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Author Topic: Blessings on this 81st Anniversary of the Coronation of HIM Haile Selassie I  (Read 14733 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #90 on: November 09, 2011, 05:12:21 PM »

I know nothing about Ethiopia, HIM, Rastafarianism, or anything else being discussed here. Except for this, speaking of grammar naziïsm:

I dont agree with anyone using that title other than the One who truly deserves it. The Lord Jesus Christ.

"King of kings" is, I believe, a Hebraicism. To repeat the word twice is an intensifier.

In English we say "supreme court". A Hebraicized version might be "court of courts." "Commander-in-chief" might be "commander of commanders."

It is a language construct which can apply to Christ, or it can apply to general secular systems. Sort of like the term "Lord". It can refer to Christ, or it can refer to a member of the peerage. The term itself is not restricted to any particular use, and calling a person "Lord" does not threaten Christ's Lordship.

In any case, it is a legitimate title in a political system where there are lesser kings under the authority of a greater king. Distaste for the term simply means that in English we have come to use it in a specific way. Your mileage will vary in other languages and cultures.
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« Reply #91 on: November 09, 2011, 05:15:09 PM »

I know nothing about Ethiopia, HIM, Rastafarianism, or anything else being discussed here. Except for this, speaking of grammar naziïsm:

I dont agree with anyone using that title other than the One who truly deserves it. The Lord Jesus Christ.

"King of kings" is, I believe, a Hebraicism. To repeat the word twice is an intensifier.

In English we say "supreme court". A Hebraicized version might be "court of courts." "Commander-in-chief" might be "commander of commanders."

It is a language construct which can apply to Christ, or it can apply to general secular systems. Sort of like the term "Lord". It can refer to Christ, or it can refer to a member of the peerage. The term itself is not restricted to any particular use, and calling a person "Lord" does not threaten Christ's Lordship.

In any case, it is a legitimate title in a political system where there are lesser kings under the authority of a greater king. Distaste for the term simply means that in English we have come to use it in a specific way. Your mileage will vary in other languages and cultures.

Point bogdan!

It is a Hebraicism and frankly I would love a thread "collecting" such things. But as we have seen, there is more at work here than that.
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« Reply #92 on: November 09, 2011, 05:17:33 PM »

I know nothing about Ethiopia, HIM, Rastafarianism, or anything else being discussed here. Except for this, speaking of grammar naziïsm:

I dont agree with anyone using that title other than the One who truly deserves it. The Lord Jesus Christ.

"King of kings" is, I believe, a Hebraicism. To repeat the word twice is an intensifier.

In English we say "supreme court". A Hebraicized version might be "court of courts." "Commander-in-chief" might be "commander of commanders."

It is a language construct which can apply to Christ, or it can apply to general secular systems. Sort of like the term "Lord". It can refer to Christ, or it can refer to a member of the peerage. The term itself is not restricted to any particular use, and calling a person "Lord" does not threaten Christ's Lordship.

In any case, it is a legitimate title in a political system where there are lesser kings under the authority of a greater king. Distaste for the term simply means that in English we have come to use it in a specific way. Your mileage will vary in other languages and cultures.
If that was the onl;y title ascribed to Christ and this man I would not have a problem with it. The actual title was:

Quote
King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, Elect of God, Light of This World, King of Zion, King of Israel
Legitimize it any way you want. I dont think anyone should have those titles given to them except One. You dont agree, thats cool.
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« Reply #93 on: November 09, 2011, 05:19:48 PM »


Now I'm the one who is sad. Gebre, your brother has preached all kinds of nonsense (and LOUDLY, IN ALL CAPS WITH NO PARAGRAPH SPACES) there, in the name of defending the EOTC in Jamaica!  "Only Jamaicans" can understand (cross?) it, and it's "one black love" to all (somehow!). Where is the evangelization here, either to him from you (to correct his errors), or from him to us, if he is somehow Orthodox? I don't recognize anything like the Orthodoxy I am being taught in the Coptic Orthodox church in what he has written. We do not involve ourselves in politics, telling other nations that they are ungrateful or bad, nor has anyone ever told me that I cannot be Orthodox because I am not an ethnic Copt. To the contrary!

What IS this? Is this Orthodoxy, or black nationalism in Orthodox vestments?

What a load of garbage! I'm sorry...I can't stomach this for even a second. If that jumbled mess of nationalism and exclusionary thinking is Orthodoxy then I might as well go back to being Roman Catholic.  Undecided

Amma Syncletica has told us that just as it is impossible to be both at the same time a seed and a plant, it is impossible to be surrounded by the things of the world and the city and be holy. But I can see that some want a political and racial utopia on earth even still (and what's more see some sort of bizarre, prophetic work for their people and race in it). How sad. That's not the church, is it? Rather, what was it again that the psalmist told us? "Do not trust in princes"? Maybe that does not apply in the Rastadox mind to Haile Selassie, but that is more proof to me that the two don't mix.

I'm disgusted now. I must leave this thread rather than let the passions overtake me. Peace.

Do not expect those who are unfairly and slanderously attacked not to defend themselves. It does not discredit the brother simply because he writes in all caps. And who are any of you who have little or no knowledge of the Rastafari movement or of the ecclesiastical situation in Jamaica to discredit his comments? Again, some people need to humble themsleves and open their minds- or better yet, open their hearts.


Selam


Gebre, if I may, it's hard to give credit or discredit something when you have extreme difficulty in understanding it.  It is up to the person communicating to make themselves understood and writing in all caps and in an extremely unorthodox English grammar (to the point of illegibility) on a predominately English language site is not going to prove anything.  I know little about Rastafarianism but I want to learn and am having difficulty doing so when I feel as if I'm being talked AT (not even TO) as I do when I read Ras Zacka's post.

I think your concerns are fair.


Selam
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« Reply #94 on: November 09, 2011, 05:26:39 PM »

I know nothing about Ethiopia, HIM, Rastafarianism, or anything else being discussed here. Except for this, speaking of grammar naziïsm:

I dont agree with anyone using that title other than the One who truly deserves it. The Lord Jesus Christ.

"King of kings" is, I believe, a Hebraicism. To repeat the word twice is an intensifier.

In English we say "supreme court". A Hebraicized version might be "court of courts." "Commander-in-chief" might be "commander of commanders."

It is a language construct which can apply to Christ, or it can apply to general secular systems. Sort of like the term "Lord". It can refer to Christ, or it can refer to a member of the peerage. The term itself is not restricted to any particular use, and calling a person "Lord" does not threaten Christ's Lordship.

In any case, it is a legitimate title in a political system where there are lesser kings under the authority of a greater king. Distaste for the term simply means that in English we have come to use it in a specific way. Your mileage will vary in other languages and cultures.
If that was the onl;y title ascribed to Christ and this man I would not have a problem with it. The actual title was:

Quote
King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, Elect of God, Light of This World, King of Zion, King of Israel
Legitimize it any way you want. I dont think anyone should have those titles given to them except One. You dont agree, thats cool.

Actually the form that bogdan is pointing out is very helpful  for reading Scripture in English translation even in versions which attempt to avoid such Hebraicisms (you usually can still tell they were there, once you are keen to the them).

Who knows what would have come of all the complexity attributed to the use of man's being made in God's image and likeness if such repeated and parallel uses of words were known simply as a form of a emphasizing a single point. Much ink spilled. Perhaps Providentially for the good, but perhaps to more complexity than needed.

Again, this is getting VERY tangential and I am finished. Again, content for a proper and non-contentious thread.
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« Reply #95 on: November 09, 2011, 05:27:41 PM »

 
yes, you have correctly pointed out a common Rastafari misconception, but you also were aware that many Rastafari folks speak Amharic and know the corrections? Further, in the concept of Ras Tafari, this phrase has a dual meaning.  The literal meaning is "Head Feared-One" as you've already pointed out, so some folks are merely affirming that God is one to be Feared.  Folks like myself, who do not worship but do continue venerate the Emperor, use this term to acknowledge that it is through the Person of Ras Tafari, who is HIM Haile Selassie I, that God Almighty perpetuates His Divine Theocratic Order of Creation, that the modern, colonial, Babylonian world is a merely a facade, a dirty mirror like Paul mentioned, but the Truth of God is remaining in His Kingdom and through David His servant

Oh habte, this is completely grabbing straw definition you just gave which probably emanated after you have seen what I interpreted as his name, one you have already seen that Gebere's definition did not hold water. so you are trying to come up with a newly invented definition for the blasphemous term.  well if as you said those who understand the Amharic language have seen it, they would lough at the conclusion you just arrived at, but if they are orthodox they will be horrified by the so called misconception , misuse of language. unless ofc they are arrogant and continue to insist it does not matter, and it can be used either way, to which the orthodox church will say NO WAY to. there is no such dual meaning int he Rastafarian movement , the message is clear JAH RASTAFARI means rastafari IS JAH, this has been a time proven declaration of their faith. now you say it is to say that God is one to be feared, oh please by anyones linguistic deciphering ability this is clearly a distortion of language, what it is says is plain and clear. Jah -JEHOVA, Ras- Head  TAFARI - TERRIFYING  let us translate it then, JEHOVA is a terrifying Head! as silly as this is , still that is not what is being said by the Rastafarian's who originally coined the term as their Creed! and for you to say it is to say that the Almighty is the one that perpetuates ...... speech really another straw grabbing definition.  say what you like the fact remains JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI those rastafarians who say it will be asked to stop saying it if they intend to join the orthodox church, and those who still hang on to their idol then they too will be constantly 'reminded' that JAH ain't no RASTAFARI.

I have no issue with venerating the Emperor, however using that term to do so, whatever you say it means now, I am here to tell you it is not Orthodox! it is Rastafarian creed that snick in with the converts who still can not separate themselves from their former attachment. and dare to say JAH RASTAFARI!

As to the dreadlocks Ethiopians  I assure you its a fashion statement, none of them who know their history and have no fanciful ideas about the Emperor being a deity claim to be Rastafarian's in the manner you protray. it was not a dirty game to say words matter and just as we  the Orthodox do not say Paul is risen! we will never say JAH RASTAFARI.

as to Ethiopians leaving their country and needing an example to stay in their country. it just shows how little you know of the plight of Ethiopians or how you disregard it.  Ethiopians who love their mother land dearly , would not contemplate leave her and their beloved people had conditions not been a life and death situation. but I will not speak of this in here. continue to say oh Ethiopians who went to Babylon etc etc.  

Honestly speaking everyone can see what JAH RASTAFARI means, I can not go into another circular argument I already had with Gebere, I understand you share his views,  and my point to all that might see this is that The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church does reject such utter blasphemy.



Hiwot, dear sister, you are doing the same annoying thing that Evangelical fundamentalists do when they try to tell us Orthodox what we believe- i.e. "You Orthodox worship Mary, idolize icons, etc." Rather than defending their own belief system, they try to attack Orthodoxy out of ignorance and misinformation. This is exactly what you are doing here, presuming to lecture us about the Rastafarian movement when you obviously know nothing about it. Orthodoxy is not evangelical fundamentalism, condemning and judging others out of ignorance and fear. If that's the version of Christianity you want to practice, then the Tewahedo Faith is not for you. There are plenty of fundamentalist churches that will be glad to accommodate you and your judgmental attitude.


Selam
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« Reply #96 on: November 09, 2011, 05:29:19 PM »

yes, you have correctly pointed out a common Rastafari misconception, but you also were aware that many Rastafari folks speak Amharic and know the corrections? Further, in the concept of Ras Tafari, this phrase has a dual meaning.  The literal meaning is "Head Feared-One" as you've already pointed out, so some folks are merely affirming that God is one to be Feared.  Folks like myself, who do not worship but do continue venerate the Emperor, use this term to acknowledge that it is through the Person of Ras Tafari, who is HIM Haile Selassie I, that God Almighty perpetuates His Divine Theocratic Order of Creation, that the modern, colonial, Babylonian world is a merely a facade, a dirty mirror like Paul mentioned, but the Truth of God is remaining in His Kingdom and through David His servant

Oh habte, this is completely grabbing straw definition you just gave which probably emanated after you have seen what I interpreted as his name, one you have already seen that Gebere's definition did not hold water. so you are trying to come up with a newly invented definition for the blasphemous term.  well if as you said those who understand the Amharic language have seen it, they would lough at the conclusion you just arrived at, but if they are orthodox they will be horrified by the so called misconception , misuse of language. unless ofc they are arrogant and continue to insist it does not matter, and it can be used either way, to which the orthodox church will say NO WAY to. there is no such dual meaning int he Rastafarian movement , the message is clear JAH RASTAFARI means rastafari IS JAH, this has been a time proven declaration of their faith. now you say it is to say that God is one to be feared, oh please by anyones linguistic deciphering ability this is clearly a distortion of language, what it is says is plain and clear. Jah -JEHOVA, Ras- Head  TAFARI - TERRIFYING  let us translate it then, JEHOVA is a terrifying Head! as silly as this is , still that is not what is being said by the Rastafarian's who originally coined the term as their Creed! and for you to say it is to say that the Almighty is the one that perpetuates ...... speech really another straw grabbing definition.  say what you like the fact remains JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI those rastafarians who say it will be asked to stop saying it if they intend to join the orthodox church, and those who still hang on to their idol then they too will be constantly 'reminded' that JAH ain't no RASTAFARI.

I have no issue with venerating the Emperor, however using that term to do so, whatever you say it means now, I am here to tell you it is not Orthodox! it is Rastafarian creed that snick in with the converts who still can not separate themselves from their former attachment. and dare to say JAH RASTAFARI!

As to the dreadlocks Ethiopians  I assure you its a fashion statement, none of them who know their history and have no fanciful ideas about the Emperor being a deity claim to be Rastafarian's in the manner you protray. it was not a dirty game to say words matter and just as we  the Orthodox do not say Paul is risen! we will never say JAH RASTAFARI.

as to Ethiopians leaving their country and needing an example to stay in their country. it just shows how little you know of the plight of Ethiopians or how you disregard it.  Ethiopians who love their mother land dearly , would not contemplate leave her and their beloved people had conditions not been a life and death situation. but I will not speak of this in here. continue to say oh Ethiopians who went to Babylon etc etc. 

Honestly speaking everyone can see what JAH RASTAFARI means, I can not go into another circular argument I already had with Gebere, I understand you share his views,  and my point to all that might see this is that The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church does reject such utter blasphemy.



Hiwot, dear sister, you are doing the same annoying thing that Evangelical fundamentalists do when they try to tell us Orthodox what we believe- i.e. "You Orthodox worship Mary, idolize icons, etc." Rather than defending their own belief system, they try to attack Orthodoxy out of ignorance and misinformation. This is exactly what you are doing here, presuming to lecture us about the Rastafarian movement when you obviously know nothing about it. Orthodoxy is not evangelical fundamentalism, condemning and judging others out of ignorance and fear. If that's the version of Christianity you want to practice, then the Tewahedo Faith is not for you. There are plenty of fundamentalist churches that will be glad to accommodate you and your judgmental attitude.


Selam
Why call her "dear sister" and then propose that she leave the Church? Oh, the hypocrisy!

EDIT: I meant to say "passive aggressive." But my first comment still stands.
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« Reply #97 on: November 09, 2011, 05:31:53 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



Oh habte, this is completely grabbing straw definition you just gave which probably emanated after you have seen what I interpreted as his name, one you have already seen that Gebere's definition did not hold water. so you are trying to come up with a newly invented definition for the blasphemous term.  well if as you said those who understand the Amharic language have seen it, they would lough at the conclusion you just arrived at, but if they are orthodox they will be horrified by the so called misconception , misuse of language. unless ofc they are arrogant and continue to insist it does not matter, and it can be used either way, to which the orthodox church will say NO WAY to. there is no such dual meaning int he Rastafarian movement , the message is clear JAH RASTAFARI means rastafari IS JAH, this has been a time proven declaration of their faith. now you say it is to say that God is one to be feared, oh please by anyones linguistic deciphering ability this is clearly a distortion of language, what it is says is plain and clear. Jah -JEHOVA, Ras- Head  TAFARI - TERRIFYING  let us translate it then, JEHOVA is a terrifying Head! as silly as this is , still that is not what is being said by the Rastafarian's who originally coined the term as their Creed! and for you to say it is to say that the Almighty is the one that perpetuates ...... speech really another straw grabbing definition.  say what you like the fact remains JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI those rastafarians who say it will be asked to stop saying it if they intend to join the orthodox church, and those who still hang on to their idol then they too will be constantly 'reminded' that JAH ain't no RASTAFARI.


As to the dreadlocks Ethiopians  I assure you its a fashion statement, none of them who know their history and have no fanciful ideas about the Emperor being a deity claim to be Rastafarian's in the manner you protray. it was not a dirty game to say words matter and just as we  the Orthodox do not say Paul is risen! we will never say JAH RASTAFARI.



my kind sister you sure love to pontificate based upon ignorant assumptions and generalizations.  Oh, so I only learned the truth of an Amharic phrase I  have been using for my entire adult life because of what you posted? Get over yourself please, you can only insult so much before we bring out the real.  As we say in Rastafari, "if a fish woulda keep him big yap shut, him never woulda got caught in the first place" and as I said, in regards to Rastafari/Ethiopian connections, you clearly have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, so maybe it would be best if you asked questions instead of making rude and ignorant accusations?

Further, language is a code used by individuals and communities to communicate.  It is dynamic, it is evolving, it is localized and individualized.  Just because YOU read a phrase or some words a particular way, doesn't make that the way others use or understand these terms, sorry.  We in Rastafari have told you what WE MEAN when we speak certain words, if you disagree with our meanings that is fine, but how can you tell us what we mean when we speak? That is some arrogance you have there, and it is surprising considering how insightful and spiritual your posts have been, well these on this thread are an about-face 180 towards negativity and cynicism.  That doesn't sound anything like the Sis Hiwot we have known here, sorry if we touched a nerve, but you need to be a bit more responsible in the way you express yourself, you have been rather rude and insultingly insensitive to a lot of people's honest and sincere testimonies.  Why don't you listen to what people are saying rather then speaking over them as if YOU were the expert on things you clearly are not? We learn A LOT from your posts here, but not on this one.  Why don't you learn a bit from us like we enjoy learning from you?

Dreadlocked Ethiopians are just a fashion, some, true, but how can you generalize against all? How can you dismiss the testimony of folks like myself who actually know and have met actual Ethiopian Rastafari people? Again, you have had a lot of nerve coming here to boss everybody around as if you were the expert and we were a bunch of highschool kids listening to Bob Marley records and pretending to be Rastas.  We are Rastafari people here, and we know Rastafari culture and history, and we are Rastafari Orthodox, and we know this history and all its players personally, including HH Abune Yesehaq and many others.  Why would you insult our testimony as if it were not valid, and as if it were you who knew all these people when clearly you don't by the things you've said? If you feel we are misrepresenting Ethiopia you can speak on that, but please don't insist on misrepresenting we Rastafari Orthodox when we are standing here ready to speak for ourselves if you would only listen beyond your ideologue blinders?

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Oh not to mention the contradictory definition of terms you who call yourselves rastafarians have used to define what you mean when you say JAH RASTAFARI, but you also insist that it is an Orthodox Term which is a scandlus , arrogant and ignorant thing to say not to mention  Blasphemous. there is no getting around it, We know it is the Emperor's Name that is RASTAFARI , it is the Emperor that you will sing hymns of praise to JAH RASTAFARI , it is the Emperor who was worshiped by the founding elders of RASTAFARIAN movement, I am well aware of the political reasons behind it, as well as the Religious connotations professed by it. you say you know Amharic, good for you, yetibeb mejemeria egziabherin mefrat new! / The beginning of Wisdom is the Fear of God. your politics aside fear the God you blaspheme when you use the same term that is being used by those blasphemers you say you have no communion with.

Rastafari Mekonin's name can by no means or term be used to express the VERY ESSENCE of  the ALLMIGHTY, or What is rightfully due to Him. The Church has a Creed she uses to adore and worship the One True God. No need to borrow the name of a MAN to express that God is to be feared.  this stinks of Idolatry to high heavens! In matters of FAITH use Orthodox terminology or do not say you speak in the name of / or as do the Orthodox faithful of  the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church!

if the Rastafarian faith have managed to get converts to it from Ethiopians its more the reason why one must oppose it vehemently. but as to the Political side of Rastafarian movement, as politics all are free to join it or ignore it. and I am well aware of its significance politically. spare yourself the need to educate me on the political side of things.

I am speaking for my Faith as Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Christian,  and I  say  JAH is NOT RAS TAFARI ! This is the heart of the matter that you guys are insisting it aint so and in a shameful manner at that. Here we part our ways.

Teferi mekonin is dead! God rest his soul! Christ is Risen Glorify Him!
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« Reply #98 on: November 09, 2011, 05:33:19 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Distortion distortion! goodness! what shameful thing to do, Racism has no place in Ethiopian orthodox church, those who preach it are not part of it period they excommunicate themselves, our Dogma will not be compromised by JAH RASTAFARI BS . Its sickening to hear all this straw grasping attempt at rationalising what can never ever be rationalised and trying to divert it to political issues that's even more disgusting!
 your friend came and spewed filth in the name of the blessed bishop, and the Orthodox Faith, God forgive you guys for supporting such filth as orthodox.

What racism? Last I checked, I am White, and brother Ras Zacka has never uttered anything close to resembling a racist or prejudicial word to me. Once again, you've got your guns of judgment firing wildly.


Selam
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« Reply #99 on: November 09, 2011, 05:35:24 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



Oh habte, this is completely grabbing straw definition you just gave which probably emanated after you have seen what I interpreted as his name, one you have already seen that Gebere's definition did not hold water. so you are trying to come up with a newly invented definition for the blasphemous term.  well if as you said those who understand the Amharic language have seen it, they would lough at the conclusion you just arrived at, but if they are orthodox they will be horrified by the so called misconception , misuse of language. unless ofc they are arrogant and continue to insist it does not matter, and it can be used either way, to which the orthodox church will say NO WAY to. there is no such dual meaning int he Rastafarian movement , the message is clear JAH RASTAFARI means rastafari IS JAH, this has been a time proven declaration of their faith. now you say it is to say that God is one to be feared, oh please by anyones linguistic deciphering ability this is clearly a distortion of language, what it is says is plain and clear. Jah -JEHOVA, Ras- Head  TAFARI - TERRIFYING  let us translate it then, JEHOVA is a terrifying Head! as silly as this is , still that is not what is being said by the Rastafarian's who originally coined the term as their Creed! and for you to say it is to say that the Almighty is the one that perpetuates ...... speech really another straw grabbing definition.  say what you like the fact remains JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI those rastafarians who say it will be asked to stop saying it if they intend to join the orthodox church, and those who still hang on to their idol then they too will be constantly 'reminded' that JAH ain't no RASTAFARI.


As to the dreadlocks Ethiopians  I assure you its a fashion statement, none of them who know their history and have no fanciful ideas about the Emperor being a deity claim to be Rastafarian's in the manner you protray. it was not a dirty game to say words matter and just as we  the Orthodox do not say Paul is risen! we will never say JAH RASTAFARI.



my kind sister you sure love to pontificate based upon ignorant assumptions and generalizations.  Oh, so I only learned the truth of an Amharic phrase I  have been using for my entire adult life because of what you posted? Get over yourself please, you can only insult so much before we bring out the real.  As we say in Rastafari, "if a fish woulda keep him big yap shut, him never woulda got caught in the first place" and as I said, in regards to Rastafari/Ethiopian connections, you clearly have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, so maybe it would be best if you asked questions instead of making rude and ignorant accusations?

Further, language is a code used by individuals and communities to communicate.  It is dynamic, it is evolving, it is localized and individualized.  Just because YOU read a phrase or some words a particular way, doesn't make that the way others use or understand these terms, sorry.  We in Rastafari have told you what WE MEAN when we speak certain words, if you disagree with our meanings that is fine, but how can you tell us what we mean when we speak? That is some arrogance you have there, and it is surprising considering how insightful and spiritual your posts have been, well these on this thread are an about-face 180 towards negativity and cynicism.  That doesn't sound anything like the Sis Hiwot we have known here, sorry if we touched a nerve, but you need to be a bit more responsible in the way you express yourself, you have been rather rude and insultingly insensitive to a lot of people's honest and sincere testimonies.  Why don't you listen to what people are saying rather then speaking over them as if YOU were the expert on things you clearly are not? We learn A LOT from your posts here, but not on this one.  Why don't you learn a bit from us like we enjoy learning from you?

Dreadlocked Ethiopians are just a fashion, some, true, but how can you generalize against all? How can you dismiss the testimony of folks like myself who actually know and have met actual Ethiopian Rastafari people? Again, you have had a lot of nerve coming here to boss everybody around as if you were the expert and we were a bunch of highschool kids listening to Bob Marley records and pretending to be Rastas.  We are Rastafari people here, and we know Rastafari culture and history, and we are Rastafari Orthodox, and we know this history and all its players personally, including HH Abune Yesehaq and many others.  Why would you insult our testimony as if it were not valid, and as if it were you who knew all these people when clearly you don't by the things you've said? If you feel we are misrepresenting Ethiopia you can speak on that, but please don't insist on misrepresenting we Rastafari Orthodox when we are standing here ready to speak for ourselves if you would only listen beyond your ideologue blinders?

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Habte, as an outsider reading this thread, I really don't see that your criticism's of Hiwot's posts are warranted. There is obviously a serious divide between cradle Ethiopian Orthodox and the converts coming from the Rasta movement who still carry their Rasta identity/terminology to varying degrees. This is true in other Orthodox churches as well. As a convert myself, I am aware of this in many instances and find that it's best to be open about it, to acknowledge the fact that there are different and sometimes competing understandings. I've certainly seen a lot along these lines in this thread, much of it along the lines of converts doing the pontificating about what those who grew up in the faith should do or think. I think Hiwot has a very valid point. Saying "God is Rastafari" and meaning something other than the Emperor being God amongst a group of people who may very well misunderstand what you are saying or think that you agree with them (that the Emperor is God) is misleading at best. One must consider the audience and the impression one gives. For an Orthodox Christian to even give the impression that His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I is God is like rejecting Christ and denying his baptism.
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« Reply #100 on: November 09, 2011, 05:36:48 PM »

yes, you have correctly pointed out a common Rastafari misconception, but you also were aware that many Rastafari folks speak Amharic and know the corrections? Further, in the concept of Ras Tafari, this phrase has a dual meaning.  The literal meaning is "Head Feared-One" as you've already pointed out, so some folks are merely affirming that God is one to be Feared.  Folks like myself, who do not worship but do continue venerate the Emperor, use this term to acknowledge that it is through the Person of Ras Tafari, who is HIM Haile Selassie I, that God Almighty perpetuates His Divine Theocratic Order of Creation, that the modern, colonial, Babylonian world is a merely a facade, a dirty mirror like Paul mentioned, but the Truth of God is remaining in His Kingdom and through David His servant

Oh habte, this is completely grabbing straw definition you just gave which probably emanated after you have seen what I interpreted as his name, one you have already seen that Gebere's definition did not hold water. so you are trying to come up with a newly invented definition for the blasphemous term.  well if as you said those who understand the Amharic language have seen it, they would lough at the conclusion you just arrived at, but if they are orthodox they will be horrified by the so called misconception , misuse of language. unless ofc they are arrogant and continue to insist it does not matter, and it can be used either way, to which the orthodox church will say NO WAY to. there is no such dual meaning int he Rastafarian movement , the message is clear JAH RASTAFARI means rastafari IS JAH, this has been a time proven declaration of their faith. now you say it is to say that God is one to be feared, oh please by anyones linguistic deciphering ability this is clearly a distortion of language, what it is says is plain and clear. Jah -JEHOVA, Ras- Head  TAFARI - TERRIFYING  let us translate it then, JEHOVA is a terrifying Head! as silly as this is , still that is not what is being said by the Rastafarian's who originally coined the term as their Creed! and for you to say it is to say that the Almighty is the one that perpetuates ...... speech really another straw grabbing definition.  say what you like the fact remains JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI those rastafarians who say it will be asked to stop saying it if they intend to join the orthodox church, and those who still hang on to their idol then they too will be constantly 'reminded' that JAH ain't no RASTAFARI.

I have no issue with venerating the Emperor, however using that term to do so, whatever you say it means now, I am here to tell you it is not Orthodox! it is Rastafarian creed that snick in with the converts who still can not separate themselves from their former attachment. and dare to say JAH RASTAFARI!

As to the dreadlocks Ethiopians  I assure you its a fashion statement, none of them who know their history and have no fanciful ideas about the Emperor being a deity claim to be Rastafarian's in the manner you protray. it was not a dirty game to say words matter and just as we  the Orthodox do not say Paul is risen! we will never say JAH RASTAFARI.

as to Ethiopians leaving their country and needing an example to stay in their country. it just shows how little you know of the plight of Ethiopians or how you disregard it.  Ethiopians who love their mother land dearly , would not contemplate leave her and their beloved people had conditions not been a life and death situation. but I will not speak of this in here. continue to say oh Ethiopians who went to Babylon etc etc. 

Honestly speaking everyone can see what JAH RASTAFARI means, I can not go into another circular argument I already had with Gebere, I understand you share his views,  and my point to all that might see this is that The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church does reject such utter blasphemy.



Hiwot, dear sister, you are doing the same annoying thing that Evangelical fundamentalists do when they try to tell us Orthodox what we believe- i.e. "You Orthodox worship Mary, idolize icons, etc." Rather than defending their own belief system, they try to attack Orthodoxy out of ignorance and misinformation. This is exactly what you are doing here, presuming to lecture us about the Rastafarian movement when you obviously know nothing about it. Orthodoxy is not evangelical fundamentalism, condemning and judging others out of ignorance and fear. If that's the version of Christianity you want to practice, then the Tewahedo Faith is not for you. There are plenty of fundamentalist churches that will be glad to accommodate you and your judgmental attitude.


Selam
Why call her "dear sister" and then propose that she leave the Church? Oh, the hypocrisy!

EDIT: I meant to say "passive aggressive." But my first comment still stands.


I call even my Catholic and Protestant friends "brother" and "sister." And if you will read through this thread, you will see that I have never once questioned Hiwot's Orthodox faith; however she has accused me time and again of being an unOrthodox idolater. No hypocrisy from me here.


Selam
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« Reply #101 on: November 09, 2011, 05:38:12 PM »

I know nothing about Ethiopia, HIM, Rastafarianism, or anything else being discussed here. Except for this, speaking of grammar naziïsm:

I dont agree with anyone using that title other than the One who truly deserves it. The Lord Jesus Christ.

"King of kings" is, I believe, a Hebraicism. To repeat the word twice is an intensifier.

In English we say "supreme court". A Hebraicized version might be "court of courts." "Commander-in-chief" might be "commander of commanders."

It is a language construct which can apply to Christ, or it can apply to general secular systems. Sort of like the term "Lord". It can refer to Christ, or it can refer to a member of the peerage. The term itself is not restricted to any particular use, and calling a person "Lord" does not threaten Christ's Lordship.

In any case, it is a legitimate title in a political system where there are lesser kings under the authority of a greater king. Distaste for the term simply means that in English we have come to use it in a specific way. Your mileage will vary in other languages and cultures.
If that was the onl;y title ascribed to Christ and this man I would not have a problem with it. The actual title was:

Quote
King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, Elect of God, Light of This World, King of Zion, King of Israel
Legitimize it any way you want. I dont think anyone should have those titles given to them except One. You dont agree, thats cool.

Actually the form that bogdan is pointing out is very helpful  for reading Scripture in English translation even in versions which attempt to avoid such Hebraicisms (you usually can still tell they were there, once you are keen to the them).

Who knows what would have come of all the complexity attributed to the use of man's being made in God's image and likeness if such repeated and parallel uses of words were known simply as a form of a emphasizing a single point. Much ink spilled. Perhaps Providentially for the good, but perhaps to more complexity than needed.

Again, this is getting VERY tangential and I am finished. Again, content for a proper and non-contentious thread.
Point taken

PP
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« Reply #102 on: November 09, 2011, 05:39:42 PM »

yes, you have correctly pointed out a common Rastafari misconception, but you also were aware that many Rastafari folks speak Amharic and know the corrections? Further, in the concept of Ras Tafari, this phrase has a dual meaning.  The literal meaning is "Head Feared-One" as you've already pointed out, so some folks are merely affirming that God is one to be Feared.  Folks like myself, who do not worship but do continue venerate the Emperor, use this term to acknowledge that it is through the Person of Ras Tafari, who is HIM Haile Selassie I, that God Almighty perpetuates His Divine Theocratic Order of Creation, that the modern, colonial, Babylonian world is a merely a facade, a dirty mirror like Paul mentioned, but the Truth of God is remaining in His Kingdom and through David His servant

Oh habte, this is completely grabbing straw definition you just gave which probably emanated after you have seen what I interpreted as his name, one you have already seen that Gebere's definition did not hold water. so you are trying to come up with a newly invented definition for the blasphemous term.  well if as you said those who understand the Amharic language have seen it, they would lough at the conclusion you just arrived at, but if they are orthodox they will be horrified by the so called misconception , misuse of language. unless ofc they are arrogant and continue to insist it does not matter, and it can be used either way, to which the orthodox church will say NO WAY to. there is no such dual meaning int he Rastafarian movement , the message is clear JAH RASTAFARI means rastafari IS JAH, this has been a time proven declaration of their faith. now you say it is to say that God is one to be feared, oh please by anyones linguistic deciphering ability this is clearly a distortion of language, what it is says is plain and clear. Jah -JEHOVA, Ras- Head  TAFARI - TERRIFYING  let us translate it then, JEHOVA is a terrifying Head! as silly as this is , still that is not what is being said by the Rastafarian's who originally coined the term as their Creed! and for you to say it is to say that the Almighty is the one that perpetuates ...... speech really another straw grabbing definition.  say what you like the fact remains JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI those rastafarians who say it will be asked to stop saying it if they intend to join the orthodox church, and those who still hang on to their idol then they too will be constantly 'reminded' that JAH ain't no RASTAFARI.

I have no issue with venerating the Emperor, however using that term to do so, whatever you say it means now, I am here to tell you it is not Orthodox! it is Rastafarian creed that snick in with the converts who still can not separate themselves from their former attachment. and dare to say JAH RASTAFARI!

As to the dreadlocks Ethiopians  I assure you its a fashion statement, none of them who know their history and have no fanciful ideas about the Emperor being a deity claim to be Rastafarian's in the manner you protray. it was not a dirty game to say words matter and just as we  the Orthodox do not say Paul is risen! we will never say JAH RASTAFARI.

as to Ethiopians leaving their country and needing an example to stay in their country. it just shows how little you know of the plight of Ethiopians or how you disregard it.  Ethiopians who love their mother land dearly , would not contemplate leave her and their beloved people had conditions not been a life and death situation. but I will not speak of this in here. continue to say oh Ethiopians who went to Babylon etc etc.  

Honestly speaking everyone can see what JAH RASTAFARI means, I can not go into another circular argument I already had with Gebere, I understand you share his views,  and my point to all that might see this is that The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church does reject such utter blasphemy.



Hiwot, dear sister, you are doing the same annoying thing that Evangelical fundamentalists do when they try to tell us Orthodox what we believe- i.e. "You Orthodox worship Mary, idolize icons, etc." Rather than defending their own belief system, they try to attack Orthodoxy out of ignorance and misinformation. This is exactly what you are doing here, presuming to lecture us about the Rastafarian movement when you obviously know nothing about it. Orthodoxy is not evangelical fundamentalism, condemning and judging others out of ignorance and fear. If that's the version of Christianity you want to practice, then the Tewahedo Faith is not for you. There are plenty of fundamentalist churches that will be glad to accommodate you and your judgmental attitude.


Selam

Oh Gebre We the Orthodox never say JAH MARY and argue with the Evangelicals or any other Christians saying "but but but we do not really mean to say MARY IS JAH  or JAH MARY its just something else".  Roll Eyes Never ! the Orthodox have words that Holy Ecumenical Councils deliberated and decided on as Orthodox and denounced anyone who uses other term than the assigned and fitting to the MOST HOLY THEOTOKOS, and we will defend this title with our very lives if need be. which council came up with the term used for Teferi mekonin , as JAH RASTAFARI? for this blasphemy the Orthodox have no place for!
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« Reply #103 on: November 09, 2011, 05:39:47 PM »

So it's better to tell a sister to get out of the Church? [sarcasm redacted]

If you can't see how badly worded, at the very least, your statements in that post are, shame on you.
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« Reply #104 on: November 09, 2011, 05:49:22 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Let me point of the truths of Ras Zacka's post since folks seem to be too caught up in BS to actually read his words.

He mentioned that HIM is the father figure of Africans, both at home and abroad, and this is absolute truth.  If Ethiopians don't want to be a part of this, fine and dandy, but you can't close pandora's box after the lid is lifted, and HIM campaigned tirelessly across Africa and the African diaspora for decades building tangible links, founding Churches and sociocultural and political institutions like the Ethiopian World Federation.  This is HIM legacy, and literally HH Yesehaq is the pioneer of this movement being the first Ethiopian Bishop sent outside of Africa, specifically to the Diaspora under HIM personal orders.  This is our history, we venerate it as highly as Ethiopians venerate the memory of our dear Saint Abba Selama, who brought Orthodox Light to Ethiopia, and HH Yesehaq and many other dear elders of the Tewahedo Church equally brought this light to we in the Americas who had not such foundation in Orthodox, nor any access to Baptism or Communion. Further, it spreads across Africa, as one of my favorite Ethiopian priests is tirelessly on the move across Africa visiting and preaching and organizing within Ethiopian parishes for Ethiopian expats across Africa and also for African converts.  The Greek Patriarch in Alexandria can make all the claims to Africa HH wants, but Africa is rightfully under African's jurisdiction, and that is the Coptic and Tewahedo Church, and our Tewahedo clergy are making many moves across the African continent to bolster Orthodox.

As I pointed out before, Ethiopia has been a symbol for Africans in the diaspora since Abyssinian days, and HIM legacy is to expand this tangibly, directly, and I couldn't make this history up if I tried.  We're not doing anything new, since the 400s the Ethiopian Church and conversion into it has been the way in which indigenous Ethiopians conform and are adopted into the pluralistic Ethiopian society.  Amharic is almost more so a culture than a race, and it is adopted through life in the Church, which has been Ethiopia's primary mode of cultural transmission.  We in Rastafari, are merely jumping on board with an ancient tradition.  Are we trying to politicize the Church, quite the opposite, we are trying through the Church to get entirely out of politricks.

The brother mentioned spies and assassinations, and if any Ethiopians here deny or keep quiet about these matters, it is only because they know the gravity of the situation.  Rastafari is a movement that from its very conception has been antagonized, demonized, and targeted for destruction by incarceration, misinformation, and at worse assassination.  This is why we don't write our history in books, it has never been safe.  Today, we are becoming some kind of threat to the Ethiopian government, which routinely uses assassination and corruption to thwart its internal enemies in Ethiopia, and we Rastafari are falling under that least because we are unapologetic monarchists, and as much as sistern like Hiwot want to deny it, the desire for a return to the cultural pride and fellowship of a common Ethiopian identity which the Emperors provided as a symbol is so palpable its dense, after all, this ethnic federalism has only further divided what the Derg left of that regal Ethiopian civilization of old.  Today, Ethiopians are as divided as ever, and if they don't want to admit it that is fine, but their political divisions bleed into our Rastafari organizations and communities.  As the Bro mentioned, exiled priests and clergy of the EOTC are victims of slander, abuse, and even physical harm by supporters of the current Ethiopian regime.  This is a dangerous fact which we here in this exile community are concretely aware of.  We pray for the safety our priests and community every day, because it is literally more dangerous than folks might understand, but as we say in Rastafari, "Who feels it knows it."

He mentioned the good Rastafari people do for Ethiopia, we are school teachers, civic leaders, and other kinds of NGO operators within Ethiopia, why do we get disrespected while non-Orthodox Doctors Without Borders or the Red Cross are idealized while we are demonized for mutual efforts in the same direction? HIM assigned Rastafari people a mission, to help Ethiopia, and we continue it with our blood, sweat and tears.  If any Ethiopians disagree with us, fine for them, but we will not let that stop us from continuing our mission.  We are not against Ethiopia, neither are we trying to shape Ethiopia in our image, but we are not foreign colonizers, were a sincere converts and adoptees, and we wish Ethiopians would accept us as readily as we Americans accept Ethiopians in our communities as expats.  It is only fair isn't it?

Now as to the brothers comments about Ethiopians taking communion, or development projects in Shashamane, those are his personal opinions and he is entitled for them to be respected, even if folks disagree, and personally, as an active member of an Ethiopian parish, I agree that folks need to up their game in regards to receiving Qurban, this is a matter of prayer however, not arguments. The drama and danger of the Derg era, I feel, has scarred and scared Ethiopians away from Communion, when historically this was not the case.  It is the first words of our Liturgy to say,"If there is anyone of the faithful that hath entered the Church at the time of Mass and has not received the Holy Communion, let him be driven out of the Church."

 I would never tell ANYONE they need to take Communion, but I would pray that EVERYONE takes it as often as God provides for them.  When I go to Coptic parish, the ENTIRE Church communes together, where as when I commune in the Ethiopian Church, I am literally one of only a dozen men out of hundreds of regular attendees who do such. Surely Ras Zacka is correct to assume there is something wrong with this picture.

In regards to the comments about Ethiopian kids here in the US, that is spot on.  I am currently working with my priests and the Education Steering Committee to redesign our curriculum and to retool our program, specifically to address the crucial issues about this generation gap that is growing.  My priests simply ADORE the efforts of the THREE Rastafari people who work within our program, and they see the fruit that we are building mutually as a parish community.  My students and their families adore me and our efforts, and we know the struggle is real.  Ethiopian-American kids are in danger of dropping the Church, and with the rise of the Pentes, this is an existential threat to the Church even in Ethiopia. So we can either dismiss Ras Zacka's comments as unrealistic, or we can deal with reality and tackle these complex issues in our Church. 

Further,  this was also part of HH Abune Yesehaq's personal campaigns, to reform Sunday School, to openly recruit and include the growing generations into the Church, and to include English and other translations to make it very clear for coming generations who may speak Amharic, but do not use it as an intellectual language because many of these young Ethiopians have been taught in school strictly in English.  They need the help, I can vouch for this from my tangible experience with the young Ethiopians in under my instruction.  We learn mutually from each other, something some folks here on this forum just can't seem to understand or agree with, but reality speaks for itself, and we the workers will not be discouraged by the doubting Thomases and the nay-sayers. 

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #105 on: November 09, 2011, 05:59:11 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Distortion distortion! goodness! what shameful thing to do, Racism has no place in Ethiopian orthodox church, those who preach it are not part of it period they excommunicate themselves, our Dogma will not be compromised by JAH RASTAFARI BS . Its sickening to hear all this straw grasping attempt at rationalising what can never ever be rationalised and trying to divert it to political issues that's even more disgusting!
 your friend came and spewed filth in the name of the blessed bishop, and the Orthodox Faith, God forgive you guys for supporting such filth as orthodox.

What racism? Last I checked, I am White, and brother Ras Zacka has never uttered anything close to resembling a racist or prejudicial word to me. Once again, you've got your guns of judgment firing wildly.


Selam

Oh so you think just because you are White if you were to support  things like black love, black poweretc it should not be read as racist? this like people who say :"I myself am black, but black people are such and such ...insert racist comment!" racism by anyone is racism!  OFC you would say he never uttered anything close to resembling a racist or prejudicial word to you.  there is a lot of filth in what he said but his racism speaks well of what he is, a racist bigot.
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« Reply #106 on: November 09, 2011, 05:59:42 PM »

HabteSelassie,

Thank you for your exegesis on Ras Zacka's post.  Truly, I had great trouble understanding it.  Much of what was written by him presupposes A LOT regarding Ethiopian and Rastafarian history, let alone the unorthodox style in which it was written made it very difficult for me to understand.  I was not "caught up in BS to actually read his words;" I genuinely could not understand much of it.  Had he written as you just did, in cogent, understandable English with some more exposition on certain facets of history, I would have not had to become actively engaged in this discussion.

Again, thank you.
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« Reply #107 on: November 09, 2011, 06:02:21 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



Habte, as an outsider reading this thread, I really don't see that your criticism's of Hiwot's posts are warranted. There is obviously a serious divide between cradle Ethiopian Orthodox and the converts coming from the Rasta movement who still carry their Rasta identity/terminology to varying degrees. This is true in other Orthodox churches as well. As a convert myself, I am aware of this in many instances and find that it's best to be open about it, to acknowledge the fact that there are different and sometimes competing understandings. I've certainly seen a lot along these lines in this thread, much of it along the lines of converts doing the pontificating about what those who grew up in the faith should do or think. I think Hiwot has a very valid point. Saying "God is Rastafari" and meaning something other than the Emperor being God amongst a group of people who may very well misunderstand what you are saying or think that you agree with them (that the Emperor is God) is misleading at best. One must consider the audience and the impression one gives. For an Orthodox Christian to even give the impression that His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I is God is like rejecting Christ and denying his baptism.

I've already invested three hours just on this thread when I really should be working on the curriculum project my priests assigned me to, but as an Orthodox Rastafari communicating the truth accurately on this thread is very important to me, which is why I am the one who started it, and while I see it as no waste of time to be here so long..


We are not trying to tell a Ethiopians what to do, and we are not trying to insinuate that the Church should inherently use our terms, however we are trying to elaborate many slanderous things accused against, including this sister blatantly trying to deny the Orthodox of no less than THREE members of her Church.  How is that a valid argument, simply to dismiss others as being invalid and move on? Further, she isn't tackling the bigger political and cultural issues that have been discussed here, she keeps insisting on this blasphemy charge, and constructing straw-man fallacy arguments against us,even when we have very elaborately explained ourselves.  We can't explain ourselves any  longer, and this conversation has become needlessly "us against them" when that was never the intention of me even starting this thread in the first place.  It is not a "cradle vs convert" issue, all the "cradle" Ethiopians I know have never disrespected Rastafari people as much as this sister insists, and they have never ben as insulting or argumentative with me about these issues.  So I honestly will have to disregard her opinion simply because she insists on repeating the same inaccurate generalizations and accusations without actually considering the responses that folks here have posted to her wild claims.  I'm sorry to her for this, but the truth is truth, and she can't expect us to all agree with her when she condemns us as not being members of the Church we are, of not being a part of the community which we are, and of not knowing what we are talking about, when we do.  If she personally isn't familiar with these issues, maybe she shouldn't have posted dozens of ignorant diatribes here? As I said before, "If a fish woulda keep him big yap shut, him never woulda got caught in the first place."

And as Jah B, Bunny Wailer said confidently about these matters, arguments and misunderstandings aside, "The flag has still got to be hoisted."

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #108 on: November 09, 2011, 06:06:17 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



Habte, as an outsider reading this thread, I really don't see that your criticism's of Hiwot's posts are warranted. There is obviously a serious divide between cradle Ethiopian Orthodox and the converts coming from the Rasta movement who still carry their Rasta identity/terminology to varying degrees. This is true in other Orthodox churches as well. As a convert myself, I am aware of this in many instances and find that it's best to be open about it, to acknowledge the fact that there are different and sometimes competing understandings. I've certainly seen a lot along these lines in this thread, much of it along the lines of converts doing the pontificating about what those who grew up in the faith should do or think. I think Hiwot has a very valid point. Saying "God is Rastafari" and meaning something other than the Emperor being God amongst a group of people who may very well misunderstand what you are saying or think that you agree with them (that the Emperor is God) is misleading at best. One must consider the audience and the impression one gives. For an Orthodox Christian to even give the impression that His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I is God is like rejecting Christ and denying his baptism.

I've already invested three hours just on this thread when I really should be working on the curriculum project my priests assigned me to, but as an Orthodox Rastafari communicating the truth accurately on this thread is very important to me, which is why I am the one who started it, and while I see it as no waste of time to be here so long..


We are not trying to tell a Ethiopians what to do, and we are not trying to insinuate that the Church should inherently use our terms, however we are trying to elaborate many slanderous things accused against, including this sister blatantly trying to deny the Orthodox of no less than THREE members of her Church.  How is that a valid argument, simply to dismiss others as being invalid and move on? Further, she isn't tackling the bigger political and cultural issues that have been discussed here, she keeps insisting on this blasphemy charge, and constructing straw-man fallacy arguments against us,even when we have very elaborately explained ourselves.  We can't explain ourselves any  longer, and this conversation has become needlessly "us against them" when that was never the intention of me even starting this thread in the first place.  It is not a "cradle vs convert" issue, all the "cradle" Ethiopians I know have never disrespected Rastafari people as much as this sister insists, and they have never ben as insulting or argumentative with me about these issues.  So I honestly will have to disregard her opinion simply because she insists on repeating the same inaccurate generalizations and accusations without actually considering the responses that folks here have posted to her wild claims.  I'm sorry to her for this, but the truth is truth, and she can't expect us to all agree with her when she condemns us as not being members of the Church we are, of not being a part of the community which we are, and of not knowing what we are talking about, when we do.  If she personally isn't familiar with these issues, maybe she shouldn't have posted dozens of ignorant diatribes here? As I said before, "If a fish woulda keep him big yap shut, him never woulda got caught in the first place."

And as Jah B, Bunny Wailer said confidently about these matters, arguments and misunderstandings aside, "The flag has still got to be hoisted."

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Habte,

Thank you for replying. I don't know much about Rastafarianism, but you referred to "Jah B, Bunny Wailer," and I was wondering who that is, and what the "Jah" meant.
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« Reply #109 on: November 09, 2011, 06:18:36 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Let me point of the truths of Ras Zacka's post since folks seem to be too caught up in BS to actually read his words.

He mentioned that HIM is the father figure of Africans, both at home and abroad, and this is absolute truth.  If Ethiopians don't want to be a part of this, fine and dandy, but you can't close pandora's box after the lid is lifted, and HIM campaigned tirelessly across Africa and the African diaspora for decades building tangible links, founding Churches and sociocultural and political institutions like the Ethiopian World Federation.  This is HIM legacy, and literally HH Yesehaq is the pioneer of this movement being the first Ethiopian Bishop sent outside of Africa, specifically to the Diaspora under HIM personal orders.  This is our history, we venerate it as highly as Ethiopians venerate the memory of our dear Saint Abba Selama, who brought Orthodox Light to Ethiopia, and HH Yesehaq and many other dear elders of the Tewahedo Church equally brought this light to we in the Americas who had not such foundation in Orthodox, nor any access to Baptism or Communion. Further, it spreads across Africa, as one of my favorite Ethiopian priests is tirelessly on the move across Africa visiting and preaching and organizing within Ethiopian parishes for Ethiopian expats across Africa and also for African converts.  The Greek Patriarch in Alexandria can make all the claims to Africa HH wants, but Africa is rightfully under African's jurisdiction, and that is the Coptic and Tewahedo Church, and our Tewahedo clergy are making many moves across the African continent to bolster Orthodox.

As I pointed out before, Ethiopia has been a symbol for Africans in the diaspora since Abyssinian days, and HIM legacy is to expand this tangibly, directly, and I couldn't make this history up if I tried.  We're not doing anything new, since the 400s the Ethiopian Church and conversion into it has been the way in which indigenous Ethiopians conform and are adopted into the pluralistic Ethiopian society.  Amharic is almost more so a culture than a race, and it is adopted through life in the Church, which has been Ethiopia's primary mode of cultural transmission.  We in Rastafari, are merely jumping on board with an ancient tradition.  Are we trying to politicize the Church, quite the opposite, we are trying through the Church to get entirely out of politricks.

The brother mentioned spies and assassinations, and if any Ethiopians here deny or keep quiet about these matters, it is only because they know the gravity of the situation.  Rastafari is a movement that from its very conception has been antagonized, demonized, and targeted for destruction by incarceration, misinformation, and at worse assassination.  This is why we don't write our history in books, it has never been safe.  Today, we are becoming some kind of threat to the Ethiopian government, which routinely uses assassination and corruption to thwart its internal enemies in Ethiopia, and we Rastafari are falling under that least because we are unapologetic monarchists, and as much as sistern like Hiwot want to deny it, the desire for a return to the cultural pride and fellowship of a common Ethiopian identity which the Emperors provided as a symbol is so palpable its dense, after all, this ethnic federalism has only further divided what the Derg left of that regal Ethiopian civilization of old.  Today, Ethiopians are as divided as ever, and if they don't want to admit it that is fine, but their political divisions bleed into our Rastafari organizations and communities.  As the Bro mentioned, exiled priests and clergy of the EOTC are victims of slander, abuse, and even physical harm by supporters of the current Ethiopian regime.  This is a dangerous fact which we here in this exile community are concretely aware of.  We pray for the safety our priests and community every day, because it is literally more dangerous than folks might understand, but as we say in Rastafari, "Who feels it knows it."

He mentioned the good Rastafari people do for Ethiopia, we are school teachers, civic leaders, and other kinds of NGO operators within Ethiopia, why do we get disrespected while non-Orthodox Doctors Without Borders or the Red Cross are idealized while we are demonized for mutual efforts in the same direction? HIM assigned Rastafari people a mission, to help Ethiopia, and we continue it with our blood, sweat and tears.  If any Ethiopians disagree with us, fine for them, but we will not let that stop us from continuing our mission.  We are not against Ethiopia, neither are we trying to shape Ethiopia in our image, but we are not foreign colonizers, were a sincere converts and adoptees, and we wish Ethiopians would accept us as readily as we Americans accept Ethiopians in our communities as expats.  It is only fair isn't it?

Now as to the brothers comments about Ethiopians taking communion, or development projects in Shashamane, those are his personal opinions and he is entitled for them to be respected, even if folks disagree, and personally, as an active member of an Ethiopian parish, I agree that folks need to up their game in regards to receiving Qurban, this is a matter of prayer however, not arguments. The drama and danger of the Derg era, I feel, has scarred and scared Ethiopians away from Communion, when historically this was not the case.  It is the first words of our Liturgy to say,"If there is anyone of the faithful that hath entered the Church at the time of Mass and has not received the Holy Communion, let him be driven out of the Church."

 I would never tell ANYONE they need to take Communion, but I would pray that EVERYONE takes it as often as God provides for them.  When I go to Coptic parish, the ENTIRE Church communes together, where as when I commune in the Ethiopian Church, I am literally one of only a dozen men out of hundreds of regular attendees who do such. Surely Ras Zacka is correct to assume there is something wrong with this picture.

In regards to the comments about Ethiopian kids here in the US, that is spot on.  I am currently working with my priests and the Education Steering Committee to redesign our curriculum and to retool our program, specifically to address the crucial issues about this generation gap that is growing.  My priests simply ADORE the efforts of the THREE Rastafari people who work within our program, and they see the fruit that we are building mutually as a parish community.  My students and their families adore me and our efforts, and we know the struggle is real.  Ethiopian-American kids are in danger of dropping the Church, and with the rise of the Pentes, this is an existential threat to the Church even in Ethiopia. So we can either dismiss Ras Zacka's comments as unrealistic, or we can deal with reality and tackle these complex issues in our Church. 

Further,  this was also part of HH Abune Yesehaq's personal campaigns, to reform Sunday School, to openly recruit and include the growing generations into the Church, and to include English and other translations to make it very clear for coming generations who may speak Amharic, but do not use it as an intellectual language because many of these young Ethiopians have been taught in school strictly in English.  They need the help, I can vouch for this from my tangible experience with the young Ethiopians in under my instruction.  We learn mutually from each other, something some folks here on this forum just can't seem to understand or agree with, but reality speaks for itself, and we the workers will not be discouraged by the doubting Thomases and the nay-sayers. 

stay blessed,
habte selassie


Ethiopians are not against those who would come to Ethiopia and find a home in there , our hospitality is something we hold sacred. However no matter how much economic and political good that might bring to both sides, the problem we are now facing is a union that seems to harbor idolatry tendencies and unorthodox practices. we hold our faith above all things dear . we can discuss all the politics and social governance that currently is of concern to Ethiopia and Ethiopians, and Still it has no baring when it comes to the Faith that is professed by the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.

The making of this issue into a political conspiracy issue is something I will not engage. As my interest is not to dwell on who is doing what for the betterment of Ethiopians or for the Rastafarian political movement. My interest is to Stress that veneration of Saints is authentically Orthodox. I have nothing against venerating those holy men and women of orthodoxy. however the faith confessed by some harbors the tares of heresy and wherever it is seen it will be challenged and refuted. the Orthodox will never accept the scandalous Idolatry terminology of JAH being RASTAFARI.

Venerate Teferi mekonin as a Saint when he is canonised, venerate him privately even now, however JAH RASTAFARI remains the confession of the rastafarians who worship The man Teferi mekonin. and those who say they have joined the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church can not repeat such blasphemy and say JAH RASTAFARI I which specifically refers to JAH IS RASTAFARI the first AKA the Emperor Halie Selassie the First (I).
 
Simple yet a demarcation line. I rest my case.
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« Reply #110 on: November 09, 2011, 06:22:03 PM »

So it's better to tell a sister to get out of the Church? [sarcasm redacted]

If you can't see how badly worded, at the very least, your statements in that post are, shame on you.


To be honest, I was trying to make a point and got caught up in trying to make Hiwot see how it feels to have my faith questioned. But I agree that wasn't very Christian of me. I certainly would NEVER want anyone to leave the Church, regardless of their sins or mistakes. I'm pretty sure Hiwot knows that; but just to be sure, I offer her my sincere apology. Thank you for the reprimand IsmiLiora.


Selam
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« Reply #111 on: November 09, 2011, 06:23:50 PM »

greetings in that divine and most precious name of our lord and savior jesus christ!



 My interest is to Stress that veneration of Saints is authentically Orthodox.

a) yes we get that, its been the only theme of your diatribes.


b) and yet you still refuse to listen to folks explain what they mean when they talk and use terms? I would equally agree with you that Rastafari peoples need to conform to Orthodox, but you are out of line when you condemn others as not being Orthodox even when they explain themselves to you while you refuse to listen.  You can construct all your own straw-man arguments you want, but wouldn't it be better to join our actual conversation instead of the one you seem to be having with yourself?

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #112 on: November 09, 2011, 06:25:32 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Distortion distortion! goodness! what shameful thing to do, Racism has no place in Ethiopian orthodox church, those who preach it are not part of it period they excommunicate themselves, our Dogma will not be compromised by JAH RASTAFARI BS . Its sickening to hear all this straw grasping attempt at rationalising what can never ever be rationalised and trying to divert it to political issues that's even more disgusting!
 your friend came and spewed filth in the name of the blessed bishop, and the Orthodox Faith, God forgive you guys for supporting such filth as orthodox.

What racism? Last I checked, I am White, and brother Ras Zacka has never uttered anything close to resembling a racist or prejudicial word to me. Once again, you've got your guns of judgment firing wildly.


Selam

Oh so you think just because you are White if you were to support  things like black love, black poweretc it should not be read as racist? this like people who say :"I myself am black, but black people are such and such ...insert racist comment!" racism by anyone is racism!  OFC you would say he never uttered anything close to resembling a racist or prejudicial word to you.  there is a lot of filth in what he said but his racism speaks well of what he is, a racist bigot.


Dear sister, to affirm Blackness is not equivalent to disparaging other races. Was Abuna Yesehaq a racist because he titled his book, "The Ethiopian Tewahedo Church: An Integrally African Church"?


Selam
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« Reply #113 on: November 09, 2011, 06:28:40 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Distortion distortion! goodness! what shameful thing to do, Racism has no place in Ethiopian orthodox church, those who preach it are not part of it period they excommunicate themselves, our Dogma will not be compromised by JAH RASTAFARI BS . Its sickening to hear all this straw grasping attempt at rationalising what can never ever be rationalised and trying to divert it to political issues that's even more disgusting!
 your friend came and spewed filth in the name of the blessed bishop, and the Orthodox Faith, God forgive you guys for supporting such filth as orthodox.

What racism? Last I checked, I am White, and brother Ras Zacka has never uttered anything close to resembling a racist or prejudicial word to me. Once again, you've got your guns of judgment firing wildly.


Selam

Oh so you think just because you are White if you were to support  things like black love, black poweretc it should not be read as racist? this like people who say :"I myself am black, but black people are such and such ...insert racist comment!" racism by anyone is racism!  OFC you would say he never uttered anything close to resembling a racist or prejudicial word to you.  there is a lot of filth in what he said but his racism speaks well of what he is, a racist bigot.


Dear sister, to affirm Blackness is not equivalent to disparaging other races. Was Abuna Yesehaq a racist because he titled his book, "The Ethiopian Tewahedo Church: An Integrally African Church"?


Selam


is this once again your way of comparing of appels and oranges? what your friend said is a different animal we all know that !  again stop using the name of the blessed bishop to rationalise what can not be rationalised.
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« Reply #114 on: November 09, 2011, 07:06:24 PM »

greetings in that divine and most precious name of our lord and savior jesus christ!



 My interest is to Stress that veneration of Saints is authentically Orthodox.

a) yes we get that, its been the only theme of your diatribes.


b) and yet you still refuse to listen to folks explain what they mean when they talk and use terms? I would equally agree with you that Rastafarian peoples need to conform to Orthodox, but you are out of line when you condemn others as not being Orthodox even when they explain themselves to you while you refuse to listen.  You can construct all your own straw-man arguments you want, but wouldn't it be better to join our actual conversation instead of the one you seem to be having with yourself?

stay blessed,
habte selassie


oh do not worry I will not tire of denouncing heresy that wants to seep into the Ethiopian Orthodox Church,   Grin It seems to me , it is you who would not listen to anyone else other than your nationalist cult, in insisting that they keep their idolatry of the Emperor by denying the plain meaning of the term they have been using as a declaration of their blasphemous faith of saying that the emperor is the Christ Incarnate. that JAH is RASTAFARI the first! outrageous to even think of. And I will say this again no matter how much Rastafarian's who worship teferi mekonin say and  those who say they are converted but obviously see the Church as a nationalistic political arena and as such continue to bring the blasphemous phrase of JAH IS RASTAFARI I will be perpetually denounced by the Church and the Faithful Orthodox. I care for those who would renounce their former ways with all its unorthodox baggage, now with those I worship in Communion.  Which ever way you dice it, the fact remains the Emperor Hailesilase I , is dead, is not the king of the Church, is never party of those who engaged in the idolatry. and all those who love to say JAH RASTAFARI will answer to the True God.

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« Reply #115 on: November 09, 2011, 08:10:07 PM »

This thread has become so contentious, and I truly believe that much of the rancor is due to profound misunderstandings amongst us. I want to apologize if I have not communicated my thoughts clearly, and I also sincerely apologize for the un-Christian tone of many of my comments. We are all Orthodox brethren here, and Satan will do whatever he can to divide us. Since my comments have not seemed to further understanding and peace, I thought it best that I bow out of this discussion now and leave you with some inspirational words from His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I- words with which I certainly hope we can all agree:


“Sound and organized deliberation and action by men who may have neither family, nor religion, nor tribe, nor neighborhood in common, but who have, notwithstanding, been able to come together, to identify their common interests, and to agree upon effective programs to advance those interests... This is the new attitude which must be encouraged: the communal as opposed to the individual approach, the spirit of working together so that all may benefit.”  -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“How long will we, who are disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ, who are taught by the same Holy Bible, continue to remain divided among ourselves?”  -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“Had we been Christian people, had we been worthy of the name, peace would have reigned on all the face of the Earth. We would have risen to the level of the immortal angels who always glorify the Eternal God, and the peoples of the world would no longer have remained divided into hostile camps.”  
-H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“Above all, we must avoid the pitfalls of tribalism. If we are divided among ourselves, we open our doors to harmful consequences.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“He who would efface the sacred work of Almighty God, he who would abuse the mysteries of God’s creation and discriminate between man and man – whom God created equal – on the basis of color, race, or creed, calls down upon himself disaster and ruin.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“Until ignorance has been eradicated, understanding and sympathy cannot truly exist among men. Without tolerance and comprehension, peace will not be assured.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“The very diversity of the world’s people today constitutes one of mankind’s greatest resources. Each of us depends upon the other, can learn from the other, and in pursuing its own destiny will go further and succeed more quickly with others. Indeed, the free exchange of ideas is an essential condition to world understanding and world progress.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-



Selam
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« Reply #116 on: November 10, 2011, 05:16:17 AM »

This thread has become so contentious, and I truly believe that much of the rancor is due to profound misunderstandings amongst us. I want to apologize if I have not communicated my thoughts clearly, and I also sincerely apologize for the un-Christian tone of many of my comments. We are all Orthodox brethren here, and Satan will do whatever he can to divide us. Since my comments have not seemed to further understanding and peace, I thought it best that I bow out of this discussion now and leave you with some inspirational words from His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I- words with which I certainly hope we can all agree:


“Sound and organized deliberation and action by men who may have neither family, nor religion, nor tribe, nor neighborhood in common, but who have, notwithstanding, been able to come together, to identify their common interests, and to agree upon effective programs to advance those interests... This is the new attitude which must be encouraged: the communal as opposed to the individual approach, the spirit of working together so that all may benefit.”  -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“How long will we, who are disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ, who are taught by the same Holy Bible, continue to remain divided among ourselves?”  -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“Had we been Christian people, had we been worthy of the name, peace would have reigned on all the face of the Earth. We would have risen to the level of the immortal angels who always glorify the Eternal God, and the peoples of the world would no longer have remained divided into hostile camps.”  
-H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“Above all, we must avoid the pitfalls of tribalism. If we are divided among ourselves, we open our doors to harmful consequences.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“He who would efface the sacred work of Almighty God, he who would abuse the mysteries of God’s creation and discriminate between man and man – whom God created equal – on the basis of color, race, or creed, calls down upon himself disaster and ruin.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“Until ignorance has been eradicated, understanding and sympathy cannot truly exist among men. Without tolerance and comprehension, peace will not be assured.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“The very diversity of the world’s people today constitutes one of mankind’s greatest resources. Each of us depends upon the other, can learn from the other, and in pursuing its own destiny will go further and succeed more quickly with others. Indeed, the free exchange of ideas is an essential condition to world understanding and world progress.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-



Selam


Oh missed this one, well since we are qouting information why don't we add  something relevant to the Dogmatic point too, hmm let see sometimes wikipidea is the easiest source to go to, but I am sure others can search other sites as well and see Why it is so important to denounce the Rastafarian heresy of saying Jah Rastafarian, by those who outright worship him and by those who deny of worship and yet still go on using this blasphemous term. here is the Rastafarian prayer and the real meaning of JAH RASTAFARI :

"In public gatherings, Rastafari often say the following standard prayer, with several variants, comparable to the Lord's Prayer:
 "Princes and princesses shall come forth out of Egypt, Ethiopia now stretch forth her hands before Jah. O Thou God of Ethiopia, Thou God of Thy Divine Majesty, Thy Spirit come into our hearts, to dwell in the paths of righteousness. Lead and help I and I to forgive, that InI may be forgiven. Teach I and I Love and loyalty on earth as it is in Zion, Endow us with Thy wisemind, knowledge and Overstanding to do thy will, thy blessings to us, that the hungry might be fed, the sick nourished, the aged protected, the naked clothed and the infants cared for. Deliver I and I from the hands of our enemy, that I and I may prove fruitful in these Last Days, when our enemy have passed and decayed in the depths of the sea, in the depths of the earth, or in the belly of a beast. O give us a place in Thy Kingdom forever and ever, so we hail our majesty Haile Selassie I, Jehovah God, Rastafari, Almighty God, Rastafari, great and powerful God Jah, Rastafari. Who sitteth and reigneth in the heart of man and woman, hear us and bless us and sanctify us, and cause Thy loving Face to shine upon us thy children, that we may be saved, Selah."
When lighting a chalice, the following, shorter invocation is often used: "Glory be to the Father and to the Maker of Iration, as it were in the Iginning, is now an shall be foriva, world without end, SELAH."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari_movement

For this blasphemy no amount of rationalisation will make it orthodox.

as to the political conspiracy theory of the spies and assasinations against rastas in carabian and the US , poisoning of our blessed bishop by Ethiopians, the return of the earthly monarchy which will put the already self proclaimed royalties of rastafari into some kind of coveted royal court. the insinuation that had it not been for rastafarians in shashamene who smoke the ganja and are inspired to benevolent towards  Ethiopians who are  prostitutes and HIV infested ignorants ,that they all would have remained prostitutes and HIV infested degenerates, well those messianic monarchists who lust after an earthly kingdom can indeed continue to engage in their collective neurotic  fantasies while they do what amounts to political group masturbation of what is essentially a manifestation of human ego and lust for power,while detached from reality in the vision of the Returning Monarchy, while exclaiming JAH RASTAFARI , and go to a la la land of  Earthly Utopia. But None of that junk is the Orthodox Faith.

And those Ethiopians who do not commune for this reason or that, at least they are not in heretical doctrine, where there is the True Faith there is always hope of repentance and reconciliation. however those who will go back to their former ways and insist not to part with their idols will remain in the darkness of their blasphemous heresy. and woe to those who commune of the Holy Mysteries and go home to chant their idolatry.

The Church and the youth of the church are shepherded  by the true Shepherd Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, What the Holy Spirit seeks to do no one and nothing can stop. Those who teach the young must first themselves be in the Orthodox Faith and Holy Tradition. the acceptance of men does not equate to the acceptance of God. correct your ways abandon your idols then preach the faith and serve the Church. until then how many men give witness to what One does, the witness of the Spirit of Truth will condemn the hidden idols One harbors. and Our God is a Jealous God and a Consuming Fire!

there is a lot of political distraction that was attempted in here from the main blasphemy that was being addressed. the fact that even happend in order to prevent the abandoning of former idols and blasphemies speaks for itself.and I will not say anymore about it. beacause our conversation is that of a matter of DOGMA of the Orthodox Faith.

In Christ,
Hiwot.
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« Reply #117 on: November 10, 2011, 07:07:34 AM »

Because as you already know, "JAH" means God. And "Rastafari" means ruler or head of creation. Brother Habte Selassie may elaborate on this more if he wishes.

I understand you are not using the words 'Ras Tafari' to mean the Emperor when you say that phrase. However, the original use of the phrase is obviously intended to mean that Ras Tafari Makonen is Jah, which is blasphemy.

It is a bit like a former Muslim shouting "There is no god but God, and Muhammad is the Messenger of God!!" and saying that it's okay because the Arabic word Muhammad simply means 'praiseworthy', and therefore it's just a way for someone to express that the messengers of God are worthy of veneration, which is obviously an Orthodox concept.

I don't think one can legitimise use of phrases like that one simply by disassociating a name from a person by concentrating on it's etymology rather than its attribution. I know that you are not in any way an worshipper of man, nor have anything but the best intentions in this respect, but I think the use of such phrases, at least publicly, is dangerous and can blur the clear lines between truth and error.
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« Reply #118 on: November 10, 2011, 12:09:07 PM »

"..God gave unto David His servant grace before Him, and granted unto him that there should sit upon the throne of Godhead One of his seed in the flesh, from the Virgin, and should judge the living and the dead, and reward every man according to his work, One to whom praise is meet, our Lord Jesus Christ, for ever and ever, Amen. And He gave him one on the earth who should become king over the *Tabernacle of the Law, of the holy heavenly Zion*, that is to say, the King of Ethiopia. And as for those who reigned, who were not of Israel (Ie. of the line of Q'damawi Menelik), that was due to the transgression of the law and the commandment, whereat God was not pleased." Kibre Negest chapter 34 page 42.

*According to the Kibre Negest, within the "man-made Zion" there are the two Tables of the Covenant, a Gomor of gold containing a measure of the manna which came down from heaven, the rod of Aaron which sprouted after it had become withered though no one watered it with water (and one had broken it in two places and it became three rods being originally only one rod), and also the spiritual/original Zion. The Kibre Negest says chapter 17: "Now the heavenly and spiritual [original] within it (within the man-made Zion) is of divers colours, and the work thereof is marvellous, and it resembleth jasper, and the sparkling stone, and the topaz, and the hyacinthine stone (?), and the crystal, and the light, and it catcheth the eye by force, and it astonisheth the mind and stupefieth it with wonder; it was made by the mind of God and not by the hand of the artificer, man, but He Himself created it for the habitation of His glory. And it is a spiritual thing and is full of compassion; it is a heavenly thing and is full of light; it is a thing of freedom and a habitation of the Godhead, whose habitation is in heaven, and whose place of movement is on the earth, and it dwelleth with men and with the angels, a city of salvation for men, and for the Holy Spirit a habitation." Again in chapter 98: "And the heavenly, spiritual Zion, is above them (above the things that are within the man-made Zion), the Zion, the making and constitution of which are wonderful, of which God Himself is her Maker and Fashioner for the habitation of His glory... And the spiritual Zion is to be interpreted as the light of the Godhead. The spiritual Pearl which is contained in the Tabernacle is like a brilliant gem of great price, and he who hath acquired it holdeth it tightly in his hand, grasping it and hiding it in his hand, and whilst the gem is in his hand its owner goeth into the Tabernacle, and he is an inmate therein. And he who possesseth the Pearl is interpreted as the Word of God, Christ. And the spiritual Pearl which is grasped is to be interpreted as Mary, the Mother of the Light, through whom "’Akratos", the "Unmixed", assumed a body. In her He made a Temple for Himself of her pure body, and from her was born the Light of Light, God of God, Who was born of His own free will, and was not made by the hand of another, but He made a Temple for Himself through an incomprehensible wisdom which transcendeth the mind of man."

In addition I read: "...its use (Ie. the Kibre Negest) in religio-political propaganda by the leading Ethiopian churchman, Takla-Haimanot, who later became probably the first Itchege, proved to be highly effective in leading to the overthrow of the Zagwe Dynasty and the accession or restoration of the supposedly Solomonic Dynasty, under Emperor Yekuno Amlak (1270-1285)." Source: http://tezeta.net/5/social-structure-of-the-ethiopian-church-by-ephraim-isaac.

And I also read in a book on Ethiopia, a country guide called "Petit futé - Ethiopie", page 122, a summary of the story of King Lalibela. And in it it is said that King Lalibela, before his departure, asked that the power be given, not to his son, but to the representant of another dynasty, the Solomonic dynasty even, but they did not listen to him and they crowned his nephew after his departure. Indeed, King Lalibela was of the Zagwe dynasty, and the Zagwes were considered to be usurpers of the throne. But the case of St. Lalibela is a bit special, and Let those who do not know about how he ascended the throne read the story of his accession to the throne as told in the EOTC.

Now, by assuming these infos put above are factual: Is not the behavior of the current generation of Ethiopians a blatant compromise? They venerate St. Tekle Haymanot and St. Lalibela and in general they tell you they accept the Kibre Negest because their Church accepts it, but on the other hand support anti-monarchist parties that give no place to the Crown.

Let Meles move, King Solomon blood-line lives..






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« Reply #119 on: November 10, 2011, 01:04:51 PM »

Is the Kebra Negast considered a part of the EOTC canon now? I understand it has some religious significance (though I don't really know to what degree to those who aren't Rasta conspiracy theorists), but to use it to substantiate political/dynastic claims that have really nothing to do with the Orthodox faith...this bizarre, cultish behavior is really unbecoming. The Ethiopian Orthodox Church survives without the monarchy, and will always survive without the monarchy in any political situation because of its strong faith. All this political stuff is something else.
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« Reply #120 on: November 10, 2011, 01:30:24 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



there is a lot of political distraction that was attempted in here from the main blasphemy that was being addressed. the fact that even happend in order to prevent the abandoning of former idols and blasphemies speaks for itself.and I will not say anymore about it. beacause our conversation is that of a matter of DOGMA of the Orthodox Faith.

In Christ,
Hiwot.

Actually my kind sister, this thread was not started to proclaim the divinity of the Emperor, but to simply celebrate HIM legacy and history without the kinds of arguments that YOU started and YOU continue to have and which we of a Rastafari community have only been so polite as to continue trying to discuss these matters with you, so that you can learn about our culture and philosophies straight from the horse's mouth so to speak, and not from some silly Wikipedia.  We do not use Wikipedia to define your personal Ethiopian culture, identity, history, and experience, please don't try to use it to trump us when we are testifying to you.  GMK and I did not make up our interpretations of Rastafari, we are members of a community, that involves many people, and we learn mutually.  We are not making it up, we are participating.  

Rastafari is as diverse as Christianity, are all Christians Catholics? Are all Christians Orthodox? Do all Christians fully understand the Trinity, or the Real Presence, or the Virgin Mary, even within Orthodox? Aren't there Ethiopians, even in the Church, today who mistakenly support Immaculate Conception? Should we condemn to hell and deny their Orthodoxy because of a misunderstanding, or shouldn't we pray in the spirit of reconciliation, offering a fellowship, for its as Our Lord said, "He who is not against you, if for you."  So please be less scathing over your insistent misunderstanding of this issue.  Don't act like you don't know me and GMK, don't act like you don't read our posts and join our discussions, don't act like until this thread you agreed with our Orthodoxy, don't act like we are not Orthodox simply because you say so, that is for our priests do decide, and they disagree with you completely.  

Further, it is because our priests actually LISTEN to what we say, and again, as you said, we have the right to venerate non-canonized Saints in private, and no one here was saying, "It is Orthodox to publicly venerate HIM, it is required of ALL Ethiopian Orthodox to venerate Emperor" however you are dead-wrong when you tell us as individuals that we don't have this right to practice our devotion in private.  Private does not mean secret, it simply means that the Church does not celebrate the Saint in Liturgy, we members can still venerate them, this is because of the Church Triumphant and Communion of ALL SAINTS, those canonized are canonized for public, liturgical worship, but they are not necessarily elevated above or better than any other saint of God's kingdom, you and I included, which is precisely why we say in Christian to our brothers and sisters, "Pray for me." Is that a sin? Are we insinuating that all Christians are God when we ask them to pray for us?  If some of us here see HIM as a Saint, we have that right of the Holy Spirit, and if we insist that HIM is NOT GOD, how are you to tell us what we are saying HIM is, when that is simply not the case?

This was not a thread to worship the Emperor, this was a thread to praise the legacy, and you would have been better to offer nostalgic stories and testimonies as an Ethiopian women your experience with HIM, instead of simply needlessly arguing against your brethren and sistren who you seem to misunderstand.  This was a slightly political thread, because it was about the Emperor, who is a political figure. You misunderstood Ras Zacka's implications with the conspiracies and assassinations, the brother was testifying that Ethiopian clergy and people face an existential threat from the current Ethiopian regime, and we Rastafari people are a part of that risk, not because of our love for the Emperor, but simply because we are now part of the Ethiopian community. If you don't believe the stories, I can tell you from experience they are true, I fellowship with that parish in Dallas and there are many other dangerous and crazy stories, so that we here in exile in the US and abroad pray day and night for the safety of our leaders, our clergy, and our membership.  We Rastafari are part of the Community, HIM invited us, and if you don't like it that is your opinion, but I have never met Ethiopians as vociferously negative towards  Rastafari people in their Church as you have been on this thread, I can only pray that you are hiding behind the internet, and if we met in your parish face to face you wouldn't dare be so rude to a visiting member of our mutual Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #121 on: November 10, 2011, 01:48:58 PM »

So, do Rastafari worship HIM as the incarnation of Christ of not?

PP
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« Reply #122 on: November 10, 2011, 02:23:20 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

So, do Rastafari worship HIM as the incarnation of Christ of not?

PP
Yes some, indeed many, but clearly not all.  As I said before, Rastafari is a diverse community.  Are all Christians the same, or Muslims, or Jews? Are all Orthodox the same? What about Oriental and Eastern? And the Catholics? We have difference of views, histories, cultures, and opinions, but the commonality is Jesus Christ and the Holy Scriptures and a lot of mutual history.  The same is with Rastafari, some groups or mansions adhere to one philosophy, some to another.  Some folks see HIM as the return of the Incarnate Christ, the Second Coming, some Rastafari don't even believe in Jesus Christ or the Bible, and see HIM as God Almighty on HIM own.  So see HIM as the Father incarnate, and the Son being another, and the Holy Spirit being incarnate in the person of Marcus Mosiah Garvey.  However, what Rastafari communities like the EWF, the Twelve Tribes of Israel, and especially those Rastafari idren and sistern who are baptized, functioning, and active members of Ethiopian parishes, are "Orthodox Rastafari" and these profess the Emperor to be a Saint, not God.  That is what GMK and myself have been trying to elucidate and clarify, but some folks here insist on not listening to our heartical testimony, and instead insist on condemning us by their own straw-man fallacy accusations.  That is a shame to me, because it is all One Love, One God, One Aim, One Destiny, and why then the ism and schism?

I myself, and many many Rastafari folks DO NOT WORSHIP THE EMPEROR AS GOD in any way, shape, or form.  Rather, we see the Emperor as a Saint, bearing the Grace of God in a unique, kingly way.  HIM, like the other canonized kings and emperors of Christendom, is a King amongst Saints, and we here in Rastafari and Orthodox honor and revere HIM as such, this is our testimony, and it is surely grounded in Orthodox.  Those Rastafari who wrongfully worship the Emperor, we must pray for them, and offer them the spirit of fellowship and reconciliation that by God's Grace they see the True Light of Jesus Christ, which HIM tirelessly pointed towards, and gave HIM entire legacy on behalf there of.  

I will never deny being a Rastafari brother, and folks could never deny my Orthodox, only by their own misconceptions.  We in the Orthodox Rastafari have our parishes, have our priests, have married and and been adopted by the Ethiopian community at large, so realistically, some folks should simply


stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #123 on: November 10, 2011, 02:34:28 PM »

Is the Kebra Negast considered a part of the EOTC canon now? I understand it has some religious significance (though I don't really know to what degree to those who aren't Rasta conspiracy theorists), but to use it to substantiate political/dynastic claims that have really nothing to do with the Orthodox faith...this bizarre, cultish behavior is really unbecoming. The Ethiopian Orthodox Church survives without the monarchy, and will always survive without the monarchy in any political situation because of its strong faith. All this political stuff is something else.

Well, it's very unfortunate that you did not born in the time of St. Tekle Haymanot or St. Lalibela, or in the time of those who compiled the Kibre Negest, you would have been able to rebuke them for this matter, huh?

Why do you reject monarchy and the rule of the Solomonic dynasty? Ethiopia being a kingdom, a monarchy, does not prevent the voice of the people to work outside of the private sphere of limited power conferred to a Sovereign from his enthronement until his departure. There can be democracy in a monarchy. Mentality has changed and so I doubt if monarchy is restored it will be as in the time of Tewodros for example. Why don't you want to welcome constitutional monarchy: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/constitutional+monarchy? Hey Ethiopians! Stop playing the "rebels".. You all behave like these stiff-naked Jews..



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« Reply #124 on: November 10, 2011, 02:50:04 PM »

giv thanks mi beloved bredrines who understand wat i man talking about.i will type in lower case as its a sin to use the machine in higher case for one i hav poor eyesight and two i am not expert typist ,but because his majesty and abba yesehaq inspired i to study education i type with one finger.not like you educated and pious ones who are experts who can cut n copy...and i hope am not denounced on yr forun because orthodoxy in yr eyes means to spell properly and use code of text preparation.JAH LIVES AND ALL WEAK HEART MUST TREMBLE!!!..our only enemy is satan.yes you gonna tired to see we faces orthodox ppl.a new vine has been engrafted..OUR LORD THE DREADED CHRISTOS has done a new thing in these last days.gone are the days of rich empires embracing orthodoxy ,but here is the days when human bengs denied birthrights are called ,chosen,and precious in the eyes of their CREATOR.we been robbed of language ,culture n tradition an any christian who deny our identity cry must get a hearttransplant of LOVE.AL churches should give therapy and embrace rastas and console them because they recognise their plight of 500 yrs of rape,torture,and greed by western civilations which our prophet and national marcus garvey came in the spirit of john the baptist did and same way he cursed the emperor as john cursed christ.its educational and some learnt elder can giv the name of the parrallels of the incident..abuna yesehaq did explain it.this draws the drive to study our bibles again and learn about CHRISTOS,and more reality to our understanding is added for our salvation.am happy no woman can be priests so i can see them wrecking the church of CHRISTOS WITH BAD TEMPER.so where is the LOVE OF GOD.we treat each other as scribes and pharisees at times and avoid the weightier matter.LOVE FOR ALL MANKIND IS IT.ONE BLACK LOVE IS IT.love is like black to me ,because it can blot out wrongs.black is beautiful.i think cCHRIST AND ST MARY is black..not european.looking just like my dad.abuna yesehaq teach this too..because we were battered and bruised,robbed and peeled,to the shame of egypt and ethiopia our expectation,therefore we wetre carried off naked and barefeet,with our bottocks uncovered,both men n women n children t because of the shame of ethiopia...isiah chapter 20.....we need a big dialogue.
leaders cannot deny that.a new vine is engrafted in the olive tree,its rasta orthodox...its all races of the earth,who was rejected and seeking identity.ABUNA YESEHAQ IS EXPERT IN THIS.HIS OWN PPL SELL HIM OUT.ONLY RASTAFARIANS FED HIM AND PAY HIS RENT.ETHIOPIAND DENIED HIM A SALARY.DO HIWOT EVER ASK ABBA IF HE WAS HUNGRY?I KNO IT.SHE IS ETHNIC TOO.I HOPE NOT.WE MUST STRIVE TO UNITE AGAINST satan OUR ENEMY ,AND STOP PUTTING CONDEMNATION ON EACH OTHER TO PROVE A POINT.SO WHO GONNA TEACH THESE BEAUTIFUL RASTAS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD?the true christians with tolerance n good will.study about a man before yu judge him.Habte was only exaulting a forgotten public holyday forgotten in ethiopia...thanks brother..is haile selassie really in that tomb?because we heard its a mock funeral abuna paulos that jackal planned to cover his illegal selection.after 17 yrs....hmmmm..it looks fishy...yu can fool some ppl sometimes,but yu cannot fool all the people all the while..The monarchy carried christianity to pagan ethiopians.it must be restored.it makes us proud in the diaspora because we had nothing,so it was beginning of our integrity to show soladarity to christian monarchy as english monarchy put is in jail for mentioning ETHIOPIAN MONARCHY DAYS GONE BY.SEE all of you here dont know about jamaica and port royal history...WE ARE THE SURVIVORS.WE MEAN GOOD TO ETHIOPIA AND GOD FEARERS...LOL..OR GOD TAFARIS!!..LOLL.if rasta is stone that the builders refuse..it will become head corner stone.rastas are now ordained clergy and fast and pray.who r you to deny a mans faith.RASTAFARI IIS A WAY OF LIFE.NOT RELIGION OR FAITH.DONT MIX IT.ethiopian worship exist from before abraham,but after pattern of NOAH.IT just enter into the hearts of man to glorify a THE LORD SO IF ITS NOT A GOD THING IT WILL SURELY FADE AWAY GAMALIEL SAID SO IF ORTHODOX RASTA IS NOT AUTHENTIC..LEAVE IT TO GOD.i see a special sentimental LOVING relationship,which is very intimate between rastafari and ethiopia,and its amazing.and some haters are jealous..but the union will perfect a people prepared for the lord which will bring the present unto THE LORD OF ZION..isiah ch 18....MORE LOVE AND MORE POWERS UNTO ALL WHO LOVE AND HATE I AND THE I ,IN YOU!!!HAILE BLESSED LOVE COVER THE EARTH AS WATER COVER THE SEA.NO OFFENCE AGAINST NO ONE,SO YR MY BLOOD N CHRIST,AND NO WEAPON FORMED AGAINST US SHALL PROSPER.LET JAH ARISE!!
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« Reply #125 on: November 10, 2011, 03:00:52 PM »

giv thanks mi beloved bredrines who understand wat i man talking about.i will type in lower case as its a sin to use the machine in higher case for one i hav poor eyesight and two i am not expert typist ,but because his majesty and abba yesehaq inspired i to study education i type with one finger.not like you educated and pious ones who are experts who can cut n copy...and i hope am not denounced on yr forun because orthodoxy in yr eyes means to spell properly and use code of text preparation.JAH LIVES AND ALL WEAK HEART MUST TREMBLE!!!..our only enemy is satan.yes you gonna tired to see we faces orthodox ppl.a new vine has been engrafted..OUR LORD THE DREADED CHRISTOS has done a new thing in these last days.gone are the days of rich empires embracing orthodoxy ,but here is the days when human bengs denied birthrights are called ,chosen,and precious in the eyes of their CREATOR.we been robbed of language ,culture n tradition an any christian who deny our identity cry must get a hearttransplant of LOVE.AL churches should give therapy and embrace rastas and console them because they recognise their plight of 500 yrs of rape,torture,and greed by western civilations which our prophet and national marcus garvey came in the spirit of john the baptist did and same way he cursed the emperor as john cursed christ.its educational and some learnt elder can giv the name of the parrallels of the incident..abuna yesehaq did explain it.this draws the drive to study our bibles again and learn about CHRISTOS,and more reality to our understanding is added for our salvation.am happy no woman can be priests so i can see them wrecking the church of CHRISTOS WITH BAD TEMPER.so where is the LOVE OF GOD.we treat each other as scribes and pharisees at times and avoid the weightier matter.LOVE FOR ALL MANKIND IS IT.ONE BLACK LOVE IS IT.love is like black to me ,because it can blot out wrongs.black is beautiful.i think cCHRIST AND ST MARY is black..not european.looking just like my dad.abuna yesehaq teach this too..because we were battered and bruised,robbed and peeled,to the shame of egypt and ethiopia our expectation,therefore we wetre carried off naked and barefeet,with our bottocks uncovered,both men n women n children t because of the shame of ethiopia...isiah chapter 20.....we need a big dialogue.
leaders cannot deny that.a new vine is engrafted in the olive tree,its rasta orthodox...its all races of the earth,who was rejected and seeking identity.ABUNA YESEHAQ IS EXPERT IN THIS.HIS OWN PPL SELL HIM OUT.ONLY RASTAFARIANS FED HIM AND PAY HIS RENT.ETHIOPIAND DENIED HIM A SALARY.DO HIWOT EVER ASK ABBA IF HE WAS HUNGRY?I KNO IT.SHE IS ETHNIC TOO.I HOPE NOT.WE MUST STRIVE TO UNITE AGAINST satan OUR ENEMY ,AND STOP PUTTING CONDEMNATION ON EACH OTHER TO PROVE A POINT.SO WHO GONNA TEACH THESE BEAUTIFUL RASTAS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD?the true christians with tolerance n good will.study about a man before yu judge him.Habte was only exaulting a forgotten public holyday forgotten in ethiopia...thanks brother..is haile selassie really in that tomb?because we heard its a mock funeral abuna paulos that jackal planned to cover his illegal selection.after 17 yrs....hmmmm..it looks fishy...yu can fool some ppl sometimes,but yu cannot fool all the people all the while..The monarchy carried christianity to pagan ethiopians.it must be restored.it makes us proud in the diaspora because we had nothing,so it was beginning of our integrity to show soladarity to christian monarchy as english monarchy put is in jail for mentioning ETHIOPIAN MONARCHY DAYS GONE BY.SEE all of you here dont know about jamaica and port royal history...WE ARE THE SURVIVORS.WE MEAN GOOD TO ETHIOPIA AND GOD FEARERS...LOL..OR GOD TAFARIS!!..LOLL.if rasta is stone that the builders refuse..it will become head corner stone.rastas are now ordained clergy and fast and pray.who r you to deny a mans faith.RASTAFARI IIS A WAY OF LIFE.NOT RELIGION OR FAITH.DONT MIX IT.ethiopian worship exist from before abraham,but after pattern of NOAH.IT just enter into the hearts of man to glorify a THE LORD SO IF ITS NOT A GOD THING IT WILL SURELY FADE AWAY GAMALIEL SAID SO IF ORTHODOX RASTA IS NOT AUTHENTIC..LEAVE IT TO GOD.i see a special sentimental LOVING relationship,which is very intimate between rastafari and ethiopia,and its amazing.and some haters are jealous..but the union will perfect a people prepared for the lord which will bring the present unto THE LORD OF ZION..isiah ch 18....MORE LOVE AND MORE POWERS UNTO ALL WHO LOVE AND HATE I AND THE I ,IN YOU!!!HAILE BLESSED LOVE COVER THE EARTH AS WATER COVER THE SEA.NO OFFENCE AGAINST NO ONE,SO YR MY BLOOD N CHRIST,AND NO WEAPON FORMED AGAINST US SHALL PROSPER.LET JAH ARISE!!


Do Ethiopian Orthodox believe this, too?

FWIW, I don't think Christ was "european," either.  He was a Middle Eastern Jew.
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« Reply #126 on: November 10, 2011, 03:41:14 PM »

        African Diaspora Tourism Explorer Press Release
 
                                         

                                             

 

 

  UNESCO's Call for  Participation

     

     The United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural  Organization (UNESCO) is actively seeking designs for their new project that will be a permanent memorial to honor the victims of slavery and the trans-Atlantic slave trade. Artists, designers, sculptors and other visual arts professionals are invited to submit proposals for this once in a lifetime opportunity. Read More             

 

 

More African Diaspora Tourism News

 

* The New, New Richmond- The capital of Virginia is a leader in recognizing the heritage and contributions of people of Africa descent with special tributes located all over the city.  Read More

 

* Africa in South America: Colombia's San Basilio de Palenque Village - Read a travel writers take on the people of this traditional Africa-like village who live off the land like their early ancesters. Read More 

 

* Nigerian Fashion Week Goes All Green - Popular fashion show in Nigeria supports sustainability, and environmental and climate awareness this year with designer's 'Going Green Collection.' Read More

 

* 'Munched' - Hit production by Kim Porter about a woman convicted of an unthinkable crime opened to a full house on first run at the Manhatten Theatre Source in New York.  Read More

       
 
THE RASTAFARIANS ARE THE BEST PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS ONE BY UNESCO AND THEREFOR MAKING THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE.WHAT YALL WANNA SUGGESTING DOING WITH THEM...PUTTING THEM IN DUMP TRUCKS AND HEAD FOR THE DUMP WITH FUEL N MATCHES AS JAMAICAN GOVERNMENTS USED TO DO BEFORE HAILESELASSIE SAW,AND INTERVENED AND SENT ABUNE YESEHAQ ,SINGLE HANHEDLY..?LISTEN LIVES ARE AT STEAK HERE AND YOU ALL CAN LEARN SOME THING ,JUST AS I LEARN FR HIWOT THAT THE FEAR OF GOD IS BEGINNING OF WISDOM.RAsta loves it because it mention their first geez or amharic word learnt...tafari....imagine chinese indentured labourers getting to embrace one word od mandarin chinese after going thru hell and now becoming independent n free.they gonna cherish that word....wont you too if in such a case.put yr self in rasta shoes and feel it wit yr eyes closed....and rasta will learn in future n dominate orthodoxy as abba yesehaq said.because rastafari is original orthodox theory ,resisting the colonial system and yoke of oppression ...especially against the tamper ing of the bible translation.the queen of england head of state of jamaica as few knows,made laws to imprison those elders in 1920 s to 1070s because they read apocrypha.these elders were members of fraternal orders like freemasons ets who were early elders in the movement to resist england oppressive politics against africans.rastafari started out as a black supremecist movement,but as foreigners and more conformist joined up ,spirituality was stressed.its under transition.and is very beautiful with contributions to art,literature,poetry,music and spiritua;ity,to make we a real comprehensive and cohisive,domicile people in the caribbean and the world.everything cncerning his majesty haile selassie is revered and our ppl dont even know egypt is africa...i mean our parents who do not see african importance because it was bred out of them.Through CHRISTOS civilizations are being transformed,not thru rich nations potential ,but through the commune lives of seekers of the lost sheep of israel.be our brothers keeper.how many of you would invite a rasta for dinner.?i visit greek orthodox church and was despised......in palm sunday...no introduction....no well wishing....no invitation for dinner,although i eat hearbs with a saltless diet.WE R THE SALT OF THE EARTH AS CHRISTOS CHILDREN.LET US HUMBLE OUR SELVES AND STOP PUT FILTH UPON EACH OTHERVIEWS..Get angry and sin not...I WISH ALL ON THIS FORUM NUFF PEACE AND LOVE IN THEIR LIVES.BLESS UP EVERYONE IN THE NAME OF J....JAHOVAH......A...AMMANUEL.....H.....THE HOLY SPIRIT...HOLY TRINITY BLESS ALL AS ONE FAMILY.
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« Reply #127 on: November 10, 2011, 03:53:34 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

giv thanks mi beloved bredrines who understand wat i man talking about.i will type in lower case as its a sin to use the machine in higher case for one i hav poor eyesight and two i am not expert typist ,but because his majesty and abba yesehaq inspired i to study education i type with one finger.not like you educated and pious ones who are experts who can cut n copy...and i hope am not denounced on yr forun because orthodoxy in yr eyes means to spell properly and use code of text preparation.

heartica big up my brotha, I tried to explain to Is here that it was rude for them to disregard the crucial substance of your post out of grammatical concerns, as that is not Orthodox, much of Orthodox have actually been illiterate!

Quote
,but here is the days when human bengs denied birthrights are called ,chosen,and precious in the eyes of their CREATOR.we been robbed of language ,culture n tradition an any christian who deny our identity cry must get a hearttransplant of LOVE.AL churches should give therapy and embrace rastas and console them because they recognise their plight of 500 yrs of rape,torture,and greed by western civilations which our prophet and national marcus garvey came in the spirit of john the baptist did and same way he cursed the emperor as john cursed christ.its educational and some learnt elder can giv the name of the parrallels of the incident..abuna yesehaq did explain it.this draws the drive to study our bibles again and learn about CHRISTOS,and more reality to our understanding is added for our salvation.

EXACTLY! God bless the soul and memory of our beloved Abune Yesehaq, who loved the Rastafari people out of sincerity, and was indeed a noble and caring father to we the Rastafari lost tribe of Ethiopia.  HIM intended to literally graft Rastafari folks into the Ethiopian Empire as a new tribal group, a new ethnic identity within the State having a territory of their own in Shashamene.  The Chuch was commissioned to indoctrinate Rastafari into the Faith and Culture, just as the Church has been sent to the South, East, and West of Ethiopia for the same purpose of converting non-Christian Ethiopia and bringing them into the fold of our Mother the Church.
Quote
.we need a big dialogue. leaders cannot deny that.a new vine is engrafted in the olive tree,its rasta orthodox...its all races of the earth,who was rejected and seeking identity.ABUNA YESEHAQ IS EXPERT IN THIS.HIS OWN PPL SELL HIM OUT.ONLY RASTAFARIANS FED HIM AND PAY HIS RENT.ETHIOPIAND DENIED HIM A SALARY.DO HIWOT EVER ASK ABBA IF HE WAS HUNGRY?I KNO IT.SHE IS ETHNIC TOO.I HOPE NOT.WE MUST STRIVE TO UNITE AGAINST satan OUR ENEMY ,AND STOP PUTTING CONDEMNATION ON EACH OTHER TO PROVE A POINT.SO WHO GONNA TEACH THESE BEAUTIFUL RASTAS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD?the true christians with tolerance n good will.study about a man before yu judge him.Habte was only exaulting a forgotten public holyday forgotten in ethiopia...thanks brother..

Amen Amen.  Where were all those careless Ethiopians when our fathers were in neglect? Rastafari have been crucial founding members of many Ethiopian parishes across the Western world, and we have always been piously involved with our clergy and Ethiopian expatriate families, because we in Rastafari were deeply experienced with the viciousness of oppression and victimization before the Derg showed up, and we helped Ethiopians and they helped us mutually as we both entered into this brave new world together, as brothers and sisters under One GOd.

Quote
if rasta is stone that the builders refuse..it will become head corner stone.rastas are now ordained clergy and fast and pray.who r you to deny a mans faith.RASTAFARI IIS A WAY OF LIFE.NOT RELIGION OR FAITH.DONT MIX IT.ethiopian worship exist from before abraham,but after pattern of NOAH.IT just enter into the hearts of man to glorify a THE LORD SO IF ITS NOT A GOD THING IT WILL SURELY FADE AWAY GAMALIEL SAID SO IF ORTHODOX RASTA IS NOT AUTHENTIC..LEAVE IT TO GOD.i see a special sentimental LOVING relationship,which is very intimate between rastafari and ethiopia,and its amazing.and some haters are jealous..




http://eotcarchdiocesecaribbeanandlatinamerica.org/trinidadandtobago/clergytrinidadtobago.html

Amen Amen! Many of the Rastafari community have become not only members of the EOTC, but indeed clergy as Deacons and Priests, just as Janhoy envisioned in specifically sending a Bishopric to the Caribbean in the first place.  There had been priests and a consecrated altar in Trinidad since as early as 1956, however a Bishop who could ordain other clergy and deacons was not sent until personal orders of HIM in 1970, and that Bishop was His Holiness Abune Yesehaq, the self-titled "Rasta Bishop" who loved our community so much, and we love his memory and legacy beyond words!

Lets pray that these careless Ethiopian haters who wrongfully abuse we Rastafari, when our Church and the majority of the Ethiopian community have so actively embraced us, that God transplant Love into their hearts as you suggested.  Let us pray that it be as Apostle Paul explained in Romans 11, that in being jealous these Ethiopians are provoked to action.  When they see Rastafari eating at the Bishop's table, Communing regularly, teaching their children in their schools, leading within the Ethiopian community, perhaps they will be sparked to jealousy to themselves pick up the slack, pick up the pace, and stop hatin and get active.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #128 on: November 10, 2011, 03:59:19 PM »

rastafari is original orthodox theory [. . .] i visit greek orthodox church and was despised......in palm sunday...no introduction....no well wishing....no invitation for dinner,although i eat hearbs with a saltless diet.

RLY? Can we go private now?

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« Reply #129 on: November 10, 2011, 04:02:04 PM »

rastafari is original orthodox theory [. . .] i visit greek orthodox church and was despised......in palm sunday...no introduction....no well wishing....no invitation for dinner,although i eat hearbs with a saltless diet.

RLY? Can we go private now?


Angry Why did you point out that line?  I totally overlooked that.

Still reeling over love being black. Didn't know it was a color.
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« Reply #130 on: November 10, 2011, 04:04:10 PM »

And really, HS and GMK, there is nothing crazypants about those posts? You are just going to keep saying "Sing it, my brother!" because he is one of your Rastafarian people?

Because there are like several things in that post that are absolutely incompatible with Orthodoxy, or Christianity in general.
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« Reply #131 on: November 10, 2011, 04:06:15 PM »

giv thanks mi beloved bredrines who understand wat i man talking about.i will type in lower case as its a sin to use the machine in higher case for one i hav poor eyesight and two i am not expert typist ,but because his majesty and abba yesehaq inspired i to study education i type with one finger.not like you educated and pious ones who are experts who can cut n copy...and i hope am not denounced on yr forun because orthodoxy in yr eyes means to spell properly and use code of text preparation.JAH LIVES AND ALL WEAK HEART MUST TREMBLE!!!..our only enemy is satan.yes you gonna tired to see we faces orthodox ppl.a new vine has been engrafted..OUR LORD THE DREADED CHRISTOS has done a new thing in these last days.gone are the days of rich empires embracing orthodoxy ,but here is the days when human bengs denied birthrights are called ,chosen,and precious in the eyes of their CREATOR.we been robbed of language ,culture n tradition an any christian who deny our identity cry must get a hearttransplant of LOVE.AL churches should give therapy and embrace rastas and console them because they recognise their plight of 500 yrs of rape,torture,and greed by western civilations which our prophet and national marcus garvey came in the spirit of john the baptist did and same way he cursed the emperor as john cursed christ.its educational and some learnt elder can giv the name of the parrallels of the incident..abuna yesehaq did explain it.this draws the drive to study our bibles again and learn about CHRISTOS,and more reality to our understanding is added for our salvation.am happy no woman can be priests so i can see them wrecking the church of CHRISTOS WITH BAD TEMPER.so where is the LOVE OF GOD.we treat each other as scribes and pharisees at times and avoid the weightier matter.LOVE FOR ALL MANKIND IS IT.ONE BLACK LOVE IS IT.love is like black to me ,because it can blot out wrongs.black is beautiful.i think cCHRIST AND ST MARY is black..not european.looking just like my dad.abuna yesehaq teach this too..because we were battered and bruised,robbed and peeled,to the shame of egypt and ethiopia our expectation,therefore we wetre carried off naked and barefeet,with our bottocks uncovered,both men n women n children t because of the shame of ethiopia...isiah chapter 20.....we need a big dialogue.
leaders cannot deny that.a new vine is engrafted in the olive tree,its rasta orthodox...its all races of the earth,who was rejected and seeking identity.ABUNA YESEHAQ IS EXPERT IN THIS.HIS OWN PPL SELL HIM OUT.ONLY RASTAFARIANS FED HIM AND PAY HIS RENT.ETHIOPIAND DENIED HIM A SALARY.DO HIWOT EVER ASK ABBA IF HE WAS HUNGRY?I KNO IT.SHE IS ETHNIC TOO.I HOPE NOT.WE MUST STRIVE TO UNITE AGAINST satan OUR ENEMY ,AND STOP PUTTING CONDEMNATION ON EACH OTHER TO PROVE A POINT.SO WHO GONNA TEACH THESE BEAUTIFUL RASTAS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD?the true christians with tolerance n good will.study about a man before yu judge him.Habte was only exaulting a forgotten public holyday forgotten in ethiopia...thanks brother..is haile selassie really in that tomb?because we heard its a mock funeral abuna paulos that jackal planned to cover his illegal selection.after 17 yrs....hmmmm..it looks fishy...yu can fool some ppl sometimes,but yu cannot fool all the people all the while..The monarchy carried christianity to pagan ethiopians.it must be restored.it makes us proud in the diaspora because we had nothing,so it was beginning of our integrity to show soladarity to christian monarchy as english monarchy put is in jail for mentioning ETHIOPIAN MONARCHY DAYS GONE BY.SEE all of you here dont know about jamaica and port royal history...WE ARE THE SURVIVORS.WE MEAN GOOD TO ETHIOPIA AND GOD FEARERS...LOL..OR GOD TAFARIS!!..LOLL.if rasta is stone that the builders refuse..it will become head corner stone.rastas are now ordained clergy and fast and pray.who r you to deny a mans faith.RASTAFARI IIS A WAY OF LIFE.NOT RELIGION OR FAITH.DONT MIX IT.ethiopian worship exist from before abraham,but after pattern of NOAH.IT just enter into the hearts of man to glorify a THE LORD SO IF ITS NOT A GOD THING IT WILL SURELY FADE AWAY GAMALIEL SAID SO IF ORTHODOX RASTA IS NOT AUTHENTIC..LEAVE IT TO GOD.i see a special sentimental LOVING relationship,which is very intimate between rastafari and ethiopia,and its amazing.and some haters are jealous..but the union will perfect a people prepared for the lord which will bring the present unto THE LORD OF ZION..isiah ch 18....MORE LOVE AND MORE POWERS UNTO ALL WHO LOVE AND HATE I AND THE I ,IN YOU!!!HAILE BLESSED LOVE COVER THE EARTH AS WATER COVER THE SEA.NO OFFENCE AGAINST NO ONE,SO YR MY BLOOD N CHRIST,AND NO WEAPON FORMED AGAINST US SHALL PROSPER.LET JAH ARISE!!


« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 04:06:53 PM by NicholasMyra » Logged

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« Reply #132 on: November 10, 2011, 04:07:00 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

giv thanks mi beloved bredrines who understand wat i man talking about.i will type in lower case as its a sin to use the machine in higher case for one i hav poor eyesight and two i am not expert typist ,but because his majesty and abba yesehaq inspired i to study education i type with one finger.not like you educated and pious ones who are experts who can cut n copy...and i hope am not denounced on yr forun because orthodoxy in yr eyes means to spell properly and use code of text preparation.

heartica big up my brotha, I tried to explain to Is here that it was rude for them to disregard the crucial substance of your post out of grammatical concerns, as that is not Orthodox, much of Orthodox have actually been illiterate!

Quote
,but here is the days when human bengs denied birthrights are called ,chosen,and precious in the eyes of their CREATOR.we been robbed of language ,culture n tradition an any christian who deny our identity cry must get a hearttransplant of LOVE.AL churches should give therapy and embrace rastas and console them because they recognise their plight of 500 yrs of rape,torture,and greed by western civilations which our prophet and national marcus garvey came in the spirit of john the baptist did and same way he cursed the emperor as john cursed christ.its educational and some learnt elder can giv the name of the parrallels of the incident..abuna yesehaq did explain it.this draws the drive to study our bibles again and learn about CHRISTOS,and more reality to our understanding is added for our salvation.

EXACTLY! God bless the soul and memory of our beloved Abune Yesehaq, who loved the Rastafari people out of sincerity, and was indeed a noble and caring father to we the Rastafari lost tribe of Ethiopia.  HIM intended to literally graft Rastafari folks into the Ethiopian Empire as a new tribal group, a new ethnic identity within the State having a territory of their own in Shashamene.  The Chuch was commissioned to indoctrinate Rastafari into the Faith and Culture, just as the Church has been sent to the South, East, and West of Ethiopia for the same purpose of converting non-Christian Ethiopia and bringing them into the fold of our Mother the Church.
Quote
.we need a big dialogue. leaders cannot deny that.a new vine is engrafted in the olive tree,its rasta orthodox...its all races of the earth,who was rejected and seeking identity.ABUNA YESEHAQ IS EXPERT IN THIS.HIS OWN PPL SELL HIM OUT.ONLY RASTAFARIANS FED HIM AND PAY HIS RENT.ETHIOPIAND DENIED HIM A SALARY.DO HIWOT EVER ASK ABBA IF HE WAS HUNGRY?I KNO IT.SHE IS ETHNIC TOO.I HOPE NOT.WE MUST STRIVE TO UNITE AGAINST satan OUR ENEMY ,AND STOP PUTTING CONDEMNATION ON EACH OTHER TO PROVE A POINT.SO WHO GONNA TEACH THESE BEAUTIFUL RASTAS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD?the true christians with tolerance n good will.study about a man before yu judge him.Habte was only exaulting a forgotten public holyday forgotten in ethiopia...thanks brother..

Amen Amen.  Where were all those careless Ethiopians when our fathers were in neglect? Rastafari have been crucial founding members of many Ethiopian parishes across the Western world, and we have always been piously involved with our clergy and Ethiopian expatriate families, because we in Rastafari were deeply experienced with the viciousness of oppression and victimization before the Derg showed up, and we helped Ethiopians and they helped us mutually as we both entered into this brave new world together, as brothers and sisters under One GOd.

Quote
if rasta is stone that the builders refuse..it will become head corner stone.rastas are now ordained clergy and fast and pray.who r you to deny a mans faith.RASTAFARI IIS A WAY OF LIFE.NOT RELIGION OR FAITH.DONT MIX IT.ethiopian worship exist from before abraham,but after pattern of NOAH.IT just enter into the hearts of man to glorify a THE LORD SO IF ITS NOT A GOD THING IT WILL SURELY FADE AWAY GAMALIEL SAID SO IF ORTHODOX RASTA IS NOT AUTHENTIC..LEAVE IT TO GOD.i see a special sentimental LOVING relationship,which is very intimate between rastafari and ethiopia,and its amazing.and some haters are jealous..




http://eotcarchdiocesecaribbeanandlatinamerica.org/trinidadandtobago/clergytrinidadtobago.html

Amen Amen! Many of the Rastafari community have become not only members of the EOTC, but indeed clergy as Deacons and Priests, just as Janhoy envisioned in specifically sending a Bishopric to the Caribbean in the first place.  There had been priests and a consecrated altar in Trinidad since as early as 1956, however a Bishop who could ordain other clergy and deacons was not sent until personal orders of HIM in 1970, and that Bishop was His Holiness Abune Yesehaq, the self-titled "Rasta Bishop" who loved our community so much, and we love his memory and legacy beyond words!

Lets pray that these careless Ethiopian haters who wrongfully abuse we Rastafari, when our Church and the majority of the Ethiopian community have so actively embraced us, that God transplant Love into their hearts as you suggested.  Let us pray that it be as Apostle Paul explained in Romans 11, that in being jealous these Ethiopians are provoked to action.  When they see Rastafari eating at the Bishop's table, Communing regularly, teaching their children in their schools, leading within the Ethiopian community, perhaps they will be sparked to jealousy to themselves pick up the slack, pick up the pace, and stop hatin and get active.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

The Church of Scientology is more coherent sociological group even if you include folks who only read Dianetics than the so-called "Rastafarian Community".

Sorry Habte, some of us have actually lived in the real world around and "among" Rastas. And you can always say that everyone else's experiences are outliers except yours and Gebre's, but really that dog don't hunt.

You are in a situation in which you literally beg the question. You get to trumpet what you define "Rastafarianism" and everything outside it is some misunderstanding or perversion, etc.

Put the trumpet down. You yell your message so loud no one can hear it except the hand clappers already stepping to your song.

 
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« Reply #133 on: November 10, 2011, 04:08:32 PM »

if rasta is stone that the builders refuse..it will become head corner stone.
I wouldn't hold my breath.
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« Reply #134 on: November 10, 2011, 04:09:43 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

rastafari is original orthodox theory [. . .] i visit greek orthodox church and was despised......in palm sunday...no introduction....no well wishing....no invitation for dinner,although i eat hearbs with a saltless diet.

RLY? Can we go private now?


Angry Why did you point out that line?  I totally overlooked that.

Still reeling over love being black. Didn't know it was a color.

Folks are arguing with me about their misinterpretations about my discussing some Serbian controversies, and yet, black folks can't have their own sense of pride, nationalism, and cultural integrity? Talk about a double-standard!

In Rastafari black is beautiful, period.  If folks are offended with that statement, they need to look in the mirror and reflect and why that threatens them in anyway, nobody said here "ONLY black is beautiful" but rather stated the obvious fact that indeed, "black is beautiful" which is self-explanatory to those who know this Smiley

Rastafari is not saying folks have to be black to be Christian, Rastafari is not saying Orthodox is a racial things, Rastafari is saying that black folks have been been disregarded, disrespected, and dismissed for centuries, and through Rastafari and the Orthodox a new sense of pride, self-actualization, and cultural integrity has bee rejunivated in the black communities.  Folks should cherish this growth, not be threatened by it.  Its not a battle or a struggle, its not black against the world, but it has been seeming to be the world against black, and that is why blackness must be continually reaffirmed in the positive light of racial pride.  Its not racism, its self-esteem.   This is another gift of the Rastafari people to Ethiopia, as honestly many Ethiopians to this day don't realize they are black, and HIM was one of the first Ethiopian Emperors to turn Westward towards Black Africa away from the traditional Abyssinian ties with the Semitic East.  HIM knew the rest of the world though of Ethiopians as being black, HIM saw it was time for Ethiopians to embrace their blackness as well, hence HIM pan-African and black nationalist outreach, both across Africa and the Caribbean.


stay blessed,
habte selassie

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
Tags: HIM Haile Selassie 
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