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Last night at a gathering, Marcus Borg said (twice), “Jesus trumps the Bible.”This is an extraordinarily irresponsible thing for a scholar and leader in the church to say. It can’t be said often enough: we have no access to knowledge of Jesus except through the Bible and its interpretation. There is no record of him outside the Bible until years after his death. The only way to understanding who he was is through the witness of the New Testament apostles. Therefore to suggest that he “trumps the Bible” is to suggest that we can cut loose from the Scriptures and construct a Jesus according to the perspectives of our own time. It has been shown over and over again that attempts to construct a “historical Jesus” or “real Jesus” apart from the faith-based witness of Scripture end in failure because such attempts are grounded, not in the text, but in the bias of those who undertake them.
The Revelation to man is Christ; the Scriptures bear witness to that revelation. Is it the only source for this witness? Of course not, but without the Scriptures and Holy Tradition, the only Jesus you will "know" is one of your own making.
Quote from: scamandrius on October 31, 2011, 11:17:36 AMThe Revelation to man is Christ; the Scriptures bear witness to that revelation. Is it the only source for this witness? Of course not, but without the Scriptures and Holy Tradition, the only Jesus you will "know" is one of your own making.I seem to remember a respected Orthodox saying that, if all the Scriptures were lost, they could be re-created by means of Tradition, or something to that effect.
isn't it a bit 'false' to say that "we have no knowledge of Jesus except through the Bible"?
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.
Quote from: Jetavan on October 31, 2011, 09:16:55 AMisn't it a bit 'false' to say that "we have no knowledge of Jesus except through the Bible"?We also have the history channel.
Quote from: Melodist on October 31, 2011, 01:38:45 PMQuote from: Jetavan on October 31, 2011, 09:16:55 AMisn't it a bit 'false' to say that "we have no knowledge of Jesus except through the Bible"?We also have the history channel. You mean the alien and zombie invasion channel?
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
Quote from: Ortho_cat on October 31, 2011, 01:52:00 PMQuote from: Melodist on October 31, 2011, 01:38:45 PMQuote from: Jetavan on October 31, 2011, 09:16:55 AMisn't it a bit 'false' to say that "we have no knowledge of Jesus except through the Bible"?We also have the history channel. You mean the alien and zombie invasion channel?Apparently, the Pharisees were zombies.
Quote from: Ortho_cat on October 31, 2011, 01:52:00 PMQuote from: Melodist on October 31, 2011, 01:38:45 PMQuote from: Jetavan on October 31, 2011, 09:16:55 AMisn't it a bit 'false' to say that "we have no knowledge of Jesus except through the Bible"?We also have the history channel. You mean the alien and zombie invasion channel?You say that like it's a bad thing.
Quote from: biro on October 31, 2011, 08:49:01 PMQuote from: Ortho_cat on October 31, 2011, 01:52:00 PMQuote from: Melodist on October 31, 2011, 01:38:45 PMQuote from: Jetavan on October 31, 2011, 09:16:55 AMisn't it a bit 'false' to say that "we have no knowledge of Jesus except through the Bible"?We also have the history channel. You mean the alien and zombie invasion channel?You say that like it's a bad thing. In truth, i have a soft spot for both
^ That's my favorite meme! LOL. Brilliant logic. Can you believe, my husband BOUGHT one of Erich Von Daniken's books? He doesn't believe in it but he loves reading about this strange stuff anyway. Oy vey!
