However, the third reason I listed works both ways: we not give the glorification deserving of God to another, but neither should we "hold back" any veneration or devotion we hold towards an individual.
How can you say we mustn't hold back any veneration due? Glory to God obvious but where is the mandate concerning veneration?
"Veneration due" is "veneration due"; why would you want to hold back on something (anything) that is due to another?
I think it would help if I understood what you thought the difference between worship and veneration is, and where/how that line can be crossed.
I'm asking where the line is from you all?
Weeeell, your original question was along the lines of: "Look at how you venerate icons... don't you think that's a bit over the top??" -- which assumes already that we've crossed a line. We can't answer your question unless you tell us where you think this line is.
I could answer the question of what I think the difference between veneration and worship is (and if you ask me directly in your reply I will) but that's not answering your original question.
No, it's okay. There's enough info here for me to go on for now.
Could you answer my question, then? Where do you think the line between worship and veneration is?
The attitude behind the word is what defines the line, and basically it's understood only in context. Veneration, honour, adore, respect are all definitions of worship.
From a post I did on this subject earlier...
Wycliffe, in his translation of scripture into the English of the pre-Reformation 1300s quotes; "Worschipe thi fadir and thi modir" (Mark 7.10). Today, this verse is translated as "honour your father and mother".
The etymological origin and literal meaning of the English word “worship” is; wur’-ship (Anglo-Saxon: weorthscipe, wyrthscype, "honor," from weorth, wurth, "worthy," "honorable," and scipe, "ship" - in other words "conferring honour to those who are worthy of receiving it"). It's not an exclusively religious word and it traditionally includes several definitions and applications with regard to conferring honour – including adoration. Whilst, theologically speaking, adoration is the highest mode of conferring honour and is offered to God alone, it is still a definition of “worship”.
During the English Reformation, certain Christian communities under influences from Europe began to reject the worship of the Mother of God, along with that of the saints, angels, icons and relics. In many places there were widespread outbreaks of iconoclasm. Sacred images which had been worshipped for centuries by devout Christians came to be seen, by the Reformers, as idols. The English Reformers, emulating their European counterparts, argued the same biblical texts to justify their beliefs as the Eastern iconoclasts had done back in the early centuries of Christian history; so it isn’t unexpected that these items came to be treated as abominations; smashed, hacked to pieces, or burned. Communities which resisted the Reformation often hid their sacred images, and restored them to use when the opportunity arose. This was the case during the brief reign of Mary Tudor in England.
The English Reformation’s rejection of the worship of the Mother of God, saints, angels, icons and relics, had an odd consequence for the emerging Protestant usage of the English language. Since Protestants mistakenly assumed that God was the sole object of Christian worship, the word gradually began to be restricted in meaning and finally became treated solely as a synonym for "adore."
The English word "adoration" correctly translates from the Greek word "latreia" or the Latin "adoratio" or "adoratio latriae". Now, there can be no doubt that this is the utmost mode of worship; due to God and to God alone. Adoration as a mode of the utmost form of worship springs from the Christian’s acknowledgement of our absolute dependency on God as created beings. But let’s not forget that “adoration” is still a mode of worship; still a definition of "worship".
The English Reformation’s rejection of the worship of the saints, their relics and sacred images left no other definition of worship except for “adoration” in the Protestant mindset. Unfortunately, no distinction was made by Protestants between adoration and the other lesser, relative modes of worship, since none of them had survived in their religious practice.
Nonetheless, despite this manipulation of the English word, the older, broader concept of "worship" still survives to some degree in England. A mayor of a city is referred to as "your Worship," and, of course, this is completely without any suggestion that anyone is acknowledging that person as the Creator of the Universe. In the older version of the Anglican Marriage service the bride and bridegroom exchange rings, saying “with this ring, I thee wed, with my body I thee worship,". As we said these words, neither my husband nor myself were the slightest bit confused that either of us was acknowledging the other as the Creator of the Universe.
Unfortunately, this usage hasn't continued with our American neighbours, who seem to have managed to completely obliterate the broader meaning of the English “worship”, and made it a word that can now only to be used in connection with God. How far you have succeeded in this linguistic manipulation is evident with the Episcopalians who, from what I understand, have completely removed the line “with my body, I thee worship” from the marriage vows in the Common Book of Prayer. Perhaps if this phrase had remained within the Episcopalian movement, Americans might have retained a broader understanding of the English word “worship”, and not fallen into the Protestant trap. Often I see someone deny our worship of the Mother of God, the saints and relics, with the insistence that we merely venerate” Her. Of course, this completely misses the point, for veneration is simply a definition of the word "worship".
In Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) we find; Worship \Wor"ship\, n. [OE. worshipe, wur[eth]scipe, AS. weor[eth]scipe; weor[eth] worth + -scipe -ship…
1. Excellence of character; dignity; worth; worthiness. [Obs.] (Shakespeare)
A man of worship and honour. (Chaucer)
Elfin, born of noble state, And muckle worship in his native land. (Spenser)
2. Honour; respect; civil deference. [Obs.]
Of which great worth and worship may be won. (Spenser)
Then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat
With thee. (Luke 14:10). (*King James Version)
3. Hence, a title of honour, used in addresses to certain magistrates and others of
rank or station.
My father desires your worships' company. (Shakespeare)
4. The act of paying divine honours to the Supreme Being; religious reverence and
homage; adoration, or acts of reverence, paid to God, or a being viewed as God.
“God with idols in their worship joined.'' (Milton)
The worship of God is an eminent part of religion, and prayer is a chief part
of religious worship. (Tillotson)
5. Obsequious or submissive respect; extravagant admiration; adoration.
'T is your inky brows, your black silk hair, Your bugle eyeballs, nor your
cheek of cream, That can my spirits to your worship. (Shakespeare)
6. An object of worship.
In attitude and aspect formed to be at once the artist's worship and despair.