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Author Topic: Kerry should be King...  (Read 2340 times) Average Rating: 0
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ania
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« on: August 18, 2004, 10:20:37 AM »

Kerry's Blue Blood a Winner, Say Royal Researchers
By Kate Kelland

LONDON (Reuters) - When it comes to American presidential elections, blue blood counts.

So say British researchers who predict Democratic challenger John Kerry will oust President Bush on Nov. 2 simply because he boasts more royal connections than his Republican rival.

After months of research into Kerry's ancestry, Burke's Peerage, experts on British aristocracy, reported Monday that the Vietnam war veteran is related to all the royal houses of Europe and can claim kinship with Czar Ivan "The Terrible," a previous Emperor of Byzantium and the Shahs of Persia.

Burke's director Harold Brooks-Baker said Kerry had his mother, Rosemary Forbes, to thank for most of his royal connections.

"Every maternal blood line of Kerry makes him more royal than any previous American president," Brooks-Baker said.

"Because of the fact that every presidential candidate with the most royal genes and chromosomes has always won the November presidential election, the coming election -- based on 42 previous presidents -- will go to John Kerry."

Similar research carried out on Bush ahead of the 2000 presidential race showed that he beat Al Gore in the royal stakes, claiming kinship with Britain's Queen Elizabeth as well as with Kings Henry III and Charles II of England.

IN THE COMPANY OF KINGS

Kerry is a descendant of the former Kings of England, Henry III and Henry II and is distantly related to Richard the Lionheart, who led the third Crusade in 1189, according to Burke's.

He is also descended from Henry I, King of France and his wife, Anne of Kiev, giving him kinship with the royal houses of Sweden, Norway, Denmark and the House of Rus.

Burke's research showed Kerry also has historical political connections in the United States.

He is closely related to John Winthrop, the first Massachusetts governor -- the state for which he is now a senator -- and his maternal grandmother was the granddaughter of Robert Winthrop, who was speaker of the House of Representatives from 1847 to 1849.
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Of course it is imprortant to note that Presidents Carter and Reagan were also both related to the main royal houses (and thus to each other, and to the Kennedy family, as well as to Dracula [Vlad Tepes IV of Wallachia]).
All of us has two parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great-grandparents, 16
great-great-grandparents, and then go 32, 64, 128, 256, 612, 1,224, 2,448, 4,896, and on and on and on. 30 generations ago we would have over a million ancestors, and each of them would have over a million ancestors if one went back another 30 generations.  
So ultimately, we are all related to every other human who ever lived.
But then, the Bible already told us that.  
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« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2004, 10:43:11 AM »

Poor Ivan "the Terrible"...
My fledgling study of Russian suggests the he was really called Ivan the "Awesome", despite some foibles.
And now this...

Demetri
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« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2004, 11:33:35 AM »

re: Ivan "the Terrible"

In archaic use, "terrible" was not necessarily a negative moral judgement.  Unfortunately, something has been "lost in translation", so to speak.

The same thing has happened in recent times with words like "cult" or "gross"; they have gained perjorative meanings which up until recently they did not have (to the point that if you use either term in it's strict sense, you'll more than likely be misunderstood by 9 out of 10 people.)

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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2004, 05:04:21 PM »

Ivan the Terrible = Ivan Grosniy
However, Grosniy does not = Terrible
Terrible = Ujzastniy
Grozniy = (according to my Russian English dictionary) threatening, menacing, formidable.  
My dad has been called grozniy.  I love how things aren't translated well.  
Ivan IV was very good at unifying the principalities (sp?) of Russia, sure.  There was a long history of rivalry, especially between Moscow & Novgorod.  Ivan took care of that.  He also kicked the Tartars out of Kazan, which was nice.  He also killed a whole lotta people.  He was good for Russia on a whole, he was bad for the Russian boyars.
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« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2004, 06:01:57 PM »

Much more importantly, Kerry should be a brewer.  Wasn't his grandfather a brewer from Horni Benesov in Moravia?

Ahhhh, the best malt and the best lagers.  

I'm still not voting for him, but I think I'll go and have a beer.
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« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2004, 06:03:34 PM »

Isn't there a city in Russia called "Grozny"?  Is that related to grozniy=threatening/menacing etc?
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« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2004, 06:29:20 PM »

  I watched a program on the History Channel (even though an often times biased and misguided network) entited
"Russia: Land of the Czars", and of course, Ivan was featured.

  It was said that he attained the title "Terrible" after the sack of the Mohammedan stronghold of Kazan, perhaps one of his most brilliant victories for Ivan, as well as the Orthodox Church.
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« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2004, 10:14:50 AM »

That just proved that the History Channel didn't consult a Russian English dictionary.  
Grozny is in Chechnya, it was originally a Russian fort, and it was indeed named Grozny to bring menace to the local populace.  
Ivan was educated, and said to have been penpals with his contemperary, Queen Elizabeth 1 of England.  He was also married I believe 7 times, and legend has it that he died while playing a game of chess for his 8th.
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« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2004, 06:30:50 AM »

But I think whatever Groziny means (and in Serbian "grozni" means horrible, disgusting, btw), Ivan was pretty terrible toward his subjects. He was obsessed with the thought that he would be murdered and himself executed many people. I also think he was brutal toward commoners as well as boyars. At least that's what I remember reading.

By the way, quite a few American presidents seem to have had royal blood. Washington himself was descended from English royalty, Buchanan from Scottish royalty and Lincoln, despite his humble background, had from what I read descent again from English royalty. In the latter case, however, I would add that there are people who say Thomas Lincoln wasn't Abraham's biological father (that is, that he was sterile after a case of mumps and that Abraham's biological father was someone who had raped his mother or something like that), so if that's true, maybe the line of descent isn't biological in his case.
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« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2004, 11:58:55 AM »

Ivan sent horribly cruel bands of men known as oprichniki to terrorize anyone he though opposed him. They were especially used against the boyars, who he accused of poisoning his mother (when he was a child) and his wife. He was terribly paranoid (seems like Russian dictators have universally-similar issues).
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« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2004, 03:12:42 PM »

Quote
He was terribly paranoid (seems like Russian dictators have universally-similar issues)

Tests run on his exhumed body indicated some truth to stories that Ivan had been ingesting mercury over a period of time, apparently believing it to be a medicine.  It's surmised that this led to his mental illness.
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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2004, 12:00:41 PM »

Much more importantly, Kerry should be a brewer.  Wasn't his grandfather a brewer from Horni Benesov in Moravia?

Ahhhh, the best malt and the best lagers.  

I'm still not voting for him, but I think I'll go and have a beer.

Kerry's grandfather was a Jew from Glogowiec,Poland[near czechlandia]not Horni Benesov. When here he changed his lastname to Kerry and became Catholic.
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« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2004, 12:14:40 PM »

That just proved that the History Channel didn't consult a Russian English dictionary.  
Grozny is in Chechnya, it was originally a Russian fort, and it was indeed named Grozny to bring menace to the local populace.  

Sorry for tardy response...Yes, Grozny was established as a fortress - Grozny means "Fortress".

Maybe we could use a "Trivia" board?

Demetri
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« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2004, 12:39:18 PM »

Quote
Grozny means "Fortress".


Does it in idiomatic Russian? It literally means 'terrifying' or 'awesome', as others have noted here, which is why Ivan the Terrible is in the original Russian -ÿ-¦-¦-+ -ô-Ç-+-+-+-ï-¦.

It seems that in Russian it mainly has the positive meaning, 'awesome', while in other Slavic languages it has only the negative meaning, 'horrible' - I've heard that about Ukrainian and now have read it here about Serbian.
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« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2004, 01:19:08 PM »


Does it in idiomatic Russian? It literally means 'terrifying' or 'awesome', as others have noted here, which is why Ivan the Terrible is in the original Russian -ÿ-¦-¦-+ -ô-Ç-+-+-+-ï-¦.

It seems that in Russian it mainly has the positive meaning, 'awesome', while in other Slavic languages it has only the negative meaning, 'horrible' - I've heard that about Ukrainian and now have read it here about Serbian.
Hey, that works for me, Serge. I perhaps should have cited the book I read "fortress" in but it's one of three I've read this season on the Caucasus region (been in a reading rut, so to speak). Anyway, Greek's more my forte.

+öHMH+ñ+í+Ö+ƒ+ú
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« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2004, 01:41:57 PM »

Fortress in Russia is "Krepost" which also means strength.
Grozny was named Grozny because "grozit" means to threaten or intimidate.
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« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2004, 02:04:43 PM »

Isn't nearly everyone descended from royalty?
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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2004, 03:18:02 PM »

Of course...!!!  (have evil plans of hostile world takeover... as am decendent of royalty... somewhere along the line...).
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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2004, 03:31:06 PM »



Does it in idiomatic Russian? It literally means 'terrifying' or 'awesome', as others have noted here, which is why Ivan the Terrible is in the original Russian -ÿ-¦-¦-+ -ô-Ç-+-+-+-ï-¦.

It seems that in Russian it mainly has the positive meaning, 'awesome', while in other Slavic languages it has only the negative meaning, 'horrible' - I've heard that about Ukrainian and now have read it here about Serbian.

Also in Polish. I had to say this because we Westside Slavs are underepresented. Westside! You have South Slavs[MAcedonians and Serbians] and East Slavs[Ukrianians].
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