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Author Topic: Historic chalice seals relationship between 'Georgia' Baptists  (Read 1932 times) Average Rating: 0
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Jetavan
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« on: November 09, 2011, 06:16:36 AM »


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ATLANTA (ABP) – A friendship between the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship of Georgia and Baptists in the Caucasus Republic of Georgia that began with the coincidence of being “Georgians” grew deeper with return of a long-lost communion chalice that carries deep historical and theological significance for descendants of Baptists who suffered persecution at the hands of Soviet communism.

In 1946, Louie Newton, president of the Southern Baptist Convention and pastor of Druid Hills Baptist Church in Atlanta, [Georgia,] visited Russia on a five-week tour at the invitation of Soviet Premier Joseph Stalin to meet with leaders of the Union of Evangelical Christians-Baptists of Russia and investigate the status of its 2 million Baptists.
 
After his final sermon at First Baptist Church in Moscow, Newton was presented with a 19th-century gold-plated Florentine chalice that had been used in observance of the Lord’s Supper by an overflow congregation. Treasured by Newton, one religious newspaper labeled it “a holy grail of peace.”
 
Dating from 1868, the chalice had previously been used in observance of the Lord’s Supper at the church in Tiblisi, Georgia. In 1928 a Georgian minister was called to pastor the First Baptist Church in Moscow, the largest Baptist church in the Soviet Union, and the Baptists of Tbilisi asked him to accept the chalice as a symbol of fellowship.
 
Nobody living today in the Republic of Georgia knew of the chalice’s existence until Baptist Archbishop Malkhaz Songulashvili from Tbilisi [Georgian Baptists have bishops???!!!], while researching for a Ph.D. at Oxford University, came across records of the 1946 meeting between Newton and both religious and political leaders of the U.S.S.R.

Songulashvili contacted friends in the United States to ask about Newton’s archival materials....

Susan Broome, associate director for technical services at Mercer University in Macon, Ga., had befriended Songulashvili along with her husband, Frank, head of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship of Georgia....

Broome recalled a vague memory of a little-used room in Mercer’s chapel that was named after Newton. The next day she went there, turned the doorknob, found it unlocked, turned on the light and found the chalice right in front of her as a centerpiece of a display of photos, documents and other objects that belonged to Newton.
 
Last year Songulashvili attended the Georgia CBF meeting to celebrate discovery of the chalice, symbolic both because of Georgian Baptists highly liturgical worship tradition and memory of Baptist predecessors who used the cup at risk of persecution.
....
Mercer University turned possession of the chalice over to Songulashvili in a special Eucharist service Nov. 3. It was centerpiece of a worship service that opened the Georgia CBF annual meeting Nov. 6. After several stops, including a Eucharist at Duke Divinity School, the chalice will arrive in Georgia in time for Maundy Thursday next year.
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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2011, 06:30:41 AM »

Baptist Archbishop Malkhaz Songulashvili from Tbilisi [Georgian Baptists have bishops???!!!],

I met him a few times. He is responsible for the orthodoxification of the Baptist church in Georgia (to make them more legit in the eyes of the Orthodox majority). He and the other (male) bishops wear black robes, a panagia or pectoral cross, and have enormous beards.
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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2011, 06:42:00 AM »

Baptist Archbishop Malkhaz Songulashvili from Tbilisi [Georgian Baptists have bishops???!!!],

I met him a few times. He is responsible for the orthodoxification of the Baptist church in Georgia (to make them more legit in the eyes of the Orthodox majority). He and the other (male) bishops wear black robes, a panagia or pectoral cross, and have enormous beards.
Who ordained him a bishop?
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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2011, 07:13:22 AM »

Baptist Archbishop Malkhaz Songulashvili from Tbilisi [Georgian Baptists have bishops???!!!],

I met him a few times. He is responsible for the orthodoxification of the Baptist church in Georgia (to make them more legit in the eyes of the Orthodox majority). He and the other (male) bishops wear black robes, a panagia or pectoral cross, and have enormous beards.
Who ordained him a bishop?

Ah, there's the rub.  Wink
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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2011, 07:15:04 AM »

Who ordained him a bishop?

I'm not sure, but the Baptist church in Georgia has quite a long and complicated history. When the Georgian Church was forcefully subordinated to the Patriarchate of Moscow, the alternative for many who resisted was the Baptist church, rather than an Orthodox resistance group a la ROCOR. Thus, it should be seen more as a social organisation than one defined by its adherence to Baptis theology or practice, as is exemplified by the beards, robes, iconography, liturgy, episcopacy, etc. In essence they're extreme ecumenists - they incorporate a little bit of everything.

'Bishop' Malkhaz (holding the mic) with the other 'bishops' from their church in Tbilisi. Lovely people if nothing else:
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 07:22:35 AM by Orthodox11 » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2011, 08:31:58 AM »

There are other Protestant groups who have 'bishops'. It is, after all, in one sense, a designation of a particular pastoral and leadership ministry. In terms of simply using the word it doesn't have to be associated with the Apostolic Succession.
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« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2011, 01:41:59 PM »

Seems like LARP'ers to me.

PP
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« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2011, 01:53:01 PM »

Baptist Archbishop Malkhaz Songulashvili from Tbilisi [Georgian Baptists have bishops???!!!],

I met him a few times. He is responsible for the orthodoxification of the Baptist church in Georgia (to make them more legit in the eyes of the Orthodox majority). He and the other (male) bishops wear black robes, a panagia or pectoral cross, and have enormous beards.

....but, there seems to be a woman bishop, not just men.  Not quite emulating Orthodoxy.

Besides, I fear she'll have a hard time growing a beard.

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« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2011, 02:16:21 PM »

Baptist Archbishop Malkhaz Songulashvili from Tbilisi [Georgian Baptists have bishops???!!!],

I met him a few times. He is responsible for the orthodoxification of the Baptist church in Georgia (to make them more legit in the eyes of the Orthodox majority). He and the other (male) bishops wear black robes, a panagia or pectoral cross, and have enormous beards.

....but, there seems to be a woman bishop, not just men.  Not quite emulating Orthodoxy.

Besides, I fear she'll have a hard time growing a beard.


I think I see a Black guy in the background. I take it he's not a native Caucasian? Roll Eyes
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In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2011, 03:20:13 PM »

Who ordained him a bishop?

I'm not sure, but the Baptist church in Georgia has quite a long and complicated history. When the Georgian Church was forcefully subordinated to the Patriarchate of Moscow, the alternative for many who resisted was the Baptist church, rather than an Orthodox resistance group a la ROCOR. Thus, it should be seen more as a social organisation than one defined by its adherence to Baptis theology or practice, as is exemplified by the beards, robes, iconography, liturgy, episcopacy, etc. In essence they're extreme ecumenists - they incorporate a little bit of everything.

'Bishop' Malkhaz (holding the mic) with the other 'bishops' from their church in Tbilisi. Lovely people if nothing else:


wow, those guys are baptists???  Shocked
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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2011, 03:30:05 PM »

There are other Protestant groups who have 'bishops'. It is, after all, in one sense, a designation of a particular pastoral and leadership ministry. In terms of simply using the word it doesn't have to be associated with the Apostolic Succession.
"Baba, these people use the same words but they do not mean the same thing"-comment by my then 10 year old (now 14) in the Mormon Church's museum.
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« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2011, 03:44:24 PM »

There are other Protestant groups who have 'bishops'. It is, after all, in one sense, a designation of a particular pastoral and leadership ministry. In terms of simply using the word it doesn't have to be associated with the Apostolic Succession.
"Baba, these people use the same words but they do not mean the same thing"-comment by my then 10 year old (now 14) in the Mormon Church's museum.
Smart kid Smiley
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« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2011, 04:50:14 PM »

wow, those guys are baptists???  Shocked

Like I said, 'baptist' in Georgia basically means 'ecumenical mishmash'. It has little to do with the doctrines and forms of other baptist groups.
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« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2011, 05:02:04 PM »

There are other Protestant groups who have 'bishops'. It is, after all, in one sense, a designation of a particular pastoral and leadership ministry. In terms of simply using the word it doesn't have to be associated with the Apostolic Succession.
"Baba, these people use the same words but they do not mean the same thing"-comment by my then 10 year old (now 14) in the Mormon Church's museum.
Smart kid Smiley
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« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 05:02:36 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2011, 05:26:04 PM »

wow, those guys are baptists???  Shocked

Like I said, 'baptist' in Georgia basically means 'ecumenical mishmash'. It has little to do with the doctrines and forms of other baptist groups.

how funny...
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« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2011, 09:06:10 PM »

There are other Protestant groups who have 'bishops'. It is, after all, in one sense, a designation of a particular pastoral and leadership ministry. In terms of simply using the word it doesn't have to be associated with the Apostolic Succession.
"Baba, these people use the same words but they do not mean the same thing"-comment by my then 10 year old (now 14) in the Mormon Church's museum.

Out of the mouths of babes, indeed.
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« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2011, 11:20:06 PM »

This sickens me. Sad

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« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2011, 11:34:08 PM »

 can I ask an off tangent  cultural question here pls? in the chapel I see a lot of grass and flowers on the floors. is this a cultural tradition in Georgia? I ask this because this is the first time ever I have seen grass and flowers spread on the floor other than in Ethiopian custom. I obviously get excited and am fascinated by cultural stuff. so if someone would care to tell me I  would appreciate it. Thank you angel

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« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2011, 05:53:36 AM »

can I ask an off tangent  cultural question here pls? in the chapel I see a lot of grass and flowers on the floors. is this a cultural tradition in Georgia? I ask this because this is the first time ever I have seen grass and flowers spread on the floor other than in Ethiopian custom. I obviously get excited and am fascinated by cultural stuff. so if someone would care to tell me I  would appreciate it. Thank you angel

When I visited the floor was clean. It must have been because of some feast. Among the Eastern Orthodox there are various times of the year at which flowers are thrown around the church. In some Slavic churches the floor is often covered in hay during Christmas time.
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« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2011, 05:59:50 AM »

can I ask an off tangent  cultural question here pls? in the chapel I see a lot of grass and flowers on the floors. is this a cultural tradition in Georgia? I ask this because this is the first time ever I have seen grass and flowers spread on the floor other than in Ethiopian custom. I obviously get excited and am fascinated by cultural stuff. so if someone would care to tell me I  would appreciate it. Thank you angel

When I visited the floor was clean. It must have been because of some feast. Among the Eastern Orthodox there are various times of the year at which flowers are thrown around the church. In some Slavic churches the floor is often covered in hay during Christmas time.

 Interesting! thank you dear, I appreciate it Smiley so the hay would be symbolising the stable  no?
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« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2011, 06:01:23 AM »

. In some Slavic churches the floor is often covered in hay during Christmas time.

Or with calamus on Pentecost.
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« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2011, 06:07:42 AM »

. In some Slavic churches the floor is often covered in hay during Christmas time.

Or with calamus on Pentecost.

wow that's great, I am a sucker for these festive ceremonies, they make the feast days extra special and beautiful!
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