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Author Topic: Blessings on this 81st Anniversary of the Coronation of HIM Haile Selassie I  (Read 14604 times) Average Rating: 0
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HabteSelassie
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« on: November 02, 2011, 04:03:19 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Today marks the 81st anniversary of the Coronation of His Imperial Majesty, Emperor Haile Selassie I, of Ethiopia, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, Elect of God, Light of This World, King of Zion, King of Israel, crowned November 2, 1930.

On this day, the Almighty God confirmed the sure loyalties of the promises of King David, affirming the perpetuity of the Davidic Monarchy among human beings.  The Israel of God, that is the Church, shall never be short a king or a prophet!

Haile Selassie I demonstrates the effective power of the Almighty God on earth, through men.

Three Cheers for the Emperor! Selassie I Jah! Selassie I Jah! Selassie I Jah! Rastafari!
stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2011, 04:39:07 PM »

Where is the perpetual earthly Davidic monarchy now?
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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2011, 04:52:59 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Where is the perpetual earthly Davidic monarchy now?

shh.. its a secret not best for the internet, but if you search it up a bit you just might find it Wink

How could I forgot HIM best title, "Defender of the Orthodox Faith"
Defender of the Faith  
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"Venerable and Holy Fathers, in listening to the profound spiritual message conveyed by your closing addresses, and appreciating the happy outcome of your sustained efforts, Our heart has been touched by profound gladness. It should therefore be clear to the whole world from the result of your work that Your Holinesses have been guided and inspired by the Holy Spirit to accomplish your task in love and unity.

"The great common tasks accomplished by the Conference in unison bestow on the true faith and true order of the Oriental Orthodox Church the admiration of the whole world.

"As Solomon says, physical distance cannot be a barrier to love,. Likewise, the distances among your respective countries have been abolished by the proximity of your hearts. You have thus been able to speak a single tongue and think with a single mind. We thank Almighty God for enabling Us to witness the realization of Our dream in the successful outcome of this historic Conference.

"We are therefore happy to express to you Our readiness, fortified by the results of this Conference, to invite you and the Eastern Orthodox Churches, and also other churches at a later date. We ardently hope that we shall meet once again in the not too distant future.

"As We stated at the inauguration of this Conference, to meet together, to take council with one another, and to act in mutual cooperation, has proved a most fruitful method both in the secular and spiritual fields. Henceforth the way is open for you to follow this fruitful path, and to this end, Our help and assistance will always be forthcoming, since We support your efforts and ideas out of an unshakable conviction that it is Our spiritual duty to do so.

"We are gratified in particular to note that the work of this Conference has been concerned purely with religious spiritual matters free from extraneous political considerations. This is only fitting and proper, for the church, as a symbol of peace, must follow the path of peace in all parts of the world. In this connection We are glad to note that your evangelistic mission in the world has received due emphasis in your deliberations, together with the recognition of the Christian duty to pray for the rights of man and the peace of the world. For world peace can only be made abiding by the Grace of God, through the prayers of the Holy Fathers. the truth of this cardinal fact is evident to all mankind.

"We ardently hope that Almighty God shall bless the implementation of our important resolutions and decisions, just as He has made possible the successful convening and conclusion of this historic Conference.

"Holy Fathers, We have welcomed the title you have given Us, Defender of the Faith, with great honor, May almighty God grace your name. May God welcome your work. We have received this title given Us by you Holy Fathers, with religious reverence. May your prayers help Us in Our effort to fulfill the task entrusted to Us."
January 21st 1965


Besides of which, even if folks are of the persuasion that HIM is dead and buried, regardless it is custom to revere Christian monarchs in perpetuity in the same was as we still called US presidents "Mr. President" long after their terms are up, even after they've passed.  If duppy US politricksters deserve such honors, surely the King Of Kings and Defender of the Orthodox Faith deserves to be honored in our memory, and I know there are Russians here who know what I am talking about.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 04:53:23 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2011, 04:57:14 PM »

Quote
King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah

Ummm...sorry for being a meanie but I thought that belonged to:




alone.


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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2011, 05:04:11 PM »

i acknowledge one King of Kings, and He is not an earthly one.
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« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2011, 05:20:15 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Could y'all kindly go "poop" on someone elses' parade please?

In Ethiopian history, culture, law, and Church, the Emperors are the

King of Kings  because there are lesser kings in Ethiopian polity who reign under the Emperor's Divine sovereignty,

Lord of Lords because there are lesser lords in Ethiopian polity who reign under the Emperor's Divine sovereignty,

Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah because, as Davidic monarchs of King Solomon's family line, the Ethiopian Emperors have always carried this title as their lawful inheritance, in fact we in the Ethiopian Church actually don't think of this title as uniquely Christ's, in fact quite the opposite, it is because this is the earthly title for Davidic monarchs, giving Christ this same title is to affirm His Humanity as a descendant of King David.

Elect of God because the Emperors are the Anointed Kings chosen by God to reign in His power and authority on the earth as Christian sovereigns.

Light of this World is a temporary title also applied to the Emperors because they are Godly ordained, like Priests, to be the True Light pointing to Christ, just as the Moon reflects the Son and in God's Grace firmly guide the people towards the Will of God.


King of Zion because they are the lawful sovereigns over the Ark of the Covenant, Holy Zion.

King of Israel because they are the lawful sovereigns over the royal family and lineage of Israel, transplanted physically into Ethiopia, and further because the Emperors are the Defenders of the Church on earth in God's Grace, and the Church is of course as Apostle Paul explains the Israel of God.

Defender of the Faith because the Oriental Orthodox world awards this Title at various times to many Ethiopian Emperors, and it has been an HONOR and PRIVILEGE of the Ethiopian Emperors to be granted such responsibility by the Oriental Orthodox Fathers.

If y'all misunderstand the historicity of the very honorific and venerable titles and responsibilities of the Ethiopian Emperors that is fine and good, but please don't be so crass and insensitive.  Its like all our grandmothers told us, "If you aint got nothing nice to say, don't say nothing at all." Wink

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 05:21:45 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2011, 05:41:13 PM »

Byzantine emperors also called themselves "King of Kings," no?
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« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2011, 05:56:49 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior JEsus Christ!
Byzantine emperors also called themselves "King of Kings," no?

Exactly, Emperor Justinian, King of Kings of Rome, and Emperor Kaleb, King of Kings of Axum, met in their time to divide the realms of the world between them as mutual sovereigns.  The Ethiopians for a time respected the Byzantine monarchy as also being Solomonic, but as lesser sons or younger brothers, but as royal family all the same.  This is of course attested both in the epic meta-narrative the Kebra Negast and also many instances of historical interaction between the Ethiopian sovereigns and the Byzantines/Romans, from the 4th century up until 16th century with the fall of Constantinople.

 It is from that time on that Ethiopian Emperors have embraced the title Defender of the Faith and also considered themselves the remaining, lawful, Davidic King of Kings since their lesser brother the Byzantine/Romans had seemed to pass away from the scene.  Today, we see the monarchy in a period of transition, but the royal family remains active and in-tact, and this is really just a brief hiccup in the scheme of a two-thousand plus year dynasty which has had several hiccups in the past.  I for one, fully assert that God can and will fully restore the Davidic sovereigns in Ethiopia, and if He doesn't, I would superstitiously come to expect the Second Coming, as it would be too long a gap between King of Kings on the Throne.  Right now, we are almost two generations removed, but there are still those alive and well who served under HIM Haile Selassie, and so we can still think of it as only a pause, and restoration is indeed an option, and one which Ethiopia (and it would seem lately Egypt and Sudan) would greatly benefit from by God's Grace!

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2011, 05:58:06 PM »

Byzantine emperors also called themselves "King of Kings," no?

Yes, let's not lose sight of the fact!
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« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2011, 06:29:33 PM »

Can anyone recommend a good biography? I have always wanted to read one but have had trouble finding things about him in the local library. Maybe I can order one. Thanks.
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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2011, 01:43:21 AM »

L

A

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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2011, 09:36:19 AM »

Byzantine emperors also called themselves "King of Kings," no?
I dont agree with anyone using that title other than the One who truly deserves it. The Lord Jesus Christ.

Please forgive me, I was not trying to attack the Ethiopians or anything. I was just a little taken aback by the titles given to this man.

Although I still find it the height of hubris to accept such titles, now that its been explained, I've learned something and I'll bow out.

PP
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« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2011, 03:18:45 PM »

Can anyone recommend a good biography? I have always wanted to read one but have had trouble finding things about him in the local library. Maybe I can order one. Thanks.

Same here.
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« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2011, 03:23:57 PM »

This video comes from one of the sticky threads above, but I think it's worth posting here. I love it!

http://www.diretube.com/haile-selassie/speaking-in-his-garden-david-will-still-beat-goliath-video_9cd589a73.html


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« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2011, 08:58:27 AM »

Here is an interesting stuff:

http://dubroom.org/rastafari/ncvlyundoi8ty/him_canada_1967.mp3

This is an extract from a radio program of 1967, named "Project 67: The Conquering Lion of Judah - A Profile Study Of His Imperial Majesty".

Around the middle of the audio, it speaks about H.I.M.'s coronation. And in it, it is said that a number of Coptic (Egyptian) deacons have sung, with palm branches in their hands, during his coronation's ceremony: "Hosanna, Blessed be the King of Israel, Blessed is He who cometh in the Name of the Lord."
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« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2011, 09:28:42 AM »

Is this veneration of Haile Selassie just a rastafari thing or is he respected also among regular Ethiopians?
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« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2011, 02:45:45 PM »

Is this veneration of Haile Selassie just a rastafari thing or is he respected also among regular Ethiopians?

The personality of H.I.M. Haile Selassie I is controversed among the Ethiopians. You can have different reactions, depending on the person with whom you are discussing. I feel in general their view on H.I.M. is "bittersweet" you see. "Haile Selassie the good and the bad" some say.. But you also have those who consider him to be very very great, and on the other hand those who despise him considering him to be an evil man. Really controversial.

There were so many propagandas against H.I.M. and his government and the royal family.. And personally I must say that some Ethiopians are very ignorant about H.I.M., and just believe and repeat the distortions, the lies or half-truths they hear around them.

Here is a documentary on His Majesty from a good perspective. Watch it. And in part 2, from 00:22 to 00:28, you can hear a Priest saying H.I.M. is angelic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRhlfNNH47U (Part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ_kam0hYe0&feature=related (Part 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_osQ25naxO0&feature=related (Part 3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ8G9DVj2vA&feature=related (Part 4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdpDCd73DqM&feature=related (Part 5)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDCx4anpBN0&feature=related (Part 6)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISrizOInwhM&feature=related (Part 7)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82EjNs0o3L8&feature=related (Part 8 )

And please, Be aware that the audio program in the previous post is not a Rastafarian thing, but was made by non-Rastafarians, by Canadian journalists. But the link of this audio program is on the website of a Rastafarian, but a Rastafarian who does not adore/worship His Majesty.
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Mo'a Ambessa ze imnegede Yehuda !
The Lion of the tribe of Judah has conquered !
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« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2011, 03:53:49 PM »

Here is an interesting stuff:

http://dubroom.org/rastafari/ncvlyundoi8ty/him_canada_1967.mp3

This is an extract from a radio program of 1967, named "Project 67: The Conquering Lion of Judah - A Profile Study Of His Imperial Majesty".

Around the middle of the audio, it speaks about H.I.M.'s coronation. And in it, it is said that a number of Coptic (Egyptian) deacons have sung, with palm branches in their hands, during his coronation's ceremony: "Hosanna, Blessed be the King of Israel, Blessed is He who cometh in the Name of the Lord."


It's customary to sing this hymn when the Coptic Pope also comes in the Church.  I suppose the deacons extended the same to the Ethiopian emperor.
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« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2011, 06:41:07 PM »

Here is an interesting stuff:

http://dubroom.org/rastafari/ncvlyundoi8ty/him_canada_1967.mp3

This is an extract from a radio program of 1967, named "Project 67: The Conquering Lion of Judah - A Profile Study Of His Imperial Majesty".

Around the middle of the audio, it speaks about H.I.M.'s coronation. And in it, it is said that a number of Coptic (Egyptian) deacons have sung, with palm branches in their hands, during his coronation's ceremony: "Hosanna, Blessed be the King of Israel, Blessed is He who cometh in the Name of the Lord."


It's customary to sing this hymn when the Coptic Pope also comes in the Church.  I suppose the deacons extended the same to the Ethiopian emperor.

Thanks for the info. Then let me ask you these questions:

Do they sing "Blessed is He who cometh in the Name of the Lord" only? Or Do they sing "Hosanna, Blessed be the King of Israel, Blessed is He who cometh in the Name of the Lord" entirely? And Do they have palm branches too? Do you know?


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Mo'a Ambessa ze imnegede Yehuda !
The Lion of the tribe of Judah has conquered !
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« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2011, 09:31:33 PM »

Here is an interesting stuff:

http://dubroom.org/rastafari/ncvlyundoi8ty/him_canada_1967.mp3

This is an extract from a radio program of 1967, named "Project 67: The Conquering Lion of Judah - A Profile Study Of His Imperial Majesty".

Around the middle of the audio, it speaks about H.I.M.'s coronation. And in it, it is said that a number of Coptic (Egyptian) deacons have sung, with palm branches in their hands, during his coronation's ceremony: "Hosanna, Blessed be the King of Israel, Blessed is He who cometh in the Name of the Lord."


It's customary to sing this hymn when the Coptic Pope also comes in the Church.  I suppose the deacons extended the same to the Ethiopian emperor.

Thanks for the info. Then let me ask you these questions:

Do they sing "Blessed is He who cometh in the Name of the Lord" only? Or Do they sing "Hosanna, Blessed be the King of Israel, Blessed is He who cometh in the Name of the Lord" entirely? And Do they have palm branches too? Do you know?




We chant both  Smiley

And yes, palm branches as well.

Here's the hymn we chant:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,9840.msg558025.html#msg558025
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« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2011, 09:43:34 PM »

Can anyone recommend a good biography? I have always wanted to read one but have had trouble finding things about him in the local library. Maybe I can order one. Thanks.

Haile Selassie I. My Life and Ethiopia's Progress: The Autobiography of Emperor Haile Sellassie I. Translated from Amharic by Edward Ullendorff. New York: Frontline Books

There are 2 vols. You can usually find Vol. 1 (which closes in 1937) on Amazon. Vol. 2 is harder to find, not sure why.

Haile Sellassie I (vol. 1): The Formative Years 1892-1936 by Harold Marcus, pub. 1st Red Sea Press, Inc., 1995

Marcus has written a lot on Ethiopia. I have yet to see anything indicating that he's published the second volume of this bio however.

Many years,

Neil
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« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2011, 03:33:13 AM »

Wonderful thread! Give thanks brothers HabteSelassie and Arnaud for the wonderful information about our beloved King. It saddens me whenever I hear people disparage H.I.M. in ignorance, or mock the Monarchy as an anachronism. My Priest told me that we must pray for the restoration of the Monarchy in Ethiopia, and I will continue to do so. Regardless of what others say about H.I.M., I would not know Christ apart from His Majesty's teachings and example. I would have remained ignorant about Orthodoxy, lost and floundering in a morass of Western Christian heresies. I give thanks for His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I!


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« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2011, 04:32:25 AM »

Can anyone recommend a good biography? I have always wanted to read one but have had trouble finding things about him in the local library. Maybe I can order one. Thanks.

Haile Selassie I. My Life and Ethiopia's Progress: The Autobiography of Emperor Haile Sellassie I. Translated from Amharic by Edward Ullendorff. New York: Frontline Books

There are 2 vols. You can usually find Vol. 1 (which closes in 1937) on Amazon. Vol. 2 is harder to find, not sure why.

Haile Sellassie I (vol. 1): The Formative Years 1892-1936 by Harold Marcus, pub. 1st Red Sea Press, Inc., 1995

Marcus has written a lot on Ethiopia. I have yet to see anything indicating that he's published the second volume of this bio however.

Many years,

Neil

Thank you!   Smiley
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« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2011, 05:57:21 AM »

My Priest told me that we must pray for the restoration of the Monarchy in Ethiopia

Must?! Did he specify any reason for that?
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« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2011, 06:29:39 AM »

My Priest told me that we must pray for the restoration of the Monarchy in Ethiopia

Must?! Did he specify any reason for that?


HabteSelassie explained the reasons above.


Selam
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« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2011, 04:05:28 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Here is an interesting stuff:

http://dubroom.org/rastafari/ncvlyundoi8ty/him_canada_1967.mp3

This is an extract from a radio program of 1967, named "Project 67: The Conquering Lion of Judah - A Profile Study Of His Imperial Majesty".

Around the middle of the audio, it speaks about H.I.M.'s coronation. And in it, it is said that a number of Coptic (Egyptian) deacons have sung, with palm branches in their hands, during his coronation's ceremony: "Hosanna, Blessed be the King of Israel, Blessed is He who cometh in the Name of the Lord."


You would have to triple check that fact, because while there were indeed Egyptian clergy attending the coronation because the Ethiopian Church was not yet  autocephalous, the historic sources tend to confuse the specifically Coptic clergy from the specifically Ethiopian clergy.  So when you read and hear primary source material and later historical sources, there is some inherent confusion.  There very well may have been Coptic deacons along with the attending Coptic priests, but the Liturgy at that coronation was Ethiopian, aside from the Egyptian Metropolitan Archbishop of Ethiopia who did the crowning, the celebrating clergy were all Ethiopian.  I would not want to misrepresent the Egyptians in this matter, and also highlight that in the historic sources (non-Ethiopian that is to say) Coptic and Ethiopian in regards to the Church in Ethiopia are inaccurately used interchangeably.

My Priest told me that we must pray for the restoration of the Monarchy in Ethiopia

Must?! Did he specify any reason for that?

There specific prayers in the Divine Liturgy for the King and Queen which are customarily assumed for the contemporary secular Heads of State.  Many priests have monarchist sentiments and see this transfer as being in poor taste, and so folks of this persuasion pray for the restoration of the monarchy.  We must pray for it is code-word for we should not try to necessarily fight a revolution for it.  Further, we in the Church pray for our leaders, good and bad, for the Grace of God to intervene in our lives.  If they are good, we pray giving thanks, if they are bad, we pray that God help us and them.  When the Church had to pray for Col. Mengistu and the Derg, a regime who routinely assassinated clergy as real politick, we all the more fervently prayed for our unfortunate leader, that the Grace of God might save us from the chaos.  These are the wounds that the brother was mentioning around the plurality of Ethiopian opinions regarding HIM.  From my personal experience with Ethiopians here in the US, including some of HIM personal clergy who are my priests still today, the elders and older generation who lived under or near HIM still are fond of HIM memory and legacy, and rightfully venerated HIM in the tradition of the Church according to the titles I documents above.  The "baby-boomer" generation grew up in the Derg and Revolution eras, and so they really don't know HIM much more as either a fairy tale or the boogie man.  The youngsters, people 15-30, now these folks simply LOVE and ADORE HIM, and HIM t-shirts are becoming more popular amongst Ethiopians than Rastas!  Why else would China mass produce millions of these Lion of Judah logo things, the Bob Marley fans market can't possibly be as large as the market of millions of Ethiopians are increasingly becoming more interesting in the Imperial history and legacy.

Is this veneration of Haile Selassie just a rastafari thing or is he respected also among regular Ethiopians?

The personality of H.I.M. Haile Selassie I is controversed among the Ethiopians. You can have different reactions, depending on the person with whom you are discussing. I feel in general their view on H.I.M. is "bittersweet" you see. "Haile Selassie the good and the bad" some say.. But you also have those who consider him to be very very great, and on the other hand those who despise him considering him to be an evil man. Really controversial.

There were so many propagandas against H.I.M. and his government and the royal family.. And personally I must say that some Ethiopians are very ignorant about H.I.M., and just believe and repeat the distortions, the lies or half-truths they hear around them.

Here is a documentary on His Majesty from a good perspective. Watch it. And in part 2, from 00:22 to 00:28, you can hear a Priest saying H.I.M. is angelic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRhlfNNH47U (Part 1)

And please, Be aware that the audio program in the previous post is not a Rastafarian thing, but was made by non-Rastafarians, by Canadian journalists. But the link of this audio program is on the website of a Rastafarian, but a Rastafarian who does not adore/worship His Majesty.

I love the way you phrased that, "the personality of HIM" because we in Rastafari use the same exact language to describe the Emperor.  I prefer to side with those like that priest in Man of Millenium (an absolute GEM of a biography of HIM) who think of HIM as angelic, after all it is written

Quote
“The LORD will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and of Jerusalem’s inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah.  .. so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the LORD going before them.   
Zechariah 12:3

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2011, 07:45:53 AM »

Is this veneration of Haile Selassie just a rastafari thing or is he respected also among regular Ethiopians?

The personality of H.I.M. Haile Selassie I is controversed among the Ethiopians. You can have different reactions, depending on the person with whom you are discussing. I feel in general their view on H.I.M. is "bittersweet" you see. "Haile Selassie the good and the bad" some say.. But you also have those who consider him to be very very great, and on the other hand those who despise him considering him to be an evil man. Really controversial.

There were so many propagandas against H.I.M. and his government and the royal family.. And personally I must say that some Ethiopians are very ignorant about H.I.M., and just believe and repeat the distortions, the lies or half-truths they hear around them.


this is a fair and balanced assessment IMO. the Emperor remains controversial not only due to ignorance and hateful propaganda which has obviously been rampant by the derge regime and other parties,  but also among the well educated historians as well as the general Ethiopian public which for the most part is highly political and knows its history pretty well. there are extremes on each end of course, but most would be fair to say, he was both good and bad. as he was only a man who had great responsibility of leading a country which is not made out of a one ethnicity , nor one religion. not everyone was enjoying his leadership, however we evaluate our emperors by the standards of their time and the precedent of our other glorious kings, kings we have canonised, as being just leaders as well as devout God bearing Christian Saints. some have abdicated their rule to persue the religious life. some have lived on a strict ascetic life while ruling as kings, the taxation only enough to maintain the govt, they were true servants of the Lord and the people, some of them not even eating the royal banquet that would be prepared for their court, rather they live on whatever income they have acquired by selling baskets as the monks do. each gives their crown to the Church upon their passing or their abdication. Kings like Emperor Minelek II were so much loved that their name was never called as just janhoy Menelik, but rather it was always Emmye Menelik/ dearest mother Menelik/ you see the place of a mother in Ethiopian Psyche is great, and that was how much they loved him, infact he was so loved that his death was hidden from the public for five years and for five years people used every opportunity to morn him on public defying the official denial of his death. they were also fiercely patriotic, there is a tradition in Ethiopia that the worriers go singing and laughing as they do battle the main team is to call the names of those that have died heroes, the ancestors, and how delightful it would be to meet them today and to stand among them with honor. its mainly called ' qererto, fukera, shillela' because of its outrageous jovial mood many have been called demons by their enemies.

the Emperor is measured by all that came before him and by the standards of his time and his situation. he has done many great things, and has made his fair share of political errors. however if we are talking about his faith, then he was a faithful man a devout orthodox christian, and served the Church the best he could. it pains me to see how much his name has been used to spread a false message, and idolatry which for some brought a political gain. however as St. Paul have said, saying I am Paul's or Apollo's is not the message of the Gospel. let us rejoice in the message of freedom that the Gospel of Christ Our Lord brings us.There is much fruit that has come out of him sending Bishop to the Caribbeans and making sure that the message of the Gospel is not distorted by  political interest groups or other innocents. for Our Lord Jesus Christ is who we worship who we preach and whose return we anticipate and pray for. I thank God for those who have heard the message of Orthodoxy and became part of the fold of Christ's flock as a result of that. and I pray for the rest who are mistakenly lead astray by those who have distorted the message of the Gospel that they may come to see the Light of Christ Our Victorious King.
I realise there are monarchists who would wish for the return of the monarchy in Ethiopia, that is not likely to happen in the Ethiopia of today, however they can pray for that as the rest pray for the leadership that will be just for all. I read that some clergy are telling people that they must pray for the restoration of the monarchy, that is absolutely a matter of personal opinion. not a canonical obligation of the faithful.

habte I do not want to bust your bubble but, the 'baby boomers' as you called them although i doubt they can be called that, are not as ignorant of their history as you protray them, there is nothing fairy tale or a bogey man attitude about the emperor, if they have a boggy man attitude they will tell you the reason why they despise him, the reason might not be to our satisfaction but still there is a reason. Ethiopians are highly political people, they spend ours talking about their history and political impact of this leader or that, the generation you missed is the generation that overthrew the king, they are the fathers and mothers of the above baby boomers, and they have talked about him a lot more than they have talked about Emperor Caleb, or any other emperor. the new generation you mentioned of loving and adoring the emperor, because they are wearing the T-shirts of the lion of Judah, and the emperor or bob merely, i assure you the same generation is the one that has been fighting for a democratic government, this generation is not a monarchist generation, millions of Tupac's T-shirts have been sold in Ethiopia, as well as the T shirts of Emperor Theodoros, Yohannes, and Menelik. do not read too much into the event.

as to our Coptic brothers being at the Coronation , ofc they were there, as they have been before in the time of Menelik , theodoros, yohannes etc... solidarity in faith , and the hymn really means nothing other than it being a traditional hymn reserved for kings and bishops. there is no hidden Messianic message, and the hyperbole of praise by the Ethiopian singers of their monarchy its business as usual, they do it for all the kings. the more praise one comes up with a creative double entendre the better demonstrative effect it has on the learnt poet. the poets being Christians they use christian imagery in their poems.


May the Lord  have mercy and give eternal rest to the soul of the Faithful Departed Servants of God Emperors of Ethiopia.
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« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2011, 08:50:51 PM »

The link below shows a very rare video of a fairly complete liturgy celebrated by Pope Kyrillos VI.  As you know Pope Kyrillos and HIM had a tremendous bond of affection.  Everyone was always naked before Pope Kyrillos, he saw straight through the souls of all who stood before him. So for me, Pope Kyrillos' great love for HIM says much.

Go to the beginning of the video starting around 1:56 and you can see Pope Kyrillos and HIM standing next to each other with arms locked together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O06mE21xiM&feature=share

In Christ,
Fr. Kyrillos
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« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2011, 07:33:30 AM »

Selassie I Jah!

I have no problem with the royal titles bestowed upon HIM. They are by no means unique to the Ethiopian monarchy.

However, the phrase "Selassie I Jah" is blasphemy. Haile Selassie was a mere man, not Jah. I know Selassie means Trinity, the Trinity is, of course, Jah. But "Selassie I" is the title given to Tafari Makonen. Those who shout "Selassie I Jah" or "Jah Rastafari" are not Orthodox but the worshippers of men.
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« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2011, 08:04:01 AM »

Selassie I Jah!

I have no problem with the royal titles bestowed upon HIM. They are by no means unique to the Ethiopian monarchy.

However, the phrase "Selassie I Jah" is blasphemy. Haile Selassie was a mere man, not Jah. I know Selassie means Trinity, the Trinity is, of course, Jah. But "Selassie I" is the title given to Tafari Makonen. Those who shout "Selassie I Jah" or "Jah Rastafari" are not Orthodox but the worshippers of men.


Not necessarily brother. It is true that many Rastas worship Haile Selassie as God, but not all do so. I still chant "JAH! Rastafari!:" But I am not a Haile Selassie worshiper. When I exclaim "JAH! Rastafari!," I am hailing and acknowledging that JAH/God is ruler of Creation. So I just want you to please be careful about accusing those who use this phrase of idolatry.


Selam
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« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2011, 08:27:02 AM »

Not necessarily brother. It is true that many Rastas worship Haile Selassie as God, but not all do so. I still chant "JAH! Rastafari!:" But I am not a Haile Selassie worshiper. When I exclaim "JAH! Rastafari!," I am hailing and acknowledging that JAH/God is ruler of Creation. So I just want you to please be careful about accusing those who use this phrase of idolatry.

How does using the princely title Ras and the first name Tafari in conjunction with the name of God praise Him as ruler of creation? I know you are not a worshiper of HIM, so I'm interested in how you justify such an exclamation.
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« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2011, 08:56:27 AM »

 
Not necessarily brother. It is true that many Rastas worship Haile Selassie as God, but not all do so. I still chant "JAH! Rastafari!:" But I am not a Haile Selassie worshiper. When I exclaim "JAH! Rastafari!," I am hailing and acknowledging that JAH/God is ruler of Creation. So I just want you to please be careful about accusing those who use this phrase of idolatry.

How does using the princely title Ras and the first name Tafari in conjunction with the name of God praise Him as ruler of creation? I know you are not a worshiper of HIM, so I'm interested in how you justify such an exclamation.


Because as you already know, "JAH" means God. And "Rastafari" means ruler or head of creation. Brother Habte Selassie may elaborate on this more if he wishes.


Selam
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« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2011, 11:47:15 AM »

Not necessarily brother. It is true that many Rastas worship Haile Selassie as God, but not all do so. I still chant "JAH! Rastafari!:" But I am not a Haile Selassie worshiper. When I exclaim "JAH! Rastafari!," I am hailing and acknowledging that JAH/God is ruler of Creation. So I just want you to please be careful about accusing those who use this phrase of idolatry.

How does using the princely title Ras and the first name Tafari in conjunction with the name of God praise Him as ruler of creation? I know you are not a worshiper of HIM, so I'm interested in how you justify such an exclamation.


Because as you already know, "JAH" means God. And "Rastafari" means ruler or head of creation. Brother Habte Selassie may elaborate on this more if he wishes.


Selam

Selam to all,

OK in the hope of correcting the kind of blasphemy  which is sickening and yet that masquerades itself as something right and that needs to be openly rejected and condemned I will give the meaning of those words that  Gebre seems to mistakenly believe  that Rastafari= to head of creation. Gebre by your definition if ras is head which is true but is only a princely title, then teferi must be creation which in reality it is not, not even remotely close by any etymology of the term. infact here is the meaning of Teferi. the root word is ' ferehat'/ Fear and  the other words derived from it are ' feri'/ coward/  , Asferi/ terrifying/( a word used for events , animals, objects , ideas) whereas when one wants to use it to a person's relation to others we use the word Teferi/ one who is feared by others,terrifying/ it is also related to being respected when it is used as a persons name, and this has mostly to do with being a warrior. now the other false interpretation or more like a rationalisation of former affection, is to say the term JAH only refers to jan-hoye, which is the Ethiopian colloquial way of saying "O King" for the king, how on earth did this traditional term used only for MEN who have become kings, suddenly become distorted by some to mean The LORD JEHOVA? which is what JAH means. Lord have mercy!!! I tremble for those who would dare to say such a thing! I find this most distressing and repulsive.
Emperor Haile Selassie , is a mere man, an Orthodox Christian yes, some might say a holy man that can also be true, however anything that has to do with chanting of JAH I bla bla , Is nothing but Blasphemy!!! Ethiopians love their kings for the most part, but none of them even when there were the most holy ones , were ever worshiped! 'E-sema'ene  wa E-reyine wa E-negerune Abewine keme bo Amlak Ze enbeleke!/ we have not heard, we have not seen, and our fathers have not told us that there is any other God other than YOU!/ this is the daily midnight prayer of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church.

Now we have cleared that up, I hope in all honesty all those who call themselves members of the Orthodox Church need to abandon any form of former idolatry either hidden in their baggage, or mistakenly still Carry with themselves as a jewellery of sorts. ( Genesis 31:19-35,When Laban had gone to shear his sheep, Rachel stole her father’s household gods.....  But why did you steal my gods?”

31Jacob answered Laban, “I was afraid, because I thought you would take your daughters away from me by force. 32But if you find anyone who has your gods, he shall not live. In the presence of our relatives, see for yourself whether there is anything of yours here with me; and if so, take it.” Now Jacob did not know that Rachel had stolen the gods.

33So Laban went into Jacob’s tent and into Leah’s tent and into the tent of the two maidservants, but he found nothing. After he came out of Leah’s tent, he entered Rachel’s tent. 34Now Rachel had taken the household gods and put them inside her camel’s saddle and was sitting on them. Laban searched through everything in the tent but found nothing.

35Rachel said to her father, “Don’t be angry, my lord, that I cannot stand up in your presence; I’m having my period.” So he searched but could not find the household gods.


Genesis 35:1-7 1Then God said to Jacob, “Go up to Bethel and settle there, and build an altar there to God, who appeared to you when you were fleeing from your brother Esau.”

2So Jacob said to his household and to all who were with him, “Get rid of the foreign gods you have with you, and purify yourselves and change your clothes. 3Then come, let us go up to Bethel, where I will build an altar to God, who answered me in the day of my distress and who has been with me wherever I have gone.” 4So they gave Jacob all the foreign gods they had and the rings in their ears, and Jacob buried them under the oak at Shechem. 5Then they set out, and the terror of God fell upon the towns all around them so that no one pursued them.

6Jacob and all the people with him came to Luz (that is, Bethel) in the land of Canaan. 7There he built an altar, and he called the place El Bethel,a because it was there that God revealed himself to him when he was fleeing from his brother. )


 As we all can see , it has been done that people have brought in their idols hiding it from those that are certain of their faith enough to  say if it is found among one of us , that person shall die!, but even hidden as it is, it can not survive entering Bethel( the dwelling place of the LORD GOD) so it before entering one has to abandon all forms of Idolatry, even that comes as a decorative piece of jewelery that would draw the Heart of man into his /her former idol, or encourage those who still worship the idol to continue to do so.

 however before God there is no point in rationalising such blasphemy! One must  stand up and give Laban his idols! One must stop giving this reason or that to hid the idol that is still with Oneself. its horrific its sickening and The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church utterly rejects , and anathematise it! woe unto those who would give what belongs to The Almighty God to a mere creature ,a pile of dust such as a man! For Who is like Our God? NO ONE!!! All honor and glory a man got is because of the Honor and Glory that was given to him by the Holy Trinity!

This is a scandalous thing one that is a stumbling block for all others that seek the Truth found in Orthodoxy! the Church has a proper way to venerate a saint , in this case the Church has not canonised the Emperor hailesialsie the first. so public veneration as a saint is an un canonical practice. private veneration of a faithful departed should be done in the proper christian manner and in private. anythingelse is foreign to the Apostolic Tradition of the Church. however Idolatry is indirect opposition to everything we believe in and hold dear.

I hope we are not going to argue about this, because if a mistaken translation is the cause of this albeit unintentional blasphemous utterans of our orthodox brethren then once they know what they are saying it will be easy for those who Love Christ first to correct their ways. however if we are going to merely go on denial like Rachel did only to hold on to our idols then we can not claim to be members of the Orthodox Church.

Our Faith is the Faith of the Holy Martyrs who gave their life  giving witness to the Truth, so giving witness to the Faith they died for sitting from the safety of our homes and over the internet LOL is the least we all can do. 


In Christ,
Hiwot
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« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2011, 12:03:13 PM »

Wow dear sister! Cool down with the judgment please. Seriously. You cannot know what is in our hearts when we chant JAH! Rastafari! The word JAH is used in the King James version of the Bible- see Psalm 68:4. It is a Hebrew for of YAHWEH/Jehovah. Ok? So I will always chant the name of Almighty JAH, and to do so is the antithesis of idolatry.

Thank you for explaining the etymology of the words "Ras" and "Tafari." Brother Habte Selassie has explained this before, which is why I was asking him to explain it once again. Now, I know that my God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, One JAH, amen! - is Lord and Ruler of all Creation. I also know that He is terrible in awe and wonder, so holy that no man can gaze upon Him in the flesh. So, when I chant "JAH! Rastafari!," I am praising God and giving Him all the glory.

Yes, it is sad but true that many Rastas equate our beloved Emperor and King with God Himself, and to do so is pure idolatry. But do not condemn all Rastafarians or all those who chant "JAH! Rastafari!" as idolaters. No need to quote Scriptures to me about the danger and sin of idolatry.

I am a baptized Ethiopian Orthodox Christian who will defend the Orthodox Tewahedo Faith to my dying breath. I have spent much labor and effort proclaiming the Orthodox Faith and the Truth of Eyesus Kristos to fellow Rastafarians who still cling to their idolatry. I have ministered to Rastas in prison, where I did not hesitate to communicate the beautiful Truths of Orthodoxy to them.

So, with respect, please try not to be so judgmental. You should certainly know by now my love for and devotion to our Tewahedo Faith. OK?


Selam
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« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2011, 12:18:25 PM »

Wow dear sister! Cool down with the judgment please. Seriously. You cannot know what is in our hearts when we chant JAH! Rastafari! The word JAH is used in the King James version of the Bible- see Psalm 68:4. It is a Hebrew for of YAHWEH/Jehovah. Ok? So I will always chant the name of Almighty JAH, and to do so is the antithesis of idolatry.

Thank you for explaining the etymology of the words "Ras" and "Tafari." Brother Habte Selassie has explained this before, which is why I was asking him to explain it once again. Now, I know that my God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, One JAH, amen! - is Lord and Ruler of all Creation. I also know that He is terrible in awe and wonder, so holy that no man can gaze upon Him in the flesh. So, when I chant "JAH! Rastafari!," I am praising God and giving Him all the glory.

Yes, it is sad but true that many Rastas equate our beloved Emperor and King with God Himself, and to do so is pure idolatry. But do not condemn all Rastafarians or all those who chant "JAH! Rastafari!" as idolaters. No need to quote Scriptures to me about the danger and sin of idolatry.

I am a baptized Ethiopian Orthodox Christian who will defend the Orthodox Tewahedo Faith to my dying breath. I have spent much labor and effort proclaiming the Orthodox Faith and the Truth of Eyesus Kristos to fellow Rastafarians who still cling to their idolatry. I have ministered to Rastas in prison, where I did not hesitate to communicate the beautiful Truths of Orthodoxy to them.

So, with respect, please try not to be so judgmental. You should certainly know by now my love for and devotion to our Tewahedo Faith. OK?


Selam

Gebre I am not being judgemental but only stating my faith, Tell me again why would you say JAH Rastafari, plainly rather than say let so and so explain it , tell me why you would say that , and I know JAH means The Lord Jehova, now is Rastafari the Lord Jehova? so why is he being refered to as such? is that not utterly blasphemy?

I have said it before and I will say it again , all those that equate the Lord God with a mere man are not Orthodox whether or not baptised as one! read my post again I am not judging anyone who is orthodox in faith, I am condeming those who seek to corrupt the faith and scandalise the Orthodox Church.
Is RasTafari the LORD AND RULER OF CREATION??? IS he JAH? if not tell me why you say he is when you chant?

I know you say you do not worship rastafari, and I will like to take you on your word if you would tell me Why you Say JAH RASTAFARI?

I am a sinner of all manner of things, but I will bost with this , that my faith is Orthodox! read into this what you like my brother, but I Still want to know Why you say JAH RASTAFARI when you know Rastafari means nothing of ruler of creation! so enlighten me , if it is not an idol warshiping then it is a mistake but it can not be anything else. if it is let me know right now and I will stand corrected. nothing will please me other than to find the Orthodox Faith in all my bretheren!

In Christ,
Hiwot
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Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
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« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2011, 12:46:33 PM »

Wow dear sister! Cool down with the judgment please. Seriously. You cannot know what is in our hearts when we chant JAH! Rastafari! The word JAH is used in the King James version of the Bible- see Psalm 68:4. It is a Hebrew for of YAHWEH/Jehovah. Ok? So I will always chant the name of Almighty JAH, and to do so is the antithesis of idolatry.

Thank you for explaining the etymology of the words "Ras" and "Tafari." Brother Habte Selassie has explained this before, which is why I was asking him to explain it once again. Now, I know that my God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, One JAH, amen! - is Lord and Ruler of all Creation. I also know that He is terrible in awe and wonder, so holy that no man can gaze upon Him in the flesh. So, when I chant "JAH! Rastafari!," I am praising God and giving Him all the glory.

Yes, it is sad but true that many Rastas equate our beloved Emperor and King with God Himself, and to do so is pure idolatry. But do not condemn all Rastafarians or all those who chant "JAH! Rastafari!" as idolaters. No need to quote Scriptures to me about the danger and sin of idolatry.

I am a baptized Ethiopian Orthodox Christian who will defend the Orthodox Tewahedo Faith to my dying breath. I have spent much labor and effort proclaiming the Orthodox Faith and the Truth of Eyesus Kristos to fellow Rastafarians who still cling to their idolatry. I have ministered to Rastas in prison, where I did not hesitate to communicate the beautiful Truths of Orthodoxy to them.

So, with respect, please try not to be so judgmental. You should certainly know by now my love for and devotion to our Tewahedo Faith. OK?


Selam

Gebre I am not being judgemental but only stating my faith, Tell me again why would you say JAH Rastafari, plainly rather than say let so and so explain it , tell me why you would say that , and I know JAH means The Lord Jehova, now is Rastafari the Lord Jehova? so why is he being refered to as such? is that not utterly blasphemy?

I have said it before and I will say it again , all those that equate the Lord God with a mere man are not Orthodox whether or not baptised as one! read my post again I am not judging anyone who is orthodox in faith, I am condeming those who seek to corrupt the faith and scandalise the Orthodox Church.
Is RasTafari the LORD AND RULER OF CREATION??? IS he JAH? if not tell me why you say he is when you chant?

I know you say you do not worship rastafari, and I will like to take you on your word if you would tell me Why you Say JAH RASTAFARI?

I am a sinner of all manner of things, but I will bost with this , that my faith is Orthodox! read into this what you like my brother, but I Still want to know Why you say JAH RASTAFARI when you know Rastafari means nothing of ruler of creation! so enlighten me , if it is not an idol warshiping then it is a mistake but it can not be anything else. if it is let me know right now and I will stand corrected. nothing will please me other than to find the Orthodox Faith in all my bretheren!

In Christ,
Hiwot


Dear sister, I have explained it clearly already. I have been explicity clear that I DO NOT worship Haile Selassie as God. I have explained what I mean when I chant "JAH! Rastafari!" Perhaps you should go back and read my explanations again. But do not question the authenticity of my Faith or cast aspersion on my motives. Only JAH knows my heart! You are not my Priest, and if my Priest were to instruct me not to use such an exclamation, then I would no longer do so.

My sister, I have read opinions of yours that I disagreed with, but I have never questioned your Faith. It saddens me that after all our communications and all the posts you have seen from me on this forum that you would accuse me of idolatry and essentially call me a liar. I would never speak to you that way, nor would I presume to question your faith.

Please try to express your concerns and ask your questions without such a judgmental and prejudicial spirit. You are an intellingent person, and it saddens me to see you willfully ignore the clear explanations with which I have already provided you.

Selam
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« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2011, 12:59:11 PM »

Wow dear sister! Cool down with the judgment please. Seriously. You cannot know what is in our hearts when we chant JAH! Rastafari! The word JAH is used in the King James version of the Bible- see Psalm 68:4. It is a Hebrew for of YAHWEH/Jehovah. Ok? So I will always chant the name of Almighty JAH, and to do so is the antithesis of idolatry.

Thank you for explaining the etymology of the words "Ras" and "Tafari." Brother Habte Selassie has explained this before, which is why I was asking him to explain it once again. Now, I know that my God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, One JAH, amen! - is Lord and Ruler of all Creation. I also know that He is terrible in awe and wonder, so holy that no man can gaze upon Him in the flesh. So, when I chant "JAH! Rastafari!," I am praising God and giving Him all the glory.

Yes, it is sad but true that many Rastas equate our beloved Emperor and King with God Himself, and to do so is pure idolatry. But do not condemn all Rastafarians or all those who chant "JAH! Rastafari!" as idolaters. No need to quote Scriptures to me about the danger and sin of idolatry.

I am a baptized Ethiopian Orthodox Christian who will defend the Orthodox Tewahedo Faith to my dying breath. I have spent much labor and effort proclaiming the Orthodox Faith and the Truth of Eyesus Kristos to fellow Rastafarians who still cling to their idolatry. I have ministered to Rastas in prison, where I did not hesitate to communicate the beautiful Truths of Orthodoxy to them.

So, with respect, please try not to be so judgmental. You should certainly know by now my love for and devotion to our Tewahedo Faith. OK?


Selam

Gebre I am not being judgemental but only stating my faith, Tell me again why would you say JAH Rastafari, plainly rather than say let so and so explain it , tell me why you would say that , and I know JAH means The Lord Jehova, now is Rastafari the Lord Jehova? so why is he being refered to as such? is that not utterly blasphemy?

I have said it before and I will say it again , all those that equate the Lord God with a mere man are not Orthodox whether or not baptised as one! read my post again I am not judging anyone who is orthodox in faith, I am condeming those who seek to corrupt the faith and scandalise the Orthodox Church.
Is RasTafari the LORD AND RULER OF CREATION??? IS he JAH? if not tell me why you say he is when you chant?

I know you say you do not worship rastafari, and I will like to take you on your word if you would tell me Why you Say JAH RASTAFARI?

I am a sinner of all manner of things, but I will bost with this , that my faith is Orthodox! read into this what you like my brother, but I Still want to know Why you say JAH RASTAFARI when you know Rastafari means nothing of ruler of creation! so enlighten me , if it is not an idol warshiping then it is a mistake but it can not be anything else. if it is let me know right now and I will stand corrected. nothing will please me other than to find the Orthodox Faith in all my bretheren!

In Christ,
Hiwot


Dear sister, I have explained it clearly already. I have been explicity clear that I DO NOT worship Haile Selassie as God. I have explained what I mean when I chant "JAH! Rastafari!" Perhaps you should go back and read my explanations again. But do not question the authenticity of my Faith or cast aspersion on my motives. Only JAH knows my heart! You are not my Priest, and if my Priest were to instruct me not to use such an exclamation, then I would no longer do so.

My sister, I have read opinions of yours that I disagreed with, but I have never questioned your Faith. It saddens me that after all our communications and all the posts you have seen from me on this forum that you would accuse me of idolatry and essentially call me a liar. I would never speak to you that way, nor would I presume to question your faith.

Please try to express your concerns and ask your questions without such a judgmental and prejudicial spirit. You are an intellingent person, and it saddens me to see you willfully ignore the clear explanations with which I have already provided you.

Selam


Ah, Gebre I am questioning again why would you continue to use the same phrase as used by the rastafarians who worship hialesilasse and who use the term JAH RASTAFARI as the declaration of their faith that he is the Christ The ALLMighty Rastafari, and yet you say it really does not mean anything other than the JAH part you seem to willfully ignore that you have included in that term the rastafari name which for all who read it says THE LORD JEHOVA RASTAFARI! Now tell me again do you not see the blasphemy in the term? is this the Orthodox Faith?
you are the one who is continuing to argue with me about the usage and meaning of the term as not being blasphemous and insist that you will continue to use it. well No orthodox priest I know will approve of such a thing! yes I am not your priest but if you were to tell your priest that you are saying THE LORD JEHOVA RASTAFARI when you chant I am 100% sure he will be horrified by it as I am now and will immediately tell you to renounce such heretical exclamation! because it does not matter what you say the word means because we can only talk in reality and the reality is the meaning of the term is not THE LORD JEHOVA LORD OF CREATION as you twisted it to mean, this is the plain truth, now if you deny the meaning of the term then we have nothing to discuss, however after I have told you the meaning of the term know that you no longer the excuse of ignorance of the term before the LORD who does indeed knows what is in our heart, and if what is in our heart is truly after Worshiping Him alone in Truth and Spirit, then the truth is what we will seek at all time and when we find it by His Grace we will cast away all manner of falsehood!

In Christ,
Hiwot.
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To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
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WWW
« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2011, 01:06:25 PM »

Wow dear sister! Cool down with the judgment please. Seriously. You cannot know what is in our hearts when we chant JAH! Rastafari! The word JAH is used in the King James version of the Bible- see Psalm 68:4. It is a Hebrew for of YAHWEH/Jehovah. Ok? So I will always chant the name of Almighty JAH, and to do so is the antithesis of idolatry.

Thank you for explaining the etymology of the words "Ras" and "Tafari." Brother Habte Selassie has explained this before, which is why I was asking him to explain it once again. Now, I know that my God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, One JAH, amen! - is Lord and Ruler of all Creation. I also know that He is terrible in awe and wonder, so holy that no man can gaze upon Him in the flesh. So, when I chant "JAH! Rastafari!," I am praising God and giving Him all the glory.

Yes, it is sad but true that many Rastas equate our beloved Emperor and King with God Himself, and to do so is pure idolatry. But do not condemn all Rastafarians or all those who chant "JAH! Rastafari!" as idolaters. No need to quote Scriptures to me about the danger and sin of idolatry.

I am a baptized Ethiopian Orthodox Christian who will defend the Orthodox Tewahedo Faith to my dying breath. I have spent much labor and effort proclaiming the Orthodox Faith and the Truth of Eyesus Kristos to fellow Rastafarians who still cling to their idolatry. I have ministered to Rastas in prison, where I did not hesitate to communicate the beautiful Truths of Orthodoxy to them.

So, with respect, please try not to be so judgmental. You should certainly know by now my love for and devotion to our Tewahedo Faith. OK?


Selam

Gebre I am not being judgemental but only stating my faith, Tell me again why would you say JAH Rastafari, plainly rather than say let so and so explain it , tell me why you would say that , and I know JAH means The Lord Jehova, now is Rastafari the Lord Jehova? so why is he being refered to as such? is that not utterly blasphemy?

I have said it before and I will say it again , all those that equate the Lord God with a mere man are not Orthodox whether or not baptised as one! read my post again I am not judging anyone who is orthodox in faith, I am condeming those who seek to corrupt the faith and scandalise the Orthodox Church.
Is RasTafari the LORD AND RULER OF CREATION??? IS he JAH? if not tell me why you say he is when you chant?

I know you say you do not worship rastafari, and I will like to take you on your word if you would tell me Why you Say JAH RASTAFARI?

I am a sinner of all manner of things, but I will bost with this , that my faith is Orthodox! read into this what you like my brother, but I Still want to know Why you say JAH RASTAFARI when you know Rastafari means nothing of ruler of creation! so enlighten me , if it is not an idol warshiping then it is a mistake but it can not be anything else. if it is let me know right now and I will stand corrected. nothing will please me other than to find the Orthodox Faith in all my bretheren!

In Christ,
Hiwot


Dear sister, I have explained it clearly already. I have been explicity clear that I DO NOT worship Haile Selassie as God. I have explained what I mean when I chant "JAH! Rastafari!" Perhaps you should go back and read my explanations again. But do not question the authenticity of my Faith or cast aspersion on my motives. Only JAH knows my heart! You are not my Priest, and if my Priest were to instruct me not to use such an exclamation, then I would no longer do so.

My sister, I have read opinions of yours that I disagreed with, but I have never questioned your Faith. It saddens me that after all our communications and all the posts you have seen from me on this forum that you would accuse me of idolatry and essentially call me a liar. I would never speak to you that way, nor would I presume to question your faith.

Please try to express your concerns and ask your questions without such a judgmental and prejudicial spirit. You are an intellingent person, and it saddens me to see you willfully ignore the clear explanations with which I have already provided you.

Selam


Ah, Gebre I am questioning again why would you continue to use the same phrase as used by the rastafarians who worship hialesilasse and who use the term JAH RASTAFARI as the declaration of their faith that he is the Christ The ALLMighty Rastafari, and yet you say it really does not mean anything other than the JAH part you seem to willfully ignore that you have included in that term the rastafari name which for all who read it says THE LORD JEHOVA RASTAFARI! Now tell me again do you not see the blasphemy in the term? is this the Orthodox Faith?
you are the one who is continuing to argue with me about the usage and meaning of the term as not being blasphemous and insist that you will continue to use it. well No orthodox priest I know will approve of such a thing! yes I am not your priest but if you were to tell your priest that you are saying THE LORD JEHOVA RASTAFARI when you chant I am 100% sure he will be horrified by it as I am now and will immediately tell you to renounce such heretical exclamation! because it does not matter what you say the word means because we can only talk in reality and the reality is the meaning of the term is not THE LORD JEHOVA LORD OF CREATION as you twisted it to mean, this is the plain truth, now if you deny the meaning of the term then we have nothing to discuss, however after I have told you the meaning of the term know that you no longer the excuse of ignorance of the term before the LORD who does indeed knows what is in our heart, and if what is in our heart is truly after Worshiping Him alone in Truth and Spirit, then the truth is what we will seek at all time and when we find it by His Grace we will cast away all manner of falsehood!

In Christ,
Hiwot.

Pray for me, a sinner.


Selam
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« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2011, 01:16:42 PM »

I'm just some silly ferenji, but it has always seemed to me something curious that Ras Tafari, who the Rastafarians take to be some kind of incarnation of God, was an Orthodox Christian. I figure if it's good enough for "god", it is good enough for me and ought to be good enough for everyone! Hence in Ethiopia proper this Rastafarian ideology/theology is seen as foreign, and is therefore confined to tiny isolated places like Shashamene.

But don't take my word for it, read what Ethiopians themselves have to say about the Rastafrians in their midst. It does not seem terribly positive, outside of the Rastas being nice and teaching the Ethiopians English. This part in particular struck me as incredibly bizarre and to be rightfully rejected:

Quote
The Rastafarians say they plan "to educate" the Ethiopian people about their last Emperor.


Forgive me, but I have very little patience for this idea that people from Jamaica should be educating Ethiopians about their own rulers, history, and the proper appreciation or understanding of circumstances under which the Ethiopians themselves lived during the reign of said rulers in those years of their history. For a so-called "black liberation" movement (and that's what Rastafarianism is in the popular mind: a POLITICAL movement based on an assumed racial outlook), the Rastas in this case seem an awful lot like the colonizers they're supposedly fighting against. Like the 73 year old man in the article who claims that the West should help repatriate black people who want to return "to their native land" -- how many Jamaicans were taken from Ethiopia? How many black people in the West in general? I don't know the answers to these questions, but to expect Ethiopia, which has her own problems rooted in her own history and her own local circumstances (none of which the Rastafarians seem to completely appreciate, as they are fetishists, so they primarily see Ethiopia in cosmic, quasi-religious terms), to absorb immigrants from the West with their romantic notions and marijuana addictions simply because those westerners view Ethiopia as their "native land" even if they have no material or historical connection to it outside of their romanticizing of it seems insane.

I have known several Ethiopians and Rastafarians in my life. I have not known any Ethiopian Rastafarians (by which I mean Rastafrians of indigenous stock, not the immigrants who live in Ethiopia; Amhara Rastafarians, Oromo Rastafarians, Tigre Rastafarians, Sidaamo Rastafarians, etc). In fact, the two populations seem to mix about as well as oil and water. If I had to guess as to why this is, I would say that there is enough REAL religion and REAL history in Ethiopia that they probably don't have any need for any westerners' fake recasting of their country and its history and its religions. And I don't blame them. Orthodoxy, after all, is true, and Rastafarianism certainly is not. That's something I'm fairly certain Gebre would agree with, regardless of his affinities for the Rastafarian cult that I will openly admit I cannot even begin to understand.
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« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2011, 01:26:19 PM »

Wow dear sister! Cool down with the judgment please. Seriously. You cannot know what is in our hearts when we chant JAH! Rastafari! The word JAH is used in the King James version of the Bible- see Psalm 68:4. It is a Hebrew for of YAHWEH/Jehovah. Ok? So I will always chant the name of Almighty JAH, and to do so is the antithesis of idolatry.

Thank you for explaining the etymology of the words "Ras" and "Tafari." Brother Habte Selassie has explained this before, which is why I was asking him to explain it once again. Now, I know that my God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, One JAH, amen! - is Lord and Ruler of all Creation. I also know that He is terrible in awe and wonder, so holy that no man can gaze upon Him in the flesh. So, when I chant "JAH! Rastafari!," I am praising God and giving Him all the glory.

Yes, it is sad but true that many Rastas equate our beloved Emperor and King with God Himself, and to do so is pure idolatry. But do not condemn all Rastafarians or all those who chant "JAH! Rastafari!" as idolaters. No need to quote Scriptures to me about the danger and sin of idolatry.

I am a baptized Ethiopian Orthodox Christian who will defend the Orthodox Tewahedo Faith to my dying breath. I have spent much labor and effort proclaiming the Orthodox Faith and the Truth of Eyesus Kristos to fellow Rastafarians who still cling to their idolatry. I have ministered to Rastas in prison, where I did not hesitate to communicate the beautiful Truths of Orthodoxy to them.

So, with respect, please try not to be so judgmental. You should certainly know by now my love for and devotion to our Tewahedo Faith. OK?


Selam

Gebre I am not being judgemental but only stating my faith, Tell me again why would you say JAH Rastafari, plainly rather than say let so and so explain it , tell me why you would say that , and I know JAH means The Lord Jehova, now is Rastafari the Lord Jehova? so why is he being refered to as such? is that not utterly blasphemy?

I have said it before and I will say it again , all those that equate the Lord God with a mere man are not Orthodox whether or not baptised as one! read my post again I am not judging anyone who is orthodox in faith, I am condeming those who seek to corrupt the faith and scandalise the Orthodox Church.
Is RasTafari the LORD AND RULER OF CREATION??? IS he JAH? if not tell me why you say he is when you chant?

I know you say you do not worship rastafari, and I will like to take you on your word if you would tell me Why you Say JAH RASTAFARI?

I am a sinner of all manner of things, but I will bost with this , that my faith is Orthodox! read into this what you like my brother, but I Still want to know Why you say JAH RASTAFARI when you know Rastafari means nothing of ruler of creation! so enlighten me , if it is not an idol warshiping then it is a mistake but it can not be anything else. if it is let me know right now and I will stand corrected. nothing will please me other than to find the Orthodox Faith in all my bretheren!

In Christ,
Hiwot


Dear sister, I have explained it clearly already. I have been explicity clear that I DO NOT worship Haile Selassie as God. I have explained what I mean when I chant "JAH! Rastafari!" Perhaps you should go back and read my explanations again. But do not question the authenticity of my Faith or cast aspersion on my motives. Only JAH knows my heart! You are not my Priest, and if my Priest were to instruct me not to use such an exclamation, then I would no longer do so.

My sister, I have read opinions of yours that I disagreed with, but I have never questioned your Faith. It saddens me that after all our communications and all the posts you have seen from me on this forum that you would accuse me of idolatry and essentially call me a liar. I would never speak to you that way, nor would I presume to question your faith.

Please try to express your concerns and ask your questions without such a judgmental and prejudicial spirit. You are an intellingent person, and it saddens me to see you willfully ignore the clear explanations with which I have already provided you.

Selam


Ah, Gebre I am questioning again why would you continue to use the same phrase as used by the rastafarians who worship hialesilasse and who use the term JAH RASTAFARI as the declaration of their faith that he is the Christ The ALLMighty Rastafari, and yet you say it really does not mean anything other than the JAH part you seem to willfully ignore that you have included in that term the rastafari name which for all who read it says THE LORD JEHOVA RASTAFARI! Now tell me again do you not see the blasphemy in the term? is this the Orthodox Faith?
you are the one who is continuing to argue with me about the usage and meaning of the term as not being blasphemous and insist that you will continue to use it. well No orthodox priest I know will approve of such a thing! yes I am not your priest but if you were to tell your priest that you are saying THE LORD JEHOVA RASTAFARI when you chant I am 100% sure he will be horrified by it as I am now and will immediately tell you to renounce such heretical exclamation! because it does not matter what you say the word means because we can only talk in reality and the reality is the meaning of the term is not THE LORD JEHOVA LORD OF CREATION as you twisted it to mean, this is the plain truth, now if you deny the meaning of the term then we have nothing to discuss, however after I have told you the meaning of the term know that you no longer the excuse of ignorance of the term before the LORD who does indeed knows what is in our heart, and if what is in our heart is truly after Worshiping Him alone in Truth and Spirit, then the truth is what we will seek at all time and when we find it by His Grace we will cast away all manner of falsehood!

In Christ,
Hiwot.

Pray for me, a sinner.


Selam


I too am a sinner, my brother.However Let us stick to the Creed of Our Faith, Either in our hymns or in our prayers to our God. For Hailesilase has no place in either one while we  Adore Our Creator, and /or Sing of His Infinite Glory. For there is only ONE Name that is Above ALL names and that is the Name of Our God Lord and Savior JESUS Christ. we refute those who say in their creed of their faith JAH Rastafari, we say instead the Nicene Creed, the Creed of The Apostles and say there is only One JAH, and the Jesus is the Christ no other man's name rastafari, hailesilase, tafari mekonin whateverelse this is not our Faith and this is not our Hymnogpraphy! it has no place at all in the Orthodox Faith and in the Orthodox Church.

Those who confess JAH RASTAFARI we must pray for their conversion to the Orthodox Faith , but we can not accommodate such heresy to appease man. if they love the king as a political figure let them do so, but he is not the Messiah they say he is when they say JAH RASTAFARI.

May the prayers of the Saints be with us all.

In Christ,
Hiwot.
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To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2011, 01:26:32 PM »

I'm just some silly ferenji, but it has always seemed to me something curious that Ras Tafari, who the Rastafarians take to be some kind of incarnation of God, was an Orthodox Christian. I figure if it's good enough for "god", it is good enough for me and ought to be good enough for everyone! Hence in Ethiopia proper this Rastafarian ideology/theology is seen as foreign, and is therefore confined to tiny isolated places like Shashamene.

But don't take my word for it, read what Ethiopians themselves have to say about the Rastafrians in their midst. It does not seem terribly positive, outside of the Rastas being nice and teaching the Ethiopians English. This part in particular struck me as incredibly bizarre and to be rightfully rejected:

Quote
The Rastafarians say they plan "to educate" the Ethiopian people about their last Emperor.


Forgive me, but I have very little patience for this idea that people from Jamaica should be educating Ethiopians about their own rulers, history, and the proper appreciation or understanding of circumstances under which the Ethiopians themselves lived during the reign of said rulers in those years of their history. For a so-called "black liberation" movement (and that's what Rastafarianism is in the popular mind: a POLITICAL movement based on an assumed racial outlook), the Rastas in this case seem an awful lot like the colonizers they're supposedly fighting against. Like the 73 year old man in the article who claims that the West should help repatriate black people who want to return "to their native land" -- how many Jamaicans were taken from Ethiopia? How many black people in the West in general? I don't know the answers to these questions, but to expect Ethiopia, which has her own problems rooted in her own history and her own local circumstances (none of which the Rastafarians seem to completely appreciate, as they are fetishists, so they primarily see Ethiopia in cosmic, quasi-religious terms), to absorb immigrants from the West with their romantic notions and marijuana addictions simply because those westerners view Ethiopia as their "native land" even if they have no material or historical connection to it outside of their romanticizing of it seems insane.

I have known several Ethiopians and Rastafarians in my life. I have not known any Ethiopian Rastafarians (by which I mean Rastafrians of indigenous stock, not the immigrants who live in Ethiopia; Amhara Rastafarians, Oromo Rastafarians, Tigre Rastafarians, Sidaamo Rastafarians, etc). In fact, the two populations seem to mix about as well as oil and water. If I had to guess as to why this is, I would say that there is enough REAL religion and REAL history in Ethiopia that they probably don't have any need for any westerners' fake recasting of their country and its history and its religions. And I don't blame them. Orthodoxy, after all, is true, and Rastafarianism certainly is not. That's something I'm fairly certain Gebre would agree with, regardless of his affinities for the Rastafarian cult that I will openly admit I cannot even begin to understand.

I devote much of my life to promoting the Orthodox Tewahedo Faith to Rastafarians. I have debated, argued, discussed, and reasoned with Haile Selassie worshipers ad infinitum in an attempt to lead them to Jesus Christ and His True Orthodox Church. I have been persecuted and threatened by some Rastas for daring to proclaim Jesus Christ as the Way, the Truth, and the Life. But apparrently my Faith is now being questioned by an Orthodox sister. It makes me very sad.


Selam
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« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2011, 01:39:59 PM »

I don't know too much about this topic and I am REALLY curious to hear your response to Hiwot's dissection of the terminology, Gebre. Nothing about personal issues or faith, just the use of the words "Jah" and "Rastafari." A purely linguistic argument, if you will.
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« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2011, 01:44:50 PM »

I don't know too much about this topic and I am REALLY curious to hear your response to Hiwot's dissection of the terminology, Gebre. Nothing about personal issues or faith, just the use of the words "Jah" and "Rastafari." A purely linguistic argument, if you will.

Yeah, I understand your interest. But I've explained it clearly already on this thread. If you don't mind, please go back and read what I've already posted. Thanks!


Selam
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« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2011, 01:49:05 PM »

I don't know too much about this topic and I am REALLY curious to hear your response to Hiwot's dissection of the terminology, Gebre. Nothing about personal issues or faith, just the use of the words "Jah" and "Rastafari." A purely linguistic argument, if you will.

Yeah, I understand your interest. But I've explained it clearly already on this thread. If you don't mind, please go back and read what I've already posted. Thanks!


Selam

all you said was that JAH RASTAFARI means JAH LORD OF CREATION which is in accord with the Rastafarian declaration of faith. but which is in direct opposition to the Orthodox Faith. Rastafari is not LORD OF CREATION is what I have been saying to you and what you inssit will continue to use regardless.

In Christ,
Hiwot.
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« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2011, 01:56:02 PM »

I don't know too much about this topic and I am REALLY curious to hear your response to Hiwot's dissection of the terminology, Gebre. Nothing about personal issues or faith, just the use of the words "Jah" and "Rastafari." A purely linguistic argument, if you will.

Yeah, I understand your interest. But I've explained it clearly already on this thread. If you don't mind, please go back and read what I've already posted. Thanks!


Selam

all you said was that JAH RASTAFARI means JAH LORD OF CREATION which is in accord with the Rastafarian declaration of faith. but which is in direct opposition to the Orthodox Faith. Rastafari is not LORD OF CREATION is what I have been saying to you and what you inssit will continue to use regardless.

In Christ,
Hiwot.

Dear sister, once again you are in error. That is not all that I said. Please take the time to go back a re-read my comments. If you think that I am an idolater and a liar, then I once again ask that you pray for me a sinner. No need to continue to your argumentative behavior. OK? Thank you my sister.


Selam
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« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2011, 01:59:14 PM »

I'm sorry, Gebre, if it seems like Hiwot or I am questioning your faith. I cannot speak for Hiwot, but for myself I think I should explain why I wrote all that, because it certainly wasn't to question your faith or your commitment to evangelizing the wayward Rastafarians and bring them to Orthodoxy, both of which are commendable.

My only point in elaborating what I wrote a few minutes ago (only the last sentence of which really addressed you specifically) would be to say this: Certainly of all the people here, I would not consider myself the least bit qualified or even desiring to judge the orthodoxy of  your faith or anyone's faith. I am not Orthodox! But in my short time of exploring Orthodoxy I have noticed a recurring message in it, sometimes explicit and sometimes implicit: We, whether we are formally "Orthodox" or not, must desire to be Orthodox, and work to be Orthodox, every day and in every way we can. So, forgive me, but when I read about someone retaining unorthodox practices from their past, I am confused. Saying "Jah Rastafari", no matter what justification you may have of it, is not part of the Orthodox faith. "Ras Tafari" was himself Orthodox and never equated himself or placed himself beside God as that mantra does, even if you do not personally understand it as doing that. So, yeah, it seems odd. Again, I'm not questioning your faith or your commitment to it, so much as wondering why this is retained in light of what you know to be the truth. It is NOT the truth that Rastafari and "Jah" have the sort of relation that the Rastafrians say they do. One is a servant and the other is his Master, and as we all know, a servant cannot be greater than his master.

Believe me, my friend, I am not writing any this from a place of haughty self-regard, but because I am deep in this same sort of struggle. Coming from a Roman Catholic background, there is a lot to be unlearned and discarded, especially since I am attending a Coptic Orthodox church and seeking union with it, and not an Eastern Orthodox Church (as the Easterners have about 600 more years of common, if shaky, history with Rome than Alexandria does, I suspect it is probably easier and certainly much more common for ex-RCs to swim the Bosphorus than the Nile). But that's the key: You have to want to give those things up. If you do not see this "Jah Rastafari" business as inherently unorthodox, then I suppose that's one thing. But the fact that fellow Ethiopian Orthodox people have expressed concern about it would give me pause if I were you.

I am unorthodox and do not seek to judge anyone. I can only reflect on HH Pope Shenouda III's saying that we oppose ideas, not people. So I will close by saying that I oppose this idea that "Jah Rastafari" has anything to do with or any place within Orthodox Christianity, and pray that God enlighten all of our paths along the narrow road to salvation. Please pray for me, a sinner.
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« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2011, 02:15:04 PM »

I don't know too much about this topic and I am REALLY curious to hear your response to Hiwot's dissection of the terminology, Gebre. Nothing about personal issues or faith, just the use of the words "Jah" and "Rastafari." A purely linguistic argument, if you will.

Yeah, I understand your interest. But I've explained it clearly already on this thread. If you don't mind, please go back and read what I've already posted. Thanks!


Selam

all you said was that JAH RASTAFARI means JAH LORD OF CREATION which is in accord with the Rastafarian declaration of faith. but which is in direct opposition to the Orthodox Faith. Rastafari is not LORD OF CREATION is what I have been saying to you and what you inssit will continue to use regardless.

In Christ,
Hiwot.

Dear sister, once again you are in error. That is not all that I said. Please take the time to go back a re-read my comments. If you think that I am an idolater and a liar, then I once again ask that you pray for me a sinner. No need to continue to your argumentative behavior. OK? Thank you my sister.


Selam



I have no wish to engage in a circular argument gebre, The issue of the matter at hand is what is meant when the Rastafarian pray and greet one another and sing their hymns by uttering JAH RASTAFARI . once we clarify the meaning of the term and its horrific blasphemy, I expect no orthodox to repeat it let alone insist that it can be said and one can remain orthodox at the same time. that to me is unacceptable. it is as simple as that. Christians during the pascal season especially we greet each other and sing saying CHRIST IS RISEN! it is the foundation of our christian faith. now if someone was to say PAUL IS RISEN, I will oppose it vehemently because names do matter, words and their meanings do matter. now all I am saying is please abandon such utterance which is heretical , and please teach those who continue to say such a thing to stop if they want to become Orthodox Christians JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI!!! there is no way around this fact. they must be all willing to renounce such heresy.

Do not greet them saying JAH RASTAFARI I , RASTAFARI JAH or this would be misleading them, instead tell them to stop saying such a thing because JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI & RASTAFARI IS NOT JAH! this is how one talks to those who are mislead to  believe and say JAH  RASTAFARI. because we can not and should not affirm others in their errors which can cost them their very souls, and we can not be teachers of the young when we are straggling with the same / similar attachment to falsehood that they hold on to.

in what is important I find silence to be the gravest sin that will be an icing to top all my other sins. So out of fear of His judgement I speak .

In Christ,
Hiwot
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Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
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« Reply #47 on: November 09, 2011, 02:20:24 PM »

I'm sorry, Gebre, if it seems like Hiwot or I am questioning your faith. I cannot speak for Hiwot, but for myself I think I should explain why I wrote all that, because it certainly wasn't to question your faith or your commitment to evangelizing the wayward Rastafarians and bring them to Orthodoxy, both of which are commendable.

My only point in elaborating what I wrote a few minutes ago (only the last sentence of which really addressed you specifically) would be to say this: Certainly of all the people here, I would not consider myself the least bit qualified or even desiring to judge the orthodoxy of  your faith or anyone's faith. I am not Orthodox! But in my short time of exploring Orthodoxy I have noticed a recurring message in it, sometimes explicit and sometimes implicit: We, whether we are formally "Orthodox" or not, must desire to be Orthodox, and work to be Orthodox, every day and in every way we can. So, forgive me, but when I read about someone retaining unorthodox practices from their past, I am confused. Saying "Jah Rastafari", no matter what justification you may have of it, is not part of the Orthodox faith. "Ras Tafari" was himself Orthodox and never equated himself or placed himself beside God as that mantra does, even if you do not personally understand it as doing that. So, yeah, it seems odd. Again, I'm not questioning your faith or your commitment to it, so much as wondering why this is retained in light of what you know to be the truth. It is NOT the truth that Rastafari and "Jah" have the sort of relation that the Rastafrians say they do. One is a servant and the other is his Master, and as we all know, a servant cannot be greater than his master.

Believe me, my friend, I am not writing any this from a place of haughty self-regard, but because I am deep in this same sort of struggle. Coming from a Roman Catholic background, there is a lot to be unlearned and discarded, especially since I am attending a Coptic Orthodox church and seeking union with it, and not an Eastern Orthodox Church (as the Easterners have about 600 more years of common, if shaky, history with Rome than Alexandria does, I suspect it is probably easier and certainly much more common for ex-RCs to swim the Bosphorus than the Nile). But that's the key: You have to want to give those things up. If you do not see this "Jah Rastafari" business as inherently unorthodox, then I suppose that's one thing. But the fact that fellow Ethiopian Orthodox people have expressed concern about it would give me pause if I were you.

I am unorthodox and do not seek to judge anyone. I can only reflect on HH Pope Shenouda III's saying that we oppose ideas, not people. So I will close by saying that I oppose this idea that "Jah Rastafari" has anything to do with or any place within Orthodox Christianity, and pray that God enlighten all of our paths along the narrow road to salvation. Please pray for me, a sinner.



Thank you for expressing your concerns and doing so in a non-judgmental manner. I really appreciate that! I have no problem whatsoever with Orthodox Christians questioning why it is I still say "JAH! Rastafari!". I am happy to explain it just as I have done on this thread. I have NEVER stated that this phrase is integral to my Orthodox Faith.

There are Orthodox Christians on this forum who believe that abortion should be legal, who believe in homosexual marriage, and who vote for warmongering and abortion-defending politicians. I find such views and actions quite unOrthodox and downright evil, but I still would never dare to question the faith and sincerity of these brethren or accuse them of idolatry.

In spite of my repeated efforts to explain what I mean, Hiwot seems intent on telling me that I mean something else. In spite of the fact that I repeatedly state that I DO NOT worship Haile Selassie, she seems intent on insinuating that I do. It's very frustrating, and it makes me very sad.


I strive to be Orthodox in every facet of my life, although I fall short due to my numerous sins. But when I was Baptized, I abandoned all my former subjective beliefs and opinions and pledged to conform all my thoughts, actions, and philosophies to Jesus Christ and the Teachings and Traditions of His Church. I am always learning, and I have learned much from many of Hiwot's beautiful posts. But I don't tolerate anyone telling me what I believe or what I mean. That is judgmental and arrogant, and such unfounded accusations are not profitable.

Thank you again for your sincere questions and concerns.


Selam
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« Reply #48 on: November 09, 2011, 02:23:57 PM »

I don't know too much about this topic and I am REALLY curious to hear your response to Hiwot's dissection of the terminology, Gebre. Nothing about personal issues or faith, just the use of the words "Jah" and "Rastafari." A purely linguistic argument, if you will.

Yeah, I understand your interest. But I've explained it clearly already on this thread. If you don't mind, please go back and read what I've already posted. Thanks!


Selam

all you said was that JAH RASTAFARI means JAH LORD OF CREATION which is in accord with the Rastafarian declaration of faith. but which is in direct opposition to the Orthodox Faith. Rastafari is not LORD OF CREATION is what I have been saying to you and what you inssit will continue to use regardless.

In Christ,
Hiwot.

Dear sister, once again you are in error. That is not all that I said. Please take the time to go back a re-read my comments. If you think that I am an idolater and a liar, then I once again ask that you pray for me a sinner. No need to continue to your argumentative behavior. OK? Thank you my sister.


Selam



I have no wish to engage in a circular argument gebre, The issue of the matter at hand is what is meant when the Rastafarian pray and greet one another and sing their hymns by uttering JAH RASTAFARI . once we clarify the meaning of the term and its horrific blasphemy, I expect no orthodox to repeat it let alone insist that it can be said and one can remain orthodox at the same time. that to me is unacceptable. it is as simple as that. Christians during the pascal season especially we greet each other and sing saying CHRIST IS RISEN! it is the foundation of our christian faith. now if someone was to say PAUL IS RISEN, I will oppose it vehemently because names do matter, words and their meanings do matter. now all I am saying is please abandon such utterance which is heretical , and please teach those who continue to say such a thing to stop if they want to become Orthodox Christians JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI!!! there is no way around this fact. they must be all willing to renounce such heresy.

Do not greet them saying JAH RASTAFARI I , RASTAFARI JAH or this would be misleading them, instead tell them to stop saying such a thing because JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI & RASTAFARI IS NOT JAH! this is how one talks to those who are mislead to  believe and say JAH  RASTAFARI. because we can not and should not affirm others in their errors which can cost them their very souls, and we can not be teachers of the young when we are straggling with the same / similar attachment to falsehood that they hold on to.

in what is important I find silence to be the gravest sin that will be an icing to top all my other sins. So out of fear of His judgement I speak .

In Christ,
Hiwot

Hiwot: What are you doing to minister to and evangelize Rastafarians? If you feel so strongly about the matter, then why don't you invest your energy in reaching out to them and leading them out of their idolatry instead of fighting down your Orthodox Tewahedo brother?


Selam
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« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2011, 02:38:14 PM »

I don't know too much about this topic and I am REALLY curious to hear your response to Hiwot's dissection of the terminology, Gebre. Nothing about personal issues or faith, just the use of the words "Jah" and "Rastafari." A purely linguistic argument, if you will.

Yeah, I understand your interest. But I've explained it clearly already on this thread. If you don't mind, please go back and read what I've already posted. Thanks!


Selam

all you said was that JAH RASTAFARI means JAH LORD OF CREATION which is in accord with the Rastafarian declaration of faith. but which is in direct opposition to the Orthodox Faith. Rastafari is not LORD OF CREATION is what I have been saying to you and what you inssit will continue to use regardless.

In Christ,
Hiwot.

Dear sister, once again you are in error. That is not all that I said. Please take the time to go back a re-read my comments. If you think that I am an idolater and a liar, then I once again ask that you pray for me a sinner. No need to continue to your argumentative behavior. OK? Thank you my sister.


Selam



I have no wish to engage in a circular argument gebre, The issue of the matter at hand is what is meant when the Rastafarian pray and greet one another and sing their hymns by uttering JAH RASTAFARI . once we clarify the meaning of the term and its horrific blasphemy, I expect no orthodox to repeat it let alone insist that it can be said and one can remain orthodox at the same time. that to me is unacceptable. it is as simple as that. Christians during the pascal season especially we greet each other and sing saying CHRIST IS RISEN! it is the foundation of our christian faith. now if someone was to say PAUL IS RISEN, I will oppose it vehemently because names do matter, words and their meanings do matter. now all I am saying is please abandon such utterance which is heretical , and please teach those who continue to say such a thing to stop if they want to become Orthodox Christians JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI!!! there is no way around this fact. they must be all willing to renounce such heresy.

Do not greet them saying JAH RASTAFARI I , RASTAFARI JAH or this would be misleading them, instead tell them to stop saying such a thing because JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI & RASTAFARI IS NOT JAH! this is how one talks to those who are mislead to  believe and say JAH  RASTAFARI. because we can not and should not affirm others in their errors which can cost them their very souls, and we can not be teachers of the young when we are straggling with the same / similar attachment to falsehood that they hold on to.

in what is important I find silence to be the gravest sin that will be an icing to top all my other sins. So out of fear of His judgement I speak .

In Christ,
Hiwot

Hiwot: What are you doing to minister to and evangelize Rastafarians? If you feel so strongly about the matter, then why don't you invest your energy in reaching out to them and leading them out of their idolatry instead of fighting down your Orthodox Tewahedo brother?


Selam


HAHAHA Gebre, Oh I am first trying to see if this said orthodox brother who is insisting to continuing to saying  JAH RASTAFARI and who also claimes to be the teacher and minster of those who are Rastafarian's( who also say with him JAH RASTAFARI , AMEN to his JAH RASTAFARI utterance)  could conform to the Orthodox Faith and say JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI first to himself and then perhaps he can tell it to those whom he said he is ministering to.

God willing the confirmation to faith of the self proclaimed messanger of the Faith will make sure that those who hear the message hear the Orthodox Faith and not another JAH RASTAFARI  speech.

In Christ,
Hiwot.
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Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
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« Reply #50 on: November 09, 2011, 02:51:23 PM »

I don't know too much about this topic and I am REALLY curious to hear your response to Hiwot's dissection of the terminology, Gebre. Nothing about personal issues or faith, just the use of the words "Jah" and "Rastafari." A purely linguistic argument, if you will.

Yeah, I understand your interest. But I've explained it clearly already on this thread. If you don't mind, please go back and read what I've already posted. Thanks!


Selam

all you said was that JAH RASTAFARI means JAH LORD OF CREATION which is in accord with the Rastafarian declaration of faith. but which is in direct opposition to the Orthodox Faith. Rastafari is not LORD OF CREATION is what I have been saying to you and what you inssit will continue to use regardless.

In Christ,
Hiwot.

Dear sister, once again you are in error. That is not all that I said. Please take the time to go back a re-read my comments. If you think that I am an idolater and a liar, then I once again ask that you pray for me a sinner. No need to continue to your argumentative behavior. OK? Thank you my sister.


Selam



I have no wish to engage in a circular argument gebre, The issue of the matter at hand is what is meant when the Rastafarian pray and greet one another and sing their hymns by uttering JAH RASTAFARI . once we clarify the meaning of the term and its horrific blasphemy, I expect no orthodox to repeat it let alone insist that it can be said and one can remain orthodox at the same time. that to me is unacceptable. it is as simple as that. Christians during the pascal season especially we greet each other and sing saying CHRIST IS RISEN! it is the foundation of our christian faith. now if someone was to say PAUL IS RISEN, I will oppose it vehemently because names do matter, words and their meanings do matter. now all I am saying is please abandon such utterance which is heretical , and please teach those who continue to say such a thing to stop if they want to become Orthodox Christians JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI!!! there is no way around this fact. they must be all willing to renounce such heresy.

Do not greet them saying JAH RASTAFARI I , RASTAFARI JAH or this would be misleading them, instead tell them to stop saying such a thing because JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI & RASTAFARI IS NOT JAH! this is how one talks to those who are mislead to  believe and say JAH  RASTAFARI. because we can not and should not affirm others in their errors which can cost them their very souls, and we can not be teachers of the young when we are straggling with the same / similar attachment to falsehood that they hold on to.

in what is important I find silence to be the gravest sin that will be an icing to top all my other sins. So out of fear of His judgement I speak .

In Christ,
Hiwot



Hiwot: What are you doing to minister to and evangelize Rastafarians? If you feel so strongly about the matter, then why don't you invest your energy in reaching out to them and leading them out of their idolatry instead of fighting down your Orthodox Tewahedo brother?


Selam


HAHAHA Gebre, Oh I am first trying to see if this said orthodox brother who is insisting to continuing to saying  JAH RASTAFARI and who also claimes to be the teacher and minster of those who are Rastafarian's( who also say with him JAH RASTAFARI , AMEN to his JAH RASTAFARI utterance)  could conform to the Orthodox Faith and say JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI first to himself and then perhaps he can tell it to those whom he said he is ministering to.

God willing the confirmation to faith of the self proclaimed messanger of the Faith will make sure that those who hear the message hear the Orthodox Faith and not another JAH RASTAFARI  speech.

In Christ,
Hiwot.

Perhaps if you take the time to read my book, you will see how devoted I am to proclaiming the Orthodox Tewahedo Faith. But you nevertheless question my Faith and question my Baptism. Judge me if you wish, but it is not you whom I will stand before on the Day of Judgment.

I do not wish to argue anymore with you, as this whole conversation has made me very sad already. I am sorry that you do not view me as your Orthodox Christian brother, but I will consider you my sister all the same.

Peace to you in Our Lord and Savior Eyesus Kristos!

Besisme Ab, WeWolde, We Menfes Qidus, Ahadu Amlak, -amen-


Selam
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« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2011, 02:57:54 PM »

In spite of my repeated efforts to explain what I mean, Hiwot seems intent on telling me that I mean something else. In spite of the fact that I repeatedly state that I DO NOT worship Haile Selassie, she seems intent on insinuating that I do. It's very frustrating, and it makes me very sad.

I suppose the problem with this is that you (or I, or anyone here) do not get to decide what words mean. Meaning, as a linguistic concept and especially with regard to our Christian history, is a matter of community agreement (this is a simplified explanation, but I'm assuming you don't want to read a bunch of linguistic literature, so just trust me that this is basically the case). As regards the faith, I assume that you can appreciate how this has played out: In councils we have decided what is acceptable in our creeds as an expression of our faith and what is not. When this model has been violated, it has led to grievous damage to the church by the various heretics who have decided that what we should really mean is ______. So we do not accept this as a means of expressing the truth of the Christian faith. I do not mean at all to compare you or equate with you the condemned Arius, Nestorius, et al., but to say (as much for my own benefit as anyone else's) that relying on our own logic and not submitting ourselves to the wise judgment of our fathers inherently produces deviation.

Quote
I strive to be Orthodox in every facet of my life, although I fall short due to my numerous sins. But when I was Baptized, I abandoned all my former subjective beliefs and opinions and pledged to conform all my thoughts, actions, and philosophies to Jesus Christ and the Teachings and Traditions of His Church.


God bless you in your striving. May He give you strength and wisdom in all things.

Quote
I am always learning, and I have learned much from many of Hiwot's beautiful posts. But I don't tolerate anyone telling me what I believe or what I mean. That is judgmental and arrogant, and such unfounded accusations are not profitable.

But to what end is this supposed judgment? I understand from your replies that you feel that you are unfairly personally judged. This is why I included the bit from HH Pope Shenouda III about opposing ideas, not people. If I oppose your ideas not any less than anyone else, will you address my concerns safely in the knowledge that I am not pitting myself against you, but only confused as to why you continue to say "Jah Rastafari"? (As I wrote in my last reply)

Because that's where I'm at, my friend. What you have written so far does not make clear to me how "Jah Rastafari" is even remotely compatible with Orthodoxy, but that you believe it carries a certain meaning for you when you say it. I could very well say the same about the "filioque" clause (the closest thing that I can think of from my own background that might be analogous to this situation), but the fact remains that if I continue to pronounce it and believe it in some way, I will not be baptized. Why? Because the filioque is not part of the Orthodox faith.

I hope the parallel is not taken as a personal attack. I actually have had no trouble giving up the filioque (as I always had problems with it as an RC), but I am trying to relate to you, Gebre. Please keep that in mind, should you choose to respond.
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« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2011, 03:05:40 PM »

I judge you not! although you insist that you are persecuted when all that has been questioned is why you insist to cry out JAH RASTAFARI, and say it is an orthodox thing to do. were I to err from the orthodox faith I would pray for my brothers and sisters to correct me in the orthodox faith , it would be a kindness to me, and I would gladly receive it from their hands,even if they were to strike me I would see it as mercy. if you count all the above conversation as some sort of persecution , indeed you are free to do so. and I will rest my case as all that has to be said is said and done in the matter of affirming the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church rejects any form of blasphemous utterance that link the person of rastafari as the Almighty in any form or shape and most specifically those who still confess the Rastafarian creed that says JAH RASTAFARI.

In Christ,
Hiwot.
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« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2011, 03:12:16 PM »

In spite of my repeated efforts to explain what I mean, Hiwot seems intent on telling me that I mean something else. In spite of the fact that I repeatedly state that I DO NOT worship Haile Selassie, she seems intent on insinuating that I do. It's very frustrating, and it makes me very sad.

I suppose the problem with this is that you (or I, or anyone here) do not get to decide what words mean. Meaning, as a linguistic concept and especially with regard to our Christian history, is a matter of community agreement (this is a simplified explanation, but I'm assuming you don't want to read a bunch of linguistic literature, so just trust me that this is basically the case). As regards the faith, I assume that you can appreciate how this has played out: In councils we have decided what is acceptable in our creeds as an expression of our faith and what is not. When this model has been violated, it has led to grievous damage to the church by the various heretics who have decided that what we should really mean is ______. So we do not accept this as a means of expressing the truth of the Christian faith. I do not mean at all to compare you or equate with you the condemned Arius, Nestorius, et al., but to say (as much for my own benefit as anyone else's) that relying on our own logic and not submitting ourselves to the wise judgment of our fathers inherently produces deviation.

Quote
I strive to be Orthodox in every facet of my life, although I fall short due to my numerous sins. But when I was Baptized, I abandoned all my former subjective beliefs and opinions and pledged to conform all my thoughts, actions, and philosophies to Jesus Christ and the Teachings and Traditions of His Church.


God bless you in your striving. May He give you strength and wisdom in all things.

Quote
I am always learning, and I have learned much from many of Hiwot's beautiful posts. But I don't tolerate anyone telling me what I believe or what I mean. That is judgmental and arrogant, and such unfounded accusations are not profitable.

But to what end is this supposed judgment? I understand from your replies that you feel that you are unfairly personally judged. This is why I included the bit from HH Pope Shenouda III about opposing ideas, not people. If I oppose your ideas not any less than anyone else, will you address my concerns safely in the knowledge that I am not pitting myself against you, but only confused as to why you continue to say "Jah Rastafari"? (As I wrote in my last reply)

Because that's where I'm at, my friend. What you have written so far does not make clear to me how "Jah Rastafari" is even remotely compatible with Orthodoxy, but that you believe it carries a certain meaning for you when you say it. I could very well say the same about the "filioque" clause (the closest thing that I can think of from my own background that might be analogous to this situation), but the fact remains that if I continue to pronounce it and believe it in some way, I will not be baptized. Why? Because the filioque is not part of the Orthodox faith.

I hope the parallel is not taken as a personal attack. I actually have had no trouble giving up the filioque (as I always had problems with it as an RC), but I am trying to relate to you, Gebre. Please keep that in mind, should you choose to respond.


Thanks for your thoughts. However, I am not promoting a subjective interpretation of these words. "JAH" is found in the Bible, and is pure Hebrew. And "Rastafari" has already been well defined by sister Hiwot. I have explained that God is Lord, Ruler, Creator, and so awesome and holy as to be feared by all those in the flesh. So, when I use these words, and within the context in which I choose to use them, I am not violating any Orthodox Teaching whatsoever. Of course I would never use this phrase in Church, and I rarely use it at all, simply because I don't want to cause the type of confusion that has occurred right here on this thread

But it would be like me telling a Muslim convert to Christianity that he should never say "Allah" or "Asalaam Alaikum," and accusing him of idolatry if he continued to do so. Who am I to tell a baptized Orthodox Christian that he is an idolater simply because he sometimes says "Allah" instead of "God"?


Selam
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« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2011, 03:16:55 PM »

I judge you not! although you insist that you are persecuted when all that has been questioned is why you insist to cry out JAH RASTAFARI, and say it is an orthodox thing to do. were I to err from the orthodox faith I would pray for my brothers and sisters to correct me in the orthodox faith , it would be a kindness to me, and I would gladly receive it from their hands,even if they were to strike me I would see it as mercy. if you count all the above conversation as some sort of persecution , indeed you are free to do so. and I will rest my case as all that has to be said is said and done in the matter of affirming the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church rejects any form of blasphemous utterance that link the person of rastafari as the Almighty in any form or shape and most specifically those who still confess the Rastafarian creed that says JAH RASTAFARI.

In Christ,
Hiwot.


Read my book and then make your judgments. I don't feel "persecuted," so don't play that game with me. (I can see that you have adopted the tactics of certain others on this forum.) You don't even honor the Monarchy, yet I refrain from judging you. If I am wrong then I am open to correction, and if my Priest tells me to cease using this utterance then I will obey him. Until then, I once again ask that you pray for me a sinner. Let's end this now if you will be so kind.


Selam
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« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2011, 03:33:37 PM »

I judge you not! although you insist that you are persecuted when all that has been questioned is why you insist to cry out JAH RASTAFARI, and say it is an orthodox thing to do. were I to err from the orthodox faith I would pray for my brothers and sisters to correct me in the orthodox faith , it would be a kindness to me, and I would gladly receive it from their hands,even if they were to strike me I would see it as mercy. if you count all the above conversation as some sort of persecution , indeed you are free to do so. and I will rest my case as all that has to be said is said and done in the matter of affirming the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church rejects any form of blasphemous utterance that link the person of rastafari as the Almighty in any form or shape and most specifically those who still confess the Rastafarian creed that says JAH RASTAFARI.

In Christ,
Hiwot.


Read my book and then make your judgments. I don't feel "persecuted," so don't play that game with me. (I can see that you have adopted the tactics of certain others on this forum.) You don't even honor the Monarchy, yet I refrain from judging you. If I am wrong then I am open to correction, and if my Priest tells me to cease using this utterance then I will obey him. Until then, I once again ask that you pray for me a sinner. Let's end this now if you will be so kind.


Selam


Gebre you yourself said you are being targated personally , when rather what I have been targating was what you claim to be orthodox when you utter the JAH RASTAFARI thing, you keep resorting to how you feel sad that your faith is being questioned when there is a valid reason to question what you believe to be orthodox, you make it seem that you are above question even when you obviously say something unorthodox and proclaim it as an orthodox. I am sorry but this has been your argument over and over and over again. you are not willing to be corrected so you prolong it by saying how can you question MY faith .  If as you say others as well pointed out this feeling of persecution that you bring into an ideological argument then I would think perhaps you  might need to sit down and evaluate your behavior as well. However My point was mainly  based on your continued reference to how you are being personally targeted when it is your idea that is being challenged.

as to the matter of honoring the monarchy LOL this is too funny , I honor my kings all of them who were orthodox Christians and just leaders. I will not pray for the return of the monarchy to the present day Ethiopia, I am under no canonical rule to do so, and your political fetish has no baring upon what the Ethiopian people need in a leader .And while we are arguing a matter of  Orthodox DOGMA do not try to side step it by a political discussion. do not make this a political debate I have no wish to go into that with you, you are free to pray for the return of the monarchy. I will pray for leaders elected  democratically by all the people of Ethiopia  who are just and for the rule of Law which will be just for all.

If you say that you need to wait until your priest tells you  that the man Rastafari is not JAH  which is what you are saying when you say JAH RASTAFARI then I rest my case.

Peace to you my brother I too have no wish to converse any further.
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« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2011, 03:35:58 PM »

Since my Orthodox Faith has been questioned and attacked, I thought I would post a link to my Testimony of Baptism into the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. It makes it quite clear that I never have nor do I now worship Haile Selassie.


http://mysteryandmeaning.blogspot.com/2010/07/my-spiritual-journey.html



Selam
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« Reply #57 on: November 09, 2011, 03:44:25 PM »


If you say that you need to wait until your priest tells you  that the man Rastafarian is not JAH then I rest my case.

This is the kind of willful ignorance and deliberate misrepresentation of my views that is not only dishonest but downright shameful. The only reason I'm responding is so that others will not be misled by your slanderous comments. Once again: I DO NOT WORSHIP HAILE SELASSIE, AND I DO NOT THINK THAT THE MAN RASTAFARI IS GOD! Ok? Did you read that? Please read it again to make sure that you understand.

I am amazed that a girl of your apparrent intelligence would ignore the fact that I have said this repeatedly on this thread. I don't need my Priest to tell me this, since I am already quite aware of the fact. In fact, my Priest would NEVER have baptized me if he thought that I was in any way, shape, or form worhsipping Emperor Haile Selassie. So, I am calling you out on your dishonesty, and I hope that you will cease such inexcusable behavior.


Selam
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« Reply #58 on: November 09, 2011, 03:47:58 PM »

Thanks for your thoughts. However, I am not promoting a subjective interpretation of these words. "JAH" is found in the Bible, and is pure Hebrew. And "Rastafari" has already been well defined by sister Hiwot. I have explained that God is Lord, Ruler, Creator, and so awesome and holy as to be feared by all those in the flesh. So, when I use these words, and within the context in which I choose to use them, I am not violating any Orthodox Teaching whatsoever.

I have bolded the portions of this section of the reply that, taken in concert, make me go "Hmmmm".  Undecided Out of respect for you, I will not say any more about them, as I hope it is clear enough without belaboring the point why I am confused at this stage.

Quote
Of course I would never use this phrase in Church, and I rarely use it at all, simply because I don't want to cause the type of confusion that has occurred right here on this thread


So why use it at all, then? If it is inappropriate in the house of God, and prone to cause confusion, what good is it?

Quote
But it would be like me telling a Muslim convert to Christianity that he should never say "Allah" or "Asalaam Alaikum," and accusing him of idolatry if he continued to do so. Who am I to tell a baptized Orthodox Christian that he is an idolater simply because he sometimes says "Allah" instead of "God"?

Ah, I'm sorry my friend, I must take a harder line here than I have in the past. You see, I attend an Arabic-speaking church, and although it is far from being my first language, I can generally make my way around it with the aid of the translations provided for any words I do not know (and there are indeed many). So, since we do say "Allah" quite a lot, I must tell you that this is the most unconvincing simile that I can think of. We say "Allah" as a fact of the Arabic language having this word for "God", not because there is any syncretism going on between our Orthodox Christianity and Islam (since, of course, Arabic-speaking Christians existed for centuries before Islam reshaped the Arab culture and much of the Arabic language in its own perverse image). If Islam had never existed, "Allah" would still be the Arabic word for "God"; it just wouldn't have the Islam-specific claims attached to it that it currently has. Can the same be said of "Jah Rastafari"? If the Rastafarian blasphemy had never existed, would anyone be saying "Jah Rastafari" in any context?

I do not think so. So this is not a very good comparison.

(An aside: Among my Christian friends I say "Salam al-Masih m'akum", or just "Salam". Salam 'alaikum, while not "wrong" to say, carries a contextual meaning outside of strictly Christian-to-Christian relations that is absolutely unacceptable given the theological/imperial baggage associated with it by the Muslim Arab majority. Would that it were not the case, but as someone else has posted, words do have meaning, and if it were absolutely neutral they would greet us with it without hesitation. Instead, the history of Islam-Christian relations shows the opposite: They (the Muslims) have actually been told not to greet us with this greeting, reserving it instead for their own as an expression of in-group solidarity. See the hadith collection of Muslim [personal name], and Al-Nawawi's commentary thereupon for more on this.)
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« Reply #59 on: November 09, 2011, 03:53:38 PM »


If you say that you need to wait until your priest tells you  that the man Rastafarian is not JAH then I rest my case.

This is the kind of willful ignorance and deliberate misrepresentation of my views that is not only dishonest but downright shameful. The only reason I'm responding is so that others will not be misled by your slanderous comments. Once again: I DO NOT WORSHIP HAILE SELASSIE, AND I DO NOT THINK THAT THE MAN RASTAFARI IS GOD! Ok? Did you read that? Please read it again to make sure that you understand.

I am amazed that a girl of your apparrent intelligence would ignore the fact that I have said this repeatedly on this thread. I don't need my Priest to tell me this, since I am already quite aware of the fact. In fact, my Priest would NEVER have baptized me if he thought that I was in any way, shape, or form worhsipping Emperor Haile Selassie. So, I am calling you out on your dishonesty, and I hope that you will cease such inexcusable behavior.


Selam

Now if you do  believe that RASTAFARI is not JAH , then why do you insist  not only to use the term but claim it is Orthodox? simple answer will do. Grin
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« Reply #60 on: November 09, 2011, 04:00:01 PM »

BLESSED BE ABUNA YESEHAQ,EMISSARY OF HIS MAJESTY HAILE SELASSIE 1...BLESSED BE HAILE SELASSIE THE GREATEST TEACHER AND KINDEST WHO ASSOCIATED WITH REJECTED EXILED HUMAN BEINGS SEEKING IDENTITY,THE RASTAS,WHO WERE SCSRRED BY WRETCHED NESS OF WESTERN CIVILATIONS AND IN GOD SIGHT NEED CONSOLATION TODAY.ETHIOPIANS ARE AN UNGRATEFUL SOCIETY AND PROVEN TO BE POLITICISED  CHRISTIANS SINCE THEY REJECTED THE WORDS OF ABBA YESEHAQ THE BISHOP OF RASTAFARIANS,WHO WARNED NOT TO ELECT 2 PATRIARCHS AND THAT IS BIGGEST BLASPHEMY ERODING THE CHURCH.YES ETHIOPIA BELONG TO THE AFRO AMERICANS YU SEE IN THE GARBAGE BINS,HOME LESS,FACING PREJUDICES ,BECAUSE THEIR BROTHERS SOLD THEM FOR RICE AND PEAS.BLESSED BE THE SYMPATHISERS OF OTHER RACES WHO EMBRACE ETHIOPIA AS A SYMBOL OF DEFENCE AS THE EMPEROR WAS FATHER TO ALL NATIONS AND ABBA YESEHAQ BAPTISED ALL NATIONS OF TYHE EARTH UNDER RASTAFARI WAY OF LIFE.RASTAFARI IS A AWY OF LIFE.ITS JAMAICAN.ETHIOPIANS CANNOT EXPLAIN IT.ITS A WAY OF LIFE NOW FOR PPL WORLWIDE TO KEEP ONE FROM WRONG LIVING AS WE R ALL SINNERS AND SAME ORTHODOX CLEAN CUT ETHIOPIANS ASSISSINATE MONKS IN CHURCH AS ABBA PAULOS DID FEKADE SELASSIE WITH HIS IVOTY HANDLE PISTOL AFTER THE MONK TOLD HIM HE IS ILLEGALLY ELECTED.TELL THE CORRUPT SYNOD IN ADDIS TO STOP SENDING POLICE N GUN MEN TO JAMAICA CHURCH AS ANGLICAN AND CATHOLIC CHURCHES SUBMITTING LETTERS NOW TO PUT BABYLON IN OUR CHURCH AS WOLVES AS OUR BISHOP WAS POISONED BY HIS OWN PEOPLE OF HABESHA STOCK IN DALLAS TX.I PERSONALLY PICKED HIM UP AT AIRPORT IN NJ ,VOMITTING BLOOD BECAUSE HE DEFENDS RASTAFARIANS AND THE EMPEROR THE REAL CHRISTIAN WAY WITH LOVE.ETHIOPIANS STEREO YYPE PLL AND R ETHNIC ALOTT.NOT GOOD CHRISTIANS.THEY NEVER RECEIVE HOLY COMMUNION BUT THE KIDS AND OLD...AND WHEN YU COME TO THE WESTERN BORN CHURCH YU SEE RASTAFARIANS AND FAMILIES RECEIVING COMMUNION.GO STUDY WHO RASTAFARI IS AND LEARN BEFORE YOU JUDGE.THE LANGUAGE BARRIER IS WHAT IT IS.WHEN DEAMONS ATTACK ME ONE DAY RASTAFARI JAH WAS ONE WORD I DISCOVERED CHASED DEVILS AWAY..HOW CAN GOD HOUSE BE DIVIDED.NO ONE CAN STOP IT NOW.ITS A MYSTERY.VAIN MEN MUST OBSERVE THIS.THE RASTAFARIANS AND HARLOTS ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN BEFORE MANY OF THE PEOPLE IN BIG CHRISTIAN POSITIONS BECAUSE THEY SEEKING IDENTITY DENIED BY STEREOTYPE,AND THEY R SINCERE TO FIND THEIR SAVIOUR.LET CHRIST REMEMBER US IN HIS MERCY.JAH RAS TAFARI///YHE HEAD I FEAR...CHRIST TAFARI...CHRIST WHO I FEAR...YESUS TAFARI YESUS WHO I FEAR....ITS A JAMAICAN THING ..ONLY A JAMAICAN ACN CROSS IT...AND INTRODUCE IT TO THE WORLD.....BEHOLD ST ELIAS IS NOW IN ETHIOPIA AWAITING HIS WORK ON EARTH FOR 4 YRS..LOVE EVERYONE..THE BROTHERS N SISTERS IN SHASHEMANE NEED A HOME IN AFRICA AND THE GOV TOOK THE LAND GRANT AFTER 70 YRS.WE BUILT SCHOOLS N BUSINESS SO THE YOUNG GIRLS DONT TURN TO PROSTITUTION FOR SURVIVAL AND MOST R CHRISTIANS TOO WITH HIV..OF COURSE ETHIOPIA ,A BACKWARD COUNTRY LIKE THAT NEEDS FOREIGNERS WHO WAS STOLEN BY AHMEH GRAHN AND SOLD TO EUROPEANS FOR SLAVERY..THE JAHMA TRIBE ABBA YESEHAQ TEACH US ABOUT.YOU THINK IS A JOKE.?LIVES ARE HERE AT STEAK.FIRE PON ABORTION AND PROPAGANDA...ALL OF AFRIKA IS ETHIOPIA..ITS A CONTINENT HISTORICALLY.SURELY RASTA CAN TEACH ETHIOPIANS...RIGHT NOW WE TEACHING HABESHA KIDS IN BOSTON WHO LOST THEIR IDENTITY BECAUSE THEY BORN IN ENGLISH COUNTRY SO THEY NUST STUDY WITH RASTA WHO ABBA YESEHAQ PRINT ENGLISH PRAYER BOOKS TO UNDERSTAND THE AMHARIC LITURGY AT HAILE SELASSIE EXPENSES...GOOD OVER EVILL.AND WE WILL FIGHT IF WE FINF IT NECESSARY TO PROTECT OUR EOTC IN KINGSTON JAMAICA.GO AWAY satan.THE LORD REBUKE thee.one black love to all today.
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« Reply #61 on: November 09, 2011, 04:00:18 PM »


If you say that you need to wait until your priest tells you  that the man Rastafarian is not JAH then I rest my case.

This is the kind of willful ignorance and deliberate misrepresentation of my views that is not only dishonest but downright shameful. The only reason I'm responding is so that others will not be misled by your slanderous comments. Once again: I DO NOT WORSHIP HAILE SELASSIE, AND I DO NOT THINK THAT THE MAN RASTAFARI IS GOD! Ok? Did you read that? Please read it again to make sure that you understand.

I am amazed that a girl of your apparrent intelligence would ignore the fact that I have said this repeatedly on this thread. I don't need my Priest to tell me this, since I am already quite aware of the fact. In fact, my Priest would NEVER have baptized me if he thought that I was in any way, shape, or form worhsipping Emperor Haile Selassie. So, I am calling you out on your dishonesty, and I hope that you will cease such inexcusable behavior.


Selam

Now if you do  believe that RASTAFARI is not JAH , then why do you insist  not only to use the term but claim it is Orthodox? simple answer will do. Grin


I have answered already. Nothing more to say to you until you repent of your false accusations against me. Until you can have the integrity to do that, then I can't have a reasonable discussion with you. You have my forgiveness anyway though.


Selam
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« Reply #62 on: November 09, 2011, 04:02:38 PM »

When a person says and prays using this term ' JAH RASTAFARI' without question that person is already declaring his faith "JAH IS RASTAFARI/YAHWEH IS RASTAFARI'

IF someone says this and yet insists that no he is not saying it , is really a difficult thing to communicate with the person who is in denial of the very thing he is saying. so insted says I will use it but I will ' think of those words to mean something other than they already mean' and if I think of them that way , it will be OK and infact totally orthodox . incredible!
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« Reply #63 on: November 09, 2011, 04:05:16 PM »

BLESSED BE ABUNA YESEHAQ,EMISSARY OF HIS MAJESTY HAILE SELASSIE 1...BLESSED BE HAILE SELASSIE THE GREATEST TEACHER AND KINDEST WHO ASSOCIATED WITH REJECTED EXILED HUMAN BEINGS SEEKING IDENTITY,THE RASTAS,WHO WERE SCSRRED BY WRETCHED NESS OF WESTERN CIVILATIONS AND IN GOD SIGHT NEED CONSOLATION TODAY.ETHIOPIANS ARE AN UNGRATEFUL SOCIETY AND PROVEN TO BE POLITICISED  CHRISTIANS SINCE THEY REJECTED THE WORDS OF ABBA YESEHAQ THE BISHOP OF RASTAFARIANS,WHO WARNED NOT TO ELECT 2 PATRIARCHS AND THAT IS BIGGEST BLASPHEMY ERODING THE CHURCH.YES ETHIOPIA BELONG TO THE AFRO AMERICANS YU SEE IN THE GARBAGE BINS,HOME LESS,FACING PREJUDICES ,BECAUSE THEIR BROTHERS SOLD THEM FOR RICE AND PEAS.BLESSED BE THE SYMPATHISERS OF OTHER RACES WHO EMBRACE ETHIOPIA AS A SYMBOL OF DEFENCE AS THE EMPEROR WAS FATHER TO ALL NATIONS AND ABBA YESEHAQ BAPTISED ALL NATIONS OF TYHE EARTH UNDER RASTAFARI WAY OF LIFE.RASTAFARI IS A AWY OF LIFE.ITS JAMAICAN.ETHIOPIANS CANNOT EXPLAIN IT.ITS A WAY OF LIFE NOW FOR PPL WORLWIDE TO KEEP ONE FROM WRONG LIVING AS WE R ALL SINNERS AND SAME ORTHODOX CLEAN CUT ETHIOPIANS ASSISSINATE MONKS IN CHURCH AS ABBA PAULOS DID FEKADE SELASSIE WITH HIS IVOTY HANDLE PISTOL AFTER THE MONK TOLD HIM HE IS ILLEGALLY ELECTED.TELL THE CORRUPT SYNOD IN ADDIS TO STOP SENDING POLICE N GUN MEN TO JAMAICA CHURCH AS ANGLICAN AND CATHOLIC CHURCHES SUBMITTING LETTERS NOW TO PUT BABYLON IN OUR CHURCH AS WOLVES AS OUR BISHOP WAS POISONED BY HIS OWN PEOPLE OF HABESHA STOCK IN DALLAS TX.I PERSONALLY PICKED HIM UP AT AIRPORT IN NJ ,VOMITTING BLOOD BECAUSE HE DEFENDS RASTAFARIANS AND THE EMPEROR THE REAL CHRISTIAN WAY WITH LOVE.ETHIOPIANS STEREO YYPE PLL AND R ETHNIC ALOTT.NOT GOOD CHRISTIANS.THEY NEVER RECEIVE HOLY COMMUNION BUT THE KIDS AND OLD...AND WHEN YU COME TO THE WESTERN BORN CHURCH YU SEE RASTAFARIANS AND FAMILIES RECEIVING COMMUNION.GO STUDY WHO RASTAFARI IS AND LEARN BEFORE YOU JUDGE.THE LANGUAGE BARRIER IS WHAT IT IS.WHEN DEAMONS ATTACK ME ONE DAY RASTAFARI JAH WAS ONE WORD I DISCOVERED CHASED DEVILS AWAY..HOW CAN GOD HOUSE BE DIVIDED.NO ONE CAN STOP IT NOW.ITS A MYSTERY.VAIN MEN MUST OBSERVE THIS.THE RASTAFARIANS AND HARLOTS ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN BEFORE MANY OF THE PEOPLE IN BIG CHRISTIAN POSITIONS BECAUSE THEY SEEKING IDENTITY DENIED BY STEREOTYPE,AND THEY R SINCERE TO FIND THEIR SAVIOUR.LET CHRIST REMEMBER US IN HIS MERCY.JAH RAS TAFARI///YHE HEAD I FEAR...CHRIST TAFARI...CHRIST WHO I FEAR...YESUS TAFARI YESUS WHO I FEAR....ITS A JAMAICAN THING ..ONLY A JAMAICAN ACN CROSS IT...AND INTRODUCE IT TO THE WORLD.....BEHOLD ST ELIAS IS NOW IN ETHIOPIA AWAITING HIS WORK ON EARTH FOR 4 YRS..LOVE EVERYONE..THE BROTHERS N SISTERS IN SHASHEMANE NEED A HOME IN AFRICA AND THE GOV TOOK THE LAND GRANT AFTER 70 YRS.WE BUILT SCHOOLS N BUSINESS SO THE YOUNG GIRLS DONT TURN TO PROSTITUTION FOR SURVIVAL AND MOST R CHRISTIANS TOO WITH HIV..OF COURSE ETHIOPIA ,A BACKWARD COUNTRY LIKE THAT NEEDS FOREIGNERS WHO WAS STOLEN BY AHMEH GRAHN AND SOLD TO EUROPEANS FOR SLAVERY..THE JAHMA TRIBE ABBA YESEHAQ TEACH US ABOUT.YOU THINK IS A JOKE.?LIVES ARE HERE AT STEAK.FIRE PON ABORTION AND PROPAGANDA...ALL OF AFRIKA IS ETHIOPIA..ITS A CONTINENT HISTORICALLY.SURELY RASTA CAN TEACH ETHIOPIANS...RIGHT NOW WE TEACHING HABESHA KIDS IN BOSTON WHO LOST THEIR IDENTITY BECAUSE THEY BORN IN ENGLISH COUNTRY SO THEY NUST STUDY WITH RASTA WHO ABBA YESEHAQ PRINT ENGLISH PRAYER BOOKS TO UNDERSTAND THE AMHARIC LITURGY AT HAILE SELASSIE EXPENSES...GOOD OVER EVILL.AND WE WILL FIGHT IF WE FINF IT NECESSARY TO PROTECT OUR EOTC IN KINGSTON JAMAICA.GO AWAY satan.THE LORD REBUKE thee.one black love to all today.

JAH! RASTAFARI!

IGZEBHIER AMASSAGAN!

BESEME AB, WE WOLDE, WE MENFES QIDUS, AHADU AMLAK, -AMIN-

Selam
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« Reply #64 on: November 09, 2011, 04:09:05 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!




I have known several Ethiopians and Rastafarians in my life. I have not known any Ethiopian Rastafarians (by which I mean Rastafrians of indigenous stock, not the immigrants who live in Ethiopia; Amhara Rastafarians, Oromo Rastafarians, Tigre Rastafarians, Sidaamo Rastafarians, etc). In fact, the two populations seem to mix about as well as oil and water. If I had to guess as to why this is, I would say that there is enough REAL religion and REAL history in Ethiopia that they probably don't have any need for any westerners' fake recasting of their country and its history and its religions. And I don't blame them. Orthodoxy, after all, is true, and Rastafarianism certainly is not. That's something I'm fairly certain Gebre would agree with, regardless of his affinities for the Rastafarian cult that I will openly admit I cannot even begin to understand.

I have, there are many dreadlocked and Rastafarian Ethiopians popping up here and there, and these are like Brother Gebre Menfes Kidus and myself, who venerate the Emperor as opposed to worship.  You are quite correct that many Rastafari peoples have many misconceptions about Ethiopia, but you must admire their faith and patriotism, when Ethiopians are BEGGING to leave their motherland, Rastafari peoples are begging to get let in! We are a testimony to Ethiopians that they should not further contribute to Ethiopia's brain drain, that the West is a facade and a myth, and that Ethiopia is Ethiopians homeland, land they should stay there!  We have called these folks "the careless Ethiopians who go down to Babylon" and this has been simply shocking to me as an Africanist.  If all the educated, wealthy Ethiopians expatriate to the US and Europe, what do they leave behind in their precious Motherland? In Ethiopia, 2/3 of all native-born physicians practice medicine abroad, meanwhile there are less than 200 OB-GYN for a nation of over 35,000,000 women and girls? That is a far more shocking statistic than any Rastafari peoples misusing the Emperor's name Wink  

What is the harm of Rastafari peoples idealizing and relocating to Ethiopia, if in the long run it is provoking Ethiopians to jealousy like Romans 11 and causing them so reaffirm their own cultural, historical, and political identity?  While Rastafari peoples indeed have a lot of realistic things to learn from Ethiopians, surely there are mutual things we can learn from each other.  


Quote from: Hiwot
Selam to all,

OK in the hope of correcting the kind of blasphemy  which is sickening and yet that masquerades itself as something right and that needs to be openly rejected and condemned I will give the meaning of those words that  Gebre seems to mistakenly believe  that Rastafari= to head of creation. Gebre by your definition if ras is head which is true but is only a princely title, then teferi must be creation which in reality it is not, not even remotely close by any etymology of the term. infact here is the meaning of Teferi. the root word is ' ferehat'/ Fear and  the other words derived from it are ' feri'/ coward/  , Asferi/ terrifying/( a word used for events , animals, objects , ideas) whereas when one wants to use it to a person's relation to others we use the word Teferi/ one who is feared by others,terrifying/ it is also related to being respected when it is used as a persons name, and this has mostly to do with being a warrior. now the other false interpretation or more like a rationalisation of former affection, is to say the term JAH only refers to jan-hoye, which is the Ethiopian colloquial way of saying "O King" for the king, how on earth did this traditional term used only for MEN who have become kings, suddenly become distorted by some to mean The LORD JEHOVA? which is what JAH means. Lord have mercy!!! I tremble for those who would dare to say such a thing! I find this most distressing and repulsive.



Now we have cleared that up, I hope in all honesty all those who call themselves members of the Orthodox Church need to abandon any form of former idolatry either hidden in their baggage, or mistakenly still Carry with themselves as a jewellery of sorts. ( Genesis 31:19-35,When Laban had gone to shear his sheep, Rachel stole her father’s household gods.....  But why did you steal my gods?”


 private veneration of a faithful departed should be done in the proper christian manner and in private. anythingelse is foreign to the Apostolic Tradition of the Church. however Idolatry is indirect opposition to everything we believe in and hold dear.


yes, you have correctly pointed out a common Rastafari misconception, but you also were aware that many Rastafari folks speak Amharic and know the corrections? Further, in the concept of Ras Tafari, this phrase has a dual meaning.  The literal meaning is "Head Feared-One" as you've already pointed out, so some folks are merely affirming that God is one to be Feared.  Folks like myself, who do not worship but do continue venerate the Emperor, use this term to acknowledge that it is through the Person of Ras Tafari, who is HIM Haile Selassie I, that God Almighty perpetuates His Divine Theocratic Order of Creation, that the modern, colonial, Babylonian world is a merely a facade, a dirty mirror like Paul mentioned, but the Truth of God is remaining in His Kingdom and through David His servant.  On my wall is a poster made by Ethiopian patriots (not Rastas) which has pictures of HIM with dozens of key world leaders, and you know that to this day HIM is the most widely traveled Head of State, having visited the leaders of almost EVERY SINGLE country of HIM time? We in Rastafari acknowledge HIM as the seat of Divine Authority, even in secular governments of the world, and all this secular authority is almost superstitiously attributed to the Throne and Person of HIM, but God's Grace, hence why the Emperor is titled "Elect of God" and "Light of This World", the this emphasizing that HIM authority is temporal and contemporary.  So when some of us chant up Rastafari, we are acknowledge that God sets the world in its order, and HIM is part of the turning that sacred, cosmic Wheel.

You know we didn't shorten Jah from Janhoy, that is literally a linguistic coincidence, Rastafari people use the term JAH from their good KJV Bibles, Psalms 68:4, which reads "Jah" instead of the Hebrew "Yah".  We were using this term before we even knew who HIM was, back when the pioneer Elders of Rastafari in colonial Jamaica were organizing around Marcus Mosiah Garvey's movement in the bush while venerating the memory of Atse Menelik II, who brought Abyssinianism into the black world when he succeeded against the Italians, and became a bastion for black independence worldwide.  We knew about Abyssinia long before HIM coronation, which is precisely why we still use the pre-coronation "Ras Tafari" because our relationship with HIM Haile Selassie I is from the 1920s as HIM stepped up as Ras and then Negus Tafari, stepping up towards the Throne in God's Good Grace.


Now as to your accusations of blasphemy, you should be careful.  The Bishops and priests who baptize and fellowship with we, thousands of Rastafari members of the Orthodox Church, have not been as strictly vocal about this as you, maybe we could learn by their Apostolic example rather then our own arguments? Only God can convert the hearts of blasphemy, your thoughtful arguments won't convince anyone, it will only put folks on the defense.  Rather, the Orthodox stands true, and HIM sent the Orthodox precisely to the Rastafari people to sort out all these misconceptions.  If HIM can personally step off the plane, meet and great thousands of Rastafari peoples, and then proceed to a conference with the Rastafari Elders that lasted several hours, where HIM awarded several Elders with Medals and Honorific positions, while HIM personally choreographed what would become the founding of the first Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church Archdiocese and Bishopric outside of African and Jerusalem, and where as it founded? Not in New York, or DC, or London, or any of these places, it was founded in Trinidad! I applaud your sincerity, but you might be a bit over zealous, and as we in Rastafari say, "Them got the zeal but them got the wrong ideal."
The link below shows a very rare video of a fairly complete liturgy celebrated by Pope Kyrillos VI.  As you know Pope Kyrillos and HIM had a tremendous bond of affection.  Everyone was always naked before Pope Kyrillos, he saw straight through the souls of all who stood before him. So for me, Pope Kyrillos' great love for HIM says much.

Go to the beginning of the video starting around 1:56 and you can see Pope Kyrillos and HIM standing next to each other with arms locked together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O06mE21xiM&feature=share

In Christ,
Fr. Kyrillos
Simply gorgeous, thank you for posting this Father it moves me so deeply to see Janhoy and His Holiness sincerely embracing like fond brothers I dare say it even looks like the are comforting each other in the hectic environment of the crowd, like nervous siblings or even a child with HIM parents (HH being the Father, HIM being the child),.  It is so crucial to post things like this, which is why I posted this thread, because folks need to see HIM from the Orthodox lens, and stop letting Rastafari mix them up, Rastafari culture is for Rastafari people, but HIM is for everybody Smiley

Selassie I Jah!

I have no problem with the royal titles bestowed upon HIM. They are by no means unique to the Ethiopian monarchy.

However, the phrase "Selassie I Jah" is blasphemy. Haile Selassie was a mere man, not Jah. I know Selassie means Trinity, the Trinity is, of course, Jah. But "Selassie I" is the title given to Tafari Makonen. Those who shout "Selassie I Jah" or "Jah Rastafari" are not Orthodox but the worshippers of men.

You simply misunderstand our unique, Rastafari nomenclature.  Just as we in Rastafari practice a concept of "I-speak" (which is a way of changing all the first letters of words to "I" to emphasize the "I-ity/unity" of all Creation and hence the inherent equality of all things) we also have very particular ways of addressing names and titles.  In Rastafari we also bear the names "Jah", for example a good brother of mine is known internationally as "Jah Faith" and many folks know me as "Jah Chris" and many many of the Elders of Rastafari bear these titles.  We are not calling each other as God specifically, we are referencing that God is within us all equally being created as humans in His Image.  So when I call brother Jah Faith by this title, I am acknowledging that God dwells in this brother, as He dwells in us all.  So when we in Rastafari apply this title towards HIM, we are not all necessarily affirming HIM as God Incarnate rather we are acknowledging that God is in HIM as God is in us all.  True, many Rastafari folks acknowledge HIM as "Jah" implying HIM is God Almighty, but that is their misconception, in the origins and roots and etymologies of Rastafari culture this is simply not the case.  We have been calling each other "Jah" for over 70 years now, and when those of us in this category call HIM "Selassie I Jah" we are reaffirming the power of God cooperating in the Synergy of the Holy Spirit in the Personality of HIM.  HIM, as THE Universal Christian sovereign, is the source of the "Jah" titles among human beings, because a the Emperor, HIM is the seat of Divine Authority on the Earth.  We look to HIM to see God cooperating in synergy with world affairs and governments, and so we rightfully site HIM as the first "Jah".  I would be silly to say that many many Rastafari peoples do not see HIM as God, but it would be equally misrepresenting to assume that ALL folks who are Rastafari and use these terms are saying this, Rastafari is a diverse movement.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #65 on: November 09, 2011, 04:10:49 PM »

BLESSED BE ABUNA YESEHAQ,EMISSARY OF HIS MAJESTY HAILE SELASSIE 1...BLESSED BE HAILE SELASSIE THE GREATEST TEACHER AND KINDEST WHO ASSOCIATED WITH REJECTED EXILED HUMAN BEINGS SEEKING IDENTITY,THE RASTAS,WHO WERE SCSRRED BY WRETCHED NESS OF WESTERN CIVILATIONS AND IN GOD SIGHT NEED CONSOLATION TODAY.ETHIOPIANS ARE AN UNGRATEFUL SOCIETY AND PROVEN TO BE POLITICISED  CHRISTIANS SINCE THEY REJECTED THE WORDS OF ABBA YESEHAQ THE BISHOP OF RASTAFARIANS,WHO WARNED NOT TO ELECT 2 PATRIARCHS AND THAT IS BIGGEST BLASPHEMY ERODING THE CHURCH.YES ETHIOPIA BELONG TO THE AFRO AMERICANS YU SEE IN THE GARBAGE BINS,HOME LESS,FACING PREJUDICES ,BECAUSE THEIR BROTHERS SOLD THEM FOR RICE AND PEAS.BLESSED BE THE SYMPATHISERS OF OTHER RACES WHO EMBRACE ETHIOPIA AS A SYMBOL OF DEFENCE AS THE EMPEROR WAS FATHER TO ALL NATIONS AND ABBA YESEHAQ BAPTISED ALL NATIONS OF TYHE EARTH UNDER RASTAFARI WAY OF LIFE.RASTAFARI IS A AWY OF LIFE.ITS JAMAICAN.ETHIOPIANS CANNOT EXPLAIN IT.ITS A WAY OF LIFE NOW FOR PPL WORLWIDE TO KEEP ONE FROM WRONG LIVING AS WE R ALL SINNERS AND SAME ORTHODOX CLEAN CUT ETHIOPIANS ASSISSINATE MONKS IN CHURCH AS ABBA PAULOS DID FEKADE SELASSIE WITH HIS IVOTY HANDLE PISTOL AFTER THE MONK TOLD HIM HE IS ILLEGALLY ELECTED.TELL THE CORRUPT SYNOD IN ADDIS TO STOP SENDING POLICE N GUN MEN TO JAMAICA CHURCH AS ANGLICAN AND CATHOLIC CHURCHES SUBMITTING LETTERS NOW TO PUT BABYLON IN OUR CHURCH AS WOLVES AS OUR BISHOP WAS POISONED BY HIS OWN PEOPLE OF HABESHA STOCK IN DALLAS TX.I PERSONALLY PICKED HIM UP AT AIRPORT IN NJ ,VOMITTING BLOOD BECAUSE HE DEFENDS RASTAFARIANS AND THE EMPEROR THE REAL CHRISTIAN WAY WITH LOVE.ETHIOPIANS STEREO YYPE PLL AND R ETHNIC ALOTT.NOT GOOD CHRISTIANS.THEY NEVER RECEIVE HOLY COMMUNION BUT THE KIDS AND OLD...AND WHEN YU COME TO THE WESTERN BORN CHURCH YU SEE RASTAFARIANS AND FAMILIES RECEIVING COMMUNION.GO STUDY WHO RASTAFARI IS AND LEARN BEFORE YOU JUDGE.THE LANGUAGE BARRIER IS WHAT IT IS.WHEN DEAMONS ATTACK ME ONE DAY RASTAFARI JAH WAS ONE WORD I DISCOVERED CHASED DEVILS AWAY..HOW CAN GOD HOUSE BE DIVIDED.NO ONE CAN STOP IT NOW.ITS A MYSTERY.VAIN MEN MUST OBSERVE THIS.THE RASTAFARIANS AND HARLOTS ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN BEFORE MANY OF THE PEOPLE IN BIG CHRISTIAN POSITIONS BECAUSE THEY SEEKING IDENTITY DENIED BY STEREOTYPE,AND THEY R SINCERE TO FIND THEIR SAVIOUR.LET CHRIST REMEMBER US IN HIS MERCY.JAH RAS TAFARI///YHE HEAD I FEAR...CHRIST TAFARI...CHRIST WHO I FEAR...YESUS TAFARI YESUS WHO I FEAR....ITS A JAMAICAN THING ..ONLY A JAMAICAN ACN CROSS IT...AND INTRODUCE IT TO THE WORLD.....BEHOLD ST ELIAS IS NOW IN ETHIOPIA AWAITING HIS WORK ON EARTH FOR 4 YRS..LOVE EVERYONE..THE BROTHERS N SISTERS IN SHASHEMANE NEED A HOME IN AFRICA AND THE GOV TOOK THE LAND GRANT AFTER 70 YRS.WE BUILT SCHOOLS N BUSINESS SO THE YOUNG GIRLS DONT TURN TO PROSTITUTION FOR SURVIVAL AND MOST R CHRISTIANS TOO WITH HIV..OF COURSE ETHIOPIA ,A BACKWARD COUNTRY LIKE THAT NEEDS FOREIGNERS WHO WAS STOLEN BY AHMEH GRAHN AND SOLD TO EUROPEANS FOR SLAVERY..THE JAHMA TRIBE ABBA YESEHAQ TEACH US ABOUT.YOU THINK IS A JOKE.?LIVES ARE HERE AT STEAK.FIRE PON ABORTION AND PROPAGANDA...ALL OF AFRIKA IS ETHIOPIA..ITS A CONTINENT HISTORICALLY.SURELY RASTA CAN TEACH ETHIOPIANS...RIGHT NOW WE TEACHING HABESHA KIDS IN BOSTON WHO LOST THEIR IDENTITY BECAUSE THEY BORN IN ENGLISH COUNTRY SO THEY NUST STUDY WITH RASTA WHO ABBA YESEHAQ PRINT ENGLISH PRAYER BOOKS TO UNDERSTAND THE AMHARIC LITURGY AT HAILE SELASSIE EXPENSES...GOOD OVER EVILL.AND WE WILL FIGHT IF WE FINF IT NECESSARY TO PROTECT OUR EOTC IN KINGSTON JAMAICA.GO AWAY satan.THE LORD REBUKE thee.one black love to all today.


ewwwwwww, here it goes it getts better and better,
I sugest you refrain from using  the name of HH Abuna Yesehaq of Blessed memory and lie , you are not Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo member, and I will not sit by while you Scandalise my Church and my Faith, You are a racist bigot, who can not see a man beyond the color of his skin. I can not even bring to finish reading the filth you just spewed out of your malicious blaspheming mouth and heart. be aware of the curse you invite upon yourself.
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« Reply #66 on: November 09, 2011, 04:17:51 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

BLESSED BE ABUNA YESEHAQ,EMISSARY OF HIS MAJESTY HAILE SELASSIE 1...BLESSED BE HAILE SELASSIE THE GREATEST TEACHER AND KINDEST WHO ASSOCIATED WITH REJECTED EXILED HUMAN BEINGS SEEKING IDENTITY,THE RASTAS,WHO WERE SCSRRED BY WRETCHED NESS OF WESTERN CIVILATIONS AND IN GOD SIGHT NEED CONSOLATION TODAY.ETHIOPIANS ARE AN UNGRATEFUL SOCIETY AND PROVEN TO BE POLITICISED  CHRISTIANS SINCE THEY REJECTED THE WORDS OF ABBA YESEHAQ THE BISHOP OF RASTAFARIANS,WHO WARNED NOT TO ELECT 2 PATRIARCHS AND THAT IS BIGGEST BLASPHEMY ERODING THE CHURCH.YES ETHIOPIA BELONG TO THE AFRO AMERICANS YU SEE IN THE GARBAGE BINS,HOME LESS,FACING PREJUDICES ,BECAUSE THEIR BROTHERS SOLD THEM FOR RICE AND PEAS.BLESSED BE THE SYMPATHISERS OF OTHER RACES WHO EMBRACE ETHIOPIA AS A SYMBOL OF DEFENCE AS THE EMPEROR WAS FATHER TO ALL NATIONS AND ABBA YESEHAQ BAPTISED ALL NATIONS OF TYHE EARTH UNDER RASTAFARI WAY OF LIFE.RASTAFARI IS A AWY OF LIFE.ITS JAMAICAN.ETHIOPIANS CANNOT EXPLAIN IT.ITS A WAY OF LIFE NOW FOR PPL WORLWIDE TO KEEP ONE FROM WRONG LIVING AS WE R ALL SINNERS AND SAME ORTHODOX CLEAN CUT ETHIOPIANS ASSISSINATE MONKS IN CHURCH AS ABBA PAULOS DID FEKADE SELASSIE WITH HIS IVOTY HANDLE PISTOL AFTER THE MONK TOLD HIM HE IS ILLEGALLY ELECTED.TELL THE CORRUPT SYNOD IN ADDIS TO STOP SENDING POLICE N GUN MEN TO JAMAICA CHURCH AS ANGLICAN AND CATHOLIC CHURCHES SUBMITTING LETTERS NOW TO PUT BABYLON IN OUR CHURCH AS WOLVES AS OUR BISHOP WAS POISONED BY HIS OWN PEOPLE OF HABESHA STOCK IN DALLAS TX.I PERSONALLY PICKED HIM UP AT AIRPORT IN NJ ,VOMITTING BLOOD BECAUSE HE DEFENDS RASTAFARIANS AND THE EMPEROR THE REAL CHRISTIAN WAY WITH LOVE.ETHIOPIANS STEREO YYPE PLL AND R ETHNIC ALOTT.NOT GOOD CHRISTIANS.THEY NEVER RECEIVE HOLY COMMUNION BUT THE KIDS AND OLD...AND WHEN YU COME TO THE WESTERN BORN CHURCH YU SEE RASTAFARIANS AND FAMILIES RECEIVING COMMUNION.GO STUDY WHO RASTAFARI IS AND LEARN BEFORE YOU JUDGE.THE LANGUAGE BARRIER IS WHAT IT IS.WHEN DEAMONS ATTACK ME ONE DAY RASTAFARI JAH WAS ONE WORD I DISCOVERED CHASED DEVILS AWAY..HOW CAN GOD HOUSE BE DIVIDED.NO ONE CAN STOP IT NOW.ITS A MYSTERY.VAIN MEN MUST OBSERVE THIS.THE RASTAFARIANS AND HARLOTS ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN BEFORE MANY OF THE PEOPLE IN BIG CHRISTIAN POSITIONS BECAUSE THEY SEEKING IDENTITY DENIED BY STEREOTYPE,AND THEY R SINCERE TO FIND THEIR SAVIOUR.LET CHRIST REMEMBER US IN HIS MERCY.JAH RAS TAFARI///YHE HEAD I FEAR...CHRIST TAFARI...CHRIST WHO I FEAR...YESUS TAFARI YESUS WHO I FEAR....ITS A JAMAICAN THING ..ONLY A JAMAICAN ACN CROSS IT...AND INTRODUCE IT TO THE WORLD.....BEHOLD ST ELIAS IS NOW IN ETHIOPIA AWAITING HIS WORK ON EARTH FOR 4 YRS..LOVE EVERYONE..THE BROTHERS N SISTERS IN SHASHEMANE NEED A HOME IN AFRICA AND THE GOV TOOK THE LAND GRANT AFTER 70 YRS.WE BUILT SCHOOLS N BUSINESS SO THE YOUNG GIRLS DONT TURN TO PROSTITUTION FOR SURVIVAL AND MOST R CHRISTIANS TOO WITH HIV..OF COURSE ETHIOPIA ,A BACKWARD COUNTRY LIKE THAT NEEDS FOREIGNERS WHO WAS STOLEN BY AHMEH GRAHN AND SOLD TO EUROPEANS FOR SLAVERY..THE JAHMA TRIBE ABBA YESEHAQ TEACH US ABOUT.YOU THINK IS A JOKE.?LIVES ARE HERE AT STEAK.FIRE PON ABORTION AND PROPAGANDA...ALL OF AFRIKA IS ETHIOPIA..ITS A CONTINENT HISTORICALLY.SURELY RASTA CAN TEACH ETHIOPIANS...RIGHT NOW WE TEACHING HABESHA KIDS IN BOSTON WHO LOST THEIR IDENTITY BECAUSE THEY BORN IN ENGLISH COUNTRY SO THEY NUST STUDY WITH RASTA WHO ABBA YESEHAQ PRINT ENGLISH PRAYER BOOKS TO UNDERSTAND THE AMHARIC LITURGY AT HAILE SELASSIE EXPENSES...GOOD OVER EVILL.AND WE WILL FIGHT IF WE FINF IT NECESSARY TO PROTECT OUR EOTC IN KINGSTON JAMAICA.GO AWAY satan.THE LORD REBUKE thee.one black love to all today.


ewwwwwww, here it goes it getts better and better,
I sugest you refrain from using  the name of HH Abuna Yesehaq of Blessed memory and lie , you are not Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo member, and I will not sit by while you Scandalise my Church and my Faith, You are a racist bigot, who can not see a man beyond the color of his skin. I can not even bring to finish reading the filth you just spewed out of your malicious blaspheming mouth and heart. be aware of the curse you invite upon yourself.


Are you threw insulting the legacy of HH Abune Yesehaq, who loved and adored thousands of Rastafari peoples, including ALL the Elders of the movement who the first the embrace Tewahedo in the 1970s, and up until HH last breath, was preaching the Truth of Orthodox in the midst of schism and miscommunication.  HH ordained my own father-confessor, and HH baptized several of my friends, we knew HH personally, and you shouldn't be so arrogant as to assume that you have proper ownership of HH legacy simply because you are Ethiopian, and we are not, because that was not what HH was about, and therefore it is YOU sister who are misrepresenting HH, not we.

You seem to have a lot of ignorance about the tangible history between HIM, the Ethiopian Church, and the Rastafari movement, maybe you would be better to ask questions rather than make mean-spirited and dismissive accusations?

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #67 on: November 09, 2011, 04:20:50 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!




I have known several Ethiopians and Rastafarians in my life. I have not known any Ethiopian Rastafarians (by which I mean Rastafrians of indigenous stock, not the immigrants who live in Ethiopia; Amhara Rastafarians, Oromo Rastafarians, Tigre Rastafarians, Sidaamo Rastafarians, etc). In fact, the two populations seem to mix about as well as oil and water. If I had to guess as to why this is, I would say that there is enough REAL religion and REAL history in Ethiopia that they probably don't have any need for any westerners' fake recasting of their country and its history and its religions. And I don't blame them. Orthodoxy, after all, is true, and Rastafarianism certainly is not. That's something I'm fairly certain Gebre would agree with, regardless of his affinities for the Rastafarian cult that I will openly admit I cannot even begin to understand.

I have, there are many dreadlocked and Rastafarian Ethiopians popping up here and there, and these are like Brother Gebre Menfes Kidus and myself, who venerate the Emperor as opposed to worship.  You are quite correct that many Rastafari peoples have many misconceptions about Ethiopia, but you must admire their faith and patriotism, when Ethiopians are BEGGING to leave their motherland, Rastafari peoples are begging to get let in! We are a testimony to Ethiopians that they should not further contribute to Ethiopia's brain drain, that the West is a facade and a myth, and that Ethiopia is Ethiopians homeland, land they should stay there!  We have called these folks "the careless Ethiopians who go down to Babylon" and this has been simply shocking to me as an Africanist.  If all the educated, wealthy Ethiopians expatriate to the US and Europe, what do they leave behind in their precious Motherland? In Ethiopia, 2/3 of all native-born physicians practice medicine abroad, meanwhile there are less than 200 OB-GYN for a nation of over 35,000,000 women and girls? That is a far more shocking statistic than any Rastafari peoples misusing the Emperor's name Wink  

What is the harm of Rastafari peoples idealizing and relocating to Ethiopia, if in the long run it is provoking Ethiopians to jealousy like Romans 11 and causing them so reaffirm their own cultural, historical, and political identity?  While Rastafari peoples indeed have a lot of realistic things to learn from Ethiopians, surely there are mutual things we can learn from each other.  


Quote from: Hiwot
Selam to all,

OK in the hope of correcting the kind of blasphemy  which is sickening and yet that masquerades itself as something right and that needs to be openly rejected and condemned I will give the meaning of those words that  Gebre seems to mistakenly believe  that Rastafari= to head of creation. Gebre by your definition if ras is head which is true but is only a princely title, then teferi must be creation which in reality it is not, not even remotely close by any etymology of the term. infact here is the meaning of Teferi. the root word is ' ferehat'/ Fear and  the other words derived from it are ' feri'/ coward/  , Asferi/ terrifying/( a word used for events , animals, objects , ideas) whereas when one wants to use it to a person's relation to others we use the word Teferi/ one who is feared by others,terrifying/ it is also related to being respected when it is used as a persons name, and this has mostly to do with being a warrior. now the other false interpretation or more like a rationalisation of former affection, is to say the term JAH only refers to jan-hoye, which is the Ethiopian colloquial way of saying "O King" for the king, how on earth did this traditional term used only for MEN who have become kings, suddenly become distorted by some to mean The LORD JEHOVA? which is what JAH means. Lord have mercy!!! I tremble for those who would dare to say such a thing! I find this most distressing and repulsive.



Now we have cleared that up, I hope in all honesty all those who call themselves members of the Orthodox Church need to abandon any form of former idolatry either hidden in their baggage, or mistakenly still Carry with themselves as a jewellery of sorts. ( Genesis 31:19-35,When Laban had gone to shear his sheep, Rachel stole her father’s household gods.....  But why did you steal my gods?”


 private veneration of a faithful departed should be done in the proper christian manner and in private. anythingelse is foreign to the Apostolic Tradition of the Church. however Idolatry is indirect opposition to everything we believe in and hold dear.


yes, you have correctly pointed out a common Rastafari misconception, but you also were aware that many Rastafari folks speak Amharic and know the corrections? Further, in the concept of Ras Tafari, this phrase has a dual meaning.  The literal meaning is "Head Feared-One" as you've already pointed out, so some folks are merely affirming that God is one to be Feared.  Folks like myself, who do not worship but do continue venerate the Emperor, use this term to acknowledge that it is through the Person of Ras Tafari, who is HIM Haile Selassie I, that God Almighty perpetuates His Divine Theocratic Order of Creation, that the modern, colonial, Babylonian world is a merely a facade, a dirty mirror like Paul mentioned, but the Truth of God is remaining in His Kingdom and through David His servant.  On my wall is a poster made by Ethiopian patriots (not Rastas) which has pictures of HIM with dozens of key world leaders, and you know that to this day HIM is the most widely traveled Head of State, having visited the leaders of almost EVERY SINGLE country of HIM time? We in Rastafari acknowledge HIM as the seat of Divine Authority, even in secular governments of the world, and all this secular authority is almost superstitiously attributed to the Throne and Person of HIM, but God's Grace, hence why the Emperor is titled "Elect of God" and "Light of This World", the this emphasizing that HIM authority is temporal and contemporary.  So when some of us chant up Rastafari, we are acknowledge that God sets the world in its order, and HIM is part of the turning that sacred, cosmic Wheel.

You know we didn't shorten Jah from Janhoy, that is literally a linguistic coincidence, Rastafari people use the term JAH from their good KJV Bibles, Psalms 68:4, which reads "Jah" instead of the Hebrew "Yah".  We were using this term before we even knew who HIM was, back when the pioneer Elders of Rastafari in colonial Jamaica were organizing around Marcus Mosiah Garvey's movement in the bush while venerating the memory of Atse Menelik II, who brought Abyssinianism into the black world when he succeeded against the Italians, and became a bastion for black independence worldwide.  We knew about Abyssinia long before HIM coronation, which is precisely why we still use the pre-coronation "Ras Tafari" because our relationship with HIM Haile Selassie I is from the 1920s as HIM stepped up as Ras and then Negus Tafari, stepping up towards the Throne in God's Good Grace.


Now as to your accusations of blasphemy, you should be careful.  The Bishops and priests who baptize and fellowship with we, thousands of Rastafari members of the Orthodox Church, have not been as strictly vocal about this as you, maybe we could learn by their Apostolic example rather then our own arguments? Only God can convert the hearts of blasphemy, your thoughtful arguments won't convince anyone, it will only put folks on the defense.  Rather, the Orthodox stands true, and HIM sent the Orthodox precisely to the Rastafari people to sort out all these misconceptions.  If HIM can personally step off the plane, meet and great thousands of Rastafari peoples, and then proceed to a conference with the Rastafari Elders that lasted several hours, where HIM awarded several Elders with Medals and Honorific positions, while HIM personally choreographed what would become the founding of the first Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church Archdiocese and Bishopric outside of African and Jerusalem, and where as it founded? Not in New York, or DC, or London, or any of these places, it was founded in Trinidad! I applaud your sincerity, but you might be a bit over zealous, and as we in Rastafari say, "Them got the zeal but them got the wrong ideal."
The link below shows a very rare video of a fairly complete liturgy celebrated by Pope Kyrillos VI.  As you know Pope Kyrillos and HIM had a tremendous bond of affection.  Everyone was always naked before Pope Kyrillos, he saw straight through the souls of all who stood before him. So for me, Pope Kyrillos' great love for HIM says much.

Go to the beginning of the video starting around 1:56 and you can see Pope Kyrillos and HIM standing next to each other with arms locked together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O06mE21xiM&feature=share

In Christ,
Fr. Kyrillos
Simply gorgeous, thank you for posting this Father it moves me so deeply to see Janhoy and His Holiness sincerely embracing like fond brothers I dare say it even looks like the are comforting each other in the hectic environment of the crowd, like nervous siblings or even a child with HIM parents (HH being the Father, HIM being the child),.  It is so crucial to post things like this, which is why I posted this thread, because folks need to see HIM from the Orthodox lens, and stop letting Rastafari mix them up, Rastafari culture is for Rastafari people, but HIM is for everybody Smiley

Selassie I Jah!

I have no problem with the royal titles bestowed upon HIM. They are by no means unique to the Ethiopian monarchy.

However, the phrase "Selassie I Jah" is blasphemy. Haile Selassie was a mere man, not Jah. I know Selassie means Trinity, the Trinity is, of course, Jah. But "Selassie I" is the title given to Tafari Makonen. Those who shout "Selassie I Jah" or "Jah Rastafari" are not Orthodox but the worshippers of men.

You simply misunderstand our unique, Rastafari nomenclature.  Just as we in Rastafari practice a concept of "I-speak" (which is a way of changing all the first letters of words to "I" to emphasize the "I-ity/unity" of all Creation and hence the inherent equality of all things) we also have very particular ways of addressing names and titles.  In Rastafari we also bear the names "Jah", for example a good brother of mine is known internationally as "Jah Faith" and many folks know me as "Jah Chris" and many many of the Elders of Rastafari bear these titles.  We are not calling each other as God specifically, we are referencing that God is within us all equally being created as humans in His Image.  So when I call brother Jah Faith by this title, I am acknowledging that God dwells in this brother, as He dwells in us all.  So when we in Rastafari apply this title towards HIM, we are not all necessarily affirming HIM as God Incarnate rather we are acknowledging that God is in HIM as God is in us all.  True, many Rastafari folks acknowledge HIM as "Jah" implying HIM is God Almighty, but that is their misconception, in the origins and roots and etymologies of Rastafari culture this is simply not the case.  We have been calling each other "Jah" for over 70 years now, and when those of us in this category call HIM "Selassie I Jah" we are reaffirming the power of God cooperating in the Synergy of the Holy Spirit in the Personality of HIM.  HIM, as THE Universal Christian sovereign, is the source of the "Jah" titles among human beings, because a the Emperor, HIM is the seat of Divine Authority on the Earth.  We look to HIM to see God cooperating in synergy with world affairs and governments, and so we rightfully site HIM as the first "Jah".  I would be silly to say that many many Rastafari peoples do not see HIM as God, but it would be equally misrepresenting to assume that ALL folks who are Rastafari and use these terms are saying this, Rastafari is a diverse movement.

stay blessed,
habte selassie


Give thanks for these blessed words of wisdom and clarification! I hope and pray that others will humble themselves and give InI the benefit of the doubt. Let us all strive to put divisions aside and unite in Orthodox brotherly love. As the Psalmist said:

"Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!" [Psalm 133:1]


Selam
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« Reply #68 on: November 09, 2011, 04:23:23 PM »

Now I'm the one who is sad. Gebre, your brother has preached all kinds of nonsense (and LOUDLY, IN ALL CAPS WITH NO PARAGRAPH SPACES) there, in the name of defending the EOTC in Jamaica!  "Only Jamaicans" can understand (cross?) it, and it's "one black love" to all (somehow!). Where is the evangelization here, either to him from you (to correct his errors), or from him to us, if he is somehow Orthodox? I don't recognize anything like the Orthodoxy I am being taught in the Coptic Orthodox church in what he has written. We do not involve ourselves in politics, telling other nations that they are ungrateful or bad, nor has anyone ever told me that I cannot be Orthodox because I am not an ethnic Copt. To the contrary!

What IS this? Is this Orthodoxy, or black nationalism in Orthodox vestments?

What a load of garbage! I'm sorry...I can't stomach this for even a second. If that jumbled mess of nationalism and exclusionary thinking is Orthodoxy then I might as well go back to being Roman Catholic.  Undecided

Amma Syncletica has told us that just as it is impossible to be both at the same time a seed and a plant, it is impossible to be surrounded by the things of the world and the city and be holy. But I can see that some want a political and racial utopia on earth even still (and what's more see some sort of bizarre, prophetic work for their people and race in it). How sad. That's not the church, is it? Rather, what was it again that the psalmist told us? "Do not trust in princes"? Maybe that does not apply in the Rastadox mind to Haile Selassie, but that is more proof to me that the two don't mix.

I'm disgusted now. I must leave this thread rather than let the passions overtake me. Peace.
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« Reply #69 on: November 09, 2011, 04:27:32 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

BLESSED BE ABUNA YESEHAQ,EMISSARY OF HIS MAJESTY HAILE SELASSIE 1...BLESSED BE HAILE SELASSIE THE GREATEST TEACHER AND KINDEST WHO ASSOCIATED WITH REJECTED EXILED HUMAN BEINGS SEEKING IDENTITY,THE RASTAS,WHO WERE SCSRRED BY WRETCHED NESS OF WESTERN CIVILATIONS AND IN GOD SIGHT NEED CONSOLATION TODAY.ETHIOPIANS ARE AN UNGRATEFUL SOCIETY AND PROVEN TO BE POLITICISED  CHRISTIANS SINCE THEY REJECTED THE WORDS OF ABBA YESEHAQ THE BISHOP OF RASTAFARIANS,WHO WARNED NOT TO ELECT 2 PATRIARCHS AND THAT IS BIGGEST BLASPHEMY ERODING THE CHURCH.YES ETHIOPIA BELONG TO THE AFRO AMERICANS YU SEE IN THE GARBAGE BINS,HOME LESS,FACING PREJUDICES ,BECAUSE THEIR BROTHERS SOLD THEM FOR RICE AND PEAS.BLESSED BE THE SYMPATHISERS OF OTHER RACES WHO EMBRACE ETHIOPIA AS A SYMBOL OF DEFENCE AS THE EMPEROR WAS FATHER TO ALL NATIONS AND ABBA YESEHAQ BAPTISED ALL NATIONS OF TYHE EARTH UNDER RASTAFARI WAY OF LIFE.RASTAFARI IS A AWY OF LIFE.ITS JAMAICAN.ETHIOPIANS CANNOT EXPLAIN IT.ITS A WAY OF LIFE NOW FOR PPL WORLWIDE TO KEEP ONE FROM WRONG LIVING AS WE R ALL SINNERS AND SAME ORTHODOX CLEAN CUT ETHIOPIANS ASSISSINATE MONKS IN CHURCH AS ABBA PAULOS DID FEKADE SELASSIE WITH HIS IVOTY HANDLE PISTOL AFTER THE MONK TOLD HIM HE IS ILLEGALLY ELECTED.TELL THE CORRUPT SYNOD IN ADDIS TO STOP SENDING POLICE N GUN MEN TO JAMAICA CHURCH AS ANGLICAN AND CATHOLIC CHURCHES SUBMITTING LETTERS NOW TO PUT BABYLON IN OUR CHURCH AS WOLVES AS OUR BISHOP WAS POISONED BY HIS OWN PEOPLE OF HABESHA STOCK IN DALLAS TX.I PERSONALLY PICKED HIM UP AT AIRPORT IN NJ ,VOMITTING BLOOD BECAUSE HE DEFENDS RASTAFARIANS AND THE EMPEROR THE REAL CHRISTIAN WAY WITH LOVE.ETHIOPIANS STEREO YYPE PLL AND R ETHNIC ALOTT.NOT GOOD CHRISTIANS.THEY NEVER RECEIVE HOLY COMMUNION BUT THE KIDS AND OLD...AND WHEN YU COME TO THE WESTERN BORN CHURCH YU SEE RASTAFARIANS AND FAMILIES RECEIVING COMMUNION.GO STUDY WHO RASTAFARI IS AND LEARN BEFORE YOU JUDGE.THE LANGUAGE BARRIER IS WHAT IT IS.WHEN DEAMONS ATTACK ME ONE DAY RASTAFARI JAH WAS ONE WORD I DISCOVERED CHASED DEVILS AWAY..HOW CAN GOD HOUSE BE DIVIDED.NO ONE CAN STOP IT NOW.ITS A MYSTERY.VAIN MEN MUST OBSERVE THIS.THE RASTAFARIANS AND HARLOTS ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN BEFORE MANY OF THE PEOPLE IN BIG CHRISTIAN POSITIONS BECAUSE THEY SEEKING IDENTITY DENIED BY STEREOTYPE,AND THEY R SINCERE TO FIND THEIR SAVIOUR.LET CHRIST REMEMBER US IN HIS MERCY.JAH RAS TAFARI///YHE HEAD I FEAR...CHRIST TAFARI...CHRIST WHO I FEAR...YESUS TAFARI YESUS WHO I FEAR....ITS A JAMAICAN THING ..ONLY A JAMAICAN ACN CROSS IT...AND INTRODUCE IT TO THE WORLD.....BEHOLD ST ELIAS IS NOW IN ETHIOPIA AWAITING HIS WORK ON EARTH FOR 4 YRS..LOVE EVERYONE..THE BROTHERS N SISTERS IN SHASHEMANE NEED A HOME IN AFRICA AND THE GOV TOOK THE LAND GRANT AFTER 70 YRS.WE BUILT SCHOOLS N BUSINESS SO THE YOUNG GIRLS DONT TURN TO PROSTITUTION FOR SURVIVAL AND MOST R CHRISTIANS TOO WITH HIV..OF COURSE ETHIOPIA ,A BACKWARD COUNTRY LIKE THAT NEEDS FOREIGNERS WHO WAS STOLEN BY AHMEH GRAHN AND SOLD TO EUROPEANS FOR SLAVERY..THE JAHMA TRIBE ABBA YESEHAQ TEACH US ABOUT.YOU THINK IS A JOKE.?LIVES ARE HERE AT STEAK.FIRE PON ABORTION AND PROPAGANDA...ALL OF AFRIKA IS ETHIOPIA..ITS A CONTINENT HISTORICALLY.SURELY RASTA CAN TEACH ETHIOPIANS...RIGHT NOW WE TEACHING HABESHA KIDS IN BOSTON WHO LOST THEIR IDENTITY BECAUSE THEY BORN IN ENGLISH COUNTRY SO THEY NUST STUDY WITH RASTA WHO ABBA YESEHAQ PRINT ENGLISH PRAYER BOOKS TO UNDERSTAND THE AMHARIC LITURGY AT HAILE SELASSIE EXPENSES...GOOD OVER EVILL.AND WE WILL FIGHT IF WE FINF IT NECESSARY TO PROTECT OUR EOTC IN KINGSTON JAMAICA.GO AWAY satan.THE LORD REBUKE thee.one black love to all today.


ewwwwwww, here it goes it getts better and better,
I sugest you refrain from using  the name of HH Abuna Yesehaq of Blessed memory and lie , you are not Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo member, and I will not sit by while you Scandalise my Church and my Faith, You are a racist bigot, who can not see a man beyond the color of his skin. I can not even bring to finish reading the filth you just spewed out of your malicious blaspheming mouth and heart. be aware of the curse you invite upon yourself.


Are you threw insulting the legacy of HH Abune Yesehaq, who loved and adored thousands of Rastafari peoples, including ALL the Elders of the movement who the first the embrace Tewahedo in the 1970s, and up until HH last breath, was preaching the Truth of Orthodox in the midst of schism and miscommunication.  HH ordained my own father-confessor, and HH baptized several of my friends, we knew HH personally, and you shouldn't be so arrogant as to assume that you have proper ownership of HH legacy simply because you are Ethiopian, and we are not, because that was not what HH was about, and therefore it is YOU sister who are misrepresenting HH, not we.

You seem to have a lot of ignorance about the tangible history between HIM, the Ethiopian Church, and the Rastafari movement, maybe you would be better to ask questions rather than make mean-spirited and dismissive accusations?

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Amen!

Hiwot, how dare you accuse Ras Zacka of not being a baptized member of the EOTC?! I can tell you that our brother was a personal disciple of Abbatachin, and has perhaps done more than anyone else to maintain and promote the Tewahedo legacy and vision that Abuna Yesehaq promoted to his last breath! He is working this very day in Jamaica to defend the Faith and lead other Rastas to a saving knowledge of Eyesus Kristos and baptism into the Orthodox Tewahedo Church.

I do love you dear sister, but I strongly encourage you to cease with all of this judgment and condemnation towards your own Tewahedo brethren!


Selam
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« Reply #70 on: November 09, 2011, 04:30:22 PM »

Oh that you were private dear thread!
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« Reply #71 on: November 09, 2011, 04:33:22 PM »

Now I'm the one who is sad. Gebre, your brother has preached all kinds of nonsense (and LOUDLY, IN ALL CAPS WITH NO PARAGRAPH SPACES) there, in the name of defending the EOTC in Jamaica!  "Only Jamaicans" can understand (cross?) it, and it's "one black love" to all (somehow!). Where is the evangelization here, either to him from you (to correct his errors), or from him to us, if he is somehow Orthodox? I don't recognize anything like the Orthodoxy I am being taught in the Coptic Orthodox church in what he has written. We do not involve ourselves in politics, telling other nations that they are ungrateful or bad, nor has anyone ever told me that I cannot be Orthodox because I am not an ethnic Copt. To the contrary!

What IS this? Is this Orthodoxy, or black nationalism in Orthodox vestments?

What a load of garbage! I'm sorry...I can't stomach this for even a second. If that jumbled mess of nationalism and exclusionary thinking is Orthodoxy then I might as well go back to being Roman Catholic.  Undecided

Amma Syncletica has told us that just as it is impossible to be both at the same time a seed and a plant, it is impossible to be surrounded by the things of the world and the city and be holy. But I can see that some want a political and racial utopia on earth even still (and what's more see some sort of bizarre, prophetic work for their people and race in it). How sad. That's not the church, is it? Rather, what was it again that the psalmist told us? "Do not trust in princes"? Maybe that does not apply in the Rastadox mind to Haile Selassie, but that is more proof to me that the two don't mix.

I'm disgusted now. I must leave this thread rather than let the passions overtake me. Peace.

Do not expect those who are unfairly and slanderously attacked not to defend themselves. It does not discredit the brother simply because he writes in all caps. And who are any of you who have little or no knowledge of the Rastafari movement or of the ecclesiastical situation in Jamaica to discredit his comments? Again, some people need to humble themsleves and open their minds- or better yet, open their hearts.


Selam
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« Reply #72 on: November 09, 2011, 04:38:21 PM »

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP
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« Reply #73 on: November 09, 2011, 04:41:14 PM »

Now I'm the one who is sad. Gebre, your brother has preached all kinds of nonsense (and LOUDLY, IN ALL CAPS WITH NO PARAGRAPH SPACES) there, in the name of defending the EOTC in Jamaica!  "Only Jamaicans" can understand (cross?) it, and it's "one black love" to all (somehow!). Where is the evangelization here, either to him from you (to correct his errors), or from him to us, if he is somehow Orthodox? I don't recognize anything like the Orthodoxy I am being taught in the Coptic Orthodox church in what he has written. We do not involve ourselves in politics, telling other nations that they are ungrateful or bad, nor has anyone ever told me that I cannot be Orthodox because I am not an ethnic Copt. To the contrary!

What IS this? Is this Orthodoxy, or black nationalism in Orthodox vestments?

What a load of garbage! I'm sorry...I can't stomach this for even a second. If that jumbled mess of nationalism and exclusionary thinking is Orthodoxy then I might as well go back to being Roman Catholic.  Undecided

Amma Syncletica has told us that just as it is impossible to be both at the same time a seed and a plant, it is impossible to be surrounded by the things of the world and the city and be holy. But I can see that some want a political and racial utopia on earth even still (and what's more see some sort of bizarre, prophetic work for their people and race in it). How sad. That's not the church, is it? Rather, what was it again that the psalmist told us? "Do not trust in princes"? Maybe that does not apply in the Rastadox mind to Haile Selassie, but that is more proof to me that the two don't mix.

I'm disgusted now. I must leave this thread rather than let the passions overtake me. Peace.

Do not expect those who are unfairly and slanderously attacked not to defend themselves. It does not discredit the brother simply because he writes in all caps. And who are any of you who have little or no knowledge of the Rastafari movement or of the ecclesiastical situation in Jamaica to discredit his comments? Again, some people need to humble themsleves and open their minds- or better yet, open their hearts.


Selam


Gebre, if I may, it's hard to give credit or discredit something when you have extreme difficulty in understanding it.  It is up to the person communicating to make themselves understood and writing in all caps and in an extremely unorthodox English grammar (to the point of illegibility) on a predominately English language site is not going to prove anything.  I know little about Rastafarianism but I want to learn and am having difficulty doing so when I feel as if I'm being talked AT (not even TO) as I do when I read Ras Zacka's post.
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« Reply #74 on: November 09, 2011, 04:43:20 PM »

yes, you have correctly pointed out a common Rastafari misconception, but you also were aware that many Rastafari folks speak Amharic and know the corrections? Further, in the concept of Ras Tafari, this phrase has a dual meaning.  The literal meaning is "Head Feared-One" as you've already pointed out, so some folks are merely affirming that God is one to be Feared.  Folks like myself, who do not worship but do continue venerate the Emperor, use this term to acknowledge that it is through the Person of Ras Tafari, who is HIM Haile Selassie I, that God Almighty perpetuates His Divine Theocratic Order of Creation, that the modern, colonial, Babylonian world is a merely a facade, a dirty mirror like Paul mentioned, but the Truth of God is remaining in His Kingdom and through David His servant

Oh habte, this is completely grabbing straw definition you just gave which probably emanated after you have seen what I interpreted as his name, one you have already seen that Gebere's definition did not hold water. so you are trying to come up with a newly invented definition for the blasphemous term.  well if as you said those who understand the Amharic language have seen it, they would lough at the conclusion you just arrived at, but if they are orthodox they will be horrified by the so called misconception , misuse of language. unless ofc they are arrogant and continue to insist it does not matter, and it can be used either way, to which the orthodox church will say NO WAY to. there is no such dual meaning int he Rastafarian movement , the message is clear JAH RASTAFARI means rastafari IS JAH, this has been a time proven declaration of their faith. now you say it is to say that God is one to be feared, oh please by anyones linguistic deciphering ability this is clearly a distortion of language, what it is says is plain and clear. Jah -JEHOVA, Ras- Head  TAFARI - TERRIFYING  let us translate it then, JEHOVA is a terrifying Head! as silly as this is , still that is not what is being said by the Rastafarian's who originally coined the term as their Creed! and for you to say it is to say that the Almighty is the one that perpetuates ...... speech really another straw grabbing definition.  say what you like the fact remains JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI those rastafarians who say it will be asked to stop saying it if they intend to join the orthodox church, and those who still hang on to their idol then they too will be constantly 'reminded' that JAH ain't no RASTAFARI.

I have no issue with venerating the Emperor, however using that term to do so, whatever you say it means now, I am here to tell you it is not Orthodox! it is Rastafarian creed that snick in with the converts who still can not separate themselves from their former attachment. and dare to say JAH RASTAFARI!

As to the dreadlocks Ethiopians  I assure you its a fashion statement, none of them who know their history and have no fanciful ideas about the Emperor being a deity claim to be Rastafarian's in the manner you protray. it was not a dirty game to say words matter and just as we  the Orthodox do not say Paul is risen! we will never say JAH RASTAFARI.

as to Ethiopians leaving their country and needing an example to stay in their country. it just shows how little you know of the plight of Ethiopians or how you disregard it.  Ethiopians who love their mother land dearly , would not contemplate leave her and their beloved people had conditions not been a life and death situation. but I will not speak of this in here. continue to say oh Ethiopians who went to Babylon etc etc.  

Honestly speaking everyone can see what JAH RASTAFARI means, I can not go into another circular argument I already had with Gebere, I understand you share his views,  and my point to all that might see this is that The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church does reject such utter blasphemy.

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« Reply #75 on: November 09, 2011, 04:43:51 PM »

He lists Rastafarian before Orthodox. That's enough for me.

Okay, it was the all caps. I confess.

Why would his story be more trustworthy?
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« Reply #76 on: November 09, 2011, 04:44:18 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #77 on: November 09, 2011, 04:45:46 PM »

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

Worse yet, hyaenas.
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« Reply #78 on: November 09, 2011, 04:47:52 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Meh, I can see where you're coming from. I guess its an Ethiopian thing because all I see is the caps ridden rambling incoherent mess from someone who must have about a 3rd grade grasp of English.

Oh, one black love yo....pfft  Roll Eyes


PP
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« Reply #79 on: November 09, 2011, 04:49:07 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

He ain't talking about whatever you are going on about which is RP^5. More the delight into getting into the discussion between LARPers and Ethiopians, the hyaenas have recourse to rhetoric that is only fit for private.
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« Reply #80 on: November 09, 2011, 04:50:33 PM »

He lists Rastafarian before Orthodox. That's enough for me.

Okay, it was the all caps. I confess.

Why would his story be more trustworthy?

It's a Rasta thing, you wouldn't Overstand!
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« Reply #81 on: November 09, 2011, 04:51:19 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Meh, I can see where you're coming from. I guess its an Ethiopian thing because all I see is the caps ridden rambling incoherent mess from someone who must have about a 3rd grade grasp of English.

Oh, one black love yo....pfft  Roll Eyes


PP

Please, that was very rude, the Brother actually posted some serious substance with insight, you're splitting the wrong hairs to insult the substance of his post simply by being the grammar nazis



stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #82 on: November 09, 2011, 04:54:18 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Meh, I can see where you're coming from. I guess its an Ethiopian thing because all I see is the caps ridden rambling incoherent mess from someone who must have about a 3rd grade grasp of English.

Oh, one black love yo....pfft  Roll Eyes


PP

Please, that was very rude, the Brother actually posted some serious substance with insight, you're splitting the wrong hairs to insult the substance of his post simply by being the grammar nazis



stay blessed,
habte selassie

Sheeeesh. Mods. Go. Private. I mean there is too much material here:

Split Hairs
Rude
Substance
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« Reply #83 on: November 09, 2011, 04:54:56 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Meh, I can see where you're coming from. I guess its an Ethiopian thing because all I see is the caps ridden rambling incoherent mess from someone who must have about a 3rd grade grasp of English.

Oh, one black love yo....pfft  Roll Eyes


PP

Please, that was very rude, the Brother actually posted some serious substance with insight, you're splitting the wrong hairs to insult the substance of his post simply by being the grammar nazis



stay blessed,
habte selassie

There is a marked difference between being a grammar nazi (eg enforcing the theyre/their/there distinctions) and literally struggling to understand someone because they refused to use punctuation and/or basic sentence structure.
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« Reply #84 on: November 09, 2011, 04:56:14 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Meh, I can see where you're coming from. I guess its an Ethiopian thing because all I see is the caps ridden rambling incoherent mess from someone who must have about a 3rd grade grasp of English.

Oh, one black love yo....pfft  Roll Eyes


PP

Please, that was very rude, the Brother actually posted some serious substance with insight, you're splitting the wrong hairs to insult the substance of his post simply by being the grammar nazis



stay blessed,
habte selassie

Sheeeesh. Mods. Go. Private. I mean there is too much material here:

Split Hairs
Rude
Substance
Wrapped in the bow of a holy greeting!

Oh, brother.

Seriously, do we know who this extremely credible 4 post guy is? I mean, I have 3,000 and no one ever listens to me.
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« Reply #85 on: November 09, 2011, 04:56:25 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Distortion distortion! goodness! what shameful thing to do, Racism has no place in Ethiopian orthodox church, those who preach it are not part of it period they excommunicate themselves, our Dogma will not be compromised by JAH RASTAFARI BS . Its sickening to hear all this straw grasping attempt at rationalising what can never ever be rationalised and trying to divert it to political issues that's even more disgusting!
 your friend came and spewed filth in the name of the blessed bishop, and the Orthodox Faith, God forgive you guys for supporting such filth as orthodox.
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« Reply #86 on: November 09, 2011, 04:57:58 PM »

Say what you want. I did read the whole thing. It was silly. Call me a grammar nazi, thats fine. it still does not take away from it being a incoherent rambling mess.
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« Reply #87 on: November 09, 2011, 05:04:23 PM »

There is a marked difference between being a grammar nazi (eg enforcing the theyre/their/there distinctions) and literally struggling to understand someone because they refused to use punctuation and/or basic sentence structure.

Completely agreed.  Gebre, you've nailed your colors to the mast, supporting that dross.

Edited some good stuff out.   Smiley

Against my better judgment, edited back in:

Hiwot, your defense of the Orthodox faith is commendable and has clearly touched some exposed nerves.  I wonder why the reaction?  Of course challenging perceived identities and subcultures is apparently "judgmental" and out of bounds now though.  Good on you. 

As a partially objective observer, may I recommend that those arguing with her respond less defensively?  It makes you look guilty.
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« Reply #88 on: November 09, 2011, 05:07:28 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



Oh habte, this is completely grabbing straw definition you just gave which probably emanated after you have seen what I interpreted as his name, one you have already seen that Gebere's definition did not hold water. so you are trying to come up with a newly invented definition for the blasphemous term.  well if as you said those who understand the Amharic language have seen it, they would lough at the conclusion you just arrived at, but if they are orthodox they will be horrified by the so called misconception , misuse of language. unless ofc they are arrogant and continue to insist it does not matter, and it can be used either way, to which the orthodox church will say NO WAY to. there is no such dual meaning int he Rastafarian movement , the message is clear JAH RASTAFARI means rastafari IS JAH, this has been a time proven declaration of their faith. now you say it is to say that God is one to be feared, oh please by anyones linguistic deciphering ability this is clearly a distortion of language, what it is says is plain and clear. Jah -JEHOVA, Ras- Head  TAFARI - TERRIFYING  let us translate it then, JEHOVA is a terrifying Head! as silly as this is , still that is not what is being said by the Rastafarian's who originally coined the term as their Creed! and for you to say it is to say that the Almighty is the one that perpetuates ...... speech really another straw grabbing definition.  say what you like the fact remains JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI those rastafarians who say it will be asked to stop saying it if they intend to join the orthodox church, and those who still hang on to their idol then they too will be constantly 'reminded' that JAH ain't no RASTAFARI.


As to the dreadlocks Ethiopians  I assure you its a fashion statement, none of them who know their history and have no fanciful ideas about the Emperor being a deity claim to be Rastafarian's in the manner you protray. it was not a dirty game to say words matter and just as we  the Orthodox do not say Paul is risen! we will never say JAH RASTAFARI.



my kind sister you sure love to pontificate based upon ignorant assumptions and generalizations.  Oh, so I only learned the truth of an Amharic phrase I  have been using for my entire adult life because of what you posted? Get over yourself please, you can only insult so much before we bring out the real.  As we say in Rastafari, "if a fish woulda keep him big yap shut, him never woulda got caught in the first place" and as I said, in regards to Rastafari/Ethiopian connections, you clearly have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, so maybe it would be best if you asked questions instead of making rude and ignorant accusations?

Further, language is a code used by individuals and communities to communicate.  It is dynamic, it is evolving, it is localized and individualized.  Just because YOU read a phrase or some words a particular way, doesn't make that the way others use or understand these terms, sorry.  We in Rastafari have told you what WE MEAN when we speak certain words, if you disagree with our meanings that is fine, but how can you tell us what we mean when we speak? That is some arrogance you have there, and it is surprising considering how insightful and spiritual your posts have been, well these on this thread are an about-face 180 towards negativity and cynicism.  That doesn't sound anything like the Sis Hiwot we have known here, sorry if we touched a nerve, but you need to be a bit more responsible in the way you express yourself, you have been rather rude and insultingly insensitive to a lot of people's honest and sincere testimonies.  Why don't you listen to what people are saying rather then speaking over them as if YOU were the expert on things you clearly are not? We learn A LOT from your posts here, but not on this one.  Why don't you learn a bit from us like we enjoy learning from you?

Dreadlocked Ethiopians are just a fashion, some, true, but how can you generalize against all? How can you dismiss the testimony of folks like myself who actually know and have met actual Ethiopian Rastafari people? Again, you have had a lot of nerve coming here to boss everybody around as if you were the expert and we were a bunch of highschool kids listening to Bob Marley records and pretending to be Rastas.  We are Rastafari people here, and we know Rastafari culture and history, and we are Rastafari Orthodox, and we know this history and all its players personally, including HH Abune Yesehaq and many others.  Why would you insult our testimony as if it were not valid, and as if it were you who knew all these people when clearly you don't by the things you've said? If you feel we are misrepresenting Ethiopia you can speak on that, but please don't insist on misrepresenting we Rastafari Orthodox when we are standing here ready to speak for ourselves if you would only listen beyond your ideologue blinders?

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #89 on: November 09, 2011, 05:08:41 PM »

There is a marked difference between being a grammar nazi (eg enforcing the theyre/their/there distinctions) and literally struggling to understand someone because they refused to use punctuation and/or basic sentence structure.

Completely agreed.  Gebre, you've nailed your colors to the mast, supporting that dross.

Edited some good stuff out.   Smiley

Against my better judgment, edited back in:

Hiwot, your defense of the Orthodox faith is commendable and has clearly touched some exposed nerves.  I wonder why the reaction?  Of course challenging perceived identities and subcultures is apparently "judgmental" and out of bounds now though.  Good on you.  

As a partially objective observer, may I recommend that those arguing with her respond less defensively?  It makes you look guilty.
I apprecaite the defense mates. I didnt think I was being overly sensitive to grammar but....

PP
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« Reply #90 on: November 09, 2011, 05:12:21 PM »

I know nothing about Ethiopia, HIM, Rastafarianism, or anything else being discussed here. Except for this, speaking of grammar naziïsm:

I dont agree with anyone using that title other than the One who truly deserves it. The Lord Jesus Christ.

"King of kings" is, I believe, a Hebraicism. To repeat the word twice is an intensifier.

In English we say "supreme court". A Hebraicized version might be "court of courts." "Commander-in-chief" might be "commander of commanders."

It is a language construct which can apply to Christ, or it can apply to general secular systems. Sort of like the term "Lord". It can refer to Christ, or it can refer to a member of the peerage. The term itself is not restricted to any particular use, and calling a person "Lord" does not threaten Christ's Lordship.

In any case, it is a legitimate title in a political system where there are lesser kings under the authority of a greater king. Distaste for the term simply means that in English we have come to use it in a specific way. Your mileage will vary in other languages and cultures.
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« Reply #91 on: November 09, 2011, 05:15:09 PM »

I know nothing about Ethiopia, HIM, Rastafarianism, or anything else being discussed here. Except for this, speaking of grammar naziïsm:

I dont agree with anyone using that title other than the One who truly deserves it. The Lord Jesus Christ.

"King of kings" is, I believe, a Hebraicism. To repeat the word twice is an intensifier.

In English we say "supreme court". A Hebraicized version might be "court of courts." "Commander-in-chief" might be "commander of commanders."

It is a language construct which can apply to Christ, or it can apply to general secular systems. Sort of like the term "Lord". It can refer to Christ, or it can refer to a member of the peerage. The term itself is not restricted to any particular use, and calling a person "Lord" does not threaten Christ's Lordship.

In any case, it is a legitimate title in a political system where there are lesser kings under the authority of a greater king. Distaste for the term simply means that in English we have come to use it in a specific way. Your mileage will vary in other languages and cultures.

Point bogdan!

It is a Hebraicism and frankly I would love a thread "collecting" such things. But as we have seen, there is more at work here than that.
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« Reply #92 on: November 09, 2011, 05:17:33 PM »

I know nothing about Ethiopia, HIM, Rastafarianism, or anything else being discussed here. Except for this, speaking of grammar naziïsm:

I dont agree with anyone using that title other than the One who truly deserves it. The Lord Jesus Christ.

"King of kings" is, I believe, a Hebraicism. To repeat the word twice is an intensifier.

In English we say "supreme court". A Hebraicized version might be "court of courts." "Commander-in-chief" might be "commander of commanders."

It is a language construct which can apply to Christ, or it can apply to general secular systems. Sort of like the term "Lord". It can refer to Christ, or it can refer to a member of the peerage. The term itself is not restricted to any particular use, and calling a person "Lord" does not threaten Christ's Lordship.

In any case, it is a legitimate title in a political system where there are lesser kings under the authority of a greater king. Distaste for the term simply means that in English we have come to use it in a specific way. Your mileage will vary in other languages and cultures.
If that was the onl;y title ascribed to Christ and this man I would not have a problem with it. The actual title was:

Quote
King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, Elect of God, Light of This World, King of Zion, King of Israel
Legitimize it any way you want. I dont think anyone should have those titles given to them except One. You dont agree, thats cool.
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« Reply #93 on: November 09, 2011, 05:19:48 PM »


Now I'm the one who is sad. Gebre, your brother has preached all kinds of nonsense (and LOUDLY, IN ALL CAPS WITH NO PARAGRAPH SPACES) there, in the name of defending the EOTC in Jamaica!  "Only Jamaicans" can understand (cross?) it, and it's "one black love" to all (somehow!). Where is the evangelization here, either to him from you (to correct his errors), or from him to us, if he is somehow Orthodox? I don't recognize anything like the Orthodoxy I am being taught in the Coptic Orthodox church in what he has written. We do not involve ourselves in politics, telling other nations that they are ungrateful or bad, nor has anyone ever told me that I cannot be Orthodox because I am not an ethnic Copt. To the contrary!

What IS this? Is this Orthodoxy, or black nationalism in Orthodox vestments?

What a load of garbage! I'm sorry...I can't stomach this for even a second. If that jumbled mess of nationalism and exclusionary thinking is Orthodoxy then I might as well go back to being Roman Catholic.  Undecided

Amma Syncletica has told us that just as it is impossible to be both at the same time a seed and a plant, it is impossible to be surrounded by the things of the world and the city and be holy. But I can see that some want a political and racial utopia on earth even still (and what's more see some sort of bizarre, prophetic work for their people and race in it). How sad. That's not the church, is it? Rather, what was it again that the psalmist told us? "Do not trust in princes"? Maybe that does not apply in the Rastadox mind to Haile Selassie, but that is more proof to me that the two don't mix.

I'm disgusted now. I must leave this thread rather than let the passions overtake me. Peace.

Do not expect those who are unfairly and slanderously attacked not to defend themselves. It does not discredit the brother simply because he writes in all caps. And who are any of you who have little or no knowledge of the Rastafari movement or of the ecclesiastical situation in Jamaica to discredit his comments? Again, some people need to humble themsleves and open their minds- or better yet, open their hearts.


Selam


Gebre, if I may, it's hard to give credit or discredit something when you have extreme difficulty in understanding it.  It is up to the person communicating to make themselves understood and writing in all caps and in an extremely unorthodox English grammar (to the point of illegibility) on a predominately English language site is not going to prove anything.  I know little about Rastafarianism but I want to learn and am having difficulty doing so when I feel as if I'm being talked AT (not even TO) as I do when I read Ras Zacka's post.

I think your concerns are fair.


Selam
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« Reply #94 on: November 09, 2011, 05:26:39 PM »

I know nothing about Ethiopia, HIM, Rastafarianism, or anything else being discussed here. Except for this, speaking of grammar naziïsm:

I dont agree with anyone using that title other than the One who truly deserves it. The Lord Jesus Christ.

"King of kings" is, I believe, a Hebraicism. To repeat the word twice is an intensifier.

In English we say "supreme court". A Hebraicized version might be "court of courts." "Commander-in-chief" might be "commander of commanders."

It is a language construct which can apply to Christ, or it can apply to general secular systems. Sort of like the term "Lord". It can refer to Christ, or it can refer to a member of the peerage. The term itself is not restricted to any particular use, and calling a person "Lord" does not threaten Christ's Lordship.

In any case, it is a legitimate title in a political system where there are lesser kings under the authority of a greater king. Distaste for the term simply means that in English we have come to use it in a specific way. Your mileage will vary in other languages and cultures.
If that was the onl;y title ascribed to Christ and this man I would not have a problem with it. The actual title was:

Quote
King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, Elect of God, Light of This World, King of Zion, King of Israel
Legitimize it any way you want. I dont think anyone should have those titles given to them except One. You dont agree, thats cool.

Actually the form that bogdan is pointing out is very helpful  for reading Scripture in English translation even in versions which attempt to avoid such Hebraicisms (you usually can still tell they were there, once you are keen to the them).

Who knows what would have come of all the complexity attributed to the use of man's being made in God's image and likeness if such repeated and parallel uses of words were known simply as a form of a emphasizing a single point. Much ink spilled. Perhaps Providentially for the good, but perhaps to more complexity than needed.

Again, this is getting VERY tangential and I am finished. Again, content for a proper and non-contentious thread.
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« Reply #95 on: November 09, 2011, 05:27:41 PM »

 
yes, you have correctly pointed out a common Rastafari misconception, but you also were aware that many Rastafari folks speak Amharic and know the corrections? Further, in the concept of Ras Tafari, this phrase has a dual meaning.  The literal meaning is "Head Feared-One" as you've already pointed out, so some folks are merely affirming that God is one to be Feared.  Folks like myself, who do not worship but do continue venerate the Emperor, use this term to acknowledge that it is through the Person of Ras Tafari, who is HIM Haile Selassie I, that God Almighty perpetuates His Divine Theocratic Order of Creation, that the modern, colonial, Babylonian world is a merely a facade, a dirty mirror like Paul mentioned, but the Truth of God is remaining in His Kingdom and through David His servant

Oh habte, this is completely grabbing straw definition you just gave which probably emanated after you have seen what I interpreted as his name, one you have already seen that Gebere's definition did not hold water. so you are trying to come up with a newly invented definition for the blasphemous term.  well if as you said those who understand the Amharic language have seen it, they would lough at the conclusion you just arrived at, but if they are orthodox they will be horrified by the so called misconception , misuse of language. unless ofc they are arrogant and continue to insist it does not matter, and it can be used either way, to which the orthodox church will say NO WAY to. there is no such dual meaning int he Rastafarian movement , the message is clear JAH RASTAFARI means rastafari IS JAH, this has been a time proven declaration of their faith. now you say it is to say that God is one to be feared, oh please by anyones linguistic deciphering ability this is clearly a distortion of language, what it is says is plain and clear. Jah -JEHOVA, Ras- Head  TAFARI - TERRIFYING  let us translate it then, JEHOVA is a terrifying Head! as silly as this is , still that is not what is being said by the Rastafarian's who originally coined the term as their Creed! and for you to say it is to say that the Almighty is the one that perpetuates ...... speech really another straw grabbing definition.  say what you like the fact remains JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI those rastafarians who say it will be asked to stop saying it if they intend to join the orthodox church, and those who still hang on to their idol then they too will be constantly 'reminded' that JAH ain't no RASTAFARI.

I have no issue with venerating the Emperor, however using that term to do so, whatever you say it means now, I am here to tell you it is not Orthodox! it is Rastafarian creed that snick in with the converts who still can not separate themselves from their former attachment. and dare to say JAH RASTAFARI!

As to the dreadlocks Ethiopians  I assure you its a fashion statement, none of them who know their history and have no fanciful ideas about the Emperor being a deity claim to be Rastafarian's in the manner you protray. it was not a dirty game to say words matter and just as we  the Orthodox do not say Paul is risen! we will never say JAH RASTAFARI.

as to Ethiopians leaving their country and needing an example to stay in their country. it just shows how little you know of the plight of Ethiopians or how you disregard it.  Ethiopians who love their mother land dearly , would not contemplate leave her and their beloved people had conditions not been a life and death situation. but I will not speak of this in here. continue to say oh Ethiopians who went to Babylon etc etc.  

Honestly speaking everyone can see what JAH RASTAFARI means, I can not go into another circular argument I already had with Gebere, I understand you share his views,  and my point to all that might see this is that The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church does reject such utter blasphemy.



Hiwot, dear sister, you are doing the same annoying thing that Evangelical fundamentalists do when they try to tell us Orthodox what we believe- i.e. "You Orthodox worship Mary, idolize icons, etc." Rather than defending their own belief system, they try to attack Orthodoxy out of ignorance and misinformation. This is exactly what you are doing here, presuming to lecture us about the Rastafarian movement when you obviously know nothing about it. Orthodoxy is not evangelical fundamentalism, condemning and judging others out of ignorance and fear. If that's the version of Christianity you want to practice, then the Tewahedo Faith is not for you. There are plenty of fundamentalist churches that will be glad to accommodate you and your judgmental attitude.


Selam
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« Reply #96 on: November 09, 2011, 05:29:19 PM »

yes, you have correctly pointed out a common Rastafari misconception, but you also were aware that many Rastafari folks speak Amharic and know the corrections? Further, in the concept of Ras Tafari, this phrase has a dual meaning.  The literal meaning is "Head Feared-One" as you've already pointed out, so some folks are merely affirming that God is one to be Feared.  Folks like myself, who do not worship but do continue venerate the Emperor, use this term to acknowledge that it is through the Person of Ras Tafari, who is HIM Haile Selassie I, that God Almighty perpetuates His Divine Theocratic Order of Creation, that the modern, colonial, Babylonian world is a merely a facade, a dirty mirror like Paul mentioned, but the Truth of God is remaining in His Kingdom and through David His servant

Oh habte, this is completely grabbing straw definition you just gave which probably emanated after you have seen what I interpreted as his name, one you have already seen that Gebere's definition did not hold water. so you are trying to come up with a newly invented definition for the blasphemous term.  well if as you said those who understand the Amharic language have seen it, they would lough at the conclusion you just arrived at, but if they are orthodox they will be horrified by the so called misconception , misuse of language. unless ofc they are arrogant and continue to insist it does not matter, and it can be used either way, to which the orthodox church will say NO WAY to. there is no such dual meaning int he Rastafarian movement , the message is clear JAH RASTAFARI means rastafari IS JAH, this has been a time proven declaration of their faith. now you say it is to say that God is one to be feared, oh please by anyones linguistic deciphering ability this is clearly a distortion of language, what it is says is plain and clear. Jah -JEHOVA, Ras- Head  TAFARI - TERRIFYING  let us translate it then, JEHOVA is a terrifying Head! as silly as this is , still that is not what is being said by the Rastafarian's who originally coined the term as their Creed! and for you to say it is to say that the Almighty is the one that perpetuates ...... speech really another straw grabbing definition.  say what you like the fact remains JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI those rastafarians who say it will be asked to stop saying it if they intend to join the orthodox church, and those who still hang on to their idol then they too will be constantly 'reminded' that JAH ain't no RASTAFARI.

I have no issue with venerating the Emperor, however using that term to do so, whatever you say it means now, I am here to tell you it is not Orthodox! it is Rastafarian creed that snick in with the converts who still can not separate themselves from their former attachment. and dare to say JAH RASTAFARI!

As to the dreadlocks Ethiopians  I assure you its a fashion statement, none of them who know their history and have no fanciful ideas about the Emperor being a deity claim to be Rastafarian's in the manner you protray. it was not a dirty game to say words matter and just as we  the Orthodox do not say Paul is risen! we will never say JAH RASTAFARI.

as to Ethiopians leaving their country and needing an example to stay in their country. it just shows how little you know of the plight of Ethiopians or how you disregard it.  Ethiopians who love their mother land dearly , would not contemplate leave her and their beloved people had conditions not been a life and death situation. but I will not speak of this in here. continue to say oh Ethiopians who went to Babylon etc etc. 

Honestly speaking everyone can see what JAH RASTAFARI means, I can not go into another circular argument I already had with Gebere, I understand you share his views,  and my point to all that might see this is that The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church does reject such utter blasphemy.



Hiwot, dear sister, you are doing the same annoying thing that Evangelical fundamentalists do when they try to tell us Orthodox what we believe- i.e. "You Orthodox worship Mary, idolize icons, etc." Rather than defending their own belief system, they try to attack Orthodoxy out of ignorance and misinformation. This is exactly what you are doing here, presuming to lecture us about the Rastafarian movement when you obviously know nothing about it. Orthodoxy is not evangelical fundamentalism, condemning and judging others out of ignorance and fear. If that's the version of Christianity you want to practice, then the Tewahedo Faith is not for you. There are plenty of fundamentalist churches that will be glad to accommodate you and your judgmental attitude.


Selam
Why call her "dear sister" and then propose that she leave the Church? Oh, the hypocrisy!

EDIT: I meant to say "passive aggressive." But my first comment still stands.
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« Reply #97 on: November 09, 2011, 05:31:53 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



Oh habte, this is completely grabbing straw definition you just gave which probably emanated after you have seen what I interpreted as his name, one you have already seen that Gebere's definition did not hold water. so you are trying to come up with a newly invented definition for the blasphemous term.  well if as you said those who understand the Amharic language have seen it, they would lough at the conclusion you just arrived at, but if they are orthodox they will be horrified by the so called misconception , misuse of language. unless ofc they are arrogant and continue to insist it does not matter, and it can be used either way, to which the orthodox church will say NO WAY to. there is no such dual meaning int he Rastafarian movement , the message is clear JAH RASTAFARI means rastafari IS JAH, this has been a time proven declaration of their faith. now you say it is to say that God is one to be feared, oh please by anyones linguistic deciphering ability this is clearly a distortion of language, what it is says is plain and clear. Jah -JEHOVA, Ras- Head  TAFARI - TERRIFYING  let us translate it then, JEHOVA is a terrifying Head! as silly as this is , still that is not what is being said by the Rastafarian's who originally coined the term as their Creed! and for you to say it is to say that the Almighty is the one that perpetuates ...... speech really another straw grabbing definition.  say what you like the fact remains JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI those rastafarians who say it will be asked to stop saying it if they intend to join the orthodox church, and those who still hang on to their idol then they too will be constantly 'reminded' that JAH ain't no RASTAFARI.


As to the dreadlocks Ethiopians  I assure you its a fashion statement, none of them who know their history and have no fanciful ideas about the Emperor being a deity claim to be Rastafarian's in the manner you protray. it was not a dirty game to say words matter and just as we  the Orthodox do not say Paul is risen! we will never say JAH RASTAFARI.



my kind sister you sure love to pontificate based upon ignorant assumptions and generalizations.  Oh, so I only learned the truth of an Amharic phrase I  have been using for my entire adult life because of what you posted? Get over yourself please, you can only insult so much before we bring out the real.  As we say in Rastafari, "if a fish woulda keep him big yap shut, him never woulda got caught in the first place" and as I said, in regards to Rastafari/Ethiopian connections, you clearly have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, so maybe it would be best if you asked questions instead of making rude and ignorant accusations?

Further, language is a code used by individuals and communities to communicate.  It is dynamic, it is evolving, it is localized and individualized.  Just because YOU read a phrase or some words a particular way, doesn't make that the way others use or understand these terms, sorry.  We in Rastafari have told you what WE MEAN when we speak certain words, if you disagree with our meanings that is fine, but how can you tell us what we mean when we speak? That is some arrogance you have there, and it is surprising considering how insightful and spiritual your posts have been, well these on this thread are an about-face 180 towards negativity and cynicism.  That doesn't sound anything like the Sis Hiwot we have known here, sorry if we touched a nerve, but you need to be a bit more responsible in the way you express yourself, you have been rather rude and insultingly insensitive to a lot of people's honest and sincere testimonies.  Why don't you listen to what people are saying rather then speaking over them as if YOU were the expert on things you clearly are not? We learn A LOT from your posts here, but not on this one.  Why don't you learn a bit from us like we enjoy learning from you?

Dreadlocked Ethiopians are just a fashion, some, true, but how can you generalize against all? How can you dismiss the testimony of folks like myself who actually know and have met actual Ethiopian Rastafari people? Again, you have had a lot of nerve coming here to boss everybody around as if you were the expert and we were a bunch of highschool kids listening to Bob Marley records and pretending to be Rastas.  We are Rastafari people here, and we know Rastafari culture and history, and we are Rastafari Orthodox, and we know this history and all its players personally, including HH Abune Yesehaq and many others.  Why would you insult our testimony as if it were not valid, and as if it were you who knew all these people when clearly you don't by the things you've said? If you feel we are misrepresenting Ethiopia you can speak on that, but please don't insist on misrepresenting we Rastafari Orthodox when we are standing here ready to speak for ourselves if you would only listen beyond your ideologue blinders?

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Oh not to mention the contradictory definition of terms you who call yourselves rastafarians have used to define what you mean when you say JAH RASTAFARI, but you also insist that it is an Orthodox Term which is a scandlus , arrogant and ignorant thing to say not to mention  Blasphemous. there is no getting around it, We know it is the Emperor's Name that is RASTAFARI , it is the Emperor that you will sing hymns of praise to JAH RASTAFARI , it is the Emperor who was worshiped by the founding elders of RASTAFARIAN movement, I am well aware of the political reasons behind it, as well as the Religious connotations professed by it. you say you know Amharic, good for you, yetibeb mejemeria egziabherin mefrat new! / The beginning of Wisdom is the Fear of God. your politics aside fear the God you blaspheme when you use the same term that is being used by those blasphemers you say you have no communion with.

Rastafari Mekonin's name can by no means or term be used to express the VERY ESSENCE of  the ALLMIGHTY, or What is rightfully due to Him. The Church has a Creed she uses to adore and worship the One True God. No need to borrow the name of a MAN to express that God is to be feared.  this stinks of Idolatry to high heavens! In matters of FAITH use Orthodox terminology or do not say you speak in the name of / or as do the Orthodox faithful of  the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church!

if the Rastafarian faith have managed to get converts to it from Ethiopians its more the reason why one must oppose it vehemently. but as to the Political side of Rastafarian movement, as politics all are free to join it or ignore it. and I am well aware of its significance politically. spare yourself the need to educate me on the political side of things.

I am speaking for my Faith as Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Christian,  and I  say  JAH is NOT RAS TAFARI ! This is the heart of the matter that you guys are insisting it aint so and in a shameful manner at that. Here we part our ways.

Teferi mekonin is dead! God rest his soul! Christ is Risen Glorify Him!
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« Reply #98 on: November 09, 2011, 05:33:19 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Distortion distortion! goodness! what shameful thing to do, Racism has no place in Ethiopian orthodox church, those who preach it are not part of it period they excommunicate themselves, our Dogma will not be compromised by JAH RASTAFARI BS . Its sickening to hear all this straw grasping attempt at rationalising what can never ever be rationalised and trying to divert it to political issues that's even more disgusting!
 your friend came and spewed filth in the name of the blessed bishop, and the Orthodox Faith, God forgive you guys for supporting such filth as orthodox.

What racism? Last I checked, I am White, and brother Ras Zacka has never uttered anything close to resembling a racist or prejudicial word to me. Once again, you've got your guns of judgment firing wildly.


Selam
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« Reply #99 on: November 09, 2011, 05:35:24 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



Oh habte, this is completely grabbing straw definition you just gave which probably emanated after you have seen what I interpreted as his name, one you have already seen that Gebere's definition did not hold water. so you are trying to come up with a newly invented definition for the blasphemous term.  well if as you said those who understand the Amharic language have seen it, they would lough at the conclusion you just arrived at, but if they are orthodox they will be horrified by the so called misconception , misuse of language. unless ofc they are arrogant and continue to insist it does not matter, and it can be used either way, to which the orthodox church will say NO WAY to. there is no such dual meaning int he Rastafarian movement , the message is clear JAH RASTAFARI means rastafari IS JAH, this has been a time proven declaration of their faith. now you say it is to say that God is one to be feared, oh please by anyones linguistic deciphering ability this is clearly a distortion of language, what it is says is plain and clear. Jah -JEHOVA, Ras- Head  TAFARI - TERRIFYING  let us translate it then, JEHOVA is a terrifying Head! as silly as this is , still that is not what is being said by the Rastafarian's who originally coined the term as their Creed! and for you to say it is to say that the Almighty is the one that perpetuates ...... speech really another straw grabbing definition.  say what you like the fact remains JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI those rastafarians who say it will be asked to stop saying it if they intend to join the orthodox church, and those who still hang on to their idol then they too will be constantly 'reminded' that JAH ain't no RASTAFARI.


As to the dreadlocks Ethiopians  I assure you its a fashion statement, none of them who know their history and have no fanciful ideas about the Emperor being a deity claim to be Rastafarian's in the manner you protray. it was not a dirty game to say words matter and just as we  the Orthodox do not say Paul is risen! we will never say JAH RASTAFARI.



my kind sister you sure love to pontificate based upon ignorant assumptions and generalizations.  Oh, so I only learned the truth of an Amharic phrase I  have been using for my entire adult life because of what you posted? Get over yourself please, you can only insult so much before we bring out the real.  As we say in Rastafari, "if a fish woulda keep him big yap shut, him never woulda got caught in the first place" and as I said, in regards to Rastafari/Ethiopian connections, you clearly have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, so maybe it would be best if you asked questions instead of making rude and ignorant accusations?

Further, language is a code used by individuals and communities to communicate.  It is dynamic, it is evolving, it is localized and individualized.  Just because YOU read a phrase or some words a particular way, doesn't make that the way others use or understand these terms, sorry.  We in Rastafari have told you what WE MEAN when we speak certain words, if you disagree with our meanings that is fine, but how can you tell us what we mean when we speak? That is some arrogance you have there, and it is surprising considering how insightful and spiritual your posts have been, well these on this thread are an about-face 180 towards negativity and cynicism.  That doesn't sound anything like the Sis Hiwot we have known here, sorry if we touched a nerve, but you need to be a bit more responsible in the way you express yourself, you have been rather rude and insultingly insensitive to a lot of people's honest and sincere testimonies.  Why don't you listen to what people are saying rather then speaking over them as if YOU were the expert on things you clearly are not? We learn A LOT from your posts here, but not on this one.  Why don't you learn a bit from us like we enjoy learning from you?

Dreadlocked Ethiopians are just a fashion, some, true, but how can you generalize against all? How can you dismiss the testimony of folks like myself who actually know and have met actual Ethiopian Rastafari people? Again, you have had a lot of nerve coming here to boss everybody around as if you were the expert and we were a bunch of highschool kids listening to Bob Marley records and pretending to be Rastas.  We are Rastafari people here, and we know Rastafari culture and history, and we are Rastafari Orthodox, and we know this history and all its players personally, including HH Abune Yesehaq and many others.  Why would you insult our testimony as if it were not valid, and as if it were you who knew all these people when clearly you don't by the things you've said? If you feel we are misrepresenting Ethiopia you can speak on that, but please don't insist on misrepresenting we Rastafari Orthodox when we are standing here ready to speak for ourselves if you would only listen beyond your ideologue blinders?

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Habte, as an outsider reading this thread, I really don't see that your criticism's of Hiwot's posts are warranted. There is obviously a serious divide between cradle Ethiopian Orthodox and the converts coming from the Rasta movement who still carry their Rasta identity/terminology to varying degrees. This is true in other Orthodox churches as well. As a convert myself, I am aware of this in many instances and find that it's best to be open about it, to acknowledge the fact that there are different and sometimes competing understandings. I've certainly seen a lot along these lines in this thread, much of it along the lines of converts doing the pontificating about what those who grew up in the faith should do or think. I think Hiwot has a very valid point. Saying "God is Rastafari" and meaning something other than the Emperor being God amongst a group of people who may very well misunderstand what you are saying or think that you agree with them (that the Emperor is God) is misleading at best. One must consider the audience and the impression one gives. For an Orthodox Christian to even give the impression that His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I is God is like rejecting Christ and denying his baptism.
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« Reply #100 on: November 09, 2011, 05:36:48 PM »

yes, you have correctly pointed out a common Rastafari misconception, but you also were aware that many Rastafari folks speak Amharic and know the corrections? Further, in the concept of Ras Tafari, this phrase has a dual meaning.  The literal meaning is "Head Feared-One" as you've already pointed out, so some folks are merely affirming that God is one to be Feared.  Folks like myself, who do not worship but do continue venerate the Emperor, use this term to acknowledge that it is through the Person of Ras Tafari, who is HIM Haile Selassie I, that God Almighty perpetuates His Divine Theocratic Order of Creation, that the modern, colonial, Babylonian world is a merely a facade, a dirty mirror like Paul mentioned, but the Truth of God is remaining in His Kingdom and through David His servant

Oh habte, this is completely grabbing straw definition you just gave which probably emanated after you have seen what I interpreted as his name, one you have already seen that Gebere's definition did not hold water. so you are trying to come up with a newly invented definition for the blasphemous term.  well if as you said those who understand the Amharic language have seen it, they would lough at the conclusion you just arrived at, but if they are orthodox they will be horrified by the so called misconception , misuse of language. unless ofc they are arrogant and continue to insist it does not matter, and it can be used either way, to which the orthodox church will say NO WAY to. there is no such dual meaning int he Rastafarian movement , the message is clear JAH RASTAFARI means rastafari IS JAH, this has been a time proven declaration of their faith. now you say it is to say that God is one to be feared, oh please by anyones linguistic deciphering ability this is clearly a distortion of language, what it is says is plain and clear. Jah -JEHOVA, Ras- Head  TAFARI - TERRIFYING  let us translate it then, JEHOVA is a terrifying Head! as silly as this is , still that is not what is being said by the Rastafarian's who originally coined the term as their Creed! and for you to say it is to say that the Almighty is the one that perpetuates ...... speech really another straw grabbing definition.  say what you like the fact remains JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI those rastafarians who say it will be asked to stop saying it if they intend to join the orthodox church, and those who still hang on to their idol then they too will be constantly 'reminded' that JAH ain't no RASTAFARI.

I have no issue with venerating the Emperor, however using that term to do so, whatever you say it means now, I am here to tell you it is not Orthodox! it is Rastafarian creed that snick in with the converts who still can not separate themselves from their former attachment. and dare to say JAH RASTAFARI!

As to the dreadlocks Ethiopians  I assure you its a fashion statement, none of them who know their history and have no fanciful ideas about the Emperor being a deity claim to be Rastafarian's in the manner you protray. it was not a dirty game to say words matter and just as we  the Orthodox do not say Paul is risen! we will never say JAH RASTAFARI.

as to Ethiopians leaving their country and needing an example to stay in their country. it just shows how little you know of the plight of Ethiopians or how you disregard it.  Ethiopians who love their mother land dearly , would not contemplate leave her and their beloved people had conditions not been a life and death situation. but I will not speak of this in here. continue to say oh Ethiopians who went to Babylon etc etc. 

Honestly speaking everyone can see what JAH RASTAFARI means, I can not go into another circular argument I already had with Gebere, I understand you share his views,  and my point to all that might see this is that The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church does reject such utter blasphemy.



Hiwot, dear sister, you are doing the same annoying thing that Evangelical fundamentalists do when they try to tell us Orthodox what we believe- i.e. "You Orthodox worship Mary, idolize icons, etc." Rather than defending their own belief system, they try to attack Orthodoxy out of ignorance and misinformation. This is exactly what you are doing here, presuming to lecture us about the Rastafarian movement when you obviously know nothing about it. Orthodoxy is not evangelical fundamentalism, condemning and judging others out of ignorance and fear. If that's the version of Christianity you want to practice, then the Tewahedo Faith is not for you. There are plenty of fundamentalist churches that will be glad to accommodate you and your judgmental attitude.


Selam
Why call her "dear sister" and then propose that she leave the Church? Oh, the hypocrisy!

EDIT: I meant to say "passive aggressive." But my first comment still stands.


I call even my Catholic and Protestant friends "brother" and "sister." And if you will read through this thread, you will see that I have never once questioned Hiwot's Orthodox faith; however she has accused me time and again of being an unOrthodox idolater. No hypocrisy from me here.


Selam
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« Reply #101 on: November 09, 2011, 05:38:12 PM »

I know nothing about Ethiopia, HIM, Rastafarianism, or anything else being discussed here. Except for this, speaking of grammar naziïsm:

I dont agree with anyone using that title other than the One who truly deserves it. The Lord Jesus Christ.

"King of kings" is, I believe, a Hebraicism. To repeat the word twice is an intensifier.

In English we say "supreme court". A Hebraicized version might be "court of courts." "Commander-in-chief" might be "commander of commanders."

It is a language construct which can apply to Christ, or it can apply to general secular systems. Sort of like the term "Lord". It can refer to Christ, or it can refer to a member of the peerage. The term itself is not restricted to any particular use, and calling a person "Lord" does not threaten Christ's Lordship.

In any case, it is a legitimate title in a political system where there are lesser kings under the authority of a greater king. Distaste for the term simply means that in English we have come to use it in a specific way. Your mileage will vary in other languages and cultures.
If that was the onl;y title ascribed to Christ and this man I would not have a problem with it. The actual title was:

Quote
King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, Elect of God, Light of This World, King of Zion, King of Israel
Legitimize it any way you want. I dont think anyone should have those titles given to them except One. You dont agree, thats cool.

Actually the form that bogdan is pointing out is very helpful  for reading Scripture in English translation even in versions which attempt to avoid such Hebraicisms (you usually can still tell they were there, once you are keen to the them).

Who knows what would have come of all the complexity attributed to the use of man's being made in God's image and likeness if such repeated and parallel uses of words were known simply as a form of a emphasizing a single point. Much ink spilled. Perhaps Providentially for the good, but perhaps to more complexity than needed.

Again, this is getting VERY tangential and I am finished. Again, content for a proper and non-contentious thread.
Point taken

PP
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« Reply #102 on: November 09, 2011, 05:39:42 PM »

yes, you have correctly pointed out a common Rastafari misconception, but you also were aware that many Rastafari folks speak Amharic and know the corrections? Further, in the concept of Ras Tafari, this phrase has a dual meaning.  The literal meaning is "Head Feared-One" as you've already pointed out, so some folks are merely affirming that God is one to be Feared.  Folks like myself, who do not worship but do continue venerate the Emperor, use this term to acknowledge that it is through the Person of Ras Tafari, who is HIM Haile Selassie I, that God Almighty perpetuates His Divine Theocratic Order of Creation, that the modern, colonial, Babylonian world is a merely a facade, a dirty mirror like Paul mentioned, but the Truth of God is remaining in His Kingdom and through David His servant

Oh habte, this is completely grabbing straw definition you just gave which probably emanated after you have seen what I interpreted as his name, one you have already seen that Gebere's definition did not hold water. so you are trying to come up with a newly invented definition for the blasphemous term.  well if as you said those who understand the Amharic language have seen it, they would lough at the conclusion you just arrived at, but if they are orthodox they will be horrified by the so called misconception , misuse of language. unless ofc they are arrogant and continue to insist it does not matter, and it can be used either way, to which the orthodox church will say NO WAY to. there is no such dual meaning int he Rastafarian movement , the message is clear JAH RASTAFARI means rastafari IS JAH, this has been a time proven declaration of their faith. now you say it is to say that God is one to be feared, oh please by anyones linguistic deciphering ability this is clearly a distortion of language, what it is says is plain and clear. Jah -JEHOVA, Ras- Head  TAFARI - TERRIFYING  let us translate it then, JEHOVA is a terrifying Head! as silly as this is , still that is not what is being said by the Rastafarian's who originally coined the term as their Creed! and for you to say it is to say that the Almighty is the one that perpetuates ...... speech really another straw grabbing definition.  say what you like the fact remains JAH IS NOT RASTAFARI those rastafarians who say it will be asked to stop saying it if they intend to join the orthodox church, and those who still hang on to their idol then they too will be constantly 'reminded' that JAH ain't no RASTAFARI.

I have no issue with venerating the Emperor, however using that term to do so, whatever you say it means now, I am here to tell you it is not Orthodox! it is Rastafarian creed that snick in with the converts who still can not separate themselves from their former attachment. and dare to say JAH RASTAFARI!

As to the dreadlocks Ethiopians  I assure you its a fashion statement, none of them who know their history and have no fanciful ideas about the Emperor being a deity claim to be Rastafarian's in the manner you protray. it was not a dirty game to say words matter and just as we  the Orthodox do not say Paul is risen! we will never say JAH RASTAFARI.

as to Ethiopians leaving their country and needing an example to stay in their country. it just shows how little you know of the plight of Ethiopians or how you disregard it.  Ethiopians who love their mother land dearly , would not contemplate leave her and their beloved people had conditions not been a life and death situation. but I will not speak of this in here. continue to say oh Ethiopians who went to Babylon etc etc.  

Honestly speaking everyone can see what JAH RASTAFARI means, I can not go into another circular argument I already had with Gebere, I understand you share his views,  and my point to all that might see this is that The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church does reject such utter blasphemy.



Hiwot, dear sister, you are doing the same annoying thing that Evangelical fundamentalists do when they try to tell us Orthodox what we believe- i.e. "You Orthodox worship Mary, idolize icons, etc." Rather than defending their own belief system, they try to attack Orthodoxy out of ignorance and misinformation. This is exactly what you are doing here, presuming to lecture us about the Rastafarian movement when you obviously know nothing about it. Orthodoxy is not evangelical fundamentalism, condemning and judging others out of ignorance and fear. If that's the version of Christianity you want to practice, then the Tewahedo Faith is not for you. There are plenty of fundamentalist churches that will be glad to accommodate you and your judgmental attitude.


Selam

Oh Gebre We the Orthodox never say JAH MARY and argue with the Evangelicals or any other Christians saying "but but but we do not really mean to say MARY IS JAH  or JAH MARY its just something else".  Roll Eyes Never ! the Orthodox have words that Holy Ecumenical Councils deliberated and decided on as Orthodox and denounced anyone who uses other term than the assigned and fitting to the MOST HOLY THEOTOKOS, and we will defend this title with our very lives if need be. which council came up with the term used for Teferi mekonin , as JAH RASTAFARI? for this blasphemy the Orthodox have no place for!
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« Reply #103 on: November 09, 2011, 05:39:47 PM »

So it's better to tell a sister to get out of the Church? [sarcasm redacted]

If you can't see how badly worded, at the very least, your statements in that post are, shame on you.
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« Reply #104 on: November 09, 2011, 05:49:22 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Let me point of the truths of Ras Zacka's post since folks seem to be too caught up in BS to actually read his words.

He mentioned that HIM is the father figure of Africans, both at home and abroad, and this is absolute truth.  If Ethiopians don't want to be a part of this, fine and dandy, but you can't close pandora's box after the lid is lifted, and HIM campaigned tirelessly across Africa and the African diaspora for decades building tangible links, founding Churches and sociocultural and political institutions like the Ethiopian World Federation.  This is HIM legacy, and literally HH Yesehaq is the pioneer of this movement being the first Ethiopian Bishop sent outside of Africa, specifically to the Diaspora under HIM personal orders.  This is our history, we venerate it as highly as Ethiopians venerate the memory of our dear Saint Abba Selama, who brought Orthodox Light to Ethiopia, and HH Yesehaq and many other dear elders of the Tewahedo Church equally brought this light to we in the Americas who had not such foundation in Orthodox, nor any access to Baptism or Communion. Further, it spreads across Africa, as one of my favorite Ethiopian priests is tirelessly on the move across Africa visiting and preaching and organizing within Ethiopian parishes for Ethiopian expats across Africa and also for African converts.  The Greek Patriarch in Alexandria can make all the claims to Africa HH wants, but Africa is rightfully under African's jurisdiction, and that is the Coptic and Tewahedo Church, and our Tewahedo clergy are making many moves across the African continent to bolster Orthodox.

As I pointed out before, Ethiopia has been a symbol for Africans in the diaspora since Abyssinian days, and HIM legacy is to expand this tangibly, directly, and I couldn't make this history up if I tried.  We're not doing anything new, since the 400s the Ethiopian Church and conversion into it has been the way in which indigenous Ethiopians conform and are adopted into the pluralistic Ethiopian society.  Amharic is almost more so a culture than a race, and it is adopted through life in the Church, which has been Ethiopia's primary mode of cultural transmission.  We in Rastafari, are merely jumping on board with an ancient tradition.  Are we trying to politicize the Church, quite the opposite, we are trying through the Church to get entirely out of politricks.

The brother mentioned spies and assassinations, and if any Ethiopians here deny or keep quiet about these matters, it is only because they know the gravity of the situation.  Rastafari is a movement that from its very conception has been antagonized, demonized, and targeted for destruction by incarceration, misinformation, and at worse assassination.  This is why we don't write our history in books, it has never been safe.  Today, we are becoming some kind of threat to the Ethiopian government, which routinely uses assassination and corruption to thwart its internal enemies in Ethiopia, and we Rastafari are falling under that least because we are unapologetic monarchists, and as much as sistern like Hiwot want to deny it, the desire for a return to the cultural pride and fellowship of a common Ethiopian identity which the Emperors provided as a symbol is so palpable its dense, after all, this ethnic federalism has only further divided what the Derg left of that regal Ethiopian civilization of old.  Today, Ethiopians are as divided as ever, and if they don't want to admit it that is fine, but their political divisions bleed into our Rastafari organizations and communities.  As the Bro mentioned, exiled priests and clergy of the EOTC are victims of slander, abuse, and even physical harm by supporters of the current Ethiopian regime.  This is a dangerous fact which we here in this exile community are concretely aware of.  We pray for the safety our priests and community every day, because it is literally more dangerous than folks might understand, but as we say in Rastafari, "Who feels it knows it."

He mentioned the good Rastafari people do for Ethiopia, we are school teachers, civic leaders, and other kinds of NGO operators within Ethiopia, why do we get disrespected while non-Orthodox Doctors Without Borders or the Red Cross are idealized while we are demonized for mutual efforts in the same direction? HIM assigned Rastafari people a mission, to help Ethiopia, and we continue it with our blood, sweat and tears.  If any Ethiopians disagree with us, fine for them, but we will not let that stop us from continuing our mission.  We are not against Ethiopia, neither are we trying to shape Ethiopia in our image, but we are not foreign colonizers, were a sincere converts and adoptees, and we wish Ethiopians would accept us as readily as we Americans accept Ethiopians in our communities as expats.  It is only fair isn't it?

Now as to the brothers comments about Ethiopians taking communion, or development projects in Shashamane, those are his personal opinions and he is entitled for them to be respected, even if folks disagree, and personally, as an active member of an Ethiopian parish, I agree that folks need to up their game in regards to receiving Qurban, this is a matter of prayer however, not arguments. The drama and danger of the Derg era, I feel, has scarred and scared Ethiopians away from Communion, when historically this was not the case.  It is the first words of our Liturgy to say,"If there is anyone of the faithful that hath entered the Church at the time of Mass and has not received the Holy Communion, let him be driven out of the Church."

 I would never tell ANYONE they need to take Communion, but I would pray that EVERYONE takes it as often as God provides for them.  When I go to Coptic parish, the ENTIRE Church communes together, where as when I commune in the Ethiopian Church, I am literally one of only a dozen men out of hundreds of regular attendees who do such. Surely Ras Zacka is correct to assume there is something wrong with this picture.

In regards to the comments about Ethiopian kids here in the US, that is spot on.  I am currently working with my priests and the Education Steering Committee to redesign our curriculum and to retool our program, specifically to address the crucial issues about this generation gap that is growing.  My priests simply ADORE the efforts of the THREE Rastafari people who work within our program, and they see the fruit that we are building mutually as a parish community.  My students and their families adore me and our efforts, and we know the struggle is real.  Ethiopian-American kids are in danger of dropping the Church, and with the rise of the Pentes, this is an existential threat to the Church even in Ethiopia. So we can either dismiss Ras Zacka's comments as unrealistic, or we can deal with reality and tackle these complex issues in our Church. 

Further,  this was also part of HH Abune Yesehaq's personal campaigns, to reform Sunday School, to openly recruit and include the growing generations into the Church, and to include English and other translations to make it very clear for coming generations who may speak Amharic, but do not use it as an intellectual language because many of these young Ethiopians have been taught in school strictly in English.  They need the help, I can vouch for this from my tangible experience with the young Ethiopians in under my instruction.  We learn mutually from each other, something some folks here on this forum just can't seem to understand or agree with, but reality speaks for itself, and we the workers will not be discouraged by the doubting Thomases and the nay-sayers. 

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #105 on: November 09, 2011, 05:59:11 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Distortion distortion! goodness! what shameful thing to do, Racism has no place in Ethiopian orthodox church, those who preach it are not part of it period they excommunicate themselves, our Dogma will not be compromised by JAH RASTAFARI BS . Its sickening to hear all this straw grasping attempt at rationalising what can never ever be rationalised and trying to divert it to political issues that's even more disgusting!
 your friend came and spewed filth in the name of the blessed bishop, and the Orthodox Faith, God forgive you guys for supporting such filth as orthodox.

What racism? Last I checked, I am White, and brother Ras Zacka has never uttered anything close to resembling a racist or prejudicial word to me. Once again, you've got your guns of judgment firing wildly.


Selam

Oh so you think just because you are White if you were to support  things like black love, black poweretc it should not be read as racist? this like people who say :"I myself am black, but black people are such and such ...insert racist comment!" racism by anyone is racism!  OFC you would say he never uttered anything close to resembling a racist or prejudicial word to you.  there is a lot of filth in what he said but his racism speaks well of what he is, a racist bigot.
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« Reply #106 on: November 09, 2011, 05:59:42 PM »

HabteSelassie,

Thank you for your exegesis on Ras Zacka's post.  Truly, I had great trouble understanding it.  Much of what was written by him presupposes A LOT regarding Ethiopian and Rastafarian history, let alone the unorthodox style in which it was written made it very difficult for me to understand.  I was not "caught up in BS to actually read his words;" I genuinely could not understand much of it.  Had he written as you just did, in cogent, understandable English with some more exposition on certain facets of history, I would have not had to become actively engaged in this discussion.

Again, thank you.
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« Reply #107 on: November 09, 2011, 06:02:21 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



Habte, as an outsider reading this thread, I really don't see that your criticism's of Hiwot's posts are warranted. There is obviously a serious divide between cradle Ethiopian Orthodox and the converts coming from the Rasta movement who still carry their Rasta identity/terminology to varying degrees. This is true in other Orthodox churches as well. As a convert myself, I am aware of this in many instances and find that it's best to be open about it, to acknowledge the fact that there are different and sometimes competing understandings. I've certainly seen a lot along these lines in this thread, much of it along the lines of converts doing the pontificating about what those who grew up in the faith should do or think. I think Hiwot has a very valid point. Saying "God is Rastafari" and meaning something other than the Emperor being God amongst a group of people who may very well misunderstand what you are saying or think that you agree with them (that the Emperor is God) is misleading at best. One must consider the audience and the impression one gives. For an Orthodox Christian to even give the impression that His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I is God is like rejecting Christ and denying his baptism.

I've already invested three hours just on this thread when I really should be working on the curriculum project my priests assigned me to, but as an Orthodox Rastafari communicating the truth accurately on this thread is very important to me, which is why I am the one who started it, and while I see it as no waste of time to be here so long..


We are not trying to tell a Ethiopians what to do, and we are not trying to insinuate that the Church should inherently use our terms, however we are trying to elaborate many slanderous things accused against, including this sister blatantly trying to deny the Orthodox of no less than THREE members of her Church.  How is that a valid argument, simply to dismiss others as being invalid and move on? Further, she isn't tackling the bigger political and cultural issues that have been discussed here, she keeps insisting on this blasphemy charge, and constructing straw-man fallacy arguments against us,even when we have very elaborately explained ourselves.  We can't explain ourselves any  longer, and this conversation has become needlessly "us against them" when that was never the intention of me even starting this thread in the first place.  It is not a "cradle vs convert" issue, all the "cradle" Ethiopians I know have never disrespected Rastafari people as much as this sister insists, and they have never ben as insulting or argumentative with me about these issues.  So I honestly will have to disregard her opinion simply because she insists on repeating the same inaccurate generalizations and accusations without actually considering the responses that folks here have posted to her wild claims.  I'm sorry to her for this, but the truth is truth, and she can't expect us to all agree with her when she condemns us as not being members of the Church we are, of not being a part of the community which we are, and of not knowing what we are talking about, when we do.  If she personally isn't familiar with these issues, maybe she shouldn't have posted dozens of ignorant diatribes here? As I said before, "If a fish woulda keep him big yap shut, him never woulda got caught in the first place."

And as Jah B, Bunny Wailer said confidently about these matters, arguments and misunderstandings aside, "The flag has still got to be hoisted."

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #108 on: November 09, 2011, 06:06:17 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



Habte, as an outsider reading this thread, I really don't see that your criticism's of Hiwot's posts are warranted. There is obviously a serious divide between cradle Ethiopian Orthodox and the converts coming from the Rasta movement who still carry their Rasta identity/terminology to varying degrees. This is true in other Orthodox churches as well. As a convert myself, I am aware of this in many instances and find that it's best to be open about it, to acknowledge the fact that there are different and sometimes competing understandings. I've certainly seen a lot along these lines in this thread, much of it along the lines of converts doing the pontificating about what those who grew up in the faith should do or think. I think Hiwot has a very valid point. Saying "God is Rastafari" and meaning something other than the Emperor being God amongst a group of people who may very well misunderstand what you are saying or think that you agree with them (that the Emperor is God) is misleading at best. One must consider the audience and the impression one gives. For an Orthodox Christian to even give the impression that His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I is God is like rejecting Christ and denying his baptism.

I've already invested three hours just on this thread when I really should be working on the curriculum project my priests assigned me to, but as an Orthodox Rastafari communicating the truth accurately on this thread is very important to me, which is why I am the one who started it, and while I see it as no waste of time to be here so long..


We are not trying to tell a Ethiopians what to do, and we are not trying to insinuate that the Church should inherently use our terms, however we are trying to elaborate many slanderous things accused against, including this sister blatantly trying to deny the Orthodox of no less than THREE members of her Church.  How is that a valid argument, simply to dismiss others as being invalid and move on? Further, she isn't tackling the bigger political and cultural issues that have been discussed here, she keeps insisting on this blasphemy charge, and constructing straw-man fallacy arguments against us,even when we have very elaborately explained ourselves.  We can't explain ourselves any  longer, and this conversation has become needlessly "us against them" when that was never the intention of me even starting this thread in the first place.  It is not a "cradle vs convert" issue, all the "cradle" Ethiopians I know have never disrespected Rastafari people as much as this sister insists, and they have never ben as insulting or argumentative with me about these issues.  So I honestly will have to disregard her opinion simply because she insists on repeating the same inaccurate generalizations and accusations without actually considering the responses that folks here have posted to her wild claims.  I'm sorry to her for this, but the truth is truth, and she can't expect us to all agree with her when she condemns us as not being members of the Church we are, of not being a part of the community which we are, and of not knowing what we are talking about, when we do.  If she personally isn't familiar with these issues, maybe she shouldn't have posted dozens of ignorant diatribes here? As I said before, "If a fish woulda keep him big yap shut, him never woulda got caught in the first place."

And as Jah B, Bunny Wailer said confidently about these matters, arguments and misunderstandings aside, "The flag has still got to be hoisted."

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Habte,

Thank you for replying. I don't know much about Rastafarianism, but you referred to "Jah B, Bunny Wailer," and I was wondering who that is, and what the "Jah" meant.
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« Reply #109 on: November 09, 2011, 06:18:36 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Let me point of the truths of Ras Zacka's post since folks seem to be too caught up in BS to actually read his words.

He mentioned that HIM is the father figure of Africans, both at home and abroad, and this is absolute truth.  If Ethiopians don't want to be a part of this, fine and dandy, but you can't close pandora's box after the lid is lifted, and HIM campaigned tirelessly across Africa and the African diaspora for decades building tangible links, founding Churches and sociocultural and political institutions like the Ethiopian World Federation.  This is HIM legacy, and literally HH Yesehaq is the pioneer of this movement being the first Ethiopian Bishop sent outside of Africa, specifically to the Diaspora under HIM personal orders.  This is our history, we venerate it as highly as Ethiopians venerate the memory of our dear Saint Abba Selama, who brought Orthodox Light to Ethiopia, and HH Yesehaq and many other dear elders of the Tewahedo Church equally brought this light to we in the Americas who had not such foundation in Orthodox, nor any access to Baptism or Communion. Further, it spreads across Africa, as one of my favorite Ethiopian priests is tirelessly on the move across Africa visiting and preaching and organizing within Ethiopian parishes for Ethiopian expats across Africa and also for African converts.  The Greek Patriarch in Alexandria can make all the claims to Africa HH wants, but Africa is rightfully under African's jurisdiction, and that is the Coptic and Tewahedo Church, and our Tewahedo clergy are making many moves across the African continent to bolster Orthodox.

As I pointed out before, Ethiopia has been a symbol for Africans in the diaspora since Abyssinian days, and HIM legacy is to expand this tangibly, directly, and I couldn't make this history up if I tried.  We're not doing anything new, since the 400s the Ethiopian Church and conversion into it has been the way in which indigenous Ethiopians conform and are adopted into the pluralistic Ethiopian society.  Amharic is almost more so a culture than a race, and it is adopted through life in the Church, which has been Ethiopia's primary mode of cultural transmission.  We in Rastafari, are merely jumping on board with an ancient tradition.  Are we trying to politicize the Church, quite the opposite, we are trying through the Church to get entirely out of politricks.

The brother mentioned spies and assassinations, and if any Ethiopians here deny or keep quiet about these matters, it is only because they know the gravity of the situation.  Rastafari is a movement that from its very conception has been antagonized, demonized, and targeted for destruction by incarceration, misinformation, and at worse assassination.  This is why we don't write our history in books, it has never been safe.  Today, we are becoming some kind of threat to the Ethiopian government, which routinely uses assassination and corruption to thwart its internal enemies in Ethiopia, and we Rastafari are falling under that least because we are unapologetic monarchists, and as much as sistern like Hiwot want to deny it, the desire for a return to the cultural pride and fellowship of a common Ethiopian identity which the Emperors provided as a symbol is so palpable its dense, after all, this ethnic federalism has only further divided what the Derg left of that regal Ethiopian civilization of old.  Today, Ethiopians are as divided as ever, and if they don't want to admit it that is fine, but their political divisions bleed into our Rastafari organizations and communities.  As the Bro mentioned, exiled priests and clergy of the EOTC are victims of slander, abuse, and even physical harm by supporters of the current Ethiopian regime.  This is a dangerous fact which we here in this exile community are concretely aware of.  We pray for the safety our priests and community every day, because it is literally more dangerous than folks might understand, but as we say in Rastafari, "Who feels it knows it."

He mentioned the good Rastafari people do for Ethiopia, we are school teachers, civic leaders, and other kinds of NGO operators within Ethiopia, why do we get disrespected while non-Orthodox Doctors Without Borders or the Red Cross are idealized while we are demonized for mutual efforts in the same direction? HIM assigned Rastafari people a mission, to help Ethiopia, and we continue it with our blood, sweat and tears.  If any Ethiopians disagree with us, fine for them, but we will not let that stop us from continuing our mission.  We are not against Ethiopia, neither are we trying to shape Ethiopia in our image, but we are not foreign colonizers, were a sincere converts and adoptees, and we wish Ethiopians would accept us as readily as we Americans accept Ethiopians in our communities as expats.  It is only fair isn't it?

Now as to the brothers comments about Ethiopians taking communion, or development projects in Shashamane, those are his personal opinions and he is entitled for them to be respected, even if folks disagree, and personally, as an active member of an Ethiopian parish, I agree that folks need to up their game in regards to receiving Qurban, this is a matter of prayer however, not arguments. The drama and danger of the Derg era, I feel, has scarred and scared Ethiopians away from Communion, when historically this was not the case.  It is the first words of our Liturgy to say,"If there is anyone of the faithful that hath entered the Church at the time of Mass and has not received the Holy Communion, let him be driven out of the Church."

 I would never tell ANYONE they need to take Communion, but I would pray that EVERYONE takes it as often as God provides for them.  When I go to Coptic parish, the ENTIRE Church communes together, where as when I commune in the Ethiopian Church, I am literally one of only a dozen men out of hundreds of regular attendees who do such. Surely Ras Zacka is correct to assume there is something wrong with this picture.

In regards to the comments about Ethiopian kids here in the US, that is spot on.  I am currently working with my priests and the Education Steering Committee to redesign our curriculum and to retool our program, specifically to address the crucial issues about this generation gap that is growing.  My priests simply ADORE the efforts of the THREE Rastafari people who work within our program, and they see the fruit that we are building mutually as a parish community.  My students and their families adore me and our efforts, and we know the struggle is real.  Ethiopian-American kids are in danger of dropping the Church, and with the rise of the Pentes, this is an existential threat to the Church even in Ethiopia. So we can either dismiss Ras Zacka's comments as unrealistic, or we can deal with reality and tackle these complex issues in our Church. 

Further,  this was also part of HH Abune Yesehaq's personal campaigns, to reform Sunday School, to openly recruit and include the growing generations into the Church, and to include English and other translations to make it very clear for coming generations who may speak Amharic, but do not use it as an intellectual language because many of these young Ethiopians have been taught in school strictly in English.  They need the help, I can vouch for this from my tangible experience with the young Ethiopians in under my instruction.  We learn mutually from each other, something some folks here on this forum just can't seem to understand or agree with, but reality speaks for itself, and we the workers will not be discouraged by the doubting Thomases and the nay-sayers. 

stay blessed,
habte selassie


Ethiopians are not against those who would come to Ethiopia and find a home in there , our hospitality is something we hold sacred. However no matter how much economic and political good that might bring to both sides, the problem we are now facing is a union that seems to harbor idolatry tendencies and unorthodox practices. we hold our faith above all things dear . we can discuss all the politics and social governance that currently is of concern to Ethiopia and Ethiopians, and Still it has no baring when it comes to the Faith that is professed by the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.

The making of this issue into a political conspiracy issue is something I will not engage. As my interest is not to dwell on who is doing what for the betterment of Ethiopians or for the Rastafarian political movement. My interest is to Stress that veneration of Saints is authentically Orthodox. I have nothing against venerating those holy men and women of orthodoxy. however the faith confessed by some harbors the tares of heresy and wherever it is seen it will be challenged and refuted. the Orthodox will never accept the scandalous Idolatry terminology of JAH being RASTAFARI.

Venerate Teferi mekonin as a Saint when he is canonised, venerate him privately even now, however JAH RASTAFARI remains the confession of the rastafarians who worship The man Teferi mekonin. and those who say they have joined the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church can not repeat such blasphemy and say JAH RASTAFARI I which specifically refers to JAH IS RASTAFARI the first AKA the Emperor Halie Selassie the First (I).
 
Simple yet a demarcation line. I rest my case.
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« Reply #110 on: November 09, 2011, 06:22:03 PM »

So it's better to tell a sister to get out of the Church? [sarcasm redacted]

If you can't see how badly worded, at the very least, your statements in that post are, shame on you.


To be honest, I was trying to make a point and got caught up in trying to make Hiwot see how it feels to have my faith questioned. But I agree that wasn't very Christian of me. I certainly would NEVER want anyone to leave the Church, regardless of their sins or mistakes. I'm pretty sure Hiwot knows that; but just to be sure, I offer her my sincere apology. Thank you for the reprimand IsmiLiora.


Selam
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« Reply #111 on: November 09, 2011, 06:23:50 PM »

greetings in that divine and most precious name of our lord and savior jesus christ!



 My interest is to Stress that veneration of Saints is authentically Orthodox.

a) yes we get that, its been the only theme of your diatribes.


b) and yet you still refuse to listen to folks explain what they mean when they talk and use terms? I would equally agree with you that Rastafari peoples need to conform to Orthodox, but you are out of line when you condemn others as not being Orthodox even when they explain themselves to you while you refuse to listen.  You can construct all your own straw-man arguments you want, but wouldn't it be better to join our actual conversation instead of the one you seem to be having with yourself?

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #112 on: November 09, 2011, 06:25:32 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Distortion distortion! goodness! what shameful thing to do, Racism has no place in Ethiopian orthodox church, those who preach it are not part of it period they excommunicate themselves, our Dogma will not be compromised by JAH RASTAFARI BS . Its sickening to hear all this straw grasping attempt at rationalising what can never ever be rationalised and trying to divert it to political issues that's even more disgusting!
 your friend came and spewed filth in the name of the blessed bishop, and the Orthodox Faith, God forgive you guys for supporting such filth as orthodox.

What racism? Last I checked, I am White, and brother Ras Zacka has never uttered anything close to resembling a racist or prejudicial word to me. Once again, you've got your guns of judgment firing wildly.


Selam

Oh so you think just because you are White if you were to support  things like black love, black poweretc it should not be read as racist? this like people who say :"I myself am black, but black people are such and such ...insert racist comment!" racism by anyone is racism!  OFC you would say he never uttered anything close to resembling a racist or prejudicial word to you.  there is a lot of filth in what he said but his racism speaks well of what he is, a racist bigot.


Dear sister, to affirm Blackness is not equivalent to disparaging other races. Was Abuna Yesehaq a racist because he titled his book, "The Ethiopian Tewahedo Church: An Integrally African Church"?


Selam
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« Reply #113 on: November 09, 2011, 06:28:40 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I sense wolves surrounding this thread ready to pounce on the first sign of private.....

PP

That is because Bro Ras Zacka brought up very specific, almost secret, politics between Rastafari community, the Synod and Ethiopia, the exile Synod and parishes here in the US, and of course that scandalous current government in Ethiopia who Ethiopians despise more than we Rastafari people do.  Whenever you talk about these specific topics with any Ethiopians, your bound to see a lot of demons pop up into the conversation from all sides.  I see these eruptions happen quite frequently, because these are sensitive issues to say the least.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Distortion distortion! goodness! what shameful thing to do, Racism has no place in Ethiopian orthodox church, those who preach it are not part of it period they excommunicate themselves, our Dogma will not be compromised by JAH RASTAFARI BS . Its sickening to hear all this straw grasping attempt at rationalising what can never ever be rationalised and trying to divert it to political issues that's even more disgusting!
 your friend came and spewed filth in the name of the blessed bishop, and the Orthodox Faith, God forgive you guys for supporting such filth as orthodox.

What racism? Last I checked, I am White, and brother Ras Zacka has never uttered anything close to resembling a racist or prejudicial word to me. Once again, you've got your guns of judgment firing wildly.


Selam

Oh so you think just because you are White if you were to support  things like black love, black poweretc it should not be read as racist? this like people who say :"I myself am black, but black people are such and such ...insert racist comment!" racism by anyone is racism!  OFC you would say he never uttered anything close to resembling a racist or prejudicial word to you.  there is a lot of filth in what he said but his racism speaks well of what he is, a racist bigot.


Dear sister, to affirm Blackness is not equivalent to disparaging other races. Was Abuna Yesehaq a racist because he titled his book, "The Ethiopian Tewahedo Church: An Integrally African Church"?


Selam


is this once again your way of comparing of appels and oranges? what your friend said is a different animal we all know that !  again stop using the name of the blessed bishop to rationalise what can not be rationalised.
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« Reply #114 on: November 09, 2011, 07:06:24 PM »

greetings in that divine and most precious name of our lord and savior jesus christ!



 My interest is to Stress that veneration of Saints is authentically Orthodox.

a) yes we get that, its been the only theme of your diatribes.


b) and yet you still refuse to listen to folks explain what they mean when they talk and use terms? I would equally agree with you that Rastafarian peoples need to conform to Orthodox, but you are out of line when you condemn others as not being Orthodox even when they explain themselves to you while you refuse to listen.  You can construct all your own straw-man arguments you want, but wouldn't it be better to join our actual conversation instead of the one you seem to be having with yourself?

stay blessed,
habte selassie


oh do not worry I will not tire of denouncing heresy that wants to seep into the Ethiopian Orthodox Church,   Grin It seems to me , it is you who would not listen to anyone else other than your nationalist cult, in insisting that they keep their idolatry of the Emperor by denying the plain meaning of the term they have been using as a declaration of their blasphemous faith of saying that the emperor is the Christ Incarnate. that JAH is RASTAFARI the first! outrageous to even think of. And I will say this again no matter how much Rastafarian's who worship teferi mekonin say and  those who say they are converted but obviously see the Church as a nationalistic political arena and as such continue to bring the blasphemous phrase of JAH IS RASTAFARI I will be perpetually denounced by the Church and the Faithful Orthodox. I care for those who would renounce their former ways with all its unorthodox baggage, now with those I worship in Communion.  Which ever way you dice it, the fact remains the Emperor Hailesilase I , is dead, is not the king of the Church, is never party of those who engaged in the idolatry. and all those who love to say JAH RASTAFARI will answer to the True God.

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« Reply #115 on: November 09, 2011, 08:10:07 PM »

This thread has become so contentious, and I truly believe that much of the rancor is due to profound misunderstandings amongst us. I want to apologize if I have not communicated my thoughts clearly, and I also sincerely apologize for the un-Christian tone of many of my comments. We are all Orthodox brethren here, and Satan will do whatever he can to divide us. Since my comments have not seemed to further understanding and peace, I thought it best that I bow out of this discussion now and leave you with some inspirational words from His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I- words with which I certainly hope we can all agree:


“Sound and organized deliberation and action by men who may have neither family, nor religion, nor tribe, nor neighborhood in common, but who have, notwithstanding, been able to come together, to identify their common interests, and to agree upon effective programs to advance those interests... This is the new attitude which must be encouraged: the communal as opposed to the individual approach, the spirit of working together so that all may benefit.”  -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“How long will we, who are disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ, who are taught by the same Holy Bible, continue to remain divided among ourselves?”  -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“Had we been Christian people, had we been worthy of the name, peace would have reigned on all the face of the Earth. We would have risen to the level of the immortal angels who always glorify the Eternal God, and the peoples of the world would no longer have remained divided into hostile camps.”  
-H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“Above all, we must avoid the pitfalls of tribalism. If we are divided among ourselves, we open our doors to harmful consequences.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“He who would efface the sacred work of Almighty God, he who would abuse the mysteries of God’s creation and discriminate between man and man – whom God created equal – on the basis of color, race, or creed, calls down upon himself disaster and ruin.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“Until ignorance has been eradicated, understanding and sympathy cannot truly exist among men. Without tolerance and comprehension, peace will not be assured.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“The very diversity of the world’s people today constitutes one of mankind’s greatest resources. Each of us depends upon the other, can learn from the other, and in pursuing its own destiny will go further and succeed more quickly with others. Indeed, the free exchange of ideas is an essential condition to world understanding and world progress.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-



Selam
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« Reply #116 on: November 10, 2011, 05:16:17 AM »

This thread has become so contentious, and I truly believe that much of the rancor is due to profound misunderstandings amongst us. I want to apologize if I have not communicated my thoughts clearly, and I also sincerely apologize for the un-Christian tone of many of my comments. We are all Orthodox brethren here, and Satan will do whatever he can to divide us. Since my comments have not seemed to further understanding and peace, I thought it best that I bow out of this discussion now and leave you with some inspirational words from His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I- words with which I certainly hope we can all agree:


“Sound and organized deliberation and action by men who may have neither family, nor religion, nor tribe, nor neighborhood in common, but who have, notwithstanding, been able to come together, to identify their common interests, and to agree upon effective programs to advance those interests... This is the new attitude which must be encouraged: the communal as opposed to the individual approach, the spirit of working together so that all may benefit.”  -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“How long will we, who are disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ, who are taught by the same Holy Bible, continue to remain divided among ourselves?”  -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“Had we been Christian people, had we been worthy of the name, peace would have reigned on all the face of the Earth. We would have risen to the level of the immortal angels who always glorify the Eternal God, and the peoples of the world would no longer have remained divided into hostile camps.”  
-H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“Above all, we must avoid the pitfalls of tribalism. If we are divided among ourselves, we open our doors to harmful consequences.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“He who would efface the sacred work of Almighty God, he who would abuse the mysteries of God’s creation and discriminate between man and man – whom God created equal – on the basis of color, race, or creed, calls down upon himself disaster and ruin.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“Until ignorance has been eradicated, understanding and sympathy cannot truly exist among men. Without tolerance and comprehension, peace will not be assured.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-

“The very diversity of the world’s people today constitutes one of mankind’s greatest resources. Each of us depends upon the other, can learn from the other, and in pursuing its own destiny will go further and succeed more quickly with others. Indeed, the free exchange of ideas is an essential condition to world understanding and world progress.” -H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I-



Selam


Oh missed this one, well since we are qouting information why don't we add  something relevant to the Dogmatic point too, hmm let see sometimes wikipidea is the easiest source to go to, but I am sure others can search other sites as well and see Why it is so important to denounce the Rastafarian heresy of saying Jah Rastafarian, by those who outright worship him and by those who deny of worship and yet still go on using this blasphemous term. here is the Rastafarian prayer and the real meaning of JAH RASTAFARI :

"In public gatherings, Rastafari often say the following standard prayer, with several variants, comparable to the Lord's Prayer:
 "Princes and princesses shall come forth out of Egypt, Ethiopia now stretch forth her hands before Jah. O Thou God of Ethiopia, Thou God of Thy Divine Majesty, Thy Spirit come into our hearts, to dwell in the paths of righteousness. Lead and help I and I to forgive, that InI may be forgiven. Teach I and I Love and loyalty on earth as it is in Zion, Endow us with Thy wisemind, knowledge and Overstanding to do thy will, thy blessings to us, that the hungry might be fed, the sick nourished, the aged protected, the naked clothed and the infants cared for. Deliver I and I from the hands of our enemy, that I and I may prove fruitful in these Last Days, when our enemy have passed and decayed in the depths of the sea, in the depths of the earth, or in the belly of a beast. O give us a place in Thy Kingdom forever and ever, so we hail our majesty Haile Selassie I, Jehovah God, Rastafari, Almighty God, Rastafari, great and powerful God Jah, Rastafari. Who sitteth and reigneth in the heart of man and woman, hear us and bless us and sanctify us, and cause Thy loving Face to shine upon us thy children, that we may be saved, Selah."
When lighting a chalice, the following, shorter invocation is often used: "Glory be to the Father and to the Maker of Iration, as it were in the Iginning, is now an shall be foriva, world without end, SELAH."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari_movement

For this blasphemy no amount of rationalisation will make it orthodox.

as to the political conspiracy theory of the spies and assasinations against rastas in carabian and the US , poisoning of our blessed bishop by Ethiopians, the return of the earthly monarchy which will put the already self proclaimed royalties of rastafari into some kind of coveted royal court. the insinuation that had it not been for rastafarians in shashamene who smoke the ganja and are inspired to benevolent towards  Ethiopians who are  prostitutes and HIV infested ignorants ,that they all would have remained prostitutes and HIV infested degenerates, well those messianic monarchists who lust after an earthly kingdom can indeed continue to engage in their collective neurotic  fantasies while they do what amounts to political group masturbation of what is essentially a manifestation of human ego and lust for power,while detached from reality in the vision of the Returning Monarchy, while exclaiming JAH RASTAFARI , and go to a la la land of  Earthly Utopia. But None of that junk is the Orthodox Faith.

And those Ethiopians who do not commune for this reason or that, at least they are not in heretical doctrine, where there is the True Faith there is always hope of repentance and reconciliation. however those who will go back to their former ways and insist not to part with their idols will remain in the darkness of their blasphemous heresy. and woe to those who commune of the Holy Mysteries and go home to chant their idolatry.

The Church and the youth of the church are shepherded  by the true Shepherd Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, What the Holy Spirit seeks to do no one and nothing can stop. Those who teach the young must first themselves be in the Orthodox Faith and Holy Tradition. the acceptance of men does not equate to the acceptance of God. correct your ways abandon your idols then preach the faith and serve the Church. until then how many men give witness to what One does, the witness of the Spirit of Truth will condemn the hidden idols One harbors. and Our God is a Jealous God and a Consuming Fire!

there is a lot of political distraction that was attempted in here from the main blasphemy that was being addressed. the fact that even happend in order to prevent the abandoning of former idols and blasphemies speaks for itself.and I will not say anymore about it. beacause our conversation is that of a matter of DOGMA of the Orthodox Faith.

In Christ,
Hiwot.
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« Reply #117 on: November 10, 2011, 07:07:34 AM »

Because as you already know, "JAH" means God. And "Rastafari" means ruler or head of creation. Brother Habte Selassie may elaborate on this more if he wishes.

I understand you are not using the words 'Ras Tafari' to mean the Emperor when you say that phrase. However, the original use of the phrase is obviously intended to mean that Ras Tafari Makonen is Jah, which is blasphemy.

It is a bit like a former Muslim shouting "There is no god but God, and Muhammad is the Messenger of God!!" and saying that it's okay because the Arabic word Muhammad simply means 'praiseworthy', and therefore it's just a way for someone to express that the messengers of God are worthy of veneration, which is obviously an Orthodox concept.

I don't think one can legitimise use of phrases like that one simply by disassociating a name from a person by concentrating on it's etymology rather than its attribution. I know that you are not in any way an worshipper of man, nor have anything but the best intentions in this respect, but I think the use of such phrases, at least publicly, is dangerous and can blur the clear lines between truth and error.
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« Reply #118 on: November 10, 2011, 12:09:07 PM »

"..God gave unto David His servant grace before Him, and granted unto him that there should sit upon the throne of Godhead One of his seed in the flesh, from the Virgin, and should judge the living and the dead, and reward every man according to his work, One to whom praise is meet, our Lord Jesus Christ, for ever and ever, Amen. And He gave him one on the earth who should become king over the *Tabernacle of the Law, of the holy heavenly Zion*, that is to say, the King of Ethiopia. And as for those who reigned, who were not of Israel (Ie. of the line of Q'damawi Menelik), that was due to the transgression of the law and the commandment, whereat God was not pleased." Kibre Negest chapter 34 page 42.

*According to the Kibre Negest, within the "man-made Zion" there are the two Tables of the Covenant, a Gomor of gold containing a measure of the manna which came down from heaven, the rod of Aaron which sprouted after it had become withered though no one watered it with water (and one had broken it in two places and it became three rods being originally only one rod), and also the spiritual/original Zion. The Kibre Negest says chapter 17: "Now the heavenly and spiritual [original] within it (within the man-made Zion) is of divers colours, and the work thereof is marvellous, and it resembleth jasper, and the sparkling stone, and the topaz, and the hyacinthine stone (?), and the crystal, and the light, and it catcheth the eye by force, and it astonisheth the mind and stupefieth it with wonder; it was made by the mind of God and not by the hand of the artificer, man, but He Himself created it for the habitation of His glory. And it is a spiritual thing and is full of compassion; it is a heavenly thing and is full of light; it is a thing of freedom and a habitation of the Godhead, whose habitation is in heaven, and whose place of movement is on the earth, and it dwelleth with men and with the angels, a city of salvation for men, and for the Holy Spirit a habitation." Again in chapter 98: "And the heavenly, spiritual Zion, is above them (above the things that are within the man-made Zion), the Zion, the making and constitution of which are wonderful, of which God Himself is her Maker and Fashioner for the habitation of His glory... And the spiritual Zion is to be interpreted as the light of the Godhead. The spiritual Pearl which is contained in the Tabernacle is like a brilliant gem of great price, and he who hath acquired it holdeth it tightly in his hand, grasping it and hiding it in his hand, and whilst the gem is in his hand its owner goeth into the Tabernacle, and he is an inmate therein. And he who possesseth the Pearl is interpreted as the Word of God, Christ. And the spiritual Pearl which is grasped is to be interpreted as Mary, the Mother of the Light, through whom "’Akratos", the "Unmixed", assumed a body. In her He made a Temple for Himself of her pure body, and from her was born the Light of Light, God of God, Who was born of His own free will, and was not made by the hand of another, but He made a Temple for Himself through an incomprehensible wisdom which transcendeth the mind of man."

In addition I read: "...its use (Ie. the Kibre Negest) in religio-political propaganda by the leading Ethiopian churchman, Takla-Haimanot, who later became probably the first Itchege, proved to be highly effective in leading to the overthrow of the Zagwe Dynasty and the accession or restoration of the supposedly Solomonic Dynasty, under Emperor Yekuno Amlak (1270-1285)." Source: http://tezeta.net/5/social-structure-of-the-ethiopian-church-by-ephraim-isaac.

And I also read in a book on Ethiopia, a country guide called "Petit futé - Ethiopie", page 122, a summary of the story of King Lalibela. And in it it is said that King Lalibela, before his departure, asked that the power be given, not to his son, but to the representant of another dynasty, the Solomonic dynasty even, but they did not listen to him and they crowned his nephew after his departure. Indeed, King Lalibela was of the Zagwe dynasty, and the Zagwes were considered to be usurpers of the throne. But the case of St. Lalibela is a bit special, and Let those who do not know about how he ascended the throne read the story of his accession to the throne as told in the EOTC.

Now, by assuming these infos put above are factual: Is not the behavior of the current generation of Ethiopians a blatant compromise? They venerate St. Tekle Haymanot and St. Lalibela and in general they tell you they accept the Kibre Negest because their Church accepts it, but on the other hand support anti-monarchist parties that give no place to the Crown.

Let Meles move, King Solomon blood-line lives..






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« Reply #119 on: November 10, 2011, 01:04:51 PM »

Is the Kebra Negast considered a part of the EOTC canon now? I understand it has some religious significance (though I don't really know to what degree to those who aren't Rasta conspiracy theorists), but to use it to substantiate political/dynastic claims that have really nothing to do with the Orthodox faith...this bizarre, cultish behavior is really unbecoming. The Ethiopian Orthodox Church survives without the monarchy, and will always survive without the monarchy in any political situation because of its strong faith. All this political stuff is something else.
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« Reply #120 on: November 10, 2011, 01:30:24 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



there is a lot of political distraction that was attempted in here from the main blasphemy that was being addressed. the fact that even happend in order to prevent the abandoning of former idols and blasphemies speaks for itself.and I will not say anymore about it. beacause our conversation is that of a matter of DOGMA of the Orthodox Faith.

In Christ,
Hiwot.

Actually my kind sister, this thread was not started to proclaim the divinity of the Emperor, but to simply celebrate HIM legacy and history without the kinds of arguments that YOU started and YOU continue to have and which we of a Rastafari community have only been so polite as to continue trying to discuss these matters with you, so that you can learn about our culture and philosophies straight from the horse's mouth so to speak, and not from some silly Wikipedia.  We do not use Wikipedia to define your personal Ethiopian culture, identity, history, and experience, please don't try to use it to trump us when we are testifying to you.  GMK and I did not make up our interpretations of Rastafari, we are members of a community, that involves many people, and we learn mutually.  We are not making it up, we are participating.  

Rastafari is as diverse as Christianity, are all Christians Catholics? Are all Christians Orthodox? Do all Christians fully understand the Trinity, or the Real Presence, or the Virgin Mary, even within Orthodox? Aren't there Ethiopians, even in the Church, today who mistakenly support Immaculate Conception? Should we condemn to hell and deny their Orthodoxy because of a misunderstanding, or shouldn't we pray in the spirit of reconciliation, offering a fellowship, for its as Our Lord said, "He who is not against you, if for you."  So please be less scathing over your insistent misunderstanding of this issue.  Don't act like you don't know me and GMK, don't act like you don't read our posts and join our discussions, don't act like until this thread you agreed with our Orthodoxy, don't act like we are not Orthodox simply because you say so, that is for our priests do decide, and they disagree with you completely.  

Further, it is because our priests actually LISTEN to what we say, and again, as you said, we have the right to venerate non-canonized Saints in private, and no one here was saying, "It is Orthodox to publicly venerate HIM, it is required of ALL Ethiopian Orthodox to venerate Emperor" however you are dead-wrong when you tell us as individuals that we don't have this right to practice our devotion in private.  Private does not mean secret, it simply means that the Church does not celebrate the Saint in Liturgy, we members can still venerate them, this is because of the Church Triumphant and Communion of ALL SAINTS, those canonized are canonized for public, liturgical worship, but they are not necessarily elevated above or better than any other saint of God's kingdom, you and I included, which is precisely why we say in Christian to our brothers and sisters, "Pray for me." Is that a sin? Are we insinuating that all Christians are God when we ask them to pray for us?  If some of us here see HIM as a Saint, we have that right of the Holy Spirit, and if we insist that HIM is NOT GOD, how are you to tell us what we are saying HIM is, when that is simply not the case?

This was not a thread to worship the Emperor, this was a thread to praise the legacy, and you would have been better to offer nostalgic stories and testimonies as an Ethiopian women your experience with HIM, instead of simply needlessly arguing against your brethren and sistren who you seem to misunderstand.  This was a slightly political thread, because it was about the Emperor, who is a political figure. You misunderstood Ras Zacka's implications with the conspiracies and assassinations, the brother was testifying that Ethiopian clergy and people face an existential threat from the current Ethiopian regime, and we Rastafari people are a part of that risk, not because of our love for the Emperor, but simply because we are now part of the Ethiopian community. If you don't believe the stories, I can tell you from experience they are true, I fellowship with that parish in Dallas and there are many other dangerous and crazy stories, so that we here in exile in the US and abroad pray day and night for the safety of our leaders, our clergy, and our membership.  We Rastafari are part of the Community, HIM invited us, and if you don't like it that is your opinion, but I have never met Ethiopians as vociferously negative towards  Rastafari people in their Church as you have been on this thread, I can only pray that you are hiding behind the internet, and if we met in your parish face to face you wouldn't dare be so rude to a visiting member of our mutual Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #121 on: November 10, 2011, 01:48:58 PM »

So, do Rastafari worship HIM as the incarnation of Christ of not?

PP
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« Reply #122 on: November 10, 2011, 02:23:20 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

So, do Rastafari worship HIM as the incarnation of Christ of not?

PP
Yes some, indeed many, but clearly not all.  As I said before, Rastafari is a diverse community.  Are all Christians the same, or Muslims, or Jews? Are all Orthodox the same? What about Oriental and Eastern? And the Catholics? We have difference of views, histories, cultures, and opinions, but the commonality is Jesus Christ and the Holy Scriptures and a lot of mutual history.  The same is with Rastafari, some groups or mansions adhere to one philosophy, some to another.  Some folks see HIM as the return of the Incarnate Christ, the Second Coming, some Rastafari don't even believe in Jesus Christ or the Bible, and see HIM as God Almighty on HIM own.  So see HIM as the Father incarnate, and the Son being another, and the Holy Spirit being incarnate in the person of Marcus Mosiah Garvey.  However, what Rastafari communities like the EWF, the Twelve Tribes of Israel, and especially those Rastafari idren and sistern who are baptized, functioning, and active members of Ethiopian parishes, are "Orthodox Rastafari" and these profess the Emperor to be a Saint, not God.  That is what GMK and myself have been trying to elucidate and clarify, but some folks here insist on not listening to our heartical testimony, and instead insist on condemning us by their own straw-man fallacy accusations.  That is a shame to me, because it is all One Love, One God, One Aim, One Destiny, and why then the ism and schism?

I myself, and many many Rastafari folks DO NOT WORSHIP THE EMPEROR AS GOD in any way, shape, or form.  Rather, we see the Emperor as a Saint, bearing the Grace of God in a unique, kingly way.  HIM, like the other canonized kings and emperors of Christendom, is a King amongst Saints, and we here in Rastafari and Orthodox honor and revere HIM as such, this is our testimony, and it is surely grounded in Orthodox.  Those Rastafari who wrongfully worship the Emperor, we must pray for them, and offer them the spirit of fellowship and reconciliation that by God's Grace they see the True Light of Jesus Christ, which HIM tirelessly pointed towards, and gave HIM entire legacy on behalf there of.  

I will never deny being a Rastafari brother, and folks could never deny my Orthodox, only by their own misconceptions.  We in the Orthodox Rastafari have our parishes, have our priests, have married and and been adopted by the Ethiopian community at large, so realistically, some folks should simply


stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 02:23:42 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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Posts: 104


God is VERY GREAT and I am very small


« Reply #123 on: November 10, 2011, 02:34:28 PM »

Is the Kebra Negast considered a part of the EOTC canon now? I understand it has some religious significance (though I don't really know to what degree to those who aren't Rasta conspiracy theorists), but to use it to substantiate political/dynastic claims that have really nothing to do with the Orthodox faith...this bizarre, cultish behavior is really unbecoming. The Ethiopian Orthodox Church survives without the monarchy, and will always survive without the monarchy in any political situation because of its strong faith. All this political stuff is something else.

Well, it's very unfortunate that you did not born in the time of St. Tekle Haymanot or St. Lalibela, or in the time of those who compiled the Kibre Negest, you would have been able to rebuke them for this matter, huh?

Why do you reject monarchy and the rule of the Solomonic dynasty? Ethiopia being a kingdom, a monarchy, does not prevent the voice of the people to work outside of the private sphere of limited power conferred to a Sovereign from his enthronement until his departure. There can be democracy in a monarchy. Mentality has changed and so I doubt if monarchy is restored it will be as in the time of Tewodros for example. Why don't you want to welcome constitutional monarchy: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/constitutional+monarchy? Hey Ethiopians! Stop playing the "rebels".. You all behave like these stiff-naked Jews..



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« Reply #124 on: November 10, 2011, 02:50:04 PM »

giv thanks mi beloved bredrines who understand wat i man talking about.i will type in lower case as its a sin to use the machine in higher case for one i hav poor eyesight and two i am not expert typist ,but because his majesty and abba yesehaq inspired i to study education i type with one finger.not like you educated and pious ones who are experts who can cut n copy...and i hope am not denounced on yr forun because orthodoxy in yr eyes means to spell properly and use code of text preparation.JAH LIVES AND ALL WEAK HEART MUST TREMBLE!!!..our only enemy is satan.yes you gonna tired to see we faces orthodox ppl.a new vine has been engrafted..OUR LORD THE DREADED CHRISTOS has done a new thing in these last days.gone are the days of rich empires embracing orthodoxy ,but here is the days when human bengs denied birthrights are called ,chosen,and precious in the eyes of their CREATOR.we been robbed of language ,culture n tradition an any christian who deny our identity cry must get a hearttransplant of LOVE.AL churches should give therapy and embrace rastas and console them because they recognise their plight of 500 yrs of rape,torture,and greed by western civilations which our prophet and national marcus garvey came in the spirit of john the baptist did and same way he cursed the emperor as john cursed christ.its educational and some learnt elder can giv the name of the parrallels of the incident..abuna yesehaq did explain it.this draws the drive to study our bibles again and learn about CHRISTOS,and more reality to our understanding is added for our salvation.am happy no woman can be priests so i can see them wrecking the church of CHRISTOS WITH BAD TEMPER.so where is the LOVE OF GOD.we treat each other as scribes and pharisees at times and avoid the weightier matter.LOVE FOR ALL MANKIND IS IT.ONE BLACK LOVE IS IT.love is like black to me ,because it can blot out wrongs.black is beautiful.i think cCHRIST AND ST MARY is black..not european.looking just like my dad.abuna yesehaq teach this too..because we were battered and bruised,robbed and peeled,to the shame of egypt and ethiopia our expectation,therefore we wetre carried off naked and barefeet,with our bottocks uncovered,both men n women n children t because of the shame of ethiopia...isiah chapter 20.....we need a big dialogue.
leaders cannot deny that.a new vine is engrafted in the olive tree,its rasta orthodox...its all races of the earth,who was rejected and seeking identity.ABUNA YESEHAQ IS EXPERT IN THIS.HIS OWN PPL SELL HIM OUT.ONLY RASTAFARIANS FED HIM AND PAY HIS RENT.ETHIOPIAND DENIED HIM A SALARY.DO HIWOT EVER ASK ABBA IF HE WAS HUNGRY?I KNO IT.SHE IS ETHNIC TOO.I HOPE NOT.WE MUST STRIVE TO UNITE AGAINST satan OUR ENEMY ,AND STOP PUTTING CONDEMNATION ON EACH OTHER TO PROVE A POINT.SO WHO GONNA TEACH THESE BEAUTIFUL RASTAS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD?the true christians with tolerance n good will.study about a man before yu judge him.Habte was only exaulting a forgotten public holyday forgotten in ethiopia...thanks brother..is haile selassie really in that tomb?because we heard its a mock funeral abuna paulos that jackal planned to cover his illegal selection.after 17 yrs....hmmmm..it looks fishy...yu can fool some ppl sometimes,but yu cannot fool all the people all the while..The monarchy carried christianity to pagan ethiopians.it must be restored.it makes us proud in the diaspora because we had nothing,so it was beginning of our integrity to show soladarity to christian monarchy as english monarchy put is in jail for mentioning ETHIOPIAN MONARCHY DAYS GONE BY.SEE all of you here dont know about jamaica and port royal history...WE ARE THE SURVIVORS.WE MEAN GOOD TO ETHIOPIA AND GOD FEARERS...LOL..OR GOD TAFARIS!!..LOLL.if rasta is stone that the builders refuse..it will become head corner stone.rastas are now ordained clergy and fast and pray.who r you to deny a mans faith.RASTAFARI IIS A WAY OF LIFE.NOT RELIGION OR FAITH.DONT MIX IT.ethiopian worship exist from before abraham,but after pattern of NOAH.IT just enter into the hearts of man to glorify a THE LORD SO IF ITS NOT A GOD THING IT WILL SURELY FADE AWAY GAMALIEL SAID SO IF ORTHODOX RASTA IS NOT AUTHENTIC..LEAVE IT TO GOD.i see a special sentimental LOVING relationship,which is very intimate between rastafari and ethiopia,and its amazing.and some haters are jealous..but the union will perfect a people prepared for the lord which will bring the present unto THE LORD OF ZION..isiah ch 18....MORE LOVE AND MORE POWERS UNTO ALL WHO LOVE AND HATE I AND THE I ,IN YOU!!!HAILE BLESSED LOVE COVER THE EARTH AS WATER COVER THE SEA.NO OFFENCE AGAINST NO ONE,SO YR MY BLOOD N CHRIST,AND NO WEAPON FORMED AGAINST US SHALL PROSPER.LET JAH ARISE!!
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« Reply #125 on: November 10, 2011, 03:00:52 PM »

giv thanks mi beloved bredrines who understand wat i man talking about.i will type in lower case as its a sin to use the machine in higher case for one i hav poor eyesight and two i am not expert typist ,but because his majesty and abba yesehaq inspired i to study education i type with one finger.not like you educated and pious ones who are experts who can cut n copy...and i hope am not denounced on yr forun because orthodoxy in yr eyes means to spell properly and use code of text preparation.JAH LIVES AND ALL WEAK HEART MUST TREMBLE!!!..our only enemy is satan.yes you gonna tired to see we faces orthodox ppl.a new vine has been engrafted..OUR LORD THE DREADED CHRISTOS has done a new thing in these last days.gone are the days of rich empires embracing orthodoxy ,but here is the days when human bengs denied birthrights are called ,chosen,and precious in the eyes of their CREATOR.we been robbed of language ,culture n tradition an any christian who deny our identity cry must get a hearttransplant of LOVE.AL churches should give therapy and embrace rastas and console them because they recognise their plight of 500 yrs of rape,torture,and greed by western civilations which our prophet and national marcus garvey came in the spirit of john the baptist did and same way he cursed the emperor as john cursed christ.its educational and some learnt elder can giv the name of the parrallels of the incident..abuna yesehaq did explain it.this draws the drive to study our bibles again and learn about CHRISTOS,and more reality to our understanding is added for our salvation.am happy no woman can be priests so i can see them wrecking the church of CHRISTOS WITH BAD TEMPER.so where is the LOVE OF GOD.we treat each other as scribes and pharisees at times and avoid the weightier matter.LOVE FOR ALL MANKIND IS IT.ONE BLACK LOVE IS IT.love is like black to me ,because it can blot out wrongs.black is beautiful.i think cCHRIST AND ST MARY is black..not european.looking just like my dad.abuna yesehaq teach this too..because we were battered and bruised,robbed and peeled,to the shame of egypt and ethiopia our expectation,therefore we wetre carried off naked and barefeet,with our bottocks uncovered,both men n women n children t because of the shame of ethiopia...isiah chapter 20.....we need a big dialogue.
leaders cannot deny that.a new vine is engrafted in the olive tree,its rasta orthodox...its all races of the earth,who was rejected and seeking identity.ABUNA YESEHAQ IS EXPERT IN THIS.HIS OWN PPL SELL HIM OUT.ONLY RASTAFARIANS FED HIM AND PAY HIS RENT.ETHIOPIAND DENIED HIM A SALARY.DO HIWOT EVER ASK ABBA IF HE WAS HUNGRY?I KNO IT.SHE IS ETHNIC TOO.I HOPE NOT.WE MUST STRIVE TO UNITE AGAINST satan OUR ENEMY ,AND STOP PUTTING CONDEMNATION ON EACH OTHER TO PROVE A POINT.SO WHO GONNA TEACH THESE BEAUTIFUL RASTAS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD?the true christians with tolerance n good will.study about a man before yu judge him.Habte was only exaulting a forgotten public holyday forgotten in ethiopia...thanks brother..is haile selassie really in that tomb?because we heard its a mock funeral abuna paulos that jackal planned to cover his illegal selection.after 17 yrs....hmmmm..it looks fishy...yu can fool some ppl sometimes,but yu cannot fool all the people all the while..The monarchy carried christianity to pagan ethiopians.it must be restored.it makes us proud in the diaspora because we had nothing,so it was beginning of our integrity to show soladarity to christian monarchy as english monarchy put is in jail for mentioning ETHIOPIAN MONARCHY DAYS GONE BY.SEE all of you here dont know about jamaica and port royal history...WE ARE THE SURVIVORS.WE MEAN GOOD TO ETHIOPIA AND GOD FEARERS...LOL..OR GOD TAFARIS!!..LOLL.if rasta is stone that the builders refuse..it will become head corner stone.rastas are now ordained clergy and fast and pray.who r you to deny a mans faith.RASTAFARI IIS A WAY OF LIFE.NOT RELIGION OR FAITH.DONT MIX IT.ethiopian worship exist from before abraham,but after pattern of NOAH.IT just enter into the hearts of man to glorify a THE LORD SO IF ITS NOT A GOD THING IT WILL SURELY FADE AWAY GAMALIEL SAID SO IF ORTHODOX RASTA IS NOT AUTHENTIC..LEAVE IT TO GOD.i see a special sentimental LOVING relationship,which is very intimate between rastafari and ethiopia,and its amazing.and some haters are jealous..but the union will perfect a people prepared for the lord which will bring the present unto THE LORD OF ZION..isiah ch 18....MORE LOVE AND MORE POWERS UNTO ALL WHO LOVE AND HATE I AND THE I ,IN YOU!!!HAILE BLESSED LOVE COVER THE EARTH AS WATER COVER THE SEA.NO OFFENCE AGAINST NO ONE,SO YR MY BLOOD N CHRIST,AND NO WEAPON FORMED AGAINST US SHALL PROSPER.LET JAH ARISE!!


Do Ethiopian Orthodox believe this, too?

FWIW, I don't think Christ was "european," either.  He was a Middle Eastern Jew.
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« Reply #126 on: November 10, 2011, 03:41:14 PM »

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* Nigerian Fashion Week Goes All Green - Popular fashion show in Nigeria supports sustainability, and environmental and climate awareness this year with designer's 'Going Green Collection.' Read More

 

* 'Munched' - Hit production by Kim Porter about a woman convicted of an unthinkable crime opened to a full house on first run at the Manhatten Theatre Source in New York.  Read More

       
 
THE RASTAFARIANS ARE THE BEST PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS ONE BY UNESCO AND THEREFOR MAKING THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE.WHAT YALL WANNA SUGGESTING DOING WITH THEM...PUTTING THEM IN DUMP TRUCKS AND HEAD FOR THE DUMP WITH FUEL N MATCHES AS JAMAICAN GOVERNMENTS USED TO DO BEFORE HAILESELASSIE SAW,AND INTERVENED AND SENT ABUNE YESEHAQ ,SINGLE HANHEDLY..?LISTEN LIVES ARE AT STEAK HERE AND YOU ALL CAN LEARN SOME THING ,JUST AS I LEARN FR HIWOT THAT THE FEAR OF GOD IS BEGINNING OF WISDOM.RAsta loves it because it mention their first geez or amharic word learnt...tafari....imagine chinese indentured labourers getting to embrace one word od mandarin chinese after going thru hell and now becoming independent n free.they gonna cherish that word....wont you too if in such a case.put yr self in rasta shoes and feel it wit yr eyes closed....and rasta will learn in future n dominate orthodoxy as abba yesehaq said.because rastafari is original orthodox theory ,resisting the colonial system and yoke of oppression ...especially against the tamper ing of the bible translation.the queen of england head of state of jamaica as few knows,made laws to imprison those elders in 1920 s to 1070s because they read apocrypha.these elders were members of fraternal orders like freemasons ets who were early elders in the movement to resist england oppressive politics against africans.rastafari started out as a black supremecist movement,but as foreigners and more conformist joined up ,spirituality was stressed.its under transition.and is very beautiful with contributions to art,literature,poetry,music and spiritua;ity,to make we a real comprehensive and cohisive,domicile people in the caribbean and the world.everything cncerning his majesty haile selassie is revered and our ppl dont even know egypt is africa...i mean our parents who do not see african importance because it was bred out of them.Through CHRISTOS civilizations are being transformed,not thru rich nations potential ,but through the commune lives of seekers of the lost sheep of israel.be our brothers keeper.how many of you would invite a rasta for dinner.?i visit greek orthodox church and was despised......in palm sunday...no introduction....no well wishing....no invitation for dinner,although i eat hearbs with a saltless diet.WE R THE SALT OF THE EARTH AS CHRISTOS CHILDREN.LET US HUMBLE OUR SELVES AND STOP PUT FILTH UPON EACH OTHERVIEWS..Get angry and sin not...I WISH ALL ON THIS FORUM NUFF PEACE AND LOVE IN THEIR LIVES.BLESS UP EVERYONE IN THE NAME OF J....JAHOVAH......A...AMMANUEL.....H.....THE HOLY SPIRIT...HOLY TRINITY BLESS ALL AS ONE FAMILY.
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« Reply #127 on: November 10, 2011, 03:53:34 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

giv thanks mi beloved bredrines who understand wat i man talking about.i will type in lower case as its a sin to use the machine in higher case for one i hav poor eyesight and two i am not expert typist ,but because his majesty and abba yesehaq inspired i to study education i type with one finger.not like you educated and pious ones who are experts who can cut n copy...and i hope am not denounced on yr forun because orthodoxy in yr eyes means to spell properly and use code of text preparation.

heartica big up my brotha, I tried to explain to Is here that it was rude for them to disregard the crucial substance of your post out of grammatical concerns, as that is not Orthodox, much of Orthodox have actually been illiterate!

Quote
,but here is the days when human bengs denied birthrights are called ,chosen,and precious in the eyes of their CREATOR.we been robbed of language ,culture n tradition an any christian who deny our identity cry must get a hearttransplant of LOVE.AL churches should give therapy and embrace rastas and console them because they recognise their plight of 500 yrs of rape,torture,and greed by western civilations which our prophet and national marcus garvey came in the spirit of john the baptist did and same way he cursed the emperor as john cursed christ.its educational and some learnt elder can giv the name of the parrallels of the incident..abuna yesehaq did explain it.this draws the drive to study our bibles again and learn about CHRISTOS,and more reality to our understanding is added for our salvation.

EXACTLY! God bless the soul and memory of our beloved Abune Yesehaq, who loved the Rastafari people out of sincerity, and was indeed a noble and caring father to we the Rastafari lost tribe of Ethiopia.  HIM intended to literally graft Rastafari folks into the Ethiopian Empire as a new tribal group, a new ethnic identity within the State having a territory of their own in Shashamene.  The Chuch was commissioned to indoctrinate Rastafari into the Faith and Culture, just as the Church has been sent to the South, East, and West of Ethiopia for the same purpose of converting non-Christian Ethiopia and bringing them into the fold of our Mother the Church.
Quote
.we need a big dialogue. leaders cannot deny that.a new vine is engrafted in the olive tree,its rasta orthodox...its all races of the earth,who was rejected and seeking identity.ABUNA YESEHAQ IS EXPERT IN THIS.HIS OWN PPL SELL HIM OUT.ONLY RASTAFARIANS FED HIM AND PAY HIS RENT.ETHIOPIAND DENIED HIM A SALARY.DO HIWOT EVER ASK ABBA IF HE WAS HUNGRY?I KNO IT.SHE IS ETHNIC TOO.I HOPE NOT.WE MUST STRIVE TO UNITE AGAINST satan OUR ENEMY ,AND STOP PUTTING CONDEMNATION ON EACH OTHER TO PROVE A POINT.SO WHO GONNA TEACH THESE BEAUTIFUL RASTAS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD?the true christians with tolerance n good will.study about a man before yu judge him.Habte was only exaulting a forgotten public holyday forgotten in ethiopia...thanks brother..

Amen Amen.  Where were all those careless Ethiopians when our fathers were in neglect? Rastafari have been crucial founding members of many Ethiopian parishes across the Western world, and we have always been piously involved with our clergy and Ethiopian expatriate families, because we in Rastafari were deeply experienced with the viciousness of oppression and victimization before the Derg showed up, and we helped Ethiopians and they helped us mutually as we both entered into this brave new world together, as brothers and sisters under One GOd.

Quote
if rasta is stone that the builders refuse..it will become head corner stone.rastas are now ordained clergy and fast and pray.who r you to deny a mans faith.RASTAFARI IIS A WAY OF LIFE.NOT RELIGION OR FAITH.DONT MIX IT.ethiopian worship exist from before abraham,but after pattern of NOAH.IT just enter into the hearts of man to glorify a THE LORD SO IF ITS NOT A GOD THING IT WILL SURELY FADE AWAY GAMALIEL SAID SO IF ORTHODOX RASTA IS NOT AUTHENTIC..LEAVE IT TO GOD.i see a special sentimental LOVING relationship,which is very intimate between rastafari and ethiopia,and its amazing.and some haters are jealous..




http://eotcarchdiocesecaribbeanandlatinamerica.org/trinidadandtobago/clergytrinidadtobago.html

Amen Amen! Many of the Rastafari community have become not only members of the EOTC, but indeed clergy as Deacons and Priests, just as Janhoy envisioned in specifically sending a Bishopric to the Caribbean in the first place.  There had been priests and a consecrated altar in Trinidad since as early as 1956, however a Bishop who could ordain other clergy and deacons was not sent until personal orders of HIM in 1970, and that Bishop was His Holiness Abune Yesehaq, the self-titled "Rasta Bishop" who loved our community so much, and we love his memory and legacy beyond words!

Lets pray that these careless Ethiopian haters who wrongfully abuse we Rastafari, when our Church and the majority of the Ethiopian community have so actively embraced us, that God transplant Love into their hearts as you suggested.  Let us pray that it be as Apostle Paul explained in Romans 11, that in being jealous these Ethiopians are provoked to action.  When they see Rastafari eating at the Bishop's table, Communing regularly, teaching their children in their schools, leading within the Ethiopian community, perhaps they will be sparked to jealousy to themselves pick up the slack, pick up the pace, and stop hatin and get active.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #128 on: November 10, 2011, 03:59:19 PM »

rastafari is original orthodox theory [. . .] i visit greek orthodox church and was despised......in palm sunday...no introduction....no well wishing....no invitation for dinner,although i eat hearbs with a saltless diet.

RLY? Can we go private now?

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« Reply #129 on: November 10, 2011, 04:02:04 PM »

rastafari is original orthodox theory [. . .] i visit greek orthodox church and was despised......in palm sunday...no introduction....no well wishing....no invitation for dinner,although i eat hearbs with a saltless diet.

RLY? Can we go private now?


Angry Why did you point out that line?  I totally overlooked that.

Still reeling over love being black. Didn't know it was a color.
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« Reply #130 on: November 10, 2011, 04:04:10 PM »

And really, HS and GMK, there is nothing crazypants about those posts? You are just going to keep saying "Sing it, my brother!" because he is one of your Rastafarian people?

Because there are like several things in that post that are absolutely incompatible with Orthodoxy, or Christianity in general.
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« Reply #131 on: November 10, 2011, 04:06:15 PM »

giv thanks mi beloved bredrines who understand wat i man talking about.i will type in lower case as its a sin to use the machine in higher case for one i hav poor eyesight and two i am not expert typist ,but because his majesty and abba yesehaq inspired i to study education i type with one finger.not like you educated and pious ones who are experts who can cut n copy...and i hope am not denounced on yr forun because orthodoxy in yr eyes means to spell properly and use code of text preparation.JAH LIVES AND ALL WEAK HEART MUST TREMBLE!!!..our only enemy is satan.yes you gonna tired to see we faces orthodox ppl.a new vine has been engrafted..OUR LORD THE DREADED CHRISTOS has done a new thing in these last days.gone are the days of rich empires embracing orthodoxy ,but here is the days when human bengs denied birthrights are called ,chosen,and precious in the eyes of their CREATOR.we been robbed of language ,culture n tradition an any christian who deny our identity cry must get a hearttransplant of LOVE.AL churches should give therapy and embrace rastas and console them because they recognise their plight of 500 yrs of rape,torture,and greed by western civilations which our prophet and national marcus garvey came in the spirit of john the baptist did and same way he cursed the emperor as john cursed christ.its educational and some learnt elder can giv the name of the parrallels of the incident..abuna yesehaq did explain it.this draws the drive to study our bibles again and learn about CHRISTOS,and more reality to our understanding is added for our salvation.am happy no woman can be priests so i can see them wrecking the church of CHRISTOS WITH BAD TEMPER.so where is the LOVE OF GOD.we treat each other as scribes and pharisees at times and avoid the weightier matter.LOVE FOR ALL MANKIND IS IT.ONE BLACK LOVE IS IT.love is like black to me ,because it can blot out wrongs.black is beautiful.i think cCHRIST AND ST MARY is black..not european.looking just like my dad.abuna yesehaq teach this too..because we were battered and bruised,robbed and peeled,to the shame of egypt and ethiopia our expectation,therefore we wetre carried off naked and barefeet,with our bottocks uncovered,both men n women n children t because of the shame of ethiopia...isiah chapter 20.....we need a big dialogue.
leaders cannot deny that.a new vine is engrafted in the olive tree,its rasta orthodox...its all races of the earth,who was rejected and seeking identity.ABUNA YESEHAQ IS EXPERT IN THIS.HIS OWN PPL SELL HIM OUT.ONLY RASTAFARIANS FED HIM AND PAY HIS RENT.ETHIOPIAND DENIED HIM A SALARY.DO HIWOT EVER ASK ABBA IF HE WAS HUNGRY?I KNO IT.SHE IS ETHNIC TOO.I HOPE NOT.WE MUST STRIVE TO UNITE AGAINST satan OUR ENEMY ,AND STOP PUTTING CONDEMNATION ON EACH OTHER TO PROVE A POINT.SO WHO GONNA TEACH THESE BEAUTIFUL RASTAS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD?the true christians with tolerance n good will.study about a man before yu judge him.Habte was only exaulting a forgotten public holyday forgotten in ethiopia...thanks brother..is haile selassie really in that tomb?because we heard its a mock funeral abuna paulos that jackal planned to cover his illegal selection.after 17 yrs....hmmmm..it looks fishy...yu can fool some ppl sometimes,but yu cannot fool all the people all the while..The monarchy carried christianity to pagan ethiopians.it must be restored.it makes us proud in the diaspora because we had nothing,so it was beginning of our integrity to show soladarity to christian monarchy as english monarchy put is in jail for mentioning ETHIOPIAN MONARCHY DAYS GONE BY.SEE all of you here dont know about jamaica and port royal history...WE ARE THE SURVIVORS.WE MEAN GOOD TO ETHIOPIA AND GOD FEARERS...LOL..OR GOD TAFARIS!!..LOLL.if rasta is stone that the builders refuse..it will become head corner stone.rastas are now ordained clergy and fast and pray.who r you to deny a mans faith.RASTAFARI IIS A WAY OF LIFE.NOT RELIGION OR FAITH.DONT MIX IT.ethiopian worship exist from before abraham,but after pattern of NOAH.IT just enter into the hearts of man to glorify a THE LORD SO IF ITS NOT A GOD THING IT WILL SURELY FADE AWAY GAMALIEL SAID SO IF ORTHODOX RASTA IS NOT AUTHENTIC..LEAVE IT TO GOD.i see a special sentimental LOVING relationship,which is very intimate between rastafari and ethiopia,and its amazing.and some haters are jealous..but the union will perfect a people prepared for the lord which will bring the present unto THE LORD OF ZION..isiah ch 18....MORE LOVE AND MORE POWERS UNTO ALL WHO LOVE AND HATE I AND THE I ,IN YOU!!!HAILE BLESSED LOVE COVER THE EARTH AS WATER COVER THE SEA.NO OFFENCE AGAINST NO ONE,SO YR MY BLOOD N CHRIST,AND NO WEAPON FORMED AGAINST US SHALL PROSPER.LET JAH ARISE!!


« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 04:06:53 PM by NicholasMyra » Logged

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« Reply #132 on: November 10, 2011, 04:07:00 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

giv thanks mi beloved bredrines who understand wat i man talking about.i will type in lower case as its a sin to use the machine in higher case for one i hav poor eyesight and two i am not expert typist ,but because his majesty and abba yesehaq inspired i to study education i type with one finger.not like you educated and pious ones who are experts who can cut n copy...and i hope am not denounced on yr forun because orthodoxy in yr eyes means to spell properly and use code of text preparation.

heartica big up my brotha, I tried to explain to Is here that it was rude for them to disregard the crucial substance of your post out of grammatical concerns, as that is not Orthodox, much of Orthodox have actually been illiterate!

Quote
,but here is the days when human bengs denied birthrights are called ,chosen,and precious in the eyes of their CREATOR.we been robbed of language ,culture n tradition an any christian who deny our identity cry must get a hearttransplant of LOVE.AL churches should give therapy and embrace rastas and console them because they recognise their plight of 500 yrs of rape,torture,and greed by western civilations which our prophet and national marcus garvey came in the spirit of john the baptist did and same way he cursed the emperor as john cursed christ.its educational and some learnt elder can giv the name of the parrallels of the incident..abuna yesehaq did explain it.this draws the drive to study our bibles again and learn about CHRISTOS,and more reality to our understanding is added for our salvation.

EXACTLY! God bless the soul and memory of our beloved Abune Yesehaq, who loved the Rastafari people out of sincerity, and was indeed a noble and caring father to we the Rastafari lost tribe of Ethiopia.  HIM intended to literally graft Rastafari folks into the Ethiopian Empire as a new tribal group, a new ethnic identity within the State having a territory of their own in Shashamene.  The Chuch was commissioned to indoctrinate Rastafari into the Faith and Culture, just as the Church has been sent to the South, East, and West of Ethiopia for the same purpose of converting non-Christian Ethiopia and bringing them into the fold of our Mother the Church.
Quote
.we need a big dialogue. leaders cannot deny that.a new vine is engrafted in the olive tree,its rasta orthodox...its all races of the earth,who was rejected and seeking identity.ABUNA YESEHAQ IS EXPERT IN THIS.HIS OWN PPL SELL HIM OUT.ONLY RASTAFARIANS FED HIM AND PAY HIS RENT.ETHIOPIAND DENIED HIM A SALARY.DO HIWOT EVER ASK ABBA IF HE WAS HUNGRY?I KNO IT.SHE IS ETHNIC TOO.I HOPE NOT.WE MUST STRIVE TO UNITE AGAINST satan OUR ENEMY ,AND STOP PUTTING CONDEMNATION ON EACH OTHER TO PROVE A POINT.SO WHO GONNA TEACH THESE BEAUTIFUL RASTAS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD?the true christians with tolerance n good will.study about a man before yu judge him.Habte was only exaulting a forgotten public holyday forgotten in ethiopia...thanks brother..

Amen Amen.  Where were all those careless Ethiopians when our fathers were in neglect? Rastafari have been crucial founding members of many Ethiopian parishes across the Western world, and we have always been piously involved with our clergy and Ethiopian expatriate families, because we in Rastafari were deeply experienced with the viciousness of oppression and victimization before the Derg showed up, and we helped Ethiopians and they helped us mutually as we both entered into this brave new world together, as brothers and sisters under One GOd.

Quote
if rasta is stone that the builders refuse..it will become head corner stone.rastas are now ordained clergy and fast and pray.who r you to deny a mans faith.RASTAFARI IIS A WAY OF LIFE.NOT RELIGION OR FAITH.DONT MIX IT.ethiopian worship exist from before abraham,but after pattern of NOAH.IT just enter into the hearts of man to glorify a THE LORD SO IF ITS NOT A GOD THING IT WILL SURELY FADE AWAY GAMALIEL SAID SO IF ORTHODOX RASTA IS NOT AUTHENTIC..LEAVE IT TO GOD.i see a special sentimental LOVING relationship,which is very intimate between rastafari and ethiopia,and its amazing.and some haters are jealous..




http://eotcarchdiocesecaribbeanandlatinamerica.org/trinidadandtobago/clergytrinidadtobago.html

Amen Amen! Many of the Rastafari community have become not only members of the EOTC, but indeed clergy as Deacons and Priests, just as Janhoy envisioned in specifically sending a Bishopric to the Caribbean in the first place.  There had been priests and a consecrated altar in Trinidad since as early as 1956, however a Bishop who could ordain other clergy and deacons was not sent until personal orders of HIM in 1970, and that Bishop was His Holiness Abune Yesehaq, the self-titled "Rasta Bishop" who loved our community so much, and we love his memory and legacy beyond words!

Lets pray that these careless Ethiopian haters who wrongfully abuse we Rastafari, when our Church and the majority of the Ethiopian community have so actively embraced us, that God transplant Love into their hearts as you suggested.  Let us pray that it be as Apostle Paul explained in Romans 11, that in being jealous these Ethiopians are provoked to action.  When they see Rastafari eating at the Bishop's table, Communing regularly, teaching their children in their schools, leading within the Ethiopian community, perhaps they will be sparked to jealousy to themselves pick up the slack, pick up the pace, and stop hatin and get active.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

The Church of Scientology is more coherent sociological group even if you include folks who only read Dianetics than the so-called "Rastafarian Community".

Sorry Habte, some of us have actually lived in the real world around and "among" Rastas. And you can always say that everyone else's experiences are outliers except yours and Gebre's, but really that dog don't hunt.

You are in a situation in which you literally beg the question. You get to trumpet what you define "Rastafarianism" and everything outside it is some misunderstanding or perversion, etc.

Put the trumpet down. You yell your message so loud no one can hear it except the hand clappers already stepping to your song.

 
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« Reply #133 on: November 10, 2011, 04:08:32 PM »

if rasta is stone that the builders refuse..it will become head corner stone.
I wouldn't hold my breath.
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« Reply #134 on: November 10, 2011, 04:09:43 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

rastafari is original orthodox theory [. . .] i visit greek orthodox church and was despised......in palm sunday...no introduction....no well wishing....no invitation for dinner,although i eat hearbs with a saltless diet.

RLY? Can we go private now?


Angry Why did you point out that line?  I totally overlooked that.

Still reeling over love being black. Didn't know it was a color.

Folks are arguing with me about their misinterpretations about my discussing some Serbian controversies, and yet, black folks can't have their own sense of pride, nationalism, and cultural integrity? Talk about a double-standard!

In Rastafari black is beautiful, period.  If folks are offended with that statement, they need to look in the mirror and reflect and why that threatens them in anyway, nobody said here "ONLY black is beautiful" but rather stated the obvious fact that indeed, "black is beautiful" which is self-explanatory to those who know this Smiley

Rastafari is not saying folks have to be black to be Christian, Rastafari is not saying Orthodox is a racial things, Rastafari is saying that black folks have been been disregarded, disrespected, and dismissed for centuries, and through Rastafari and the Orthodox a new sense of pride, self-actualization, and cultural integrity has bee rejunivated in the black communities.  Folks should cherish this growth, not be threatened by it.  Its not a battle or a struggle, its not black against the world, but it has been seeming to be the world against black, and that is why blackness must be continually reaffirmed in the positive light of racial pride.  Its not racism, its self-esteem.   This is another gift of the Rastafari people to Ethiopia, as honestly many Ethiopians to this day don't realize they are black, and HIM was one of the first Ethiopian Emperors to turn Westward towards Black Africa away from the traditional Abyssinian ties with the Semitic East.  HIM knew the rest of the world though of Ethiopians as being black, HIM saw it was time for Ethiopians to embrace their blackness as well, hence HIM pan-African and black nationalist outreach, both across Africa and the Caribbean.


stay blessed,
habte selassie

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #135 on: November 10, 2011, 04:11:21 PM »

rastafari is original orthodox theory [. . .] i visit greek orthodox church and was despised......in palm sunday...no introduction....no well wishing....no invitation for dinner,although i eat hearbs with a saltless diet.

RLY? Can we go private now?


Angry Why did you point out that line?  I totally overlooked that.

Still reeling over love being black. Didn't know it was a color.

It is a Rastafarianism. Whether it is racist is or not is something people with degrees in multikulti studies discuss.

It is used by some as a metaphor as you can see what was meant in the OP. Some take it more literally in terms of race.

The Rastas have come up with some weird ways of expressing stuff in an ideolect based on folk-etymology and the like.

I can hear that "love is black" and understand what it means from some Rastas.

Some Rastas, let's go private and get real.
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« Reply #136 on: November 10, 2011, 04:12:53 PM »

Lol, I'm not threatened by black pride in the least.

I take issue with any uber-nationalistic creed that seems to imply some sort of superiority, and you can look through my post history where I call out Americans who think they are the living in THE Holy Land, people who talk about white pride.

Did you miss the line about Jesus or St. Mary being black, whatever that means? Or did you just read what you wanted to agree with in his post?
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« Reply #137 on: November 10, 2011, 04:14:03 PM »

Folks are arguing with me about their misinterpretations about my discussing some Serbian controversies, and yet, black folks can't have their own sense of pride, nationalism, and cultural integrity?
"Black folks" do not all come from one nation, Habte. Africa is a continent.

Selam
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« Reply #138 on: November 10, 2011, 04:14:47 PM »

Folks are arguing with me about their misinterpretations about my discussing some Serbian controversies, and yet, black folks can't have their own sense of pride, nationalism, and cultural integrity? Talk about a double-standard!

In Rastafari black is beautiful, period.  If folks are offended with that statement, they need to look in the mirror and reflect and why that threatens them in anyway, nobody said here "ONLY black is beautiful" but rather stated the obvious fact that indeed, "black is beautiful" which is self-explanatory to those who know this Smiley

Overstand brother, I don't need educated. See my post above. But you are paint with a broad brush something that ain't as uniform as you make it.

Been around this stuff for 22 years? To greater and lesser degrees and in various places.

I don't need the patronizing lecture.
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« Reply #139 on: November 10, 2011, 04:16:57 PM »

Folks are arguing with me about their misinterpretations about my discussing some Serbian controversies, and yet, black folks can't have their own sense of pride, nationalism, and cultural integrity?
"Black folks" do not all come from one nation, Habte. Africa is a continent.

Selam

Actually Habte, I ain't down FWIW with any racial / geo-political pride. I find it anti-Christian, but that is another thread.

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« Reply #140 on: November 10, 2011, 04:20:21 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

giv thanks mi beloved bredrines who understand wat i man talking about.i will type in lower case as its a sin to use the machine in higher case for one i hav poor eyesight and two i am not expert typist ,but because his majesty and abba yesehaq inspired i to study education i type with one finger.not like you educated and pious ones who are experts who can cut n copy...and i hope am not denounced on yr forun because orthodoxy in yr eyes means to spell properly and use code of text preparation.

heartica big up my brotha, I tried to explain to Is here that it was rude for them to disregard the crucial substance of your post out of grammatical concerns, as that is not Orthodox, much of Orthodox have actually been illiterate!

You keep harping on this.  The simple fact remains, dear brother, is that ras zacka's posts were near incomprehensible.  You made it comprehensible by communicating clearly.  Again, the onus is on the communicator to make himself clear.  Who's in the wrong, the person speaking French to an English-only speaker when the former can clearly speak English or in the latter because he can't understand?  I have no doubt that ras zacka can speak and write in plain English, but he chooses to affect a patois in order to make himself appear more "authentic".  It's a load of crap.  We're not talking about basic grammar mistakes, we're talking about someone deliberately obfuscating their words via grammar choices.  

Ras Zacka's posts make Stashko's look like the most erudite English.  If you're going to explain something on an English language site and you can write in English, do it.  Otherwise your credibility and the credibility of whatever you're trying to say goes out the window because you can't be bothered to show some respect for the people you're talking AT.

Yes, talking AT.  Not TO and definitely not WITH.  Both of you need to grow the eff up if you want to defend Rastafarianism on here because you all look like children throwing a temper tantrum.
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« Reply #141 on: November 10, 2011, 04:26:31 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

giv thanks mi beloved bredrines who understand wat i man talking about.i will type in lower case as its a sin to use the machine in higher case for one i hav poor eyesight and two i am not expert typist ,but because his majesty and abba yesehaq inspired i to study education i type with one finger.not like you educated and pious ones who are experts who can cut n copy...and i hope am not denounced on yr forun because orthodoxy in yr eyes means to spell properly and use code of text preparation.

heartica big up my brotha, I tried to explain to Is here that it was rude for them to disregard the crucial substance of your post out of grammatical concerns, as that is not Orthodox, much of Orthodox have actually been illiterate!

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,but here is the days when human bengs denied birthrights are called ,chosen,and precious in the eyes of their CREATOR.we been robbed of language ,culture n tradition an any christian who deny our identity cry must get a hearttransplant of LOVE.AL churches should give therapy and embrace rastas and console them because they recognise their plight of 500 yrs of rape,torture,and greed by western civilations which our prophet and national marcus garvey came in the spirit of john the baptist did and same way he cursed the emperor as john cursed christ.its educational and some learnt elder can giv the name of the parrallels of the incident..abuna yesehaq did explain it.this draws the drive to study our bibles again and learn about CHRISTOS,and more reality to our understanding is added for our salvation.

EXACTLY! God bless the soul and memory of our beloved Abune Yesehaq, who loved the Rastafari people out of sincerity, and was indeed a noble and caring father to we the Rastafari lost tribe of Ethiopia.  HIM intended to literally graft Rastafari folks into the Ethiopian Empire as a new tribal group, a new ethnic identity within the State having a territory of their own in Shashamene.  The Chuch was commissioned to indoctrinate Rastafari into the Faith and Culture, just as the Church has been sent to the South, East, and West of Ethiopia for the same purpose of converting non-Christian Ethiopia and bringing them into the fold of our Mother the Church.
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.we need a big dialogue. leaders cannot deny that.a new vine is engrafted in the olive tree,its rasta orthodox...its all races of the earth,who was rejected and seeking identity.ABUNA YESEHAQ IS EXPERT IN THIS.HIS OWN PPL SELL HIM OUT.ONLY RASTAFARIANS FED HIM AND PAY HIS RENT.ETHIOPIAND DENIED HIM A SALARY.DO HIWOT EVER ASK ABBA IF HE WAS HUNGRY?I KNO IT.SHE IS ETHNIC TOO.I HOPE NOT.WE MUST STRIVE TO UNITE AGAINST satan OUR ENEMY ,AND STOP PUTTING CONDEMNATION ON EACH OTHER TO PROVE A POINT.SO WHO GONNA TEACH THESE BEAUTIFUL RASTAS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD?the true christians with tolerance n good will.study about a man before yu judge him.Habte was only exaulting a forgotten public holyday forgotten in ethiopia...thanks brother..

Amen Amen.  Where were all those careless Ethiopians when our fathers were in neglect? Rastafari have been crucial founding members of many Ethiopian parishes across the Western world, and we have always been piously involved with our clergy and Ethiopian expatriate families, because we in Rastafari were deeply experienced with the viciousness of oppression and victimization before the Derg showed up, and we helped Ethiopians and they helped us mutually as we both entered into this brave new world together, as brothers and sisters under One GOd.

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if rasta is stone that the builders refuse..it will become head corner stone.rastas are now ordained clergy and fast and pray.who r you to deny a mans faith.RASTAFARI IIS A WAY OF LIFE.NOT RELIGION OR FAITH.DONT MIX IT.ethiopian worship exist from before abraham,but after pattern of NOAH.IT just enter into the hearts of man to glorify a THE LORD SO IF ITS NOT A GOD THING IT WILL SURELY FADE AWAY GAMALIEL SAID SO IF ORTHODOX RASTA IS NOT AUTHENTIC..LEAVE IT TO GOD.i see a special sentimental LOVING relationship,which is very intimate between rastafari and ethiopia,and its amazing.and some haters are jealous..




http://eotcarchdiocesecaribbeanandlatinamerica.org/trinidadandtobago/clergytrinidadtobago.html

Amen Amen! Many of the Rastafari community have become not only members of the EOTC, but indeed clergy as Deacons and Priests, just as Janhoy envisioned in specifically sending a Bishopric to the Caribbean in the first place.  There had been priests and a consecrated altar in Trinidad since as early as 1956, however a Bishop who could ordain other clergy and deacons was not sent until personal orders of HIM in 1970, and that Bishop was His Holiness Abune Yesehaq, the self-titled "Rasta Bishop" who loved our community so much, and we love his memory and legacy beyond words!

Lets pray that these careless Ethiopian haters who wrongfully abuse we Rastafari, when our Church and the majority of the Ethiopian community have so actively embraced us, that God transplant Love into their hearts as you suggested.  Let us pray that it be as Apostle Paul explained in Romans 11, that in being jealous these Ethiopians are provoked to action.  When they see Rastafari eating at the Bishop's table, Communing regularly, teaching their children in their schools, leading within the Ethiopian community, perhaps they will be sparked to jealousy to themselves pick up the slack, pick up the pace, and stop hatin and get active.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

The Church of Scientology is more coherent sociological group even if you include folks who only read Dianetics than the so-called "Rastafarian Community".

Sorry Habte, some of us have actually lived in the real world around and "among" Rastas. And you can always say that everyone else's experiences are outliers except yours and Gebre's, but really that dog don't hunt.

You are in a situation in which you literally beg the question. You get to trumpet what you define "Rastafarianism" and everything outside it is some misunderstanding or perversion, etc.

Put the trumpet down. You yell your message so loud no one can hear it except the hand clappers already stepping to your song.

 

I think it is literally naive of you to suppose that I or GMK are not actual Rastafari brothers who fellowship with actual Rastafari people. Do you think we are reading this stuff in books? I have also already conceded that many, in fact, a majority, do worship the Emperor, but it is important not to conclude that ALL Rastafari believe this, or that all the Rastafari within Orthodox believe this.  GMK and I are not preaching to our choir, we are trying to clearly enlighten y'all on certain aspects of Rastafari community which clearly y'all are not familiar with or have not experienced evidenced by the near blanket condemnations expressed here on the forum. 

I am not trumpeting what "I" define as Rastafari, I am telling you word for word what the Elders have taught me, by direct discussion and the laying of hands.  I didn't make this stuff up, this is not my unique or individual or personal interpretation, this is what I was taught, this is what I believe, this is what others teach, this is what others believe, and folks like GMK and I fellowship with these,and we have simply been trying to explain ourselves.  I am offended that after a year of posting on this forum, and after a week worth of discussion and 3 pages of responses, that my so-called friends here insist on straw-man misconceptions about what exactly me and GMK have very clearly been saying.  Why don't folks actually try LISTENING to us, rather then simply dismissing us because our testimony doesn't exactly agree with other ignorant or misplaced preconceived notions.  We are insiders, why treat us as if we were outsiders? We are Orthodox why brow beat us as if we were not? We are also Rastafari, why try and tell us who we are and are not, simply because y'all outsiders to Rastafari think you know what its about?

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #142 on: November 10, 2011, 04:34:46 PM »

Did you miss the line about Jesus or St. Mary being black, whatever that means? Or did you just read what you wanted to agree with in his post?

This ain't even on my radar. I get what they are saying. It comes off as odd those who don't under . . . er overstand Rasta.

However there is a much more to "Rastafarianism" (sorry for the ISM, Rastas) than what is being talked about here.

There was a singular argument at first.

Obviously Hiwot PWNd them.

This Rasta stuff is much more nebulous.

Check out Gebre's youtube channel, even he would have to agree. He did after all admit here Rastas have threatened his life.

Well, I know folks who were literally nearly beaten to death by Rastas for being white. That's it. Period.

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« Reply #143 on: November 10, 2011, 04:36:45 PM »

Did you miss the line about Jesus or St. Mary being black, whatever that means? Or did you just read what you wanted to agree with in his post?

This ain't even on my radar. I get what they are saying. It comes off as odd those who don't under . . . er overstand Rasta.
Even if I have the knowledge where they are coming from, if not the personal experience, I can still take issue with it and others who are hypocritical in denouncing in others what they let slip by themselves, long, drawn out explanations notwithstanding.
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« Reply #144 on: November 10, 2011, 04:48:39 PM »

UNTIL BIGOTRY AND PREJUDICES AND PARTIALITY,WILL BE COVERED BY TOLERANCE AND GOOD WILL,THERE WILL BE NO PEASE...Haile Selassie 1.TO ALL DIRTY MOUTH ORTHODOX USING GUILE INDIRECTLY ON THIS FORUM...GWAAN,GO ON AND TAKE A FRESH.....USE GASOLINE TO WASH OUT YR MOUTHS AND HEARTS AND REPLACE IT WITH LOVE,TOLERANCE,PEACE,IMPARTIALITY,POLITAICAL DENOUNCEMENT, AND THE THE LOVE AND SPIRIT OF YESUS KRESTOS.EVEN OUR LORD WAS ACCUSED BY MORTAL SINFUL MAN AND INSULTED AS SOME OF YOU R VERY INSULTIVE ON THIS FORUM AND FALL SHORT OF THE KINGDOM OG HEAVEN WITH YOUR HATRED TODAY...AND I PERSONALLY DONT WANT TO ASSOCIATE WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT IN THE HOLY SPIRIT OF UNITY AND LOVE AND TO HELP EACH OTHER.I HATE WESTERN CIVILIZATION PRANKS,BAD WORDS AND NORM.THEY REMIND ME OF PEOPLE WHO HARM MY GOD AND SAVIOUR.I KNOW 90 PERCENT ON HERE NEVER HAVE TRUE LOVE BUT R SAME RACIST PPL WHO MAKE PPL LIVES MISERABLE DAILY.SO I WARN YOU ALL ..AND YOU KNOW YRSELVES NOT TO IMPUTE GUILE HERE,BECAUSE CHRIST IS WATCHING.HE IS THE UNSEEN GUEST AT EVERY TABLE...SHOW ME YR COMPANY AND I CAN TELL YOU WHO YOU ARE DIRTY MOUTH GUY.CHILDREN MUST NOT SEE YR ARROGANCE...IT REMINDS ME OF THE SLAVE WHIP WHICH BRUTALIZED MY VERY SOUL IN THE LOINS OF OUR FOREFATHERS.MORE LOVE UNCONDITIONAL TO ALL ON THIS FORUM...GOOD AND BAD..LIVE UP..THIS IS RASTAFARI TALKING TO YOU!!
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« Reply #145 on: November 10, 2011, 04:56:46 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I think it is literally naive of you to suppose that I or GMK are not actual Rastafari brothers who fellowship with actual Rastafari people. Do you think we are reading this stuff in books? I have also already conceded that many, in fact, a majority, do worship the Emperor, but it is important not to conclude that ALL Rastafari believe this, or that all the Rastafari within Orthodox believe this.  GMK and I are not preaching to our choir, we are trying to clearly enlighten y'all on certain aspects of Rastafari community which clearly y'all are not familiar with or have not experienced evidenced by the near blanket condemnations expressed here on the forum.  

I am not trumpeting what "I" define as Rastafari, I am telling you word for word what the Elders have taught me, by direct discussion and the laying of hands.  I didn't make this stuff up, this is not my unique or individual or personal interpretation, this is what I was taught, this is what I believe, this is what others teach, this is what others believe, and folks like GMK and I fellowship with these,and we have simply been trying to explain ourselves.  I am offended that after a year of posting on this forum, and after a week worth of discussion and 3 pages of responses, that my so-called friends here insist on straw-man misconceptions about what exactly me and GMK have very clearly been saying.  Why don't folks actually try LISTENING to us, rather then simply dismissing us because our testimony doesn't exactly agree with other ignorant or misplaced preconceived notions.  We are insiders, why treat us as if we were outsiders? We are Orthodox why brow beat us as if we were not? We are also Rastafari, why try and tell us who we are and are not, simply because y'all outsiders to Rastafari think you know what its about?

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Where did I say you weren't?

I was saying you ain't preaching just to some liberal group who is willing to roll over and agree with your rhetoric regarding "Rastas". I am someone who has lived around and among it.

Whatever group you and Gebre want to join and act out with is up to you. It would be ridiculous for me to deny either one of you don't. You obviously are up in it and Gebre has youtube vids all about his experience.

You both obviously are in touch with Rastafarianism. I never said otherwise.

Please point out where I did.

I don't care where you got your definition from, "elders" or otherwise. The definition you are using is what IS Rastafarianism for you. And everyone else is wrong. I've seen many variations of "Rastafarianism". If you would like, I can start typing in my best attempt to mimic the ideolect often used.

If you say you are part of Rastafarianism, you are. It is really that simple. It don't require much after all. It is about as coherent as the Vampyre culture.

By a t-shirt, dread your hair (I know "real" Rastas know this ain't necessary) get a CD, and some pot and you are in. Of course this ain't "real" Rastafarianism, but what is?

The point here is that your understanding of Rastafarianism ain't the whole story, not even close.

I dunno your ethnic background, latino? But Gebre is pretty darn white and I've seen Rastas that would beat him down running that game around them.

And he has said as much.

Thankfully, where I am at now, that fad had passed for the most part. Rastafarianism that is.

But back in the day, if I had to blindly choose to be in a room of Rastas, FoI, or 5%ers. The Rastas would have been the last I would have chosen.





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