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Author Topic: Pope Shenouda visited Houston last weekend...  (Read 1209 times) Average Rating: 0
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yBeayf
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« on: August 24, 2004, 03:44:53 PM »

And I got to see him! He was in town for the consecration of the new Coptic church that has gone up about five minutes from my house. I managed to attend the Saturday night raising of incense and witnessed the arrival of the Pope; when he settled down to give a long lecture in Arabic is when I left, and I wasn't able to attend the consecration Sunday morning Sad . Fortunately, they'll be selling DVDs of it ^_^.

How elaborate are Coptic Papal liturgies? Is it in any way comparable to the complexity of pre-VII Catholic Papal liturgies? I did notice that the Pope's entrance into the Church was more elaborate than the equivalent EOx ceremony (of a chief hierarch entering), but much less than the Catholic one.
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Stavro
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2004, 07:08:48 PM »

I was in the Church for the three days and I attended the English sermon on Friday and the consecration of the Altar and Icons on Sunday. It was a true blessing and it shows his enourmous popularity of H.H. among the Church congregation.  
As for the liturgy in the presence of the Pope, there are hymns and responses added to the liturgy, but sometimes the Pope chooses to omit them because they can extend the liturgy significantly. The Pope is most of the time welcomed with "Eflogemenous" hymn that is chanted on Palm Sunday, and the deacons and priests and bishops and metropolitans go outside the church to receive the Pope in two lines.
I asked this question on another forum to prepare for the Pope's visit, and I got this reply from a dedicated deacon in the Copitc Church:

There are a host of hymns and replies specific to the presence of the Patriarch.

Probably the most elaborate is "Kalwc" which is a hymn welcoming the Pope from a safe journey. The hymn has components said in many different tunes such as
tenoueh `ncwk
teoi `nhikanoc
eueerapoleuin
and the festal gospel reply.

There is also a selection of hymns which can be said after the Coptic Pauline epistle such as:
yagapy
Piehmot gar
Senouda tou makariw
sa nirompi
and the hymn of the twelve virtues,

There are also additional doxologies, verses of the cymbals verses, Praxis response, Psalm response, and a selection of altar responses.

Having listed these it is fair to say that most churches will opt not to say these hymns given the time restrictions. It is also safe to say that H.H. will probably cut short any well meaning deacons who chant one of the longer replies or hymns.

Many congregations will probably opt for one hymn and may chant a selection of other hymns at times where time is not a factor such as when waiting for the pope to arrive or other opporunities where there is some "dead time".

I would also be interested in reading what other congregations are planning whether similar or contrary to this.


God Bless,
Stavro
« Last Edit: August 24, 2004, 07:12:37 PM by Stavro » Logged

In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border. (Isaiah 19:19)

" God forbid I should see the face of Judah or listen to his blasphemy" (Gerontius, Archmanidrite of the monastery of St. Melania)
yBeayf
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2004, 08:49:22 PM »

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I was in the Church for the three days and I attended the English sermon on Friday and the consecration of the Altar and Icons on Sunday.
Cool... you may have seen me on Saturday night. I would have been the big white guy standing somewhere off to the left.

And there was an English sermon on Friday? Doh.
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arimethea
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« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2004, 08:59:43 PM »

I am curious on what made the entry of the Pope so elaborate? Maybe I have never see a true entry by a Roman Hierarch but what I have seen doesn't seem all that elaborate, the just walk in with the altar boys, deacons and priest leading the way.

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Joseph
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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2004, 11:12:51 PM »

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I am curious on what made the entry of the Pope so elaborate? Maybe I have never see a true entry by a Roman Hierarch but what I have seen doesn't seem all that elaborate, the just walk in with the altar boys, deacons and priest leading the way.

Well, Pope Shenouda's entrance wasn't *that* elaborate, but it did have a bit more ceremony compared to the entrance of an EOx chief hierarch. The Roman Papal entrance (at least according to the pre-Vatican II ceremony) was what I was alluding to in my first post, and depending on the occasion could range from something similar to a simple pontifical entrance to something like this or this.
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arimethea
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2004, 12:53:02 AM »

could you describe it to us? Many of us have never seen what you are refering to so a description might be nice.
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Joseph
Tags: Coptic Orthodox Church Texas Pope Shenouda 
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