor did it imply anything about their behavior or my opinion of it.

I frankly don't know where this supposed right to autonomy comes from and, even if it exists, how it is being violated in this case.  That's why I asked.




Logged
akimori makoto
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-heretical Christian
Jurisdiction: Fully-sik-hektic archdiocese of Australia, bro
Posts: 3,126

No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...


« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2011, 01:29:05 AM »

My best friend was in a very similar position to yours for many years. One day, he just packed his bags and got on a plane to Tokyo, remaining there to this day.

I told his mother this is what would happen, but ... Parents can blather all they want about "my house, my rules": it is my sincere hope that they don't end up pushing away what they so desperately want to keep in their own lives.
Logged

The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
Quinault
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 4,518


What about frogs? I like frogs!


« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2011, 01:31:04 AM »

If it makes you feel any better my mother treats me like a child still. I have been married for almost 15 years, I haven't lived at home since the day I wed, I have 4 (soon to be 5) children and she only raised 3, and I have never asked her for a dime (in fact she has asked ME for money).

Sometimes parents just can't accept that their baby is an adult. There really isn't anything you can do while you live at home. I am sorry, I wish I could give you helpful advice. From my experience it won't get better. Your only hope is to get out of the house and away from it.
Logged
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,423



« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2011, 01:41:29 AM »

Second, I did try to enlist, I don't qualify for the military, enlisted or officer (long story short).

Do you have some kind of health condition that this occurred?  A young man I know was told that he had to be asthma free for a year before he could enlist, for example.

Quote
Third, this thread wasn't really a discussion on employment to begin with, however the individuals around my parents' age seemed to get caught up on that one unemployment detail....why is that? I'm searching high and low for a job, the issue is autonomy, not employment.

As much as corporations might have brainwashed you to believe it, the rights of a person are not dependent on whether or not they're employed lol

Well, not to be difficult here, but some questions:

What does "autonomy" mean to you?

How does a person become "autonomous" without either a job or some other means to continue living (food, shelter etc)?  

What do you mean by "rights"?  An adult in American has the right to vote, for example, as long as he/she registers and doesn't have some kinds of convictions whether they have a job or not.  What other rights do you think that there are that apply please?  I'm trying to understand your ideas more clearly.

We had a young man living in our house for a whille.  He had a job and then just quit.  He told me that he was "taking care" of himself without it.  I pointed out to him that he wasn't, in fact, but that his food, shelter, water, electricity, heat and medical care and even his bike repairs were being taken care of by the work of other people (us and his relatives).

You wrote that you have money for your own food and clothing. Is this savings that you're using?  

I'm not "siding" with your parents here, I assure you.  I'm one myself but I can't see myself telling any of my kids that they should just realize that they'll be here all their lives.  Otoh, when the 18 y.o. is home from college if it's 2 AM and I may very well tell him to go to bed for goodness' sake. But I certainly don't treat him like we do his little brother who needs to go to bed much earlier.

With respect,

Ebor

Full disclosure:  I'm a parent of three including one 18 y.o. in college.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 01:53:12 AM by Ebor » Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
Quinault
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 4,518


What about frogs? I like frogs!


« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2011, 01:50:01 AM »

To give an example of how my mother views me:

I recently told her that she was going to have another grandchild. She thought she had the right to tell me to stop having children, no demand that I stop having children. I decided not to call her for a couple months because I didn't want to listen to the berating. I told her in the last conversation that we had that I wanted to be treated with the same respect and kindness that she would treat any of her friends (or my step siblings). My mother believes that being a parent means that you can treat your child any way you like. I allowed my eldest to call her whenever she wanted, but I didn't call her myself. Eventually when she reached out to talk to me I spoke to her. I wasn't avoiding her, I just chose not to initiate contact. In the past when I have miscarried she has been happy I did, and blamed the losses on my "angry unforgiving spirit."

I could by all accounts not speak to her based upon the 33 years of treatment I have received. In fact our priest has said that I should consider completely cutting her out of my life. (this is based on how she treats not only myself by my children and my husband) The key is to maintain respect and kindness even when you aren't getting along. Even though I didn't speak to her for months, I made sure I wasn't doing so because I was angry. I love my mother, but that doesn't mean that I have to allow her to treat me any way she would like to.

If you really put your mind to it, you will be able to find a way to get out of your parents home. This isn't about being a jobless slacker, it is about moving out and away. As long as you are at home you simply won't stand a chance of being treated like an adult. Crash on couches, do whatever you can. But don't ever ever ever EVER ask your parents for money unless you are in danger of dying. Donate plasma, sell whatever you can- but don't ask for money and move out before the new year. My husband and I have been almost penniless before. I would sell every item I possibly could before I would move back in my my parents or my in-laws. Owning just the clothes on your back with some self respect if better than having all the gadgets and being too poor to move out from under your parents roof.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 01:58:02 AM by Quinault » Logged
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2011, 01:56:22 AM »

Why don't you ask parents for money?
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Quinault
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 4,518


What about frogs? I like frogs!


« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2011, 01:59:36 AM »

If your parents can't acknowledge that you are an adult then money=manipulation and power.

There are a ton of parents out there that can lend a bit of money here and there and still see that their children are adults. But when you don't have parents like that, then you need to avoid asking for money at all costs. Otherwise situations like the OP mentions just spiral out of control. The you will end up being an adult child living at home for all eternity.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 02:01:33 AM by Quinault » Logged
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,423



« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2011, 02:00:17 AM »

One other question that just occurred to me:  You wrote that your mother is afraid of losing "one of her children".  So you have at least one brother or sister?  Are there health problems on either side?  Is there an older sibling who left or is remote?

Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2011, 02:05:04 AM »

If your parents can't acknowledge that you are an adult then money=manipulation and power.

There are a ton of parents out there that can lend a bit of money here and there and still see that their children are adults. But when you don't have parents like that, then you need to avoid asking for money at all costs. Otherwise situations like the OP mentions just spiral out of control. The you will end up being an adult child living at home for all eternity.

Yeah that makes sense. I've asked my rents in the past for some cash to help with bills, but that was when I was already moved out.

Good advice all around, sorry to hear about your past.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Quinault
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 4,518


What about frogs? I like frogs!


« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2011, 02:15:15 AM »

Man, sorry about all the typos above. Juggling a 2 and 4 year old, 2 kittens, a 6 mth preggo belly and low blood sugar is effecting my typing abilities. Tongue
Logged
brandb
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 212


« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2011, 02:28:51 AM »

To address some replies:

First, I have been applying for jobs like: McDonald's, Walmart, meat cutting with the Somali refugees at the slaughter house.
I have never heard back from any of these places and I think it's just because having a college degree would make me overqualified, and even maybe more qualified than the foreman/supervisor/manager?

Second, I did try to enlist, I don't qualify for the military, enlisted or officer (long story short).

Third, this thread wasn't really a discussion on employment to begin with, however the individuals around my parents' age seemed to get caught up on that one unemployment detail....why is that? I'm searching high and low for a job, the issue is autonomy, not employment.

As much as corporations might have brainwashed you to believe it, the rights of a person are not dependent on whether or not they're employed lol

(Yes, I realize those comments are immature, sassy, and I will regret them later, but for now I'm feeling bratty, so I'll take my moment lol)

Yeah, you are not exactly bolstering your argument here.

Just out of purest whimsical curiosity, where do you imagine your "right to autonomy" comes from?

It's called independence. Freedom, liberty, respect or whatever you choose to call it. What exactly is your "purest whimsical curiosity" (which is anything but pure just so we're clear on that.) implying? That a parent has to the right to shackle & bolt their child in their home and control every aspect of their life- which is pretty close to what's happening here? Because where I come from that's called abuse. Of course, living in a parents' home one should adhere to their rules, but there should be boundaries, and when a parent forces their ADULT child out of their boundaries, that's called control.

Yes, Doubtingthomas had a moment. Let him have his moment now, give him a dose of reality later. Take your banter elsewhere, please and thank you.
I am not implying that I in any way feel that the behavior of the OP's parents is appropriate.  In fact, i think it is, as described, quite inappropriate.  But my question wasn't about the behavior of the parents, nor did it imply anything about their behavior or my opinion of it.

I frankly don't know where this supposed right to autonomy comes from and, even if it exists, how it is being violated in this case.  That's why I asked.

^That. You could've just asked ^that rather than dissing the OP on how he "imagines" things. There is no imagining of any kind
being done here. There right and wrong ways to say things. Sorry that I have zero tolerance for sarcasm.  Tongue

What do you think he means by autonomy and why is that even important? And how in the world does it have nothing
his parents behavior? O_o It's not rocket science, I understand what he means (and it seems that other
people do too), and the point of the thread is not "the definition of autonomy". It's about the OP's [personal autonomy.
He didn't even say he had a "right to autonomy". He mentioned "autonomy" and he mentioned "rights" in 2 different
phrases. And a) He's been very specific about the things he feels he's been denied. Therefore, b) He has already defined
his definition of autonomy, I've also defined a basic "dictionary definition" of autonomy from that perspective. So... yeah...

^But I guess not of a word of that means anything.  Roll Eyes 

Logged
Quinault
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 4,518


What about frogs? I like frogs!


« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2011, 02:36:11 AM »

brandb;

Some of the issue is going to be that from an orthodox position personal autonomy is approached from a completely different perspective.

I don't think the OP is looking for autonomy so much as respect. When you respect a person you treat them kindly and don't attempt to force your views on them. The OP can't have autonomy as long as he lives with his parents period, it just isn't possible. When you are essentially still dependent upon your parents they have no reason to treat you like an adult if they don't choose to.
Logged
FatherGiryus
You are being watched.
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Antioch - NA
Posts: 2,122



« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2011, 02:44:14 AM »

I did that in 1991 because there were no jobs when I graduated.  The problem was that by the end of the year, the Japanese economy crashed as well.   Sad

My best friend was in a very similar position to yours for many years. One day, he just packed his bags and got on a plane to Tokyo, remaining there to this day.

I told his mother this is what would happen, but ... Parents can blather all they want about "my house, my rules": it is my sincere hope that they don't end up pushing away what they so desperately want to keep in their own lives.
Logged

http://orthodoxyandrecovery.blogspot.com
The most dangerous thing about riding a tiger is the dismount.  - Indian proverb
brandb
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 212


« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2011, 02:54:21 AM »

brandb;

Some of the issue is going to be that from an orthodox position personal autonomy is approached from a completely different perspective.

Finally, some clarification that makes sense. Okay, I can see how that would be related. Thank you.  Smiley

Quote
I don't think the OP is looking for autonomy so much as respect. When you respect a person you treat them kindly and don't attempt to force your views on them. The OP can't have autonomy as long as he lives with his parents period, it just isn't possible. When you are essentially still dependent upon your parents they have no reason to treat you like an adult if they don't choose to.

Exactly. Sad, but true.
Logged
doubtingthomas
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Posts: 73



« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2011, 07:36:12 AM »

One other question that just occurred to me:  You wrote that your mother is afraid of losing "one of her children".  So you have at least one brother or sister?  Are there health problems on either side?  Is there an older sibling who left or is remote?



I'm super tired so I'm going to answer this one post before bed.

I have three other siblings, all younger brothers. I'm the oldest.

Her fears are not unfounded because I was born basically five months early and shouldn't be alive. Additionally, her father was distant but very controlling when around, while her mother according to her was aloof (I don't believe that of my grandma, but oh well) so she overcompensates for the lack of control in her youth by mandating complete control over everything in adulthood (classic micro-manager) and she wants to avoid her mother's 'failures' at being close by being...a little too involved in our lives. After all of this she is understandably very afraid of losing a child because we constitute her existence as a mother and a person in general since she built her adult psychology around us.

I don't blame her for that. She's a mom after all. But it's frustrating.

Our relationship when I live apart from them is just great. I lived all by myself in Jordan for a year and I had never had a better relationship with my parents. It's just when I get back into their house that things get a little warped.

I don't like to talk about this problem actually. My philosophy is life is too short to get into petty antics like this with the people we love, but it's gotten too much to grin-and-bare recently which is why I looked for outside vindication on the forums.
Logged

Theotokos and St. John Forerunner:
Continually pray for us to the Pantocrator that he may show mercy
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2011, 07:50:11 AM »

DT I've been in the same shoes before. I made a life changing mistake that I will forever regret. I disagree with the above about parents can either choose not to treat him like an adult or not. Is he not trying to find work? Is he not minding his own business? I think he deserves respect. How many 22 year olds don't bother picking up some work and rather mooch of their parents?

He graduated college too? That demands some respect as well. I don't buy into this garbage of "My house my rules". What is this some sort of barrack? That gives parents permission to do whatever?

Parents need to learn how to respect personal space and privacy. I never had either problem growing up, but I think alot of it stems from an age of helicopter parents.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2011, 07:54:40 AM »

To address some replies:

First, I have been applying for jobs like: McDonald's, Walmart, meat cutting with the Somali refugees at the slaughter house.
I have never heard back from any of these places and I think it's just because having a college degree would make me overqualified, and even maybe more qualified than the foreman/supervisor/manager?

It might not even be that you're over-qualified. The job market right now is horrible. McDonald's has more applicants than jobs available (and when it's like that for McDonald's it's even worse all around!). I've been trying for the past two years to get a job, and my experience doesn't qualify me for more than some form of sales clerk position. This is two years of searching in several different cities and states. Horrible job market, I can only imagine how much more frustrating it would be for a college grad.

If you don't mind my asking what'd you major in?

And this kind of market places the college grad in a hard situation. Many grads have student loan debt, how are they going to cover it going into a market that really has no job prospects. 2 years is crazy bro, hopefully my unsolicited prayers for you help. Lord have mercy!
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Heorhij
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA, for now, but my heart belongs to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church
Posts: 8,576



WWW
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2011, 09:41:51 AM »

Doubtingthomas, is there any chance you could go to graduate school in a different city? That's how I "detached" myself frm my parents 30 yeas ago. I lived with them throughout college (till 1981), but then I applied to a graduate program in Moscow (my parents' apartment was in Kyiv, Ukraine), and got in. It was a splendid chance finally to begin living independently.

If your grades are good, a graduate program might accept you and pay you a scholarship. I know it's tricky and it might be disappointing to apply, but there are so many of these grduate programs in the USA, and so many sources of financing. Just a thought.
Logged

Love never fails.
Melodist
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: The Faith That Established The Universe
Jurisdiction: AOANA
Posts: 2,523



« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2011, 09:53:10 AM »

I'm sorry, but that's just how parents are. When I was your age I was a corporal in the Marine Corps and my mom would still tell me to "be careful" whenever I went anywhere. Parents are parents, and parenting is what they do. The whole concept of you growing up and becoming an adult is probably still relatively new to them. The best you can do is find a job that will support yourself and start a life of your own. The more you "do", they more there is for them to recognize. Just wait until they have their first grandchild, I don't know if I've ever met anyone who didn't say "I'm too young to be a grandparent".

Just some thoughts, even though probably not the thoughts you would like to hear.
Logged

And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,488


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2011, 01:53:31 PM »

You probably wont like what I have to say but since this is a public forum........

Sorry bud, but if you have no job, no transportation, and are living at home you are subject to their rules and the way they want to do things. Evidently, you are an adult by matter of age, but not responsibility or maturity. An adult wouldn't belly-ache about how they're being treated by people who opened their home to you and are taking care of you.

You really cant complain how they're treating you. They really dont have to do anything for you anymore. This is evenly doubly so if you dont pay rent or bills or anything. Even if you do help out, its their house and they are helping you. in fact, I think its kind of insulting to them that you're complaining about it.

I suggest finding anything and get out of there. It might not be what your degree is in (Lord knows my job has nothing to do with my Comp. Science degree) but Wal-Mart and McDonalds is hiring. Granted, McDonalds wont give you a livlihood but you'll be atleast standing on one of your two feet. I gotta say Im with your parents on this one. Grow up, get a job doing anything that pays and get a place.

You say you're an adult then act like one and take care of yourself.

PP
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 01:55:46 PM by primuspilus » Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Warned
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 14,045


Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου

fleem
WWW
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2011, 02:08:46 PM »

Doubtingthomas, I didn't mean to be offensive. I just thought that if you had a new job and a different place to live, at least for a while, it may be a small improvement compared to the stress at home. I wish you the best.
Logged

Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

http://spcasuncoast.org/
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2011, 07:11:11 PM »

They really dont have to do anything for you anymore.
So what just kick him out on the street?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 07:11:24 PM by Achronos » Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
IsmiLiora
Chronic Exaggerator
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: One step closer!
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America (GOA)
Posts: 3,434


Back by unpopular demand.


« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2011, 07:21:33 PM »

You probably wont like what I have to say but since this is a public forum........

Sorry bud, but if you have no job, no transportation, and are living at home you are subject to their rules and the way they want to do things. Evidently, you are an adult by matter of age, but not responsibility or maturity. An adult wouldn't belly-ache about how they're being treated by people who opened their home to you and are taking care of you.

You really cant complain how they're treating you. They really dont have to do anything for you anymore. This is evenly doubly so if you dont pay rent or bills or anything. Even if you do help out, its their house and they are helping you. in fact, I think its kind of insulting to them that you're complaining about it.

I suggest finding anything and get out of there. It might not be what your degree is in (Lord knows my job has nothing to do with my Comp. Science degree) but Wal-Mart and McDonalds is hiring. Granted, McDonalds wont give you a livlihood but you'll be atleast standing on one of your two feet. I gotta say Im with your parents on this one. Grow up, get a job doing anything that pays and get a place.

You say you're an adult then act like one and take care of yourself.

PP
I'm not sure what doubtingthomas's situation was, but he's not kidding about the job market out there. I applied to Wal-Mart and McDonalds. I didn't catch on for several months that I had to leave off my college degree and other former jobs, etc. I literally handed in a half empty resume, got an interview, and then promptly "scared" them. 

The woman interviewing me at Target was so flustered because she couldn't spell the words "Philippines" or "Ukraine," when she was doing my interview. Another retail place I interviewed, the people spent a good hour talking to me about my projects but said that they didn't want to hire me with all that I was planning to do since it looked like I was about to get a job.  Roll Eyes

I can't even tell you the utter shame it was when I got my most recent job, which isn't easy, but doesn't require a college degree. My boss kept telling me that I was too overqualified and that I'd hate the job. I told him that I didn't care, looked him in the eye, and said, "I've been doing this [job hunting] for a year now. I know your rate and the deal, and I'll take it if you give it to me." I had to get a job like THAT, with the manager trying to talk me out of it in the interview multiple times.

We don't know DT's story, but when I heard one more person telling me to pull myself up by the bootstraps, oh, boy, it made me even more depressed. I was already looking for 2 level (Department of Labor stats Wink ) work with my degree. My pride was out the window. And it didn't quite happen the way I needed it to at the time.

And there's a difference between abiding a curfew, maybe, and being told when to go to bed when you're TWENTY TWO. That is crazy pants no matter what the situation.

Doubting Thomas, my prayers are with you.
Logged

She's touring the facility/and picking up slack.
--
"For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow." Ecclesiastes 1:18
--
I once believed in causes too, I had my pointless point of view --
Life went on no matter who was wrong or right
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2011, 07:29:16 PM »

And there's a difference between abiding a curfew, maybe, and being told when to go to bed when you're TWENTY TWO. That is crazy pants no matter what the situation.
Finally some sanity in this thread.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Jonathan Gress
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOC/HOTCA
Posts: 3,473


« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2011, 07:34:31 PM »

This whole discussion makes me grateful I have two part-time jobs that pay above minimum wage, even though I'm over-qualified for them and am earning less than what I got from my graduate school stipend.

And I really like what Ismi said about the effect on her pride. I suspect this is part of the reason why God allows us to fall into these situations.
Logged
Jonathan Gress
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOC/HOTCA
Posts: 3,473


« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2011, 07:37:15 PM »

And pp, didn't you read what he said about already having applied for all those jobs you mention?
Logged
Heorhij
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA, for now, but my heart belongs to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church
Posts: 8,576



WWW
« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2011, 03:23:19 PM »

The woman interviewing me at Target was so flustered because she couldn't spell the words "Philippines" or "Ukraine," when she was doing my interview.

Arrrrrgh.  I read this and vividly recalled some of my non-major students who aspire Bachelor's degrees in areas like Business or Family Studies/ Community Development etc., and who absolutely cannot read or write. It's them who will soon interview (or are already interviewing) job applicants...
Logged

Love never fails.
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,488


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2011, 06:13:32 PM »

And pp, didn't you read what he said about already having applied for all those jobs you mention?
No, I didn't see that. Does not change my opinion though.

I would like to stress that this is simply my opinion. Im not trying to pontificate or anything. I do hope it works out for you DT. I truly do. I was simply offering my opinion. nothing more.

PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
GiC
Resident Atheist
Site Supporter
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Mathematician
Posts: 9,490



« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2011, 06:58:17 PM »

I also wouldn't confine myself to looking for jobs. DT obviously has a computer and free time since he's posting here, so use it to make some money. A well written application for Android or iOS always has potential, put together two or three projects, use social networking for free advertising, and see if any of them make money. I don't know how the market is where you live, but consider things like a grocery or restaurant delivery service no one has to hire you to start your own business and things like this don't require a lot of initial capital investment...just time. You can head over to www.freelancer.com and see the current offerings, it can be hard to compete with people in India and Southeast Asia for the programming jobs (though I know of people who do it), but provided you have a firm command of the English language there are several writings projects (especially academic) available, some of them potentially long-term, that require knowledge of things like Chicago and APA style guides, largely limiting those jobs to native English-speaking college graduates.

If you're a year or two looking for a job, it's time to think outside the box. Once you're on your own and supporting yourself, your parents are far more likely to start treating you like an adult.
Logged

"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox (but doubtful)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Posts: 5,744


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2011, 07:42:52 PM »

No offense, but if you do not have a job, home or any way of transportation then you are still like a child. Your parents are letting you live at their house unemployed for free. They have a right to do what they want in their house if they are letting you stay there. If you're serious about this then try getting a job, becoming more mature and even offer to pay rent. Maybe then things will get better and they'll respect you more.
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
Tags:
Pages: 1 2 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.164 seconds with 72 queries.