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Offline pasadi97

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Protestant orthodox debate
« on: November 11, 2011, 10:20:04 AM »
I need help. I invite everybody to a debate that I need for a project. The idea is to debate about where the truth is.

I hope God will give salvation to everybody participating and that everybody will learn from it. If at the end we will agree to disagree, fine.

I will start with an introduction as to why Orthodoxy is true.

Historical perspective:

Jesus came in year 33 and first Church was established in year 33 in Jerusalem not in year 1500+ when first Protestant Church was established. The same Church established in year 33, where Holy Light miracle happens every year is even today in Eastern orthodox Church.

In Bible we find several Churches: Ephess, Corinth, Antioch. All these Churches with one exception, the Church of Rome, are today in Eastern Orthodox Church.

Here we have the list of all Eastern Orthodox Leaders of Church of Jerusalem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Orthodox_Patriarch_of_Jerusalem
as we see there is a continuity of this Church from the time of apostles to today.

Belief continuity

We have the Liturgy of Apostle James believed to be written in year 60  that is celebrated even today in some Eastern Orthodox Churches. Also we have the Holy Liturgies of Apostles Mark, Peter ,Thomas  and through these we know what Christians did on Sundays. These Holy Liturgies were giving food for eternal life to people.

In Protestant Churches the Holy Liturgy was replaced with sermon however we do see Holy Liturgies on Eastern Orthodox Church. THERE IS NO SERMON BASED, ICONOCLAST CHURCH FOR FIRST 1500 YEARS OF CHRISTIANITY.

We see in Church history people having icons and fighting against iconoclasm and the same attitude we find in Eastern Orthodox Church today. However we find the iconoclast atitude in protestantism. Even if images are prohibited we do see people of protestanbt faith having imegs, pictures, albums and US being a great movie producer. So to say that images are interdicted and then to have images shows an inconsistency of Protestant doctrine.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 10:54:03 AM by pasadi97 »
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2011, 03:03:16 PM »
Alot of protestants believe that the church went off the rails immediately after the death of St. John due to the influx of former polythiests who became converts. Folks like Clement, Polycarp, Ignatius, Clement, Irenaus, etc. totally warped the Christian Church and was in apostasy until the reformation. Some protestants (who are called landmarkists) state that the early heresies were in reality ancient "protestants" for lack of a better word, that were pushed down by the official church and demonized. Their "trail of blood" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trail_of_Blood, although completely silly, is kind of interesting......interesting in the same way that some folks claim the Earth is infested by the "Reptoids" and connect their little dots.

Of course to really hold to that one must pretty much deny alot of history and common sense and a good bit of scripture thrown into the mix (...the gates of hell will never overcome, etc)

PP

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Offline Ebor

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2011, 04:20:20 PM »
What do you mean by "Protestant" please?  It isn't one monolithic block just for starters.  Do you have any particular Church or group in mind? 

Why 1500?  Are you thinking of Martin Luther? 

Why should your opinions of any other Church be regarded as true?  What real knowledge do you have about them and will you back up your statements with sources that others can check? 

Will you take other people's ideas into account?

Is this for a "project" in real rather than on-line encounters?

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Offline FountainPen

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2011, 08:48:53 PM »
Of course to really hold to that one must pretty much deny alot of history and common sense and a good bit of scripture thrown into the mix (...the gates of hell will never overcome, etc)

I've been told that the birth of Protestantism was the victorious church breaking through.
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Offline Cognomen

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2011, 10:05:30 PM »
I've been told that the birth of Protestantism was the victorious church breaking through.

Ahh, the feckless God theory.
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Offline jnorm888

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2011, 10:32:55 PM »
Of course to really hold to that one must pretty much deny alot of history and common sense and a good bit of scripture thrown into the mix (...the gates of hell will never overcome, etc)

I've been told that the birth of Protestantism was the victorious church breaking through.

I thought the Reformed church started over eating sausages during the lenten fast?
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Offline jnorm888

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2011, 10:39:28 PM »
Alot of protestants believe that the church went off the rails immediately after the death of St. John due to the influx of former polythiests who became converts. Folks like Clement, Polycarp, Ignatius, Clement, Irenaus, etc. totally warped the Christian Church and was in apostasy until the reformation. Some protestants (who are called landmarkists) state that the early heresies were in reality ancient "protestants" for lack of a better word, that were pushed down by the official church and demonized. Their "trail of blood" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trail_of_Blood, although completely silly, is kind of interesting......interesting in the same way that some folks claim the Earth is infested by the "Reptoids" and connect their little dots.

Of course to really hold to that one must pretty much deny alot of history and common sense and a good bit of scripture thrown into the mix (...the gates of hell will never overcome, etc)

PP


Not all protestants believe that. However, the ones that do would be known as Restorationist. From the top of my head I would say that the Anabaptists, and the Cambellites(churches of christ) would be restorationistic in nature. You also might find some among the Baptists(landmark) as well.

But not all protestants are Restorationists. Originally, the protestants only wanted to Reform the western church, not Restore it.


There is a difference in degree. A Reformer believes the church fell off the rails slowly and over a long period of time (only to be set right whenever so and so's reformed group began), while a Restorer believes the church fell off the rails quickly, only to be restored or brought back into existence when the founder of whatever restorationist group began.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 10:47:31 PM by jnorm888 »
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Offline FountainPen

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2011, 02:47:27 AM »
I've been told that the birth of Protestantism was the victorious church breaking through.

Ahh, the feckless God theory.

Yeh, hard to Adam-and-Eve it!

 ;)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 02:48:48 AM by FountainPen »
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2011, 05:05:59 AM »
I've been told that the birth of Protestantism was the victorious church breaking through.

Ahh, the feckless God theory.

Yeh, hard to Adam-and-Eve it!

 ;)
Cockney rhyming slang freaking blows my mind lol.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2011, 05:08:45 AM »
Of course to really hold to that one must pretty much deny alot of history and common sense and a good bit of scripture thrown into the mix (...the gates of hell will never overcome, etc)

I've been told that the birth of Protestantism was the victorious church breaking through.
I'm not sure how this would work out. Did Hell triumph over the Church of Rome and then get beaten back? Luther and Calvin both said Gregory the Great was the last good Pope, IIRC.

Offline akimori makoto

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2011, 08:44:32 AM »
I've been told that the birth of Protestantism was the victorious church breaking through.

Ahh, the feckless God theory.

Yeh, hard to Adam-and-Eve it!

 ;)
Cockney rhyming slang freaking blows my mind lol.

Australians do it too. More shame for my shame-pile.
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2011, 08:54:24 AM »
I've been told that the birth of Protestantism was the victorious church breaking through.

Ahh, the feckless God theory.

Yeh, hard to Adam-and-Eve it!

 ;)
Cockney rhyming slang freaking blows my mind lol.

Australians do it too. More shame for my shame-pile.
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2011, 07:50:03 AM »
The problem with this view is that there is not a consistent doctrine from that time to present. See Apostle James and most apostles wrote Holy Liturgies that describe in detail what Christians did on Sunday and these are nowhere to be found in Protestantism today. Also icons found in these groups , and icons are not found in Protestantism today.

Also when Luther came, his followers came from Roman Catholic Church, Luther and others too so if a clandestine Church would break from underground, why would all New Protestants would be Romano Catholics and not Underground people? Why would they not say we were part of underground Church and here is our heritage you can trace back to Jesus and doctrine you can trace back to origins? I don't think we should take these lightly since many people renounce food for eternal life without even knowing it by going to Protestantism.

Protestantism = religious groups appearing after 1500 . That is 1500+ years after Jesus established his Church in Jerusalem

Alot of protestants believe that the church went off the rails immediately after the death of St. John due to the influx of former polythiests who became converts. Folks like Clement, Polycarp, Ignatius, Clement, Irenaus, etc. totally warped the Christian Church and was in apostasy until the reformation. Some protestants (who are called landmarkists) state that the early heresies were in reality ancient "protestants" for lack of a better word, that were pushed down by the official church and demonized. Their "trail of blood" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trail_of_Blood, although completely silly, is kind of interesting......interesting in the same way that some folks claim the Earth is infested by the "Reptoids" and connect their little dots.

Of course to really hold to that one must pretty much deny alot of history and common sense and a good bit of scripture thrown into the mix (...the gates of hell will never overcome, etc)

PP


« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 07:53:33 AM by pasadi97 »
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Offline sprtslvr1973

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2011, 02:41:44 PM »
Do debates, or alt least religious/philosophical ever really do anything?
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Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2011, 02:53:48 PM »
Hasn't every other thread in this sub-forum explored what the OP has posted?  ::)

Furthermore, the OP fails to recognize the Liturgical tradition of the Anglican/Episcopalian and Methodist Churches. Furthermore, to ignore the nuances in theology within the various Protestant sects just shows that your ignorance about them is about as great as the 98% of Americans who are ignorant about us. (After all, we're just like Catholics but without the Pope, right?)

Thus, this "debate" thread should prove to be fruitless quickly.
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2011, 03:54:24 PM »
Well I can only speak of experience that i have in my locality. What I explained is what the vast majority of protestants (evan. hyper-con baptists) believe here.

PP
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2011, 04:59:38 PM »
Do debates, or alt least religious/philosophical ever really do anything?

The OP already crushed this answer elsewhere. If the following doesn't make a Protestant jump ship in a lick, I don't know what else will.

Protestantism explained.

At the beginning there was a company named Airbus that produced a valid Airbus manual used to build an Airbus plane that would flie safely. Everybody was happy.

1500 from this company some people used their mind to build their own plane. They called themself Protestants and used their mind to build their own plane they called Protestant Airbus. So at beginning they said that the original manual is false. First thing they were thinking as to why the glasses on the window are neccesary and they tought that these glasses impact people viewing the outside.

So hammer please said Luther, and Calvin and smash....all windows gone. This is how we do protest. The new plane while having the Engine thus being able to fly, would not protect the lifes of passengers so it was almost useless. In religion protestantism  has lost eternal life.

Then many groups were formed starting debates saying engine only, or we believe wings only or some other meanless crap. Some were adding bigger wings saying we are true since it is Wings only and such we have the bigger wings and such.

The Protest and revolutions continued and some extravangt groups took engine out and smashed it.  They were from the Wings only group that took their name seriously.

What can I say more.

Single greatest statement ever made on THE Great Apostasy.

Time to come back to the airfield, our Wings-Only friends.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 04:59:58 PM by orthonorm »
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Offline Ebor

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2011, 07:47:55 PM »
Hasn't every other thread in this sub-forum explored what the OP has posted?  ::)

Furthermore, the OP fails to recognize the Liturgical tradition of the Anglican/Episcopalian and Methodist Churches. Furthermore, to ignore the nuances in theology within the various Protestant sects just shows that your ignorance about them is about as great as the 98% of Americans who are ignorant about us. (After all, we're just like Catholics but without the Pope, right?)

Thus, this "debate" thread should prove to be fruitless quickly.

Thank you for this, HandmaidenofGod.   :)

I also wondered if this was to be a "debate" would the OP actually read and follow any counter-information/arguments that are about anything that is really from a Protestant Church and address them seriously rather than making unfounded or confusing statements and not answering other people's questions

Ebor
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Offline FountainPen

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2011, 03:04:14 AM »
Protestantism explained.

At the beginning there was a company named Airbus that produced a valid Airbus manual used to build an Airbus plane that would flie safely. Everybody was happy.

1500 from this company some people used their mind to build their own plane. They called themself Protestants and used their mind to build their own plane they called Protestant Airbus. So at beginning they said that the original manual is false. First thing they were thinking as to why the glasses on the window are neccesary and they tought that these glasses impact people viewing the outside.

So hammer please said Luther, and Calvin and smash....all windows gone. This is how we do protest. The new plane while having the Engine thus being able to fly, would not protect the lifes of passengers so it was almost useless. In religion protestantism  has lost eternal life.

Then many groups were formed starting debates saying engine only, or we believe wings only or some other meanless crap. Some were adding bigger wings saying we are true since it is Wings only and such we have the bigger wings and such.

The Protest and revolutions continued and some extravangt groups took engine out and smashed it.  They were from the Wings only group that took their name seriously.

What can I say more.

Cute!
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2011, 03:06:03 AM »
Protestantism explained.

At the beginning there was a company named Airbus that produced a valid Airbus manual used to build an Airbus plane that would flie safely. Everybody was happy.

1500 from this company some people used their mind to build their own plane. They called themself Protestants and used their mind to build their own plane they called Protestant Airbus. So at beginning they said that the original manual is false. First thing they were thinking as to why the glasses on the window are neccesary and they tought that these glasses impact people viewing the outside.

So hammer please said Luther, and Calvin and smash....all windows gone. This is how we do protest. The new plane while having the Engine thus being able to fly, would not protect the lifes of passengers so it was almost useless. In religion protestantism  has lost eternal life.

Then many groups were formed starting debates saying engine only, or we believe wings only or some other meanless crap. Some were adding bigger wings saying we are true since it is Wings only and such we have the bigger wings and such.

The Protest and revolutions continued and some extravangt groups took engine out and smashed it.  They were from the Wings only group that took their name seriously.

What can I say more.

Cute!
Isn't he adorable lol?

Offline FountainPen

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2011, 03:20:33 AM »
Protestantism explained.

At the beginning there was a company named Airbus that produced a valid Airbus manual used to build an Airbus plane that would flie safely. Everybody was happy.

1500 from this company some people used their mind to build their own plane. They called themself Protestants and used their mind to build their own plane they called Protestant Airbus. So at beginning they said that the original manual is false. First thing they were thinking as to why the glasses on the window are neccesary and they tought that these glasses impact people viewing the outside.

So hammer please said Luther, and Calvin and smash....all windows gone. This is how we do protest. The new plane while having the Engine thus being able to fly, would not protect the lifes of passengers so it was almost useless. In religion protestantism  has lost eternal life.

Then many groups were formed starting debates saying engine only, or we believe wings only or some other meanless crap. Some were adding bigger wings saying we are true since it is Wings only and such we have the bigger wings and such.

The Protest and revolutions continued and some extravangt groups took engine out and smashed it.  They were from the Wings only group that took their name seriously.

What can I say more.

Cute!
Isn't he adorable lol?

If i was his mum i'd probably agree. This analogy however, leaves me speechless #laughs

Probably end up as POM #shakes head
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Offline jnorm888

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2011, 04:41:09 AM »
Do debates, or alt least religious/philosophical ever really do anything?

Yes! Just look at all the debates of the past 2,000 years!

For me, it helps me understand the Faith better, it helps me understand why I believe what I am suppose to as a Christian, as well as how to explain it better to others.
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Offline Punch

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2011, 11:41:29 AM »
To the OP -

Instead of an internet debate, why don't you get a copy of Christian Dogmatics by Francis Pieper and Orthodox Dogmatic Theology by Michael Pomazansky.  Pieper was a former President of the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod at the turn of the last century, and Fr. Pomazansky was a respected theologian in the ROCOR who lived a little later than Pieper, but who's life overlapped Pieper's somewhat.  Both works are highly regarded by their respective Churches, and both were written at a time before modernism had made serious inroads into the Churches.  I am sure that between the two, you will find all that you need to argue either side of your "debate".  It would be an interesting project indeed.
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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2011, 03:41:11 PM »
Of course to really hold to that one must pretty much deny alot of history and common sense and a good bit of scripture thrown into the mix (...the gates of hell will never overcome, etc)

I've been told that the birth of Protestantism was the victorious church breaking through.

I thought the Reformed church started over eating sausages during the lenten fast?
That wasn't the wurst of it.
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2011, 03:56:30 PM »
Of course to really hold to that one must pretty much deny alot of history and common sense and a good bit of scripture thrown into the mix (...the gates of hell will never overcome, etc)

I've been told that the birth of Protestantism was the victorious church breaking through.

I thought the Reformed church started over eating sausages during the lenten fast?
That wasn't the wurst of it.

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Offline dcommini

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2011, 03:58:07 PM »
I thought the Reformed church started over eating sausages during the lenten fast?
That wasn't the wurst of it.

 ::)
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2011, 04:19:34 PM »
Of course to really hold to that one must pretty much deny alot of history and common sense and a good bit of scripture thrown into the mix (...the gates of hell will never overcome, etc)

I've been told that the birth of Protestantism was the victorious church breaking through.

I thought the Reformed church started over eating sausages during the lenten fast?
That wasn't the wurst of it.

Wow. No. Really. Wow.
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Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2011, 05:26:50 PM »
Hasn't every other thread in this sub-forum explored what the OP has posted?  ::)

Furthermore, the OP fails to recognize the Liturgical tradition of the Anglican/Episcopalian and Methodist Churches. Furthermore, to ignore the nuances in theology within the various Protestant sects just shows that your ignorance about them is about as great as the 98% of Americans who are ignorant about us. (After all, we're just like Catholics but without the Pope, right?)

Thus, this "debate" thread should prove to be fruitless quickly.

Thank you for this, HandmaidenofGod.   :)

I also wondered if this was to be a "debate" would the OP actually read and follow any counter-information/arguments that are about anything that is really from a Protestant Church and address them seriously rather than making unfounded or confusing statements and not answering other people's questions

Ebor

Glad to be of service. ;)

I also would wonder the same thing. The problem with these "debates" is that usually the people who initiate them are not at all interested in discussing the various ideas concerning theology, but really just want to push whatever ideas they have on others.

Journals such as "Touchstone" magazine are a real world example of how members of the various traditions within Christianity can have a discussion and come to points of agreement, without abandoning their beliefs or faith tradition.

Also, what tends to happen in these discussions is people use polar examples to prove their point, when it doesn't really address where most people lie: somewhere in the middle.

I also don't like lumping all Protestants in one group. It isn't intellectually honest to the beliefs of the various groups.

My mother is one of three sisters. Although they are all Protestant, when the three of them sit down to discuss religion, there isn't a consensus between them. One is Baptist, another is Pentecostal/Charismatic, and the third belongs to a group that considers themselves Christian, but only observe Jewish holidays.

If such disagreement can exist in the small microcosm of the population that is my family, what is to be said about the rest of Christianity?
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2011, 06:12:07 PM »
Seriously? They don't even agree about salvation or the Deity of Christ?

Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2011, 06:15:18 PM »
Seriously? They don't even agree about salvation or the Deity of Christ?

Nope. And that's just among the three sisters.

I haven't even mentioned the Catholic, Jewish, and Bhuddist members of my family!!  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2011, 06:18:31 PM »
And you've asked them this? I don't question your honesty, but I have a really hard time believing the Baptist and the Pentecostal would disagree on such basics (unless she's Oneness?)

Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2011, 06:23:39 PM »
And you've asked them this? I don't question your honesty, but I have a really hard time believing the Baptist and the Pentecostal would disagree on such basics (unless she's Oneness?)

I never said that. I said that there are parts of their faith they disagree one. Between the three sisters though, not all agree on the divinity of Christ.(Baptist and Pentacostal, yes, the third, not so much.) Considering they were all raised in a highly devout Catholic home, for the three of them to diverge so wildly is telling. 

My point is not to dissect the beliefs of my aunts and my mother for all to examine and criticize, but rather to make the point that the theology of Protestants varies widely from group to group.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 06:25:01 PM by HandmaidenofGod »
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2011, 06:30:48 PM »
And I'm saying for those of us who believe there can be a certain "little o" orthodoxy common to Protestants, your point is not really convincing for just this reason. We would say based on the above that the status of your Messianic aunt as an actual Christian is in question (depending on specifics).

Offline Ebor

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2011, 12:47:38 AM »
Protestantism explained.

At the beginning there was a company named Airbus that produced a valid Airbus manual used to build an Airbus plane that would flie safely. Everybody was happy.

1500 from this company some people used their mind to build their own plane. They called themself Protestants and used their mind to build their own plane they called Protestant Airbus. So at beginning they said that the original manual is false. First thing they were thinking as to why the glasses on the window are neccesary and they tought that these glasses impact people viewing the outside.

So hammer please said Luther, and Calvin and smash....all windows gone. This is how we do protest. The new plane while having the Engine thus being able to fly, would not protect the lifes of passengers so it was almost useless. In religion protestantism  has lost eternal life.

Then many groups were formed starting debates saying engine only, or we believe wings only or some other meanless crap. Some were adding bigger wings saying we are true since it is Wings only and such we have the bigger wings and such.

The Protest and revolutions continued and some extravangt groups took engine out and smashed it.  They were from the Wings only group that took their name seriously.

What can I say more.

Cute!

Not particularly referring to reality is what I'd call it.  Maybe it's just me, but I don't follow what the "windows" are supposed to represent in this little parable.  I doubt that they're supposed to mean the corruption in the hierarchy or the sale of indulgences for example. 

It also doesn't seem to relate to much that is really having to do with any particular Church or religious movement.   The OP hasn't shown that he/she really knows *anything* about some real history of the Reformation or what real Anglicans or Lutherans or etc etc believe and do.

Sorry for being grumpy

Ebor

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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2011, 12:57:40 AM »
I think he means the windshield is tradition and the Fathers so as to prevent a wild proliferation of Bible interpretations and schisms.

Offline Ebor

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2011, 01:14:12 AM »
I think he means the windshield is tradition and the Fathers so as to prevent a wild proliferation of Bible interpretations and schisms.

There are some allegories and metaphors that can be easy to understand.... windshields/windows as being "tradition" is one that I don't really see.   ;)
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2011, 01:23:44 AM »
I think he means the windshield is tradition and the Fathers so as to prevent a wild proliferation of Bible interpretations and schisms.

There are some allegories and metaphors that can be easy to understand.... windshields/windows as being "tradition" is one that I don't really see.   ;)
Well, I guess you could compare the wind that is shielded is "every wind of doctrine" or the demons which attempt to inspire false doctrine.

Offline Ebor

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2011, 02:10:44 AM »
I think he means the windshield is tradition and the Fathers so as to prevent a wild proliferation of Bible interpretations and schisms.

There are some allegories and metaphors that can be easy to understand.... windshields/windows as being "tradition" is one that I don't really see.   ;)
Well, I guess you could compare the wind that is shielded is "every wind of doctrine" or the demons which attempt to inspire false doctrine.

Ummm well, you *could* I guess.  But it still seems ahhhh really really forced.

 ;)
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2011, 04:08:41 AM »
I think he means the windshield is tradition and the Fathers so as to prevent a wild proliferation of Bible interpretations and schisms.

There are some allegories and metaphors that can be easy to understand.... windshields/windows as being "tradition" is one that I don't really see.   ;)
Well, I guess you could compare the wind that is shielded is "every wind of doctrine" or the demons which attempt to inspire false doctrine.

Ummm well, you *could* I guess.  But it still seems ahhhh really really forced.

 ;)
Yeah, I suppose. I don't support the analogy, anyway.

Offline Cavaradossi

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2011, 05:51:43 AM »
I think he means the windshield is tradition and the Fathers so as to prevent a wild proliferation of Bible interpretations and schisms.

There are some allegories and metaphors that can be easy to understand.... windshields/windows as being "tradition" is one that I don't really see.   ;)
Well, I guess you could compare the wind that is shielded is "every wind of doctrine" or the demons which attempt to inspire false doctrine.

Ummm well, you *could* I guess.  But it still seems ahhhh really really forced.

 ;)
Yeah, I suppose. I don't support the analogy, anyway.

Blasphemy! I, like Orthonorm, would like to invite all wings-only folk back to the original airplane of salvation. Engine-only heretics, however, need not apply.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 05:57:02 AM by Cavaradossi »
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Offline biro

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2011, 06:55:12 AM »
I like airports, but I don't like flying.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2011, 09:32:34 AM »
I think he means the windshield is tradition and the Fathers so as to prevent a wild proliferation of Bible interpretations and schisms.

There are some allegories and metaphors that can be easy to understand.... windshields/windows as being "tradition" is one that I don't really see.   ;)
Well, I guess you could compare the wind that is shielded is "every wind of doctrine" or the demons which attempt to inspire false doctrine.

Ummm well, you *could* I guess.  But it still seems ahhhh really really forced.

 ;)
Yeah, I suppose. I don't support the analogy, anyway.

Blasphemy! I, like Orthonorm, would like to invite all wings-only folk back to the original airplane of salvation. Engine-only heretics, however, need not apply.
:laugh: Pasadians unite!
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 09:33:00 AM by Volnutt »

Offline FountainPen

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #42 on: November 21, 2011, 11:54:57 AM »
Jesus came to tell everyone that keeping up maintenance on that pesky engine wasn't necessary any more. Many wouldn't listen and preferred to cling to the old style airbus. Wings-only HS inside, doesn't cancel out the old, it's simply an upgrade.
None of us can have as many virtues as the fountain pen, or half its cussedness; but we can try. Mark Twain

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2011, 12:53:16 PM »
Jesus came to tell everyone that keeping up maintenance on that pesky engine wasn't necessary any more. Many wouldn't listen and preferred to cling to the old style airbus. Wings-only HS inside, doesn't cancel out the old, it's simply an upgrade.
So I guess Paul went around teaching new pilots who had authority and building functioning airports because he had cash to blow......

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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Protestant orthodox debate
« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2011, 03:04:48 PM »
This thread is reaching levels of awesomeness that bring me to tears of joy!

And LOL @ FP's faith.

Awesome. I love the pasadogeltics!

Really, we gotta start merchandising this whole Pasadi thing.

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