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Jetavan
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« on: November 07, 2011, 09:58:20 AM » |
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We bring in the Greeks to talk about what’s ahead as their country teeters.
It’s all about the Greeks in Europe this week, and really around the world. The Greeks’ debt. The Greeks’ crisis. The Greeks’ stunner of a sudden conversation about voting on whether or not to accept their own bail-out from Europe and the pain that would come with it.
The “hemlock ballot,” wags called it – and it’s off, apparently, already. Greece got in way over its head on debt and spending. Now it’s in a world of hurt and struggling over how to respond. In the Euro-zone, or out. In the streets, or off.
This hour On Point: we talk with Greeks about their close encounter with Greek tragedy, and ours. |
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« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 09:58:41 AM by Jetavan »
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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biro
Excelsior
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Toumarches
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Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Church
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Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου
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« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2011, 10:20:34 AM » |
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I read the headline kinda wrong. A teetering Greece? I think they had one of those at the park when I was a kid.  |
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« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 10:21:06 AM by biro »
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Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be? Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied. http://spcasuncoast.org/ |
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Alveus Lacuna
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« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2011, 12:00:06 PM » |
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Jason.Wike
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« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2011, 02:55:21 PM » |
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I don't know a lot about Greece but something I've heard many, many Greeks say is that no one in Greece pays their taxes... seems like that might be part of the problem. Its easy to blame bankers but if absolutely no one pays their taxes its the entire country/culture's fault.
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biro
Excelsior
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Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου
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« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2011, 03:17:52 PM » |
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I guess there's enough blame to go around. Hopefully they won't sink into the destitution that happened in some countries before WWII.  |
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Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be? Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied. http://spcasuncoast.org/ |
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Riddikulus
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« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2011, 04:46:29 PM » |
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I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.
Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)
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akimori makoto
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« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2011, 10:29:29 PM » |
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I just read yesterday that 65% of Greeks are opposed to the proposed austerity measures and that 75% of Greeks want to remain in the eurozone.
Given that the austerity measures are a necessary precondition for obtaining the foreign finance required to remain in the eurozone, how do these statistics make any sense?
My only explanations are rather politically incorrect.
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The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
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sainthieu
Abstractor of the Quintessence
High Elder
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Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
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« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2011, 11:08:03 PM » |
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Big financiers' heads (and a few others') should be carried on spears amid public jubilation,as they did to the princess of Lamballe.
Just an aside: Your politics are nauseous. What are you doing wasting your time in a Christian forum? Sheer hostility, I would imagine.
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« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 11:10:45 PM by sainthieu »
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Ionnis
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« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2011, 11:10:21 PM » |
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My only explanations are rather politically incorrect.
and probably correct. |
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"If you cannot find Christ in the beggar at the church door, you will not find Him in the chalice.” -The Divine John Chrysostom
“Till we can become divine, we must be content to be human, lest in our hurry for change we sink to something lower.” -Anthony Trollope
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augustin717
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« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2011, 11:12:18 PM » |
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Big financiers' heads (and a few others') should be carried on spears amid public jubilation,as they did to the princess of Lamballe.
Just an aside: Your politics are nauseous.
Just an aside: I feel the same about yours. And I would add they only amount to continually fellating those with money. |
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Ionnis
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« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2011, 11:18:25 PM » |
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^Lovely. You have a way with words... :-/
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« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 11:18:44 PM by Ionnis »
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"If you cannot find Christ in the beggar at the church door, you will not find Him in the chalice.” -The Divine John Chrysostom
“Till we can become divine, we must be content to be human, lest in our hurry for change we sink to something lower.” -Anthony Trollope
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biro
Excelsior
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Toumarches
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Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Church
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Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου
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« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2011, 12:08:39 AM » |
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Looks around for the ban hammer...
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Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be? Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied. http://spcasuncoast.org/ |
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Basil 320
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« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2011, 01:00:25 AM » |
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I don't blame the banks, I blame the people who allowed socialism to destroy the spirit of a great industrious, heroic people.
PASOK (the Pan Hellenic Socialist Movement), let by Andreas Papandreou, destroyed Greece. When his and the corruption of his government was exposed, he raised the pensions and expanded the government patronage and was reelected. Over 10% of the populous "works" for the government; retiring at early ages; and pensions were paid over a 14 month period. There's little if any manufacturing left. PASOK fully subsidized hotel and resort construction. But the abuse of the tourists encouraged the Turks to develop their beaches, so tourists now take their holiday's in Turkey; how appropriate!
The people who said "No" to Fascism and fought off the vile Communist civil war, are a minority living in villages and the islands (or emigrated); they do not live in Athens and its environs. Their PASOK government signed for the loans that they stole and couldn't afford to repay---now they blame the loaner and their terms? America, take a lesson from the Greeks, see where socialism leads...
"The Wall Street Journal" classified them over a year ago, "PIIGS," Portugal, Italy-Ireland, Greece, Spain.
Poor Prime Minister George Papandreou, he tried but his father's policies destroyed the majority of the people. "The sins of the father will be visited upon the son;" Is that the Old Testament quote? How applicable.
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« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 01:04:07 AM by Basil 320 »
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"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."
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TheMathematician
Banished and Disgraced
OC.net guru
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Jurisdiction: Serbian
Posts: 1,276
Formerly known as Montalo
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« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2011, 11:48:32 AM » |
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Looks around for the ban hammer...
here, use mine  |
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biro
Excelsior
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Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Church
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Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου
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« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2011, 01:21:31 PM » |
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Grazie, montalo. 
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Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be? Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied. http://spcasuncoast.org/ |
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Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
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Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,798
May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
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« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2011, 02:39:29 PM » |
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I don't blame the banks, I blame the people who allowed socialism to destroy the spirit of a great industrious, heroic people.
PASOK (the Pan Hellenic Socialist Movement), let by Andreas Papandreou, destroyed Greece. When his and the corruption of his government was exposed, he raised the pensions and expanded the government patronage and was reelected. Over 10% of the populous "works" for the government; retiring at early ages; and pensions were paid over a 14 month period. There's little if any manufacturing left. PASOK fully subsidized hotel and resort construction. But the abuse of the tourists encouraged the Turks to develop their beaches, so tourists now take their holiday's in Turkey; how appropriate!
The people who said "No" to Fascism and fought off the vile Communist civil war, are a minority living in villages and the islands (or emigrated); they do not live in Athens and its environs. Their PASOK government signed for the loans that they stole and couldn't afford to repay---now they blame the loaner and their terms? America, take a lesson from the Greeks, see where socialism leads...
"The Wall Street Journal" classified them over a year ago, "PIIGS," Portugal, Italy-Ireland, Greece, Spain.
Poor Prime Minister George Papandreou, he tried but his father's policies destroyed the majority of the people. "The sins of the father will be visited upon the son;" Is that the Old Testament quote? How applicable. That's most of the story; but that doesn't excuse the awful human invention of profiting on another's debt which then grows their debt. What banks did to the housing market they're doing to under-performing economies, hastening decline while lining their pockets. |
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"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
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Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
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Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
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Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,798
May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
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« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2011, 02:53:42 PM » |
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Greece should just default on their loans. They've done it before, and won in International Court when sued under the principle that their primary responsibility is to their citizens, and debt payments cannot be forced if it will prevent fulfilling its duties to said citizens. http://www.worldcourts.com/pcij/eng/decisions/1939.06.15_societe_commerciale.htm |
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« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 02:55:49 PM by Fr. George »
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"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
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Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
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« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2011, 03:04:58 PM » |
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I don't know a lot about Greece but something I've heard many, many Greeks say is that no one in Greece pays their taxes... seems like that might be part of the problem. Its easy to blame bankers but if absolutely no one pays their taxes its the entire country/culture's fault.
When I lived in Italy, I noticed that the national sport was not soccer but evading taxes (at least in the Southern half of the country). This is not my opinion or conclusion but something that almost all Italians that I spoke to agreed on. Another validation of Adam Smith and repudiation of Communists who do not know their Marx.. |
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Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
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« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2011, 03:20:23 PM » |
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Big financiers' heads (and a few others') should be carried on spears amid public jubilation,as they did to the princess of Lamballe.
Just an aside: Your politics are nauseous.
Just an aside: I feel the same about yours. And I would add they only amount to continually fellating those with money. You know that there is a better way of saying this. Even though this is part of the Free For All forum, the following rules still apply: * Respect Others -- Things can (and do) get heated on this board... Keep civil and respectful of others. * Proper Language -- Offensive terms may be bannable based on the context of the sentence. Please use common sense when posting. If you wouldn't say it in church, chances are it probably won't be appropriate here. I am posting this publicly so that all may be reminded of the rules. Thanks, Second Chance (not posting as this section's moderator) ADDED on 11/12/2011: Augustin--I took your egregious infraction of the rules to the Board. I have been authorized to put you on warning for 30 days. Any further infraction of the rules listed above will result in additional disciplinary actions. Second Chance |
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« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 09:56:29 AM by Second Chance »
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Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
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