"ἐν ἀνθρώποις εὐδοκία"
The word ἀνθρώποις is in the dative, meaning "to men" (i.e., humankind, for the P.C. folks ) the preposition "ἐν" can mean quite a lot, as most Greek preposition can mean quite a lot. We can understand it as "on, in, to, towards, etc." but "of" (as in "men of goodwill") isn't really in the right tenor of the word. It has this connotation of approaching, being within, etc. it's a state of relation, not a state of being, if that makes sense. We can't really use this word to talk about the quality of a noun, only it's relationship to something. This can't really mean that we're only talking about people who are of goodwill (i.e., "εὐδοκία" which could also be understood as "good tidings" or "blessings.")
As for the Latin...I don't have a clue. I've not studied Latin nearly as much as I have Greek. Nor do I know the history of the Gloria in Latin translation.
"et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis"
"and on Earth, peace to men of good will."
"Bonae voluntatis" is in the Genitive form. So literally "men whom have good will".
Can ἐν be understood as 'with', whereas you'd say "to men with good will" or "to men 'in the direction of' good will"? I'm not very well versed in Greek.
Interesting. I guess they're being true to the Latin, then. Meaning...the Latin is not a very good translation of the Greek, and should be fixed!
That's a different way to look at it. Indeed, ἐν can be translated sometimes as "with," meaning something like, "those who reside in" or "those who are within." However, this is to be taken in relation to something, and not being in possession of something. Perhaps, another way to say it is "those who are within a certain limit" or "those inside a greater whole." So, I suppose it would be more like the English "men within good will" or "men moving towards good will." In a sense, the good will possesses the men, the men do not possess the good will (i.e., they are not "men of good will" as if good will is an attribute ascribed to them).
In other words, ἐν is a preposition of location, not of attribution. You can't answer the question "who" with it, but rather the question "where." If that makes sense. To understand "with" in the sense of attribution, perhaps μετά with the dative would be a better preposition to convey that idea? Of course, there are probably others that are better at it. Greek has an abundance of prepositions which can be used a variety of ways, depending on the case, number and even inherent meanings of the individual noun in question. It's a very highly nuanced, and confusing, system. I have to admit to consulting my Greek dictionaries to answer you!
Thanks for the detailed response.
I ask because I take "peace to men of good will" to be similar to the beatitude "blessed are the peacemakers". Whereas, just as the last ICEL translation was not literal (and peace to his people on Earth), it still conveyed a similar thought. So if the Greek could be understood as with a similar thought, though not necessarily literal, then perhaps it wasn't necessarily a wrong translation, just not a literal one.
I would say "peace to his people on Earth" while not literal, is in a similar vein to "peace and goodwill towards men." It bugs me as a Greek nerd a bit because they just totally eliminated "goodwill" from the phrase altogether. Honestly, it sounds like a compromise translation, like one camp wanted "peace and goodwill towards men" and another wanted "peace to men of goodwill" so they just dropped the goodwill altogether! Still, though it is quite different, and I don't like it at all, it's still closer than the "men of goodwill" bit, at least insomuch as it ignores the issue, whereas the new translation is simply wrong. Perhaps we could say one is wrong by omission, the other by commission?
Interesting. I went ahead and pulled that Beatitude for us! It reads:
"Μακάριοι οἱ εἰρηνοποιοὶ, ὅτι αὐτοὶ υἱοὶ θεοῦ κληθήσονται"
Parallel: "Blessed the peacemakers, because they sons of God shall be called."
There's actually no preposition here at all. Whereas the new translation of the Gloria still uses a prepositional phrase "of" meaning, "have possession of", "those with the attribute of", etc. there's not even a verb in the phrase, "Μακάριοι οἱ εἰρηνοποιοὶ" much less any prepositional phrase. Simply an adjective, the definite article, and the noun. The "to be" is understood. IIRC, Latin does a similar thing.
So, while in English I think we could understand "peace to men of goodwill" and "blessed are the peacemakers" in a similar vein, both of them displaying attributes of the people, the two phrases when considered in the Greek are vastly different. Not to mention the nuanced meaning of the Gloria, and the very straightforward and simple meaning of the Beatitude. Of course, in the Gloria, both "peace" and "goodwill" are nouns, not adjectives. In the Beatitude, "Blessed" is adjectival, thus describing the peacemakers.
Don't get me wrong, I don't really have a theological problem with the new Mass translation, as the kid seems to have. I think his tantrum about how it means peace is only deserved by men of good will is quite contrived. But, the translation is sadly unrepresentative of the Greek. it seems honest to the Latin, though, if that's any consultation to the Roman Church. Of course, the Latin is unrepresentative of the Greek, from which it is translated, so...yeah. I love Rome, but they seem to have fumbled the ball on this one.