Author Topic: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary  (Read 1839 times)

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Offline Basil 320

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OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« on: November 20, 2011, 07:24:39 PM »
Question:  (I couldn't wait to get on "OC.net" all afternoon due to this matter.)

My GOAA parish's presiding priest was on vacation today.  My parish also has an Antiochian priest, who is a St. Vladimir Seminary graduate, as its Liturgical Assistant, assisting during Divine Services. A neighboring OCA parish was good enough to lend us one of their deacons today, to assist.  He was proficient liturgically and a fine clergyman.  However, he routinely returned to the Sanctuary through the Beautiful Gates entrance!  Not always, but frequently.  Our celebrant told me that is not a practice he ever witnessed, and that deacons do not enter the Sanctuary through the Beautiful Gates at St. Vladimir Seminary.  This deacon's parish is in the OCA's Midwest Diocese.  What is anyone's experience with this practice?  Is anyone aware of why or how a deacon would use the Beautiful Gates to enter the Sanctuary?
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Offline akimori makoto

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Re: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2011, 07:29:02 PM »
Our archbishop's deacon enters the sanctuary through the beautiful gate all the time and we are, lamentably at times, as Greek as possible in all things.

Are there particular parts of the liturgy which you have in mind as not being appropriate times for the deacon to enter through the beautiful gate?
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2011, 07:43:03 PM »
Respectfully, what difference does it make?
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Offline Basil 320

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Re: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2011, 08:01:50 PM »
I thought deacons were prohibited from using the Beautiful Gates entrance, an entrance only bishops and priests use; that's one reason why the doors to the Sanctuary on the North and South entrances are known as the "Deacon's Doors."
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Offline mike

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Re: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2011, 05:22:55 AM »
I know they use them during while  returning from main entrance.

Offline Alpo

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Re: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2011, 06:29:42 AM »
In my parish deacons seem to normally use the deacons' doors but IIRC there are some occasions when they use the Royal Doors. I guess there's some logic in when they use that or this door but how should I know what. :P

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Re: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2011, 07:54:56 AM »
GTC, it matters because he's curious.  So usually when the deacon goes through the open royal doors he is doing something... ie, carrying Holy things, like the Gospel or the diskos during the great entrance.  When he's going out to incense he goes through the deacon's door and comes back in the other deacon's door.  
And the litanies he goes out the deacon's door and comes back in, I can't remember but I don't think he goes out the royal doors for any litany, but I could be wrong, it's early/late and I need coffee to think, plus there are a lot of services to think through and I can't remember all the rubrics for them, I hope I helped.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 07:58:06 AM by username! »

Offline ialmisry

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Re: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2011, 10:08:27 AM »
AFAIR, I'll never seen such a thing, including never seeing it in the OCA.
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2011, 10:14:12 AM »
GTC, it matters because he's curious.  

 un!, you're misreading the question.  I was genuinely interested rather than dismissive of his curiosity.  ;) 
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Re: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2011, 10:53:15 AM »
GTC, it matters because he's curious.  So usually when the deacon goes through the open royal doors he is doing something... ie, carrying Holy things, like the Gospel or the diskos during the great entrance.  When he's going out to incense he goes through the deacon's door and comes back in the other deacon's door.  
And the litanies he goes out the deacon's door and comes back in, I can't remember but I don't think he goes out the royal doors for any litany, but I could be wrong, it's early/late and I need coffee to think, plus there are a lot of services to think through and I can't remember all the rubrics for them, I hope I helped.

UN! has got it, mostly.  If the deacon's carrying something, he goes through the royal doors.  If not, he uses the deacon's doors.

A breakdown of what I do:
When I do the litanies in services, I use the deacon's doors.  
At the little Entrance, I go through the Royal Doors with the gospel.  
When I go to do an open-door lesser censing at the epistle and the cherubic hymn, I go through the royal doors.  
When I take the gospel out and return from reading it, I use the royal doors.
At the Great Entrance, obviously I go through the royal doors with the paten.  
And, in several places in the OCA, deacons are blessed to distribute communion if father is the only priest and needs someone to help with communion due to numbers.  This is the case with where I'm currently serving during this, my last year of SVS, so I bring out the chalice ("In fear of God, and with faith and love, draw near") and when I bring the chalice back in.

The one, quick exception to the "deacons can go through the royal doors if they're carrying a holy object" rule is this: At the end of the troparion/kontakion sequence following "Come Let Us Worship," I get a blessing and "end around" through the royal doors to go to the front of the icon of Christ, finish father's sentence ("For holy art thou, O our God, and unto thee we ascribe glory, to the Fr, the Son, and the HS, now and ever...") and as I finish w/"and unto ages of ages", I rotate around to the people and go back through the royal doors.

Ultimately, it's a difference of practice (I was surprised by your OP, Basil, as I can't conceive of how a deacon could get through a liturgy easily w/out using the royal doors), but that's how I've been trained to do it.

Wow; been a while since I've posted here.  

Hope it helps!
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 10:55:34 AM by DavidBryan »
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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2011, 11:56:28 AM »
our deacon's doors have a bunch of stuff behind them so they can't use them...(although visiting deacon's/priests have tried...with catostrophic results!) we have open sides so they can just go around if need be...

Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2011, 12:04:20 PM »
GTC, it matters because he's curious.  So usually when the deacon goes through the open royal doors he is doing something... ie, carrying Holy things, like the Gospel or the diskos during the great entrance.  When he's going out to incense he goes through the deacon's door and comes back in the other deacon's door.  
And the litanies he goes out the deacon's door and comes back in, I can't remember but I don't think he goes out the royal doors for any litany, but I could be wrong, it's early/late and I need coffee to think, plus there are a lot of services to think through and I can't remember all the rubrics for them, I hope I helped.

UN! has got it, mostly.  If the deacon's carrying something, he goes through the royal doors.  If not, he uses the deacon's doors.

A breakdown of what I do:
When I do the litanies in services, I use the deacon's doors.  
At the little Entrance, I go through the Royal Doors with the gospel.  
When I go to do an open-door lesser censing at the epistle and the cherubic hymn, I go through the royal doors.  
When I take the gospel out and return from reading it, I use the royal doors.
At the Great Entrance, obviously I go through the royal doors with the paten.  
And, in several places in the OCA, deacons are blessed to distribute communion if father is the only priest and needs someone to help with communion due to numbers.  This is the case with where I'm currently serving during this, my last year of SVS, so I bring out the chalice ("In fear of God, and with faith and love, draw near") and when I bring the chalice back in.

The one, quick exception to the "deacons can go through the royal doors if they're carrying a holy object" rule is this: At the end of the troparion/kontakion sequence following "Come Let Us Worship," I get a blessing and "end around" through the royal doors to go to the front of the icon of Christ, finish father's sentence ("For holy art thou, O our God, and unto thee we ascribe glory, to the Fr, the Son, and the HS, now and ever...") and as I finish w/"and unto ages of ages", I rotate around to the people and go back through the royal doors.

Ultimately, it's a difference of practice (I was surprised by your OP, Basil, as I can't conceive of how a deacon could get through a liturgy easily w/out using the royal doors), but that's how I've been trained to do it.

Wow; been a while since I've posted here.  

Hope it helps!

This is the practice as I've observed it in the OCA and ROCOR.
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Offline pensateomnia

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Re: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2011, 12:16:31 PM »
Ultimately, it's a difference of practice (I was surprised by your OP, Basil, as I can't conceive of how a deacon could get through a liturgy easily w/out using the royal doors), but that's how I've been trained to do it.

I think the OP was implying that the deacon in question used the Beautiful Gates even when just going in/out for litanies.

The other things you mention (going through them at the Great Entrance, etc) are obviously called for.
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Offline Basil 320

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Re: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2011, 12:31:32 PM »
username, Reply No. 6 and DavidBryan, Reply no. 9,

Thank you very much.  This is all news to me and the logic to it is interesting.
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2011, 12:49:56 PM »
GTC, it matters because he's curious.  So usually when the deacon goes through the open royal doors he is doing something... ie, carrying Holy things, like the Gospel or the diskos during the great entrance.  When he's going out to incense he goes through the deacon's door and comes back in the other deacon's door.  
And the litanies he goes out the deacon's door and comes back in, I can't remember but I don't think he goes out the royal doors for any litany, but I could be wrong, it's early/late and I need coffee to think, plus there are a lot of services to think through and I can't remember all the rubrics for them, I hope I helped.

UN! has got it, mostly.  If the deacon's carrying something, he goes through the royal doors.  If not, he uses the deacon's doors.

A breakdown of what I do:
When I do the litanies in services, I use the deacon's doors.  
At the little Entrance, I go through the Royal Doors with the gospel.  
When I go to do an open-door lesser censing at the epistle and the cherubic hymn, I go through the royal doors.  
When I take the gospel out and return from reading it, I use the royal doors.
At the Great Entrance, obviously I go through the royal doors with the paten.  
And, in several places in the OCA, deacons are blessed to distribute communion if father is the only priest and needs someone to help with communion due to numbers.  This is the case with where I'm currently serving during this, my last year of SVS, so I bring out the chalice ("In fear of God, and with faith and love, draw near") and when I bring the chalice back in.

The one, quick exception to the "deacons can go through the royal doors if they're carrying a holy object" rule is this: At the end of the troparion/kontakion sequence following "Come Let Us Worship," I get a blessing and "end around" through the royal doors to go to the front of the icon of Christ, finish father's sentence ("For holy art thou, O our God, and unto thee we ascribe glory, to the Fr, the Son, and the HS, now and ever...") and as I finish w/"and unto ages of ages", I rotate around to the people and go back through the royal doors.

Ultimately, it's a difference of practice (I was surprised by your OP, Basil, as I can't conceive of how a deacon could get through a liturgy easily w/out using the royal doors), but that's how I've been trained to do it.

Wow; been a while since I've posted here.  

Hope it helps!

This is the practice as I've observed it in the OCA and ROCOR.

Same goes in ACROD.

Offline username!

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Re: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2011, 03:09:33 PM »
Thanks DavidByran, that is what my mind couldn't put into order after a night of no-sleep early this morning!

Offline mildert

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Re: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2011, 08:20:11 AM »
GTC, it matters because he's curious.  So usually when the deacon goes through the open royal doors he is doing something... ie, carrying Holy things, like the Gospel or the diskos during the great entrance.  When he's going out to incense he goes through the deacon's door and comes back in the other deacon's door.  
And the litanies he goes out the deacon's door and comes back in, I can't remember but I don't think he goes out the royal doors for any litany, but I could be wrong, it's early/late and I need coffee to think, plus there are a lot of services to think through and I can't remember all the rubrics for them, I hope I helped.

UN! has got it, mostly.  If the deacon's carrying something, he goes through the royal doors.  If not, he uses the deacon's doors.

A breakdown of what I do:
When I do the litanies in services, I use the deacon's doors.  
At the little Entrance, I go through the Royal Doors with the gospel.  
When I go to do an open-door lesser censing at the epistle and the cherubic hymn, I go through the royal doors.  
When I take the gospel out and return from reading it, I use the royal doors.
At the Great Entrance, obviously I go through the royal doors with the paten.  
And, in several places in the OCA, deacons are blessed to distribute communion if father is the only priest and needs someone to help with communion due to numbers.  This is the case with where I'm currently serving during this, my last year of SVS, so I bring out the chalice ("In fear of God, and with faith and love, draw near") and when I bring the chalice back in.

The one, quick exception to the "deacons can go through the royal doors if they're carrying a holy object" rule is this: At the end of the troparion/kontakion sequence following "Come Let Us Worship," I get a blessing and "end around" through the royal doors to go to the front of the icon of Christ, finish father's sentence ("For holy art thou, O our God, and unto thee we ascribe glory, to the Fr, the Son, and the HS, now and ever...") and as I finish w/"and unto ages of ages", I rotate around to the people and go back through the royal doors.

Ultimately, it's a difference of practice (I was surprised by your OP, Basil, as I can't conceive of how a deacon could get through a liturgy easily w/out using the royal doors), but that's how I've been trained to do it.

Wow; been a while since I've posted here.  

Hope it helps!
I've been taught that during Bright Week, all Deacon's exits and entrances are via the Royal Gates.

In XC

Deacon Philip
In XC,

Deacon Philip

Offline ilyazhito

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Re: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2011, 10:41:06 AM »
GTC, it matters because he's curious.  So usually when the deacon goes through the open royal doors he is doing something... ie, carrying Holy things, like the Gospel or the diskos during the great entrance.  When he's going out to incense he goes through the deacon's door and comes back in the other deacon's door.  
And the litanies he goes out the deacon's door and comes back in, I can't remember but I don't think he goes out the royal doors for any litany, but I could be wrong, it's early/late and I need coffee to think, plus there are a lot of services to think through and I can't remember all the rubrics for them, I hope I helped.
He does go through the royal doors for the short litany before the Trisagion. He re-enters only after he exclaims " ...and unto ages of ages!"

Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2011, 05:02:30 PM »
GTC, it matters because he's curious.  So usually when the deacon goes through the open royal doors he is doing something... ie, carrying Holy things, like the Gospel or the diskos during the great entrance.  When he's going out to incense he goes through the deacon's door and comes back in the other deacon's door.  
And the litanies he goes out the deacon's door and comes back in, I can't remember but I don't think he goes out the royal doors for any litany, but I could be wrong, it's early/late and I need coffee to think, plus there are a lot of services to think through and I can't remember all the rubrics for them, I hope I helped.

UN! has got it, mostly.  If the deacon's carrying something, he goes through the royal doors.  If not, he uses the deacon's doors.

A breakdown of what I do:
When I do the litanies in services, I use the deacon's doors.  
At the little Entrance, I go through the Royal Doors with the gospel.  
When I go to do an open-door lesser censing at the epistle and the cherubic hymn, I go through the royal doors.  
When I take the gospel out and return from reading it, I use the royal doors.
At the Great Entrance, obviously I go through the royal doors with the paten.  
And, in several places in the OCA, deacons are blessed to distribute communion if father is the only priest and needs someone to help with communion due to numbers.  This is the case with where I'm currently serving during this, my last year of SVS, so I bring out the chalice ("In fear of God, and with faith and love, draw near") and when I bring the chalice back in.

The one, quick exception to the "deacons can go through the royal doors if they're carrying a holy object" rule is this: At the end of the troparion/kontakion sequence following "Come Let Us Worship," I get a blessing and "end around" through the royal doors to go to the front of the icon of Christ, finish father's sentence ("For holy art thou, O our God, and unto thee we ascribe glory, to the Fr, the Son, and the HS, now and ever...") and as I finish w/"and unto ages of ages", I rotate around to the people and go back through the royal doors.

Ultimately, it's a difference of practice (I was surprised by your OP, Basil, as I can't conceive of how a deacon could get through a liturgy easily w/out using the royal doors), but that's how I've been trained to do it.

Wow; been a while since I've posted here.  

Hope it helps!
I've been taught that during Bright Week, all Deacon's exits and entrances are via the Royal Gates.

In XC

Deacon Philip

This, also, matched what I have observed in the OCA and ROCOR.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 05:02:57 PM by Benjamin the Red »
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Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2011, 07:08:43 PM »
GTC, it matters because he's curious.  So usually when the deacon goes through the open royal doors he is doing something... ie, carrying Holy things, like the Gospel or the diskos during the great entrance.  When he's going out to incense he goes through the deacon's door and comes back in the other deacon's door.  
And the litanies he goes out the deacon's door and comes back in, I can't remember but I don't think he goes out the royal doors for any litany, but I could be wrong, it's early/late and I need coffee to think, plus there are a lot of services to think through and I can't remember all the rubrics for them, I hope I helped.

UN! has got it, mostly.  If the deacon's carrying something, he goes through the royal doors.  If not, he uses the deacon's doors.

A breakdown of what I do:
When I do the litanies in services, I use the deacon's doors.  
At the little Entrance, I go through the Royal Doors with the gospel.  
When I go to do an open-door lesser censing at the epistle and the cherubic hymn, I go through the royal doors.  
When I take the gospel out and return from reading it, I use the royal doors.
At the Great Entrance, obviously I go through the royal doors with the paten.  
And, in several places in the OCA, deacons are blessed to distribute communion if father is the only priest and needs someone to help with communion due to numbers.  This is the case with where I'm currently serving during this, my last year of SVS, so I bring out the chalice ("In fear of God, and with faith and love, draw near") and when I bring the chalice back in.

The one, quick exception to the "deacons can go through the royal doors if they're carrying a holy object" rule is this: At the end of the troparion/kontakion sequence following "Come Let Us Worship," I get a blessing and "end around" through the royal doors to go to the front of the icon of Christ, finish father's sentence ("For holy art thou, O our God, and unto thee we ascribe glory, to the Fr, the Son, and the HS, now and ever...") and as I finish w/"and unto ages of ages", I rotate around to the people and go back through the royal doors.

Ultimately, it's a difference of practice (I was surprised by your OP, Basil, as I can't conceive of how a deacon could get through a liturgy easily w/out using the royal doors), but that's how I've been trained to do it.

Wow; been a while since I've posted here.  

Hope it helps!

This is the practice as I've observed it in the OCA and ROCOR.

Same goes in ACROD.

Also for UOC of USA.
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Offline arimethea

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Re: OCA Deacon Uses Beautiful Gates Entrance to Sanctuary
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2011, 10:02:56 PM »
Just imagine what he would have been thinking if a bishop was serving, the deacons go in out of the Beautiful Gates a bunch more times.
Joseph