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Author Topic: Blessings on this 81st Anniversary of the Coronation of HIM Haile Selassie I  (Read 15277 times) Average Rating: 0
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dzheremi
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« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2011, 01:59:14 PM »

I'm sorry, Gebre, if it seems like Hiwot or I am questioning your faith. I cannot speak for Hiwot, but for myself I think I should explain why I wrote all that, because it certainly wasn't to question your faith or your commitment to evangelizing the wayward Rastafarians and bring them to Orthodoxy, both of which are commendable.

My only point in elaborating what I wrote a few minutes ago (only the last sentence of which really addressed you specifically) would be to say this: Certainly of all the people here, I would not consider myself the least bit qualified or even desiring to judge the orthodoxy of  your faith or anyone's faith. I am not Orthodox! But in my short time of exploring Orthodoxy I have noticed a recurring message in it, sometimes explicit and sometimes implicit: We, whether we are formally "Orthodox" or not, must desire to be Orthodox, and work to be Orthodox, every day and in every way we can. So, forgive me, but when I read about someone retaining unorthodox practices from their past, I am confused. Saying "Jah Rastafari", no matter what justification you may have of it, is not part of the Orthodox faith. "Ras Tafari" was himself Orthodox and never equated himself or placed himself beside God as that mantra does, even if you do not personally understand it as doing that. So, yeah, it seems odd. Again, I'm not questioning your faith or your commitment to it, so much as wondering why this is retained in light of what you know to be the truth. It is NOT the truth that Rastafari and "Jah" have the sort of relation that the Rastafrians say they do. One is a servant and the other is his Master, and as we all know, a servant cannot be greater than his master.

Believe me, my friend, I am not writing any this from a place of haughty self-regard, but because I am deep in this same sort of struggle. Coming from a Roman Catholic background, there is a lot to be unlearned and discarded, especially since I am attending a Coptic Orthodox church and seeking union with it, and not an Eastern Orthodox Church (as the Easterners have about 600 more years of common, if shaky, history with Rome than Alexandria does, I suspect it is probably easier and certainly much more common for ex-RCs to swim the Bosphorus than the Nile). But that's the key: You have to want to give those things up. If you do not see this "Jah Rastafari" business as inherently unorthodox, then I suppose that's one thing. But the fact that fellow Ethiopian Orthodox people have expressed concern about it would give me pause if I were you.

I am unorthodox and do not seek to judge anyone. I can only reflect on HH Pope Shenouda III's saying that we oppose ideas, not people. So I will close by saying that I oppose this idea that "Jah Rastafari" has anything to do with or any place within Orthodox Christianity, and pray that God enlighten all of our paths along the narrow road to salvation. Please pray for me, a sinner.
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Hiwot
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« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2011, 02:15:04 PM »

I don't know too much about this topic and I am REALLY curious to hear your response to Hiwot's dissection of the terminology, Gebre. Nothing about personal issues or faith, just the use of the words "Jah" and "Rastafari." A purely linguistic argument, if you will.

Yeah, I understand your interest. But I've explained it clearly already on this thread. If you don't mind, please go back and read what I've already posted. Thanks!


Selam

all you said was that JAH RASTAFARI means JAH LORD OF CREATION which is in accord with the Rastafarian declaration of faith. but which is in direct opposition to the Orthodox Faith. Rastafari is not LORD OF CREATION is what I have been saying to you and what you inssit will continue to use regardless.

In Christ,
Hiwot.

Dear sister, once again you are in error. That is not all that I said. Please take the time to go back a re-read my comments. If you think that I am an idolater and a liar, then I once again ask that you pray for me a sinner. No need to continue to your argumentative behavior. OK? Thank you my sister.


Selam



I have no wish to engage in a circular argument gebre, The issue of the matter at hand is what is meant when the Rastafarian pray and greet one another and sing their hymns by uttering JAH RASTAFARI . once we clarify the meaning of the term and its horrific blasphemy, I expect no orthodox to repeat it let alone insist that it can be said and one can remain orthodox at the same time. that to me is unacceptable. it is as simple as that. Christians during the pascal season especially we greet each other and sing saying CHRIST IS RISEN! it is the foundation of our christian faith. now if someone was to say PAUL IS RISEN, I will oppose it vehemently because names do matter, words and their meanings do matter. now all I am saying is please abandon such utterance which is heretical , and please teach those who continue to say such a thing to stop if they want to become Orthodox Christians JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI!!! there is no way around this fact. they must be all willing to renounce such heresy.

Do not greet them saying JAH RASTAFARI I , RASTAFARI JAH or this would be misleading them, instead tell them to stop saying such a thing because JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI & RASTAFARI IS NOT JAH! this is how one talks to those who are mislead to  believe and say JAH  RASTAFARI. because we can not and should not affirm others in their errors which can cost them their very souls, and we can not be teachers of the young when we are straggling with the same / similar attachment to falsehood that they hold on to.

in what is important I find silence to be the gravest sin that will be an icing to top all my other sins. So out of fear of His judgement I speak .

In Christ,
Hiwot
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To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #47 on: November 09, 2011, 02:20:24 PM »

I'm sorry, Gebre, if it seems like Hiwot or I am questioning your faith. I cannot speak for Hiwot, but for myself I think I should explain why I wrote all that, because it certainly wasn't to question your faith or your commitment to evangelizing the wayward Rastafarians and bring them to Orthodoxy, both of which are commendable.

My only point in elaborating what I wrote a few minutes ago (only the last sentence of which really addressed you specifically) would be to say this: Certainly of all the people here, I would not consider myself the least bit qualified or even desiring to judge the orthodoxy of  your faith or anyone's faith. I am not Orthodox! But in my short time of exploring Orthodoxy I have noticed a recurring message in it, sometimes explicit and sometimes implicit: We, whether we are formally "Orthodox" or not, must desire to be Orthodox, and work to be Orthodox, every day and in every way we can. So, forgive me, but when I read about someone retaining unorthodox practices from their past, I am confused. Saying "Jah Rastafari", no matter what justification you may have of it, is not part of the Orthodox faith. "Ras Tafari" was himself Orthodox and never equated himself or placed himself beside God as that mantra does, even if you do not personally understand it as doing that. So, yeah, it seems odd. Again, I'm not questioning your faith or your commitment to it, so much as wondering why this is retained in light of what you know to be the truth. It is NOT the truth that Rastafari and "Jah" have the sort of relation that the Rastafrians say they do. One is a servant and the other is his Master, and as we all know, a servant cannot be greater than his master.

Believe me, my friend, I am not writing any this from a place of haughty self-regard, but because I am deep in this same sort of struggle. Coming from a Roman Catholic background, there is a lot to be unlearned and discarded, especially since I am attending a Coptic Orthodox church and seeking union with it, and not an Eastern Orthodox Church (as the Easterners have about 600 more years of common, if shaky, history with Rome than Alexandria does, I suspect it is probably easier and certainly much more common for ex-RCs to swim the Bosphorus than the Nile). But that's the key: You have to want to give those things up. If you do not see this "Jah Rastafari" business as inherently unorthodox, then I suppose that's one thing. But the fact that fellow Ethiopian Orthodox people have expressed concern about it would give me pause if I were you.

I am unorthodox and do not seek to judge anyone. I can only reflect on HH Pope Shenouda III's saying that we oppose ideas, not people. So I will close by saying that I oppose this idea that "Jah Rastafari" has anything to do with or any place within Orthodox Christianity, and pray that God enlighten all of our paths along the narrow road to salvation. Please pray for me, a sinner.



Thank you for expressing your concerns and doing so in a non-judgmental manner. I really appreciate that! I have no problem whatsoever with Orthodox Christians questioning why it is I still say "JAH! Rastafari!". I am happy to explain it just as I have done on this thread. I have NEVER stated that this phrase is integral to my Orthodox Faith.

There are Orthodox Christians on this forum who believe that abortion should be legal, who believe in homosexual marriage, and who vote for warmongering and abortion-defending politicians. I find such views and actions quite unOrthodox and downright evil, but I still would never dare to question the faith and sincerity of these brethren or accuse them of idolatry.

In spite of my repeated efforts to explain what I mean, Hiwot seems intent on telling me that I mean something else. In spite of the fact that I repeatedly state that I DO NOT worship Haile Selassie, she seems intent on insinuating that I do. It's very frustrating, and it makes me very sad.


I strive to be Orthodox in every facet of my life, although I fall short due to my numerous sins. But when I was Baptized, I abandoned all my former subjective beliefs and opinions and pledged to conform all my thoughts, actions, and philosophies to Jesus Christ and the Teachings and Traditions of His Church. I am always learning, and I have learned much from many of Hiwot's beautiful posts. But I don't tolerate anyone telling me what I believe or what I mean. That is judgmental and arrogant, and such unfounded accusations are not profitable.

Thank you again for your sincere questions and concerns.


Selam
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 02:25:35 PM by Gebre Menfes Kidus » Logged

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« Reply #48 on: November 09, 2011, 02:23:57 PM »

I don't know too much about this topic and I am REALLY curious to hear your response to Hiwot's dissection of the terminology, Gebre. Nothing about personal issues or faith, just the use of the words "Jah" and "Rastafari." A purely linguistic argument, if you will.

Yeah, I understand your interest. But I've explained it clearly already on this thread. If you don't mind, please go back and read what I've already posted. Thanks!


Selam

all you said was that JAH RASTAFARI means JAH LORD OF CREATION which is in accord with the Rastafarian declaration of faith. but which is in direct opposition to the Orthodox Faith. Rastafari is not LORD OF CREATION is what I have been saying to you and what you inssit will continue to use regardless.

In Christ,
Hiwot.

Dear sister, once again you are in error. That is not all that I said. Please take the time to go back a re-read my comments. If you think that I am an idolater and a liar, then I once again ask that you pray for me a sinner. No need to continue to your argumentative behavior. OK? Thank you my sister.


Selam



I have no wish to engage in a circular argument gebre, The issue of the matter at hand is what is meant when the Rastafarian pray and greet one another and sing their hymns by uttering JAH RASTAFARI . once we clarify the meaning of the term and its horrific blasphemy, I expect no orthodox to repeat it let alone insist that it can be said and one can remain orthodox at the same time. that to me is unacceptable. it is as simple as that. Christians during the pascal season especially we greet each other and sing saying CHRIST IS RISEN! it is the foundation of our christian faith. now if someone was to say PAUL IS RISEN, I will oppose it vehemently because names do matter, words and their meanings do matter. now all I am saying is please abandon such utterance which is heretical , and please teach those who continue to say such a thing to stop if they want to become Orthodox Christians JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI!!! there is no way around this fact. they must be all willing to renounce such heresy.

Do not greet them saying JAH RASTAFARI I , RASTAFARI JAH or this would be misleading them, instead tell them to stop saying such a thing because JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI & RASTAFARI IS NOT JAH! this is how one talks to those who are mislead to  believe and say JAH  RASTAFARI. because we can not and should not affirm others in their errors which can cost them their very souls, and we can not be teachers of the young when we are straggling with the same / similar attachment to falsehood that they hold on to.

in what is important I find silence to be the gravest sin that will be an icing to top all my other sins. So out of fear of His judgement I speak .

In Christ,
Hiwot

Hiwot: What are you doing to minister to and evangelize Rastafarians? If you feel so strongly about the matter, then why don't you invest your energy in reaching out to them and leading them out of their idolatry instead of fighting down your Orthodox Tewahedo brother?


Selam
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Hiwot
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« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2011, 02:38:14 PM »

I don't know too much about this topic and I am REALLY curious to hear your response to Hiwot's dissection of the terminology, Gebre. Nothing about personal issues or faith, just the use of the words "Jah" and "Rastafari." A purely linguistic argument, if you will.

Yeah, I understand your interest. But I've explained it clearly already on this thread. If you don't mind, please go back and read what I've already posted. Thanks!


Selam

all you said was that JAH RASTAFARI means JAH LORD OF CREATION which is in accord with the Rastafarian declaration of faith. but which is in direct opposition to the Orthodox Faith. Rastafari is not LORD OF CREATION is what I have been saying to you and what you inssit will continue to use regardless.

In Christ,
Hiwot.

Dear sister, once again you are in error. That is not all that I said. Please take the time to go back a re-read my comments. If you think that I am an idolater and a liar, then I once again ask that you pray for me a sinner. No need to continue to your argumentative behavior. OK? Thank you my sister.


Selam



I have no wish to engage in a circular argument gebre, The issue of the matter at hand is what is meant when the Rastafarian pray and greet one another and sing their hymns by uttering JAH RASTAFARI . once we clarify the meaning of the term and its horrific blasphemy, I expect no orthodox to repeat it let alone insist that it can be said and one can remain orthodox at the same time. that to me is unacceptable. it is as simple as that. Christians during the pascal season especially we greet each other and sing saying CHRIST IS RISEN! it is the foundation of our christian faith. now if someone was to say PAUL IS RISEN, I will oppose it vehemently because names do matter, words and their meanings do matter. now all I am saying is please abandon such utterance which is heretical , and please teach those who continue to say such a thing to stop if they want to become Orthodox Christians JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI!!! there is no way around this fact. they must be all willing to renounce such heresy.

Do not greet them saying JAH RASTAFARI I , RASTAFARI JAH or this would be misleading them, instead tell them to stop saying such a thing because JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI & RASTAFARI IS NOT JAH! this is how one talks to those who are mislead to  believe and say JAH  RASTAFARI. because we can not and should not affirm others in their errors which can cost them their very souls, and we can not be teachers of the young when we are straggling with the same / similar attachment to falsehood that they hold on to.

in what is important I find silence to be the gravest sin that will be an icing to top all my other sins. So out of fear of His judgement I speak .

In Christ,
Hiwot

Hiwot: What are you doing to minister to and evangelize Rastafarians? If you feel so strongly about the matter, then why don't you invest your energy in reaching out to them and leading them out of their idolatry instead of fighting down your Orthodox Tewahedo brother?


Selam


HAHAHA Gebre, Oh I am first trying to see if this said orthodox brother who is insisting to continuing to saying  JAH RASTAFARI and who also claimes to be the teacher and minster of those who are Rastafarian's( who also say with him JAH RASTAFARI , AMEN to his JAH RASTAFARI utterance)  could conform to the Orthodox Faith and say JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI first to himself and then perhaps he can tell it to those whom he said he is ministering to.

God willing the confirmation to faith of the self proclaimed messanger of the Faith will make sure that those who hear the message hear the Orthodox Faith and not another JAH RASTAFARI  speech.

In Christ,
Hiwot.
Logged

To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Warned
Merarches
***********
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Posts: 8,312

"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #50 on: November 09, 2011, 02:51:23 PM »

I don't know too much about this topic and I am REALLY curious to hear your response to Hiwot's dissection of the terminology, Gebre. Nothing about personal issues or faith, just the use of the words "Jah" and "Rastafari." A purely linguistic argument, if you will.

Yeah, I understand your interest. But I've explained it clearly already on this thread. If you don't mind, please go back and read what I've already posted. Thanks!


Selam

all you said was that JAH RASTAFARI means JAH LORD OF CREATION which is in accord with the Rastafarian declaration of faith. but which is in direct opposition to the Orthodox Faith. Rastafari is not LORD OF CREATION is what I have been saying to you and what you inssit will continue to use regardless.

In Christ,
Hiwot.

Dear sister, once again you are in error. That is not all that I said. Please take the time to go back a re-read my comments. If you think that I am an idolater and a liar, then I once again ask that you pray for me a sinner. No need to continue to your argumentative behavior. OK? Thank you my sister.


Selam



I have no wish to engage in a circular argument gebre, The issue of the matter at hand is what is meant when the Rastafarian pray and greet one another and sing their hymns by uttering JAH RASTAFARI . once we clarify the meaning of the term and its horrific blasphemy, I expect no orthodox to repeat it let alone insist that it can be said and one can remain orthodox at the same time. that to me is unacceptable. it is as simple as that. Christians during the pascal season especially we greet each other and sing saying CHRIST IS RISEN! it is the foundation of our christian faith. now if someone was to say PAUL IS RISEN, I will oppose it vehemently because names do matter, words and their meanings do matter. now all I am saying is please abandon such utterance which is heretical , and please teach those who continue to say such a thing to stop if they want to become Orthodox Christians JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI!!! there is no way around this fact. they must be all willing to renounce such heresy.

Do not greet them saying JAH RASTAFARI I , RASTAFARI JAH or this would be misleading them, instead tell them to stop saying such a thing because JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI & RASTAFARI IS NOT JAH! this is how one talks to those who are mislead to  believe and say JAH  RASTAFARI. because we can not and should not affirm others in their errors which can cost them their very souls, and we can not be teachers of the young when we are straggling with the same / similar attachment to falsehood that they hold on to.

in what is important I find silence to be the gravest sin that will be an icing to top all my other sins. So out of fear of His judgement I speak .

In Christ,
Hiwot



Hiwot: What are you doing to minister to and evangelize Rastafarians? If you feel so strongly about the matter, then why don't you invest your energy in reaching out to them and leading them out of their idolatry instead of fighting down your Orthodox Tewahedo brother?


Selam


HAHAHA Gebre, Oh I am first trying to see if this said orthodox brother who is insisting to continuing to saying  JAH RASTAFARI and who also claimes to be the teacher and minster of those who are Rastafarian's( who also say with him JAH RASTAFARI , AMEN to his JAH RASTAFARI utterance)  could conform to the Orthodox Faith and say JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI first to himself and then perhaps he can tell it to those whom he said he is ministering to.

God willing the confirmation to faith of the self proclaimed messanger of the Faith will make sure that those who hear the message hear the Orthodox Faith and not another JAH RASTAFARI  speech.

In Christ,
Hiwot.

Perhaps if you take the time to read my book, you will see how devoted I am to proclaiming the Orthodox Tewahedo Faith. But you nevertheless question my Faith and question my Baptism. Judge me if you wish, but it is not you whom I will stand before on the Day of Judgment.

I do not wish to argue anymore with you, as this whole conversation has made me very sad already. I am sorry that you do not view me as your Orthodox Christian brother, but I will consider you my sister all the same.

Peace to you in Our Lord and Savior Eyesus Kristos!

Besisme Ab, WeWolde, We Menfes Qidus, Ahadu Amlak, -amen-


Selam
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dzheremi
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« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2011, 02:57:54 PM »

In spite of my repeated efforts to explain what I mean, Hiwot seems intent on telling me that I mean something else. In spite of the fact that I repeatedly state that I DO NOT worship Haile Selassie, she seems intent on insinuating that I do. It's very frustrating, and it makes me very sad.

I suppose the problem with this is that you (or I, or anyone here) do not get to decide what words mean. Meaning, as a linguistic concept and especially with regard to our Christian history, is a matter of community agreement (this is a simplified explanation, but I'm assuming you don't want to read a bunch of linguistic literature, so just trust me that this is basically the case). As regards the faith, I assume that you can appreciate how this has played out: In councils we have decided what is acceptable in our creeds as an expression of our faith and what is not. When this model has been violated, it has led to grievous damage to the church by the various heretics who have decided that what we should really mean is ______. So we do not accept this as a means of expressing the truth of the Christian faith. I do not mean at all to compare you or equate with you the condemned Arius, Nestorius, et al., but to say (as much for my own benefit as anyone else's) that relying on our own logic and not submitting ourselves to the wise judgment of our fathers inherently produces deviation.

Quote
I strive to be Orthodox in every facet of my life, although I fall short due to my numerous sins. But when I was Baptized, I abandoned all my former subjective beliefs and opinions and pledged to conform all my thoughts, actions, and philosophies to Jesus Christ and the Teachings and Traditions of His Church.


God bless you in your striving. May He give you strength and wisdom in all things.

Quote
I am always learning, and I have learned much from many of Hiwot's beautiful posts. But I don't tolerate anyone telling me what I believe or what I mean. That is judgmental and arrogant, and such unfounded accusations are not profitable.

But to what end is this supposed judgment? I understand from your replies that you feel that you are unfairly personally judged. This is why I included the bit from HH Pope Shenouda III about opposing ideas, not people. If I oppose your ideas not any less than anyone else, will you address my concerns safely in the knowledge that I am not pitting myself against you, but only confused as to why you continue to say "Jah Rastafari"? (As I wrote in my last reply)

Because that's where I'm at, my friend. What you have written so far does not make clear to me how "Jah Rastafari" is even remotely compatible with Orthodoxy, but that you believe it carries a certain meaning for you when you say it. I could very well say the same about the "filioque" clause (the closest thing that I can think of from my own background that might be analogous to this situation), but the fact remains that if I continue to pronounce it and believe it in some way, I will not be baptized. Why? Because the filioque is not part of the Orthodox faith.

I hope the parallel is not taken as a personal attack. I actually have had no trouble giving up the filioque (as I always had problems with it as an RC), but I am trying to relate to you, Gebre. Please keep that in mind, should you choose to respond.
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« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2011, 03:05:40 PM »

I judge you not! although you insist that you are persecuted when all that has been questioned is why you insist to cry out JAH RASTAFARI, and say it is an orthodox thing to do. were I to err from the orthodox faith I would pray for my brothers and sisters to correct me in the orthodox faith , it would be a kindness to me, and I would gladly receive it from their hands,even if they were to strike me I would see it as mercy. if you count all the above conversation as some sort of persecution , indeed you are free to do so. and I will rest my case as all that has to be said is said and done in the matter of affirming the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church rejects any form of blasphemous utterance that link the person of rastafari as the Almighty in any form or shape and most specifically those who still confess the Rastafarian creed that says JAH RASTAFARI.

In Christ,
Hiwot.
Logged

To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Warned
Merarches
***********
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Posts: 8,312

"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2011, 03:12:16 PM »

In spite of my repeated efforts to explain what I mean, Hiwot seems intent on telling me that I mean something else. In spite of the fact that I repeatedly state that I DO NOT worship Haile Selassie, she seems intent on insinuating that I do. It's very frustrating, and it makes me very sad.

I suppose the problem with this is that you (or I, or anyone here) do not get to decide what words mean. Meaning, as a linguistic concept and especially with regard to our Christian history, is a matter of community agreement (this is a simplified explanation, but I'm assuming you don't want to read a bunch of linguistic literature, so just trust me that this is basically the case). As regards the faith, I assume that you can appreciate how this has played out: In councils we have decided what is acceptable in our creeds as an expression of our faith and what is not. When this model has been violated, it has led to grievous damage to the church by the various heretics who have decided that what we should really mean is ______. So we do not accept this as a means of expressing the truth of the Christian faith. I do not mean at all to compare you or equate with you the condemned Arius, Nestorius, et al., but to say (as much for my own benefit as anyone else's) that relying on our own logic and not submitting ourselves to the wise judgment of our fathers inherently produces deviation.

Quote
I strive to be Orthodox in every facet of my life, although I fall short due to my numerous sins. But when I was Baptized, I abandoned all my former subjective beliefs and opinions and pledged to conform all my thoughts, actions, and philosophies to Jesus Christ and the Teachings and Traditions of His Church.


God bless you in your striving. May He give you strength and wisdom in all things.

Quote
I am always learning, and I have learned much from many of Hiwot's beautiful posts. But I don't tolerate anyone telling me what I believe or what I mean. That is judgmental and arrogant, and such unfounded accusations are not profitable.

But to what end is this supposed judgment? I understand from your replies that you feel that you are unfairly personally judged. This is why I included the bit from HH Pope Shenouda III about opposing ideas, not people. If I oppose your ideas not any less than anyone else, will you address my concerns safely in the knowledge that I am not pitting myself against you, but only confused as to why you continue to say "Jah Rastafari"? (As I wrote in my last reply)

Because that's where I'm at, my friend. What you have written so far does not make clear to me how "Jah Rastafari" is even remotely compatible with Orthodoxy, but that you believe it carries a certain meaning for you when you say it. I could very well say the same about the "filioque" clause (the closest thing that I can think of from my own background that might be analogous to this situation), but the fact remains that if I continue to pronounce it and believe it in some way, I will not be baptized. Why? Because the filioque is not part of the Orthodox faith.

I hope the parallel is not taken as a personal attack. I actually have had no trouble giving up the filioque (as I always had problems with it as an RC), but I am trying to relate to you, Gebre. Please keep that in mind, should you choose to respond.


Thanks for your thoughts. However, I am not promoting a subjective interpretation of these words. "JAH" is found in the Bible, and is pure Hebrew. And "Rastafari" has already been well defined by sister Hiwot. I have explained that God is Lord, Ruler, Creator, and so awesome and holy as to be feared by all those in the flesh. So, when I use these words, and within the context in which I choose to use them, I am not violating any Orthodox Teaching whatsoever. Of course I would never use this phrase in Church, and I rarely use it at all, simply because I don't want to cause the type of confusion that has occurred right here on this thread

But it would be like me telling a Muslim convert to Christianity that he should never say "Allah" or "Asalaam Alaikum," and accusing him of idolatry if he continued to do so. Who am I to tell a baptized Orthodox Christian that he is an idolater simply because he sometimes says "Allah" instead of "God"?


Selam
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« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2011, 03:16:55 PM »

I judge you not! although you insist that you are persecuted when all that has been questioned is why you insist to cry out JAH RASTAFARI, and say it is an orthodox thing to do. were I to err from the orthodox faith I would pray for my brothers and sisters to correct me in the orthodox faith , it would be a kindness to me, and I would gladly receive it from their hands,even if they were to strike me I would see it as mercy. if you count all the above conversation as some sort of persecution , indeed you are free to do so. and I will rest my case as all that has to be said is said and done in the matter of affirming the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church rejects any form of blasphemous utterance that link the person of rastafari as the Almighty in any form or shape and most specifically those who still confess the Rastafarian creed that says JAH RASTAFARI.

In Christ,
Hiwot.


Read my book and then make your judgments. I don't feel "persecuted," so don't play that game with me. (I can see that you have adopted the tactics of certain others on this forum.) You don't even honor the Monarchy, yet I refrain from judging you. If I am wrong then I am open to correction, and if my Priest tells me to cease using this utterance then I will obey him. Until then, I once again ask that you pray for me a sinner. Let's end this now if you will be so kind.


Selam
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« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2011, 03:33:37 PM »

I judge you not! although you insist that you are persecuted when all that has been questioned is why you insist to cry out JAH RASTAFARI, and say it is an orthodox thing to do. were I to err from the orthodox faith I would pray for my brothers and sisters to correct me in the orthodox faith , it would be a kindness to me, and I would gladly receive it from their hands,even if they were to strike me I would see it as mercy. if you count all the above conversation as some sort of persecution , indeed you are free to do so. and I will rest my case as all that has to be said is said and done in the matter of affirming the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church rejects any form of blasphemous utterance that link the person of rastafari as the Almighty in any form or shape and most specifically those who still confess the Rastafarian creed that says JAH RASTAFARI.

In Christ,
Hiwot.


Read my book and then make your judgments. I don't feel "persecuted," so don't play that game with me. (I can see that you have adopted the tactics of certain others on this forum.) You don't even honor the Monarchy, yet I refrain from judging you. If I am wrong then I am open to correction, and if my Priest tells me to cease using this utterance then I will obey him. Until then, I once again ask that you pray for me a sinner. Let's end this now if you will be so kind.


Selam


Gebre you yourself said you are being targated personally , when rather what I have been targating was what you claim to be orthodox when you utter the JAH RASTAFARI thing, you keep resorting to how you feel sad that your faith is being questioned when there is a valid reason to question what you believe to be orthodox, you make it seem that you are above question even when you obviously say something unorthodox and proclaim it as an orthodox. I am sorry but this has been your argument over and over and over again. you are not willing to be corrected so you prolong it by saying how can you question MY faith .  If as you say others as well pointed out this feeling of persecution that you bring into an ideological argument then I would think perhaps you  might need to sit down and evaluate your behavior as well. However My point was mainly  based on your continued reference to how you are being personally targeted when it is your idea that is being challenged.

as to the matter of honoring the monarchy LOL this is too funny , I honor my kings all of them who were orthodox Christians and just leaders. I will not pray for the return of the monarchy to the present day Ethiopia, I am under no canonical rule to do so, and your political fetish has no baring upon what the Ethiopian people need in a leader .And while we are arguing a matter of  Orthodox DOGMA do not try to side step it by a political discussion. do not make this a political debate I have no wish to go into that with you, you are free to pray for the return of the monarchy. I will pray for leaders elected  democratically by all the people of Ethiopia  who are just and for the rule of Law which will be just for all.

If you say that you need to wait until your priest tells you  that the man Rastafari is not JAH  which is what you are saying when you say JAH RASTAFARI then I rest my case.

Peace to you my brother I too have no wish to converse any further.
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« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2011, 03:35:58 PM »

Since my Orthodox Faith has been questioned and attacked, I thought I would post a link to my Testimony of Baptism into the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. It makes it quite clear that I never have nor do I now worship Haile Selassie.


http://mysteryandmeaning.blogspot.com/2010/07/my-spiritual-journey.html



Selam
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« Reply #57 on: November 09, 2011, 03:44:25 PM »


If you say that you need to wait until your priest tells you  that the man Rastafarian is not JAH then I rest my case.

This is the kind of willful ignorance and deliberate misrepresentation of my views that is not only dishonest but downright shameful. The only reason I'm responding is so that others will not be misled by your slanderous comments. Once again: I DO NOT WORSHIP HAILE SELASSIE, AND I DO NOT THINK THAT THE MAN RASTAFARI IS GOD! Ok? Did you read that? Please read it again to make sure that you understand.

I am amazed that a girl of your apparrent intelligence would ignore the fact that I have said this repeatedly on this thread. I don't need my Priest to tell me this, since I am already quite aware of the fact. In fact, my Priest would NEVER have baptized me if he thought that I was in any way, shape, or form worhsipping Emperor Haile Selassie. So, I am calling you out on your dishonesty, and I hope that you will cease such inexcusable behavior.


Selam
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« Reply #58 on: November 09, 2011, 03:47:58 PM »

Thanks for your thoughts. However, I am not promoting a subjective interpretation of these words. "JAH" is found in the Bible, and is pure Hebrew. And "Rastafari" has already been well defined by sister Hiwot. I have explained that God is Lord, Ruler, Creator, and so awesome and holy as to be feared by all those in the flesh. So, when I use these words, and within the context in which I choose to use them, I am not violating any Orthodox Teaching whatsoever.

I have bolded the portions of this section of the reply that, taken in concert, make me go "Hmmmm".  Undecided Out of respect for you, I will not say any more about them, as I hope it is clear enough without belaboring the point why I am confused at this stage.

Quote
Of course I would never use this phrase in Church, and I rarely use it at all, simply because I don't want to cause the type of confusion that has occurred right here on this thread


So why use it at all, then? If it is inappropriate in the house of God, and prone to cause confusion, what good is it?

Quote
But it would be like me telling a Muslim convert to Christianity that he should never say "Allah" or "Asalaam Alaikum," and accusing him of idolatry if he continued to do so. Who am I to tell a baptized Orthodox Christian that he is an idolater simply because he sometimes says "Allah" instead of "God"?

Ah, I'm sorry my friend, I must take a harder line here than I have in the past. You see, I attend an Arabic-speaking church, and although it is far from being my first language, I can generally make my way around it with the aid of the translations provided for any words I do not know (and there are indeed many). So, since we do say "Allah" quite a lot, I must tell you that this is the most unconvincing simile that I can think of. We say "Allah" as a fact of the Arabic language having this word for "God", not because there is any syncretism going on between our Orthodox Christianity and Islam (since, of course, Arabic-speaking Christians existed for centuries before Islam reshaped the Arab culture and much of the Arabic language in its own perverse image). If Islam had never existed, "Allah" would still be the Arabic word for "God"; it just wouldn't have the Islam-specific claims attached to it that it currently has. Can the same be said of "Jah Rastafari"? If the Rastafarian blasphemy had never existed, would anyone be saying "Jah Rastafari" in any context?

I do not think so. So this is not a very good comparison.

(An aside: Among my Christian friends I say "Salam al-Masih m'akum", or just "Salam". Salam 'alaikum, while not "wrong" to say, carries a contextual meaning outside of strictly Christian-to-Christian relations that is absolutely unacceptable given the theological/imperial baggage associated with it by the Muslim Arab majority. Would that it were not the case, but as someone else has posted, words do have meaning, and if it were absolutely neutral they would greet us with it without hesitation. Instead, the history of Islam-Christian relations shows the opposite: They (the Muslims) have actually been told not to greet us with this greeting, reserving it instead for their own as an expression of in-group solidarity. See the hadith collection of Muslim [personal name], and Al-Nawawi's commentary thereupon for more on this.)
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« Reply #59 on: November 09, 2011, 03:53:38 PM »


If you say that you need to wait until your priest tells you  that the man Rastafarian is not JAH then I rest my case.

This is the kind of willful ignorance and deliberate misrepresentation of my views that is not only dishonest but downright shameful. The only reason I'm responding is so that others will not be misled by your slanderous comments. Once again: I DO NOT WORSHIP HAILE SELASSIE, AND I DO NOT THINK THAT THE MAN RASTAFARI IS GOD! Ok? Did you read that? Please read it again to make sure that you understand.

I am amazed that a girl of your apparrent intelligence would ignore the fact that I have said this repeatedly on this thread. I don't need my Priest to tell me this, since I am already quite aware of the fact. In fact, my Priest would NEVER have baptized me if he thought that I was in any way, shape, or form worhsipping Emperor Haile Selassie. So, I am calling you out on your dishonesty, and I hope that you will cease such inexcusable behavior.


Selam

Now if you do  believe that RASTAFARI is not JAH , then why do you insist  not only to use the term but claim it is Orthodox? simple answer will do. Grin
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« Reply #60 on: November 09, 2011, 04:00:01 PM »

BLESSED BE ABUNA YESEHAQ,EMISSARY OF HIS MAJESTY HAILE SELASSIE 1...BLESSED BE HAILE SELASSIE THE GREATEST TEACHER AND KINDEST WHO ASSOCIATED WITH REJECTED EXILED HUMAN BEINGS SEEKING IDENTITY,THE RASTAS,WHO WERE SCSRRED BY WRETCHED NESS OF WESTERN CIVILATIONS AND IN GOD SIGHT NEED CONSOLATION TODAY.ETHIOPIANS ARE AN UNGRATEFUL SOCIETY AND PROVEN TO BE POLITICISED  CHRISTIANS SINCE THEY REJECTED THE WORDS OF ABBA YESEHAQ THE BISHOP OF RASTAFARIANS,WHO WARNED NOT TO ELECT 2 PATRIARCHS AND THAT IS BIGGEST BLASPHEMY ERODING THE CHURCH.YES ETHIOPIA BELONG TO THE AFRO AMERICANS YU SEE IN THE GARBAGE BINS,HOME LESS,FACING PREJUDICES ,BECAUSE THEIR BROTHERS SOLD THEM FOR RICE AND PEAS.BLESSED BE THE SYMPATHISERS OF OTHER RACES WHO EMBRACE ETHIOPIA AS A SYMBOL OF DEFENCE AS THE EMPEROR WAS FATHER TO ALL NATIONS AND ABBA YESEHAQ BAPTISED ALL NATIONS OF TYHE EARTH UNDER RASTAFARI WAY OF LIFE.RASTAFARI IS A AWY OF LIFE.ITS JAMAICAN.ETHIOPIANS CANNOT EXPLAIN IT.ITS A WAY OF LIFE NOW FOR PPL WORLWIDE TO KEEP ONE FROM WRONG LIVING AS WE R ALL SINNERS AND SAME ORTHODOX CLEAN CUT ETHIOPIANS ASSISSINATE MONKS IN CHURCH AS ABBA PAULOS DID FEKADE SELASSIE WITH HIS IVOTY HANDLE PISTOL AFTER THE MONK TOLD HIM HE IS ILLEGALLY ELECTED.TELL THE CORRUPT SYNOD IN ADDIS TO STOP SENDING POLICE N GUN MEN TO JAMAICA CHURCH AS ANGLICAN AND CATHOLIC CHURCHES SUBMITTING LETTERS NOW TO PUT BABYLON IN OUR CHURCH AS WOLVES AS OUR BISHOP WAS POISONED BY HIS OWN PEOPLE OF HABESHA STOCK IN DALLAS TX.I PERSONALLY PICKED HIM UP AT AIRPORT IN NJ ,VOMITTING BLOOD BECAUSE HE DEFENDS RASTAFARIANS AND THE EMPEROR THE REAL CHRISTIAN WAY WITH LOVE.ETHIOPIANS STEREO YYPE PLL AND R ETHNIC ALOTT.NOT GOOD CHRISTIANS.THEY NEVER RECEIVE HOLY COMMUNION BUT THE KIDS AND OLD...AND WHEN YU COME TO THE WESTERN BORN CHURCH YU SEE RASTAFARIANS AND FAMILIES RECEIVING COMMUNION.GO STUDY WHO RASTAFARI IS AND LEARN BEFORE YOU JUDGE.THE LANGUAGE BARRIER IS WHAT IT IS.WHEN DEAMONS ATTACK ME ONE DAY RASTAFARI JAH WAS ONE WORD I DISCOVERED CHASED DEVILS AWAY..HOW CAN GOD HOUSE BE DIVIDED.NO ONE CAN STOP IT NOW.ITS A MYSTERY.VAIN MEN MUST OBSERVE THIS.THE RASTAFARIANS AND HARLOTS ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN BEFORE MANY OF THE PEOPLE IN BIG CHRISTIAN POSITIONS BECAUSE THEY SEEKING IDENTITY DENIED BY STEREOTYPE,AND THEY R SINCERE TO FIND THEIR SAVIOUR.LET CHRIST REMEMBER US IN HIS MERCY.JAH RAS TAFARI///YHE HEAD I FEAR...CHRIST TAFARI...CHRIST WHO I FEAR...YESUS TAFARI YESUS WHO I FEAR....ITS A JAMAICAN THING ..ONLY A JAMAICAN ACN CROSS IT...AND INTRODUCE IT TO THE WORLD.....BEHOLD ST ELIAS IS NOW IN ETHIOPIA AWAITING HIS WORK ON EARTH FOR 4 YRS..LOVE EVERYONE..THE BROTHERS N SISTERS IN SHASHEMANE NEED A HOME IN AFRICA AND THE GOV TOOK THE LAND GRANT AFTER 70 YRS.WE BUILT SCHOOLS N BUSINESS SO THE YOUNG GIRLS DONT TURN TO PROSTITUTION FOR SURVIVAL AND MOST R CHRISTIANS TOO WITH HIV..OF COURSE ETHIOPIA ,A BACKWARD COUNTRY LIKE THAT NEEDS FOREIGNERS WHO WAS STOLEN BY AHMEH GRAHN AND SOLD TO EUROPEANS FOR SLAVERY..THE JAHMA TRIBE ABBA YESEHAQ TEACH US ABOUT.YOU THINK IS A JOKE.?LIVES ARE HERE AT STEAK.FIRE PON ABORTION AND PROPAGANDA...ALL OF AFRIKA IS ETHIOPIA..ITS A CONTINENT HISTORICALLY.SURELY RASTA CAN TEACH ETHIOPIANS...RIGHT NOW WE TEACHING HABESHA KIDS IN BOSTON WHO LOST THEIR IDENTITY BECAUSE THEY BORN IN ENGLISH COUNTRY SO THEY NUST STUDY WITH RASTA WHO ABBA YESEHAQ PRINT ENGLISH PRAYER BOOKS TO UNDERSTAND THE AMHARIC LITURGY AT HAILE SELASSIE EXPENSES...GOOD OVER EVILL.AND WE WILL FIGHT IF WE FINF IT NECESSARY TO PROTECT OUR EOTC IN KINGSTON JAMAICA.GO AWAY satan.THE LORD REBUKE thee.one black love to all today.
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« Reply #61 on: November 09, 2011, 04:00:18 PM »


If you say that you need to wait until your priest tells you  that the man Rastafarian is not JAH then I rest my case.

This is the kind of willful ignorance and deliberate misrepresentation of my views that is not only dishonest but downright shameful. The only reason I'm responding is so that others will not be misled by your slanderous comments. Once again: I DO NOT WORSHIP HAILE SELASSIE, AND I DO NOT THINK THAT THE MAN RASTAFARI IS GOD! Ok? Did you read that? Please read it again to make sure that you understand.

I am amazed that a girl of your apparrent intelligence would ignore the fact that I have said this repeatedly on this thread. I don't need my Priest to tell me this, since I am already quite aware of the fact. In fact, my Priest would NEVER have baptized me if he thought that I was in any way, shape, or form worhsipping Emperor Haile Selassie. So, I am calling you out on your dishonesty, and I hope that you will cease such inexcusable behavior.


Selam

Now if you do  believe that RASTAFARI is not JAH , then why do you insist  not only to use the term but claim it is Orthodox? simple answer will do. Grin


I have answered already. Nothing more to say to you until you repent of your false accusations against me. Until you can have the integrity to do that, then I can't have a reasonable discussion with you. You have my forgiveness anyway though.


Selam
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« Reply #62 on: November 09, 2011, 04:02:38 PM »

When a person says and prays using this term ' JAH RASTAFARI' without question that person is already declaring his faith "JAH IS RASTAFARI/YAHWEH IS RASTAFARI'

IF someone says this and yet insists that no he is not saying it , is really a difficult thing to communicate with the person who is in denial of the very thing he is saying. so insted says I will use it but I will ' think of those words to mean something other than they already mean' and if I think of them that way , it will be OK and infact totally orthodox . incredible!
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« Reply #63 on: November 09, 2011, 04:05:16 PM »

BLESSED BE ABUNA YESEHAQ,EMISSARY OF HIS MAJESTY HAILE SELASSIE 1...BLESSED BE HAILE SELASSIE THE GREATEST TEACHER AND KINDEST WHO ASSOCIATED WITH REJECTED EXILED HUMAN BEINGS SEEKING IDENTITY,THE RASTAS,WHO WERE SCSRRED BY WRETCHED NESS OF WESTERN CIVILATIONS AND IN GOD SIGHT NEED CONSOLATION TODAY.ETHIOPIANS ARE AN UNGRATEFUL SOCIETY AND PROVEN TO BE POLITICISED  CHRISTIANS SINCE THEY REJECTED THE WORDS OF ABBA YESEHAQ THE BISHOP OF RASTAFARIANS,WHO WARNED NOT TO ELECT 2 PATRIARCHS AND THAT IS BIGGEST BLASPHEMY ERODING THE CHURCH.YES ETHIOPIA BELONG TO THE AFRO AMERICANS YU SEE IN THE GARBAGE BINS,HOME LESS,FACING PREJUDICES ,BECAUSE THEIR BROTHERS SOLD THEM FOR RICE AND PEAS.BLESSED BE THE SYMPATHISERS OF OTHER RACES WHO EMBRACE ETHIOPIA AS A SYMBOL OF DEFENCE AS THE EMPEROR WAS FATHER TO ALL NATIONS AND ABBA YESEHAQ BAPTISED ALL NATIONS OF TYHE EARTH UNDER RASTAFARI WAY OF LIFE.RASTAFARI IS A AWY OF LIFE.ITS JAMAICAN.ETHIOPIANS CANNOT EXPLAIN IT.ITS A WAY OF LIFE NOW FOR PPL WORLWIDE TO KEEP ONE FROM WRONG LIVING AS WE R ALL SINNERS AND SAME ORTHODOX CLEAN CUT ETHIOPIANS ASSISSINATE MONKS IN CHURCH AS ABBA PAULOS DID FEKADE SELASSIE WITH HIS IVOTY HANDLE PISTOL AFTER THE MONK TOLD HIM HE IS ILLEGALLY ELECTED.TELL THE CORRUPT SYNOD IN ADDIS TO STOP SENDING POLICE N GUN MEN TO JAMAICA CHURCH AS ANGLICAN AND CATHOLIC CHURCHES SUBMITTING LETTERS NOW TO PUT BABYLON IN OUR CHURCH AS WOLVES AS OUR BISHOP WAS POISONED BY HIS OWN PEOPLE OF HABESHA STOCK IN DALLAS TX.I PERSONALLY PICKED HIM UP AT AIRPORT IN NJ ,VOMITTING BLOOD BECAUSE HE DEFENDS RASTAFARIANS AND THE EMPEROR THE REAL CHRISTIAN WAY WITH LOVE.ETHIOPIANS STEREO YYPE PLL AND R ETHNIC ALOTT.NOT GOOD CHRISTIANS.THEY NEVER RECEIVE HOLY COMMUNION BUT THE KIDS AND OLD...AND WHEN YU COME TO THE WESTERN BORN CHURCH YU SEE RASTAFARIANS AND FAMILIES RECEIVING COMMUNION.GO STUDY WHO RASTAFARI IS AND LEARN BEFORE YOU JUDGE.THE LANGUAGE BARRIER IS WHAT IT IS.WHEN DEAMONS ATTACK ME ONE DAY RASTAFARI JAH WAS ONE WORD I DISCOVERED CHASED DEVILS AWAY..HOW CAN GOD HOUSE BE DIVIDED.NO ONE CAN STOP IT NOW.ITS A MYSTERY.VAIN MEN MUST OBSERVE THIS.THE RASTAFARIANS AND HARLOTS ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN BEFORE MANY OF THE PEOPLE IN BIG CHRISTIAN POSITIONS BECAUSE THEY SEEKING IDENTITY DENIED BY STEREOTYPE,AND THEY R SINCERE TO FIND THEIR SAVIOUR.LET CHRIST REMEMBER US IN HIS MERCY.JAH RAS TAFARI///YHE HEAD I FEAR...CHRIST TAFARI...CHRIST WHO I FEAR...YESUS TAFARI YESUS WHO I FEAR....ITS A JAMAICAN THING ..ONLY A JAMAICAN ACN CROSS IT...AND INTRODUCE IT TO THE WORLD.....BEHOLD ST ELIAS IS NOW IN ETHIOPIA AWAITING HIS WORK ON EARTH FOR 4 YRS..LOVE EVERYONE..THE BROTHERS N SISTERS IN SHASHEMANE NEED A HOME IN AFRICA AND THE GOV TOOK THE LAND GRANT AFTER 70 YRS.WE BUILT SCHOOLS N BUSINESS SO THE YOUNG GIRLS DONT TURN TO PROSTITUTION FOR SURVIVAL AND MOST R CHRISTIANS TOO WITH HIV..OF COURSE ETHIOPIA ,A BACKWARD COUNTRY LIKE THAT NEEDS FOREIGNERS WHO WAS STOLEN BY AHMEH GRAHN AND SOLD TO EUROPEANS FOR SLAVERY..THE JAHMA TRIBE ABBA YESEHAQ TEACH US ABOUT.YOU THINK IS A JOKE.?LIVES ARE HERE AT STEAK.FIRE PON ABORTION AND PROPAGANDA...ALL OF AFRIKA IS ETHIOPIA..ITS A CONTINENT HISTORICALLY.SURELY RASTA CAN TEACH ETHIOPIANS...RIGHT NOW WE TEACHING HABESHA KIDS IN BOSTON WHO LOST THEIR IDENTITY BECAUSE THEY BORN IN ENGLISH COUNTRY SO THEY NUST STUDY WITH RASTA WHO ABBA YESEHAQ PRINT ENGLISH PRAYER BOOKS TO UNDERSTAND THE AMHARIC LITURGY AT HAILE SELASSIE EXPENSES...GOOD OVER EVILL.AND WE WILL FIGHT IF WE FINF IT NECESSARY TO PROTECT OUR EOTC IN KINGSTON JAMAICA.GO AWAY satan.THE LORD REBUKE thee.one black love to all today.

JAH! RASTAFARI!

IGZEBHIER AMASSAGAN!

BESEME AB, WE WOLDE, WE MENFES QIDUS, AHADU AMLAK, -AMIN-

Selam
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« Reply #64 on: November 09, 2011, 04:09:05 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!




I have known several Ethiopians and Rastafarians in my life. I have not known any Ethiopian Rastafarians (by which I mean Rastafrians of indigenous stock, not the immigrants who live in Ethiopia; Amhara Rastafarians, Oromo Rastafarians, Tigre Rastafarians, Sidaamo Rastafarians, etc). In fact, the two populations seem to mix about as well as oil and water. If I had to guess as to why this is, I would say that there is enough REAL religion and REAL history in Ethiopia that they probably don't have any need for any westerners' fake recasting of their country and its history and its religions. And I don't blame them. Orthodoxy, after all, is true, and Rastafarianism certainly is not. That's something I'm fairly certain Gebre would agree with, regardless of his affinities for the Rastafarian cult that I will openly admit I cannot even begin to understand.

I have, there are many dreadlocked and Rastafarian Ethiopians popping up here and there, and these are like Brother Gebre Menfes Kidus and myself, who venerate the Emperor as opposed to worship.  You are quite correct that many Rastafari peoples have many misconceptions about Ethiopia, but you must admire their faith and patriotism, when Ethiopians are BEGGING to leave their motherland, Rastafari peoples are begging to get let in! We are a testimony to Ethiopians that they should not further contribute to Ethiopia's brain drain, that the West is a facade and a myth, and that Ethiopia is Ethiopians homeland, land they should stay there!  We have called these folks "the careless Ethiopians who go down to Babylon" and this has been simply shocking to me as an Africanist.  If all the educated, wealthy Ethiopians expatriate to the US and Europe, what do they leave behind in their precious Motherland? In Ethiopia, 2/3 of all native-born physicians practice medicine abroad, meanwhile there are less than 200 OB-GYN for a nation of over 35,000,000 women and girls? That is a far more shocking statistic than any Rastafari peoples misusing the Emperor's name Wink  

What is the harm of Rastafari peoples idealizing and relocating to Ethiopia, if in the long run it is provoking Ethiopians to jealousy like Romans 11 and causing them so reaffirm their own cultural, historical, and political identity?  While Rastafari peoples indeed have a lot of realistic things to learn from Ethiopians, surely there are mutual things we can learn from each other.  


Quote from: Hiwot
Selam to all,

OK in the hope of correcting the kind of blasphemy  which is sickening and yet that masquerades itself as something right and that needs to be openly rejected and condemned I will give the meaning of those words that  Gebre seems to mistakenly believe  that Rastafari= to head of creation. Gebre by your definition if ras is head which is true but is only a princely title, then teferi must be creation which in reality it is not, not even remotely close by any etymology of the term. infact here is the meaning of Teferi. the root word is ' ferehat'/ Fear and  the other words derived from it are ' feri'/ coward/  , Asferi/ terrifying/( a word used for events , animals, objects , ideas) whereas when one wants to use it to a person's relation to others we use the word Teferi/ one who is feared by others,terrifying/ it is also related to being respected when it is used as a persons name, and this has mostly to do with being a warrior. now the other false interpretation or more like a rationalisation of former affection, is to say the term JAH only refers to jan-hoye, which is the Ethiopian colloquial way of saying "O King" for the king, how on earth did this traditional term used only for MEN who have become kings, suddenly become distorted by some to mean The LORD JEHOVA? which is what JAH means. Lord have mercy!!! I tremble for those who would dare to say such a thing! I find this most distressing and repulsive.



Now we have cleared that up, I hope in all honesty all those who call themselves members of the Orthodox Church need to abandon any form of former idolatry either hidden in their baggage, or mistakenly still Carry with themselves as a jewellery of sorts. ( Genesis 31:19-35,When Laban had gone to shear his sheep, Rachel stole her father’s household gods.....  But why did you steal my gods?”


 private veneration of a faithful departed should be done in the proper christian manner and in private. anythingelse is foreign to the Apostolic Tradition of the Church. however Idolatry is indirect opposition to everything we believe in and hold dear.


yes, you have correctly pointed out a common Rastafari misconception, but you also were aware that many Rastafari folks speak Amharic and know the corrections? Further, in the concept of Ras Tafari, this phrase has a dual meaning.  The literal meaning is "Head Feared-One" as you've already pointed out, so some folks are merely affirming that God is one to be Feared.  Folks like myself, who do not worship but do continue venerate the Emperor, use this term to acknowledge that it is through the Person of Ras Tafari, who is HIM Haile Selassie I, that God Almighty perpetuates His Divine Theocratic Order of Creation, that the modern, colonial, Babylonian world is a merely a facade, a dirty mirror like Paul mentioned, but the Truth of God is remaining in His Kingdom and through David His servant.  On my wall is a poster made by Ethiopian patriots (not Rastas) which has pictures of HIM with dozens of key world leaders, and you know that to this day HIM is the most widely traveled Head of State, having visited the leaders of almost EVERY SINGLE country of HIM time? We in Rastafari acknowledge HIM as the seat of Divine Authority, even in secular governments of the world, and all this secular authority is almost superstitiously attributed to the Throne and Person of HIM, but God's Grace, hence why the Emperor is titled "Elect of God" and "Light of This World", the this emphasizing that HIM authority is temporal and contemporary.  So when some of us chant up Rastafari, we are acknowledge that God sets the world in its order, and HIM is part of the turning that sacred, cosmic Wheel.

You know we didn't shorten Jah from Janhoy, that is literally a linguistic coincidence, Rastafari people use the term JAH from their good KJV Bibles, Psalms 68:4, which reads "Jah" instead of the Hebrew "Yah".  We were using this term before we even knew who HIM was, back when the pioneer Elders of Rastafari in colonial Jamaica were organizing around Marcus Mosiah Garvey's movement in the bush while venerating the memory of Atse Menelik II, who brought Abyssinianism into the black world when he succeeded against the Italians, and became a bastion for black independence worldwide.  We knew about Abyssinia long before HIM coronation, which is precisely why we still use the pre-coronation "Ras Tafari" because our relationship with HIM Haile Selassie I is from the 1920s as HIM stepped up as Ras and then Negus Tafari, stepping up towards the Throne in God's Good Grace.


Now as to your accusations of blasphemy, you should be careful.  The Bishops and priests who baptize and fellowship with we, thousands of Rastafari members of the Orthodox Church, have not been as strictly vocal about this as you, maybe we could learn by their Apostolic example rather then our own arguments? Only God can convert the hearts of blasphemy, your thoughtful arguments won't convince anyone, it will only put folks on the defense.  Rather, the Orthodox stands true, and HIM sent the Orthodox precisely to the Rastafari people to sort out all these misconceptions.  If HIM can personally step off the plane, meet and great thousands of Rastafari peoples, and then proceed to a conference with the Rastafari Elders that lasted several hours, where HIM awarded several Elders with Medals and Honorific positions, while HIM personally choreographed what would become the founding of the first Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church Archdiocese and Bishopric outside of African and Jerusalem, and where as it founded? Not in New York, or DC, or London, or any of these places, it was founded in Trinidad! I applaud your sincerity, but you might be a bit over zealous, and as we in Rastafari say, "Them got the zeal but them got the wrong ideal."
The link below shows a very rare video of a fairly complete liturgy celebrated by Pope Kyrillos VI.  As you know Pope Kyrillos and HIM had a tremendous bond of affection.  Everyone was always naked before Pope Kyrillos, he saw straight through the souls of all who stood before him. So for me, Pope Kyrillos' great love for HIM says much.

Go to the beginning of the video starting around 1:56 and you can see Pope Kyrillos and HIM standing next to each other with arms locked together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O06mE21xiM&feature=share

In Christ,
Fr. Kyrillos
Simply gorgeous, thank you for posting this Father it moves me so deeply to see Janhoy and His Holiness sincerely embracing like fond brothers I dare say it even looks like the are comforting each other in the hectic environment of the crowd, like nervous siblings or even a child with HIM parents (HH being the Father, HIM being the child),.  It is so crucial to post things like this, which is why I posted this thread, because folks need to see HIM from the Orthodox lens, and stop letting Rastafari mix them up, Rastafari culture is for Rastafari people, but HIM is for everybody Smiley

Selassie I Jah!

I have no problem with the royal titles bestowed upon HIM. They are by no means unique to the Ethiopian monarchy.

However, the phrase "Selassie I Jah" is blasphemy. Haile Selassie was a mere man, not Jah. I know Selassie means Trinity, the Trinity is, of course, Jah. But "Selassie I" is the title given to Tafari Makonen. Those who shout "Selassie I Jah" or "Jah Rastafari" are not Orthodox but the worshippers of men.

You simply misunderstand our unique, Rastafari nomenclature.  Just as we in Rastafari practice a concept of "I-speak" (which is a way of changing all the first letters of words to "I" to emphasize the "I-ity/unity" of all Creation and hence the inherent equality of all things) we also have very particular ways of addressing names and titles.  In Rastafari we also bear the names "Jah", for example a good brother of mine is known internationally as "Jah Faith" and many folks know me as "Jah Chris" and many many of the Elders of Rastafari bear these titles.  We are not calling each other as God specifically, we are referencing that God is within us all equally being created as humans in His Image.  So when I call brother Jah Faith by this title, I am acknowledging that God dwells in this brother, as He dwells in us all.  So when we in Rastafari apply this title towards HIM, we are not all necessarily affirming HIM as God Incarnate rather we are acknowledging that God is in HIM as God is in us all.  True, many Rastafari folks acknowledge HIM as "Jah" implying HIM is God Almighty, but that is their misconception, in the origins and roots and etymologies of Rastafari culture this is simply not the case.  We have been calling each other "Jah" for over 70 years now, and when those of us in this category call HIM "Selassie I Jah" we are reaffirming the power of God cooperating in the Synergy of the Holy Spirit in the Personality of HIM.  HIM, as THE Universal Christian sovereign, is the source of the "Jah" titles among human beings, because a the Emperor, HIM is the seat of Divine Authority on the Earth.  We look to HIM to see God cooperating in synergy with world affairs and governments, and so we rightfully site HIM as the first "Jah".  I would be silly to say that many many Rastafari peoples do not see HIM as God, but it would be equally misrepresenting to assume that ALL folks who are Rastafari and use these terms are saying this, Rastafari is a diverse movement.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #65 on: November 09, 2011, 04:10:49 PM »

BLESSED BE ABUNA YESEHAQ,EMISSARY OF HIS MAJESTY HAILE SELASSIE 1...BLESSED BE HAILE SELASSIE THE GREATEST TEACHER AND KINDEST WHO ASSOCIATED WITH REJECTED EXILED HUMAN BEINGS SEEKING IDENTITY,THE RASTAS,WHO WERE SCSRRED BY WRETCHED NESS OF WESTERN CIVILATIONS AND IN GOD SIGHT NEED CONSOLATION TODAY.ETHIOPIANS ARE AN UNGRATEFUL SOCIETY AND PROVEN TO BE POLITICISED  CHRISTIANS SINCE THEY REJECTED THE WORDS OF ABBA YESEHAQ THE BISHOP OF RASTAFARIANS,WHO WARNED NOT TO ELECT 2 PATRIARCHS AND THAT IS BIGGEST BLASPHEMY ERODING THE CHURCH.YES ETHIOPIA BELONG TO THE AFRO AMERICANS YU SEE IN THE GARBAGE BINS,HOME LESS,FACING PREJUDICES ,BECAUSE THEIR BROTHERS SOLD THEM FOR RICE AND PEAS.BLESSED BE THE SYMPATHISERS OF OTHER RACES WHO EMBRACE ETHIOPIA AS A SYMBOL OF DEFENCE AS THE EMPEROR WAS FATHER TO ALL NATIONS AND ABBA YESEHAQ BAPTISED ALL NATIONS OF TYHE EARTH UNDER RASTAFARI WAY OF LIFE.RASTAFARI IS A AWY OF LIFE.ITS JAMAICAN.ETHIOPIANS CANNOT EXPLAIN IT.ITS A WAY OF LIFE NOW FOR PPL WORLWIDE TO KEEP ONE FROM WRONG LIVING AS WE R ALL SINNERS AND SAME ORTHODOX CLEAN CUT ETHIOPIANS ASSISSINATE MONKS IN CHURCH AS ABBA PAULOS DID FEKADE SELASSIE WITH HIS IVOTY HANDLE PISTOL AFTER THE MONK TOLD HIM HE IS ILLEGALLY ELECTED.TELL THE CORRUPT SYNOD IN ADDIS TO STOP SENDING POLICE N GUN MEN TO JAMAICA CHURCH AS ANGLICAN AND CATHOLIC CHURCHES SUBMITTING LETTERS NOW TO PUT BABYLON IN OUR CHURCH AS WOLVES AS OUR BISHOP WAS POISONED BY HIS OWN PEOPLE OF HABESHA STOCK IN DALLAS TX.I PERSONALLY PICKED HIM UP AT AIRPORT IN NJ ,VOMITTING BLOOD BECAUSE HE DEFENDS RASTAFARIANS AND THE EMPEROR THE REAL CHRISTIAN WAY WITH LOVE.ETHIOPIANS STEREO YYPE PLL AND R ETHNIC ALOTT.NOT GOOD CHRISTIANS.THEY NEVER RECEIVE HOLY COMMUNION BUT THE KIDS AND OLD...AND WHEN YU COME TO THE WESTERN BORN CHURCH YU SEE RASTAFARIANS AND FAMILIES RECEIVING COMMUNION.GO STUDY WHO RASTAFARI IS AND LEARN BEFORE YOU JUDGE.THE LANGUAGE BARRIER IS WHAT IT IS.WHEN DEAMONS ATTACK ME ONE DAY RASTAFARI JAH WAS ONE WORD I DISCOVERED CHASED DEVILS AWAY..HOW CAN GOD HOUSE BE DIVIDED.NO ONE CAN STOP IT NOW.ITS A MYSTERY.VAIN MEN MUST OBSERVE THIS.THE RASTAFARIANS AND HARLOTS ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN BEFORE MANY OF THE PEOPLE IN BIG CHRISTIAN POSITIONS BECAUSE THEY SEEKING IDENTITY DENIED BY STEREOTYPE,AND THEY R SINCERE TO FIND THEIR SAVIOUR.LET CHRIST REMEMBER US IN HIS MERCY.JAH RAS TAFARI///YHE HEAD I FEAR...CHRIST TAFARI...CHRIST WHO I FEAR...YESUS TAFARI YESUS WHO I FEAR....ITS A JAMAICAN THING ..ONLY A JAMAICAN ACN CROSS IT...AND INTRODUCE IT TO THE WORLD.....BEHOLD ST ELIAS IS NOW IN ETHIOPIA AWAITING HIS WORK ON EARTH FOR 4 YRS..LOVE EVERYONE..THE BROTHERS N SISTERS IN SHASHEMANE NEED A HOME IN AFRICA AND THE GOV TOOK THE LAND GRANT AFTER 70 YRS.WE BUILT SCHOOLS N BUSINESS SO THE YOUNG GIRLS DONT TURN TO PROSTITUTION FOR SURVIVAL AND MOST R CHRISTIANS TOO WITH HIV..OF COURSE ETHIOPIA ,A BACKWARD COUNTRY LIKE THAT NEEDS FOREIGNERS WHO WAS STOLEN BY AHMEH GRAHN AND SOLD TO EUROPEANS FOR SLAVERY..THE JAHMA TRIBE ABBA YESEHAQ TEACH US ABOUT.YOU THINK IS A JOKE.?LIVES ARE HERE AT STEAK.FIRE PON ABORTION AND PROPAGANDA...ALL OF AFRIKA IS ETHIOPIA..ITS A CONTINENT HISTORICALLY.SURELY RASTA CAN TEACH ETHIOPIANS...RIGHT NOW WE TEACHING HABESHA KIDS IN BOSTON WHO LOST THEIR IDENTITY BECAUSE THEY BORN IN ENGLISH COUNTRY SO THEY NUST STUDY WITH RASTA WHO ABBA YESEHAQ PRINT ENGLISH PRAYER BOOKS TO UNDERSTAND THE AMHARIC LITURGY AT HAILE SELASSIE EXPENSES...GOOD OVER EVILL.AND WE WILL FIGHT IF WE FINF IT NECESSARY TO PROTECT OUR EOTC IN KINGSTON JAMAICA.GO AWAY satan.THE LORD REBUKE thee.one black love to all today.


ewwwwwww, here it goes it getts better and better,
I sugest you refrain from using  the name of HH Abuna Yesehaq of Blessed memory and lie , you are not Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo member, and I will not sit by while you Scandalise my Church and my Faith, You are a racist bigot, who can not see a man beyond the color of his skin. I can not even bring to finish reading the filth you just spewed out of your malicious blaspheming mouth and heart. be aware of the curse you invite upon yourself.
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« Reply #66 on: November 09, 2011, 04:17:51 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

BLESSED BE ABUNA YESEHAQ,EMISSARY OF HIS MAJESTY HAILE SELASSIE 1...BLESSED BE HAILE SELASSIE THE GREATEST TEACHER AND KINDEST WHO ASSOCIATED WITH REJECTED EXILED HUMAN BEINGS SEEKING IDENTITY,THE RASTAS,WHO WERE SCSRRED BY WRETCHED NESS OF WESTERN CIVILATIONS AND IN GOD SIGHT NEED CONSOLATION TODAY.ETHIOPIANS ARE AN UNGRATEFUL SOCIETY AND PROVEN TO BE POLITICISED  CHRISTIANS SINCE THEY REJECTED THE WORDS OF ABBA YESEHAQ THE BISHOP OF RASTAFARIANS,WHO WARNED NOT TO ELECT 2 PATRIARCHS AND THAT IS BIGGEST BLASPHEMY ERODING THE CHURCH.YES ETHIOPIA BELONG TO THE AFRO AMERICANS YU SEE IN THE GARBAGE BINS,HOME LESS,FACING PREJUDICES ,BECAUSE THEIR BROTHERS SOLD THEM FOR RICE AND PEAS.BLESSED BE THE SYMPATHISERS OF OTHER RACES WHO EMBRACE ETHIOPIA AS A SYMBOL OF DEFENCE AS THE EMPEROR WAS FATHER TO ALL NATIONS AND ABBA YESEHAQ BAPTISED ALL NATIONS OF TYHE EARTH UNDER RASTAFARI WAY OF LIFE.RASTAFARI IS A AWY OF LIFE.ITS JAMAICAN.ETHIOPIANS CANNOT EXPLAIN IT.ITS A WAY OF LIFE NOW FOR PPL WORLWIDE TO KEEP ONE FROM WRONG LIVING AS WE R ALL SINNERS AND SAME ORTHODOX CLEAN CUT ETHIOPIANS ASSISSINATE MONKS IN CHURCH AS ABBA PAULOS DID FEKADE SELASSIE WITH HIS IVOTY HANDLE PISTOL AFTER THE MONK TOLD HIM HE IS ILLEGALLY ELECTED.TELL THE CORRUPT SYNOD IN ADDIS TO STOP SENDING POLICE N GUN MEN TO JAMAICA CHURCH AS ANGLICAN AND CATHOLIC CHURCHES SUBMITTING LETTERS NOW TO PUT BABYLON IN OUR CHURCH AS WOLVES AS OUR BISHOP WAS POISONED BY HIS OWN PEOPLE OF HABESHA STOCK IN DALLAS TX.I PERSONALLY PICKED HIM UP AT AIRPORT IN NJ ,VOMITTING BLOOD BECAUSE HE DEFENDS RASTAFARIANS AND THE EMPEROR THE REAL CHRISTIAN WAY WITH LOVE.ETHIOPIANS STEREO YYPE PLL AND R ETHNIC ALOTT.NOT GOOD CHRISTIANS.THEY NEVER RECEIVE HOLY COMMUNION BUT THE KIDS AND OLD...AND WHEN YU COME TO THE WESTERN BORN CHURCH YU SEE RASTAFARIANS AND FAMILIES RECEIVING COMMUNION.GO STUDY WHO RASTAFARI IS AND LEARN BEFORE YOU JUDGE.THE LANGUAGE BARRIER IS WHAT IT IS.WHEN DEAMONS ATTACK ME ONE DAY RASTAFARI JAH WAS ONE WORD I DISCOVERED CHASED DEVILS AWAY..HOW CAN GOD HOUSE BE DIVIDED.NO ONE CAN STOP IT NOW.ITS A MYSTERY.VAIN MEN MUST OBSERVE THIS.THE RASTAFARIANS AND HARLOTS ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN BEFORE MANY OF THE PEOPLE IN BIG CHRISTIAN POSITIONS BECAUSE THEY SEEKING IDENTITY DENIED BY STEREOTYPE,AND THEY R SINCERE TO FIND THEIR SAVIOUR.LET CHRIST REMEMBER US IN HIS MERCY.JAH RAS TAFARI///YHE HEAD I FEAR...CHRIST TAFARI...CHRIST WHO I FEAR...YESUS TAFARI YESUS WHO I FEAR....ITS A JAMAICAN THING ..ONLY A JAMAICAN ACN CROSS IT...AND INTRODUCE IT TO THE WORLD.....BEHOLD ST ELIAS IS NOW IN ETHIOPIA AWAITING HIS WORK ON EARTH FOR 4 YRS..LOVE EVERYONE..THE BROTHERS N SISTERS IN SHASHEMANE NEED A HOME IN AFRICA AND THE GOV TOOK THE LAND GRANT AFTER 70 YRS.WE BUILT SCHOOLS N BUSINESS SO THE YOUNG GIRLS DONT TURN TO PROSTITUTION FOR SURVIVAL AND MOST R CHRISTIANS TOO WITH HIV..OF COURSE ETHIOPIA ,A BACKWARD COUNTRY LIKE THAT NEEDS FOREIGNERS WHO WAS STOLEN BY AHMEH GRAHN AND SOLD TO EUROPEANS FOR SLAVERY..THE JAHMA TRIBE ABBA YESEHAQ TEACH US ABOUT.YOU THINK IS A JOKE.?LIVES ARE HERE AT STEAK.FIRE PON ABORTION AND PROPAGANDA...ALL OF AFRIKA IS ETHIOPIA..ITS A CONTINENT HISTORICALLY.SURELY RASTA CAN TEACH ETHIOPIANS...RIGHT NOW WE TEACHING HABESHA KIDS IN BOSTON WHO LOST THEIR IDENTITY BECAUSE THEY BORN IN ENGLISH COUNTRY SO THEY NUST STUDY WITH RASTA WHO ABBA YESEHAQ PRINT ENGLISH PRAYER BOOKS TO UNDERSTAND THE AMHARIC LITURGY AT HAILE SELASSIE EXPENSES...GOOD OVER EVILL.AND WE WILL FIGHT IF WE FINF IT NECESSARY TO PROTECT OUR EOTC IN KINGSTON JAMAICA.GO AWAY satan.THE LORD REBUKE thee.one black love to all today.


ewwwwwww, here it goes it getts better and better,
I sugest you refrain from using  the name of HH Abuna Yesehaq of Blessed memory and lie , you are not Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo member, and I will not sit by while you Scandalise my Church and my Faith, You are a racist bigot, who can not see a man beyond the color of his skin. I can not even bring to finish reading the filth you just spewed out of your malicious blaspheming mouth and heart. be aware of the curse you invite upon yourself.


Are you threw insulting the legacy of HH Abune Yesehaq, who loved and adored thousands of Rastafari peoples, including ALL the Elders of the movement who the first the embrace Tewahedo in the 1970s, and up until HH last breath, was preaching the Truth of Orthodox in the midst of schism and miscommunication.  HH ordained my own father-confessor, and HH baptized several of my friends, we knew HH personally, and you shouldn't be so arrogant as to assume that you have proper ownership of HH legacy simply because you are Ethiopian, and we are not, because that was not what HH was about, and therefore it is YOU sister who are misrepresenting HH, not we.

You seem to have a lot of ignorance about the tangible history between HIM, the Ethiopian Church, and the Rastafari movement, maybe you would be better to ask questions rather than make mean-spirited and dismissive accusations?

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #67 on: November 09, 2011, 04:20:50 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!




I have known several Ethiopians and Rastafarians in my life. I have not known any Ethiopian Rastafarians (by which I mean Rastafrians of indigenous stock, not the immigrants who live in Ethiopia; Amhara Rastafarians, Oromo Rastafarians, Tigre Rastafarians, Sidaamo Rastafarians, etc). In fact, the two populations seem to mix about as well as oil and water. If I had to guess as to why this is, I would say that there is enough REAL religion and REAL history in Ethiopia that they probably don't have any need for any westerners' fake recasting of their country and its history and its religions. And I don't blame them. Orthodoxy, after all, is true, and Rastafarianism certainly is not. That's something I'm fairly certain Gebre would agree with, regardless of his affinities for the Rastafarian cult that I will openly admit I cannot even begin to understand.

I have, there are many dreadlocked and Rastafarian Ethiopians popping up here and there, and these are like Brother Gebre Menfes Kidus and myself, who venerate the Emperor as opposed to worship.  You are quite correct that many Rastafari peoples have many misconceptions about Ethiopia, but you must admire their faith and patriotism, when Ethiopians are BEGGING to leave their motherland, Rastafari peoples are begging to get let in! We are a testimony to Ethiopians that they should not further contribute to Ethiopia's brain drain, that the West is a facade and a myth, and that Ethiopia is Ethiopians homeland, land they should stay there!  We have called these folks "the careless Ethiopians who go down to Babylon" and this has been simply shocking to me as an Africanist.  If all the educated, wealthy Ethiopians expatriate to the US and Europe, what do they leave behind in their precious Motherland? In Ethiopia, 2/3 of all native-born physicians practice medicine abroad, meanwhile there are less than 200 OB-GYN for a nation of over 35,000,000 women and girls? That is a far more shocking statistic than any Rastafari peoples misusing the Emperor's name Wink  

What is the harm of Rastafari peoples idealizing and relocating to Ethiopia, if in the long run it is provoking Ethiopians to jealousy like Romans 11 and causing them so reaffirm their own cultural, historical, and political identity?  While Rastafari peoples indeed have a lot of realistic things to learn from Ethiopians, surely there are mutual things we can learn from each other.  


Quote from: Hiwot
Selam to all,

OK in the hope of correcting the kind of blasphemy  which is sickening and yet that masquerades itself as something right and that needs to be openly rejected and condemned I will give the meaning of those words that  Gebre seems to mistakenly believe  that Rastafari= to head of creation. Gebre by your definition if ras is head which is true but is only a princely title, then teferi must be creation which in reality it is not, not even remotely close by any etymology of the term. infact here is the meaning of Teferi. the root word is ' ferehat'/ Fear and  the other words derived from it are ' feri'/ coward/  , Asferi/ terrifying/( a word used for events , animals, objects , ideas) whereas when one wants to use it to a person's relation to others we use the word Teferi/ one who is feared by others,terrifying/ it is also related to being respected when it is used as a persons name, and this has mostly to do with being a warrior. now the other false interpretation or more like a rationalisation of former affection, is to say the term JAH only refers to jan-hoye, which is the Ethiopian colloquial way of saying "O King" for the king, how on earth did this traditional term used only for MEN who have become kings, suddenly become distorted by some to mean The LORD JEHOVA? which is what JAH means. Lord have mercy!!! I tremble for those who would dare to say such a thing! I find this most distressing and repulsive.



Now we have cleared that up, I hope in all honesty all those who call themselves members of the Orthodox Church need to abandon any form of former idolatry either hidden in their baggage, or mistakenly still Carry with themselves as a jewellery of sorts. ( Genesis 31:19-35,When Laban had gone to shear his sheep, Rachel stole her father’s household gods.....  But why did you steal my gods?”


 private veneration of a faithful departed should be done in the proper christian manner and in private. anythingelse is foreign to the Apostolic Tradition of the Church. however Idolatry is indirect opposition to everything we believe in and hold dear.


yes, you have correctly pointed out a common Rastafari misconception, but you also were aware that many Rastafari folks speak Amharic and know the corrections? Further, in the concept of Ras Tafari, this phrase has a dual meaning.  The literal meaning is "Head Feared-One" as you've already pointed out, so some folks are merely affirming that God is one to be Feared.  Folks like myself, who do not worship but do continue venerate the Emperor, use this term to acknowledge that it is through the Person of Ras Tafari, who is HIM Haile Selassie I, that God Almighty perpetuates His Divine Theocratic Order of Creation, that the modern, colonial, Babylonian world is a merely a facade, a dirty mirror like Paul mentioned, but the Truth of God is remaining in His Kingdom and through David His servant.  On my wall is a poster made by Ethiopian patriots (not Rastas) which has pictures of HIM with dozens of key world leaders, and you know that to this day HIM is the most widely traveled Head of State, having visited the leaders of almost EVERY SINGLE country of HIM time? We in Rastafari acknowledge HIM as the seat of Divine Authority, even in secular governments of the world, and all this secular authority is almost superstitiously attributed to the Throne and Person of HIM, but God's Grace, hence why the Emperor is titled "Elect of God" and "Light of This World", the this emphasizing that HIM authority is temporal and contemporary.  So when some of us chant up Rastafari, we are acknowledge that God sets the world in its order, and HIM is part of the turning that sacred, cosmic Wheel.

You know we didn't shorten Jah from Janhoy, that is literally a linguistic coincidence, Rastafari people use the term JAH from their good KJV Bibles, Psalms 68:4, which reads "Jah" instead of the Hebrew "Yah".  We were using this term before we even knew who HIM was, back when the pioneer Elders of Rastafari in colonial Jamaica were organizing around Marcus Mosiah Garvey's movement in the bush while venerating the memory of Atse Menelik II, who brought Abyssinianism into the black world when he succeeded against the Italians, and became a bastion for black independence worldwide.  We knew about Abyssinia long before HIM coronation, which is precisely why we still use the pre-coronation "Ras Tafari" because our relationship with HIM Haile Selassie I is from the 1920s as HIM stepped up as Ras and then Negus Tafari, stepping up towards the Throne in God's Good Grace.


Now as to your accusations of blasphemy, you should be careful.  The Bishops and priests who baptize and fellowship with we, thousands of Rastafari members of the Orthodox Church, have not been as strictly vocal about this as you, maybe we could learn by their Apostolic example rather then our own arguments? Only God can convert the hearts of blasphemy, your thoughtful arguments won't convince anyone, it will only put folks on the defense.  Rather, the Orthodox stands true, and HIM sent the Orthodox precisely to the Rastafari people to sort out all these misconceptions.  If HIM can personally step off the plane, meet and great thousands of Rastafari peoples, and then proceed to a conference with the Rastafari Elders that lasted several hours, where HIM awarded several Elders with Medals and Honorific positions, while HIM personally choreographed what would become the founding of the first Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church Archdiocese and Bishopric outside of African and Jerusalem, and where as it founded? Not in New York, or DC, or London, or any of these places, it was founded in Trinidad! I applaud your sincerity, but you might be a bit over zealous, and as we in Rastafari say, "Them got the zeal but them got the wrong ideal."
The link below shows a very rare video of a fairly complete liturgy celebrated by Pope Kyrillos VI.  As you know Pope Kyrillos and HIM had a tremendous bond of affection.  Everyone was always naked before Pope Kyrillos, he saw straight through the souls of all who stood before him. So for me, Pope Kyrillos' great love for HIM says much.

Go to the beginning of the video starting around 1:56 and you can see Pope Kyrillos and HIM standing next to each other with arms locked together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O06mE21xiM&feature=share

In Christ,
Fr. Kyrillos
Simply gorgeous, thank you for posting this Father it moves me so deeply to see Janhoy and His Holiness sincerely embracing like fond brothers I dare say it even looks like the are comforting each other in the hectic environment of the crowd, like nervous siblings or even a child with HIM parents (HH being the Father, HIM being the child),.  It is so crucial to post things like this, which is why I posted this thread, because folks need to see HIM from the Orthodox lens, and stop letting Rastafari mix them up, Rastafari culture is for Rastafari people, but HIM is for everybody Smiley

Selassie I Jah!

I have no problem with the royal titles bestowed upon HIM. They are by no means unique to the Ethiopian monarchy.

However, the phrase "Selassie I Jah" is blasphemy. Haile Selassie was a mere man, not Jah. I know Selassie means Trinity, the Trinity is, of course, Jah. But "Selassie I" is the title given to Tafari Makonen. Those who shout "Selassie I Jah" or "Jah Rastafari" are not Orthodox but the worshippers of men.

You simply misunderstand our unique, Rastafari nomenclature.  Just as we in Rastafari practice a concept of "I-speak" (which is a way of changing all the first letters of words to "I" to emphasize the "I-ity/unity" of all Creation and hence the inherent equality of all things) we also have very particular ways of addressing names and titles.  In Rastafari we also bear the names "Jah", for example a good brother of mine is known internationally as "Jah Faith" and many folks know me as "Jah Chris" and many many of the Elders of Rastafari bear these titles.  We are not calling each other as God specifically, we are referencing that God is within us all equally being created as humans in His Image.  So when I call brother Jah Faith by this title, I am acknowledging that God dwells in this brother, as He dwells in us all.  So when we in Rastafari apply this title towards HIM, we are not all necessarily affirming HIM as God Incarnate rather we are acknowledging that God is in HIM as God is in us all.  True, many Rastafari folks acknowledge HIM as "Jah" implying HIM is God Almighty, but that is their misconception, in the origins and roots and etymologies of Rastafari culture this is simply not the case.  We have been calling each other "Jah" for over 70 years now, and when those of us in this category call HIM "Selassie I Jah" we are reaffirming the power of God cooperating in the Synergy of the Holy Spirit in the Personality of HIM.  HIM, as THE Universal Christian sovereign, is the source of the "Jah" titles among human beings, because a the Emperor, HIM is the seat of Divine Authority on the Earth.  We look to HIM to see God cooperating in synergy with world affairs and governments, and so we rightfully site HIM as the first "Jah".  I would be silly to say that many many Rastafari peoples do not see HIM as God, but it would be equally misrepresenting to assume that ALL folks who are Rastafari and use these terms are saying this, Rastafari is a diverse movement.

stay blessed,
habte selassie


Give thanks for these blessed words of wisdom and clarification! I hope and pray that others will humble themselves and give InI the benefit of the doubt. Let us all strive to put divisions aside and unite in Orthodox brotherly love. As the Psalmist said:

"Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!" [Psalm 133:1]


Selam
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« Reply #68 on: November 09, 2011, 04:23:23 PM »

Now I'm the one who is sad. Gebre, your brother has preached all kinds of nonsense (and LOUDLY, IN ALL CAPS WITH NO PARAGRAPH SPACES) there, in the name of defending the EOTC in Jamaica!  "Only Jamaicans" can understand (cross?) it, and it's "one black love" to all (somehow!). Where is the evangelization here, either to him from you (to correct his errors), or from him to us, if he is somehow Orthodox? I don't recognize anything like the Orthodoxy I am being taught in the Coptic Orthodox church in what he has written. We do not involve ourselves in politics, telling other nations that they are ungrateful or bad, nor has anyone ever told me that I cannot be Orthodox because I am not an ethnic Copt. To the contrary!

What IS this? Is this Orthodoxy, or black nationalism in Orthodox vestments?

What a load of garbage! I'm sorry...I can't stomach this for even a second. If that jumbled mess of nationalism and exclusionary thinking is Orthodoxy then I might as well go back to being Roman Catholic.  Undecided

Amma Syncletica has told us that just as it is impossible to be both at the same time a seed and a plant, it is impossible to be surrounded by the things of the world and the city and be holy. But I can see that some want a political and racial utopia on earth even still (and what's more see some sort of bizarre, prophetic work for their people and race in it). How sad. That's not the church, is it? Rather, what was it again that the psalmist told us? "Do not trust in princes"? Maybe that does not apply in the Rastadox mind to Haile Selassie, but that is more proof to me that the two don't mix.

I'm disgusted now. I must leave this thread rather than let the passions overtake me. Peace.
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« Reply #69 on: November 09, 2011, 04:27:32 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

BLESSED BE ABUNA YESEHAQ,EMISSARY OF HIS MAJESTY HAILE SELASSIE 1...BLESSED BE HAILE SELASSIE THE GREATEST TEACHER AND KINDEST WHO ASSOCIATED WITH REJECTED EXILED HUMAN BEINGS SEEKING IDENTITY,THE RASTAS,WHO WERE SCSRRED BY WRETCHED NESS OF WESTERN CIVILATIONS AND IN GOD SIGHT NEED CONSOLATION TODAY.ETHIOPIANS ARE AN UNGRATEFUL SOCIETY AND PROVEN TO BE POLITICISED  CHRISTIANS SINCE THEY REJECTED THE WORDS OF ABBA YESEHAQ THE BISHOP OF RASTAFARIANS,WHO WARNED NOT TO ELECT 2 PATRIARCHS AND THAT IS BIGGEST BLASPHEMY ERODING THE CHURCH.YES ETHIOPIA BELONG TO THE AFRO AMERICANS YU SEE IN THE GARBAGE BINS,HOME LESS,FACING PREJUDICES ,BECAUSE THEIR BROTHERS SOLD THEM FOR RICE AND PEAS.BLESSED BE THE SYMPATHISERS OF OTHER RACES WHO EMBRACE ETHIOPIA AS A SYMBOL OF DEFENCE AS THE EMPEROR WAS FATHER TO ALL NATIONS AND ABBA YESEHAQ BAPTISED ALL NATIONS OF TYHE EARTH UNDER RASTAFARI WAY OF LIFE.RASTAFARI IS A AWY OF LIFE.ITS JAMAICAN.ETHIOPIANS CANNOT EXPLAIN IT.ITS A WAY OF LIFE NOW FOR PPL WORLWIDE TO KEEP ONE FROM WRONG LIVING AS WE R ALL SINNERS AND SAME ORTHODOX CLEAN CUT ETHIOPIANS ASSISSINATE MONKS IN CHURCH AS ABBA PAULOS DID FEKADE SELASSIE WITH HIS IVOTY HANDLE PISTOL AFTER THE MONK TOLD HIM HE IS ILLEGALLY ELECTED.TELL THE CORRUPT SYNOD IN ADDIS TO STOP SENDING POLICE N GUN MEN TO JAMAICA CHURCH AS ANGLICAN AND CATHOLIC CHURCHES SUBMITTING LETTERS NOW TO PUT BABYLON IN OUR CHURCH AS WOLVES AS OUR BISHOP WAS POISONED BY HIS OWN PEOPLE OF HABESHA STOCK IN DALLAS TX.I PERSONALLY PICKED HIM UP AT AIRPORT IN NJ ,VOMITTING BLOOD BECAUSE HE DEFENDS RASTAFARIANS AND THE EMPEROR THE REAL CHRISTIAN WAY WITH LOVE.ETHIOPIANS STEREO YYPE PLL AND R ETHNIC ALOTT.NOT GOOD CHRISTIANS.THEY NEVER RECEIVE HOLY COMMUNION BUT THE KIDS AND OLD...AND WHEN YU COME TO THE WESTERN BORN CHURCH YU SEE RASTAFARIANS AND FAMILIES RECEIVING COMMUNION.GO STUDY WHO RASTAFARI IS AND LEARN BEFORE YOU JUDGE.THE LANGUAGE BARRIER IS WHAT IT IS.WHEN DEAMONS ATTACK ME ONE DAY RASTAFARI JAH WAS ONE WORD I DISCOVERED CHASED DEVILS AWAY..HOW CAN GOD HOUSE BE DIVIDED.NO ONE CAN STOP IT NOW.ITS A MYSTERY.VAIN MEN MUST OBSERVE THIS.THE RASTAFARIANS AND HARLOTS ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN BEFORE MANY OF THE PEOPLE IN BIG CHRISTIAN POSITIONS BECAUSE THEY SEEKING IDENTITY DENIED BY STEREOTYPE,AND THEY R SINCERE TO FIND THEIR SAVIOUR.LET CHRIST REMEMBER US IN HIS MERCY.JAH RAS TAFARI///YHE HEAD I FEAR...CHRIST TAFARI...CHRIST WHO I FEAR...YESUS TAFARI YESUS WHO I FEAR....ITS A JAMAICAN THING ..ONLY A JAMAICAN ACN CROSS IT...AND INTRODUCE IT TO THE WORLD.....BEHOLD ST ELIAS IS NOW IN ETHIOPIA AWAITING HIS WORK ON EARTH FOR 4 YRS..LOVE EVERYONE..THE BROTHERS N SISTERS IN SHASHEMANE NEED A HOME IN AFRICA AND THE GOV TOOK THE LAND GRANT AFTER 70 YRS.WE BUILT SCHOOLS N BUSINESS SO THE YOUNG GIRLS DONT TURN TO PROSTITUTION FOR SURVIVAL AND MOST R CHRISTIANS TOO WITH HIV..OF COURSE ETHIOPIA ,A BACKWARD COUNTRY LIKE THAT NEEDS FOREIGNERS WHO WAS STOLEN BY AHMEH GRAHN AND SOLD TO EUROPEANS FOR SLAVERY..THE JAHMA TRIBE ABBA YESEHAQ TEACH US ABOUT.YOU THINK IS A JOKE.?LIVES ARE HERE AT STEAK.FIRE PON ABORTION AND PROPAGANDA...ALL OF AFRIKA IS ETHIOPIA..ITS A CONTINENT HISTORICALLY.SURELY RASTA CAN TEACH ETHIOPIANS...RIGHT NOW WE TEACHING HABESHA KIDS IN BOSTON WHO LOST THEIR IDENTITY BECAUSE THEY BORN IN ENGLISH COUNTRY SO THEY NUST STUDY WITH RASTA WHO ABBA YESEHAQ PRINT ENGLISH PRAYER BOOKS TO UNDERSTAND THE AMHARIC LITURGY AT HAILE SELASSIE EXPENSES...GOOD OVER EVILL.AND WE WILL FIGHT IF WE FINF IT NECESSARY TO PROTECT OUR EOTC IN KINGSTON JAMAICA.GO AWAY satan.THE LORD REBUKE thee.one black love to all today.


ewwwwwww, here it goes it getts better and better,
I sugest you refrain from using  the name of HH Abuna Yesehaq of Blessed memory and lie , you are not Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo member, and I will not sit by while you Scandalise my Church and my Faith, You are a racist bigot, who can not see a man beyond the color of his skin. I can not even bring to finish reading the filth you just spewed out of your malicious blaspheming mouth and heart. be aware of the curse you invite upon yourself.


Are you threw insulting the legacy of HH Abune Yesehaq, who loved and adored thousands of Rastafari peoples, including ALL the Elders of the movement who the first the embrace Tewahedo in the 1970s, and up until HH last breath, was preaching the Truth of Orthodox in the midst of schism and miscommunication.  HH ordained my own father-confessor, and HH baptized several of my friends, we knew HH personally, and you shouldn't be so arrogant as to assume that you have proper ownership of HH legacy simply because you are Ethiopian, and we are not, because that was not what HH was about, and therefore it is YOU sister who are misrepresenting HH, not we.

You seem to have a lot of ignorance about the tangible history between HIM, the Ethiopian Church, and the Rastafari movement, maybe you would be better to ask questions rather than make mean-spirited and dismissive accusations?

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Amen!

Hiwot, how dare you accuse Ras Zacka of not being a baptized member of the EOTC?! I can tell you that our brother was a personal disciple of Abbatachin, and has perhaps done more than anyone else to maintain and promote the Tewahedo legacy and vision that Abuna Yesehaq promoted to his last breath! He is working this very day in Jamaica to defend the Faith and lead other Rastas to a saving knowledge of Eyesus Kristos and baptism into the Orthodox Tewahedo Church.

I do love you dear sister, but I strongly encourage you to cease with all of this judgment and condemnation towards your own Tewahedo brethren!


Selam
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« Reply #70 on: November 09, 2011, 04:30:22 PM »

Oh that you were private dear thread!
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 04:30:32 PM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #71 on: November 09, 2011, 04:33:22 PM »

Now I'm the one who is sad. Gebre, your brother has preached all kinds of nonsense (and LOUDLY, IN ALL CAPS WITH NO PARAGRAPH SPACES) there, in the name of defending the EOTC in Jamaica!  "Only Jamaicans" can understand (cross?) it, and it's "one black love" to all (somehow!). Where is the evangelization here, either to him from you (to correct his errors), or from him to us, if he is somehow Orthodox? I don't recognize anything like the Orthodoxy I am being taught in the Coptic Orthodox church in what he has written. We do not involve ourselves in politics, telling other nations that they are ungrateful or bad, nor has anyone ever told me that I cannot be Orthodox because I am not an ethnic Copt. To the contrary!

What IS this? Is this Orthodoxy, or black nationalism in Orthodox vestments?

What a load of garbage! I'm sorry...I can't stomach this for even a second. If that jumbled mess of nationalism and exclusionary thinking is Orthodoxy then I might as well go back to being Roman Catholic.  Undecided

Amma Syncletica has told us that just as it is impossible to be both at the same time a seed and a plant, it is impossible to be surrounded by the things of the world and the city and be holy. But I can see that some want a political and racial utopia on earth even still (and what's more see some sort of bizarre, prophetic work for their people and race in it). How sad. That's not the church, is it? Rather, what was it again that the psalmist told us? "Do not trust in princes"? Maybe that does not apply in the Rastadox mind to Haile Selassie, but that is more proof to me that the two don't mix.

I'm disgusted now. I must leave this thread rather than let the passions overtake me. Peace.

Do not expect those who are unfairly and slanderously attacked not to defend themselves. It does not discredit the brother simply because he writes in all caps. And who are any of you who have little or no knowledge of the Rastafari movement or of the ecclesiastical situation in Jamaica to discredit his comments? Again, some people need to humble themsleves and open their minds- or better yet, open their hearts.


Selam
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« Reply #72 on: November 09, 2011, 04:38:21 PM »

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP
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« Reply #73 on: November 09, 2011, 04:41:14 PM »

Now I'm the one who is sad. Gebre, your brother has preached all kinds of nonsense (and LOUDLY, IN ALL CAPS WITH NO PARAGRAPH SPACES) there, in the name of defending the EOTC in Jamaica!  "Only Jamaicans" can understand (cross?) it, and it's "one black love" to all (somehow!). Where is the evangelization here, either to him from you (to correct his errors), or from him to us, if he is somehow Orthodox? I don't recognize anything like the Orthodoxy I am being taught in the Coptic Orthodox church in what he has written. We do not involve ourselves in politics, telling other nations that they are ungrateful or bad, nor has anyone ever told me that I cannot be Orthodox because I am not an ethnic Copt. To the contrary!

What IS this? Is this Orthodoxy, or black nationalism in Orthodox vestments?

What a load of garbage! I'm sorry...I can't stomach this for even a second. If that jumbled mess of nationalism and exclusionary thinking is Orthodoxy then I might as well go back to being Roman Catholic.  Undecided

Amma Syncletica has told us that just as it is impossible to be both at the same time a seed and a plant, it is impossible to be surrounded by the things of the world and the city and be holy. But I can see that some want a political and racial utopia on earth even still (and what's more see some sort of bizarre, prophetic work for their people and race in it). How sad. That's not the church, is it? Rather, what was it again that the psalmist told us? "Do not trust in princes"? Maybe that does not apply in the Rastadox mind to Haile Selassie, but that is more proof to me that the two don't mix.

I'm disgusted now. I must leave this thread rather than let the passions overtake me. Peace.

Do not expect those who are unfairly and slanderously attacked not to defend themselves. It does not discredit the brother simply because he writes in all caps. And who are any of you who have little or no knowledge of the Rastafari movement or of the ecclesiastical situation in Jamaica to discredit his comments? Again, some people need to humble themsleves and open their minds- or better yet, open their hearts.


Selam


Gebre, if I may, it's hard to give credit or discredit something when you have extreme difficulty in understanding it.  It is up to the person communicating to make themselves understood and writing in all caps and in an extremely unorthodox English grammar (to the point of illegibility) on a predominately English language site is not going to prove anything.  I know little about Rastafarianism but I want to learn and am having difficulty doing so when I feel as if I'm being talked AT (not even TO) as I do when I read Ras Zacka's post.
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« Reply #74 on: November 09, 2011, 04:43:20 PM »

yes, you have correctly pointed out a common Rastafari misconception, but you also were aware that many Rastafari folks speak Amharic and know the corrections? Further, in the concept of Ras Tafari, this phrase has a dual meaning.  The literal meaning is "Head Feared-One" as you've already pointed out, so some folks are merely affirming that God is one to be Feared.  Folks like myself, who do not worship but do continue venerate the Emperor, use this term to acknowledge that it is through the Person of Ras Tafari, who is HIM Haile Selassie I, that God Almighty perpetuates His Divine Theocratic Order of Creation, that the modern, colonial, Babylonian world is a merely a facade, a dirty mirror like Paul mentioned, but the Truth of God is remaining in His Kingdom and through David His servant

Oh habte, this is completely grabbing straw definition you just gave which probably emanated after you have seen what I interpreted as his name, one you have already seen that Gebere's definition did not hold water. so you are trying to come up with a newly invented definition for the blasphemous term.  well if as you said those who understand the Amharic language have seen it, they would lough at the conclusion you just arrived at, but if they are orthodox they will be horrified by the so called misconception , misuse of language. unless ofc they are arrogant and continue to insist it does not matter, and it can be used either way, to which the orthodox church will say NO WAY to. there is no such dual meaning int he Rastafarian movement , the message is clear JAH RASTAFARI means rastafari IS JAH, this has been a time proven declaration of their faith. now you say it is to say that God is one to be feared, oh please by anyones linguistic deciphering ability this is clearly a distortion of language, what it is says is plain and clear. Jah -JEHOVA, Ras- Head  TAFARI - TERRIFYING  let us translate it then, JEHOVA is a terrifying Head! as silly as this is , still that is not what is being said by the Rastafarian's who originally coined the term as their Creed! and for you to say it is to say that the Almighty is the one that perpetuates ...... speech really another straw grabbing definition.  say what you like the fact remains JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI those rastafarians who say it will be asked to stop saying it if they intend to join the orthodox church, and those who still hang on to their idol then they too will be constantly 'reminded' that JAH ain't no RASTAFARI.

I have no issue with venerating the Emperor, however using that term to do so, whatever you say it means now, I am here to tell you it is not Orthodox! it is Rastafarian creed that snick in with the converts who still can not separate themselves from their former attachment. and dare to say JAH RASTAFARI!

As to the dreadlocks Ethiopians  I assure you its a fashion statement, none of them who know their history and have no fanciful ideas about the Emperor being a deity claim to be Rastafarian's in the manner you protray. it was not a dirty game to say words matter and just as we  the Orthodox do not say Paul is risen! we will never say JAH RASTAFARI.

as to Ethiopians leaving their country and needing an example to stay in their country. it just shows how little you know of the plight of Ethiopians or how you disregard it.  Ethiopians who love their mother land dearly , would not contemplate leave her and their beloved people had conditions not been a life and death situation. but I will not speak of this in here. continue to say oh Ethiopians who went to Babylon etc etc.  

Honestly speaking everyone can see what JAH RASTAFARI means, I can not go into another circular argument I already had with Gebere, I understand you share his views,  and my point to all that might see this is that The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church does reject such utter blasphemy.

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« Reply #75 on: November 09, 2011, 04:43:51 PM »

He lists Rastafarian before Orthodox. That's enough for me.

Okay, it was the all caps. I confess.

Why would his story be more trustworthy?
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« Reply #76 on: November 09, 2011, 04:44:18 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #77 on: November 09, 2011, 04:45:46 PM »

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

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Worse yet, hyaenas.
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« Reply #78 on: November 09, 2011, 04:47:52 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Meh, I can see where you're coming from. I guess its an Ethiopian thing because all I see is the caps ridden rambling incoherent mess from someone who must have about a 3rd grade grasp of English.

Oh, one black love yo....pfft  Roll Eyes


PP
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« Reply #79 on: November 09, 2011, 04:49:07 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

He ain't talking about whatever you are going on about which is RP^5. More the delight into getting into the discussion between LARPers and Ethiopians, the hyaenas have recourse to rhetoric that is only fit for private.
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« Reply #80 on: November 09, 2011, 04:50:33 PM »

He lists Rastafarian before Orthodox. That's enough for me.

Okay, it was the all caps. I confess.

Why would his story be more trustworthy?

It's a Rasta thing, you wouldn't Overstand!
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« Reply #81 on: November 09, 2011, 04:51:19 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Meh, I can see where you're coming from. I guess its an Ethiopian thing because all I see is the caps ridden rambling incoherent mess from someone who must have about a 3rd grade grasp of English.

Oh, one black love yo....pfft  Roll Eyes


PP

Please, that was very rude, the Brother actually posted some serious substance with insight, you're splitting the wrong hairs to insult the substance of his post simply by being the grammar nazis



stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #82 on: November 09, 2011, 04:54:18 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Meh, I can see where you're coming from. I guess its an Ethiopian thing because all I see is the caps ridden rambling incoherent mess from someone who must have about a 3rd grade grasp of English.

Oh, one black love yo....pfft  Roll Eyes


PP

Please, that was very rude, the Brother actually posted some serious substance with insight, you're splitting the wrong hairs to insult the substance of his post simply by being the grammar nazis



stay blessed,
habte selassie

Sheeeesh. Mods. Go. Private. I mean there is too much material here:

Split Hairs
Rude
Substance
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« Reply #83 on: November 09, 2011, 04:54:56 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Meh, I can see where you're coming from. I guess its an Ethiopian thing because all I see is the caps ridden rambling incoherent mess from someone who must have about a 3rd grade grasp of English.

Oh, one black love yo....pfft  Roll Eyes


PP

Please, that was very rude, the Brother actually posted some serious substance with insight, you're splitting the wrong hairs to insult the substance of his post simply by being the grammar nazis



stay blessed,
habte selassie

There is a marked difference between being a grammar nazi (eg enforcing the theyre/their/there distinctions) and literally struggling to understand someone because they refused to use punctuation and/or basic sentence structure.
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« Reply #84 on: November 09, 2011, 04:56:14 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Meh, I can see where you're coming from. I guess its an Ethiopian thing because all I see is the caps ridden rambling incoherent mess from someone who must have about a 3rd grade grasp of English.

Oh, one black love yo....pfft  Roll Eyes


PP

Please, that was very rude, the Brother actually posted some serious substance with insight, you're splitting the wrong hairs to insult the substance of his post simply by being the grammar nazis



stay blessed,
habte selassie

Sheeeesh. Mods. Go. Private. I mean there is too much material here:

Split Hairs
Rude
Substance
Wrapped in the bow of a holy greeting!

Oh, brother.

Seriously, do we know who this extremely credible 4 post guy is? I mean, I have 3,000 and no one ever listens to me.
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« Reply #85 on: November 09, 2011, 04:56:25 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Distortion distortion! goodness! what shameful thing to do, Racism has no place in Ethiopian orthodox church, those who preach it are not part of it period they excommunicate themselves, our Dogma will not be compromised by JAH RASTAFARI BS . Its sickening to hear all this straw grasping attempt at rationalising what can never ever be rationalised and trying to divert it to political issues that's even more disgusting!
 your friend came and spewed filth in the name of the blessed bishop, and the Orthodox Faith, God forgive you guys for supporting such filth as orthodox.
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« Reply #86 on: November 09, 2011, 04:57:58 PM »

Say what you want. I did read the whole thing. It was silly. Call me a grammar nazi, thats fine. it still does not take away from it being a incoherent rambling mess.
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« Reply #87 on: November 09, 2011, 05:04:23 PM »

There is a marked difference between being a grammar nazi (eg enforcing the theyre/their/there distinctions) and literally struggling to understand someone because they refused to use punctuation and/or basic sentence structure.

Completely agreed.  Gebre, you've nailed your colors to the mast, supporting that dross.

Edited some good stuff out.   Smiley

Against my better judgment, edited back in:

Hiwot, your defense of the Orthodox faith is commendable and has clearly touched some exposed nerves.  I wonder why the reaction?  Of course challenging perceived identities and subcultures is apparently "judgmental" and out of bounds now though.  Good on you. 

As a partially objective observer, may I recommend that those arguing with her respond less defensively?  It makes you look guilty.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 05:07:36 PM by Cognomen » Logged

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« Reply #88 on: November 09, 2011, 05:07:28 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



Oh habte, this is completely grabbing straw definition you just gave which probably emanated after you have seen what I interpreted as his name, one you have already seen that Gebere's definition did not hold water. so you are trying to come up with a newly invented definition for the blasphemous term.  well if as you said those who understand the Amharic language have seen it, they would lough at the conclusion you just arrived at, but if they are orthodox they will be horrified by the so called misconception , misuse of language. unless ofc they are arrogant and continue to insist it does not matter, and it can be used either way, to which the orthodox church will say NO WAY to. there is no such dual meaning int he Rastafarian movement , the message is clear JAH RASTAFARI means rastafari IS JAH, this has been a time proven declaration of their faith. now you say it is to say that God is one to be feared, oh please by anyones linguistic deciphering ability this is clearly a distortion of language, what it is says is plain and clear. Jah -JEHOVA, Ras- Head  TAFARI - TERRIFYING  let us translate it then, JEHOVA is a terrifying Head! as silly as this is , still that is not what is being said by the Rastafarian's who originally coined the term as their Creed! and for you to say it is to say that the Almighty is the one that perpetuates ...... speech really another straw grabbing definition.  say what you like the fact remains JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI those rastafarians who say it will be asked to stop saying it if they intend to join the orthodox church, and those who still hang on to their idol then they too will be constantly 'reminded' that JAH ain't no RASTAFARI.


As to the dreadlocks Ethiopians  I assure you its a fashion statement, none of them who know their history and have no fanciful ideas about the Emperor being a deity claim to be Rastafarian's in the manner you protray. it was not a dirty game to say words matter and just as we  the Orthodox do not say Paul is risen! we will never say JAH RASTAFARI.



my kind sister you sure love to pontificate based upon ignorant assumptions and generalizations.  Oh, so I only learned the truth of an Amharic phrase I  have been using for my entire adult life because of what you posted? Get over yourself please, you can only insult so much before we bring out the real.  As we say in Rastafari, "if a fish woulda keep him big yap shut, him never woulda got caught in the first place" and as I said, in regards to Rastafari/Ethiopian connections, you clearly have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, so maybe it would be best if you asked questions instead of making rude and ignorant accusations?

Further, language is a code used by individuals and communities to communicate.  It is dynamic, it is evolving, it is localized and individualized.  Just because YOU read a phrase or some words a particular way, doesn't make that the way others use or understand these terms, sorry.  We in Rastafari have told you what WE MEAN when we speak certain words, if you disagree with our meanings that is fine, but how can you tell us what we mean when we speak? That is some arrogance you have there, and it is surprising considering how insightful and spiritual your posts have been, well these on this thread are an about-face 180 towards negativity and cynicism.  That doesn't sound anything like the Sis Hiwot we have known here, sorry if we touched a nerve, but you need to be a bit more responsible in the way you express yourself, you have been rather rude and insultingly insensitive to a lot of people's honest and sincere testimonies.  Why don't you listen to what people are saying rather then speaking over them as if YOU were the expert on things you clearly are not? We learn A LOT from your posts here, but not on this one.  Why don't you learn a bit from us like we enjoy learning from you?

Dreadlocked Ethiopians are just a fashion, some, true, but how can you generalize against all? How can you dismiss the testimony of folks like myself who actually know and have met actual Ethiopian Rastafari people? Again, you have had a lot of nerve coming here to boss everybody around as if you were the expert and we were a bunch of highschool kids listening to Bob Marley records and pretending to be Rastas.  We are Rastafari people here, and we know Rastafari culture and history, and we are Rastafari Orthodox, and we know this history and all its players personally, including HH Abune Yesehaq and many others.  Why would you insult our testimony as if it were not valid, and as if it were you who knew all these people when clearly you don't by the things you've said? If you feel we are misrepresenting Ethiopia you can speak on that, but please don't insist on misrepresenting we Rastafari Orthodox when we are standing here ready to speak for ourselves if you would only listen beyond your ideologue blinders?

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #89 on: November 09, 2011, 05:08:41 PM »

There is a marked difference between being a grammar nazi (eg enforcing the theyre/their/there distinctions) and literally struggling to understand someone because they refused to use punctuation and/or basic sentence structure.

Completely agreed.  Gebre, you've nailed your colors to the mast, supporting that dross.

Edited some good stuff out.   Smiley

Against my better judgment, edited back in:

Hiwot, your defense of the Orthodox faith is commendable and has clearly touched some exposed nerves.  I wonder why the reaction?  Of course challenging perceived identities and subcultures is apparently "judgmental" and out of bounds now though.  Good on you.  

As a partially objective observer, may I recommend that those arguing with her respond less defensively?  It makes you look guilty.
I apprecaite the defense mates. I didnt think I was being overly sensitive to grammar but....

PP
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 05:09:13 PM by primuspilus » Logged

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Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
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