Author Topic: 10k Converts to Syriac OC in Brazil?  (Read 3969 times)

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Offline ignatios

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10k Converts to Syriac OC in Brazil?
« on: November 17, 2011, 06:03:22 PM »
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 06:04:03 PM by ignatios »

Offline Alpo

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Re: 10k Converts to Syriac OC in Brazil?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2011, 06:26:45 PM »
I wonder what rite they will adopt if that's true. Novus Ordo will probably be out of question but I wonder whether they will be arabized or retain the Roman rite.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: 10k Converts to Syriac OC in Brazil?
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2011, 06:29:13 PM »
What is odd is that the converts are coming together at once from two different directions?

Btw, the Syriacs are not Arabs.  They predate us.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: 10k Converts to Syriac OC in Brazil?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2011, 06:33:02 PM »
Btw, the Syriacs are not Arabs.  They predate us.

Pardon my ignorance. :angel: Am I however wrong thinking that past centuries have pretty arabized Syriac culture?

Offline ialmisry

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Re: 10k Converts to Syriac OC in Brazil?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2011, 06:46:14 PM »
Btw, the Syriacs are not Arabs.  They predate us.

Pardon my ignorance. :angel: Am I however wrong thinking that past centuries have pretty arabized Syriac culture?
No, it hasn't.  We had a lot of culture in common to begin with.  The Syriacs, however are mostly among the Kurds and Turks now, and other isolated places (though they do have a presence in the cities). On a boat trip from Arwad to Tartus, I was pleased to overhear some speaking Syriac amongst themselves.  The retention of Swedish culture in a see of Finns might make an apt comparison, and the failure of the Swedes to "Swedicize" the Finns.

Btw, I say this because there has been a lot of pressure to Arabicize them: in Ma'lula, the Church services are in Arabic, although the people speak Aramaic.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 06:47:49 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Alpo

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Re: 10k Converts to Syriac OC in Brazil?
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2011, 06:48:56 PM »
Thank you for the information. I am currently trying to work out my Master's thesis on immigrant Muslims in Finland so I'm always interested to hear about these kind of things.

Offline ignatios

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Re: 10k Converts to Syriac OC in Brazil?
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2011, 06:55:17 PM »
I can't find any independent corroboration of this event, and seeing that the article didn't even report the number of converts properly...

Offline mike

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Re: 10k Converts to Syriac OC in Brazil?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2011, 06:56:39 PM »
The SOC allowed the WR (IDK how it's now).

Offline dzheremi

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Re: 10k Converts to Syriac OC in Brazil?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2011, 08:10:24 PM »
Do you have a source for that, Michal? All the information that I've been able to find on the Syriac Orthodox Church in Brazil seems to indicate that they use the Syriac liturgy in common with the Syriac Orthodox churches elsewhere.

Brazilian TV report on Syriac Orthodox in Sao Paulo

Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: 10k Converts to Syriac OC in Brazil?
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2011, 08:32:20 PM »
The Syriac OC in Brazil is comprised of a few immigrants and a number of converts. In the video we see the long-time representative of the Syriac Patriarchate, Fr. Gabriel.

There is a *big* group of converts though who used the name Syriac without authorization for many years. As far as I know, they had contacted the Syriac Patriarchate and were ordered to start discrete Christian missions and would be under observation during this period. They did not respect the order and introduced themselves as due representatives of the Syriac church despite Fr. Gabriel being the only legitimate one. That did not prevent them even from joining the Brazilian Council of Churches in the name of the Syriac Church.

When I denounced this farse on the internet, they started sending me hate mail and even threatened to put me on legal trial. Had it not been for the kind intervention of a State Attorney from S. Paulo they probably would have continued their online aggressions. It seems that once the news spread that they were perpretating a lie questions started being asked and the answers could not be given.

After some time of silence, they reappeared with a real document acknowledging their reception in the Syriac Church. *Today* they are really members of that communion.

I have not found any news in Portuguese about that. Considering their past, I would not be surprised to learn these numbers are "exagerated". But it could be true too. It is an unfortunate reality in Brazil that "fake Orthodox" - and even fake OOs - are far more pro-active in "missions" than the canonical Churches. I really hope that their acceptance in the Syriac church turns out to be something good, and not something that will backfire in some years against the Syriacs themselves.

And the translation they show in the video of the Lord's Prayer is the New Age interpretation of the Aramaic translation of the original Greek text.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 08:42:36 PM by Fabio Leite »
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Offline Hiwot

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Re: 10k Converts to Syriac OC in Brazil?
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2011, 08:33:33 PM »
Btw, the Syriacs are not Arabs.  They predate us.

Pardon my ignorance. :angel: Am I however wrong thinking that past centuries have pretty arabized Syriac culture?
No, it hasn't.  We had a lot of culture in common to begin with.  The Syriacs, however are mostly among the Kurds and Turks now, and other isolated places (though they do have a presence in the cities). On a boat trip from Arwad to Tartus, I was pleased to overhear some speaking Syriac amongst themselves.  The retention of Swedish culture in a see of Finns might make an apt comparison, and the failure of the Swedes to "Swedicize" the Finns.

Btw, I say this because there has been a lot of pressure to Arabicize them: in Ma'lula, the Church services are in Arabic, although the people speak Aramaic.

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Offline dzheremi

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Re: 10k Converts to Syriac OC in Brazil?
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2011, 08:52:09 PM »
in Ma'lula, the Church services are in Arabic

Say it ain't so!  :-\

Offline mike

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Re: 10k Converts to Syriac OC in Brazil?
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2011, 10:46:34 AM »
Do you have a source for that, Michal? All the information that I've been able to find on the Syriac Orthodox Church in Brazil seems to indicate that they use the Syriac liturgy in common with the Syriac Orthodox churches elsewhere.

Brazilian TV report on Syriac Orthodox in Sao Paulo

I meant they used to have some WRO Parishes.