OrthodoxChristianity.net
April 23, 2014, 10:39:41 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: The Rules page has been updated.  Please familiarize yourself with its contents!
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Metropolitan Jonah  (Read 4412 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Orual
Orthodoxy = 7, not 3
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Sunday Morning Costume Parade
Posts: 883


I'm just here for the food.


« Reply #45 on: November 04, 2011, 02:57:49 PM »

Maybe they have.  If they have, then there's even more reason to now air your dirty laundry in front of everyone.  handle it like adults & move on.  The church no longer does public confessions.  I just think it's very unprofessional. 

I think Metropolitan Jonah was just acknowledging what everyone already knew through word-of-mouth.  He did the same thing at the last AAC.  It brings the conversation into the open and deprives the rumor-mongers of their power.
Logged

He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

- C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces
f.k.a. Matron.a
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,063


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #46 on: November 04, 2011, 04:48:25 PM »

While that is true, I just think there's a better way to do it.  Perhaps this is all related to what another poster said about his inexperience?  (even he himself mentioned it several times).  Anyway, i'm not here to nit-pick.  Just thinking out loud. 
Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
SubdeaconDavid
"...the spread of the light of Orthodoxy among the peoples of all the lands where our Church exists continues as an inseparable part of our mission": Metropolitan Hilarion, First Hierarch of ROCOR
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Russian Orthodox Church Abroad (ROCOR)
Posts: 504


Помилуй мя Боже, по велицей милости Твоей


WWW
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2011, 12:16:56 AM »

The more I read from the folks that dont like him, the better I do Smiley
--+
PP
  HB Metropolitan Jonah's approach to the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR is about rapproachment and relationship and has mooted closer fraternal ties with the Russian Church as autonomous, rather than autocephalous,
Moscow 'interferes' at a Pan Orthodox level?  The Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR are a worldwide Church, with parishes, monasteries and missions in most of the countries of the planet.  She has autocephalous Churches in the Czeck and Slovak nations and Poland.  She has the missionary presence of ROCOR in Korea, Indonesia, and most Western countries.  She has an autonomous Chinese Church rebuilding. There are Russian churches and missions and monasteries in Thailand and Cambodia.  The Russian Church since medieval times has used whatever local language is required liturgically and for pastoral work.  The Russian Church has a substantial presence in Palestine and the Holy Land.  There is even a temple in Antarctica.  St. John of Shanghai, San Francisco and western Europe in an address to the Dioces\an Sobor of 1960 in Geneva stated:
Quote
The borders of the Russian Church did not at all used to coincide with the borders of the Russian State. Long ago the Russian Church already existed in America and that part of Her was an inseparable part of the Russian Church. The Russian Church cared not only for Russian people or subjects of the Russian State: Orthodox of various nationalities, various countries and states, belonged to her. One of the vicar-bishops in North America was a Syrian who had pastoral oversight of the Syrians. In general, in America right up until the end of the First World War, the Russian Church cared for all Orthodox. All the bishops belonged to the Russian Church. The Russian Church also cared for the Assyrians, and at the end of the last century there was a special Syro-Chaldean bishop in Iran who also belonged to the Russian Church.
The situation in Western Europe was the same.
Y
Logged

Visit my blog@  http://orthodoxtasmania.blogspot.com

To the Russians abroad it has been granted to shine in the whole world  the light of Orthodoxy, so that other peoples, seeing their good deeds, might glorify our Father in Heaven, and thus obtain salvation
S John of Shanghai & San Francisco
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Online Online

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 35,626



« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2011, 12:39:08 AM »

The more I read from the folks that dont like him, the better I do Smiley
--+
PP
 HB Metropolitan Jonah's approach to the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR is about rapproachment and relationship and has mooted closer fraternal ties with the Russian Church as autonomous, rather than autocephalous,

Moscow 'interferes' at a Pan Orthodox level?  The Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR are a worldwide Church, with parishes, monasteries and missions in most of the countries of the planet.
So does the EP and Antioch.

She has autocephalous Churches in the Czeck and Slovak nations and Poland.
If they are autocephalous, she does not have them.

She has the missionary presence of ROCOR in Korea, Indonesia, and most Western countries.  She has an autonomous Chinese Church rebuilding. There are Russian churches and missions and monasteries in Thailand and Cambodia.  The Russian Church since medieval times has used whatever local language is required liturgically and for pastoral work.
Not entirely true.  For instance, the Russification campaigns.

The Russian Church has a substantial presence in Palestine and the Holy Land.  There is even a temple in Antarctica.  St. John of Shanghai, San Francisco and western Europe in an address to the Dioces\an Sobor of 1960 in Geneva stated:
Quote
The borders of the Russian Church did not at all used to coincide with the borders of the Russian State.
Not sure if that means anything for a world empire in the age of imperialism.

Long ago the Russian Church already existed in America and that part of Her was an inseparable part of the Russian Church.
She is now seperate.

The Russian Church cared not only for Russian people or subjects of the Russian State: Orthodox of various nationalities, various countries and states, belonged to her. One of the vicar-bishops in North America was a Syrian who had pastoral oversight of the Syrians. In general, in America right up until the end of the First World War, the Russian Church cared for all Orthodox. All the bishops belonged to the Russian Church.
That was true.  It is not now.

The Russian Church also cared for the Assyrians, and at the end of the last century there was a special Syro-Chaldean bishop in Iran who also belonged to the Russian Church.
He ended up in Chicago.

The situation in Western Europe was the same.
It is still the same.

Y
?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 12:40:48 AM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
IreneOlinyk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox (EP)
Posts: 203


« Reply #49 on: November 05, 2011, 10:05:31 AM »

I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect.I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Does anyone have statistics handy?  I read on another Forum that the Greeks (GOA) outnumber the 4 largest jurisdictions all together.
Logged
Jetavan
Most Humble Servant of Pan-Vespuccian and Holocenic Hominids
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christic
Jurisdiction: Dixie
Posts: 6,079


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #50 on: November 05, 2011, 10:22:30 AM »

I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect.I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Does anyone have statistics handy?  I read on another Forum that the Greeks (GOA) outnumber the 4 largest jurisdictions all together.
Don't know how accurate, but here is something.
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
podkarpatska
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 7,582


SS Cyril and Methodius Church, Mercer, PA


WWW
« Reply #51 on: November 05, 2011, 10:35:58 AM »

I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect.I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Does anyone have statistics handy?  I read on another Forum that the Greeks (GOA) outnumber the 4 largest jurisdictions all together.
Don't know how accurate, but here is something.

I think that those statistics are fairly accurate and reflect the 'reality on the ground'.

Frankly, I fail to see the distinction between 'controlling' the Orthodox and 'having a controlling interest.'

For those of us long timers NOT of the OCA, we have endured these claims for going on some forty years now and yet today little has changed.

Rather than worrying about 'control', we should be focusing our attention of issues we can directly impact, such as the strength and role of our local parishes and their interaction with other local Orthodox and their home communities.

Logged
Opus118
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Online Online

Posts: 1,308


Katerina, my sister, dear beyond measure


« Reply #52 on: November 05, 2011, 11:59:48 AM »

I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect.I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Does anyone have statistics handy?  I read on another Forum that the Greeks (GOA) outnumber the 4 largest jurisdictions all together.
Don't know how accurate, but here is something.

The 2010 numbers are here:
http://www.hartfordinstitute.org/research/2010-USOrthodox-Census.pdf
Logged
ICXCNIKA
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Recovering Orthodox though spiritually wounded
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 576



« Reply #53 on: November 05, 2011, 12:11:44 PM »

I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect.I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Does anyone have statistics handy?  I read on another Forum that the Greeks (GOA) outnumber the 4 largest jurisdictions all together.
Don't know how accurate, but here is something.

I think that those statistics are fairly accurate and reflect the 'reality on the ground'.

Frankly, I fail to see the distinction between 'controlling' the Orthodox and 'having a controlling interest.'

For those of us long timers NOT of the OCA, we have endured these claims for going on some forty years now and yet today little has changed.

Rather than worrying about 'control', we should be focusing our attention of issues we can directly impact, such as the strength and role of our local parishes and their interaction with other local Orthodox and their home communities.



Dear Podkarpatska,

The original poster used a poor choice of words as did you when you said "we have endured these claims" I am sorry but how long have we had to endure the Phanar's claims? ( I
know I am doing the same thing but it is to make my point clear). You are usually a cool headed poster so I ask that you consider my post seriously. The OCA has no intention of forcing itself on any other jurisdiction nor does its Tomos allow for such a thing. Nor will we be usurped by others. When a united autocephalous Church in North America made up up of all those Jurisdictions now present or present in the future is possible the OCA will gladly disappear.
Logged
orthonorm
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Posts: 16,167



« Reply #54 on: November 05, 2011, 12:16:28 PM »

I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect.I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Does anyone have statistics handy?  I read on another Forum that the Greeks (GOA) outnumber the 4 largest jurisdictions all together.
Don't know how accurate, but here is something.

The 2010 numbers are here:
http://www.hartfordinstitute.org/research/2010-USOrthodox-Census.pdf


This:

Quote
In terms of number of parishes, however, Orthodox Church in America has more local congregations than GOA does: 551 and 525 respectively.

And the OCA is the second largest jurisdiction with 40% of parishioners attending to regularly to the GOA's 23%.

And the Antiochians are the third largest and have similar attendance (37%) numbers as the OCA.

And in growth of parishes again the OCA and Antioachians the same at ~20% to the GOA's 5%.

Interesting numbers. And ones I like to see.



« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 12:17:23 PM by orthonorm » Logged

Gradually fading away on a strict punishment schedule.
podkarpatska
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 7,582


SS Cyril and Methodius Church, Mercer, PA


WWW
« Reply #55 on: November 05, 2011, 04:02:52 PM »

I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect.I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Does anyone have statistics handy?  I read on another Forum that the Greeks (GOA) outnumber the 4 largest jurisdictions all together.
Don't know how accurate, but here is something.

I think that those statistics are fairly accurate and reflect the 'reality on the ground'.

Frankly, I fail to see the distinction between 'controlling' the Orthodox and 'having a controlling interest.'

For those of us long timers NOT of the OCA, we have endured these claims for going on some forty years now and yet today little has changed.

Rather than worrying about 'control', we should be focusing our attention of issues we can directly impact, such as the strength and role of our local parishes and their interaction with other local Orthodox and their home communities.



Dear Podkarpatska,

The original poster used a poor choice of words as did you when you said "we have endured these claims" I am sorry but how long have we had to endure the Phanar's claims? ( I
know I am doing the same thing but it is to make my point clear). You are usually a cool headed poster so I ask that you consider my post seriously. The OCA has no intention of forcing itself on any other jurisdiction nor does its Tomos allow for such a thing. Nor will we be usurped by others. When a united autocephalous Church in North America made up up of all those Jurisdictions now present or present in the future is possible the OCA will gladly disappear.

Thank you for your words.

I want to clarify my original post. I do not believe that the OCA institutionally has any such intention of forcing itself upon the other jurisdictions.

The claims to which I refer, in terms of 'enduring', have more to do with careless words uttered over the years by many overly enthusiastic lay people (and a few clergy) whose differences of opinion were primarily with those of us who shared the same original background, i.e. ACROD and the UOC, who were not part of the original Metropolia. I can not speak for the Hellenes.
Logged
Opus118
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Online Online

Posts: 1,308


Katerina, my sister, dear beyond measure


« Reply #56 on: November 07, 2011, 01:03:12 AM »

I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect.I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Does anyone have statistics handy?  I read on another Forum that the Greeks (GOA) outnumber the 4 largest jurisdictions all together.
Don't know how accurate, but here is something.

The 2010 numbers are here:
http://www.hartfordinstitute.org/research/2010-USOrthodox-Census.pdf


This:

Quote
In terms of number of parishes, however, Orthodox Church in America has more local congregations than GOA does: 551 and 525 respectively.

And the OCA is the second largest jurisdiction with 40% of parishioners attending to regularly to the GOA's 23%.

And the Antiochians are the third largest and have similar attendance (37%) numbers as the OCA.

And in growth of parishes again the OCA and Antioachians the same at ~20% to the GOA's 5%.

Interesting numbers. And ones I like to see.

You may like to see this result but it is still only two data points. The GOA vs OCA rumble is located here: http://www.hartfordinstitute.org/research/OrthChurchFullReport.pdf

There is no indication of statistical significance for this in depth level of inquiry from a relatively small original sample size, but the results are probably not too far off.

For those unfamiliar with the term rumble beyond the back seat of a 1930 Ford Model A:
THE PUERTO RICANS GRUMBLE, "FAIR FIGHT."
BUT IF THEY START A RUMBLE, WE'LL RUMBLE 'EM RIGHT.
(West Side Story)




Logged
ilyazhito
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 755



« Reply #57 on: December 25, 2011, 04:35:52 PM »


I thought it was a wonderful speech.  Metropolitan Jonah really knows and loves his flock.  May God grant him many years.
[/quote]
\+1! I totally agree, and believe that Jonah is the right man for the job. However, the Synod has been obstructionist.
Logged
Orual
Orthodoxy = 7, not 3
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Sunday Morning Costume Parade
Posts: 883


I'm just here for the food.


« Reply #58 on: December 26, 2011, 11:56:46 PM »

Quote from: Orual
I thought it was a wonderful speech.  Metropolitan Jonah really knows and loves his flock.  May God grant him many years.
\+1! I totally agree, and believe that Jonah is the right man for the job. However, the Synod has been obstructionist.

Ilyazhito, I think he's recovering from that and is on a roll.   He should tell the rest of the Synod to join the party, or they'll only get to read about it in the papers.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 11:57:40 PM by Orual » Logged

He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

- C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces
f.k.a. Matron.a
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,183



« Reply #59 on: December 29, 2011, 04:54:23 PM »

Quote from: Orual
I thought it was a wonderful speech.  Metropolitan Jonah really knows and loves his flock.  May God grant him many years.
\+1! I totally agree, and believe that Jonah is the right man for the job. However, the Synod has been obstructionist.

Ilyazhito, I think he's recovering from that and is on a roll.   He should tell the rest of the Synod to join the party, or they'll only get to read about it in the papers.

I believe that the OCA governance structure is based on taking actions after consensus has been achieved in the Holy Synod. This is based on Canon 34 and also on the premise that the Metropolitan is not some kind of super bishop. Just because it is harder (and slower) to proceed on this basis does not, and should not, give anybody the right to forge ahead by himself.
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
Orual
Orthodoxy = 7, not 3
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Sunday Morning Costume Parade
Posts: 883


I'm just here for the food.


« Reply #60 on: December 30, 2011, 10:24:04 PM »

Quote from: Orual
I thought it was a wonderful speech.  Metropolitan Jonah really knows and loves his flock.  May God grant him many years.
\+1! I totally agree, and believe that Jonah is the right man for the job. However, the Synod has been obstructionist.

Ilyazhito, I think he's recovering from that and is on a roll.   He should tell the rest of the Synod to join the party, or they'll only get to read about it in the papers.

I believe that the OCA governance structure is based on taking actions after consensus has been achieved in the Holy Synod. This is based on Canon 34 and also on the premise that the Metropolitan is not some kind of super bishop. Just because it is harder (and slower) to proceed on this basis does not, and should not, give anybody the right to forge ahead by himself.

I don't think anyone said he should be able to act without reference to anyone else.  

With that said, the bishops are to treat the Metropolitan as their head, as directed in the canons and the Statute, and I hope they will continue to remember this.

I had the blessing of being able to talk to the Metropolitan privately since the last AAC.  I think the OCA is blessed to have him for Metropolitan.  Eis polla eti Dhespota!
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 10:24:50 PM by Orual » Logged

He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

- C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces
f.k.a. Matron.a
username!
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ukrainian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Pennsylvaniadoxy
Posts: 4,748



« Reply #61 on: December 30, 2011, 10:44:07 PM »

I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect.I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Does anyone have statistics handy?  I read on another Forum that the Greeks (GOA) outnumber the 4 largest jurisdictions all together.
Don't know how accurate, but here is something.

The 2010 numbers are here:
http://www.hartfordinstitute.org/research/2010-USOrthodox-Census.pdf


This:

Quote
In terms of number of parishes, however, Orthodox Church in America has more local congregations than GOA does: 551 and 525 respectively.

And the OCA is the second largest jurisdiction with 40% of parishioners attending to regularly to the GOA's 23%.

And the Antiochians are the third largest and have similar attendance (37%) numbers as the OCA.

And in growth of parishes again the OCA and Antioachians the same at ~20% to the GOA's 5%.

Interesting numbers. And ones I like to see.





Man we're from almost the same area of the world.  You know as well as I do that many of the parishes in all jurisdictions are loosing more people to the Lord than we are baptizing.  The OCA has the most parishes in the mountains, and the future of many of them would only be saved by another coal boom or a mass immigration of Eastern Europeans.
Logged

Tags:
Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.108 seconds with 44 queries.