Author Topic: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque  (Read 4632 times)

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Offline DavidI

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Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« on: November 05, 2011, 12:34:00 AM »
http://en.trend.az/regions/met/turkey/1951696.html

Quote
Hagia Sophia in Istanbul, which was earlier a Patriarchal Orthodox Cathedral and later a mosque, and now a museum, may once again become an active mosque, the Sabah newspaper reports.

Repairs are underway. A mimbar - a platform for the imam -- is planned to be built in the museum.

Earlier, Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc said during a visit to the museum that fundamental changes should be made in Hagia Sophia.

If this is true I am deeply saddened. I haven't seen any other reports about this, and I'm not sure if this news source is even reputable. Does anyone have any other information about this?

*edited to insert article quote - well not really quote, the entire article since it's short enough.*
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 12:37:16 AM by DavidI »
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Offline MyMapleStory

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2011, 12:35:40 AM »
Oh dear. I pray this never happens.

Offline biro

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2011, 12:40:28 AM »
Yes, changes should be made. They should put up a cross, an altar, an iconostasis, a bishop's chair...

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2011, 01:29:27 AM »
Silly steppe barbarians; Hagia Sophia is for Christians.
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Offline Cognomen

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2011, 01:33:03 AM »
Silly steppe barbarians; Hagia Sophia is for Christians.

Hey, that's yurt dwelling, yogurt eating steppe barbarians to you.
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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2011, 02:11:31 AM »
ummm so would they paint over the iconography again???

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2011, 08:10:06 AM »
ummm so would they paint over the iconography again???
that would be interesting, as they have spent a great deal restoring them.

Is it a UNESCO monument? Should be. The reason I ask is that is the only thing I can think of that would prevent them from selling the mosaics off piece meal and make a killing (figurative, for once).
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Offline Gorazd

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2011, 09:13:04 AM »
I heard the Hagia Sophia of Nicaea, where the Second Council of Nicaea took place, recently became a mosque... if that is true, I wouldn't be surprised if they do the same in Constantinople (Istanbul).


Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2011, 09:25:57 AM »
Silly steppe barbarians; Hagia Sophia is for Christians.

Hey, that's yurt dwelling, yogurt eating steppe barbarians to you.

Ah yes, racism is the fitting response of Christians. 

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2011, 09:30:00 AM »
Source this better perhaps? This appears to be from an Azerbaijani web site? It may just be the musings of Islamists pining for such an act. On the other hand, the current Eurozone crisis may play into the hands of the Islamist elements in Turkey. We shall see.

Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2011, 09:37:54 AM »
Source this better perhaps? This appears to be from an Azerbaijani web site? It may just be the musings of Islamists pining for such an act. On the other hand, the current Eurozone crisis may play into the hands of the Islamist elements in Turkey. We shall see.

Exactly.  Just imagine if all of the wet dreams of this website were taken to have even the slightest basis in reality and accidently linked to news website!  Monarchy Returns!!! Or people might think that actual Orthodox people care about topics such as whether a menstruating lesbian can enter church wearing pants. 

Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2011, 09:52:10 AM »
Source this better perhaps? This appears to be from an Azerbaijani web site? It may just be the musings of Islamists pining for such an act. On the other hand, the current Eurozone crisis may play into the hands of the Islamist elements in Turkey. We shall see.

Exactly.  Just imagine if all of the wet dreams of this website were taken to have even the slightest basis in reality and accidently linked to news website!  Monarchy Returns!!! Or people might think that actual Orthodox people care about topics such as whether a menstruating lesbian can enter church wearing pants. 

I agree with both of you guys.

Hagia Sophia is a museum and will stay a museum.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2011, 10:19:54 AM »
Just a thought on my part. The internet is wonderful and informative. However much one 'dislikes' the so-called 'main stream media' we have to remember that all sources are NOT equal. Any fool can create a website and 'publish' material which is simply not credible. At least real journalists have some degree of training and most real news organizations have double-source confirmation rules in order to ensure a bit of credibility. Whether your ideological taste runs to MSNBC or FoxNews, for example, in reality neither organization is likely to totally blur the lines between news and opinion. Before we get all lathered up about this or that, we need to discern the source. 

If that line is blurred by the proliferation of un-sourced information, than no one will believe anyone else and we will be further susceptible to being 'riled' by rumor, fear-mongering and suspicion. Just keep an open and inquiring mind.

Offline Byron

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2011, 11:39:16 PM »
Silly steppe barbarians; Hagia Sophia is for Christians.

Hey, that's yurt dwelling, yogurt eating steppe barbarians to you.

Ah yes, racism is the fitting response of Christians. 

Nothing wrong with what they said. Realistically the Turks have done too many evil things (and continue to) to deserve any dignified Christian response of the like you prefer.   


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"Country, Loyalty, Family and Religion".

Nationalism, Monarchy, Family and Orthodoxy.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2011, 11:54:21 PM »
I heard the Hagia Sophia of Nicaea, where the Second Council of Nicaea took place, recently became a mosque... if that is true, I wouldn't be surprised if they do the same in Constantinople (Istanbul).


It had been a mosque, but nothing but a heap of ruins in '89, when I was there.  Since then, it has been rebuilt.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2011, 11:55:59 PM »
Source this better perhaps? This appears to be from an Azerbaijani web site? It may just be the musings of Islamists pining for such an act. On the other hand, the current Eurozone crisis may play into the hands of the Islamist elements in Turkey. We shall see.

Exactly.  Just imagine if all of the wet dreams of this website were taken to have even the slightest basis in reality
like a number of issues I would list if this was in politics.
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2011, 04:47:25 AM »
Silly steppe barbarians; Hagia Sophia is for Christians.

Hey, that's yurt dwelling, yogurt eating steppe barbarians to you.

Ah yes, racism is the fitting response of Christians. 

Nothing wrong with what they said. Realistically the Turks have done too many evil things (and continue to) to deserve any dignified Christian response of the like you prefer.   

So what is Christianity?  It is just a gang of sorts of nations that have historical relationships with each other or is it something related to say the ethical code of the New Testament? 

Offline IoanC

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2011, 05:30:12 AM »
Elder Paisios said that Turkey will be re-occupied by the Greeks, and the Liturgy will take place again in Hagia Sophia after a great war between " the Russians and the Europeans", as he put it.  This will take place near the end of the age. I believe he didn't mean that the whole of Turkey will be re-occupied, but certain parts (perhaps having to do with Byzantium getting revenge?)
« Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 05:52:27 AM by IoanC »

Offline Byron

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2011, 08:09:39 AM »
Silly steppe barbarians; Hagia Sophia is for Christians.

Hey, that's yurt dwelling, yogurt eating steppe barbarians to you.

Ah yes, racism is the fitting response of Christians.  

Nothing wrong with what they said. Realistically the Turks have done too many evil things (and continue to) to deserve any dignified Christian response of the like you prefer.  

So what is Christianity?  It is just a gang of sorts of nations that have historical relationships with each other or is it something related to say the ethical code of the New Testament?  

Ha, ha nice try....

They are still trying to eradicate the Ecumenical Patriarchate and all traces of Orthodoxy and you go on about "historical relations" and "ethical codes". That will surely stop them in their tracks.  

Go shake their hand and tell them how much you love them.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 08:10:41 AM by Byron »
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2011, 03:41:42 PM »
Silly steppe barbarians; Hagia Sophia is for Christians.

Hey, that's yurt dwelling, yogurt eating steppe barbarians to you.

Ah yes, racism is the fitting response of Christians.  

Nothing wrong with what they said. Realistically the Turks have done too many evil things (and continue to) to deserve any dignified Christian response of the like you prefer.  

So what is Christianity?  It is just a gang of sorts of nations that have historical relationships with each other or is it something related to say the ethical code of the New Testament?  

Ha, ha nice try....

They are still trying to eradicate the Ecumenical Patriarchate and all traces of Orthodoxy and you go on about "historical relations" and "ethical codes". That will surely stop them in their tracks.  

Go shake their hand and tell them how much you love them.

If that is what is required of me to be a Christian, then so be it. 

Offline Antonis

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2011, 10:10:58 PM »
While I disagree with Nektarios' intense dislike of the longings of Orthodox romantics such as I(:D), I also disagree with you Byron, we must be cordial as is what is required of us as Christians. Responding to insult with insult is not what Christ taught.

That being said, a joke is a joke, and I see no harm in what ialmisry said. I thought it was funny. I would be just as ready to laugh at Greeks, and I am one, at least partially.  :laugh:
« Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 10:11:29 PM by Antonis »
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2011, 11:05:53 PM »
Silly steppe barbarians; Hagia Sophia is for Christians.

Hey, that's yurt dwelling, yogurt eating steppe barbarians to you.

Ah yes, racism is the fitting response of Christians.  

Nothing wrong with what they said. Realistically the Turks have done too many evil things (and continue to) to deserve any dignified Christian response of the like you prefer.  

So what is Christianity?  It is just a gang of sorts of nations that have historical relationships with each other or is it something related to say the ethical code of the New Testament?  

Ha, ha nice try....

They are still trying to eradicate the Ecumenical Patriarchate and all traces of Orthodoxy and you go on about "historical relations" and "ethical codes". That will surely stop them in their tracks.  

Go shake their hand and tell them how much you love them.

So, for you, Christianity is basically an ideological tool for maintaining real estate.

Offline Irish Melkite

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2011, 01:42:24 AM »
Note that this is not the Great Cathedral of Constantinople (although multiple sources indicate, seemingly hopefully, that is is that). Rather, it is the Church of 'Agia Sophia in Nicea - site of the Second Council of Nicea (7th Ecumenical Council). As Isa noted, it has been rebuilt.

The Great Cathedral is somewhat protected by its World Heritage Landmark status which would cause Turkey any number of problems with the world community were it to undertake such action with respect to it. So, the news - though very distressing - is not quite what it appeared to be.

Many years,

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Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2011, 05:16:05 AM »
Elder Paisios said that Turkey will be re-occupied by the Greeks, and the Liturgy will take place again in Hagia Sophia after a great war between " the Russians and the Europeans", as he put it.  This will take place near the end of the age. I believe he didn't mean that the whole of Turkey will be re-occupied, but certain parts (perhaps having to do with Byzantium getting revenge?)

There are more Turks in Constantinople than there are Greeks in the world. What are they going to do there? Move every single Greek into one city so they can be sure to be wiped off the face of the earth next time they're attacked? Or have a city of 13million people occupied by just a few thousand Greeks? They could, of course, let the Turks stay, and see how long they'd put up with being under minority Greek rule?

Offline Balthasar

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2011, 10:29:29 AM »
For once I fully agree with Martin Luther, "The Turks, however, were God's scourge on European unbelief, "God's rod and the devil's servant" (170). Before fighting the Turks, repentance was a prerequisite (184). In 1532, he said that were he Samson, he would give the Turks "something to think about… Every day," Luther said, "I would kill a thousands Turks; in a year this would amount to 350,000 Turks" (Vol 54; 40).

The Greeks should first repent! Their lavish, decadent secular life is getting primitive and boaring. They should look for the Orthodox world, instead of being the laughing stock of the European Union.

Two years ago I met a Greek guy in Oslo. You know what he asked me? "What is a black guy doing in Europe? LOL! Well, I would have gladly responded to him, "what is a greek doing in Europe?", if I saw him today.

Please don't get me wrong, I like Greeks for many reasons, but many Greeks still reflect the very same backwardness that they have taken from the Turks. The same with Bulgarians and other Balkan folks. Sad that the turkish poison is still there.


Elder Paisios said that Turkey will be re-occupied by the Greeks, and the Liturgy will take place again in Hagia Sophia after a great war between " the Russians and the Europeans", as he put it.  This will take place near the end of the age. I believe he didn't mean that the whole of Turkey will be re-occupied, but certain parts (perhaps having to do with Byzantium getting revenge?)

There are more Turks in Constantinople than there are Greeks in the world. What are they going to do there? Move every single Greek into one city so they can be sure to be wiped off the face of the earth next time they're attacked? Or have a city of 13million people occupied by just a few thousand Greeks? They could, of course, let the Turks stay, and see how long they'd put up with being under minority Greek rule?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 10:29:51 AM by Balthasar »

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2011, 11:54:26 AM »
I find it silly because if this were the other way around a slight mentioning of a former uber-popular Mosque becoming a Christian Church would have the usual suspects in a horrible uproar about it. We'd never hear the end of it.

I say go ahead, get all the use of it that the muslims can because the time will come when that gutter religion will be found out. Either in this world or the next.

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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2011, 06:04:28 PM »
which is why its better to avoid it altogether through peace, love, mutual fellowship, and understanding.

This is an Orthodox forum.  Please don't cite Christian ethics here.   :police:

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2011, 09:18:31 PM »
The Greeks should first repent!

As a monk told me recently in Cyprus "the Turks are occupying our country because of our sinfulness. When we return our lives to Christ, the Turks will return our land to us. Repentance comes before politics."

Offline Cognomen

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2011, 12:42:33 AM »
This is an Orthodox forum.  Please don't cite Christian ethics here.   :police:

Yeah, that would waste valuable words that could be spent on lame "racism is bad" lectures in response to comments you fail to grasp the context of (shown below).  It's pretty clear that Nicholas and I weren't serious, but feel free jump right in with your condemnatory crusade. 

Warning: Any attempt to state the equivalent of "racism is no joking matter" will be met by a ferocious eye-rolling emoticon.

Silly steppe barbarians; Hagia Sophia is for Christians.
Hey, that's yurt dwelling, yogurt eating steppe barbarians to you.

Ah yes, racism is the fitting response of Christians.
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Offline Balthasar

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2011, 10:14:32 AM »


Emperor Constantine founded a new capital and a new dynasty for the Roman Empire.
This was the 2nd Rome. When Constantinople fell to the Muslims, Moscow became known as the 3rd Rome.

"80 000 Muslims pray on Moscow street"

http://www.news24.com/World/News/80-000-Muslims-pray-on-Moscow-street-20111106

How is this possible?

Offline Balthasar

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2011, 10:36:53 AM »
The Greeks should first repent!

As a monk told me recently in Cyprus "the Turks are occupying our country because of our sinfulness. When we return our lives to Christ, the Turks will return our land to us. Repentance comes before politics."

I also believe that Cyprus will play a pivotal role in boling the demonic blood of the Turks in the coming days and years.

I read this intersting prohecy by  by Greek Monk Elder Joseph

- The Third World War will start with the conflict between Turkey and Greece.

- Jewish masons who are rulers over USA and European Union will force Turkish people into the war against Greece.

- In spite of Greek tremendous courage and resistance, Turkish attack will be devastating. Lots of Greeks and lots of their Russian and Serbian brothers in Christ who will volunteer to help Greeks will be dead.

- Turkey will charge deep inside Greece and will concur the most of the Greek territory.

- At the beginning, NATO and USA will not interfere into this conflict directly, but will give silent support for everything Turks do instead.

- The time will come that the world will think Greek people will vanish.

- A moment before it will be almost certain to happen, mighty Russia opens its cards in protection of Greek people and Orthodox Christianity. This takes everyone by surprise. Russian nukes are launched to Turkey.

- Darkness is covering Balkan peninsula and Near East. The World we know cease to exist again...




Offline Cognomen

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2011, 05:10:30 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
 

Warning: Any attempt to state the equivalent of "racism is no joking matter" will be met by a ferocious eye-rolling emoticon.


I expected better from you, Racism is always no joking matter, and defending crypto-racism is not a joke, it is just stupid and divisive, especially over such sensitive issues as the Greeks versus the Turks.

Don't say you weren't warned:  ::)

The point is that the accusation of racism thoroughly missed the point. 
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Offline BoredMeeting

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2011, 10:30:07 AM »
Silly steppe barbarians; Hagia Sophia is for Christians.

Hey, that's yurt dwelling, yogurt eating steppe barbarians to you.

Ah yes, racism is the fitting response of Christians. 
"Race" wasn't mentioned. Why go Pavlovian?

Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2011, 01:05:54 PM »
Silly steppe barbarians; Hagia Sophia is for Christians.

Hey, that's yurt dwelling, yogurt eating steppe barbarians to you.

Ah yes, racism is the fitting response of Christians. 

Nothing wrong with what they said. Realistically the Turks have done too many evil things (and continue to) to deserve any dignified Christian response of the like you prefer.   




I'm sorry, can you show me where in scripture that Turks are not make in the image and likeness of God? It was my understanding that all mankind was, and that Christ commanded us to love one another. Regardless of ethnic or religious background.
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Offline serb1389

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2011, 01:30:58 PM »
All discussion relative to Serbs & Genocide that came out of this thread, can be found here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,40941.0.html 

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,40941.0.html 


« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 01:32:19 PM by serb1389 »
I got nothing.
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Offline Gorazd

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2011, 01:35:44 PM »
Let's stop the nonesense talk, and start missionary activity in Turkey instead. It is actually legal there, so why are only Evangelical protestants doing that?

Offline Basil 320

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Re: Hagia Sophia in Istanbul may Become Mosque
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2011, 02:51:53 PM »
I too question the plans of the Turks as stated in this article.  While they continue to press for assession into the EU, I don't think the Turkish government would go so far as to convert the Cathedral of the Holy Wisdom to a Mosque.
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