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Author Topic: Question for Ethiopian Orthodox brethren  (Read 1015 times) Average Rating: 0
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mikeyseky
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« on: November 04, 2011, 10:59:44 AM »

i am a Coptic orthodox christian .. and i know that Ethiopians consider the book of Enoch as a canonical book.

so i am asking about the "nephilim" and the account of angels marrying human females mentioned in this book and referred to in the book of genesis and Epistle of Judah ... do you believe that it is a true account ... ? angels and human females can marry ?

please .. i want to knowyour opinion ...
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Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2011, 11:07:46 AM »

You may find this helpful.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,18437.msg273448.html#msg273448



Selam
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 11:09:19 AM by Gebre Menfes Kidus » Logged

"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+
mikeyseky
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2011, 11:30:01 AM »

thanks but need to know other opinions
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Hiwot
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2011, 01:08:59 PM »

i am a Coptic orthodox christian .. and i know that Ethiopians consider the book of Enoch as a canonical book.

so i am asking about the "nephilim" and the account of angels marrying human females mentioned in this book and referred to in the book of genesis and Epistle of Judah ... do you believe that it is a true account ... ? angels and human females can marry ?

please .. i want to knowyour opinion ...

Selam  dear mikey Smiley

Most of it has been already answered in that link Gebre gave you, but I will also give a small explanation a try. hope it helps. angel
Warning: the language I will use to describe sin will be the strongest ones because Enoch is all about that.

If memory serves the book of Enoch the one we use contains a bit more detail than the one i have seen in English, I do not know if all translations are the same or perhaps it was the way it was arranged I really do not know I have to find that book and compare again.

  I know there is a lot of confusion on what Enoch is saying and what Genisis 6 is saying for that matter.

one thing I want to answer outright is that NO angels can not procreate! using the ancient way of explaining their bodies, they are made out of the two elements fire and air. they can appear to take on the image of a man but they do not become one it is only an illusion when they do it.So by their very nature they can not become corporeal and marry or procreate with our women. for one thing the angels are neither female, nor male, although we address them traditionally as male. the pleasure of flesh and blood is not theirs to experience.

OK so if we know that those that married with the children of men  are not angels , then why are they called children of God, and sometimes even angels?

well Enoch writes in a deeply spiritual language as it is the book of secretes, but it also speaks clearly as to who those children of God are, they are Children of Seth living in the Holy Mountain in seclusion from the children of Cain who were living in sin. this one clan, lived a pure life striving to stay obedient to God, not to forget why they were created and their creator, because children of Cain had already fallen into the oblivion of forgetfulness of sin and have started to accept their exile and count this world as their home now. because of their life of purity Children of Seth were called angels among men. as we call St.Abba Anthony angel of the Desert, how today we call the monastic life, an angelic life, because of its total focus on God. these Children of Seth were in trying to live a holy life and God was pleased in them. this did not go unnoticed by our ancient enemy. so he started to plot. he knew children of Cain were under his control, therefore the promise of Adam's salvation must lie in the remaining children of Adam who did not defile themselves as children of Cain have done, armed with this suspicions and knowledge the Devil and his angels started one of their great plots to exterminate the hope of mankind by exterminating man by the natural result of his sin.

plot #1: get those children of God to be tempted by the life of the Children of men:
how to do it>> get the party on! flutes and lyres and dancing plenty of dancing and singing, the soul that is naturally drown to beauty will find it hard to resist to stop and admire that.While they do stop and admire the music, they will see the beautiful women and their ways.
Result>> Children of God stop their daily office of prayer and contemplation, and wanted to see what on earth was going on down under the mountain. sure enough the party was on! and close-by were the messengers of darkness taunting them, seducing them how beautiful it must be to live in such abundance. how much knowledge they have( for great mysteries of this world was revealed to them) that could be applied to perfect what these children of Cain only began to do. but they also know the consequence of such an abomination, such blatant rejection of God, then again these are living in it, why not they also. 200 leaders of the Clan swore to each other to go together, that in this grave sin they shall be as one.these were not regular men, these were holy men, powerful men, men who walked with God, so to get them to leave the Holy Mountain,  in their evil equally powerful demons were at work each with his own individual task and speciality. later on for this reason the punishment of these demons is also great for they are the ones who have played a great part for the fall of the mighty children of Seth. so God exacts their blood from these demons; as well as letting the children of Seth dewell in the resulting horror of their utter rejection of God.Success! for the our ancient enemy and his troops , there is Exodus from the Holy Mountain into the world of men of flesh.
initial Repercussions: 1,the Lord said no longer will my spirit dwell on men for they are flesh!2, their age will be 120 years. 3,and the plain of men became strictly on this world and the plain of the heavenly fiery beings on the heavens.

Plot#2 defile the holy ones with all sorts of unholy unions.in the sin of the flesh and in the sin of the soul. teach and instruct them all manners of idolatry and abominations.so they may be judged as high as they were they shall descend into the abyss. according to their knowledge, according to what was granted to them. for it would have been better had they not known the Living God

Result: where there is no blessing,with their blasphemy and abominations bring the curse upon them and their offsprings. a curse that will mutate their very genetics, children with uncontrollable growth born, with uncontrollable urges and appetites. they possessed no moral or ethical control, they were like rabid animals with the curse of death was within them and they moved in packs to destroy everything they touched when they could not find others they turned on their parents and eachother. earth became bathed in filth and blood of innocents, evil unrestrained rampaged all over the world.it got to the point that God the eternal judge saw how much evil was having the field day possessing the humans that have fully embraced it,no-longer could he tolerate their injustice and abominations so he decided to end all their lives, take away the time that he had given men for repentance. it seemed that all the hope of Adam is extinguished, in a cesspool  of evil humanity sunk in. the devil started to gloat, that this was too easy.

oh but all is not lost, there among the perfect who walked with God was a man descendant of Seth, a man called Noah. from here you know the story. but think about how the devil worked hard to stop the birth of her who will give birth to Immanuel. to Stop the Incarnation, that is the salvation of mankind. I will leave you with Isaiah 1:9 'Except the Lord of hosts had left us seed, we had been as Sodom, and we should have been like to Gomorrah." total annihilation!
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To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
Gebre Menfes Kidus
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"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


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« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2011, 03:59:15 PM »

i am a Coptic orthodox christian .. and i know that Ethiopians consider the book of Enoch as a canonical book.

so i am asking about the "nephilim" and the account of angels marrying human females mentioned in this book and referred to in the book of genesis and Epistle of Judah ... do you believe that it is a true account ... ? angels and human females can marry ?

please .. i want to knowyour opinion ...

Selam  dear mikey Smiley

Most of it has been already answered in that link Gebre gave you, but I will also give a small explanation a try. hope it helps. angel
Warning: the language I will use to describe sin will be the strongest ones because Enoch is all about that.

If memory serves the book of Enoch the one we use contains a bit more detail than the one i have seen in English, I do not know if all translations are the same or perhaps it was the way it was arranged I really do not know I have to find that book and compare again.

  I know there is a lot of confusion on what Enoch is saying and what Genisis 6 is saying for that matter.

one thing I want to answer outright is that NO angels can not procreate! using the ancient way of explaining their bodies, they are made out of the two elements fire and air. they can appear to take on the image of a man but they do not become one it is only an illusion when they do it.So by their very nature they can not become corporeal and marry or procreate with our women. for one thing the angels are neither female, nor male, although we address them traditionally as male. the pleasure of flesh and blood is not theirs to experience.

OK so if we know that those that married with the children of men  are not angels , then why are they called children of God, and sometimes even angels?

well Enoch writes in a deeply spiritual language as it is the book of secretes, but it also speaks clearly as to who those children of God are, they are Children of Seth living in the Holy Mountain in seclusion from the children of Cain who were living in sin. this one clan, lived a pure life striving to stay obedient to God, not to forget why they were created and their creator, because children of Cain had already fallen into the oblivion of forgetfulness of sin and have started to accept their exile and count this world as their home now. because of their life of purity Children of Seth were called angels among men. as we call St.Abba Anthony angel of the Desert, how today we call the monastic life, an angelic life, because of its total focus on God. these Children of Seth were in trying to live a holy life and God was pleased in them. this did not go unnoticed by our ancient enemy. so he started to plot. he knew children of Cain were under his control, therefore the promise of Adam's salvation must lie in the remaining children of Adam who did not defile themselves as children of Cain have done, armed with this suspicions and knowledge the Devil and his angels started one of their great plots to exterminate the hope of mankind by exterminating man by the natural result of his sin.

plot #1: get those children of God to be tempted by the life of the Children of men:
how to do it>> get the party on! flutes and lyres and dancing plenty of dancing and singing, the soul that is naturally drown to beauty will find it hard to resist to stop and admire that.While they do stop and admire the music, they will see the beautiful women and their ways.
Result>> Children of God stop their daily office of prayer and contemplation, and wanted to see what on earth was going on down under the mountain. sure enough the party was on! and close-by were the messengers of darkness taunting them, seducing them how beautiful it must be to live in such abundance. how much knowledge they have( for great mysteries of this world was revealed to them) that could be applied to perfect what these children of Cain only began to do. but they also know the consequence of such an abomination, such blatant rejection of God, then again these are living in it, why not they also. 200 leaders of the Clan swore to each other to go together, that in this grave sin they shall be as one.these were not regular men, these were holy men, powerful men, men who walked with God, so to get them to leave the Holy Mountain,  in their evil equally powerful demons were at work each with his own individual task and speciality. later on for this reason the punishment of these demons is also great for they are the ones who have played a great part for the fall of the mighty children of Seth. so God exacts their blood from these demons; as well as letting the children of Seth dewell in the resulting horror of their utter rejection of God.Success! for the our ancient enemy and his troops , there is Exodus from the Holy Mountain into the world of men of flesh.
initial Repercussions: 1,the Lord said no longer will my spirit dwell on men for they are flesh!2, their age will be 120 years. 3,and the plain of men became strictly on this world and the plain of the heavenly fiery beings on the heavens.

Plot#2 defile the holy ones with all sorts of unholy unions.in the sin of the flesh and in the sin of the soul. teach and instruct them all manners of idolatry and abominations.so they may be judged as high as they were they shall descend into the abyss. according to their knowledge, according to what was granted to them. for it would have been better had they not known the Living God

Result: where there is no blessing,with their blasphemy and abominations bring the curse upon them and their offsprings. a curse that will mutate their very genetics, children with uncontrollable growth born, with uncontrollable urges and appetites. they possessed no moral or ethical control, they were like rabid animals with the curse of death was within them and they moved in packs to destroy everything they touched when they could not find others they turned on their parents and eachother. earth became bathed in filth and blood of innocents, evil unrestrained rampaged all over the world.it got to the point that God the eternal judge saw how much evil was having the field day possessing the humans that have fully embraced it,no-longer could he tolerate their injustice and abominations so he decided to end all their lives, take away the time that he had given men for repentance. it seemed that all the hope of Adam is extinguished, in a cesspool  of evil humanity sunk in. the devil started to gloat, that this was too easy.

oh but all is not lost, there among the perfect who walked with God was a man descendant of Seth, a man called Noah. from here you know the story. but think about how the devil worked hard to stop the birth of her who will give birth to Immanuel. to Stop the Incarnation, that is the salvation of mankind. I will leave you with Isaiah 1:9 'Except the Lord of hosts had left us seed, we had been as Sodom, and we should have been like to Gomorrah." total annihilation!


Wonderful and insightful post Hiwot! Thank you dear sister.  Smiley


Selam
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"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+
mabsoota
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« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2011, 06:26:41 PM »

interesting, i didn't hear it explained like that before, although i was sure it was not about sex between people and demons/angels.
thanks.
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Hiwot
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Job 19:25-27


« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2011, 06:41:21 PM »

I am glad it helped , I also want to include in my examples of the sanctity of the children of Seth, that they were not all monks, but were descendants of Seth who were born in Holy matrimony, although some among them such as Melchizedek were celebates.for instance the Son of Jared, Enoch was the father of Methuselah, so the ascetic life they lived is within Holy Marriage. I think it says a lot about how much God values holy matrimony as well as celibacy that is done in the love and service of God. For they are all called Children of God.
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To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
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