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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #90 on: December 05, 2011, 09:47:24 AM »

Eastern Orthodox Church is in Union with victorious Eastern Orthodox Church from heaven with God, with Jesus, with truth, with Eternal life. See , in heaven there is no protestant Church as Luther has no pwoer there and as Apostle Luke was painter of icons.

So to come to an union with errors , Eastern orthodox Church may have to sever its union with Victoriuous Eastern orthodox Church from Heaven, with Apostles, it may have to condemn Apostle Luke for painting icons, with truth and such, out of false love. True love is the love of God, is the love for good for your neighbour.

This is why ecumenism is perceived as error. Anyhow it is an utopy, the union in errors since love of God is sincere and gates of Hell will not prevail.

Translation in English.

Eastern Orthodox Church is in union with great life in after life. If you want a palace in after life here you can have it. To come in union with trouble in after life , with mortality it may have to sever union with good life and immortality. Nobody wants this.

I prefer disunity in Heaven rather than unity in hell. If I can choose, a great life in after life and disunity is preferrable to trouble in after life and unity.
So, according to you, all Protestants are going to hell?
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« Reply #91 on: December 05, 2011, 12:32:40 PM »

Eastern Orthodox Church is in Union with victorious Eastern Orthodox Church from heaven with God, with Jesus, with truth, with Eternal life. See , in heaven there is no protestant Church as Luther has no pwoer there and as Apostle Luke was painter of icons.

So to come to an union with errors , Eastern orthodox Church may have to sever its union with Victoriuous Eastern orthodox Church from Heaven, with Apostles, it may have to condemn Apostle Luke for painting icons, with truth and such, out of false love. True love is the love of God, is the love for good for your neighbour.

This is why ecumenism is perceived as error. Anyhow it is an utopy, the union in errors since love of God is sincere and gates of Hell will not prevail.

Translation in English.

Eastern Orthodox Church is in union with great life in after life. If you want a palace in after life here you can have it. To come in union with trouble in after life , with mortality it may have to sever union with good life and immortality. Nobody wants this.

I prefer disunity in Heaven rather than unity in hell. If I can choose, a great life in after life and disunity is preferrable to trouble in after life and unity.
So, according to you, all Protestants are going to hell?
Thats pretty dangerous to think if that's what is being stated. Last time I looked, God's in charge of that department....

PP
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« Reply #92 on: December 08, 2011, 03:18:04 AM »

In My understanding Word of God, Genesis 15:1, Zechariah 12:1 that took the name of Jesus on incarnation, that is Messiah and Christ , is in charge. So Word of God that is in charge left us the instructions from John 3:3 and John 3:5.

JN 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Most certainly, I tell you, unless one is born anew,{The word translated "anew" here and in John 3:7 (anothen) also means "again" and "from above".} he can't see the Kingdom of God."
JN 3:4 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"
JN 3:5 Jesus answered, "Most certainly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can't enter into the Kingdom of God!


John 3:5 specifying water and spirit , denies Protestant interpretation that being born again means to say several words. This interpretation did not exist before 1500.

According with my understanding John 3:3 and John 3:5 , only baptized people can see heaven thus Salvation Army and other Protestant denominations that renounced baptism renounced Heaven as well. Muslims can not see Heaven and eastern religions and so forth if they are not baptized.

Now baptism can happen even after death , Jesus is eastern orthodox priest and can baptize after death. So theoretically we can pray for all people in Hell to be baptized, communed and confessed and this has a chance to happen.

Some people say that there is no salvation outside Eastern orthodox Church because baptism means God comming and making the person die as child of Adam and be born as child of God so even if you do what you believe to be a baptism, if God does not come because of errors in doctrine, because lack of Apostolic succesion or because other reasons and if the baptism is not valid then bad news regarding Heaven. Some other people say that baptism of RC is valid however because of doctrinal errors while in Heaven, RC will stay at a greater distance from God and they say that protestant baptism is invalid so all protestants can not reach Heaven. Some other people say that even Protestants can reach Heaven however they stay even further away than Roman Catholics from God.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 03:28:20 AM by pasadi97 » Logged
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« Reply #93 on: December 08, 2011, 03:26:08 AM »

, Jesus is eastern orthodox priest . .

I am sorry but I can not stop laughing right now. laugh
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« Reply #94 on: December 08, 2011, 03:29:09 AM »

Then you need to read Hebrews.

HEB 7:17 for it is testified, "You are a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek."{Psalm 110:4}
.....
HEB 7:21 (for they indeed have been made priests without an oath), but he with an oath by him that says of him, "The Lord swore and will not change his mind, 'You are a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek.'"{Psalm 110:4}
HEB 7:22 By so much, Jesus has become the collateral of a better covenant.
HEB 7:23 Many, indeed, have been made priests, because they are hindered from continuing by death.
HEB 7:24 But he, because he lives forever, has his priesthood unchangeable.

Please do no treat these things in  a wrong way since they are serious.

The big problem of Protestantism is that if they reach Heaven, they renounced eternal life replacing Holy Communion given by Church from the time of Apostles with symbols, words, nothing. John 6:53

The confidence that God comes to Eastern orthodox Church was boosted by the fact that I was told by somebody serving as altar boy at OCA that while in altar he heard people praying, that I believe to be angels and that all bad thought dissapeared, since sick angels can not enter altar not being able to stand the presence of God.Also he said he felt an extraordinary happiness. So if you have boys, entering in Altar and serving at the altar boy is a great plus for serving God and a great joyfull experience. Altar in Eastern Orthodox Church means Heaven and God and angels do come there so the Altar boys are in presence of God that comes to prepare Holy Communion for eternal life. Also hearing/seeing angels, feeling happiness, having ONLY good thoughts and witnessing miracles will boost their faith for entire life.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 03:59:26 AM by pasadi97 » Logged
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« Reply #95 on: December 08, 2011, 03:34:46 AM »

Then you need to read Hebrews.
HEB 7:17 for it is testified, "You are a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek."{Psalm 110:4}

Please do no treat these things in  a wrong way since they are serious.

dear pasadi, looking at it the way you do, it sounds perfectly logical.. God bless you,please forgive this foolish woman. ignore me, and please continue...
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 03:36:28 AM by Hiwot » Logged

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« Reply #96 on: December 08, 2011, 03:49:53 AM »

May God bless you and help every one of us avoid mistakes. Anyhow I took for granted that everybody knows that Jesus is priest which proved to be a mistake. Even myself I figured this out several years ago. So next time I may add right away the verse.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 03:52:43 AM by pasadi97 » Logged
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« Reply #97 on: December 08, 2011, 09:46:45 AM »

May God bless you and help every one of us avoid mistakes. Anyhow I took for granted that everybody knows that Jesus is priest which proved to be a mistake. Even myself I figured this out several years ago. So next time I may add right away the verse.
You do know that the phrase "Eastern Orthodox" is never used in the Bible?

Additionally, you may wish to allow Jesus to be the authoritative interpreter of His teaching on baptism and heaven.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 09:48:42 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #98 on: December 08, 2011, 02:41:09 PM »

Then you need to read Hebrews.

HEB 7:17 for it is testified, "You are a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek."{Psalm 110:4}
.....
HEB 7:21 (for they indeed have been made priests without an oath), but he with an oath by him that says of him, "The Lord swore and will not change his mind, 'You are a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek.'"{Psalm 110:4}
HEB 7:22 By so much, Jesus has become the collateral of a better covenant.
HEB 7:23 Many, indeed, have been made priests, because they are hindered from continuing by death.
HEB 7:24 But he, because he lives forever, has his priesthood unchangeable.

If you are working on an English version of the Scriptures, let me know what it is going to take to get it published.

This HAS to happen.

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« Reply #99 on: December 16, 2011, 04:59:56 PM »

Then you need to read Hebrews.

HEB 7:17 for it is testified, "You are a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek."{Psalm 110:4}
.....
HEB 7:21 (for they indeed have been made priests without an oath), but he with an oath by him that says of him, "The Lord swore and will not change his mind, 'You are a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek.'"{Psalm 110:4}
HEB 7:22 By so much, Jesus has become the collateral of a better covenant.
HEB 7:23 Many, indeed, have been made priests, because they are hindered from continuing by death.
HEB 7:24 But he, because he lives forever, has his priesthood unchangeable.


Can you tell us what translation of the New Testament this is from, please?

Quote
The big problem of Protestantism is that if they reach Heaven, they renounced eternal life replacing Holy Communion given by Church from the time of Apostles with symbols, words, nothing. John 6:53

Just what do you really know about any sort of Christian Church that comes from the Protestant Reformation?  How do you know what they have renounced or retained?  I certainly did no such thing; we have Holy Communion in the Anglican Churches. 

You titled this thread a "Debate".  Well, a debate is not posting vague suggestions and unsupported statements and not answering the objections or counter arguments of those who do not agree.  Why did you call this a "debate" if you're not going to interact with other people seriously and haven't shown that you really know much at all about any form of Protestant Christianity. It's not one monolithic block.

Quote
The confidence that God comes to Eastern orthodox Church was boosted by the fact that I was told by somebody serving as altar boy at OCA that while in altar he heard people praying, that I believe to be angels and that all bad thought dissapeared, since sick angels can not enter altar not being able to stand the presence of God.Also he said he felt an extraordinary happiness 

You have confidence and it's based on something that you were told by someone else about an unnamed person and what he supposedly experienced.  Maybe the young man (if there is a real person behind this tale) did and maybe he didn't or maybe he heard real people praying and felt happy and that's all there is.  None of us know and you apparently didn't experience it for yourself either. 

Why should this story be accepted as any kind of "proof" or support for your preferences? 

Quote
So if you have boys, entering in Altar and serving at the altar boy is a great plus for serving God and a great joyfull experience. Altar in Eastern Orthodox Church means Heaven and God and angels do come there so the Altar boys are in presence of God that comes to prepare Holy Communion for eternal life. Also hearing/seeing angels, feeling happiness, having ONLY good thoughts and witnessing miracles will boost their faith for entire life.

Have you ever been an altar boy?  I've read and heard some accounts of real boys and while they're trying to help sometimes umm interesting things can happen.

Also, there are other accounts of people "hearing/seeing angels" Joan of Arc comes to mind, and others have witnessed miracles and/or felt happiness. 

How is any of this applicable to a debate?

Ebor
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« Reply #100 on: December 16, 2011, 08:45:46 PM »

May God bless you and help every one of us avoid mistakes. Anyhow I took for granted that everybody knows that Jesus is priest which proved to be a mistake. Even myself I figured this out several years ago. So next time I may add right away the verse.

Well, Jesus is our high priest.

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« Reply #101 on: December 16, 2011, 09:38:42 PM »

Then you need to read Hebrews.

HEB 7:17 for it is testified, "You are a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek."{Psalm 110:4}
.....
HEB 7:21 (for they indeed have been made priests without an oath), but he with an oath by him that says of him, "The Lord swore and will not change his mind, 'You are a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek.'"{Psalm 110:4}
HEB 7:22 By so much, Jesus has become the collateral of a better covenant.
HEB 7:23 Many, indeed, have been made priests, because they are hindered from continuing by death.
HEB 7:24 But he, because he lives forever, has his priesthood unchangeable.


Can you tell us what translation of the New Testament this is from, please?

Quote
The big problem of Protestantism is that if they reach Heaven, they renounced eternal life replacing Holy Communion given by Church from the time of Apostles with symbols, words, nothing. John 6:53

Just what do you really know about any sort of Christian Church that comes from the Protestant Reformation?  How do you know what they have renounced or retained?  I certainly did no such thing; we have Holy Communion in the Anglican Churches. 

You titled this thread a "Debate".  Well, a debate is not posting vague suggestions and unsupported statements and not answering the objections or counter arguments of those who do not agree.  Why did you call this a "debate" if you're not going to interact with other people seriously and haven't shown that you really know much at all about any form of Protestant Christianity. It's not one monolithic block.

Quote
The confidence that God comes to Eastern orthodox Church was boosted by the fact that I was told by somebody serving as altar boy at OCA that while in altar he heard people praying, that I believe to be angels and that all bad thought dissapeared, since sick angels can not enter altar not being able to stand the presence of God.Also he said he felt an extraordinary happiness 

You have confidence and it's based on something that you were told by someone else about an unnamed person and what he supposedly experienced.  Maybe the young man (if there is a real person behind this tale) did and maybe he didn't or maybe he heard real people praying and felt happy and that's all there is.  None of us know and you apparently didn't experience it for yourself either. 

Why should this story be accepted as any kind of "proof" or support for your preferences? 

Quote
So if you have boys, entering in Altar and serving at the altar boy is a great plus for serving God and a great joyfull experience. Altar in Eastern Orthodox Church means Heaven and God and angels do come there so the Altar boys are in presence of God that comes to prepare Holy Communion for eternal life. Also hearing/seeing angels, feeling happiness, having ONLY good thoughts and witnessing miracles will boost their faith for entire life.

Have you ever been an altar boy?  I've read and heard some accounts of real boys and while they're trying to help sometimes umm interesting things can happen.

Also, there are other accounts of people "hearing/seeing angels" Joan of Arc comes to mind, and others have witnessed miracles and/or felt happiness. 

How is any of this applicable to a debate?

Ebor

Ebor,

FWIW, Most of us agree with you.
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« Reply #102 on: December 17, 2011, 10:08:39 AM »

Thank you, Handmaiden. I appreciate it.   Smiley
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« Reply #103 on: December 17, 2011, 10:45:37 AM »

Thank you, Handmaiden. I appreciate it.   Smiley


You are tempting me . . . to go full pasadilogist.
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« Reply #104 on: December 17, 2011, 11:03:12 AM »

Thank you, Handmaiden. I appreciate it.   Smiley


You are tempting me . . . to go full pasadilogist.

Don't do it if it would cause you an injury...  Wink Grin
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« Reply #105 on: December 18, 2011, 09:40:38 AM »

The only injury he'd get is a headache.
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« Reply #106 on: December 19, 2011, 12:23:46 PM »

Thank you, Handmaiden. I appreciate it.   Smiley


You are tempting me . . . to go full pasadilogist.
Pasidiology = pwnage of the toll houses.

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« Reply #107 on: December 24, 2011, 11:09:27 AM »

Then you need to read Hebrews.

HEB 7:17 for it is testified, "You are a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek."{Psalm 110:4}
.....
HEB 7:21 (for they indeed have been made priests without an oath), but he with an oath by him that says of him, "The Lord swore and will not change his mind, 'You are a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek.'"{Psalm 110:4}
HEB 7:22 By so much, Jesus has become the collateral of a better covenant.
HEB 7:23 Many, indeed, have been made priests, because they are hindered from continuing by death.
HEB 7:24 But he, because he lives forever, has his priesthood unchangeable.


Can you tell us what translation of the New Testament this is from, please?

Ebor

1. Which translation?
I use for myself the Orthodox Bible based on Septuagint. Most Protestant translations are based on Masoretic texts that appeared after coming of Jesus thus being inexact. The documents of Judaism spoke about Messiah coming in year 5500 from Creation . See for example the book of Adam and Eve:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/fbe/fbe008.htm
"2 Yea, the Word that will again save thee when the five days and a half are fulfilled."

3 But when Adam heard these words from God, and of the great five days and a half, he did not understand the meaning of them.

4 For Adam was thinking that there would be but five days and a half for him, to the end of the world.

5 And Adam wept, and prayed God to explain it to him.

6 Then God in His mercy for Adam who was made after His own image and similitude, explained to him, that these were 5,000 and 500 years; and how One would then come and save him and his seed."

Word of God is the name of Jesus before taking human nature. Word of God or Jesus can be found in Old Testament in Genesis 15:1 where he promises to Abraham children like the number of stars, Zechariah 12 where Jesus is telling about his crucifixion. Nobody in the World claimed to be Word of God but Jesus and he came in  year 5500 from Creation as he promised. http://www.drdino.com/category/type/video/creation-seminars/  about times from Creation from a scientific view.

Also prophet Daniel explains that Messiah will come before the destruction of next Temple that happen in year 70 AD. So, people of judaism rejecting Messiah had a really big problem in their hand as year 55000 from Creation passed away and year 70 passed away. The solution was changing the years used to determine times from Creation so the new year 5500 was 1580 when nothing did happen as it was based on a false belief.

So, Orthodoxy is based on true Septuagint texts. Protestant translations are based on Masoretic texts. Since I dod not have an Orthodox translation in English I used a Masoretic text and you can use your version and basically the chapter presented will say almost the same thing as we don't discuss the years from Creation and things that were later changed like priests being replaced with elders for some denominations to justify their false teachings based on sola imagination and such.
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« Reply #108 on: December 24, 2011, 11:21:33 AM »

Quote
The big problem of Protestantism is that if they reach Heaven, they renounced eternal life replacing Holy Communion given by Church from the time of Apostles with symbols, words, nothing. John 6:53

Just what do you really know about any sort of Christian Church that comes from the Protestant Reformation?  How do you know what they have renounced or retained?  I certainly did no such thing; we have Holy Communion in the Anglican Churches. 

You titled this thread a "Debate".  Well, a debate is not posting vague suggestions and unsupported statements and not answering the objections or counter arguments of those who do not agree.  Why did you call this a "debate" if you're not going to interact with other people seriously and haven't shown that you really know much at all about any form of Protestant Christianity. It's not one monolithic block.



Well Jesus in John 6:53 speaks about Holy Communion not about symbols. In their own words, some Protestant denominations give symbols , some give words some give nothing.

In my understanding Jesus said to get Holy Communions for immortality. John 6:53-54
Founders of Protestant denominations said you need symbols or words or nothing. Unfortunately Protestantism has decided to go after people teachings thus putting immortality of their members and children in danger. If you want to go in after life and say, yes Jesus told me to get Holy Communion however Johny told me to get symbols or words or nothing and I listened to Johny, UNFORTUNATELLLLYYYYY..... HELPPPPPPP!!!!! How can Johny, or Calvin or Luther help since the errors they were spreading were so big they could not suffer the pillar and foundation of truth that is the Church.

 1 Timothy 3:15 5 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Today even if errors of errors of errors are not suffered and new break away Churches have to be formed.

Not only immortality is in danger even entrance in Heaven since Baptism has been changed so there is a question about validity and also some denominations have renounced baptism  all together thus forbidding their members from heaven Mark 16:16, John 3:3 that is preached in long sermons. I know by reading their words where they explain giving symbols instead of Holy Communion that is given in Eastern Orthodox Church after prescriptions of Apostles. Even RC has changed the process of Holy Communion not as much as Protestantism including Anglicanism anyhow somebody found a great RC Catholic saint not in Heaven but near the aborted unbaptized babies . This is Thomas Aquinas.  Why ? Why RC saints appearing after death say Eastern Orthodox Church is true Church. After your death you will say the same. 1Timothy 3:15 says that Church is the foundation and pillar of truth breaking away from Church RC and Protestantism have put their salvation in great danger. If you have decided to put your well being in the hands of Anglican Church that appeared as a breakaway Church from a breakaway Church, the this is your option. True today there are break away from  breakaway from ...... of course breakaway Church. Anyhow the foundation and pillar of truth is Eastern orthodox Church established by Jesus in year 33. If you want best well being in after life, this is your place with entire family.


How old is the orthodox faith?


If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517. If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to re-marry. If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560. If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582. If you are Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England, founded by Samuel Senbury in the American colonies in the 17th century. If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1606. If you are of the Dutch Reformed Church, you recognize Michelis Jones as founder because he originated your religion in New York in 1628. If you are a Methodist, your religion was founded by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1774. If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, New York, in 1829. If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865. If you are Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.

If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as "Church of the Nazarene, Pentecostal Gospel," "Holiness Church," or "Jehovah's Witnesses," your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past hundred years.

If you are Roman Catholic, your church shared the same rich apostolic and doctrinal heritage as the Orthodox Church for the first thousand years of its history, since during the first millennium they were one and the same Church. Lamentably, in 1054, the Pope of Rome broke away from the other four Apostolic Patriarchates (which include Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem), by tampering with the Original Creed of the Church, and considering himself to be infallible. Thus your church is 1,000 years old.

If you are Orthodox Christian, your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ, the Son of God. It has not changed since that time. Our church is now almost 2,000 years old. And it is for this reason, that Orthodoxy, the Church of the Apostles and the Fathers is considered the true "one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church." This is the greatest legacy that we can pass on to the young people of the new millennium.

by Rev. Dr. Miltiades Efthimiou
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 11:55:00 AM by pasadi97 » Logged
pasadi97
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« Reply #109 on: December 24, 2011, 12:20:35 PM »

Thomas Aquinas found where aborted babies are, however not in Heaven:
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/another_champion_of_abortion_becomes_defender_of_life_the_story_of_stojan_adasevic/

In describing his conversion, Adasevic “dreamed about a beautiful field full of children and young people who were playing and laughing, from 4 to 24 years of age, but who ran away from him in fear. A man dressed in a black and white habit stared at him in silence.  The dream was repeated each night and he would wake up in a cold sweat. One night he asked the man in black and white who he was. ‘My name is Thomas Aquinas,’ the man in his dream responded. Adasevic, educated in communist schools, had never heard of the Dominican genius saint.  He didn’t recognize the name”
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« Reply #110 on: December 24, 2011, 12:31:49 PM »

You have the testimony of somebody very close when God came to prepare Holy Communion for eternal life.

To see that God is in Eastern Orthodox Church you have the miracle of Holy Water where water changes molecular structure after prayer to God to come and bless the water:
http://stmaryofstamford.org/holywater.html

These are miracles of Eastern orthodox Church:

Every aspect of Jesus life in the New testament is accompanied by miracles:

1. Easter is the victory of death over life. On Easter day, in Eastern orthodox Christianity, Holy Light is descending from God, in front of people, on the exact place where Jesus was resurrected. Holy Light comes in the Church built on his sepulcher. This is similar with the column of Light that lead Jews into the desert.

Here is an article about Holy light: http://www.holyfire.org/eng/
Here is a movie about Holy Light: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99xvNIydfvQ
Even if many christian confessions have tried to get Holy light, it come only to Eastern Orthodox Christianity showing the truth of this faith.

2.Baptism allows people to see Heaven. When Jesus was baptized, nature showed submission for Word of God and bowed down with holy Jordan river flowing backward while Jesus was baptized. Year after year this miracle happen even in our times. Here is an movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfmrqZwUjCQ

3.The cloud on Mount Tabor.

Every year on transfiguration day a cloud comes on Mount Tabor. I have seen a picture with this cloud .

4.The skeletons in Egypt

I read that on the time of Bright week, when Jesus had victory over death, in Egypt, near pyramids skeletons come away from Earth and stay in vertical position until the Thursday of Bright week, when Jesus finishing his salvation work and assumed to heaven. I have no picture or movies yet about this miracle.

1+2+3+4 are yearly miracles.

5. Holy water.

Here you see pictures with the actual water structure transformation through the blessing prayer, so it become Holy water. Incredible how prayer can change water structure.
http://stmaryofstamford.org/holywater.html


6. Saints appearing after death, doing miracles after death, moving mountains, having uncorrupted bodies and many more.

Many Easter orthodox Christians can tell you about saints helping through intercession. The Ladder to Heaven dreamed by patriarch in Old testament while sleeping is in Eastern Orthodox Christianity.

Holy Mother of God does many many many miracles.
"The Miracle in Syria"


Compiled by Archimandrite Nektarios Serfes, Boise, Idaho USA

ORTHODOX PATRIARCHAL CONVENT OF VIRGIN MARY

In December 2004 a Saudi Arabian man, a Moslem, appeared before several new agencies to relate the following incredible event he experienced and which changed his life (this story appeared on TV, the Internet, radio, and was circulated in newspapers, magazines, and pamphlets throughout Saudi Arbia, Syria, Palestine, and evidently in all neighboring countries.

Some years ago, this man married a very rich Moslem woman but sterile. As the years passed, and despite all their efforts and significant medical expenses with many doctors, they remained childless. The man's parents suggested to him that he marry a second woman, while upholding his initial marriage (as the local laws permits up to four concurrent marriages).

Being exhausted, worried, and downhearted, he did not accept his parents' advice but rather chose to vacation with his wife in Syria. There, they hired a limousine with a driver who would serve as tour guide fro all their site-seeing excursions throughout Syria. As the vacation progressed, the driver noticed that the Saudi Arabian couple was experiencing bitterness, pain, and grief. Having gained familiarity with the couple, the driver cautiously asked them whey they appeared to be so unhappy-was it perhaps because he was not conducting the tour to their satisfaction?

The couple confided to the driver that the source of their unhappiness was their inability to have children. The driver who was also a Moslem, then told them that in Syria the Christians, specifically the Orthodox Christians, have a monastery named Panagia Saidraya (Arabic word meaning Our Lady) and that many people who can't have children take refuge to Her miracle-producing icon. They go to the monastery and there they are given to eat, the wick form the lamp which burns before the miraculous icon. And then the "Mary" of the Christians gives them according to their faith, what they wish for.

Becoming excited, the Saudi Arabian and his wife asked the driver to take them to the monastery "Saidnaya" of "The Lady of the Christians" and said that if we have a child, then I will come back and I will give you $20,000.00 US and, I will give the monastery $80,000 US. So they went to the monastery and did as they were instructed. Later they returned to their homeland and after some time the wife was found pregnant. In a few months she gave birth to a charming baby boy. It was truly a miracle of Our Lady Theotokos.

Now, as soon as his wife gave birth the Saudi Arabian man wanted to return to Syria to uphold the promises he had made. Upon his return he called the same driver and asked to be picked up at the Damascus airport. But the driver was cunning and wicked and he persuaded two of his friends to go to the airport with him to pick up the rich Saudi Arabian man and to take his money and kill him. So they picked up the rich man at the airport and he, as they drove, without realizing that they had planned to kill him, told the friends of the driver that he would give them also $10,000 US each.

These men still not satisfied, deviated from the route to the monastery and went to a deserted place and proceeded to slay the Saudi Arabian man and to cut off his head and other parts (hands and legs) of his body into pieces. Blinded by passion and overcome by the horrific act that they just committed, they put the man's remains in the trunk of the car rather than just leaving him there. After taking his money, watch, and all that he had, they proceeded to find another deserted place to discard the remains.

Then on the National highway, their car broke down and stopped in the middle of that road. The three men got out to determine why the engine had stalled. Then a passerby stopped to help them but they, afraid that their terrible act would be discovered, pretended that they did not need any help. But as the passerby motorist was leaving, he noticed blood dripping from the rear of the vehicle and he called the police to investigate because the scene and the three men looked suspicious. The police came and they saw the blood under the car and on the pavement so they ordered that the trunk be opened.

Well, when the opened the trunk, lo and behold, the Saudi Arabian man lifted himself out, obviously and amazingly alive and in good health, saying to them "Just now this PANAGIA finished stitching my neck, right here (showing them the area of his Adam's Apple), after first stitching up the rest of my entire body". Seeing this, the three criminals immediately lost their minds-becoming like mad. The police handcuffed them and as they were being taken away to an asylum for the insane, the criminals started raving that it could not be possible that the Saudi Arabian man whom they killed, beheaded, and dissected could yet be alive.

The Saudi Arabian went to a medical facility to undergo examination by doctors and medical examiners who confirmed and attested that the stitching was done very recently, thereby validating the miraculous event. The stitches were, and still are, obvious. When the Saudi Arabian came out of the car's trunk, he had the appearance, literally, of just having been refabricated (put back together) to which he continuously confessed that they PANAGIA had rejoined his body and resurrected him with the help of her Son.

Immediately after this, the Saudi Arabian called his relatives to come to Syria and they all went together to the monastery of Panagia Saidnaya and offered up prayers, praises, and glorification, and instead of the initial gift of $80,000 US (which was promised), he gave $800,000 US to the Theotokos.

Today, as this man relates the details of that overwhelming miracle, he starts his narration with "When I was a Moslem this happened to me" this indicating he is not longer a Moslem, as neither is his family.

This miracle stunned with awesome surprise the entire Arabic/Moslem nation and all of the Middle East. ”

Saint Spiridon have incorruptible body, he is like sleeping and many times his body is missing and his shoes are to be changed every year since they become worn out.
Here is an account:
http://www.bucharestherald.ro/dailye...&print=1&page=
Saint Mark have moved Mountains. Saint Parascheva has also many miracles. Arsenie Boca has so many miracles, incredible. There are several inspiring books that tell about his miracles.

Many many miracles:
The Icon of Holy Mother of God blinking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTrojZJmk18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV6eQLLjwS4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcFHVhhwgq8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JGUJ9AgKAQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8C_8bI_t4A

An account of Miracles of Saints:
http://www.orthodox.net/stnicholas/s...3miracles.html
http://www.saint-spyridon.com/archive_spyridon.htm
http://saintjohnwonderworker.org/visitors_book_2008.htm
http://www.pigizois.net/latreia/para...ta_ag_mina.htm
http://full-of-grace-and-truth.blogs...-streamer.html


Eastern Orthodox Christianity has most miracles and most powerful ones being the right way. Other religions have miracles too. To say there are no miracles outside Eastern orthodox Christianity is to say there were no miracles in Old Testament which is no right. Jesus name drives away sick angels for every man of every confession. However let not forget, the means are to get baptized so you can get into Heaven and to get food for eternal life, Holy Communion , that you can find in Eastern orthodox Church.


Anything interesting that people should know?
Well, people dying after having Holy Communion may go straight to heaven having God in themselves. Same thing with people dying on bright week since skies are open. Also this book http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/apocrypha_nt/histjoe.htm says on point 26 that whomever writes it will have the book of the sins erased and many other good things, as a gift of Jesus in honour of his Father Joseph. Also I read that by having a candle burning in front of an icon for one day you have one day in Heaven.

The orthodox Christian came to the wise man and said:
I teach my children in a good school.
The wise man wrote an 0.
Orthodox Christian said: I send my children to the best sports and I train them to be healthy:
The wise man put another 0 in front of it.
Orthodox Christian said: I teach my children to work hard.
The wise man put another 0 .
Orthodox Christian said: I teach my children to avoid stealing.
The wise man put another 0.
Orthodox Christian said: I teach my children to stop being lazy.
The wise man put another 0.
The Orthodox Christian man said: I give my children baptism for entering Heaven and food for eternal life.
The wise man smiled and put an 1 in front of so many 0's. He said: Without life and entrance to heaven, these qualities are 0's. Only by having eternal life and by entering the Heaven , children will be able to enjoy the qualities you are looking for.


Other interesting books:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/16409335/Evadarea-Din-Iad - in romanian language
http://www.scribd.com/doc/24991031/S...iul-Si-Biblia2 – in romanian language, The war and the Bible
http://www.scribd.com/doc/28785019/P...-Boca-Marturii Arsenie Boca Memories – romanian language
http://www.crestinortodox.ro/carti-o...uri-81167.html romanian Cleopa stories book. Abortion can be forgiven to confession at an Orthodox Priest
http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/bct/index.htm
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/apocrypha_nt/histjoe.htm
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/apocrypha_nt/narjoe.htm
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/apocrypha_nt/reptpilt.htm
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/LostBo...vityOfMary.htm
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/LostBooks/infancyall.htm
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/LostBooks/nicodemus.htm
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/LostBo...susAbgarus.htm
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/pseude...ha/adamnev.htm
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/pseudepigrapha/enoch.htm
http://lds.org/scriptures/pgp/abr?lang=eng
http://lds.org/scriptures/pgp/abr?lang=eng
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/pseudepigrapha/1007.htm
http://www.crestinortodox.ro/carti-o...intele-paisie/
Miracles:
http://www.saint-spyridon.com/archive_spyridon.htm
http://www.sfantaparascheva.com/minuni.php Romanian
http://saintjohnwonderworker.org/visitors_book_2008.htm


Movies:
The souls departs from body, where is he going?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyBDs8JpEa8
Where you can get not being baptized, in old Greek pagan religion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv-VlJnDvuw
Where you can get after being baptized:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxU3L...eature=related
How to pray in Church. Praying in an Eastern Orthodox Church and listening to sermon is second importance, the most important is to partake FOOD FOR ETERNAL LIFE, Holy Communion that comes from us for 2000 years. Even so, praying is important too so how to pray?
Because the movie is in Romanian and Russian the plot is this. An elder asks God why God does not respond to people prayers, since they go to Church and pray? God sends an angel and the angel takes him in Church and he can hear prayers but nothing is heard. Then angel discovers the thoughts of everybody. One young lady is commenting why other lady has a new hat. One young man is wondering if he should buy the Lexus. Another young man is wondering why a young girl has a ring on her finger and a woman is upset that his husband is looking to soccer too much. So basically nobody is praying. In the end a small girl in the Church full of people is praying for her father to come out of alcoholism. So, one Church, many people, one prayer from the people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DiIpBQQpGc
The Icon of Holy Mother of God blinking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTrojZJmk18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV6eQLLjwS4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcFHVhhwgq8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JGUJ9AgKAQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8C_8bI_t4A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72yJhlMjFBo
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« Reply #111 on: December 24, 2011, 12:55:32 PM »

Ideas:
The Church, the pillar and foundation of the truth (I Tim. 3:1 5).

In my understanding this is about Eastern Orthodox Church established by Apostles in year 33 in Jerusalem not about Protestantism established after 1500. History is clear, the Church established in year 33 in Jerusalem is today Eastern Orthodox.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 12:56:34 PM by pasadi97 » Logged
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« Reply #112 on: December 24, 2011, 03:12:51 PM »

Fantastic.
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Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #113 on: December 24, 2011, 05:12:24 PM »

You have the testimony of somebody very close when God came to prepare Holy Communion for eternal life.

To see that God is in Eastern Orthodox Church you have the miracle of Holy Water where water changes molecular structure after prayer to God to come and bless the water:
http://stmaryofstamford.org/holywater.html

These are miracles of Eastern orthodox Church:

Every aspect of Jesus life in the New testament is accompanied by miracles:

1. Easter is the victory of death over life. On Easter day, in Eastern orthodox Christianity, Holy Light is descending from God, in front of people, on the exact place where Jesus was resurrected. Holy Light comes in the Church built on his sepulcher. This is similar with the column of Light that lead Jews into the desert.

Here is an article about Holy light: http://www.holyfire.org/eng/
Here is a movie about Holy Light: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99xvNIydfvQ
Even if many christian confessions have tried to get Holy light, it come only to Eastern Orthodox Christianity showing the truth of this faith.

2.Baptism allows people to see Heaven. When Jesus was baptized, nature showed submission for Word of God and bowed down with holy Jordan river flowing backward while Jesus was baptized. Year after year this miracle happen even in our times. Here is an movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfmrqZwUjCQ

3.The cloud on Mount Tabor.

Every year on transfiguration day a cloud comes on Mount Tabor. I have seen a picture with this cloud .

4.The skeletons in Egypt

I read that on the time of Bright week, when Jesus had victory over death, in Egypt, near pyramids skeletons come away from Earth and stay in vertical position until the Thursday of Bright week, when Jesus finishing his salvation work and assumed to heaven. I have no picture or movies yet about this miracle.

1+2+3+4 are yearly miracles.

5. Holy water.

Here you see pictures with the actual water structure transformation through the blessing prayer, so it become Holy water. Incredible how prayer can change water structure.
http://stmaryofstamford.org/holywater.html


6. Saints appearing after death, doing miracles after death, moving mountains, having uncorrupted bodies and many more.

Many Easter orthodox Christians can tell you about saints helping through intercession. The Ladder to Heaven dreamed by patriarch in Old testament while sleeping is in Eastern Orthodox Christianity.

Holy Mother of God does many many many miracles.
"The Miracle in Syria"


Compiled by Archimandrite Nektarios Serfes, Boise, Idaho USA

ORTHODOX PATRIARCHAL CONVENT OF VIRGIN MARY

In December 2004 a Saudi Arabian man, a Moslem, appeared before several new agencies to relate the following incredible event he experienced and which changed his life (this story appeared on TV, the Internet, radio, and was circulated in newspapers, magazines, and pamphlets throughout Saudi Arbia, Syria, Palestine, and evidently in all neighboring countries.

Some years ago, this man married a very rich Moslem woman but sterile. As the years passed, and despite all their efforts and significant medical expenses with many doctors, they remained childless. The man's parents suggested to him that he marry a second woman, while upholding his initial marriage (as the local laws permits up to four concurrent marriages).

Being exhausted, worried, and downhearted, he did not accept his parents' advice but rather chose to vacation with his wife in Syria. There, they hired a limousine with a driver who would serve as tour guide fro all their site-seeing excursions throughout Syria. As the vacation progressed, the driver noticed that the Saudi Arabian couple was experiencing bitterness, pain, and grief. Having gained familiarity with the couple, the driver cautiously asked them whey they appeared to be so unhappy-was it perhaps because he was not conducting the tour to their satisfaction?

The couple confided to the driver that the source of their unhappiness was their inability to have children. The driver who was also a Moslem, then told them that in Syria the Christians, specifically the Orthodox Christians, have a monastery named Panagia Saidraya (Arabic word meaning Our Lady) and that many people who can't have children take refuge to Her miracle-producing icon. They go to the monastery and there they are given to eat, the wick form the lamp which burns before the miraculous icon. And then the "Mary" of the Christians gives them according to their faith, what they wish for.

Becoming excited, the Saudi Arabian and his wife asked the driver to take them to the monastery "Saidnaya" of "The Lady of the Christians" and said that if we have a child, then I will come back and I will give you $20,000.00 US and, I will give the monastery $80,000 US. So they went to the monastery and did as they were instructed. Later they returned to their homeland and after some time the wife was found pregnant. In a few months she gave birth to a charming baby boy. It was truly a miracle of Our Lady Theotokos.

Now, as soon as his wife gave birth the Saudi Arabian man wanted to return to Syria to uphold the promises he had made. Upon his return he called the same driver and asked to be picked up at the Damascus airport. But the driver was cunning and wicked and he persuaded two of his friends to go to the airport with him to pick up the rich Saudi Arabian man and to take his money and kill him. So they picked up the rich man at the airport and he, as they drove, without realizing that they had planned to kill him, told the friends of the driver that he would give them also $10,000 US each.

These men still not satisfied, deviated from the route to the monastery and went to a deserted place and proceeded to slay the Saudi Arabian man and to cut off his head and other parts (hands and legs) of his body into pieces. Blinded by passion and overcome by the horrific act that they just committed, they put the man's remains in the trunk of the car rather than just leaving him there. After taking his money, watch, and all that he had, they proceeded to find another deserted place to discard the remains.

Then on the National highway, their car broke down and stopped in the middle of that road. The three men got out to determine why the engine had stalled. Then a passerby stopped to help them but they, afraid that their terrible act would be discovered, pretended that they did not need any help. But as the passerby motorist was leaving, he noticed blood dripping from the rear of the vehicle and he called the police to investigate because the scene and the three men looked suspicious. The police came and they saw the blood under the car and on the pavement so they ordered that the trunk be opened.

Well, when the opened the trunk, lo and behold, the Saudi Arabian man lifted himself out, obviously and amazingly alive and in good health, saying to them "Just now this PANAGIA finished stitching my neck, right here (showing them the area of his Adam's Apple), after first stitching up the rest of my entire body". Seeing this, the three criminals immediately lost their minds-becoming like mad. The police handcuffed them and as they were being taken away to an asylum for the insane, the criminals started raving that it could not be possible that the Saudi Arabian man whom they killed, beheaded, and dissected could yet be alive.

The Saudi Arabian went to a medical facility to undergo examination by doctors and medical examiners who confirmed and attested that the stitching was done very recently, thereby validating the miraculous event. The stitches were, and still are, obvious. When the Saudi Arabian came out of the car's trunk, he had the appearance, literally, of just having been refabricated (put back together) to which he continuously confessed that they PANAGIA had rejoined his body and resurrected him with the help of her Son.

Immediately after this, the Saudi Arabian called his relatives to come to Syria and they all went together to the monastery of Panagia Saidnaya and offered up prayers, praises, and glorification, and instead of the initial gift of $80,000 US (which was promised), he gave $800,000 US to the Theotokos.

Today, as this man relates the details of that overwhelming miracle, he starts his narration with "When I was a Moslem this happened to me" this indicating he is not longer a Moslem, as neither is his family.

This miracle stunned with awesome surprise the entire Arabic/Moslem nation and all of the Middle East. ”

Saint Spiridon have incorruptible body, he is like sleeping and many times his body is missing and his shoes are to be changed every year since they become worn out.
Here is an account:
http://www.bucharestherald.ro/dailye...&print=1&page=
Saint Mark have moved Mountains. Saint Parascheva has also many miracles. Arsenie Boca has so many miracles, incredible. There are several inspiring books that tell about his miracles.

Many many miracles:
The Icon of Holy Mother of God blinking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTrojZJmk18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV6eQLLjwS4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcFHVhhwgq8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JGUJ9AgKAQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8C_8bI_t4A

An account of Miracles of Saints:
http://www.orthodox.net/stnicholas/s...3miracles.html
http://www.saint-spyridon.com/archive_spyridon.htm
http://saintjohnwonderworker.org/visitors_book_2008.htm
http://www.pigizois.net/latreia/para...ta_ag_mina.htm
http://full-of-grace-and-truth.blogs...-streamer.html


Eastern Orthodox Christianity has most miracles and most powerful ones being the right way. Other religions have miracles too. To say there are no miracles outside Eastern orthodox Christianity is to say there were no miracles in Old Testament which is no right. Jesus name drives away sick angels for every man of every confession. However let not forget, the means are to get baptized so you can get into Heaven and to get food for eternal life, Holy Communion , that you can find in Eastern orthodox Church.


Anything interesting that people should know?
Well, people dying after having Holy Communion may go straight to heaven having God in themselves. Same thing with people dying on bright week since skies are open. Also this book http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/apocrypha_nt/histjoe.htm says on point 26 that whomever writes it will have the book of the sins erased and many other good things, as a gift of Jesus in honour of his Father Joseph. Also I read that by having a candle burning in front of an icon for one day you have one day in Heaven.

The orthodox Christian came to the wise man and said:
I teach my children in a good school.
The wise man wrote an 0.
Orthodox Christian said: I send my children to the best sports and I train them to be healthy:
The wise man put another 0 in front of it.
Orthodox Christian said: I teach my children to work hard.
The wise man put another 0 .
Orthodox Christian said: I teach my children to avoid stealing.
The wise man put another 0.
Orthodox Christian said: I teach my children to stop being lazy.
The wise man put another 0.
The Orthodox Christian man said: I give my children baptism for entering Heaven and food for eternal life.
The wise man smiled and put an 1 in front of so many 0's. He said: Without life and entrance to heaven, these qualities are 0's. Only by having eternal life and by entering the Heaven , children will be able to enjoy the qualities you are looking for.


Other interesting books:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/16409335/Evadarea-Din-Iad - in romanian language
http://www.scribd.com/doc/24991031/S...iul-Si-Biblia2 – in romanian language, The war and the Bible
http://www.scribd.com/doc/28785019/P...-Boca-Marturii Arsenie Boca Memories – romanian language
http://www.crestinortodox.ro/carti-o...uri-81167.html romanian Cleopa stories book. Abortion can be forgiven to confession at an Orthodox Priest
http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/bct/index.htm
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/apocrypha_nt/histjoe.htm
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/apocrypha_nt/narjoe.htm
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/apocrypha_nt/reptpilt.htm
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/LostBo...vityOfMary.htm
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/LostBooks/infancyall.htm
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/LostBooks/nicodemus.htm
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/LostBo...susAbgarus.htm
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/pseude...ha/adamnev.htm
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/pseudepigrapha/enoch.htm
http://lds.org/scriptures/pgp/abr?lang=eng
http://lds.org/scriptures/pgp/abr?lang=eng
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/pseudepigrapha/1007.htm
http://www.crestinortodox.ro/carti-o...intele-paisie/
Miracles:
http://www.saint-spyridon.com/archive_spyridon.htm
http://www.sfantaparascheva.com/minuni.php Romanian
http://saintjohnwonderworker.org/visitors_book_2008.htm


Movies:
The souls departs from body, where is he going?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyBDs8JpEa8
Where you can get not being baptized, in old Greek pagan religion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv-VlJnDvuw
Where you can get after being baptized:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxU3L...eature=related
How to pray in Church. Praying in an Eastern Orthodox Church and listening to sermon is second importance, the most important is to partake FOOD FOR ETERNAL LIFE, Holy Communion that comes from us for 2000 years. Even so, praying is important too so how to pray?
Because the movie is in Romanian and Russian the plot is this. An elder asks God why God does not respond to people prayers, since they go to Church and pray? God sends an angel and the angel takes him in Church and he can hear prayers but nothing is heard. Then angel discovers the thoughts of everybody. One young lady is commenting why other lady has a new hat. One young man is wondering if he should buy the Lexus. Another young man is wondering why a young girl has a ring on her finger and a woman is upset that his husband is looking to soccer too much. So basically nobody is praying. In the end a small girl in the Church full of people is praying for her father to come out of alcoholism. So, one Church, many people, one prayer from the people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DiIpBQQpGc
The Icon of Holy Mother of God blinking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTrojZJmk18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV6eQLLjwS4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcFHVhhwgq8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JGUJ9AgKAQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8C_8bI_t4A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72yJhlMjFBo
You already submitted most of this post somewhere else: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,35988.0.html. Posting it here as well is called cross-posting, which wastes our bandwidth. All you need to do is post a link back to the post where you originally submitted this material. Cross-post again like you just did, and the cross-posted material will be moved to join its original, and you will receive a formal warning.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 05:13:02 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #114 on: December 24, 2011, 05:52:32 PM »

Now taking off my moderator hat and addressing this as just another poster:

You have the testimony of somebody very close when God came to prepare Holy Communion for eternal life.

To see that God is in Eastern Orthodox Church you have the miracle of Holy Water where water changes molecular structure after prayer to God to come and bless the water:
http://stmaryofstamford.org/holywater.html
This "miracle" was shown to be a fraud.  http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,39056.msg632515.html#msg632515

These are miracles of Eastern orthodox Church:

Every aspect of Jesus life in the New testament is accompanied by miracles:

1. Easter is the victory of death over life. On Easter day, in Eastern orthodox Christianity, Holy Light is descending from God, in front of people, on the exact place where Jesus was resurrected. Holy Light comes in the Church built on his sepulcher. This is similar with the column of Light that lead Jews into the desert.

...

2.Baptism allows people to see Heaven. When Jesus was baptized, nature showed submission for Word of God and bowed down with holy Jordan river flowing backward while Jesus was baptized. Year after year this miracle happen even in our times. Here is an movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfmrqZwUjCQ

3.The cloud on Mount Tabor.

Every year on transfiguration day a cloud comes on Mount Tabor. I have seen a picture with this cloud .

4.The skeletons in Egypt

...

5. Holy water.

...

6. Saints appearing after death, doing miracles after death, moving mountains, having uncorrupted bodies and many more.

Many Easter orthodox Christians can tell you about saints helping through intercession. The Ladder to Heaven dreamed by patriarch in Old testament while sleeping is in Eastern Orthodox Christianity.

Holy Mother of God does many many many miracles.
"The Miracle in Syria"


Compiled by Archimandrite Nektarios Serfes, Boise, Idaho USA

ORTHODOX PATRIARCHAL CONVENT OF VIRGIN MARY

In December 2004 a Saudi Arabian man, a Moslem, appeared before several new agencies to relate the following incredible event he experienced and which changed his life (this story appeared on TV, the Internet, radio, and was circulated in newspapers, magazines, and pamphlets throughout Saudi Arbia, Syria, Palestine, and evidently in all neighboring countries.

...

Today, as this man relates the details of that overwhelming miracle, he starts his narration with "When I was a Moslem this happened to me" this indicating he is not longer a Moslem, as neither is his family.

This miracle stunned with awesome surprise the entire Arabic/Moslem nation and all of the Middle East. ”
Ebor showed this story to be an urban legend. http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,39052.msg625808.html#msg625808
I notice that you said nothing to Ebor in reply.

Saint Spiridon have incorruptible body, he is like sleeping and many times his body is missing and his shoes are to be changed every year since they become worn out.
Here is an account:
http://www.bucharestherald.ro/dailye...&print=1&page=
Saint Mark have moved Mountains. Saint Parascheva has also many miracles. Arsenie Boca has so many miracles, incredible. There are several inspiring books that tell about his miracles.

Many many miracles:
The Icon of Holy Mother of God blinking:
...

An account of Miracles of Saints:
...

Eastern Orthodox Christianity has most miracles and most powerful ones being the right way. Other religions have miracles too. To say there are no miracles outside Eastern orthodox Christianity is to say there were no miracles in Old Testament which is no right. Jesus name drives away sick angels for every man of every confession. However let not forget, the means are to get baptized so you can get into Heaven and to get food for eternal life, Holy Communion , that you can find in Eastern orthodox Church.


Anything interesting that people should know?
Well, people dying after having Holy Communion may go straight to heaven having God in themselves. Same thing with people dying on bright week since skies are open. Also this book http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/apocrypha_nt/histjoe.htm says on point 26 that whomever writes it will have the book of the sins erased and many other good things, as a gift of Jesus in honour of his Father Joseph.
Who told you this?

Also I read that by having a candle burning in front of an icon for one day you have one day in Heaven.
Where did you read this?

The orthodox Christian came to the wise man and said:
I teach my children in a good school.
The wise man wrote an 0.
Orthodox Christian said: I send my children to the best sports and I train them to be healthy:
The wise man put another 0 in front of it.
Orthodox Christian said: I teach my children to work hard.
The wise man put another 0 .
Orthodox Christian said: I teach my children to avoid stealing.
The wise man put another 0.
Orthodox Christian said: I teach my children to stop being lazy.
The wise man put another 0.
The Orthodox Christian man said: I give my children baptism for entering Heaven and food for eternal life.
The wise man smiled and put an 1 in front of so many 0's. He said: Without life and entrance to heaven, these qualities are 0's. Only by having eternal life and by entering the Heaven , children will be able to enjoy the qualities you are looking for.
What wise man?


Other interesting books:
...

Miracles:
...

Movies:
...

The Icon of Holy Mother of God blinking:
...

In another thread I said the following about your accounts of "miracles" and the photos and videos you post to support these accounts:

I have heard of all these alleged miracles, and I'm actually not opposed to believing what I've heard about them. But how do you intend to go about using supposed photos and videos of these miracles, images that can easily be faked via today's software applications, to win Protestants and Catholics to the Orthodox Faith? Additionally, why should anyone believe your word on these miracles?

As usual, I notice how you said nothing to me in reply.

Once again, on this debate thread, you're not engaging those who challenge your claims. You've chosen instead to just repost the same stories you've posted many times already. Why should we find them convincing?

Pasadi97, many times and in many places on this forum, different people have challenged your stories and shown them to be frauds, urban legends, or just unbelievable. When are you going to stop dodging your accusers? When are you going to defend yourself and your claims against their charges?
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« Reply #115 on: December 27, 2011, 12:43:19 AM »

Then you need to read Hebrews.

HEB 7:17 for it is testified, "You are a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek."{Psalm 110:4}
.....
HEB 7:21 (for they indeed have been made priests without an oath), but he with an oath by him that says of him, "The Lord swore and will not change his mind, 'You are a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek.'"{Psalm 110:4}
HEB 7:22 By so much, Jesus has become the collateral of a better covenant.
HEB 7:23 Many, indeed, have been made priests, because they are hindered from continuing by death.
HEB 7:24 But he, because he lives forever, has his priesthood unchangeable.


Can you tell us what translation of the New Testament this is from, please?

1. Which translation?
I use for myself the Orthodox Bible based on Septuagint. Most Protestant translations are based on Masoretic texts that appeared after coming of Jesus thus being inexact. The documents of Judaism spoke about Messiah coming in year 5500 from Creation . See for example the book of Adam and Eve:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/fbe/fbe008.htm

...all of which is really neither here nor there since (a) the epistles are not found in the Masoretic Text, (b) the passage you quote here isn't from scripture at all, and (c) the quotations from Hebrews which you made earlier appear to come from the World English Bible, which does use the MT. What exactly is the point here? You cannot possibly make an acceptable argument to a Protestant using pseudepigrapha as an authority, and when you refer to real scripture, you use a version which belies your stated principles. Then you work from a creationist site which is also Protestant. None of this does anything to further your argument, nor does repeating demonstrably false legends. Indeed, to some extent you are promoting sola scriptura in that you are showing some of the more obvious dangers of working from non-scriptural sources.
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« Reply #116 on: December 27, 2011, 07:20:50 AM »

Please read from the Bible of your choice: Hebrews 7:17,and Hebrews 7:21-24. You will see something very similar with the verses posted. I don't have currently Orthodox Bible in English, this is why I used the free Bible I could find.

We find the Holy Water as a miracle being mentioned in history. Anyhow, you can take Holy water, tape water and see who resists more. Psalm 50 in Orthodox Bibles, 51 in Protestant Bibles speaks about Holy Water in my understanding:
"PS 51:7 Purify me with hyssop, and I will be clean. Wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.
"

As you see I presented you with MANY miracles and this is outside Sola Scriptura or Sola Imagination if you wish. Regarding saint Spiridon you can go and search for " Saint Spyridon shoes" and find many writtings of the miracle:
http://evlogeite.com/?p=73
"St. Spyridon reposed in, more or less, the year 348. His relics, completely incorrupt, are kept in the cathedral on the island of Corfu. He has a reputation as being an unusually active saint — he is seen here, there and pretty much everywhere, interceding for the faithful. Oh pshaw, you say. How do you know that?

There is some unusual proof to the statement. Every year they take his relics and process through the streets of the town. The relics are so incorrupt, so soft and flexible, that they bounce slightly as he is carried, as you or I might bounce when being carried in a chair. After the procession, they do one other thing. Every year. For the who knows how many centuries. What do they do?

Every year, they change St. Spyridon’s shoes. The reason is that the old ones — which were just put on him the year before — are worn out, with holes in the soles. Just like they would be if worn by a man who had just spent the last year covering a lot of ground.

"

St Spyridon and Saint Nicholas defended Eastern Orthodoxy at 2 Councils, defended the Church, The pillar and foundation of truth, 3 Timothy 3:15. Because of this they can do many miracles. Holy Mother of God can do more since she allowed humanity get back to Heaven through giving birth to Jesus, allowing for Church to exist.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 07:33:20 AM by pasadi97 » Logged
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« Reply #117 on: December 27, 2011, 02:11:20 PM »

1. Which translation?
I use for myself the Orthodox Bible based on Septuagint. Most Protestant translations are based on Masoretic texts that appeared after coming of Jesus thus being inexact. The documents of Judaism spoke about Messiah coming in year 5500 from Creation . See for example the book of Adam and Eve:

That has nothing to do with my question about what English translation you quoted.  Did you put the Hebrews passage into English on your own or did you use a published English translation of the New Testament Epistles? 

The Septuagint and Masoretic texts being the Old Testament/Tanakh don't have the Letter to the Hebrews in them.  Why do you mention them?

Quote

This is not in the Bible or in the Apocrypha. 

Can anyone else reading this say if this work is accepted in any EO context?
Quote
Since I dod not have an Orthodox translation in English I used a Masoretic text

Which one?  What translation did you use, please?  Why won't you give that information?  And to repeat, the Letter to the Hebrews is not part of the Masoretic text.

 
Quote
sola imagination and such.

A cheap shot at translators based on what?  Who are you thinking of?

Ebor
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« Reply #118 on: December 27, 2011, 02:20:18 PM »

Can anyone else reading this say if this work is accepted in any EO context?

I'd never even heard of it till just now Cheesy
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« Reply #119 on: December 27, 2011, 02:41:14 PM »

Quote
The big problem of Protestantism is that if they reach Heaven, they renounced eternal life replacing Holy Communion given by Church from the time of Apostles with symbols, words, nothing. John 6:53

Just what do you really know about any sort of Christian Church that comes from the Protestant Reformation?  How do you know what they have renounced or retained?  I certainly did no such thing; we have Holy Communion in the Anglican Churches.  

You titled this thread a "Debate".  Well, a debate is not posting vague suggestions and unsupported statements and not answering the objections or counter arguments of those who do not agree.  Why did you call this a "debate" if you're not going to interact with other people seriously and haven't shown that you really know much at all about any form of Protestant Christianity. It's not one monolithic block.



Well Jesus in John 6:53 speaks about Holy Communion not about symbols. In their own words, some Protestant denominations give symbols , some give words some give nothing.

That doesn't answer the question that I asked.  Why did you call this thread a "debate" when you are doing nothing of the kind.

"In their own words"?  I do not believe that you know anything about any form of Protestant Eucharistic/Communion beliefs unless you quote them and give sources for your information. What Churches?  What words?  I will write this because this in the Protestant discussion forum:  Anglicans have Holy Communion and the Real Presence of Our Lord. That is our belief.

Quote
Founders of Protestant denominations said you need symbols or words or nothing.
What are their names and their actual real words on this?  

Quote
Unfortunately Protestantism has decided to go after people teachings thus putting immortality of their members and children in danger. If you want to go in after life and say, yes Jesus told me to get Holy Communion however Johny told me to get symbols or words or nothing and I listened to Johny, UNFORTUNATELLLLYYYYY..... HELPPPPPPP!!!!! How can Johny, or Calvin or Luther help since the errors they were spreading were so big they could not suffer the pillar and foundation of truth that is the Church.

Who is "Johny"?  I don't think you understand anything about real Protestant Christian beliefs or practices.  What "people teachings" do you mean and can you back them up with any real true documents?

Quote
some denominations have renounced baptism
You've written this before and didn't answer when you were asked about it. What denominations?  What are their names? What quotes are there that this is true?  I mean quotes from other people.

Quote
Even RC has changed the process of Holy Communion not as much as Protestantism including Anglicanism

What has the RCC done?  What do you think is the "process" of Anglican Communion?  

Quote
anyhow somebody found a great RC Catholic saint not in Heaven but near the aborted unbaptized babies . This is Thomas Aquinas.  Why ? Why RC saints appearing after death say Eastern Orthodox Church is true Church.

This is not true.  I'll address in below where you write of it again.

Quote
If you are.....
<rest of this often repeated bit of imho inaccurate and mocking nonsense removed to save band width>

I've seen this used by both EO and RC to take a shot and any who are not of their particular Church.  Interesting how things travel on the 'Net.

No.  My religion was not "founded" by King Henry VIII and the real historic situation is not what the author wrote either. He was wrong.

I am a Christian who is an Anglican.  A "new religion" was not started. The same Creeds, the same Scriptures (including the Apocrypha) the same faith in Our Lord Jesus Christ and the Trinity are part of it.  

I apologize to the moderators if at any point I have crossed the boundaries.  I only write this because it is the EO-Protestant Forum and to give real information.  

Ebor

« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 02:43:53 PM by Ebor » Logged

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« Reply #120 on: December 27, 2011, 02:43:13 PM »

Can anyone else reading this say if this work is accepted in any EO context?

I'd never even heard of it till just now Cheesy

Thanks, Asteriktos.  Smiley  I'm really dubious that it has any real EO presence, but I wanted to check

I'd heard of it because I saw a copy of the book that it's in a long time ago. 

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O Holy St. Demetrius pray to God for us!


« Reply #121 on: December 27, 2011, 03:11:31 PM »

Ebor, FWIW, most of what pasadi97 is saying is not consistent with EO beliefs. I think you've spent enough time on this board to know that. Smiley
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« Reply #122 on: December 27, 2011, 03:53:24 PM »

You have the testimony of somebody very close when God came to prepare Holy Communion for eternal life.

Who?

Quote
To see that God is in Eastern Orthodox Church you have the miracle of Holy Water where water changes molecular structure after prayer to God to come and bless the water:

We went over this in another thread.  This is not True. It is not a "miracle".  Those are photos of snowflakes and they come from a source that another poster provided that has nothing at all to do with anything EO.  That they are on the site of an EO church is not proof because the claim is not true.

I will not address EO beliefs or things like the Holy Light because it is not my place nor have I witnessed it.  However,

Quote
holy Jordan river flowing backward while Jesus was baptized. Year after year this miracle happen even in our times. Here is an movie:

Is there some EO hagiography about the Jordan flowing backwards at Our Lord's baptism?  I do not recall anything about it in the Gospels. That video shows people on the banks of a stream.  It is not "proof" that the water is going backwards without information such as where, when and what circumstances.  Do you know who filmed it?

Quote
3.The cloud on Mount Tabor.

Every year on transfiguration day a cloud comes on Mount Tabor. I have seen a picture with this cloud .

A picture can be faked or taken at one time and then reported as being taken at another.  This is not "proof" just because someone says that it is.

Quote
4.The skeletons in Egypt
I read that on the time of Bright week, when Jesus had victory over death, in Egypt, near pyramids skeletons come away from Earth and stay in vertical position until the Thursday of Bright week, when Jesus finishing his salvation work and assumed to heaven. I have no picture or movies yet about this miracle.

Where did you read this?  What is the title of the book or article?  Are you saying that this happens every year?  Why would it not be reported then?  

I don't believe it.  This isn't proof.
Quote
5. Holy water.
Here you see pictures with the actual water structure transformation through the blessing prayer

No, we don't.  These pictures are not what the page claims.  This is false.  

Quote
6. Saints appearing after death, doing miracles after death, moving mountains, having uncorrupted bodies and many more.

Many Easter orthodox Christians can tell you about saints helping through intercession. The Ladder to Heaven dreamed by patriarch in Old testament while sleeping is in Eastern Orthodox Christianity.

Anglicans can also tell of saints helping through intercession and miracles as can RC and other Christians.  The OT is also in non-EO Christianity and includes Jacob's Dream of the Ladder in the text.  This is not "proof".

Quote
"The Miracle in Syria"

With all due respect to the Archimandrite this story is an Urban Legend.  It is not true.  It has shown up with variations over the years with different wording and details, like who examined the man and where or the name of the monastery.  At one point I communicated with a Saudi gentleman in England about the "claim" that this story had been made known all over the Middle East and the "Arab/Moslem" nation, people etc.  He confirmed that a story that supposedly showed that something Christian was true and miraculous and that led to a Moslem converting would never appear in the news or press.  

Here is an article about it and how the author found it to be false.  
http://www.greeknewsonline.com/?p=6924

<cutting some more to save bandwidth>

Quote
The orthodox Christian came to the wise man and said:

What "wise man"?
Did you write this yourself or is it from some other source please?  Why should this little imagined story convince anyone?  It's not proof of EO, it's someone making up something to illustrate an idea.

Quote
Other interesting books:

I enjoy "Interesting books" but these are not "proof".  And the pseudoepigrapha aren't part of the accepted Scriptures as far as I know.  Do you accept them yourself?  

Quote
Movies:
The souls departs from body, where is he going?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyBDs8JpEa8

Blurry and it could be faked. Where and when do you think this happened?

Quote
Where you can get not being baptized, in old Greek pagan religion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv-VlJnDvuw

I think that this is the third time you've posted this link.  For the third time:  This video is made up of clips from Walt Disney Studio's 1997 feature length film "Hercules" which has nothing to do with any real "pagan" religion" and not much to do with real Greek Mythology. It is an entertainment.  

It is not "Proof".  It's a cartoon and that's all it is. Nothing more.  Why do you keep posting it?  Why do you think that it has anything to do with a "Protestant Orthodox Debate"?   It's neither EO nor Protestant and it is not "proof".
 
Quote
Where you can get after being baptized:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxU3L...eature=related

Another third time posted link.  This is from someone's imagination. It looks like some lower grade video gaming.  It is not "proof".

Quote
the movie is in Romanian and Russian

Many other Christians have addressed the idea of prayer.  Just for one example.  C. S. Lewis wrote in The Screwtape Letters of people being distracted in church or at prayer.  So this idea is not limited to Slavic EO.

Ebor

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« Reply #123 on: December 27, 2011, 04:00:16 PM »

Ebor, FWIW, most of what pasadi97 is saying is not consistent with EO beliefs. I think you've spent enough time on this board to know that. Smiley


Indeed, HandmaidenofGod, for the most part I know that his/her posts are not real EO.   Smiley

It is the unfounded, mistaken or false remarks, particularly about Anglicans and other non-EO and science and real history that I'm trying to deal with.  I'm also trying to be polite but it's frustrating to read some of the things that are just not true but have been repeated. 

I appreciate your posting.  Smiley

Ebor
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« Reply #124 on: December 27, 2011, 04:10:29 PM »

One more:

Thomas Aquinas found where aborted babies are, however not in Heaven:
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/another_champion_of_abortion_becomes_defender_of_life_the_story_of_stojan_adasevic/

In describing his conversion, Adasevic “dreamed about a beautiful field full of children and young people who were playing and laughing, from 4 to 24 years of age, but who ran away from him in fear. A man dressed in a black and white habit stared at him in silence.  The dream was repeated each night and he would wake up in a cold sweat. One night he asked the man in black and white who he was. ‘My name is Thomas Aquinas,’ the man in his dream responded. Adasevic, educated in communist schools, had never heard of the Dominican genius saint.  He didn’t recognize the name”

I looked this up.  The account is not what Pasadi97 thinks it is.  It shows up on a number of RC pro-life sites, with some variation in numbers.  The man who is named as having the dream, Stojan Adasevic, is reported to have been a Serbian abortionist.  The dreams are said to have 'converted' him to the pro-life side.  The accounts that I found say nothing about St. Thomas Aquinas and the children not being in Heaven.  The implication is that they are in Heaven because they were killed by abortion, not in some kind of limbo. 

So this account is not "proof" of anything EO either. 

Ebor
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« Reply #125 on: December 28, 2011, 12:58:42 AM »

We find the Holy Water as a miracle being mentioned in history. Anyhow, you can take Holy water, tape water and see who resists more. Psalm 50 in Orthodox Bibles, 51 in Protestant Bibles speaks about Holy Water in my understanding:
"PS 51:7 Purify me with hyssop, and I will be clean. Wash me, and I will be whiter than snow."

And I, from my own garden, furnished the clump of hyssop which the rector used to asperge the newly built columbarium (and in the process absolutely drenching the altar boy). So what does this mean? The blessing of holy water is a mystery, not a magical transformation. For some years a bowl of holy water was left in the font in my own parish, that people might bless themselves with it. Nobody would have thought for one second to examine its molecular structure; indeed, the thought of doing so would strike most as sacrilegious.

Quote
As you see I presented you with MANY miracles and this is outside Sola Scriptura or Sola Imagination if you wish. Regarding saint Spiridon you can go and search for " Saint Spyridon shoes" and find many writtings of the miracle:
http://evlogeite.com/?p=73
[....]
Every year, they change St. Spyridon’s shoes. The reason is that the old ones — which were just put on him the year before — are worn out, with holes in the soles. Just like they would be if worn by a man who had just spent the last year covering a lot of ground.

It says something about this bit of hagiography that the sole book source I could find for this was a dissertation on Greek-American folklore. One would expect Catholic hagiography to repeat the same tale, which  apparently it does not. Anyway, Catholics have their miracles too (and most of yours in the bargain), and one can find an Anglican miracle here or there as well. I am willing to take miracles as some level of affirmation in Christianity as a whole. However, I do not see that they ratify one church over another.
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« Reply #126 on: December 31, 2011, 09:03:28 PM »

If you have same beliefs as with Eastern orthodox, why do you call yourself Anglican? Why do you call yourself protestant? Protesting agianst whom? The Church that is Pillar and foundation of truth? 1Timothy 3:15

Anyhow here is an example of Protestant Organization that can not send any of his members to Heaven denying baptism:
"Denial of the Necessity of Baptism — The Salvation Army administers no baptism. They assert that it is not necessary “in order to receive salvation.” They reason that there are climates and circumstances which would make immersion impractical, so only repentance and faith are required (Handbook, pp. 185-186)."

Here is Salvation Army noit having Holy Communion for eternal life:
"The Lord’s Supper Excluded — The Salvation Army makes no provision for the celebration of the Lord’s Supper. Jesus plainly said of the memorial supper, “This do in remembrance of me” (1 Cor. 11:24). The Salvation Army excludes it so that they might testify to themselves and others “against the danger of trusting to any external rite as though it has a virtue in itself” (Handbook, p. 188). Such is the “testimony” of arrogance and unbelief."

« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 09:09:23 PM by pasadi97 » Logged
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« Reply #127 on: December 31, 2011, 09:09:38 PM »

Anyhow here is an example of Protestant Organization that can not send any of his members to Heaven denying baptism:
"Denial of the Necessity of Baptism — The Salvation Army administers no baptism. They assert that it is not necessary “in order to receive salvation.” They reason that there are climates and circumstances which would make immersion impractical, so only repentance and faith are required (Handbook, pp. 185-186)."

I would agree that they have gone too far and made an incorrect decision, but why then do you make the problem worse by talking about none of them going to heaven? Isn't that God's decision? Or have I misunderstood you?
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« Reply #128 on: December 31, 2011, 09:23:55 PM »

There were two men. One built a house near a water and another one built a house on a Hill. The waters grew up and the house near the water was taken by the waters. The house on the Hill remained.

Anyhow many people today build their houses near the water including people reading this thread.

People building their house near the water are the people believing in their ability and powers. I will go 20 miles. I will marry a good girl. I will choose the right religion. My religion is right because I see this that I like and this that I like and I feel well received and I am happy and I have a great time. The keyword is I have abity to discern by MYSELF that this religion is right.

No, these are the people building the house near the waters. The key words for these people are I and ME and I CAN and I SEE and MY ABILITIES... 1 billion muslims are right now in islam some with very high IQ anyhow the problem is that they are there and believe is the right decision because they did NOT ASK GOD about it. By the way not being baptized, they can not see Heaven John 3:3, John 3:5

The people building their house on the hill are the people that understand the limitation of their abilities and ask God for help and guidance. God does intervene when asked to intervene and when you don't know something pray to God to explain it to you. Building the house on the hill means to pray to God and to ask God to help you.


For example for salvation:
BUilding house on the water means I will do 25 prayers a day and I will go every Sunday to Church and help 15 people a day. How do you know by your powers that this is enough. What if you are in Salvation Army that gives you no Baptism so you can not enter in heaven. What if you are in a Church that teaches errors and is not established by God being established by men and what if Holy Spirit does not come there and baptism is invalid. Are you screwed or not? How can you tell by yourself and by your abilities since the Church established by Jesus in year 33 is the pillar or truth 1 Timothy 3:15?

This is my great lesson at the beggining of next year. Never forget to build your house on rock , NOT near the water and pray to God to force you to salvation. Base your salvation not on your abilities however on God's abilities. Same for marriage, job, and things you want to go best. One thing is to believe your religion is right because God told you so and some other thing is to say my religion is right because I observed this and that and I have ability to discern. The later is a NO NO...
« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 09:33:42 PM by pasadi97 » Logged
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« Reply #129 on: December 31, 2011, 09:39:00 PM »

I asked God to be my religion teacher and one thing that I found is this: No baptism no Heaven John 3:3 John 3:5 Mark 16:16 No Holy Communion no Immortality John 6:53-54 So these people missed both. Many people with "I see" and "I am able to discern" may end in this trap. I am not saying Jesus can not administer them after death since Jesus is Priest or that other ways of administering them are not possible.

Second advice is this. If on deathbed and if sick angels came for protocols, ask Jesus immediately or saint to come and to help you through confession, administering of Holy Communion, baptism if needed and such. Many people did that and ended great. Say: Dear Jesus please forgive me for wasting my life since I see sick angels here thus not being worthy . Please come to me and move me to Heaven and give me baptism or confession or Holy Communion if needed and please move me to Heaven FOR ETERNITIES and give me what you know I need for all eternities. Amen.

Also if you know about somebody dying say the above prayer inb his name. Once I had a RC friend and he had a car accident. And I said:

" In the name of XXXX I say this prayer: Dear Jesus please forgive me for wasting my life since I see sick angels here thus not being worthy . Please come to me and move me to Heaven and give me baptism or confession or Holy Communion if needed and please move me to Heaven FOR ETERNITIES and give me what you know I need for all eternities. Amen."

So then he comes several days later saying: I was in car accident and I died starting to be separated from God. Anyhow at a moment I heard my voice praying, even if I did not pray there, so my voice was praying and asked for Jesus to come and Jesus did came and examined me and sent me back to life and I become live again. I did not tell him about my prayer. So you can do this too if you know about somebody being dead, soon or not.

The prayers for the departed DO WORK and this is an Orthodox Teaching.

The deadline I gave you to post a defense of your doctrines against challenges (see post below) has come and gone without you doing anything to comply with my directive, so you are now on post moderation until you do what I asked you to do. If you think this action wrong, feel free to appeal it via private message to Veniamin.

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« Reply #130 on: January 01, 2012, 12:20:08 AM »

Pasadi97,

You presume to teach us, yet you still refuse to engage those posts that challenge your teachings or show your arguments false. This behavior is not permitted on this forum. Before you submit another post on this thread, I need you to answer the charges made in Replies #114, 115, 117, 119, 122, 124, and 125. If you do not answer these charges within the next 72 hours (8:00 p.m. Pacific Standard Time on Tuesday, January 3), you will be placed on post moderation until you do. While on post moderation, every one of your posts will need to be screened by a moderator before it will appear in the forum, a very serious restriction I hope you will work to avoid.

Your time of dodging challenges to your doctrines has come to an end. You must now answer them.

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« Reply #131 on: January 01, 2012, 10:33:38 AM »

If you have same beliefs as with Eastern orthodox, why do you call yourself Anglican? Why do you call yourself protestant? Protesting agianst whom? The Church that is Pillar and foundation of truth? 1Timothy 3:15

I call myself an Anglican because I am a communicant of the Episcopal Church which is part of the Anglican Communion. I'm not a member of any E.O. jurisdiction so I don't refer to myself in that way.  I don't generally call myself a Protestant. 

Quote
The Salvation Army

Thank you for giving an example.  I'll have to look up the citations later. 
The S.A. is only one organization and having learned a bit of the history and reasons for the creation of this group I can understand *why* they don't do that, even if I don't agree with them. 
The Salvation Army was begun to help people who were in dire horrible conditions: the slums of London where drugs and drink and other vice were rampant.  They went to help human beings that apparently other Churches weren't.  General William Booth is quoted as saying that what was needed to help people at the very bottom of society was "Soup, Soap and then Salvation"
http://www.salvationarmy.org/heritage.nsf/36c107e27b0ba7a98025692e0032abaa/c7b6bcea0572c44080256b8a00536c07!OpenDocument
 
Sounds like an embodiment of part of the Epistle of James to me.


Quote
the “testimony” of arrogance and unbelief.

I disagree that it's "arrogance" when one looks at what the S.A. does in the world to help people who have experienced disasters or are suffering.
It's not "unbelief".  Here's a link to the S.A.'s official doctrines:i
http://www.salvationarmy.org/ihq%5Cwww_sa.nsf/vw-sublinks/4FBD2041D52325CC80256D4E003B6CFA?openDocument

It's not all like E.O., I know.  But taking two snips without knowing the context doesn't give a good understanding of another group.  And one example doesn't apply to all Churches that are not yours.

Ebor




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« Reply #132 on: January 02, 2012, 03:57:11 AM »


Here is Salvation Army noit having Holy Communion for eternal life:
"The Lord’s Supper Excluded — The Salvation Army makes no provision for the celebration of the Lord’s Supper. Jesus plainly said of the memorial supper, “This do in remembrance of me” (1 Cor. 11:24). The Salvation Army excludes it so that they might testify to themselves and others “against the danger of trusting to any external rite as though it has a virtue in itself” (Handbook, p. 188). Such is the “testimony” of arrogance and unbelief."


This is misleading. SA take communion at home within their families (those i know, do). They don't take communion collectively in the church building because they don't want it to become a ritual as stated in their literature it's true but to imply that they don't take communion at all is not correct.
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« Reply #133 on: January 02, 2012, 06:11:10 AM »


Here is Salvation Army noit having Holy Communion for eternal life:
"The Lord’s Supper Excluded — The Salvation Army makes no provision for the celebration of the Lord’s Supper. Jesus plainly said of the memorial supper, “This do in remembrance of me” (1 Cor. 11:24). The Salvation Army excludes it so that they might testify to themselves and others “against the danger of trusting to any external rite as though it has a virtue in itself” (Handbook, p. 188). Such is the “testimony” of arrogance and unbelief."


This is misleading. SA take communion at home within their families (those i know, do). They don't take communion collectively in the church building because they don't want it to become a ritual as stated in their literature it's true but to imply that they don't take communion at all is not correct.
Yeah, but it isn't required and that's just as bad.

http://www.waterbeachsalvationarmy.org.uk/live/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53:why-does-the-salvation-army-not-baptise-or-hold-communion&catid=34:information&Itemid=58
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Rather, the Army believes that it is possible to live a holy life and receive the grace of God without the use of physical sacraments and that they should not be regarded as an essential part of becoming a Christian.
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« Reply #134 on: January 02, 2012, 09:11:21 AM »

You know, when we get as far as the Salvation Army as an exemplar of Protestantism, we may not have hit the bottom of the sea but we can definitely touch it with our toes. Look, the message in this is that when one starts addressing specific practical deviancy like this, you can typically find lots of other Protestant bodies that don't accept the "change", and typically the more "deviant" the change, the larger the body that adheres to an "orthodox" position. The message is that it is illegitimate to use Protestantism as a principle in this manner.
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