OrthodoxChristianity.net
April 23, 2014, 02:43:44 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: The Rules page has been updated.  Please familiarize yourself with its contents!
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Metropolitan Jonah  (Read 4413 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 5,840


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« on: November 01, 2011, 10:40:45 AM »

Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,413


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2011, 11:17:33 AM »

Going to give this a listen during lunch today and will post my thoughts afterwards.
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 5,840


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2011, 11:21:34 AM »

http://ancientfaith.com/specials/oca_aac16/plenary_1_metropolitan_jonah_address
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great
orthonorm
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Posts: 16,167



« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2011, 12:22:43 PM »

Many prayers for all those in Seattle right now.

I am sure some of us have more than a few nearest and dearest there.
Logged

Gradually fading away on a strict punishment schedule.
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 5,840


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2011, 03:00:05 PM »

Many prayers for all those in Seattle right now.

I am sure some of us have more than a few nearest and dearest there.
Indeed!
PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great
Orual
Orthodoxy = 7, not 3
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Sunday Morning Costume Parade
Posts: 883


I'm just here for the food.


« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2011, 11:33:37 PM »

Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

I thought it was a wonderful speech.  Metropolitan Jonah really knows and loves his flock.  May God grant him many years.
Logged

He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

- C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces
f.k.a. Matron.a
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 5,840


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2011, 10:46:52 AM »

Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

I thought it was a wonderful speech.  Metropolitan Jonah really knows and loves his flock.  May God grant him many years.
I liked it very much as well. Too bad the Q&A with the chancellor (s) was political dodge-speech.

PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great
orthonorm
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Posts: 16,167



« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2011, 11:20:51 AM »

Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

I thought it was a wonderful speech.  Metropolitan Jonah really knows and loves his flock.  May God grant him many years.


Good message. He does need to learn some public speaking skills. It is was a little difficult to listen to. Sounded nearly like a cold read.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 11:21:55 AM by orthonorm » Logged

Gradually fading away on a strict punishment schedule.
username!
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ukrainian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Pennsylvaniadoxy
Posts: 4,748



« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2011, 12:06:27 PM »

Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

PP

Did you, as a non-Orthodox person (and I'm getting this from your profile) get paid to plug the OCA in such a manner?  How do you know if they will "control the Orthodox " in North America?  You have a lot to learn, and I hope you will follow your teaching if you become a catechumen.  Seriously, also, convert to learn the basics of the faith not the politics of the dioceses.  It will help you in the long run, getting too caught up in the politics will cloud your catechumenate.
Logged

Orual
Orthodoxy = 7, not 3
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Sunday Morning Costume Parade
Posts: 883


I'm just here for the food.


« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2011, 12:08:28 PM »

Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

I thought it was a wonderful speech.  Metropolitan Jonah really knows and loves his flock.  May God grant him many years.
I liked it very much as well. Too bad the Q&A with the chancellor (s) was political dodge-speech.

PP

Yeah, and I noticed that the homosexuality issue came up again.  I am skeptical of the new chancellor's explanation of "pastoral" responses, since that is too often a euphemism for looking the other way and tolerating active sin.
Logged

He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

- C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces
f.k.a. Matron.a
FrChris
The Rodney Dangerfield of OC.net
Site Supporter
Taxiarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 7,252


Holy Father Patrick, thank you for your help!


« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2011, 12:09:25 PM »


Good message. He does need to learn some public speaking skills. It is was a little difficult to listen to. Sounded nearly like a cold read.

That was my feeling as well, after listening to his presentation. Perhaps he was nervous due to the content of the speech, especially since he needed to apologise to the assembly for the past events that affected the OCA under his leadership. That apology was needed and I am sure it was difficult.

His Eminence understood though that he needed to clear the air on some issues and rather than shirking his duty to do so he discussed the issues head on in workmanlike fashion. Good for him!

Logged

"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus
Michał Kalina
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,465


WWW
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2011, 12:12:51 PM »

His Eminence understood though that he needed to clear the air on some issues and rather than shirking his duty to do so he discussed the issues head on in workmanlike fashion. Good for him!

*His Beatitude  angel
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Orual
Orthodoxy = 7, not 3
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Sunday Morning Costume Parade
Posts: 883


I'm just here for the food.


« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2011, 12:14:47 PM »


Good message. He does need to learn some public speaking skills. It is was a little difficult to listen to. Sounded nearly like a cold read.

That was my feeling as well, after listening to his presentation. Perhaps he was nervous due to the content of the speech, especially since he needed to apologise to the assembly for the past events that affected the OCA under his leadership. That apology was needed and I am sure it was difficult.

His Eminence understood though that he needed to clear the air on some issues and rather than shirking his duty to do so he discussed the issues head on in workmanlike fashion. Good for him!

Fr Chris, please be aware that according to the customs of the OCA, their primate is called "His Beatitude".  I am confident no disrespect was intended by you as I know in the Greek tradition, Metropolitans are called "His Eminence".
Logged

He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

- C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces
f.k.a. Matron.a
orthonorm
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Posts: 16,167



« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2011, 12:16:40 PM »


Good message. He does need to learn some public speaking skills. It is was a little difficult to listen to. Sounded nearly like a cold read.

That was my feeling as well, after listening to his presentation. Perhaps he was nervous due to the content of the speech, especially since he needed to apologise to the assembly for the past events that affected the OCA under his leadership. That apology was needed and I am sure it was difficult.

His Eminence understood though that he needed to clear the air on some issues and rather than shirking his duty to do so he discussed the issues head on in workmanlike fashion. Good for him!



Quite likely.

I thought that same at the beginning. But I figured after five minutes into it, you calm down.

Agreed with your comments.

Just if he is going to be getting up soap boxes in this day and age, your rhetoric has to match your delivery. There was a bit of a rallying cry given, but wasn't much St. Crispin nor St. Crispinian in it.

Not that anyone who is close to him cares what I think.



Logged

Gradually fading away on a strict punishment schedule.
Michał Kalina
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,465


WWW
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2011, 12:17:05 PM »

Fr Chris, please be aware that according to the customs of the OCA, their primate is called "His Beatitude".  I am confident no disrespect was intended by you as I know in the Greek tradition, Metropolitans are called "His Eminence".

I think it was the other reason (14 vs 15). Wink
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Ortho_cat
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: AOCA-DWMA
Posts: 5,392



« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2011, 12:17:24 PM »

Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

PP

Did you, as a non-Orthodox person (and I'm getting this from your profile) get paid to plug the OCA in such a manner?  How do you know if they will "control the Orthodox " in North America?  You have a lot to learn, and I hope you will follow your teaching if you become a catechumen.  Seriously, also, convert to learn the basics of the faith not the politics of the dioceses.  It will help you in the long run, getting too caught up in the politics will cloud your catechumenate.

I found this to be an unnecessary attack on PP. Sad
Logged
Orual
Orthodoxy = 7, not 3
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Sunday Morning Costume Parade
Posts: 883


I'm just here for the food.


« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2011, 12:29:02 PM »


Good message. He does need to learn some public speaking skills. It is was a little difficult to listen to. Sounded nearly like a cold read.

That was my feeling as well, after listening to his presentation. Perhaps he was nervous due to the content of the speech, especially since he needed to apologise to the assembly for the past events that affected the OCA under his leadership. That apology was needed and I am sure it was difficult.

His Eminence understood though that he needed to clear the air on some issues and rather than shirking his duty to do so he discussed the issues head on in workmanlike fashion. Good for him!

Replying now to the substance of your post, Fr. Chris, I agree with your assessment.  This was likely a very emotional occasion for Metropolitan Jonah.  Normally he's a spontaneous and vibrant speaker, but reading from the paper probably helped him keep it together.    Still, I felt a lot of sincerity coming from him, and so the flawed delivery didn't detract too much from his message.  I am very happy he addressed a lot of the major issues in the OCA and the conflicts within the Holy Synod with grace and aplomb. 

Bishop Melchizedek is rather more painful to listen to.  Every other word is "uh".  Yikes.
Logged

He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

- C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces
f.k.a. Matron.a
Orual
Orthodoxy = 7, not 3
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Sunday Morning Costume Parade
Posts: 883


I'm just here for the food.


« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2011, 12:36:24 PM »

Fr Chris, please be aware that according to the customs of the OCA, their primate is called "His Beatitude".  I am confident no disrespect was intended by you as I know in the Greek tradition, Metropolitans are called "His Eminence".

I think it was the other reason (14 vs 15). Wink

Actually, even if one comes from a church that does not regard the OCA as a legitimately autocephalous entity, I believe they do accept that the OCA, while remaining under Moscow, has been given the dignities of an autocephalous church by its mother church, including calling its first hierarch "His Beatitude".
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 12:37:44 PM by Orual » Logged

He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

- C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces
f.k.a. Matron.a
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 35,629



« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2011, 12:39:21 PM »

Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

PP

Did you, as a non-Orthodox person (and I'm getting this from your profile) get paid to plug the OCA in such a manner?  How do you know if they will "control the Orthodox " in North America?  You have a lot to learn, and I hope you will follow your teaching if you become a catechumen.  Seriously, also, convert to learn the basics of the faith not the politics of the dioceses.  It will help you in the long run, getting too caught up in the politics will cloud your catechumenate.

I found this to be an unnecessary attack on PP. Sad
more so, as PP is right.  The mere fact of the OCA's autocephaly already has a controllling aspect on the Orthodox Chruch here and elsewhere (the EP stopped bringing its Estonians like at Ravenna, when Moscow served notice that the OCA would be coming along to the next event).

I'll develop that, Lord willing, as people argue against it.  I already have a headache.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 5,840


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2011, 03:19:37 PM »

Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

PP

Did you, as a non-Orthodox person (and I'm getting this from your profile) get paid to plug the OCA in such a manner?  How do you know if they will "control the Orthodox " in North America?  You have a lot to learn, and I hope you will follow your teaching if you become a catechumen.  Seriously, also, convert to learn the basics of the faith not the politics of the dioceses.  It will help you in the long run, getting too caught up in the politics will cloud your catechumenate.
I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect. No I did not get paid to plug anything. I am also capable of handling more than 1 subject at a time. This is not getting in the way of any teaching or anything. I am simply interested in a meeting that in the future MAY have repercussions for me. If you dont agree, thats totally cool. Im not mad about that.Just dont listen to it if you dont agree.

I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Quote
I found this to be an unnecessary attack on PP

I appreciate that, but I dont think it was made as an attack. Just an admonishment to stay on target. its cool.


PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great
FrChris
The Rodney Dangerfield of OC.net
Site Supporter
Taxiarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 7,252


Holy Father Patrick, thank you for your help!


« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2011, 04:49:20 PM »


Good message. He does need to learn some public speaking skills. It is was a little difficult to listen to. Sounded nearly like a cold read.

That was my feeling as well, after listening to his presentation. Perhaps he was nervous due to the content of the speech, especially since he needed to apologise to the assembly for the past events that affected the OCA under his leadership. That apology was needed and I am sure it was difficult.

His Eminence understood though that he needed to clear the air on some issues and rather than shirking his duty to do so he discussed the issues head on in workmanlike fashion. Good for him!

Fr Chris, please be aware that according to the customs of the OCA, their primate is called "His Beatitude".  I am confident no disrespect was intended by you as I know in the Greek tradition, Metropolitans are called "His Eminence".

Please accept my humble apologies! The titles of respect given OCA hierarchs has always confused me, and the few times I have served at an OCA altar I have always had to write out the entire phrase and honorific just to keep it clear in my head.

And if anyone was offended by yet another example of my liturgical ineptitude, I ask for your forgiveness.
Logged

"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus
Orual
Orthodoxy = 7, not 3
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Sunday Morning Costume Parade
Posts: 883


I'm just here for the food.


« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2011, 05:36:33 PM »


Good message. He does need to learn some public speaking skills. It is was a little difficult to listen to. Sounded nearly like a cold read.

That was my feeling as well, after listening to his presentation. Perhaps he was nervous due to the content of the speech, especially since he needed to apologise to the assembly for the past events that affected the OCA under his leadership. That apology was needed and I am sure it was difficult.

His Eminence understood though that he needed to clear the air on some issues and rather than shirking his duty to do so he discussed the issues head on in workmanlike fashion. Good for him!

Fr Chris, please be aware that according to the customs of the OCA, their primate is called "His Beatitude".  I am confident no disrespect was intended by you as I know in the Greek tradition, Metropolitans are called "His Eminence".

Please accept my humble apologies! The titles of respect given OCA hierarchs has always confused me, and the few times I have served at an OCA altar I have always had to write out the entire phrase and honorific just to keep it clear in my head.

And if anyone was offended by yet another example of my liturgical ineptitude, I ask for your forgiveness.

No problem, Fr Chris, as I said, I saw it as a simple mistake and not an intentional slight.  The titles "Archbishop" and "Metropolitan" are reversed between the Greek tradition and that of others, and sometimes primates are called Archbishop and sometimes they're called Metropolitan, and it can all be quite confusing.

The OCA's custom is to call a bishop "His Grace" and an archbishop "His Eminence", and I believe those are the same as used in the Greek tradition.  Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, Romania, Cyprus, Poland, and the Czech Lands and Slovakia all call their primates "His Beatitude" as well.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 05:39:15 PM by Orual » Logged

He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

- C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces
f.k.a. Matron.a
augustin717
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: The other ROC
Posts: 5,524



« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2011, 06:05:53 PM »

Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

I thought it was a wonderful speech.  Metropolitan Jonah really knows and loves his flock.  May God grant him many years.
I liked it very much as well. Too bad the Q&A with the chancellor (s) was political dodge-speech.

PP

Yeah, and I noticed that the homosexuality issue came up again.  I am skeptical of the new chancellor's explanation of "pastoral" responses, since that is too often a euphemism for looking the other way and tolerating active sin.
Yeah, that would be the only "active sin" they look the other way at. Oh, gawd Roll Eyes
Logged
Basil 320
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,869



« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2011, 06:53:38 AM »

"Eis pola eti, Despota." Excellent keynote address for a vision for the immediate future of the OCA.   What an example of Christian humility this prelate exudes!  Humility is a Christian characteristic that is not in evidence among too many of our hierarchs today. Let's keep in mind the disfunctionality of the administrative environment he inherited.  His detractors can say what they may, but my gut reaction to his primacial ministry is that there is something very special about this hierarch, something that is not clear today, but given his relative youth and the shortness of his primacial tenure so far, will ultimately benefit the OCA and our Holy Orthodoxy in North America.
Logged

"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 5,840


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2011, 09:30:08 AM »

"Eis pola eti, Despota." Excellent keynote address for a vision for the immediate future of the OCA.   What an example of Christian humility this prelate exudes!  Humility is a Christian characteristic that is not in evidence among too many of our hierarchs today. Let's keep in mind the disfunctionality of the administrative environment he inherited.  His detractors can say what they may, but my gut reaction to his primacial ministry is that there is something very special about this hierarch, something that is not clear today, but given his relative youth and the shortness of his primacial tenure so far, will ultimately benefit the OCA and our Holy Orthodoxy in North America.
I gotta say, alot of folks give Met. Jonah a lot of grief that I think is totally unwarranted. He seems to really want to make the OCA respectable and show the rest of Orthodoxy that it can be the one Orthodox Church of America.

From what I heard from the other folks (the chancellor and the past chancellor mostly) he has a long way to go. Those two sounded like politicians with the way they effectively dodged giving a straight answer.

Between the sexual stuff and the financial stuff and other things that we may not even be aware of, I think that they have the right man for the job. I respect him greatly from what I've heard/read.

The only folks really hitting hi hard appears to me, to be the ones that were in the center of all this mess.
PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great
scamandrius
Dr., Rdr. Scamandrius to you :)
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek by desire; Antiochian by necessity
Posts: 5,343



« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2011, 01:51:06 PM »

I'm listening right now and his voice does sound like he is very nervous.  I can't imagine the weights that His Beatitude carries due to his position and, considering what has happened to him in recent months, it's not surprising as he is speaking to a lot of people who probably want him gone.

Still, I like what I am hearing and I'm happy that he has begun on such an optimistic note.
Logged

I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 5,840


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2011, 01:54:47 PM »

I'm listening right now and his voice does sound like he is very nervous.  I can't imagine the weights that His Beatitude carries due to his position and, considering what has happened to him in recent months, it's not surprising as he is speaking to a lot of people who probably want him gone.

Still, I like what I am hearing and I'm happy that he has begun on such an optimistic note.
Yeah I'd be nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs if I were in his shoes.

The debate about the lowering of the $105 fee to $50 (The New York Plan I believe) is quite lively too. Just finished listening and wow, pretty heated.

PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great
Jetavan
Most Humble Servant of Pan-Vespuccian and Holocenic Hominids
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christic
Jurisdiction: Dixie
Posts: 6,079


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2011, 02:05:32 PM »

I'm listening right now and his voice does sound like he is very nervous.
That's his normal speaking/lecture voice, from my personal experience.
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
bogdan
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 1,615



« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2011, 02:11:06 PM »

I'm listening right now and his voice does sound like he is very nervous.
That's his normal speaking/lecture voice, from my personal experience.

Yeah, he did not seem to be speaking any differently from the other times I've heard him speak. He didn't seem nervous or ill-prepared to me.

Many years to Metr. Jonah for standing firm.
Logged
Cognomen
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Phyletism Rules, OK
Posts: 1,949


Ungrateful Biped


« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2011, 02:42:13 PM »

I'm listening right now and his voice does sound like he is very nervous.
That's his normal speaking/lecture voice, from my personal experience.

Same here.  Good on him for being honest and humble.
Logged

North American Eastern Orthodox Parish Council Delegate for the Canonization of Saints Twin Towers and Pentagon, as well as the Propagation of the Doctrine of the Assumption of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (NAEOPCDCSTTPPDAMAFM®).
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 5,840


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2011, 03:16:28 PM »

The more I read from the folks that dont like him, the better I do Smiley

PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great
Cognomen
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Phyletism Rules, OK
Posts: 1,949


Ungrateful Biped


« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2011, 03:22:40 PM »

The more I read from the folks that dont like him, the better I do Smiley

Same here (2nd post in a row, in one thread, with that response.  Man, am I an original and substantive contributor!).
Logged

North American Eastern Orthodox Parish Council Delegate for the Canonization of Saints Twin Towers and Pentagon, as well as the Propagation of the Doctrine of the Assumption of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (NAEOPCDCSTTPPDAMAFM®).
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 5,840


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2011, 03:34:28 PM »

The more I read from the folks that dont like him, the better I do Smiley

Same here (2nd post in a row, in one thread, with that response.  Man, am I an original and substantive contributor!).
laugh laugh laugh laugh
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great
username!
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ukrainian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Pennsylvaniadoxy
Posts: 4,748



« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2011, 04:23:05 PM »

Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

PP

Did you, as a non-Orthodox person (and I'm getting this from your profile) get paid to plug the OCA in such a manner?  How do you know if they will "control the Orthodox " in North America?  You have a lot to learn, and I hope you will follow your teaching if you become a catechumen.  Seriously, also, convert to learn the basics of the faith not the politics of the dioceses.  It will help you in the long run, getting too caught up in the politics will cloud your catechumenate.
I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect. No I did not get paid to plug anything. I am also capable of handling more than 1 subject at a time. This is not getting in the way of any teaching or anything. I am simply interested in a meeting that in the future MAY have repercussions for me. If you dont agree, thats totally cool. Im not mad about that.Just dont listen to it if you dont agree.

I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Quote
I found this to be an unnecessary attack on PP

I appreciate that, but I dont think it was made as an attack. Just an admonishment to stay on target. its cool.


PP
Part of being Orthodox is being humble, and listening when people point things out.  What happens at the bishops level usually doesn't have a bearing on those inthe pew.  The fullness of the Faith is completed in the altar on Sunday morning not at any Sobor or through  any diocese.  Therefore, it doesn't really matter who is the bishop, who said what at the diocese level, all that is in focus os the Liturgy.
Logged

username!
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ukrainian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Pennsylvaniadoxy
Posts: 4,748



« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2011, 04:24:44 PM »

Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

PP

Did you, as a non-Orthodox person (and I'm getting this from your profile) get paid to plug the OCA in such a manner?  How do you know if they will "control the Orthodox " in North America?  You have a lot to learn, and I hope you will follow your teaching if you become a catechumen.  Seriously, also, convert to learn the basics of the faith not the politics of the dioceses.  It will help you in the long run, getting too caught up in the politics will cloud your catechumenate.

I found this to be an unnecessary attack on PP. Sad

IIt was guidance not an attack.  People these days don't want guidance, they want to go it alone and if anyone offers advice and it doesn't appeal to the answer they want then the person offering the advice is seen as someone attacking them.
Logged

primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 5,840


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2011, 04:35:08 PM »

Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

PP

Did you, as a non-Orthodox person (and I'm getting this from your profile) get paid to plug the OCA in such a manner?  How do you know if they will "control the Orthodox " in North America?  You have a lot to learn, and I hope you will follow your teaching if you become a catechumen.  Seriously, also, convert to learn the basics of the faith not the politics of the dioceses.  It will help you in the long run, getting too caught up in the politics will cloud your catechumenate.

I found this to be an unnecessary attack on PP. Sad

IIt was guidance not an attack.  People these days don't want guidance, they want to go it alone and if anyone offers advice and it doesn't appeal to the answer they want then the person offering the advice is seen as someone attacking them.
As I said, I didnt take your comments as an attack, just an admonishment to

Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great
username!
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ukrainian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Pennsylvaniadoxy
Posts: 4,748



« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2011, 04:42:56 PM »

Hey, the church is a family.  We are all one in Christ.  So anything me or any other Orthodox Christian might say as guidance is only done with agape.  Haha, I got to use the word agape in a sentence!  I've seen a lot of people come into the church and get so mixed up because they balance faith and politics and usually the politics tip the scales and they become sullen and forlorn.
Logged

orthonorm
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Posts: 16,167



« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2011, 05:07:07 PM »

The more I read from the folks that dont like him, the better I do Smiley

PP

Who are you reading that doesn't "like" him? I am sure if you are referring to people within this thread or without.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 05:08:43 PM by orthonorm » Logged

Gradually fading away on a strict punishment schedule.
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,063


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2011, 06:56:12 PM »

The only thing that I didn't like is when he basically "called out" the other hierarchs & said publically that they didn't like him & didn't like the way he did things, etc. etc.  Airing out your dirty laundry is one thing, but this much is not a good thing (IMO).  I think some things are better left behind closed doors.  Say it to their face, not to other people.  It could seem to be attention getting, and not serve its purpose.  If you are truly repentant, then let your repentance be enough.  You don't have to tell everyone about it. 

other than that, it was fairly good. 
Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
Jetavan
Most Humble Servant of Pan-Vespuccian and Holocenic Hominids
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christic
Jurisdiction: Dixie
Posts: 6,079


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #39 on: November 03, 2011, 10:21:36 PM »

The only thing that I didn't like is when he basically "called out" the other hierarchs & said publically that they didn't like him & didn't like the way he did things, etc. etc.  Airing out your dirty laundry is one thing, but this much is not a good thing (IMO).  I think some things are better left behind closed doors.  Say it to their face, not to other people. 
You don't think he and they have already discussed this behind closed doors?
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,063


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2011, 01:46:05 AM »

Maybe they have.  If they have, then there's even more reason to now air your dirty laundry in front of everyone.  handle it like adults & move on.  The church no longer does public confessions.  I just think it's very unprofessional. 
Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
SubdeaconDavid
"...the spread of the light of Orthodoxy among the peoples of all the lands where our Church exists continues as an inseparable part of our mission": Metropolitan Hilarion, First Hierarch of ROCOR
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Russian Orthodox Church Abroad (ROCOR)
Posts: 504


Помилуй мя Боже, по велицей милости Твоей


WWW
« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2011, 02:45:35 AM »

The more I read from the folks that dont like him, the better I do Smiley
--+
PP
 HB Metropolitan Jonah's approach to the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR is about rapproachment and relationship and has mooted closer fraternal ties with the Russian Church as autonomous, rather than autocephalous, clearly a Cold War Soviet vestige that has not united US Orthodoxy.  In raising this option he has shown vision and leadership, just as he has re the great moral debates.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 02:47:29 AM by SubdeaconDavid » Logged

Visit my blog@  http://orthodoxtasmania.blogspot.com

To the Russians abroad it has been granted to shine in the whole world  the light of Orthodoxy, so that other peoples, seeing their good deeds, might glorify our Father in Heaven, and thus obtain salvation
S John of Shanghai & San Francisco
Michał Kalina
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,465


WWW
« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2011, 04:09:54 AM »

The more I read from the folks that dont like him, the better I do Smiley
--+
PP
  HB Metropolitan Jonah's approach to the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR is about rapproachment and relationship and has mooted closer fraternal ties with the Russian Church as autonomous, rather than autocephalous,

You'd like to.
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
SubdeaconDavid
"...the spread of the light of Orthodoxy among the peoples of all the lands where our Church exists continues as an inseparable part of our mission": Metropolitan Hilarion, First Hierarch of ROCOR
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Russian Orthodox Church Abroad (ROCOR)
Posts: 504


Помилуй мя Боже, по велицей милости Твоей


WWW
« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2011, 05:48:02 AM »

The more I read from the folks that dont like him, the better I do Smiley
--+
PP
  HB Metropolitan Jonah's approach to the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR is about rapproachment and relationship and has mooted closer fraternal ties with the Russian Church as autonomous, rather than autocephalous,

You'd like to.
Like to?  Like to see the North American Metropolia reunited with ROCOR and Moscow?  Of course I would.  The Metropolia was as much a part of the Russian Church in North America as was and is ROCOR and the Patriarchal parishes.  Both ROCOR and the MP in North America have plenty of convert priests, plenty of English or bi-language parishes and missions, plenty of converts. All of them commemorate HH Patriarch Kyrill and there is plenty of room to accommodate the OCA with fraternal love, respect and pastoral care.

 The fit with the OCA is excellent in the main, especially with the Diocese of Alaska, and His Beatitude Metropolitan Jonah's more traditional monasteries and parishes.  No I am not talking about Russifying the English language parishes of the OCA - because the Russian Orthodox Church in her wisdom has embraced all along liturgy in the vernacular.
Logged

Visit my blog@  http://orthodoxtasmania.blogspot.com

To the Russians abroad it has been granted to shine in the whole world  the light of Orthodoxy, so that other peoples, seeing their good deeds, might glorify our Father in Heaven, and thus obtain salvation
S John of Shanghai & San Francisco
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 35,629



« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2011, 09:12:10 AM »

The more I read from the folks that dont like him, the better I do Smiley
--+
PP
  HB Metropolitan Jonah's approach to the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR is about rapproachment and relationship and has mooted closer fraternal ties with the Russian Church as autonomous, rather than autocephalous,

You'd like to.
Like to?  Like to see the North American Metropolia reunited with ROCOR and Moscow?
The OCA was reunited to Moscow by the Tomos of Autocephaly.

Of course I would.  The Metropolia was
past tense
as much a part of the Russian Church in North America as was and is ROCOR and the Patriarchal parishes.  Both ROCOR and the MP in North America have plenty of convert priests, plenty of English or bi-language parishes and missions, plenty of converts. All of them commemorate HH Patriarch Kyrill

the MP also commemorate Met. Jonah.
and there is plenty of room to accommodate the OCA with fraternal love, respect and pastoral care.
Other than running interference on the Pan-Orthodox/international level, the Church of Moscow is in no position to care for the OCA.  This is not the days of struggling immigrants and natives left behind, dependent on the inexhaustible largesse of the Czar.  Moscow has plenty of work for it in Russia.

The fit with the OCA is excellent in the main, especially with the Diocese of Alaska, and His Beatitude Metropolitan Jonah's more traditional monasteries and parishes.  No I am not talking about Russifying the English language parishes of the OCA - because the Russian Orthodox Church in her wisdom has embraced all along liturgy in the vernacular.
there is more to it than the language issue.  The history of A.C.R.O.D. shows that.  The fit of ROCOR and ACROD in the OCA as Ethnic dioceses, Russian and Carpatho-Russian, would be excellent, as it would leave leave those orientations to persue them, and leave others not have to choose between the two.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Orual
Orthodoxy = 7, not 3
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Sunday Morning Costume Parade
Posts: 883


I'm just here for the food.


« Reply #45 on: November 04, 2011, 02:57:49 PM »

Maybe they have.  If they have, then there's even more reason to now air your dirty laundry in front of everyone.  handle it like adults & move on.  The church no longer does public confessions.  I just think it's very unprofessional. 

I think Metropolitan Jonah was just acknowledging what everyone already knew through word-of-mouth.  He did the same thing at the last AAC.  It brings the conversation into the open and deprives the rumor-mongers of their power.
Logged

He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

- C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces
f.k.a. Matron.a
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,063


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #46 on: November 04, 2011, 04:48:25 PM »

While that is true, I just think there's a better way to do it.  Perhaps this is all related to what another poster said about his inexperience?  (even he himself mentioned it several times).  Anyway, i'm not here to nit-pick.  Just thinking out loud. 
Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
SubdeaconDavid
"...the spread of the light of Orthodoxy among the peoples of all the lands where our Church exists continues as an inseparable part of our mission": Metropolitan Hilarion, First Hierarch of ROCOR
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Russian Orthodox Church Abroad (ROCOR)
Posts: 504


Помилуй мя Боже, по велицей милости Твоей


WWW
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2011, 12:16:56 AM »

The more I read from the folks that dont like him, the better I do Smiley
--+
PP
  HB Metropolitan Jonah's approach to the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR is about rapproachment and relationship and has mooted closer fraternal ties with the Russian Church as autonomous, rather than autocephalous,
Moscow 'interferes' at a Pan Orthodox level?  The Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR are a worldwide Church, with parishes, monasteries and missions in most of the countries of the planet.  She has autocephalous Churches in the Czeck and Slovak nations and Poland.  She has the missionary presence of ROCOR in Korea, Indonesia, and most Western countries.  She has an autonomous Chinese Church rebuilding. There are Russian churches and missions and monasteries in Thailand and Cambodia.  The Russian Church since medieval times has used whatever local language is required liturgically and for pastoral work.  The Russian Church has a substantial presence in Palestine and the Holy Land.  There is even a temple in Antarctica.  St. John of Shanghai, San Francisco and western Europe in an address to the Dioces\an Sobor of 1960 in Geneva stated:
Quote
The borders of the Russian Church did not at all used to coincide with the borders of the Russian State. Long ago the Russian Church already existed in America and that part of Her was an inseparable part of the Russian Church. The Russian Church cared not only for Russian people or subjects of the Russian State: Orthodox of various nationalities, various countries and states, belonged to her. One of the vicar-bishops in North America was a Syrian who had pastoral oversight of the Syrians. In general, in America right up until the end of the First World War, the Russian Church cared for all Orthodox. All the bishops belonged to the Russian Church. The Russian Church also cared for the Assyrians, and at the end of the last century there was a special Syro-Chaldean bishop in Iran who also belonged to the Russian Church.
The situation in Western Europe was the same.
Y
Logged

Visit my blog@  http://orthodoxtasmania.blogspot.com

To the Russians abroad it has been granted to shine in the whole world  the light of Orthodoxy, so that other peoples, seeing their good deeds, might glorify our Father in Heaven, and thus obtain salvation
S John of Shanghai & San Francisco
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 35,629



« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2011, 12:39:08 AM »

The more I read from the folks that dont like him, the better I do Smiley
--+
PP
 HB Metropolitan Jonah's approach to the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR is about rapproachment and relationship and has mooted closer fraternal ties with the Russian Church as autonomous, rather than autocephalous,

Moscow 'interferes' at a Pan Orthodox level?  The Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR are a worldwide Church, with parishes, monasteries and missions in most of the countries of the planet.
So does the EP and Antioch.

She has autocephalous Churches in the Czeck and Slovak nations and Poland.
If they are autocephalous, she does not have them.

She has the missionary presence of ROCOR in Korea, Indonesia, and most Western countries.  She has an autonomous Chinese Church rebuilding. There are Russian churches and missions and monasteries in Thailand and Cambodia.  The Russian Church since medieval times has used whatever local language is required liturgically and for pastoral work.
Not entirely true.  For instance, the Russification campaigns.

The Russian Church has a substantial presence in Palestine and the Holy Land.  There is even a temple in Antarctica.  St. John of Shanghai, San Francisco and western Europe in an address to the Dioces\an Sobor of 1960 in Geneva stated:
Quote
The borders of the Russian Church did not at all used to coincide with the borders of the Russian State.
Not sure if that means anything for a world empire in the age of imperialism.

Long ago the Russian Church already existed in America and that part of Her was an inseparable part of the Russian Church.
She is now seperate.

The Russian Church cared not only for Russian people or subjects of the Russian State: Orthodox of various nationalities, various countries and states, belonged to her. One of the vicar-bishops in North America was a Syrian who had pastoral oversight of the Syrians. In general, in America right up until the end of the First World War, the Russian Church cared for all Orthodox. All the bishops belonged to the Russian Church.
That was true.  It is not now.

The Russian Church also cared for the Assyrians, and at the end of the last century there was a special Syro-Chaldean bishop in Iran who also belonged to the Russian Church.
He ended up in Chicago.

The situation in Western Europe was the same.
It is still the same.

Y
?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 12:40:48 AM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
IreneOlinyk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox (EP)
Posts: 203


« Reply #49 on: November 05, 2011, 10:05:31 AM »

I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect.I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Does anyone have statistics handy?  I read on another Forum that the Greeks (GOA) outnumber the 4 largest jurisdictions all together.
Logged
Jetavan
Most Humble Servant of Pan-Vespuccian and Holocenic Hominids
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christic
Jurisdiction: Dixie
Posts: 6,079


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #50 on: November 05, 2011, 10:22:30 AM »

I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect.I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Does anyone have statistics handy?  I read on another Forum that the Greeks (GOA) outnumber the 4 largest jurisdictions all together.
Don't know how accurate, but here is something.
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
podkarpatska
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 7,582


SS Cyril and Methodius Church, Mercer, PA


WWW
« Reply #51 on: November 05, 2011, 10:35:58 AM »

I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect.I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Does anyone have statistics handy?  I read on another Forum that the Greeks (GOA) outnumber the 4 largest jurisdictions all together.
Don't know how accurate, but here is something.

I think that those statistics are fairly accurate and reflect the 'reality on the ground'.

Frankly, I fail to see the distinction between 'controlling' the Orthodox and 'having a controlling interest.'

For those of us long timers NOT of the OCA, we have endured these claims for going on some forty years now and yet today little has changed.

Rather than worrying about 'control', we should be focusing our attention of issues we can directly impact, such as the strength and role of our local parishes and their interaction with other local Orthodox and their home communities.

Logged
Opus118
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,308


Katerina, my sister, dear beyond measure


« Reply #52 on: November 05, 2011, 11:59:48 AM »

I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect.I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Does anyone have statistics handy?  I read on another Forum that the Greeks (GOA) outnumber the 4 largest jurisdictions all together.
Don't know how accurate, but here is something.

The 2010 numbers are here:
http://www.hartfordinstitute.org/research/2010-USOrthodox-Census.pdf
Logged
ICXCNIKA
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Recovering Orthodox though spiritually wounded
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 576



« Reply #53 on: November 05, 2011, 12:11:44 PM »

I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect.I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Does anyone have statistics handy?  I read on another Forum that the Greeks (GOA) outnumber the 4 largest jurisdictions all together.
Don't know how accurate, but here is something.

I think that those statistics are fairly accurate and reflect the 'reality on the ground'.

Frankly, I fail to see the distinction between 'controlling' the Orthodox and 'having a controlling interest.'

For those of us long timers NOT of the OCA, we have endured these claims for going on some forty years now and yet today little has changed.

Rather than worrying about 'control', we should be focusing our attention of issues we can directly impact, such as the strength and role of our local parishes and their interaction with other local Orthodox and their home communities.



Dear Podkarpatska,

The original poster used a poor choice of words as did you when you said "we have endured these claims" I am sorry but how long have we had to endure the Phanar's claims? ( I
know I am doing the same thing but it is to make my point clear). You are usually a cool headed poster so I ask that you consider my post seriously. The OCA has no intention of forcing itself on any other jurisdiction nor does its Tomos allow for such a thing. Nor will we be usurped by others. When a united autocephalous Church in North America made up up of all those Jurisdictions now present or present in the future is possible the OCA will gladly disappear.
Logged
orthonorm
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Posts: 16,167



« Reply #54 on: November 05, 2011, 12:16:28 PM »

I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect.I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Does anyone have statistics handy?  I read on another Forum that the Greeks (GOA) outnumber the 4 largest jurisdictions all together.
Don't know how accurate, but here is something.

The 2010 numbers are here:
http://www.hartfordinstitute.org/research/2010-USOrthodox-Census.pdf


This:

Quote
In terms of number of parishes, however, Orthodox Church in America has more local congregations than GOA does: 551 and 525 respectively.

And the OCA is the second largest jurisdiction with 40% of parishioners attending to regularly to the GOA's 23%.

And the Antiochians are the third largest and have similar attendance (37%) numbers as the OCA.

And in growth of parishes again the OCA and Antioachians the same at ~20% to the GOA's 5%.

Interesting numbers. And ones I like to see.



« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 12:17:23 PM by orthonorm » Logged

Gradually fading away on a strict punishment schedule.
podkarpatska
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 7,582


SS Cyril and Methodius Church, Mercer, PA


WWW
« Reply #55 on: November 05, 2011, 04:02:52 PM »

I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect.I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Does anyone have statistics handy?  I read on another Forum that the Greeks (GOA) outnumber the 4 largest jurisdictions all together.
Don't know how accurate, but here is something.

I think that those statistics are fairly accurate and reflect the 'reality on the ground'.

Frankly, I fail to see the distinction between 'controlling' the Orthodox and 'having a controlling interest.'

For those of us long timers NOT of the OCA, we have endured these claims for going on some forty years now and yet today little has changed.

Rather than worrying about 'control', we should be focusing our attention of issues we can directly impact, such as the strength and role of our local parishes and their interaction with other local Orthodox and their home communities.



Dear Podkarpatska,

The original poster used a poor choice of words as did you when you said "we have endured these claims" I am sorry but how long have we had to endure the Phanar's claims? ( I
know I am doing the same thing but it is to make my point clear). You are usually a cool headed poster so I ask that you consider my post seriously. The OCA has no intention of forcing itself on any other jurisdiction nor does its Tomos allow for such a thing. Nor will we be usurped by others. When a united autocephalous Church in North America made up up of all those Jurisdictions now present or present in the future is possible the OCA will gladly disappear.

Thank you for your words.

I want to clarify my original post. I do not believe that the OCA institutionally has any such intention of forcing itself upon the other jurisdictions.

The claims to which I refer, in terms of 'enduring', have more to do with careless words uttered over the years by many overly enthusiastic lay people (and a few clergy) whose differences of opinion were primarily with those of us who shared the same original background, i.e. ACROD and the UOC, who were not part of the original Metropolia. I can not speak for the Hellenes.
Logged
Opus118
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,308


Katerina, my sister, dear beyond measure


« Reply #56 on: November 07, 2011, 01:03:12 AM »

I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect.I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Does anyone have statistics handy?  I read on another Forum that the Greeks (GOA) outnumber the 4 largest jurisdictions all together.
Don't know how accurate, but here is something.

The 2010 numbers are here:
http://www.hartfordinstitute.org/research/2010-USOrthodox-Census.pdf


This:

Quote
In terms of number of parishes, however, Orthodox Church in America has more local congregations than GOA does: 551 and 525 respectively.

And the OCA is the second largest jurisdiction with 40% of parishioners attending to regularly to the GOA's 23%.

And the Antiochians are the third largest and have similar attendance (37%) numbers as the OCA.

And in growth of parishes again the OCA and Antioachians the same at ~20% to the GOA's 5%.

Interesting numbers. And ones I like to see.

You may like to see this result but it is still only two data points. The GOA vs OCA rumble is located here: http://www.hartfordinstitute.org/research/OrthChurchFullReport.pdf

There is no indication of statistical significance for this in depth level of inquiry from a relatively small original sample size, but the results are probably not too far off.

For those unfamiliar with the term rumble beyond the back seat of a 1930 Ford Model A:
THE PUERTO RICANS GRUMBLE, "FAIR FIGHT."
BUT IF THEY START A RUMBLE, WE'LL RUMBLE 'EM RIGHT.
(West Side Story)




Logged
ilyazhito
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 755



« Reply #57 on: December 25, 2011, 04:35:52 PM »


I thought it was a wonderful speech.  Metropolitan Jonah really knows and loves his flock.  May God grant him many years.
[/quote]
\+1! I totally agree, and believe that Jonah is the right man for the job. However, the Synod has been obstructionist.
Logged
Orual
Orthodoxy = 7, not 3
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Sunday Morning Costume Parade
Posts: 883


I'm just here for the food.


« Reply #58 on: December 26, 2011, 11:56:46 PM »

Quote from: Orual
I thought it was a wonderful speech.  Metropolitan Jonah really knows and loves his flock.  May God grant him many years.
\+1! I totally agree, and believe that Jonah is the right man for the job. However, the Synod has been obstructionist.

Ilyazhito, I think he's recovering from that and is on a roll.   He should tell the rest of the Synod to join the party, or they'll only get to read about it in the papers.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 11:57:40 PM by Orual » Logged

He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

- C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces
f.k.a. Matron.a
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,183



« Reply #59 on: December 29, 2011, 04:54:23 PM »

Quote from: Orual
I thought it was a wonderful speech.  Metropolitan Jonah really knows and loves his flock.  May God grant him many years.
\+1! I totally agree, and believe that Jonah is the right man for the job. However, the Synod has been obstructionist.

Ilyazhito, I think he's recovering from that and is on a roll.   He should tell the rest of the Synod to join the party, or they'll only get to read about it in the papers.

I believe that the OCA governance structure is based on taking actions after consensus has been achieved in the Holy Synod. This is based on Canon 34 and also on the premise that the Metropolitan is not some kind of super bishop. Just because it is harder (and slower) to proceed on this basis does not, and should not, give anybody the right to forge ahead by himself.
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
Orual
Orthodoxy = 7, not 3
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Sunday Morning Costume Parade
Posts: 883


I'm just here for the food.


« Reply #60 on: December 30, 2011, 10:24:04 PM »

Quote from: Orual
I thought it was a wonderful speech.  Metropolitan Jonah really knows and loves his flock.  May God grant him many years.
\+1! I totally agree, and believe that Jonah is the right man for the job. However, the Synod has been obstructionist.

Ilyazhito, I think he's recovering from that and is on a roll.   He should tell the rest of the Synod to join the party, or they'll only get to read about it in the papers.

I believe that the OCA governance structure is based on taking actions after consensus has been achieved in the Holy Synod. This is based on Canon 34 and also on the premise that the Metropolitan is not some kind of super bishop. Just because it is harder (and slower) to proceed on this basis does not, and should not, give anybody the right to forge ahead by himself.

I don't think anyone said he should be able to act without reference to anyone else.  

With that said, the bishops are to treat the Metropolitan as their head, as directed in the canons and the Statute, and I hope they will continue to remember this.

I had the blessing of being able to talk to the Metropolitan privately since the last AAC.  I think the OCA is blessed to have him for Metropolitan.  Eis polla eti Dhespota!
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 10:24:50 PM by Orual » Logged

He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

- C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces
f.k.a. Matron.a
username!
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ukrainian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Pennsylvaniadoxy
Posts: 4,748



« Reply #61 on: December 30, 2011, 10:44:07 PM »

I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect.I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Does anyone have statistics handy?  I read on another Forum that the Greeks (GOA) outnumber the 4 largest jurisdictions all together.
Don't know how accurate, but here is something.

The 2010 numbers are here:
http://www.hartfordinstitute.org/research/2010-USOrthodox-Census.pdf


This:

Quote
In terms of number of parishes, however, Orthodox Church in America has more local congregations than GOA does: 551 and 525 respectively.

And the OCA is the second largest jurisdiction with 40% of parishioners attending to regularly to the GOA's 23%.

And the Antiochians are the third largest and have similar attendance (37%) numbers as the OCA.

And in growth of parishes again the OCA and Antioachians the same at ~20% to the GOA's 5%.

Interesting numbers. And ones I like to see.





Man we're from almost the same area of the world.  You know as well as I do that many of the parishes in all jurisdictions are loosing more people to the Lord than we are baptizing.  The OCA has the most parishes in the mountains, and the future of many of them would only be saved by another coal boom or a mass immigration of Eastern Europeans.
Logged

Tags:
Pages: 1 2 All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.23 seconds with 89 queries.