Author Topic: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas  (Read 2317 times)

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Offline ignatius

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Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« on: November 29, 2011, 01:31:47 AM »
Help me explain Santa Claus and St. Nicholas and the years I've spent lying to my daughter about it all?

How in the world do I do this?

Thank you for your help.

Grace and Peace!
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline biro

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2011, 01:41:37 AM »
There really is a St. Nicholas. He was bishop of Myra, and he was known for his generosity to the poor. He would help people without embarrassing them, by quietly chucking little bags of money through a window. This is how the legend got started that he gave gifts to everyone.
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Offline Quinault

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2011, 03:14:10 AM »
Our parish has a St. Nicholas event for this type of situation. A man in our parish dresses up as St. Nicholas and gives the children gifts from their godparents. So just separate St. Nicholas day from Christmas first. Then work on teaching the reality later.

My kids are the spoil sports, we have never believed in, or attempted to get our kids to believe in Santa. I was never taught to believe in Santa, so I had no inclination to have our kids do so. When you grow up poor, you figure out that all that Santa stuff has to be fake pretty quick ;)

Our kids go to the event, they know the gifts are from us or their godparents, but they aren't allowed to shatter the illusions of other people.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 03:15:28 AM by Quinault »

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2011, 03:18:27 AM »
Your daughter believes St. Nicholas is real.

He is.

There is no problem.
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if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

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Offline Jack Bauer

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2011, 03:24:21 AM »
I love St. Nicholas' story.  He's a remarkable bishop.  At one point in history, I've read that he may have hit Arinaus in the face.
http://www.stnicholasar.org/stnick.html

Funny thing is that my favorite Saints are those esteemed by the Orthodox as well as Catholics.  Up until 5 years ago I wasn't sure if he even existed.
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Offline ignatius

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2011, 08:53:38 AM »
Grace and Peace,

My daughter loves the belief of Chris Kringle and the whole elves making toys in the north pole story. I've told her several times that this is not the 'real' story and that St. Nicholas is a Saint in Heaven and that he inspires the Christmas Season of Giving but she has seen all of the normal Christmas movies and she loves the whole Christmas Season. I've ordered a book about St. Nicholas from Amazon so that she can understand the 'real' St. Nicholas but I don't want to break her heart over the matter.

Has anyone else who has converted had to deal with this?
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline ignatius

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2011, 08:59:02 AM »
I love St. Nicholas' story.  He's a remarkable bishop.  At one point in history, I've read that he may have hit Arinaus in the face.
http://www.stnicholasar.org/stnick.html

Funny thing is that my favorite Saints are those esteemed by the Orthodox as well as Catholics.  Up until 5 years ago I wasn't sure if he even existed.

As I understood it the Roman Catholic Church, in her 'wisdom', removed St. Nicholas as a Saint in 1970 along with St. Christopher and others. They no longer recognize him as a historical figure.
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline KBN1

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2011, 10:36:22 AM »
I love St. Nicholas' story.  He's a remarkable bishop.  At one point in history, I've read that he may have hit Arinaus in the face.
http://www.stnicholasar.org/stnick.html

Funny thing is that my favorite Saints are those esteemed by the Orthodox as well as Catholics.  Up until 5 years ago I wasn't sure if he even existed.

As I understood it the Roman Catholic Church, in her 'wisdom', removed St. Nicholas as a Saint in 1970 along with St. Christopher and others. They no longer recognize him as a historical figure.

http://www.stnicholascenter.org/pages/real-saint/

Quote
Since the 1968 revision of the Roman Catholic calendar, some ask if Nicholas is still really regarded as a saint.

It is helpful to remember the Feast of Our Holy Father, Nicholas, Archbishop of Myra in Lycia, the Wonder-worker, is highly ranked and unchanged in Eastern Catholic and Orthodox churches,. Nicholas, Bishop of Myra, is also listed in the Anglican Calendar of Saints and the Lutheran Festivals and Commemorations.

The 1969 Roman Catholic calendar revision did not remove Nicholas when forty saints were taken off. Commemoration of ninety other saints, including Nicholas, was made optional. This means celebration of their feast days is not required for faithful Roman Catholics. Nicholas, with all the saints in this group, is still recognized as a real saint in the Roman Catholic Church. It was even stressed that there is no doubt regarding Nicholas' authenticity.

The calendar reform, with fewer universal feasts, allows more local customs, feasts, and saints to receive special attention, as it relieves the whole Roman-rite church of having to observe saints who do not have local, cultural, or ethnic connection. This calendar reform did not remove St. Nicholas from the roster of saints, only his feast from the universal Roman liturgical calendar. This makes the Feast of St. Nicholas on December 6 optional, not obligatory, under Roman Catholic law.

The Papal Court stated, "Saints who lost their places or whose feast days were demoted from universal to optional [e.g. Nicholas] in the new edition of the liturgical calendar are still to be venerated as they were before the calendar's updating."

So, not to worry. Good Saint Nicholas is properly called a saint and, for all Christians, it is right and good to celebrate his feast day.

Offline ignatius

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2011, 12:17:10 PM »
I love St. Nicholas' story.  He's a remarkable bishop.  At one point in history, I've read that he may have hit Arinaus in the face.
http://www.stnicholasar.org/stnick.html

Funny thing is that my favorite Saints are those esteemed by the Orthodox as well as Catholics.  Up until 5 years ago I wasn't sure if he even existed.

As I understood it the Roman Catholic Church, in her 'wisdom', removed St. Nicholas as a Saint in 1970 along with St. Christopher and others. They no longer recognize him as a historical figure.

http://www.stnicholascenter.org/pages/real-saint/

Quote
Since the 1968 revision of the Roman Catholic calendar, some ask if Nicholas is still really regarded as a saint.

It is helpful to remember the Feast of Our Holy Father, Nicholas, Archbishop of Myra in Lycia, the Wonder-worker, is highly ranked and unchanged in Eastern Catholic and Orthodox churches,. Nicholas, Bishop of Myra, is also listed in the Anglican Calendar of Saints and the Lutheran Festivals and Commemorations.

The 1969 Roman Catholic calendar revision did not remove Nicholas when forty saints were taken off. Commemoration of ninety other saints, including Nicholas, was made optional. This means celebration of their feast days is not required for faithful Roman Catholics. Nicholas, with all the saints in this group, is still recognized as a real saint in the Roman Catholic Church. It was even stressed that there is no doubt regarding Nicholas' authenticity.

The calendar reform, with fewer universal feasts, allows more local customs, feasts, and saints to receive special attention, as it relieves the whole Roman-rite church of having to observe saints who do not have local, cultural, or ethnic connection. This calendar reform did not remove St. Nicholas from the roster of saints, only his feast from the universal Roman liturgical calendar. This makes the Feast of St. Nicholas on December 6 optional, not obligatory, under Roman Catholic law.

The Papal Court stated, "Saints who lost their places or whose feast days were demoted from universal to optional [e.g. Nicholas] in the new edition of the liturgical calendar are still to be venerated as they were before the calendar's updating."

So, not to worry. Good Saint Nicholas is properly called a saint and, for all Christians, it is right and good to celebrate his feast day.

Grace and Peace,

I have a Daily Prayer Guide for Catholics and on Dec 6th they venerate the Martyr St. Crispina. No mention of St. Nicholas.
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline Schultz

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2011, 12:39:16 PM »
I love St. Nicholas' story.  He's a remarkable bishop.  At one point in history, I've read that he may have hit Arinaus in the face.
http://www.stnicholasar.org/stnick.html

Funny thing is that my favorite Saints are those esteemed by the Orthodox as well as Catholics.  Up until 5 years ago I wasn't sure if he even existed.

As I understood it the Roman Catholic Church, in her 'wisdom', removed St. Nicholas as a Saint in 1970 along with St. Christopher and others. They no longer recognize him as a historical figure.

http://www.stnicholascenter.org/pages/real-saint/

Quote
Since the 1968 revision of the Roman Catholic calendar, some ask if Nicholas is still really regarded as a saint.

It is helpful to remember the Feast of Our Holy Father, Nicholas, Archbishop of Myra in Lycia, the Wonder-worker, is highly ranked and unchanged in Eastern Catholic and Orthodox churches,. Nicholas, Bishop of Myra, is also listed in the Anglican Calendar of Saints and the Lutheran Festivals and Commemorations.

The 1969 Roman Catholic calendar revision did not remove Nicholas when forty saints were taken off. Commemoration of ninety other saints, including Nicholas, was made optional. This means celebration of their feast days is not required for faithful Roman Catholics. Nicholas, with all the saints in this group, is still recognized as a real saint in the Roman Catholic Church. It was even stressed that there is no doubt regarding Nicholas' authenticity.

The calendar reform, with fewer universal feasts, allows more local customs, feasts, and saints to receive special attention, as it relieves the whole Roman-rite church of having to observe saints who do not have local, cultural, or ethnic connection. This calendar reform did not remove St. Nicholas from the roster of saints, only his feast from the universal Roman liturgical calendar. This makes the Feast of St. Nicholas on December 6 optional, not obligatory, under Roman Catholic law.

The Papal Court stated, "Saints who lost their places or whose feast days were demoted from universal to optional [e.g. Nicholas] in the new edition of the liturgical calendar are still to be venerated as they were before the calendar's updating."

So, not to worry. Good Saint Nicholas is properly called a saint and, for all Christians, it is right and good to celebrate his feast day.

Grace and Peace,

I have a Daily Prayer Guide for Catholics and on Dec 6th they venerate the Martyr St. Crispina. No mention of St. Nicholas.

Universalis, the online LoH website, lists Dec 6 as commemorating St. Nicholas, at least on their USA general calendar.

The simpe fact remains that the RCC considers St. Nicholas a saint.  Period.  You can quibble over the fact that it's wrong that he is not on the universal calendar, but it's an outright lie to say that the Vatican does not consider him a saint.
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2011, 02:39:19 PM »
Grace and Peace,

My daughter loves the belief of Chris Kringle and the whole elves making toys in the north pole story. I've told her several times that this is not the 'real' story and that St. Nicholas is a Saint in Heaven and that he inspires the Christmas Season of Giving but she has seen all of the normal Christmas movies and she loves the whole Christmas Season. I've ordered a book about St. Nicholas from Amazon so that she can understand the 'real' St. Nicholas but I don't want to break her heart over the matter.

Has anyone else who has converted had to deal with this?

Why can't she believe both?
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

Πλούσιοι επτώχευσαν και επείνασαν
Οιδε εκζητούντες τον Κύριον
Ουκ ελαττωθήσονται παντός αγαθού

Offline Cavaradossi

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2011, 02:47:33 PM »
Grace and Peace,

My daughter loves the belief of Chris Kringle and the whole elves making toys in the north pole story. I've told her several times that this is not the 'real' story and that St. Nicholas is a Saint in Heaven and that he inspires the Christmas Season of Giving but she has seen all of the normal Christmas movies and she loves the whole Christmas Season. I've ordered a book about St. Nicholas from Amazon so that she can understand the 'real' St. Nicholas but I don't want to break her heart over the matter.

Has anyone else who has converted had to deal with this?

Why can't she believe both?

Surely, you don't think that St. Nick would ever collude with those demonic elf abominations, do you?  :laugh:
Be comforted, and have faith, O Israel, for your God is infinitely simple and one, composed of no parts.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2011, 07:21:51 PM »
Grace and Peace,

My daughter loves the belief of Chris Kringle and the whole elves making toys in the north pole story. I've told her several times that this is not the 'real' story and that St. Nicholas is a Saint in Heaven and that he inspires the Christmas Season of Giving but she has seen all of the normal Christmas movies and she loves the whole Christmas Season. I've ordered a book about St. Nicholas from Amazon so that she can understand the 'real' St. Nicholas but I don't want to break her heart over the matter.

Has anyone else who has converted had to deal with this?

Why can't she believe both?

Surely, you don't think that St. Nick would ever collude with those demonic elf abominations, do you?  :laugh:

If the medieval Ukrainians can think that Christ preached to the dog-headed people, then why not?
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

Πλούσιοι επτώχευσαν και επείνασαν
Οιδε εκζητούντες τον Κύριον
Ουκ ελαττωθήσονται παντός αγαθού

Offline IXOYE

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2011, 08:03:12 PM »
An interesting article on St. Nicholas:

Facts Prove The Existence Of St. Nicholas Of Myra

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2011/11/facts-prove-existence-of-st-nicholas-of.html

Offline biro

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2011, 08:47:50 PM »
St. Nicholas is a Wonderworker, beloved in many countries. You could tell your daughter about the faith and culture of those countries, such as Russia and Greece.
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

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Offline ignatius

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2011, 07:32:36 PM »
An interesting article on St. Nicholas:

Facts Prove The Existence Of St. Nicholas Of Myra

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2011/11/facts-prove-existence-of-st-nicholas-of.html

"His scientific examination of sources and historical sites disproves the 1970’s action of the Vatican, demoting St. Nicholas as a major saint or characterization as a mythological figure." ~ Interesting... I'm not the only one who thought this.
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline Melodist

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2011, 10:38:45 PM »
Grace and Peace,

I have a Daily Prayer Guide for Catholics and on Dec 6th they venerate the Martyr St. Crispina. No mention of St. Nicholas.

I used to know a RC who grew up celebrating St Nicholas day on Dec 6th. She's only a couple of years younger than I am.
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2011, 10:49:29 PM »
Grace and Peace,

My daughter loves the belief of Chris Kringle and the whole elves making toys in the north pole story. I've told her several times that this is not the 'real' story and that St. Nicholas is a Saint in Heaven and that he inspires the Christmas Season of Giving but she has seen all of the normal Christmas movies and she loves the whole Christmas Season. I've ordered a book about St. Nicholas from Amazon so that she can understand the 'real' St. Nicholas but I don't want to break her heart over the matter.

Has anyone else who has converted had to deal with this?

Why can't she believe both?

Surely, you don't think that St. Nick would ever collude with those demonic elf abominations, do you?  :laugh:

If the medieval Ukrainians can think that Christ preached to the dog-headed people, then why not?

What about Christ peaching to the Native Americans?


Offline orthonorm

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2011, 10:55:53 PM »
Grace and Peace,

My daughter loves the belief of Chris Kringle and the whole elves making toys in the north pole story. I've told her several times that this is not the 'real' story and that St. Nicholas is a Saint in Heaven and that he inspires the Christmas Season of Giving but she has seen all of the normal Christmas movies and she loves the whole Christmas Season. I've ordered a book about St. Nicholas from Amazon so that she can understand the 'real' St. Nicholas but I don't want to break her heart over the matter.

Has anyone else who has converted had to deal with this?

Why can't she believe both?

Surely, you don't think that St. Nick would ever collude with those demonic elf abominations, do you?  :laugh:

If the medieval Ukrainians can think that Christ preached to the dog-headed people, then why not?

What about Christ peaching to the Native Americans?



Nice!
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2011, 10:59:56 PM »
Grace and Peace,

My daughter loves the belief of Chris Kringle and the whole elves making toys in the north pole story. I've told her several times that this is not the 'real' story and that St. Nicholas is a Saint in Heaven and that he inspires the Christmas Season of Giving but she has seen all of the normal Christmas movies and she loves the whole Christmas Season. I've ordered a book about St. Nicholas from Amazon so that she can understand the 'real' St. Nicholas but I don't want to break her heart over the matter.

Has anyone else who has converted had to deal with this?

Why can't she believe both?

Surely, you don't think that St. Nick would ever collude with those demonic elf abominations, do you?  :laugh:

If the medieval Ukrainians can think that Christ preached to the dog-headed people, then why not?

What about Christ peaching to the Native Americans?



More evidence from Mel Brooks that Christ came to the Amerindians: (slightly off-color I guess)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsj4s9z-EAE&feature=related
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Offline Oblio

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2011, 11:30:40 PM »

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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2011, 05:20:36 AM »
Grace and Peace,

My daughter loves the belief of Chris Kringle and the whole elves making toys in the north pole story. I've told her several times that this is not the 'real' story and that St. Nicholas is a Saint in Heaven and that he inspires the Christmas Season of Giving but she has seen all of the normal Christmas movies and she loves the whole Christmas Season. I've ordered a book about St. Nicholas from Amazon so that she can understand the 'real' St. Nicholas but I don't want to break her heart over the matter.

Has anyone else who has converted had to deal with this?

Why can't she believe both?

Surely, you don't think that St. Nick would ever collude with those demonic elf abominations, do you?  :laugh:

If the medieval Ukrainians can think that Christ preached to the dog-headed people, then why not?

What about Christ peaching to the Native Americans?



Those are the most Jewish looking Native Americans I have ever seen!  ;D
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Re: Orthodox Teaching of St. Nicholas
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2011, 10:24:38 AM »
An interesting article on St. Nicholas:

Facts Prove The Existence Of St. Nicholas Of Myra

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2011/11/facts-prove-existence-of-st-nicholas-of.html

"His scientific examination of sources and historical sites disproves the 1970’s action of the Vatican, demoting St. Nicholas as a major saint or characterization as a mythological figure." ~ Interesting... I'm not the only one who thought this.

Tell a lie enough times and people will believe it to be the truth.
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen