Author Topic: Metropolitan Jonah  (Read 4953 times)

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Offline primuspilus

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Metropolitan Jonah
« on: November 01, 2011, 10:40:45 AM »
Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

PP
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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2011, 11:17:33 AM »
Going to give this a listen during lunch today and will post my thoughts afterwards.
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Offline primuspilus

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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2011, 12:22:43 PM »
Many prayers for all those in Seattle right now.

I am sure some of us have more than a few nearest and dearest there.
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2011, 03:00:05 PM »
Many prayers for all those in Seattle right now.

I am sure some of us have more than a few nearest and dearest there.
Indeed!
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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2011, 11:33:37 PM »
Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

I thought it was a wonderful speech.  Metropolitan Jonah really knows and loves his flock.  May God grant him many years.
He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2011, 10:46:52 AM »
Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

I thought it was a wonderful speech.  Metropolitan Jonah really knows and loves his flock.  May God grant him many years.
I liked it very much as well. Too bad the Q&A with the chancellor (s) was political dodge-speech.

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2011, 11:20:51 AM »
Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

I thought it was a wonderful speech.  Metropolitan Jonah really knows and loves his flock.  May God grant him many years.


Good message. He does need to learn some public speaking skills. It is was a little difficult to listen to. Sounded nearly like a cold read.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 11:21:55 AM by orthonorm »
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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2011, 12:06:27 PM »
Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

PP

Did you, as a non-Orthodox person (and I'm getting this from your profile) get paid to plug the OCA in such a manner?  How do you know if they will "control the Orthodox " in North America?  You have a lot to learn, and I hope you will follow your teaching if you become a catechumen.  Seriously, also, convert to learn the basics of the faith not the politics of the dioceses.  It will help you in the long run, getting too caught up in the politics will cloud your catechumenate.

Offline Orual

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2011, 12:08:28 PM »
Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

I thought it was a wonderful speech.  Metropolitan Jonah really knows and loves his flock.  May God grant him many years.
I liked it very much as well. Too bad the Q&A with the chancellor (s) was political dodge-speech.

PP

Yeah, and I noticed that the homosexuality issue came up again.  I am skeptical of the new chancellor's explanation of "pastoral" responses, since that is too often a euphemism for looking the other way and tolerating active sin.
He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2011, 12:09:25 PM »

Good message. He does need to learn some public speaking skills. It is was a little difficult to listen to. Sounded nearly like a cold read.

That was my feeling as well, after listening to his presentation. Perhaps he was nervous due to the content of the speech, especially since he needed to apologise to the assembly for the past events that affected the OCA under his leadership. That apology was needed and I am sure it was difficult.

His Eminence understood though that he needed to clear the air on some issues and rather than shirking his duty to do so he discussed the issues head on in workmanlike fashion. Good for him!

"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2011, 12:12:51 PM »
His Eminence understood though that he needed to clear the air on some issues and rather than shirking his duty to do so he discussed the issues head on in workmanlike fashion. Good for him!

*His Beatitude  :angel:
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Offline Orual

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2011, 12:14:47 PM »

Good message. He does need to learn some public speaking skills. It is was a little difficult to listen to. Sounded nearly like a cold read.

That was my feeling as well, after listening to his presentation. Perhaps he was nervous due to the content of the speech, especially since he needed to apologise to the assembly for the past events that affected the OCA under his leadership. That apology was needed and I am sure it was difficult.

His Eminence understood though that he needed to clear the air on some issues and rather than shirking his duty to do so he discussed the issues head on in workmanlike fashion. Good for him!

Fr Chris, please be aware that according to the customs of the OCA, their primate is called "His Beatitude".  I am confident no disrespect was intended by you as I know in the Greek tradition, Metropolitans are called "His Eminence".
He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2011, 12:16:40 PM »

Good message. He does need to learn some public speaking skills. It is was a little difficult to listen to. Sounded nearly like a cold read.

That was my feeling as well, after listening to his presentation. Perhaps he was nervous due to the content of the speech, especially since he needed to apologise to the assembly for the past events that affected the OCA under his leadership. That apology was needed and I am sure it was difficult.

His Eminence understood though that he needed to clear the air on some issues and rather than shirking his duty to do so he discussed the issues head on in workmanlike fashion. Good for him!



Quite likely.

I thought that same at the beginning. But I figured after five minutes into it, you calm down.

Agreed with your comments.

Just if he is going to be getting up soap boxes in this day and age, your rhetoric has to match your delivery. There was a bit of a rallying cry given, but wasn't much St. Crispin nor St. Crispinian in it.

Not that anyone who is close to him cares what I think.



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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2011, 12:17:05 PM »
Fr Chris, please be aware that according to the customs of the OCA, their primate is called "His Beatitude".  I am confident no disrespect was intended by you as I know in the Greek tradition, Metropolitans are called "His Eminence".

I think it was the other reason (14 vs 15). ;)
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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2011, 12:17:24 PM »
Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

PP

Did you, as a non-Orthodox person (and I'm getting this from your profile) get paid to plug the OCA in such a manner?  How do you know if they will "control the Orthodox " in North America?  You have a lot to learn, and I hope you will follow your teaching if you become a catechumen.  Seriously, also, convert to learn the basics of the faith not the politics of the dioceses.  It will help you in the long run, getting too caught up in the politics will cloud your catechumenate.

I found this to be an unnecessary attack on PP. :(

Offline Orual

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2011, 12:29:02 PM »

Good message. He does need to learn some public speaking skills. It is was a little difficult to listen to. Sounded nearly like a cold read.

That was my feeling as well, after listening to his presentation. Perhaps he was nervous due to the content of the speech, especially since he needed to apologise to the assembly for the past events that affected the OCA under his leadership. That apology was needed and I am sure it was difficult.

His Eminence understood though that he needed to clear the air on some issues and rather than shirking his duty to do so he discussed the issues head on in workmanlike fashion. Good for him!

Replying now to the substance of your post, Fr. Chris, I agree with your assessment.  This was likely a very emotional occasion for Metropolitan Jonah.  Normally he's a spontaneous and vibrant speaker, but reading from the paper probably helped him keep it together.    Still, I felt a lot of sincerity coming from him, and so the flawed delivery didn't detract too much from his message.  I am very happy he addressed a lot of the major issues in the OCA and the conflicts within the Holy Synod with grace and aplomb. 

Bishop Melchizedek is rather more painful to listen to.  Every other word is "uh".  Yikes.
He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

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Offline Orual

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2011, 12:36:24 PM »
Fr Chris, please be aware that according to the customs of the OCA, their primate is called "His Beatitude".  I am confident no disrespect was intended by you as I know in the Greek tradition, Metropolitans are called "His Eminence".

I think it was the other reason (14 vs 15). ;)

Actually, even if one comes from a church that does not regard the OCA as a legitimately autocephalous entity, I believe they do accept that the OCA, while remaining under Moscow, has been given the dignities of an autocephalous church by its mother church, including calling its first hierarch "His Beatitude".
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 12:37:44 PM by Orual »
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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2011, 12:39:21 PM »
Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

PP

Did you, as a non-Orthodox person (and I'm getting this from your profile) get paid to plug the OCA in such a manner?  How do you know if they will "control the Orthodox " in North America?  You have a lot to learn, and I hope you will follow your teaching if you become a catechumen.  Seriously, also, convert to learn the basics of the faith not the politics of the dioceses.  It will help you in the long run, getting too caught up in the politics will cloud your catechumenate.

I found this to be an unnecessary attack on PP. :(
more so, as PP is right.  The mere fact of the OCA's autocephaly already has a controllling aspect on the Orthodox Chruch here and elsewhere (the EP stopped bringing its Estonians like at Ravenna, when Moscow served notice that the OCA would be coming along to the next event).

I'll develop that, Lord willing, as people argue against it.  I already have a headache.
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2011, 03:19:37 PM »
Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

PP

Did you, as a non-Orthodox person (and I'm getting this from your profile) get paid to plug the OCA in such a manner?  How do you know if they will "control the Orthodox " in North America?  You have a lot to learn, and I hope you will follow your teaching if you become a catechumen.  Seriously, also, convert to learn the basics of the faith not the politics of the dioceses.  It will help you in the long run, getting too caught up in the politics will cloud your catechumenate.
I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect. No I did not get paid to plug anything. I am also capable of handling more than 1 subject at a time. This is not getting in the way of any teaching or anything. I am simply interested in a meeting that in the future MAY have repercussions for me. If you dont agree, thats totally cool. Im not mad about that.Just dont listen to it if you dont agree.

I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Quote
I found this to be an unnecessary attack on PP

I appreciate that, but I dont think it was made as an attack. Just an admonishment to stay on target. its cool.


PP
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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2011, 04:49:20 PM »

Good message. He does need to learn some public speaking skills. It is was a little difficult to listen to. Sounded nearly like a cold read.

That was my feeling as well, after listening to his presentation. Perhaps he was nervous due to the content of the speech, especially since he needed to apologise to the assembly for the past events that affected the OCA under his leadership. That apology was needed and I am sure it was difficult.

His Eminence understood though that he needed to clear the air on some issues and rather than shirking his duty to do so he discussed the issues head on in workmanlike fashion. Good for him!

Fr Chris, please be aware that according to the customs of the OCA, their primate is called "His Beatitude".  I am confident no disrespect was intended by you as I know in the Greek tradition, Metropolitans are called "His Eminence".

Please accept my humble apologies! The titles of respect given OCA hierarchs has always confused me, and the few times I have served at an OCA altar I have always had to write out the entire phrase and honorific just to keep it clear in my head.

And if anyone was offended by yet another example of my liturgical ineptitude, I ask for your forgiveness.
"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus

Offline Orual

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2011, 05:36:33 PM »

Good message. He does need to learn some public speaking skills. It is was a little difficult to listen to. Sounded nearly like a cold read.

That was my feeling as well, after listening to his presentation. Perhaps he was nervous due to the content of the speech, especially since he needed to apologise to the assembly for the past events that affected the OCA under his leadership. That apology was needed and I am sure it was difficult.

His Eminence understood though that he needed to clear the air on some issues and rather than shirking his duty to do so he discussed the issues head on in workmanlike fashion. Good for him!

Fr Chris, please be aware that according to the customs of the OCA, their primate is called "His Beatitude".  I am confident no disrespect was intended by you as I know in the Greek tradition, Metropolitans are called "His Eminence".

Please accept my humble apologies! The titles of respect given OCA hierarchs has always confused me, and the few times I have served at an OCA altar I have always had to write out the entire phrase and honorific just to keep it clear in my head.

And if anyone was offended by yet another example of my liturgical ineptitude, I ask for your forgiveness.

No problem, Fr Chris, as I said, I saw it as a simple mistake and not an intentional slight.  The titles "Archbishop" and "Metropolitan" are reversed between the Greek tradition and that of others, and sometimes primates are called Archbishop and sometimes they're called Metropolitan, and it can all be quite confusing.

The OCA's custom is to call a bishop "His Grace" and an archbishop "His Eminence", and I believe those are the same as used in the Greek tradition.  Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, Romania, Cyprus, Poland, and the Czech Lands and Slovakia all call their primates "His Beatitude" as well.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 05:39:15 PM by Orual »
He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2011, 06:05:53 PM »
Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

I thought it was a wonderful speech.  Metropolitan Jonah really knows and loves his flock.  May God grant him many years.
I liked it very much as well. Too bad the Q&A with the chancellor (s) was political dodge-speech.

PP

Yeah, and I noticed that the homosexuality issue came up again.  I am skeptical of the new chancellor's explanation of "pastoral" responses, since that is too often a euphemism for looking the other way and tolerating active sin.
Yeah, that would be the only "active sin" they look the other way at. Oh, gawd ::)

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2011, 06:53:38 AM »
"Eis pola eti, Despota." Excellent keynote address for a vision for the immediate future of the OCA.   What an example of Christian humility this prelate exudes!  Humility is a Christian characteristic that is not in evidence among too many of our hierarchs today. Let's keep in mind the disfunctionality of the administrative environment he inherited.  His detractors can say what they may, but my gut reaction to his primacial ministry is that there is something very special about this hierarch, something that is not clear today, but given his relative youth and the shortness of his primacial tenure so far, will ultimately benefit the OCA and our Holy Orthodoxy in North America.
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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2011, 09:30:08 AM »
"Eis pola eti, Despota." Excellent keynote address for a vision for the immediate future of the OCA.   What an example of Christian humility this prelate exudes!  Humility is a Christian characteristic that is not in evidence among too many of our hierarchs today. Let's keep in mind the disfunctionality of the administrative environment he inherited.  His detractors can say what they may, but my gut reaction to his primacial ministry is that there is something very special about this hierarch, something that is not clear today, but given his relative youth and the shortness of his primacial tenure so far, will ultimately benefit the OCA and our Holy Orthodoxy in North America.
I gotta say, alot of folks give Met. Jonah a lot of grief that I think is totally unwarranted. He seems to really want to make the OCA respectable and show the rest of Orthodoxy that it can be the one Orthodox Church of America.

From what I heard from the other folks (the chancellor and the past chancellor mostly) he has a long way to go. Those two sounded like politicians with the way they effectively dodged giving a straight answer.

Between the sexual stuff and the financial stuff and other things that we may not even be aware of, I think that they have the right man for the job. I respect him greatly from what I've heard/read.

The only folks really hitting hi hard appears to me, to be the ones that were in the center of all this mess.
PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2011, 01:51:06 PM »
I'm listening right now and his voice does sound like he is very nervous.  I can't imagine the weights that His Beatitude carries due to his position and, considering what has happened to him in recent months, it's not surprising as he is speaking to a lot of people who probably want him gone.

Still, I like what I am hearing and I'm happy that he has begun on such an optimistic note.
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2011, 01:54:47 PM »
I'm listening right now and his voice does sound like he is very nervous.  I can't imagine the weights that His Beatitude carries due to his position and, considering what has happened to him in recent months, it's not surprising as he is speaking to a lot of people who probably want him gone.

Still, I like what I am hearing and I'm happy that he has begun on such an optimistic note.
Yeah I'd be nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs if I were in his shoes.

The debate about the lowering of the $105 fee to $50 (The New York Plan I believe) is quite lively too. Just finished listening and wow, pretty heated.

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2011, 02:05:32 PM »
I'm listening right now and his voice does sound like he is very nervous.
That's his normal speaking/lecture voice, from my personal experience.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
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Offline bogdan

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2011, 02:11:06 PM »
I'm listening right now and his voice does sound like he is very nervous.
That's his normal speaking/lecture voice, from my personal experience.

Yeah, he did not seem to be speaking any differently from the other times I've heard him speak. He didn't seem nervous or ill-prepared to me.

Many years to Metr. Jonah for standing firm.

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2011, 02:42:13 PM »
I'm listening right now and his voice does sound like he is very nervous.
That's his normal speaking/lecture voice, from my personal experience.

Same here.  Good on him for being honest and humble.
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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2011, 03:16:28 PM »
The more I read from the folks that dont like him, the better I do :)

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline Cognomen

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2011, 03:22:40 PM »
The more I read from the folks that dont like him, the better I do :)

Same here (2nd post in a row, in one thread, with that response.  Man, am I an original and substantive contributor!).
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2011, 03:34:28 PM »
The more I read from the folks that dont like him, the better I do :)

Same here (2nd post in a row, in one thread, with that response.  Man, am I an original and substantive contributor!).
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2011, 04:23:05 PM »
Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

PP

Did you, as a non-Orthodox person (and I'm getting this from your profile) get paid to plug the OCA in such a manner?  How do you know if they will "control the Orthodox " in North America?  You have a lot to learn, and I hope you will follow your teaching if you become a catechumen.  Seriously, also, convert to learn the basics of the faith not the politics of the dioceses.  It will help you in the long run, getting too caught up in the politics will cloud your catechumenate.
I did not say that the OCA would "control the Orthodox" I said they will have a controlling aspect. No I did not get paid to plug anything. I am also capable of handling more than 1 subject at a time. This is not getting in the way of any teaching or anything. I am simply interested in a meeting that in the future MAY have repercussions for me. If you dont agree, thats totally cool. Im not mad about that.Just dont listen to it if you dont agree.

I for one believe that the OCA will have an impact here in the USA (and will eventually be recognized by the EP and everyone else) that is greater than the influence it has now. Its just a matter of time.

Quote
I found this to be an unnecessary attack on PP

I appreciate that, but I dont think it was made as an attack. Just an admonishment to stay on target. its cool.


PP
Part of being Orthodox is being humble, and listening when people point things out.  What happens at the bishops level usually doesn't have a bearing on those inthe pew.  The fullness of the Faith is completed in the altar on Sunday morning not at any Sobor or through  any diocese.  Therefore, it doesn't really matter who is the bishop, who said what at the diocese level, all that is in focus os the Liturgy.

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2011, 04:24:44 PM »
Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

PP

Did you, as a non-Orthodox person (and I'm getting this from your profile) get paid to plug the OCA in such a manner?  How do you know if they will "control the Orthodox " in North America?  You have a lot to learn, and I hope you will follow your teaching if you become a catechumen.  Seriously, also, convert to learn the basics of the faith not the politics of the dioceses.  It will help you in the long run, getting too caught up in the politics will cloud your catechumenate.

I found this to be an unnecessary attack on PP. :(

IIt was guidance not an attack.  People these days don't want guidance, they want to go it alone and if anyone offers advice and it doesn't appeal to the answer they want then the person offering the advice is seen as someone attacking them.

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2011, 04:35:08 PM »
Although Im not in the OCA, I do like to keep up with it since I think eventually it will have a controlling aspect in the Orthodox Church here. So I took a listen to his opening address in Seattle and I was very impressed with what he had to say.

He gave a very polite yet stern tongue-lashing about supporting the clergy (the food stamp comment saddened me; I had no idea) and it seems to me, he took a strong stance concerning the homosexuality debate that is evidently a pretty big deal in the OCA. Anyone else give it a listen?

Thoughts?

PP

Did you, as a non-Orthodox person (and I'm getting this from your profile) get paid to plug the OCA in such a manner?  How do you know if they will "control the Orthodox " in North America?  You have a lot to learn, and I hope you will follow your teaching if you become a catechumen.  Seriously, also, convert to learn the basics of the faith not the politics of the dioceses.  It will help you in the long run, getting too caught up in the politics will cloud your catechumenate.

I found this to be an unnecessary attack on PP. :(

IIt was guidance not an attack.  People these days don't want guidance, they want to go it alone and if anyone offers advice and it doesn't appeal to the answer they want then the person offering the advice is seen as someone attacking them.
As I said, I didnt take your comments as an attack, just an admonishment to

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2011, 04:42:56 PM »
Hey, the church is a family.  We are all one in Christ.  So anything me or any other Orthodox Christian might say as guidance is only done with agape.  Haha, I got to use the word agape in a sentence!  I've seen a lot of people come into the church and get so mixed up because they balance faith and politics and usually the politics tip the scales and they become sullen and forlorn.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2011, 05:07:07 PM »
The more I read from the folks that dont like him, the better I do :)

PP

Who are you reading that doesn't "like" him? I am sure if you are referring to people within this thread or without.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 05:08:43 PM by orthonorm »
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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2011, 06:56:12 PM »
The only thing that I didn't like is when he basically "called out" the other hierarchs & said publically that they didn't like him & didn't like the way he did things, etc. etc.  Airing out your dirty laundry is one thing, but this much is not a good thing (IMO).  I think some things are better left behind closed doors.  Say it to their face, not to other people.  It could seem to be attention getting, and not serve its purpose.  If you are truly repentant, then let your repentance be enough.  You don't have to tell everyone about it. 

other than that, it was fairly good. 
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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #39 on: November 03, 2011, 10:21:36 PM »
The only thing that I didn't like is when he basically "called out" the other hierarchs & said publically that they didn't like him & didn't like the way he did things, etc. etc.  Airing out your dirty laundry is one thing, but this much is not a good thing (IMO).  I think some things are better left behind closed doors.  Say it to their face, not to other people. 
You don't think he and they have already discussed this behind closed doors?
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline serb1389

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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2011, 01:46:05 AM »
Maybe they have.  If they have, then there's even more reason to now air your dirty laundry in front of everyone.  handle it like adults & move on.  The church no longer does public confessions.  I just think it's very unprofessional. 
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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2011, 02:45:35 AM »
The more I read from the folks that dont like him, the better I do :)
--+
PP
 HB Metropolitan Jonah's approach to the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR is about rapproachment and relationship and has mooted closer fraternal ties with the Russian Church as autonomous, rather than autocephalous, clearly a Cold War Soviet vestige that has not united US Orthodoxy.  In raising this option he has shown vision and leadership, just as he has re the great moral debates.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 02:47:29 AM by SubdeaconDavid »
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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2011, 04:09:54 AM »
The more I read from the folks that dont like him, the better I do :)
--+
PP
  HB Metropolitan Jonah's approach to the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR is about rapproachment and relationship and has mooted closer fraternal ties with the Russian Church as autonomous, rather than autocephalous,

You'd like to.
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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2011, 05:48:02 AM »
The more I read from the folks that dont like him, the better I do :)
--+
PP
  HB Metropolitan Jonah's approach to the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR is about rapproachment and relationship and has mooted closer fraternal ties with the Russian Church as autonomous, rather than autocephalous,

You'd like to.
Like to?  Like to see the North American Metropolia reunited with ROCOR and Moscow?  Of course I would.  The Metropolia was as much a part of the Russian Church in North America as was and is ROCOR and the Patriarchal parishes.  Both ROCOR and the MP in North America have plenty of convert priests, plenty of English or bi-language parishes and missions, plenty of converts. All of them commemorate HH Patriarch Kyrill and there is plenty of room to accommodate the OCA with fraternal love, respect and pastoral care.

 The fit with the OCA is excellent in the main, especially with the Diocese of Alaska, and His Beatitude Metropolitan Jonah's more traditional monasteries and parishes.  No I am not talking about Russifying the English language parishes of the OCA - because the Russian Orthodox Church in her wisdom has embraced all along liturgy in the vernacular.
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Re: Metropolitan Jonah
« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2011, 09:12:10 AM »
The more I read from the folks that dont like him, the better I do :)
--+
PP
  HB Metropolitan Jonah's approach to the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR is about rapproachment and relationship and has mooted closer fraternal ties with the Russian Church as autonomous, rather than autocephalous,

You'd like to.
Like to?  Like to see the North American Metropolia reunited with ROCOR and Moscow?
The OCA was reunited to Moscow by the Tomos of Autocephaly.

Of course I would.  The Metropolia was
past tense
as much a part of the Russian Church in North America as was and is ROCOR and the Patriarchal parishes.  Both ROCOR and the MP in North America have plenty of convert priests, plenty of English or bi-language parishes and missions, plenty of converts. All of them commemorate HH Patriarch Kyrill

the MP also commemorate Met. Jonah.
and there is plenty of room to accommodate the OCA with fraternal love, respect and pastoral care.
Other than running interference on the Pan-Orthodox/international level, the Church of Moscow is in no position to care for the OCA.  This is not the days of struggling immigrants and natives left behind, dependent on the inexhaustible largesse of the Czar.  Moscow has plenty of work for it in Russia.

The fit with the OCA is excellent in the main, especially with the Diocese of Alaska, and His Beatitude Metropolitan Jonah's more traditional monasteries and parishes.  No I am not talking about Russifying the English language parishes of the OCA - because the Russian Orthodox Church in her wisdom has embraced all along liturgy in the vernacular.
there is more to it than the language issue.  The history of A.C.R.O.D. shows that.  The fit of ROCOR and ACROD in the OCA as Ethnic dioceses, Russian and Carpatho-Russian, would be excellent, as it would leave leave those orientations to persue them, and leave others not have to choose between the two.
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